₦airaland Forum

KingEbukasBlog:
luvmijeje

Not everybody has freewill . Some people like you mentioned and more even now are predestined to do certain things . That's what God's sovereignty is about . I don't think any further arguments are necessary .

Jeremiah 29:11 says

11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the Lord, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope.

We are all created beautifully. We all created to fulfill a purpose. We are all to called to answer a call.

But the right to fulfill God's Purpose is still in your hands.

E.g Adam and Eve, Samson, Saul.

Bros, do you know that what could have derail God's Purpose in Joseph's life was if had he slept with his Master's wife.

Do you know what could have defeated Jesus's purpose was was only if he has refuses to died on that cross.

Do you know most people will not fulfill God's Purpose in their due to sin of disobedience. Matt 22:14 says

14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

onyenze123:
Which one is "worldly" wisdom again?

Christians folks and their bogus claims

Check out my signature.

malvisguy212:
God pre-determined, not the identity of the saved, but the character of the saved. if predestined to be save, this mean the save need not to be worry of the devil. so the question is if predestined, why beware ? 1 peter 5:8

Sefini. Why are we being told to resist the devil if we are predestined?

anotherydz:
OK.
I'll bet 90% of guys seeing this novel will back off.

Oga, if I still put it in pdf 89.9% will still back off. You'll the only addition.

Someone said i should cross-reference their statements with the Bible? That was also written by ‘men of God’. How do i know when they are not making mistakes? Since we know a couple of them actually did make mistakes?

If you question the Bible then there's no solution to your case.

It simply means you don't believe in God.

Smh. Is this not cause by joblessness?

Ex-pastor. Ex-champion.

My Father, anything that will make me to go back to the world, please take it away from me.
*singing *

I'll never never go back to the world.

It's not errors. It's decipher because of you all that wants to apply worldly wisdom to God's words

anotherydz:
convert this epistle to pdf and I will download and read comfortably

Uncle this epistle is not meant for you.

This is in response to An2elect2's thread titled Freewillers Why Are Your Prayers Not Consistent With What You Believe! And below is the link to the thread :
https://www.nairaland.com/3764761/freewillers-why-prayers-not-consistent#55965342

So let's shoot.

So luvmijeje thinks even though she needs a saviour, she doesn't think she is all that bad. She thinks she has some will-power to choose Jesus or to reject him, that means she thinks she isn't really spiritually dead (since she can still choose spiritual things) but just maybe weak or sick. Lol

Honestly, I don't understand what spirituality got to do with lack of choice. 1st cor 2:14 says
14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Emphasis on received. The Holy Spirit is given to those who ask and not given to whom God pleases. Luke 11:13 says
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your heavenly Father give the holy Spirit to them that ask Him?”

Emphasis on them that ask Him. Madame, the Holy Spirit is given to all who can ask in the name of his son. And not to those he wills.

. In him we were also chosen having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will.
Ephesians 1:3-6,11.

So let's quote Eph 1:5 &11

5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,

But for you to be qualified as a son Jesus himself said in Rev 21:7 says
"He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.
Those that are predestined are the those who serve God. Are those who serve him to the end. For more emphasis John 1:12 says
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
The sons are the people who believed and received him. You have the right to receive or reject him. There's nothing like I was predestined to received God. You must be willing to receive him.

. Ephesians 2:4-10

Now, it's clear that we are born dead in sins and trespasses. What's even clearer? that God who is rich in mercy is the one that raises dead people up because of His great love and even has plans for them which He has prepared before the world began.

And that's right, SALVATION IS NOT BY FREE WILL BUT BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH. ITS A GIFT, SO NO ONE BOASTS like freewillers love to do. Yeah, "freewill" makes you feel good about yourself. While Grace makes you feel good about God.

Okayyyyy. So let's quote Ephesians 2:5-6.
5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

Grace doesn't automatically qualify you to be in heaven. What do I mean? Romans 6:1-2 says
6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

After you have received Grace, if you continue in sin you won't make heaven whether you're predestined or not. Phil 2:12 says
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Madame, if you're predestined, the Bible won't tell us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified Romans 8:28-30.

Who are those that loves God. John 14:21 says,
Jesus said.
21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”
If you're not obedience to him, you can't be predestined.

The people who loves God are those who keep his commandments. The people who are predestined are people who are willing and ready to follow him.

Then wisdom will ask, how can you who are accustomed to doing evil, do something as good, as holy as loving God? And in this case as a whole, choosing God?

Can an Ethiopian change his skin or a leopard its spots? Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil. Jeremiah 13:23

The same book of Jeremiah that you quoted 13:10 says
10 This evil people, that refuse to hear my words, that walk in the stubbornness of their heart, and are gone after other gods to serve them, and to worship them, shall even be as this girdle, which is profitable for nothing.

If God have predestined why will God send 100s of prophets to warn them from their evil ways. 2nd kings 17:13 says
13 Yet Jehovah testified unto Israel, and unto Judah, by every prophet, and every seer, saying, Turn ye from your evil ways, and keep my commandments and my statutes, according to all the law which I commanded your fathers, and which I sent to you by my servants the prophets.

Why's God pleading with them if he has predestined them to destruction?

We love because he first loved us.
1John 4:19

...We love because He loved us first, We choose because He chose us first? No? Lol

John 3:16 says

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Madame, emphasis on God love the world. Did God says selected people? Did God says choosen people? God love the whole world.

Not only that, but Rebekah's children had one and the same father, our father Isaac. Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad - in order that God's purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls - she was told "The older will serve the younger". 13 Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated".

But can you quote a scripture where the older one serve the younger one. Stop applying worldly wisdom to God's words.
Gen 36:6-7 says
6 And Esau took his wives, and his sons, and his daughters, and all the souls of his house, and his cattle, and all his beasts, and all his possessions, which he had gathered in the land of Canaan; and went into a land away from his brother Jacob. 7 For their substance was too great for them to dwell together; and the land of their sojournings could not bear them because of their cattle. 8 And Esau dwelt in mount Seir: Esau is Edom.
As you can see Esau was a great man on his own right. That prophecy wasn't about individuals. It was talking about Nations.

Let's continue with Romans to be clear ...
It does not therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed on all the earth." [ Exodus 9:16 ] 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

Gen 15:13- 14 says
13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be sojourners in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years; 14 and also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
Once again, this is not an individual prophecy. It was talking of an event in the life of nation. At this period, the Egyptians didn't know who God was talkless of their King. God's negative prophecy works only on disobedience children. What do I mean? Ezekiel 9:4 God commanded his angels before of Isreal and Judah were led into captivity .
4 And Jehovah said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry over all the abominations that are done in the midst thereof.

God) has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity.
2 Timothy 1:9

Honestly if I was a Freewiller I'd be sad that my "free will" isn't even considered here or I'll do what others would do "jump and pass". And declare it a mystery which has not been revealed eventhough it's clearly made open in my Bible.

This question again. So who are the people God saved?

John 3:16 again says

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Emphasis on whosoever believeth in Him shouldn't perish. Stop applying worldly wisdom to God's words.

And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Acts 13:48

"As many as exercised their free wills rightly believed" This should have been instead of God's ordained will. And the freewillers will jump for joy! Glorious "free will!" "Damn grace and election!!"

And who are the people that are ordained? Jesus himself explained in John 15:14-16
14 Ye are my friends, if ye do the things which I command you. 15 No longer do I call you [c]servants; for the [d]servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I heard from my Father I have made known unto you. 16 Ye did not choose me, but I chose you, and appointed you, that ye should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should abide: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Those who choose to be obedience to God are the ordained. They are the appointed.

11. The work of Satan [...] in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness. 13 But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.2nd thess 2:12-13

Please stop re-reading Bible upside down. Let's read verse 12 together
12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Can you see what you quoted. Who have not believed. Who have disbelief. Meaning they have the right to believe or disbelief.

An2elect2, I want to quickly rush to do a chore but I promise when I log in back I'm responding to you first and hopefully open a rebuttal thread on it.

An2elect2:
Lol How would you do that?

[i] I'll not only quote scriptures that show you have no free will, I will also quote the ones that say you are dead in sins and trespasses and the only person that can bring you from death to life is your God.

Hmmmmm.... ... I'll really love that. I just can't wait. Because of you I'm not logging out.

FreshGreen

This is what the LORD commands concerning the daughters of Zelophehad, saying, ‘Let them marry whom they think best, but they may marry only within the family of their father’s tribe.’” Numbers 36:6

OP, Let's try to be reading our Bible very well before we push it out to the Public. Numbers 27:2-7 explain why God gave that decision.

2 And they stood before Moses, before Eleazar the priest, and before the leaders and all the congregation, by the doorway of the tabernacle of meeting, saying: 3 “Our father died in the wilderness; but he was not in the company of those who gathered together against the Lord, in company with Korah, but he died in his own sin; and he had no sons. 4 Why should the name of our father be removed from among his family because he had no son? Give us a possession among our father’s brothers.”

5 So Moses brought their case before the Lord.

6 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying: 7 “The daughters of Zelophehad speak what is right; you shall surely give them a possession of inheritance among their father’s brothers, and cause the inheritance of their father to pass to them. 8 And you shall speak to the children of Israel, saying: ‘If a man dies and has no son, then you shall cause his inheritance to pass to his daughter.

Hmmm... applying worldly wisdom to God's words. The answer to your question is in John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

CANTICLES:
" I take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you today that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the curse, and you must Choose life so that you may live, you and your descendants " . Deuteronomy 30:19 . this clearly emphasize Choice which is what freewill is about.



" O Hearer of prayer, to you ALL flesh will come " Psalm 65:2 clearly Anyone can approach God in prayer , isnt it ?

God bless you.

I've been seeing your posts and I've been ignoring it because I can see that you're a fellow believer but it's high time I put this to a stop.

Please quote scriptural verses that says we don't have free will and please don't quote people. Quote the Bible.

This is a terrible thread. The OP based the whole long article on the following:

Just imagine you and members of your family were having dinner one evening and the house suddenly collapsed, killing everyone but yourself. If you make it out alive and realize that everyone was dead, what would be your immediate response? Would you be transfixed in complete numbing agony as a result of the lives of your family members that has been lost, or would you raise your hands in the air to glorify God? Would you go to a church the next sunday with gifts for the pastor, to give a testimony celebrating your miraculous escape from greedy hands of death?
There's no group or organization who has visited the sick, the imprisoned, the homeless, the orphanage home as Christians.

Because of testimonies you cast an aspersions on Christians. God you're indeed patient.

Image123:
This is over flogged. The point though is that Jesus should be the author and finisher of your faith. Of all the 1001 things Elisha did, you are yet to reproduce or copy one, so i wonder if you want to copy this one or what. Follow Jesus, you will not miss it that way.

Don't mind them. It's a warning to you all. If una like may una go deh mistakenly curse talkless of harm the one God has called.

Senseless thread.

Omobritico, if you have read psalm 103,you would have gotten the message he was passing to you. Psalm 103:7-10 says

He made known His ways to omobritico,
His acts to the children of Israel.
8 The Lord is merciful and gracious,
Slow to anger, and abounding in mercy.
9 He will not always strive with us,
Nor will He keep His anger forever.
10 He has not dealt with us according to our sins,
Nor punished us according to our iniquities.

Bros, God is telling you despite your unfaithfulness, he has been faithful. Despite not be worthy, he has blessed you with his gift. Despite, your disobedient he is still waiting for you to come back to him.

But he's not going to wait forever for you. If you don't serve him, he will raise up a stone to replace you. That's the worst decision God can ever take over a man.

everyone would agree with me that the brain is the engine of thought, decision and action. If we all have different brains, that are wired differently, it means that our decision making processes carry out their functions differently. So, if A, B and C have different brains and different cognitive wirings, and each are asked to make a decision on a particular subject, it follows that there would be a prominent variance in the way A, B, and C would make this decision. Meaning that one of the three is more likely to make the best decision, and one of the three is more likely to make the worst decision. So bearing in mind that each of these individuals didn't choose their brains, do they bear full or any responsibility at all for making the good or bad decision?

Uncle Stewie101, you're making a mountain out of molehill. For you to obey or disobey God doesn't require an high IQ. All what you have to obey is written down. You don't need to do investigation. It's written in black and white.

You people should stop giving people unnecessary headache with your write up.

Martinez19:
chai, don't let testimonies and miracles on church pamphlet and the ones you hear fool you, most are staged miracles to fool the sheeples. If there is healing in the local church of deeper life as you said, why did Kumuyi's wife die of cancer? Where was the healing? Did you not observe that? If you did, why don't you ask questions? At least, we deserve an answer.

Did Oyedepo not send his wife for treatment abroad? Where was faith? Why spend money on treatment if you could heal by faith? Did you not observe? Let me tell you something woman, if can't observe something an intelligent mind should, I am sorry for you. Don't be a sheeple. You still have not told me where you are worshipping at?

So the one I witnessed of my mum was staged? If indeed, you have once been a Christian I'll leave you with this verse Matt 15:24

If I had not done among them the works which no other man did, they would not have had sin; but now they have both seen and hated both Me and My Father.


Atheist that has not step foot in the church is still better than you. Please repent.

Martinez19:
mfm, redeem christian church of God, deeper life, harvesters, diving chosen vine ministries, christ harmony church, real gospels believers ministry( this was a bit okay but the pastor started womanising and his great ministry folded up), bible believers fellowship e.t.c

I have been around mehn Now tell me the name of your church?

In redeemed Christian Church where I was baptized, you didn't see healings in the local church. Which means you've never gone to their monthly camp?

In Deeper life Church, where I was born into, you've not heard of testimonies of healings in the local church. Which means you've never been to christmas or Easter retreat.
Bros, you are lying. If the people around you are faking healing, it doesn't mean millions of others are faking it.

You are lying against God and that's the most dangerous thing to do.

Martinez19:
recently, I have stopped attending church. I have been to many churches in my life. It's all virtually the same thing. What is the name of your church?

Name the churches you have been to?

otemanuduno:
Okay, if you don't know, you have to know:

Eusebius, a human being like you, is the one who wrote 75% of the things you call gospel today.

The jesus you worship isn't a real entity, but Eusebius wrote a story about him, using the character of a real Zeusus Krista to write his story. Zeusus Krista was a deciever far back millions of years ago. Eusebius then wrote a story based on that deciever, and called the hero of that story jesus. Therefore anything you are quoting from Matthew to John are 75% the works of Eusebius, therefore you can't expect me to take a fiction serious.

So I've been wasting my time. I've marked your name.

Martinez19:
I am a christian and I am not speaking from an atheistic point of view but from my experience in the pentecostal circle. God is my witness.

What's the name of your church?

otemanuduno:
You are quoting for me from the book of Eusebius the deceiver and you want me to take you serious? So when did trying to prove the superiority of your god over another god become temptation? Gwana was shamed hands down, same way we have many Nairalander here shamed after challenging the irreligious and brain users like myself to a life-threatening duel. They ended up depressed, questioning their gods or deleting their nairaland accounts or even being chased about as thieves... E.G SAMUEL Ekweme(4evergod), Frankmishael, Muafrika2 the curser and G***y.

It's like I'm speaking to a wall. I don't understand your ranting.

Martinez19:
considering the content of the write up, the title is valid. Let me ask, are my observations not correct? Can't you relate?

It's entirely wrong. Go to church una no go.

For my church, in normal service people testify of God's healing talkless of special healing programme.

Please you all should go to church and stop your lies against the church.

By the voice of the Holy Spirit, every strange and demonic voice discouraging people from getting saved is silenced in Jesus name.
By the Blood of the Lamb, the power of sin is destroyed on every soul wallowing in one sin or the other in Jesus name.
I pray every one struggling with sin will have a definite encounter with the power of the Holy Spirit and be set free for ever in Jesus name.

Amen oooo.

otemanuduno:
This is off point. Elijah gathered the prophets of Baal and suggested that they should test which god is more powerful. Why are you quoting what is not relevant to the topic? Or you are trying to say that it was god who told Elijah to perform d errand of killing d prophets of baal If Yahweh sends you to kill someone, will you do it?

It's not off point, it's very critical. Haven't you heard that shall not tempt the lord your God.

So why can't God forgive us rather that sent his son. Because God is not a man that should lie or the son of a man that should confess. After the disobedience of Adam and Eve this was the curse laid on the serpent. In Gen 3: 15


And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel

Coincidentally this is the first prophecy about christ. Let me break it down. Gen 1:28 says

28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”
Man cede is dominion of the earth to the serpent when he disobeyed God. But because he has laid a curse that the seed of the man will bruise his head he has to send his son in form of a man to return that dominion back to man. Which our Lord Jesus Christ has done. Revelation 1:18 says

I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Remember when Adam ate that fruit, he died. But My lord Jesus died that whosoever believeth in Him will not die again.

Alexbrain:
I hv tried believe me, even gone to Bible school, read everything I came across but everything just doesn't seem to fit in, so many loopholes.

You seem sincere, so let me respond to your answer. Why did he create Devil if he knows he will commit a sin and I responded that the same question applied to Adam and Eve.

When I ask God about Adam And Even, he took me to Gen 1: 15-16

15 Then the Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

God gave Adam an instruction and he told us him the penalty and the reward of disobedience and obedience. Meaning He gave man a will to chose life or death. God gave man a will to determine his destiny.

I will tell you a story of a man who change God's prophecy for his life. 2nd king 20:1

20 In those days Hezekiah became ill and was at the point of death. The prophet Isaiah son of Amoz went to him and said, “This is what the Lord says: Put your house in order, because you are going to die; you will not recover.”
He could have said God said it there's nothing I can do but he refuses to accept that's God's final judgement 2nd king 20:2-3 says

2 Hezekiah turned his face to the wall and prayed to the Lord, 3 “Remember, Lord, how I have walked before you faithfully and with wholehearted devotion and have done what is good in your eyes.” And Hezekiah wept bitterly.
My point is that because God knows doesn't mean the power to change your destiny is not in your hand.

To your next question why did he send his son when he could have easily forgiven us.