₦airaland Forum

[quote author=Maria-G]hmmmm, we clearly do not share same beleif....am not going down that road with you. Now back to the girl in my post, what do you think is the reason behind ner actions?[/quote]Frustration?

Post traumatic stress disorder? Simple medical diagnosis



Why must we put religion into everything even where it is not mean to be- personal health?

Deep Sight: Your Orokpo turns up blank because you dont know what Orokpo is or it does not exist.

The word God, may turn up blank for you, but that is you: for same reasons as Orokpo.

Rest assured that it does not turn up blank for me, and for billions of others.

Some think of a Daddy in the Sky. For me, it turns up a white unwavering light.

Depending on who tells me to think about god or what type of god.


Think of god as a force = white light of energy

Think of yaweh = old pervert drunk with blood and foreskin

Think of yaweh (when logicboy was a christian) = old man with the worlds in his hand



all these thoughts have been implanted as false memories from tvs and the lies of tithe preaching charlatans

[quote author=Maria-G]so whats the real thing?[/quote]Human beings are the real thing.



https://www.greatplay.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/GoodWithoutGod.jpeg

Deep Sight: That is not a problem. In the same way, people say that they see God, or feel God, or hear God.

You cannot any more disprove that than they can dispove the existence of your thoughts.

Thus your definition of things that exist was a wrong definition.

Epic fail. Thoughts come from memories. Memories are recorded events.


Thought exercise
-Think of a monster. You thought of a monster that you have seen in a movie or picture
-Think of an umbrella. You thought of either a generic umbrella or one you have seen before.
-Think of orokpo. Blank, no thoughts. You dont know what Orokpo is.


God is just a false memory or hallucination.

[quote author=Maria-G]what do you say about deaths, accidents, buisness collapse, etc? Or have you forgotten Job in the bible?[/quote]Havent you met an atheist before? You have stated one reason why we dont believe in god.



Imagine killing Job's children just to satisfy a bet with Satan!!!

Hoever, the bible is a fairytale. The old testament is a bloody and macabre fairytale

Deep Sight: It is beyond any human being in this world to perceive your thoughts with his 5 physical senses, is it not?Not even a brain scan can see your thoughts, do you deny this?

As such can we assert that your thoughts do not exist and are not relevant?

I can see my thoughts.


You can see yours.


They exist

Deep Sight: There you are. Even you had to laugh.

Point: Reality is not limited to senses.

Just like I told you:the wall you see is not really there. There are atoms there,but they do not form solidity. The only reason you can walk through the wall is the motion between them. So is the wall real?

This seals the point that your argument about defining things that exist, as things that can be perceived with our senses only, is flawed.

Just like time exists. Just like galaxies which we cannot see, and will NEVER see, exist.

Reality is limited to senses. If Humans couldnt see blue, we wouldnt be talking about blue.


Anything beyond our senses is irelevant. We can not surpass our abilities or we would be superhuman.

Deep Sight: Good: so you CANNOT describe the color blue.

How then should I accept that it exists?

I can see blue.


Anyways, I can describe it to you if you see colours.


blue is the shade between violet and green

lololol

Deep Sight: Please just assume that I am color blind.

I ask you again to describe the color blue to me.

Why are y'all running from questions?

It is like asking me to describe myself to someone whi has been blind from birth. You mad?


Why dont you describe God for me?

Ihedinobi: lololololol......... Ain't this fun, bro?

ah, the intellectually bankrupt cheerleader arrives!

Deep Sight: Because of the cosmological question of the causation of the demonstrably finite universe.



I asked you to describe blue for me. ASSUME i am blind or color blind.

Go on, describe it.

The point is that your senses cannot be the last parametre for what is real.

I am partially colour blind.

Just because my sight is deficient, it doesnt mean that the colour doesn exist.

Deep Sight: Exactly, so how do we know the facebook logo or the sky is not an illusion: since EVERYTHING we see has a pattern or backdrop, no?

lol....so how do we know that God isnt a religious pattern? How do we know that God is an illusion implanted in our heads by fraudsters? Trollolololo



But seriously, the facebook logo is not a complex or overlapping patter. The brain falters on some certain levels of complexity


Logic Boss

[quote author=Mr_Anony]lol really? but in logicboy's world, numbers do not even exist.

Anyway i didn't ask him for color, I asked him for the tangible measurement of the "thought of color blue."

Let me give you your own assignment since you seem to share the same worldview as him. Now Plaetton, think of roast beef. Please be so kind as tell us the exact tangible units of measurement of that "roast beef thought". best evidence would be to provide us with the thought so that we can see it, taste it, touch it, smell it etc. Just hold the thought in your hand and take a picture if you may.[/quote]colour gradient, colour hue. Measuring colours



please read up.

Deep Sight: Not at all, if i were to post here a simple visual illussion, you might find that the color blue ceases to exist - sensually. That's the issue. The fact that you limited real things to our senses. That is faulty, clearly.

Visual illusions dont come in plain colours. They come in patterns to fool the brain because the brain forces itself to see patterns.

[quote author=acidosis™]You don't have to insult the females in her family..[/quote]I do.


Religious nutjobs need jarring responses to bring them back to reality

Deep Sight: He has not said they don't exist. Get the logic right: he is proceeding from logicboy's statement that real things must be measurable and quantifiable. The colors you see - and much worse - the thought of those colors - are not.

Is there any thought you have which you can extract, measure and quantify?

In fact, there is nothing that you think that you can prove exists.

Think on it.

The colours are measurable


Epic fail.


Reread his arguments again

[quote author=Mr_Anony]None of what you have said so far amounts to tangible evidence of a thought.

I asked you to tell me the specific measurement of your thought of color blue or any thought at all if you like just be sure to tell us exactly what thought it is and what it's exact physical measurements are.[/quote]If 1 billion people say that facebook logo is blue and we can all testify to that. Who the hell are you to say that it doesnt exist? What did we observe? Satan playing tricks on us?

Deep Sight: If you have studied visual illusions, you might be acquainted with the fact that what you see is not what is there. And this says alot. It says that that which is real can by no means be limited to our senses, as you earlier suggested. Even your partial color blindness says the same thing.

For Jayriginal, I add this - observation still remains the tool of science nonetheless.

Visual illusions dont come in plain colours. The colour blue exists since we can see it. The problem is that our colour-seeing abilities are limited. Aparently, there are deep colours invisible to the naked eyes.

obadiah777: YOU LIVE IN PEACE IN EUROPE BECAUSE YOU HAVE BEEN CONQUERED. YOU ARE VIEWED AS A CONQUERED RACE. INFERIOR, IF I MAY

Of course, britain conquered Naija. Instead of Nigeria to pick itself from the dust and improve our country and economy, we are busy following middle eastern religions and engaging in corruption!

Revolva: So what are you saying ? Disagree on what I write its the point and fact britain knew that this religion thing is not the way foward so they threw it away and followed up science n tech even all western world also - we africa are still in our dark ages

I agree with you! I was just saying that Buzugee aka Obadiah is sufferring from more than herpes!

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Fair enough.

In the same token, think of the color blue: Now please define that thought precisely in terms of tangibility: sight, smell, touch, feel, taste, measure and quantity.
To properly convince us, please provide us with tangible evidence of that thought maybe video evidence of what the "thought of blue" looks like.

If you cannot do that, then thought does not exist in your reality i.e. you are devoid of a mind.[/quote]Blue is a shade isnt it. We can see it. Colours have something to do with light and reflection. I didnt study physics , I am reaching my limits.

Kai na so God dey punish person? Anony is pushing me to the limits!


I am partialy colour blind but I have trained myself to see orange, if i find the shade of red to be funny and a bit lighter 7/10 times it is orange. Howeer, people look at me as if i'm mad when I call an orange material brown.

Deep Sight: By that token, time itself does not exist. Nor do thoughts. Nor do emotions. Nor do ideas.

Emotions and thoughts are chemical reactions. We feel the emotions. I am going to self-service soon. Blood will rush to my gbola and it will stand at a 60 degree slant. We can see (visualize) our thoughts in our brains.

Regarding time, that is a great question. Almost knocked me out and debunked me there! Time itself doesnt exist but aspects of it do.


It is a diffcult question to answer. Just google it and you will see that there are many websites ranging from physics to psychology asking if time exists.

The rhythm, movement and effects of the progression of time are very tanginble but time itself is very intangible. That is my answer, Partialy yes and no.



For once, you landed an intellectual blow, Deepsight, my respects!

Deep Sight: I cannot engage you in a discussion as advanced as that about numbers. You are not fit for such a discussion. I have told you that I am se.xually masochistic but not intellectually masochistic. So no thanks.



No: there is no limit to sub particles.

Regarding your debunked particle nonsense,


If you cant show me what is smaller than a quark, then shut the feck up. Dont do Anony Houdini with me

Deep Sight: I cannot engage you in a discussion as advanced as that about numbers. You are not fit for such a discussion. I have told you that I am se.xually masochistic but not intellectually masochistic. So no thanks.



No: there is no limit to sub particles.

lol.....there is no discussion. Any rational person knows that numbers do not exist. They are ideas, ideological constructs. Have you experienced number 4 ?



Hail the new God, number 4! Another abstract that Deep Sight believes exists

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Perhaps, you should define for us what it means for something to exist. How do we know that something exists?[/quote]How do we know that something exist?


Tangibility!


See, touch, smell, feel, taste, hear.......,measurable, quantifiable, etc



Anything beyond our senses is non-existent. Unless you have some 6th sense you want to share with us.

obadiah777: WITHOUT WAR THERE CAN BE NO PEACE. SO YOU MUST LOVE CHAOS

And when there is peace should war come after?

I live in peace in Europe but prophets of doom want rapturous wars.

Deep Sight: Olodo. Read your own link.

This is what it says -

So far it looks like there is nothing smaller inside an atom than quarks. Our experiments look for evidence that quarks have some sort of shape or structure. If they do have a shape or structure rather than just being a point (which by itself is a very difficult concept to understand), then there might be some sub-quark constituents. At present there is little or no evidence of any structure to the quark. Maybe there is though! That might be something for you, the next generation, to look for and try to figure out!



Numbers do exist. But it is beyond you to discuss the issue. Far far beyond you. I wont waste my time trying to do so with a nit wit. Read carefully this post -

https://www.nairaland.com/315294/atheists-empirical-reasoning-existence-god/8#4551331

You are quite mad to try to argue that numbers exist. You were proven wrong and now you want to shift and dump the argument. Hell no! Numbers do not exist and only an idiot or dishonest theist would argue they exist. They are ideological constructs.


It is like saying 4 exist or kilograms exist. They dont. They are ideas that we use as units of measurement. I weigh 72 kilograms, I exist but not the 72 kilograms. Another person would measure me in stones. They are just constructs. They are not existent in real life.

As for the smallest particles, we know nothing smaller than quarks. That is the end of the story. There might be speculation of something smaller but there is no evidence for that yet.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Fair enough.
The question how do we know and how do we know that we know?
I'll suggest to you that since our senses are not infallible we cannot know (in the sense of the question). However, there are certain basic information which we must take for granted. This is what we call reality. The problem however is that this basic reality or worldview can be false e.g. the urhobo boy who is sure that he is yoruba. How then do we know if our reality is true or false?
Enter logic: Logic is our way of weighing the truth value of our realities i.e. If our reality is true, then we can identify such and such as should follow from it. If they do not follow from it, then we can say that such a worldview is demonstrably false.

For an explanation of what I mean, we'll go back to the Urhobo boy who thinks he is Yoruba: If someone were to tell him that he is really Urhobo and not Yoruba, his rebuttals (if they are reasonable) would come in the form of "I have X attribute and Yorubas have X attribute therefore it should follow that I am Yoruba". The person trying to convince him must show that the attributes he is holding up are not exclusive to Yorubas and must then provide an attribute which is exclusive to Urhobos that Yorubas cannot have. If the boy has this attribute, then it is settled that he cannot be Yoruba. At this point, they would have arrived at truth by logic.

I'll submit that logic does for us what mathematics does for numbers (the basic laws of logic being the law of identity, the law non-contradiction and the law of the excluded middle)Do you agree up to this point?[/quote]The "urhobo boy that thinks he is yoruba" is a failed argument from the beginning. Only a confused person would believe such. One can not argue from that premise.

Revolva: Indeed herpes of the brain what a ridiculous write up sayin the black man ruled europe when and where I beg na lie -we have evr been on our own here and they gave us christainity to rip us and now its an era of tecnology they knew what they gave us aint true so now the british folks have discovered and shun away from all this religious stuffz and be themselves and we the blackman is here carryin what we don't know ever exisited on our head and doing all sort of stupid thin with it- wakeup this is the survival era not religious era africa wakeup

I disagree on the diagnosis sir.



It is syphilis of the brain as I am well acquainted with the mental patient.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Lol, he clearly isn't. I am happy to ask you a question though just to test. Why can the first cause not be an abstract such as a number?[/quote]What? Are you and deep sight arguing that numbers exist in real life?

And you expect me not to ridicule you guys? Are you mad?

Deep Sight: Numbers do exist, otherwise you won't even be typing. I don't expect that you are philosophically mature enough for us to venture into the discussion on numbers though.




O really? Oya, show me the smallest particle na?

Numbers exist? Are you mad? They are only ideological constructs. the number 2 does not exist in real life, it is only the figure we use to represent something double in value.


The smallest particle
http://education.jlab.org/qa/quark_01.html

Deep Sight: And the big bang was massive motion. Now tell me: are you unscientific enough to believe that such massive motion occurs without a trigger?

Do you think that such a trigger could be noodles?

we dont know what is beofre the big bang. If there was a trigger, yes it wouldnt be noodle, neither will it be spiritual ectoplasm