₦airaland Forum

[quote author=Mr_Anony]The funny thing is that the bible claims these "extraordinary events" as extraordinary events and not as common everyday occurrences. When the bible describes a miracle, it does not try to make it seem like an everyday event else it wouldn't be worth mentioning.
When you disbelieve such events, all you are really saying is that it is beyond your experience and to immediately brand something as untrue simply because it is beyond your experience is a bad form of ignorance.[/quote]Beyond experience? LMAO.....have you experienced a worldwide flood or a talking snake, yourself?


These extraordinary events are lacking extraordinary evidence and are beyond logic or common sense.

davidylan: confused. what was your point? You just seem to post so as not to lose an internet argument.

lol.....I will rest my case here for people to see who has been lying and talking nonsense

Arabs did not come to trade in anything other than slaves in Nigeria. Please, we should refrain from saying things just to protect religion.


What did Arabs trade in in Nigeria (other than slaves) if they came to trade or spread religion by trade?

davidylan: err perhaps because those people were just as much your ancestors as well right? I mean you use ancient jewish rites from 3000 yrs ago to bash christians then say we should only look at your people starting from the 15th century? Are you ok at all?

I could go as far back to the beginning of the 8th century- the point is that it is not necessary!


You are now seeing the problem- christians do not want to stop some archaic Jewish rites. It is the christians that go back to a book written over 2000 years ago.


As usual, you fail.

cyrexx: these guys are so blindfolded to the truth, almost hopelessly.

they will rather kill and be killed than see anything as true that is against their religion.



Islam has the strongest mind control mechanisms among all religions, in my opinion.

The thing is that they cant kill on the internet. I will forever be a thorn in the side of any religious bigot.

maclatunji: ^Going by your submission, even the rulers of Northern Nigeria were slaves to Arabs. A quite foolish submission.

What would be correct is that Islam spread to Nigeria via trade which included trade in slaves owned by African Aristocracy. Let us hear word abeg!

@ bold- that is factually stated in other West African areas conquered by Arabs. What you say is a foolish submission is actually reality. The rulers were in inferior to the might of Arabs.


I find it very funny that a Nigerian will willfully believe that The Arab foriegner came with good intentions to trade and our African rulers of the past willingly sold their brethren and people.

davidylan: So somehow you know what you ancestors were doing in 1245? Epic fail.

I would rather incest than burying people alive in sacrifice to forest gods.

lol.....and why would i need to go as far back as then? is 15th century not good enough?

Ubenedictus: sorry dear u gat d wrong man, cos im not anti intellectual nor all those this u described. Evolution is a scientific theory and as a scientist i accept it as such, one thing with a theory is that in d future, it may be modified or become a law. As a catholic i believe evolution hardly contradicts scriptures, and as a scientist i know it hasnt been proved beyond reasonable doubt.
Peace

Sorry then. Thanks for explaining your position

davidylan: you mean the same religious whites who ended the practice of slavery, stopped you savages from eating each other, burying yourselves alives in sacrifice to your gods, stopped you from burying your twins as bad omens? You mean the religious people who essentially ended 90% of your "moral" codes of conduct? Yeah... i would hate them too...

My ancestors did not eat each other. Majority of Nigerian tribes did not bury twins, especially mine.

My ancestors did not engage in incest. Your white christians did. My black Nigerian ancestors did not need whites to end it

My ancestors did not engage in slavery. They did not need to stop something that they did not start. Your christian religious whites engaged in it and are now claiming moral high ground when they sopped it.




Epic fail from Davidylan as usual

LagosShia: im not going through this again with your "facts" and allegations.ive gone through this slavery issue in the other thread.i thought this thread was about how Islam spread.i have asked questions you haven't answered because you honestly cannot say anything convincing.

What questions did you ask? If you notice, all the slavery routes of Arabs are where Islam is present.

All history books point to Islam spreading throughout West Africa through slave trade. Yes, maybe some of our fellow Nigerians did some work in the 15th-19th centuries to further spread it but the first spread of Islam was through slavery.


You can argue with history all you like but you have lost and I il contineu to educate Nigerians on their history with these foriegn religions of christianity and islam

davidylan: Even without watching the video i knew it would be another judgemental rant against the bible.

1000 yrs ago it was moral for a lot of cultures to eat strangers, 500 yrs ago it was moral for calabar people to bury twins, 500 yrs ago slavery was moral... all these were ended by religious white people. so much for "morality based on humanism".

The religious-christian white people engaged in incest, slavery and genocide.


But no, christainity is perfect in your brainwashed mind.

davidylan: Essentially evolution as a theory has not changed from Darwin's time. All we have today are a bunch of desperate atheists seeking "missing links" in search of questions that dont exist.

Even more epic fails!

Even a basic search on Wikipedia will tell you the difference
In the early 20th century, genetics was integrated with Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection through the discipline of population genetics. The importance of natural selection as a cause of evolution was accepted into other branches of biology. Moreover, previously held notions about evolution, such as orthogenesis and "progress" became obsolete.[6]



Another Epic fail;

What kind of biologist uses the term "missing link"?

plaetton: Generally, religion is a big destructive force in our Society.
I find it almost impossible to engage a moslem on any issue on religion, especiaaly if you hold anti-moslem viewpoint.
I do give christians credit for their ability to debate issues that contradict their beliefs. Islam is a totally different ball game.
Much more pernicous, much more mentally debilitating and much more intolerrant of contrary opinon.
There is no christian nation in the world where one can be killed for holding an anti-christian viewpoint.

The typical athiests does need to single out islam for criticism. Islam does a good job of showcasing and advertising its destructive potentials.
While its a lot easier to lift a christian from the dark pit of eligious delusions through reason, its almost impossible to rescue a moslem because , in Islam, the individual's entire personality is completely subsumed.

Great point. I agree until the last part. It is not almost impossible to rescue a muslim. It is only harder because of it's totally submissive nature and death penalty for apostacy. I believe that many muslims are converted to atheists by the arguments on NL but many are afraid to confess. See Avicenna's case- He even had to get a new ID so that no one would know who he was/is

cyrexx: if nairaland owner himself is afraid of real-life islamic fatwa (actual death threats)

dont be surprised if some nairaland posters are afraid of online islamic fatwa (unjust ban and unfair censorship/intolerance)


infact, i wont be surprised if this thread is moved to islamic section.

You have a point, no doubt.


Intolerance is not stopped with cowardice but with the truth

davidylan: you mean the same period where the laws of evolution that you all hug tightly today was developed? the same period where much of the significant breakthroughs in medicine where made? You are most confused.

Lollololol.


Is there a difference between the scientifc theory of evolution and evolution as at Darwin's time? If the answer is yes then please;


https://www.arjenfun.com/kriebelfun/images15/080607Theres_The_Door.jpg

[quote author=Mr_Anony]In fact to me secular humanism is strikingly similar in practice to satanism if the premises are to be followed logically.[/quote]This is why Anony should never be seen as a person with enough knowledge to handle a debate.


Satanism- religion. Satan is seen as a God or deity or venerated. Rituals. Ethical egosim

Secular humanism- Without God, looking ethics that benefit mankind. Focus on humans


Even Jesus is not feeling you!

https://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt192/gomu_gomu1982/Facepalm/jesus-facepalm.jpg

davidylan: lol this guy should change his ID to "epic fail". Suits you better than the nonsensical "logicboy".

I gave you the example of vestigial organs... of course that was too close to the truth so you pulled the "oh that was eons ago" card no? Talking to blocks heads like you is frankly a wasted exercise.

I cant wait for you to say "epic fail" again dumbo.

lol....you had to go to a time where there was no modern science to prove that much of science is opinions! Epic fail.

davidylan: 1. I was talking about Darwin in my last response to you before that, which is why i said English.

Narrow escape

davidylan: 2. There is now no need to define morality? then you go right ahead to provide a "definition"? Seriously are you ok? It is alright to say your position is completely indefensible. You bleat loudly about how you think our ancestors must have had a form of morality that is similar to what we have today WITHOUT PROOF and you want us to take you seriously?

We both know what we mean by "morality" in the common sense. But for argument sake, I defined it.


Your straw man ways do not surprise me. Thanks for putting words in my mouth. All I said was that our ancestors had a sense of morality.

Yes, they did. For instance, there is no word for "slave" in my Nigerian language and neither do we have history of selling people as slaves until the Portuguese and British came to Nigeria. Beheading of suspected witches and POWs was the norm. Furthermore, our tribe, just like any other African tribe encourage deep respect for elders and parents.

Funny how Buzugee and Toba's comments above would not be seen as "insulting" and "trolling" but a statement by logicboy can be stretched out to mean "trolling".



One has to define trolling before banning trolling. That is how laws are made

plaetton: To support this belief, Ihedinobi asked me how I was certain that snakes did not talk. In other words, He demanded proof from me that snakes did not talk.
Can you believe these guys?

LMAO

davidylan: Daft... i went as far back as that because it was the easiest example i could find that you or anyone could readily identify with. A lot of the scientific theories that we deal with (i mean scientists who truly work at the bench rather than empty-headed internet jingoists) starts out as personal opinions.

@ bolded
Epic Fail. Why couldnt you say that it ends as opinions and give one example

davidylan: Define morality.

Besides you're just as bad an uncle Tom who sits around crying about having to accept jewish morality while touting English scientific theories.

English scientific theories? As a biologist, shouldnt you know that Mendel and Carl Von Linne were not British or American?

There is no need to define morality. But let's say that morality is a set of principles or norms by which are put up for men to live a better, just life

davidylan: Much of science starts as personal opinion and a lot of it remains so. You dont know anything about science dumbo.
I give you a quick example - when Darwin wrote on vestigial organs, it was purely personal opinion that had no basis in scientific facts. But it was accepted by most of the scientific world for greater than 50 yrs.

"Is". Present tense. Science is not personal opinion. You had to go far back in time to prove your point, not that you did anyway.

diluminati: Fear of fatwa.

How can one issue a fatwa on a nameless and faceless person? hmm?

double j1: The calendar he will most definitely be using would be the calendar that was in use by them at that point in time

Imam Ali was 22 years old when the Islamic claneder started in 622. Imam Ali's reign started in 651.


Safe to say, Imam Ali used the Islamic calender which has 355 days. LagosShia has been debunked

davidylan: its perfectly ok to say you or others dont know. What do you define as morality and did such exist BEFORE christianity? Please explain.

Didnt your African ancestors have a sense of morality or are you an uncle tom that will accept Jewish morality as universal before even thinking about anything?

davidylan: I clearly disagree. There is plenty of "science" out there that is purely personal opinion. You really dont know anything about science do you?

Science is not personal opinion. You are wrong.

Science (from Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge" is a systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the universe.[1]

Yes, I am an atheist myself and I stand by this statement. There are atheists on Nairaland that inspire me and there are some that are just plain arrogant cowards.


Before I go on about the cowardice of some of my fellow atheists, I want to make sure that everyone knows that I am not claiming to be innocent myself. At times, I do get abusive when insulted or trolled. I also do not believe in making threads in the religion section that are off limits to people outside a particular religion. I also want to congratulate and cheer on the reasonable atheists who are consistent and not afraid to speak out on various religious issues.


Now, there is this issue of the intolerance in the Islam section which some atheists here avoid talking about. I will not name names but the cowards know themselves. The arrogant+cowardly atheists choose to ignore talking about islam but are ready to bash christianity from left to right. The arrogance comes in when I see these same atheists fluffing their intellectual feathers and talking about philosophy, logic and basic science. While it is nice to talk about philosophy and logic and stuff, a) anybody that reads a book on such issues can freaking do it and b)we should not overlook practical issues affecting us to focus on mostly theoretical ideals


We are mostly Nigerians on a Nigerian website called Nairaland and so, let us not lose focus on the practical issues facing us as a group of people. Islam is one of the main issues. Muslims have a right to their religion. However, their moderators/posters do not have the right to censor fair criticism and a right to be treated differently. How some atheists feel proud of themselves by only talking about certain problems with christianity while choose to remain silent on similar or worse problems in Islam. Such inconsistency, hypocrisy and cowardice is disgusting. There is a clear cut case of intolerance from the islam section where simple comments are banned. An inside joke between two people was banned by the moderator because he felt that it was insulting islam. The joke was about a funny comment on the thread (relevant to the topic) and did not mention islam. How can someone ban what he has no idea about? Furthermore, the Islam section itself is a paragon of intolerance- why should islam be treated differently from other religions? I guess that Seun's hands are tied on this issue (due to the threat) but we (both christians and atheists) have the avenues to talk about it. We should consistently remind everyone how the Islam section itself is not a good thing for the image of Nigerian muslims, in my humble opinion.

The funny part is that there is anonymity on the internet, yet some people remain cowards to speak the truth on the internet. I wonder what this means in real life for such people,.



Disclaimer;
1) I am not attacking all atheists. I am complaining about only the cowardly hypocrites amongst us. Congrats and my best wishes to the atheists that are not cowards and are always ready to speak the truth.

2) I am not calling on people to attack islam. Muslims have the right to their religion. What I am complaining about is intolerance and the silence on intolerance coming from the Islam section.

I watched the video and stopped 10 minutes in. The numerous problems in his points are glaring.


1) The basic premise that humanism is from christian values is only partially true and a gross exaggeration. We humans are born with natural instincts- some good some bad. We already have a moral compass. There exists a codified morality/ethics in ALL religions, be they theistsic, athesistic or monotheistic religions. Christianity has helped us in arranging certain moral/ethical principles in the bible, no doubt. However, christianity has some immoral and inhuman values as well (regulating slavery, inequality between women and men etc). Hinduism and Bhuddism have some religious pluralism to them that is not present in christianity (christianity does not accept the morality of an unrepentant unbeliever). Pluralism is central to Humanism.


2)Humanity does not have an equivalent to salvation in Christianity. Humanism does not promise a salvation for all but recognizes the potential of the human race to better if we use our knowledge, reasoning, natural values and freedom ethically.

Humanism is a democratic and ethical life stance, which affirms that human beings have the right and responsibility to give meaning and shape to their own lives. It stands for the building of a more humane society through an ethic based on human and other natural values in the spirit of reason and free inquiry through human capabilities. It is not theistic, and it does not accept supernatural views of reality.

3) The speaker in the video, is using one atheist's opinion as an opinion for all atheists and a profound truth on atheism.

LagosShia: read about the "Year of the Elephant" described din Suratil Fil in the Holy Quran:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_of_the_Elephant

http://www.al-islam.org/lifeprophet/4.htm


also about the Islamic and pre-Islamic calendars:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_calendar#Pre-Islamic_calendar

Caught lying again?


Havent you learnt from Tbaba's numerology claims? I debunk such claims for a living!



The Islamic calendar is 355 or 354 days. Please, show me how you got the figure of 360 days.

LagosShia: how did you know they were "mostly" muslims? why did you not say they were all muslims? therefore if you're yourself saying "most" (meaning not all were muslims) then why am i lying to state a similar possibility?

i have also explained to you that history records no conquest or arab military presence in sub-saharan africa to spread Islam.history holds that islam in sub-saharan africa and south-east asia spread peacefully without any conquest or resistance put up by the local populations.

as for punishment for slavery,i have answered you previous and even stated the punishment:
https://www.nairaland.com/998816/honest-question-muhammad-pbuh/1#11553687

1) Why is it so hard to answer a simple question? Punishment for adultery is flogging, according to the Quran. What is the punishment for slavery?


2) It is only in the mind of a brainwashed person that 11- 17 million black slaves were taken peacefully. That is the amount of slaves taken by muslim Arabs. Have you tried to enslave someone before? Is it a peaceful process?



3) How do I know that the Arabs were mostly muslims?

a)The spread of Islam wherever they were involved in slave trade; Kano, Borno, Chad, Salaga etc. If the majority of slave traders were non-muslims, how is it that it wasnt Arab paganism that spread?
b)The fact that it is widely reported in history books and reliable websites that Islam played a major role in African slavery.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/history/slavery_1.shtml#h4
http://africanhistory.about.com/od/slavery/a/IslamRoleSlavery01.htm



4) What military records are you looking for? Slaves were gained through conquests. We are not discussing Muhammad's military tactics here.