₦airaland Forum

bigfrancis21: Macof, You called me a fool?

Am sorrymy friend, I didnt mean to insult, I was actually laughing out loud as I typed it.

The very statement that made me laugh was where you stated "Yoruba pagans kill and spill blood in sacrifice to angry wooden images like Sango and Orunmila"

Orunmila has no idol anywhere, his devotess don't carve images to represent him. Opon Ifa and Opele is all the equipment needed to represent Orunmila.

And whe don't worship idols, we carve them just like how Christians carve images of Jesus and Mary. It's wat they represent that we worship.


And we don't kill and spill blood like savages, we use animals, human sacrifice is unheard of in Yoruba pagan rituals.

The Gods are personified Primordial Energies that sustain the universe not mere idols. Idols are earthly representation, We are not Fools to take stone and wood as our creator, We know wat we are doing and Being naturalist and spiritualist, it's No ones Job to come and tell us wat we don't do- that is telling us we worship demons or mere wood.

That's wat you've been doing since and it's your lack of knowledge and understanding in this matter upon the way you talk with authority that marvels me.

Am sorry
Next time try to understand people because you Clearly don't understand Paganic spirituality

bigfrancis21: I wanted to skip this but thought I'd address this issue.

I'm active at bringing down yoruba's greatness? What's great about yoruba's ATR in the first place? What's also there to bring down in the first place? And other ATRs too? I'm sorry if you feel that way about me but you're wrong.

While defending your religion in the spirit of solidarity, which I understand, and parading it as the greatest and best in the world, you've utterly failed to realize, on the flip side, that you're yoruba only in this incarnation. In the next one, you'll probably be chinese and practise confucanism or shintoism and probably parade confucanism as the best and greatest religion in the world. Then in another lifetime as an indian, and parade Buddhism as the best in the world. Religions are man-made things.

However, spiritual evolution and spiritual knowledge doesn't belong to any religion, group or anybody and is universal to everyone. It supersedes all religions of the earth. It contains universal truths which are lacking in man-made religions. You'll never find universal truths in religions. You'll have to step outside the blindfold of religion in order to be able to perceive and know the truth.

For a second I almost thought you stepped out of the christian religion into spirituality, not knowing you jumped into ATR instead. Its like you took a step front and then one step right back to where you were before.

Like Sushieater said, this isn't about my religion is greater than your religion. You're wearing the thick foggy lenses of religion and I'm trying to pull you out from its shackles.

Ok maybe am mistaken but why do you always tackle Yoruba issues and act all anti-Yoruba?

I would never assume Yoruba supremacist in anything, every pagan civilization has a wonderful pantheon, Great understanding of The primordial forces, it's not for one group of people alone.

But I try to develope and always active in Yoruba issues because it's my duty as a Yoruba man to carry my Ethnic group High and be proud of it.

If I wasn't Yoruba I could be Mayan, Greek, Igbo or Japanese, and I've studied their pagan spirituality and it's no different from the Yoruba concepts only with different stories. Check them out, they all explain the same thing.

leggo: you forget that the descendants of the gods exchanged their kin for mirrors and viagra..

what's this?

bigfrancis21: So you're subjugating Jesus to the back seat and bringing forward orumila as equal to or greater than Jesus?

Also did you just describe Jesus as a dead man?

Pls give a list of Jesus achievement and I'll give a list of Orunmila's

Of course, Jesus is dead like every human who passes his life span.

bigfrancis21: Ancient Jews or Hebrews rather were pagans. It isn't only an african thing. If you worship man-made gods, attribute names, powers and meanings to them, offer sacrifices to them, the word for it is 'pagan'.

Wats this rubbish about man made gods How can a man make a primordial Energy? You really know nothing about spirituality and read from books
Paganism is simply natural way of tribe.

The God force is infinite, loving, great and mighty and can never be subjugated into a mere wood or tiny graven image. Never. Man, in his limited senses and being mortal act from mediocrity. Many slumber for they know it not. They don't know who they truly are and where they come from.

lmao Funny guy, Talking like a true Christian, abeg don't deny your mentality is built on Christian ideology.

Hence they attribute their lives to carved images and so-called gods which from the spiritual angle(in the afterlife) are totally meaningless and lacking in truth and knowledge required for spiritual growth and soul evolution. What does paganism tell us about our purpose on earth here? What does it tell you about where you come from and the life beyond earth? What does it tell you about your immortality and your soul? Absolutely nothing. Totally lackluster. All it cares about is killing, spilling red blood and making blood sacrifices

Chai! Big francis you fall hand. So you are this ignorant? I never knew. Pls learn, research and understand things before you come spilling thrash. Paganism is not all spirituality but tradition, culture and language. Paganic Spiritualities are have High understanding of the primordial and Spiritual world.

to some angry wooden image(amadioha, sango, orumila etc)

wow! So Orunmila is mere wooden image? Lol Orunmila has no Idol representation. I wonder wat Jesus is if Sango is a mere wooden image, That would make Jesus a mere statue

and at the end of the day souls are misguided and lost and find themselves repeating the life cycle all over. That's the fact. Its the same way for certain world religions. It is the lack of spirituality in ATR and many world religions that made the God force to send a representative of his, a soul who embarked on the earth journey long ago and had attained
spiritual evolution - the epitome of the God force's desire for us, to visit earth and teach earthlings about our true home, and our purpose in life, so as to focus on what's important in life in order to escape the endless cycle of death and rebirth. Unfortunately, his message has been distorted greatly over the centuries into modern-day christianity.

and this universal messenger that God sent only stayed in one location, he couldn't travel the world and preach in Brazil, Nigeria, Senegal etc. You are confused mate, you don't know where you are.[/quote]

iphedahyor: God created Adam and Eve(I believe they are both white) into the garden of Eden which is neither in Nigeria nor Africa.
Somebody should tell me the biblical or quranic origin of the black
Do u succumb that u're a descendant of Cush/Kush the son of Ham/Kham who was cursed by his father Noah?

Adam and Eve, Noah have no place in Yoruba origin.
One thing is the story is not literal

[quote author=PAGAN 9JA]dude we Pagans are the ones who started and invented Spirituality.

you are now teaching us abi? *smh see yarn[/quote]Don't mind the guy. He feels he knows too much

bigfrancis21: From the spiritual angle, he's universal to everyone because in our soul state in the afterlife we all know him. I wasn't referring to him being present in all religions. Religions are man-made constructs and are totally irrelevant in the afterlife. Any truly spiritual person would have simply understood what I meant. In our soul state before we proceeded to earth, we all knew the Jesus soul and everybody is interconnected to him and others. He's like a big brother to us, there to guide us in this journey called earth life and doesn't lord himself over us or want us to bow to him. He's universal to everybody on earth because he will always come to your aid when you call for him despite your religion. Its only a few religions that acknowledge him. Others don't, fine. He doesn't care. Some souls(especially the infant and baby souls starting out the earth life journey) need religion anyway for the order and man-made rules that come with it. It helps these infant souls to maintain order in their lives.

You may find this difficult to understand. If I may ask, what's your affiliation? Moslem, ATR, Christian, Spiritual?

Every soul is connected. we all have a common source, the soul of the mad man in your village is connected to you.

So singling out Jesus is pathetic and a criminal intent. Orunmila's soul is connected to everyone, Jesus's soul is connected to everyone, Ojukwu's soul is connected to everyone.

We all come from the same place. Wats your agenda with all this Jesus supremacist? Pls explain This your new concept of Jesus that even Christians don't know

I like dat guy, he's in the spirit

Mintayo: So he is even dead? Misctcheww...was even rating him high as a demon,didnt knw say na dead,rotten fellow.
And saying he was born 3000yrs before Jesus is so hilarious,i guess you don't really knw who Jesus is,you don't even have a clue.
I will leave you with ur dead orunmila...em em,but note that Jesus loves you,He exists before the begining of the world and He is Alive.

Yes Orunmila like every human loosed his body and transited to the spiritual realm. Jesus is also dead like every human who lived 2000yrs ago

Jesus existed over 10billion years ago Lol I get that Jesus soul is alive not body, just like my grandfather is still alive, just like Orunmila is still alive

It's no difference, Human body gets destroyed and the energy gets converted to something else but the soul lives forever.

@bigfrancis.

I have no business with Jesus, he is as dead as any man who ever lived, humans come and go, achieve their destiny and probably return again for unfinished business.

Orunmila's soul lived over 3 lifes. it is believed that his last life was as Agboniregun the Babalawo who prophecied Oduduwa's coming.

Jesus is Adam Well maybe also Melchizedek, Jesus was a good teacher but his end was pathetic and his people were ashamed of him. Go to Israel and hear stories which Bible dear not pen down.

I noticed you always active when dismissing Yoruba greatness. However this is not a tribal issue.

In a scale Buddha Was more efficient to his people than yeshua(Jesus) was.
Because Romans elevated him to God status and used him to form a religion doesn't guarantee anything.
You say Jesus achieved more than Orunmila on earth. Wat did Jesus achieve? In his 33 yrs on earth wat did he do that no one else did? All his miracles have been done by people before him, his message of love has been taught in various forms by old prophets around the world.
Orunmila came with a new concept, new message, a new way for humans to High complexity and consciousness.

Give a list of Contributions Jesus give to the world and I'll give For Orunmila

Image123: Ignorance is a problem, your religion cannot solve it. Get wisdom.

pls answer my questions
If Yahweh is the true God and Jesus is his only son and heir to the throne what's your take on Olodumare that has numerous children?

ifeness: Didn't the Catholic Church own African slaves?

Yh they did
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery_in_Maryland

FrancisTony: What is your own? Like seriously! Yeah. Thank God for the sending his son to the earth and through him the goodnews of God was disseminated to mankind . Awwn i'm glaring/glowing in Spirit!

Non of your shango, thor, okijajuju etc that fashioned against me will prosper

Why would Sango or Okija want to harm you?
Guilty conscience

FrancisTony: Like seriously you're dumb. Paganism is trash and they have done no good than harm.

And what do you know about paganism?

Wat is paganism?

FrancisTony: you are demented and suffering from amnesia coupled with schizophrenia. Does that look like Jesus.

When will you have sense? Mehn!! Smh

How would you know if it looks like Jesus?

Jesus has no known image, he is as faceless as a cow dunk

FrancisTony: Named after pope indeed. I was named after Saint Francis of Assisi and I love his lifestyle not like Okija juju that sucks blood.

Really @bolded? Please explain it.
Sun was made by God and you know that. He loves mankind and that's why he made it.

Paganism indeed. When Maryslessor came in Nigeria was it not paganism that was killing people.
Slave trade- was it not paganism in the olden days like human trafficking.

Butchering people in the name that ur so-called god want to suck blood and calling God creation an outcast. Smh

You have no idea wat lays in the history books of the Vatican church, many have even been burnt

Your Catholic Fathers have murdered Millions of innocent people for foolish reasons concerning the church.
Read up on it, I know Christians are lazy and don't read that's why they fail in life starting from academics.

Read your Christian history, France and England where demons working for Jesus their demon king. Killing innocent people in Jesus name.

FrancisTony: Like seriously you're dumb. Paganism is trash and they have done no good than harm.

And what do you know about paganism?

Wat is paganism?

ckkris: Then why do you write emphatically that Jesus doesn't forgive sins, if your only claim is that you do not know. If I say I'm eating catfish for lunch, you don't have to ASSERT that its lie, if you can't prove your ASSERTION. The burden is upon you to prove what you CLAIM TO KNOW, unless you are like me, because I DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING.

Pls proof your Jesus and stop blackmailing people

POPE II: Sorry you need to embrace Catholicism first, recognize Jesus as God, and the pope as leader of believers on earth.

Explain what christianity is and describe the attributes attached to it.

Only a fool would embrace what he doesn't understand
Well it's no wonder Christians are the way they are- foolish enough

POPE II: Convert first, then you will go to catechism classes

So this is how you run a ministry

"believe me first for no reason, when you have been completely brainwashed then you'll understand"

Lol this is why christianity is only for the foolish

FrancisTony: ewww! Did i tell you i don't know the meaning of "IFE".
I'm asking why did you put the "NESS" there.
My name Francis is a french name of Latin origin.
Gone are those days when paganism will dictate what name we bear. And my name means "Free-man".
Meaning that we are free from paganism.
We are now born in christ who died for the universe.

And being free from paganism is a good thing?

FrancisTony: you ain't make sense dude!

Smh You are a disappointment to human reasoning

POPE II: Yes

Within your skull is a big void

[quote author=PAGAN 9JA]A conscious entity is not necessairly a person.

Does God have eyes, mouth , ears, nose, etc[/quote]This is where people get it wrong

They only want to see a white old man living in space

Joshthefirst: Energy in motion, is not conscious, does not have direction. It must be harnessed. The consciousness and direction we see in the universe implies a conscious and purposeful God. The fine-tuning of universal constraints to make life possible cannot be ignored. This is not "godidit".

energy is conscious, more conscious than Mass or Matter.
Science doesn't know that but spirituality does. The directions and organized movements in the universe is controlled by Energy- which is always and has always been conscious.
Science is still far behind Spirituality

This is the fact that the universe itself implies a conscious and purposeful creator. We call him God. He is not an ignorant answer to our questions, he is an acknowledgement of a very sane and seeing man.

Yes and that creator is Pure Energy, which we call God. When we pray it's not an invisible man that answers(if it gets answered) but primordial forces aligned in your favor. That's why you should always deal with positive state of Energy- prevent yourself from being dominated by Negative forces, That is why Ifa teaches 'Iwa-Pele' good character in universal balance. It keeps everything going smoothly and favors coming in from every angle It's not about Wishing to an unseen old man

So I disagree with you macof. God is not energy. God is a being, like us. He is the Cause.

God is not like us in this sense, because God is the beginning the very state of Nothingness and Nospace which Transformed into Everything we see today.

And the fact that humans paint this "God" in their image does not nihilize his "Being" and his objective attributes.

Wat is your definition of being? Because it seems your idea of God is being means that he has eyes, legs, hand and a butt to sit on a throne

Sylvekzee: More grease Macof! More grease to these your elbows. And you too FOLYKAZE. The "God" term has become one cone of the most misunderstood concepts in this life, all thanks to religion especially christianity.

Religion's foundation is taken from Spirituality, it's pillars are used to build religion.

Many Christians don't know the origin of their religion.
(Canaanite Paganism < Yahwish < Judaism) + (Various European Pagan Traditions) = Christianity

A thorough study of canaanite spirituality you would find out that Yahweh was a mountain God of the Kenite and Midian tribes. Abraham lived in kenite territories and was introduced to Yahweh. Other Gods existed Baal Haddad, Asherah, Yaw etc. and The head of the pantheon El Elyon

I have an Israeli friend who first pointed this out that Abraham was a foreigner who simply adopted a God from the new land he lived. Some people claim Abraham referred to a group of people but I don't think so because his life seems well mapped out and told in sequence.

Now if Yahweh's true identity is as a Mountain God that makes him counterpart of Orisha Oke. Why do mountain dwellers devote to mountain God? Because they wish to harness the Energies and Primordial Elements responsible for Mountains. Same goes with Farmers devoted to Orisha Oko, Fishermen devoted to Water Gods and Goddess notably Yemoja and Olokun.
You can't see a fisherman devoted to Mountain God

This is simply in a bid to gain favor in your specialty. This primordial energies can be harnessed and manipulated for ones benefit

I have a request for you guys. How can one be/grow spiritual? i.e be able to identify, and relate with these "forces" and his own spiritual self?

The forces are everywhere and even within us. The Most important thing is to grow in consciousness, and one major step to achieving that is good character, always exchange positively charged energies throughout your life and the primordial forces would align in your favor. Identifying and interacting with the forces is on a different plain it takes time and devotion which is easier done by training. All you need to be concerned about is your life and achieving your destiny

www.nairaland.com/1577497/god-science

pls read and understand. also input your ideology on God and Energy

www.nairaland.com/1577497/god-science

Read and understand

Mintayo: Yes now,Orunmila was around during the time of Jesus,infact he might be ard during d OT now,afterall orumila is a demon.:p

Orunmila was not around during the time of Jesus, he was dead over 3000yrs before Jesus was born.

Orunmila was a prophet- the first Babalawo in history. He was a philosopher and scientist of Great intelligence and the only one I can compare to him in history is Thoth- an ancient Egyptian mathematician and scientist.

He is more than an angel nothing close to your concept of demon

www.nairaland.com/1577135/encounter-satan

Sir mynd pls frontpage.
Abeg no vex but this is really important as well as the one I posted before

What do you expect from a region that accepted Islam in controversial and 'last resort' situations.

They were forced to be muslims by Arab raiders who politically led them and imposed high taxes, double labor and much humiliation.
I pity them, but then it's their fault, they shouldn't have given up. What did they think that accepting Islam would be best for them and their descendants It's never the best to dump your ancestral practices for a foreign one.

Now they can see that Islam brought nothing but slavery.

Islam should be dealt with first. That's if they have the balls and sane mind for it, because I think many are too brainwashed to see the evil of Islam in their land