₦airaland Forum

PAPA AFRICA: well i wouldn't know if he was a contemporary of Jesus since Orunmila is known through oral history and Jesus is known through written history that can be dated but Yoruba people would have existed during the time of Jesus.

Jesus is not known through any written history. History is first passed orally before someone picks it up to write.
The gospel was written until 100yrs after Jesus Died and that's still up for debate cause it seems Matthew wasn't written until 300yrs later

iphedahyor: Perhaps I was thinking.And then he(satan) africa are fools with dark brains.
At this point,the discussion changes from argumentative to narrative and I became the one listening.
He(satan) used the yoruba ethnic as a reference.And he asked "where was africa(yoruba) during the existence of Jesus christ??".I couldn't say a word,perhap I was still thinking of what to say.
Then he(satan) said Orunmila is equivalent/equal to Jesus.
I was so mad at him and I said why? how? in annoyance but he looked at me with a smile and said yes,they are equivalent.
He proceeded and said Jesus was in Israel reigning and saving people while Orunmila was here doing the same.(I dey look)
He said we are fools because we accepted what the white told us and rejected what we knew and what we saw.
....to be continued....

I don't believe in your satan tale but I believe in your message. I am a yoruba pagan and my ancestors honored the Orisha(primordial forces aka Gods).
And it's mostly thanks to Baba Ifa- Orunmila. Orunmila is said to have lived in Ile-Ife about 6000yrs ago before relocating to Ulesun/Ilesun(now known as Ado-Ekiti) where he developed Ifa system through the advice of his friend Elegba. Orunmila came up with the idea of 'Odu' (which was his wife's name) which could mean 'womb' or 'store of energy'. I don't know how he did it but he understood and was able to explain the concept of 'Odu'. This is where the idea of 'Olodumare' came from meaning 'owner of the womb of infinite possibilities'. Ifa has since been Yoruba holy system of Communication with primordial forces. Orunmila displayed exceptional intelligence and wisdom which made Our ancestors use his name to describe the primordial force of intelligence and wisdom.
Orunmila is indeed our Jesus.

Spirituality is truly the Profound source of science.

And It is the context of religion, However we must try to understand things before accepting or condemning it.
Every Pagan Civilization has it's Spirituality and Pantheon which are personified Primordial Forces of Nature and Sustainers of the Universe.
A thorough study and understanding of this Pagan spiritualities around the world explains the Universe as the locals understood it.

I have met so many who take these stories literal- they hear Obatala is an old man with white beard wearing white, and falling asleep when he's suppose to pour sand on the primordial water. This is not literal but an intelligent use of metaphoric symbolism to explains this phenomena to people.

Back in the days, our ancestors didn't have all the science equipments we have now but they had theirs
They studied astrology and even human anatomy their philosophies were branded into spirituality with personification. Many still take this literally because they are either too lazy to learn or just too religious to think, research and understand.

Many Christians and Muslims accused the idea of pagan spirituality of being idolatry, evil and hell bound not only because they don't understand Paganism but because they don't understand The Universe.
Everything is a God, even I am a God, dogs, snakes, pigeons are all manifestation of God not creation but manifestation.
God didn't create from nothing, he/it created from himself.

We are all connected, I am you in another formation, you are your grandfather in another formation.<< not reincarnation now but just a matter of bond, the link is inseparable.
Energy is in Everything and Energy is Everything

God is me and I am God in another formation, the only difference is complexity and height of consciousness

www.nairaland.com/1577497/god-science

Here's a thread with me explaining God so all parties(atheists, pagans and wannabe Arabs, Jews and Romans) can understand God

We all know Oladegbu is only good at making assumptions

POPE II: That's y you didn't react when he called us brainwashed right? You even liked his comment

and how do you know this?

POPE II: Okay. I want to make it clear for once : I'm not interested in Yoruba history or Yoruba paganism, don't get me wrong I'm not interested in any paganism b it yoruba,.Igbo or Hausa . I don't give a rat azz about them, like I said earlier paganism is purely folkloric to me , it is like going to the zoo . , it is for entertainment purpose like Lagos festival . Period

@,pagan Christianity transcend tribes and races I'm a Christian first before anything, and believe me or not if nigeria attacks the Vatican I will fight on the side of the holy Vatican

Since you don't know anything about the Yoruba history or even your own Igbo history why are you talking?
You practically know nothing about what you are saying but you talk like you do.

Folklore you say?? And Bible isnot folklore?lol you reek of hypocrisy

Study and Understand something before you condemn it. I know all about your christianity, better than you do- I was once a strong evangelist before I began to reason for myself and not let a book do the thinking instead of my brain.
There's nothing knew about your shitty gospel that I don't know, even things that they hid from you in your Roman catholic church I know.

But you on the other, Wat is Olodumare? You don't know and you are here condemning.
__________________

Of course we know that if your fathers people are dying you would add insult to injuring. But your masters- the Roman Vatican you forever slave to

POPE II: In few words you ain't sure of what you are practicing and only have a vague idea yet you want to bring in that useless thing?
Dude stop screaming paganism , you think that useless thing was funny for everyone? In igboland do you think the so called OSU(may God forgive me calling someone an OSU) want to go back to Igbo paganism? Where they were sacrificed anyhow?

Do you think Yoruba still want to b buried alive with their pseudo monarchs?
You are on a long thing

This was stopped over 200yrs ago. It was our tradition that a king is of Great complexity that is even at death his soul is not like commoners and so such a soul shouldn't be stressed when returning to the spiritual realm.
A horse boy, you has been an escorter of the king, commits suicide and is buried with his dead king to keep doing his duties in the afterlife.
It is believed that kings are of high complexity only being surpassed by the Gods and you can't have a king doing the chores.
Death is not always an issue of disasters to Pagans because, We know our souls would always be converted into something else and achieving high complexity enables a good reincarnated life.

The act was stopped when a princess fell in love with a horse boy, can't remember the kingdom but it spread to all other Kingdoms and became a new tradition for horse boys to never commit suicide.
You talk like christianity or British interrelation has anything to do with this.

POPE II: you are the one being a fool here, keep entertaining me , like I keep saying/asking can you prove to me that 2000years ago your ifa was practiced as it is now? Can you prove to me that all yoruba practiced it ? Since inception many tribes have been subjugated by more powerful tribes all over Africa and the world in general , do you think religious dominance started today? Think outside the box for once .

Which large tribe conquered the Yoruba people? The only one in all of history is The English and they brought christianity with them.

You seem to have problems understanding basic concept of pagan spirituality- they self evolve over time, People study the sky and Nature around and get better understanding of the Gods. Before Thunder and lightening were not one God but it became so. Oya was not always the wife of Sango but it became so.
New understanding in Some generations improve and advanced the pantheon.

POPE II: Stop distorting history I know plenty ijebu guys who say they ain't Yoruba and have never been Yoruba, they don't acknowledge your ife origin or whatever

You speak some truth...I might open a thread to clarify this later.

the name 'yoruba' describes Oyo people who were the greatest nation in our region at a time. Oyo, Ijesha, Ekiti, Awori all have the same origin, culture traditions and similar language identified as dialects of the Yoruboid language group. Our spirituality didn't just start today it started from Ile-Ife and spread with us as we migrated.

Learn history before you come and start speaking like you know poo

POPE II: I interact with a lot of them. They are all proud/staunch Christians-Catholics .

Maybe you missed my point, my point was that your paganism may have changed as time goes on . Like I said cultures are not static they borrow add, loose etc . Maybe the paganism you are following today was imposed on you by a more powerful group or Yoruba group, who knows? I can go as far as 1700 , since 1700 all my people have been staunch Catholic, that's enough for me , I'm not going to look for something that doesn't exist anymore.

Lies Igbo man claiming his ancestors were catholics, can you trace your bloodline to 1700s and sure they all catholics? You think you talking to fools here who don't know when christianity entered Nigerian territory.
Unless you have an American or European ancestry but if your father's bloodline is pure Igbo you are Igbo and the Igbo religion is your ancestral religion

POPE II: yawns, what makes me a slave? As if the so called Romans did not abandon their own paganism, at least in Nigeria we consider it as folklore over there they don't know about it anymore .lol like I said prove to me that your actual paganism has always existed and been practiced by all Yoruba. If you can't then shove it where the sun doesn't shine. My forefathers were Catholics and they know/knew better than you .

Proudly Roman Catholic

The Roman government under constantine supported christianity for political advantages. They imposed it on the pagans. Even constantine was a pagan till death...rumor goes that he was never baptized but the catholic church claims he was baptized few seconds before he died

What's this rubbish about proving Yoruba paganism It's called Yoruba paganism and not Igbo paganism, where do you think it originated from since you think it's not reall Yoruba?
Guy you just proving your stupidity, if you have prove that Yoruba traditions, language, culture and spirituality is from another civilization imposed on us you bring it forward and stop yarns rubbish.
Your lack of knowledge in History is glaring

POPE II: Dude you can't even prove to me that 500years ago your people were following the same and exact paganism-religion you are bothering people with . This is exactly what I meant when I said you guys suffer from inferiority complex , what makes you think we gave up on our culture, tribes and religion? Who told you a culture is static ? Do you think hausa people started the way you found them?

The Scandinavian abandoned their paganism, so did the Germans, etc today they are leading the world in all ramifications , which simply means your paganism doesn't guaranty anything , and you can embrace Christianity and still work for your tribe or country .

Stop suffering from inferiority complex

500yrs ago Yorubaland was a pure pagan region with each nation having a patron out of the 401 Orisha, families and individuals might also be devoted to other Orisha depending on their occupation or location. Farmers are always devoted to Orisha Oko, Mountain dwellers are devoted to Orisha Oke, Herbalists are connected with Osayin. Hunters and blacksmith are devoted to Ogun

The compilation of this pantheon is close to 6000years going by Ifa records, the only difference throughout the millennias are the names eg. Sango was formerly Jakuta formerly Aramfe, Ogun was formerly Tobe Ode formerly Osin. Many more like that The myths have also changed as a generation could gain a new understand of 'Sango' that gets added into his 'Pataki'.
We never adopted foreign names into our pantheon. Our Gods are named after Great men who were exceptional when alive eg. 'Sango' is named after the 3rd king of Oyo.

When you know your history you would know this.

So stop looking for excuses
______________________________
Germans are Scandinavians and they took their paganism into christianity, All of your Christian traditions have roots in European pagan practices.

Never has anyone claim religion or spirituality guarantees you to be a world leader because if that's the case Africa is the most religious continent yet the most backward.

China and Japan are among the top nations of the world, they are mostly atheist who still practice their ancestral pagan traditions even if they are not compelled to but their have that Pride in identity and love for their ancestors.
technically Germany is still more pagan/atheist than Christian.

There's always an advantage in embrace what is yours- look at Majorly Muslim nations, the real Arabs among them are progressive but the non-Arab Muslim regions are really backward and fight all the time. The spirits are not happy with them and all that comes to them is negative with violence and sorrow.

Embrace What is yours and dump the foreign poo.

www.nairaland.com/1577497/god-science

Pls mynd help me move this to front page it's every essential to the existence of God

According to Science The Elements formed during the big bang are:
1. Hydrogen (H) Is the lightest element and the primordial source of water(H2O), it is the most abundant element force in the universe. Yoruba spirituality personified this as Yemoja.

2. Helium (He) is the 2nd most abundant element force in the universe, existing mainly as gas(except in extreme conditions). Helium is rare in the Earth's atmosphere with traces of it trapped in other noble gases. (I am still trying to understand this element but for now I see this to be Aganju)

3. Lithium (Li) a soft, silver-like metallic substance, it is the lightest metal element and the primordial source of Iron material. it is present in all organism as Lithium ion. Traces of it is said to have been present during the big bang. Yoruba personified this as Ogun. (Yoruba creation story attributes Ogun to be the forger of the silver chain)

4. Solar wind is a term for the elements of nobel gases captured within the Sun's atmosphere. These elements can be free from the Sun's gravity with time and consists of Oxygen and Carbon. (this Yoruba spirituality personified as Orungan)

Water makes up to 75% of Earth's surface. It's Origins are still reason for debate with A list of theories
1. Cooling of the primordial elements(Hydrogen and Helium) to the point where the outgassed components were held in the Earth's atmosphere and released as liquid water.

2. Icy comets of frozen hydrogen running across the galaxies and colliding with earth

3. Biochemically through mineralization and photosynthesis

4. Gradual leakage of water stored in Hydros minerals of the Earth's rocks

This Scientific theories of Water's Origins can be understood with the Yoruba story of pregnant Yemoja running away and burst out as Olokun(sea and oceans), Osun(rivers), Olosa(lakes and lagoon).

The Big Bang Theory states that the universe expanded from an extreme dense state in The first Energy formation which produced heat and light. This act thus started the universe by it's fast expansion caused by the Hot and dense state of Energy. Then the cooling of the universe allowed Energy be converted with the deposition of Subatomic particles. This began a new phase in creation as Mass began to form with the appearance of Hydrogen and Helium, from this primordial elements came other elements notably Lithium. The energies now present began to charge through gravity to form stars and galaxies as well as manifest into primary compounds of Water, Wind, Wood, Iron, Earth matter etc.

Dark Energy is a form of Energy that spreads throughout the universe and tends to accelerate the expansion of the universe caused by the spark light of the first Energy formation. It is the most abundant mass-Energy in the universe with about 70%. (my personal understanding of this Energy form is that it was the first to achieve a complete/perfect atomic structure well enough to form mass, this making it an agent in the big bang and 2nd Energy formation)

In science Matter consists of Atoms and Molecules, atoms which contain Nucleus surrounded by negatively charged Electrons, recently the Nucleus as been,understood to be a mix of positively charged Protons and neutral Neurons. The Chemical bond between the Protons, Neutrons and Electrons forms a Molecule. No spirituality I know explains this unit of existence though figurative representation is present in Yoruba spirituality (as sand) carried by Obatala during creation but collected by Oduduwa.

Yoruba creation Account states that Obatala(the Orisha white clothes) came with a silver chain, sand and a chicken but before he could even start forming the world he got drunk and slept off, Oduduwa then came, collected all the items of creation and started forming the world. Obatala rules Orun as first child and chief representative of Olodumare. Obatala and Oduduwa are couples who Orun as represented with a calabash, Obatala taking the top and Oduduwa taking the bottom. Oduduwa represents the 'black womb' of existence which is the mother of All, she/he is often described as a blind caring parent, As she lost her eyes in a fight with Obatala. from Oduduwa's womb came Yemoja and Aganju. Yemoja and Aganju were couples who had one son- Orungan. Orungan molested his mother(Yemoja), and as she was running away from him She fell and her stomach burst from there came the Sun, Olokun, Ogun, Moon, Oya, Sango, Olosa, Osun etc.

The term 'Energy' derived from the Greek word 'Energeia' meaning 'activity' that is 'to do', before this 'vis vival' meaning 'living force' was used to describe what is now known as Energy.

There's a Law which governs all,activities in the universe. This law is implemented and executed by energy: what modern science calls Conservation of Energy.

Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, however it can change forms by conversion and flow from one place to another
A change in Energy from one form to another is as a result of [conscious movements in it's surrounding] rearrangement in it's atomic structure in reaction with various factors eg. Time and Space

The concept of energy and it's conscious movements is vital in explaining Nature and Existence. Energy transformation aka God's conscious movements have been responsible for not only creation but sustaining the universe which manifest as various State of Energy

The first Form of Energy [during the Big Bang] was transformed within it's surrounding into the State of Heat and light- this is what Yoruba spirituality personified as The First Orisha- Obatala who first appeared with white cloths

This is of course my personal understanding of the issue of 'God' many would dismiss this especially those with 'christianised mentality' who believe in a white bearded old man sitting on a throne in the sky.

What is God? In religion(Abrahamic), it/he is the sole creator and sustainer of the world. Pagan spiritualities which are mostly Monotheistic attribute a particular force of Nature and Existence to a God while otherGods have the elements they rule. However contrary to the held belief that God as revealed this to men by books or by descending from heaven to live among men is only a folklore, their holy books are restricted to human knowledge.
Atheist around the world would accuse religion of believing a fantasy, a folklore of no logic or rational reasoning. "There is No God or Gods" is their watchword because there is No proof for such a beast or spirit who talks to humans, reveals books, sits on a throne or commands a battalion of angels and jinns. A God that gives covenant and chats up with humans in human language, A God that sits in the sky throwing down lightening bolts, A God that wears white cloths and gets drunk, A God that comes in human form to die for your sins, A God that is after your soul and would send you to hell if you don't believe a book.
There can never be proof for such a being No matter how far science gets, and that's because Such a God or Gods don't exist.

What is God? God is the creator and sustainer of the universe, from him came everything. He has no creator but is the creator.
In science the entity best described with this is Pure Energy.

I wonder wat bros j looks like abeg help me ask the Arab guy if Jesus is caucasian-like or black. Nd if he has long hair or low cut cause JW people like disturbing me thinking am a Christian that shouldn't keep afro

image what happens to the Igbo and Yoruba pagan Supreme God chukwu and Olodumare respectively?

www.nairaland.com/1576250/prophecy-year-2014

Real prophecy

Pastor Olu T: Who is defending Jesus? U are not being sincere my friend.

Who has ever killed or do anything evil in the name of Jesus before? Bt u sure know all that have been done for the name of Islam. U just shot urself in the leg with this statement 'cos its known fact that no one defend Jesus or xtianity bt u guys do so for Muhammad n Islam, even going to the extend of killing n maiming.

NB I asked a question n none of u guys have been able to answer?

I take it dat you don't know the history of christianity.
Your beloved religion is responsible for the brutal killing of millions of pagans and free-thinkers in old Europe
Evil religion both these two- christianity and Islam

Pastor Olu T: Even if u do not see the point of Jesus, I bet u see all that is happening is just exactly as the bible prophesied long ago!

I thought u said u are a traditional worshiper, how come a Buddhist?

What prophecy? People make prophecies all the time, I make prophecies all time. check my posts I even made one for 2014 which would all come to pass. There's nothing special about prophecies, When you make true prophecies you would know that. Prophecies are normal ish. It's all about 'thinking and visualizing the future' a use of consciousness- this consciousness I always tell you about.


I worship nothing but my consciousness. I Am Yoruba, and am a child of Orunmila but saying I 'worship' is restricting me to religion. And I am not religious(except when it comes to defending my ancestral beliefs). I am just a pagan

Solvik: D̶̲̥̅̊ word of God is as real as U̶̲̥̅̊ being alive. Ά̲̣̣̣̥​п̥̥̲̣̣̣̥​ƌ̲̣̣̣̥ it says, Heaven ά̲̣̣̣̥​п̥̥̲̣̣̣̥​ƌ̲̣̣̣̥ earth shall pass away but his words will never pass away. Ά̲̣̣̣̥​п̥̥̲̣̣̣̥​ƌ̲̣̣̣̥ ȋ̝̊̅̄♌ his word Ђε̲̣̣̣̥ talked about Judgement Day. Please ƅε̲̣̣̣ wise.

And this you read from a book. Pls tell us about novels and comics

akposking: Gej would donate 1b to me and my family.

Be patient and work hard you won't need Gej's donation, instead you would be donating to him and his government

alexdidi: I knw jst 1! Elohim

The Elohim are 'Children of El'
They are numerous pls consult Google on this.
In Canaan, The Elohim are equivalent of Orisha in Yoruba

.

www.nairaland.com/Logicboy03

New year resolution maybe

Redlyn: God didn't have to create us.
He chose to create us in such a manner that would permit some of us to be tormented forever in hell.
I cannot accept a god that would do that. How can this be good and just.
I instead should be the one who is offended that some people believe this.

If you understand what a soul is you won't even believe in hell. Because it doesn't make sense

Image123: Oh, so we'd have to discuss each of the world's religions or something, i dont do gossip and i don't have such time. Hopefully, we are thoroughly clear on the OP. Why don' t we discuss just atheist and christianity, your religion and mine, instead from moving about frm islam to shintoism to hindu? My God is the One who was, and is and is to come. He is the Almighty, not in the museum.

And what if he is into all religions?
You'd better inquire from HS all the questions he asks you

Since your God is all that, address other Gods in other religions that Peter is asking you. Here let me bring more: How about the Igbo God Chukwu?

Gombs: Because Africa is not poor, but Africans has a mentality of poverty... they love money so so much that it has corrupted their minds, and caused them to be wicked.... u see why we need preach the Gospel of Christ everywhere?

Democracy is a good thing, but Africa was not ready for it as at the time it came. Most of the folks in Africa then were illiterate and peasants, and the little educated ones took the whole continent for selfish and evil desires. The Electorate were massively mislead because they knew nothing about anything...and that seed of corruption n wickedness was sown, generations after took up from where their Fathers left off, till it got to a stage where evil was considered good in Africa... wars over nothing nothing, liberia, congo, Sierra Leone, guines, somalia, angola, rwanda, etc... and the rest of the world watched Africa destroy herself....but that was before the gospel was fully out as it is today...if we had the gospel of Christ then as we had today...Africa would have been greater..but the bible says "hope maketh not ashamed- hope does not put us to shame (`Romans 5v5)"...Through prayers and intercession, Africa is rising and the world is watching...Nigeria is springing forth... # Glooooooooooooooooray

The glory of Africa shall be seen as the waters cover the sea

Praise God forever. Op, calm down and rather get on ur knees and pray....if u are an atheist, well...quit whinning and cause a big bang in Africa or an evolution....

Goodnight joor

The people who brought christianity to you are dumping it as it no longer suits their needs.
I just pity your kids because they would really suffer life.
Religion is bad for mental health

BraveGuy: Spot On!!

If there is no God, there is no Hell, no Heaven, no devil and no witch!
Then African rituals that they use in making blood money is a joke.... people that have been kidnapped and used for blood money is a con.... need I say more?

Do you have proof of blood money sacrifice? Have you done it? Was your family member a victim?