₦airaland Forum

okeyxyz: Nice. Every once in a long while, nairaland surprises me by producing a beautiful thread like this one. Welldone @OP. Unfortunately The two idiots above me have already started trolling this thread and causing distractions from learning yoruba tradition/mythology/spirituality/ancestry. Please if you wanna bash christianity(as usual) go create a separate thread instead of digressing this one.

Now I wish somebody would create an igbo version of mythology.

Igbos has it's own creation story, maybe u should learn more about your ethnic group. Africa has a rich culture, and there's so many things Europeans have stolen from us. We must try to know urselves and appreciate our culture.

Maybe when u learn ur creation myth, u can post on NL for us to learn.

Ubenedictus: i think he studied it, he can explain the process and give some incantations. I dont think he is a babalawo

Then it would be nice to have him here. But he hasn't be active on NL for a month now.

Odu Ifa are patterns of binary codes, which represent all of the energies contained in Igba Iwa. The odu themselves are the oracle of the divination system. It is through the Odu-Ifa, that babalawo and iyanifa are able to work with individuals to achieve the greatest potential of their destiny. It is through the Odu Ifa that priests and priestess of Orisa can help people repair their Ori, and better themselves.

The Odu Ifa are like blueprints to all the energies possible in the universe. Each has verses of esoteric knowledge associated with it along with medicines,rituals and sacrifices that accompany each of the 256 Odu

first 16 Odu Ifa
1. Ejiogbe/Ogbe-meji
2. Ejioyeku/Oyeku-Meji
3. Iwori-meji
4. Odi-meji
5. Irosun-meji
6. Owonrin-meji
7. Obara-meji
8. Okanran-meji
9. Ogunda-meji
10. Osa-meji
11. Ejika/Ika-meji
12. Oturupon-meji
13. Otura-meji
14. Ejirete/Irete-meji
15. Ejiose/Ose-meji
16. Ejiofun/Ofun-meji

Ubenedictus: if you wish ti discuss the act of divining, then i advise you invite pastor aio. He knows alot about that aspect

a pastor who is also a babalawo

iamswizz: actually thats how it is

really?! I didn't know. But when have they ever referred to Nigerian music as part of Nollywood

Sylvyangel: 2face is not in nollywood, he is a muxician

in Hollywood the movie and music is merged. So I guess he thought that's how it is in Nollywood

joel lala: Am not an Atheist.

my brother am a christain o..a proud one for that matter.

whether Christian, pagan or atheist we can all see sense in the existence of Olodumare; as folykaze keeps saying, Olodumare is the energy that drives the universe.

Am Tb Joshua

joel lala: where did you get this information from

nowhere in particular, just dat since human life comes from Olodumare, all life whether rats, goats, elephant etc. also come from Olodumare.
I know u are atheist so lemme try to sound as atheistic as I can be, to make u understand better. Olodumare is the source of our souls, the breath of life is the energy that activates the human body, making us a sentient being. It is that same energy that triggers life in animals as well. And even at death, just like the scientific theory that states "energy can neither be created nor destroyed" the soul only changes it's form and goes back to it's source.

FOLYKAZE: Let me get some things correct here. God or No God is buddhism doesn't make it atheistic. There are Gods in buddhism like in Ifa. Traditionally yes
but according to the Buddha, believe-in is not the right word to use. Buddhism recognizes there are different living beings (life forms) and some of them are gods, divines, deities, etc. In the Buddhist language, they are called differently as they are also many kinds and have different places of their own. These deities in my opinion are best understood metaphorically, basically everything else the Buddha taught was taught using metaphors.
Yama the God of Death, Mara the tempter deity....Deva in sanskrit means a god/demigod (Like an angel or something). Brahmā, Asura, Śakra, Yaksha, Sariputta, Tara, Kwan Yin and many other Gods are found in Buddhism. Asura means Demons, naraka (hell) and nirvana (heaven).

Moreover in Ifa there are Gods but are metaphoric. In yoruba spirituality, the term believe is not really essential. They are there like the sun which you dont need believe in.

- Eledumare means infinite consciousnes, totality of energies and forces that therein in the universe. It doesn't have problem with you or concerned with you. You are microcosm of the whole and God of yourself. Only those who understand their 'me' and 'me-ness' grap this.

Ogun in the scientific worldview is a chemical element called Iron. Relating it oriki and scientific knowledge about it shows this is what it is. Monsters not attached.

Sango is electric energy. The metaphoric poem about it relates to it energetic nature and humanic nature. The human Sango was the vessel for energetic electric force which mastered and manifested the power of electric and forming lightening in his days. A typical lightning bolt contains 1 billion volts and contains between 10,000 to 200,000 amperes of current. Relating science to it metaphor shows it energy and not monsters.

Eshu is intuition. No voodoo included.

Orisa is selected consciousness among the infinite body of consciousness.

Orisha practise is not about worshipping God/Gods but awareness and recognizing those energies (Gods). This pave way to this saying 'ori eni la ba bo, aba fi orisa sile' meaning we are entitled to admire our consciousness and should have ignore orisa.

This and many Gods in Yoruba are not walking, talking and angry monsters. This apply to Devas in Buddhism. Sango is not asking anybody to worship it nor Devas needs your worship. I agree buddhism and Ifa went a step further where it meet religion....thats where temple, shrine, rituals and praying comes in. All the way, both spiritual path are same.

If western atheist can breaks into the metaphoric nature of Devas, whats wrong about African atheist to breaks into metaphoric nature of Orisha? Why cant I hijack Orisa practises from those who are ignorant about it that demonize it or turn it to Anthropomorphical God?

Let me ask you, if buddhism is atheistic in it concept, what happen to Ifa with it concept?

sorry, I was not suppose to use the words "don't recognise". Cause they actually recognise spiritual forces(gods) but buddhists don't worship them.


If anyone can find atheistic reasoning in Buddhism, u can find just as much in Ifa studies.

plaetton: Spirituality and religion are not the same thing.

Spirituality is very subjective, whereas religion makes the grave eror of trying to push the subjective outwards into objective reality. That is why religion doesn't make sense.

As an atheist, I am free to embrace spirituality without self-contradiction because I am fully cognizant that my spiritual reality can only be real to me and only me.
Outside of my head, it is just rubbish.

That is what I try to impress upon religious people: That the god, the Jesus, the holy spirit that they claim to see, hear and feel , have no reality outside of their heads.

A good example is when A pastor says "the holy spirit just told me". I mean thats just foolish talk. what ever information u think the so-called holy spirit revealed is simply ur imagination, ur brain playing tricks on u, since u already believe there's such an thing as holy spirit that reveals things. What u believe becomes ur own reality.

Ajibam: Satan didn't open their eyes, the fruit did

who wanted them to eat the fruit? u owe ur intelligence to the devil

Buddhism doesn't recognize God or any spiritual being, It all about trying to be vindicated from the suffering of this world.

Buddha taught about striving to live a moral life by being mindful of ur actions and thoughts to achieve wisdom and understanding.

Buddhists strive to attain true happiness as the world is Hell itself

Every Buddhist strives to be like The buddha who gained enlightenment after connecting with his inner consciousness through meditations and other mediums.

Buddist do not care about material things, most buddhist are what u would call poor, because they find no use for theses things because it doesnt guarantee happiness and peace of mind

Buddhist are seekers of Knowledge and peace, trying to make the world a better place. that is why u can never hear of forced or compelled conversion, wars or discrimination in areas where Buddhism prevails. (afterall wisdom is not for everybody)

Buddhism is not science, but it deals with the main purpose of science which is knowledge, theories, and above all making the world a better place.

Buddhist believe in the law of karma(not as a spiritual concept but natural law of actions with consequences)

Its no wonder Atheist are fans of Buddhism, it supports their course

Ifa recognize forces that drives nature

Ifa also teaches the importance of good character

Ifa preaches that the most important thing to us is our consciousnesses and subconsciousness

Ifa teaches that connecting with ur subconscious makes life easy and the road to achieving ur destiny is smooth

Ifa to a large degree is science because it is all about gaining knowledge of everything knowledgeable

Ifa tells the truth using symbolism, it is left to u to interpret and understand its use of symbolism

Ifa however isnt into any known/recognised scientific method of discovering knowledge. Ifa is on its own league

Ajibam: Dressing was normal before but Satan impersonated it to fashion to lure youth to hell..
music was use to praise God but Satan impersonated it to worldly songs that will give honor to his name...

Christians and their talk about evil/satan everywhere u forget that Adam and Eve were naked but the devil opened their eyes, so now its that same devil that is closing their eyes

joel lala: The spirit in dogs, goat,camel, rats etc are they the same spirit in the body of man since you said that the spirit takes any physical form that it wants?

different spirits from the same source

Life is nothing without God(Olodumare). Olodumare is the source of life

COMMON REASONS FOR CONSULTING IFA
Ifa divination (also called consultation) is performed for many proposes and a host of occasions, the purposes and occasions is what determines the instrument used in the divination sessions. Divination is often performed for lesser reasons such as "regular check up" to life-changing occasions such as marriage or child birthing etc., divination can also be performed for a group (small / large) or community (the first examples are more likely for a person, couple, parents or family). On occasion when it is performed for the community or society it takes on another significance.
• Annual Divination for the New Year - one occasion where a major divination is performed and the ranking Ifa initiate are present to witness and partake. This is called the divination of the new year, which is also sometimes referred to as the First Yam Festival (for ancient annual agricultural cycles). The results of such a divination will be discussed and analyzed by the Ifa initiates, shared with the Ooni (Custodian of Yoruba Culture, tradition and religion), and shared with the extended community. To read more about the governing Odu for 2012 & 2013, click here. Some teach that the youngest awo ( or newest initiate ) serves as the spokesman of the divining counsel.
• Establishing a new town or settlement, is another reason Ifa is cast to know more about that towns living principals and parameters etc. An example can be found in IrosunMeji.
• Mate selection - (or courting) a potential partner, several examples will be posted shortly.
• Esentaye (new born baby rites) - Also called Ikosedaye, is another major occasion to consult Ifa for direction and advice on the child's destiny and taboos
• Burial rites
• Planning a new business or enterprise etc. and/or starting a new job
• Moving to a new location and/or purchasing a home

INSTRUMENT FOR IFA DIVINATION
a group of sixteen Ikin, commonly known as sacred palm nuts, which are used to create ancient binary data
Dust from the Irosun tree (Iyerosun)
a vessel for the seeds (Ajere Ifa)
a divination tray (Opon Ifa).
a tapper instrument (Iroke Ifa)
a fly whisk (Irukere Ifa)
another form of divination is with the Opele (divining chain), though Ikin is considered superior

MamiWata: Oyinbo please know I'm Beninese. Good day.

really? a yoruba beninese

Mintayo: There is a level you will be with God,when the Holy Spirit begin His work with you,when the Spirit of truth begins to show you the mind of God,then all this desires to please the flesh will go and vanish.
We all need to submit ourselves to the Spirit of God so that He will lead us in the way to go.
God's standard stand sure,He will not lower His standard for anybody.
Fashion,entertainment,music are the tools the devil use today to trap people and turn their heart away from God.
Let us search the heart of God and let the Holy Spirit lead us into the truth.

so fashion, entertainment and music are bad

FOLYKAZE: I appreciate the fact that you dont know much about Ifa. I dont know much too. Nobody knows everything about ifa. It a continuous education that can take life time and might not been acquired till death. I agree the Babalawo have more knowledge about it than we do....i just want you to understand that the 16 corpus of Ifa and those Odu we learnt are just peripherial aspect.

PERMIT ME CORRECT TO SOME MISTAKES YOU MAKE ON SUPERNATURAL IN IFA

1. There is nothing invisible to Ifa. Maybe supernatural to you is something you dont understand. I think when you know the procedure of practising Ifa, it become more like practise and skill to you. Here are my thoughts on yoruba spirituality....

Eledumare = El' (body or owner) + Odu (intelligence) + mare (infinity) which mean the body of infinity intelligence/consciousness. So Eledumare is totality of forces, energies and all that therein in the universe. No skydaddy attached to this. Eledumare is universe itself.

Orisa = Ori (consciousness) + sa (selected) which mean selected consciousness among the infinity consciousness....ELEDUMARE. It not necessary for you to select them. Remember 'ori eni lo ye ka bo, aba fi orisa sile'? Meaning our consciousness is more essential than those selected ones. There is nothing like demons, monsters or supernatural attached to this.

Irunmole are Spiral energies.

Orun is sky/space not heaven where sky daddy live.

Orunmila is the convex of awakeness, intelligence, knowledge and insight. This is a special form of energy within us....well I agree allegory were attached to it and it was personify but I think our ancestors did that to simplify and understand this energy among themselves. No monster attached to it.

Ifa then is a special and esoteric body of knowledge which aids spiritual connection with Eledumare and interact with Irunmoles. Ifa is the knowledge and understanding of spirituality of Orisha practice with spiritual calculations that bring and interpret message, warning, solutions, advise from spirits..... Nothing like supernatural attached. When you are initiated, divination will be more like skills.

2. It more like google..... There is a saying that Ifa dont lie or say deceit. It is the corpus song the babalawo sing to it that it reveal. Just like google search engine, when you search for 'kimbet', you will have result for that....what you search for is what you got.... Same apply to Ifa. There is no supernatural thang here.

3. True.... Despite, Eledumare is not supernatural. Orunmila is not supernatural. Same thing with Ifa.

4. True.

There is nothing bad accepting that you know something happen but do not know how, why, what or reason why such thing happened. I encourage open minded into everything and questioning everything. If by saying Ifa is supernatural to mean....'it really amazing, whao but I dont know whats behind it', i tend to agree with you but I dont seem to embrace attachment of Monster and demon to our ignorance. The more we seek and walk through, the more we know. So I think walking and seeking should be essential.

Let me ask, have you ever seen babalawo divining and have you really been amazed at the way they touch issues and problems? Can you share it here?

Unfortunately I have never seen a babalawo divining, I have actually been looking forward to that but I've been in Abuja ever since I fully went back to my ancestry and I doubt if there are active babalawos here.

I have seen only Ogun and Osun ritual ceremonies.

FOLYKAZE: Some atheist are self-hating folks.

Logicboy had been posting his support for buddhism.....calling it atheistic, philosophical and no religion attached but barks at me when I embrace Ifa. More and more of his like on this forum.

I really admire ur way of atheism. I am religious but despite that I support atheism to some degree.
Ifa asks us to seek knowledge any how we can. Atheism is actually suppose to be freedom and self independence. Away from all sorts of mental corruption and seeking natural/logical explanation bringing about knowledge

nnofaith: lol! you are so pathetic. you are crying cos i mocked your gods. manup lad!

u can't mock my gods, they mock u for ur self imposed mental slavery and lack of wisdom

Ekennovative: 1 Peter 3:3-4
New International Version (NIV)

3 Your beauty should not come from outward
adornment, such as elaborate hairstyles and
the wearing of gold jewelry or fine clothes.

4 Rather, it should be that of your inner self,
the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet
spirit, which is of great worth in God’s sight.

that doesn't mean u should make ur outward look ugly

FOLYKAZE: @ OP

Pls what is supernatural in Ifa divination?

foly am not a babalawo or in any awo cult so I honestly don't know a lot about Ifa. But wat I do know is dat Ifa is a way of helping humans to achieve their destiny. U can't go wrong wit Ifa
And these Babalawos have gone through a lot of training, their ability to memorize that much odu verses is simply awesome.

The supernatural aspect of Ifa
1. The fact that the powers behind it are not visible and it makes u wonder how Ifa has been able solve problems and give priceless advise to people of different situations over the last few thousands of years.

2. The omnisense of Ifa

3. Ifa is the true word of Olodumare as interpreted by Orunmila

4. Ifa is about spiritual awareness, it prescribes Spiritual solutions, and narrates spiritual experiences

I really don't understand how some Africans can be so dumb and stupid and still be happy with such low life state

InesQor: (A) Yes, this is actually another way that people look at it: Olodumare, the creator, has two manifestations Olorun and Olofin.

(B) Yet some others say Olodumare (the Supreme God) has 3 manifestations: Olodumare (the creator), Olorun and Olofin.

Worldview B seems a bit ambiguous because Olodumare refers both to the Supreme God and also to the creator God. Like, the creator God is just ONE part of the entire supreme God. However, it is usually the more common view. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olorun

One may ask, but didn't Obatala create human beings? Not exactly. He created their human bodies, and Olodumare breathed life into the bodies.

In either case, it is believed that is impossible to approach Olodumare directly with our normal human psyche because he is an impersonal God. This is why in the Yoruba religion Olodumare is not usually worshipped directly. Instead, the Orishas are the conduit through which Olodumare is reached by Yoruba worshippers.

I would always prefer to accept the A. B is downgrading to his majesty Olodumare(since I think Olodumare is an evolved being comprising of both Olorun and Olofin)

FOLYKAZE: Thanks for the token bro.

I think he is right at some point but considering that most atheist on this forum embrace buddhism and support it philosophy over it religion aspect.

Those most atheist on this forum trashed philosophy, culture, spirituality and tradition which belong to their race as Africa and tribe as either yoruba, igbo or hausa.

Have been hearing that Africans are the greatest enemy of Africa. I see Africans embracing anything foreign but trashing what on their land.

This is kolo mentality

as it seems Christianity and Islam isn't the only medium to self hate

InesQor: Maferefun Olodumare
Oyigiyigi (The steadfast, unmovable, great and mighty one)
Oba ti gbobo oba nt’owo re gb’ase (The king from whom all kings take directives)
Olorun Agbalagba (The ancient of days)
Adagba ma paaro oye (Unchanging God)
Okan titi aye ainipekun (The same forever)
Onibuore (The benevolent one, whose barns are full of blessing)
Atogbojule (Dependable God)
Oludariji (The forgiving one)
Olutusile (God of freedom)

Maferefun loosely means "in the praise of", and is used when one offers praises, adoration (or even adulation) to a deity in the Yoruba religion. In the above, I have offered praise to Olodumare, the creator. Olodumare is one of the manifestations or expressions of the SUPREME GOD. The other two manifestations are Olorun (God of the heavens) and Olofin (God who connects heaven and earth, and who permeates all, and is all and is in all.)

I always thought Olofin and Olorun are manifestations of Olodumare. Olodumare being the complete form of both

mikeansy: I will accept whatever the outcome of everyone else after the SNC whether it is confedracy or split or unitary Nigeria

My personal preference is confedracy or devolved system of Government because I want the various section to govern themselves and determine their own destiny but still have access to the single market. Then again ECOWAS could still provide this single market.

But there are many benefits I see in moving towards a devolved system of Government within a UNITED NIGERIA.

People need to stop getting scared because Nigeria does not have to split in order to make progress. Let the conference begin

Nigeria can never be united. We shouldn't deceive ourselves. We were not made to co-exist with each other like u are wishing for.