absoluteSuccess: We learn by sharing experience. So knowledge is education, drawing out of experiencie.
Thanks to Chief S.O Bada of blessed memory. His work 'Owe Yoruba ati isedale won' published around 1902 or so featured Iseri, where the proverb says "Ki'seri to d'omo oba, ojuri".
This makes Iseri a prince. However, Iseri in Yoruba oral record has to do with the Awori or Egba who claimed to have come from Iseri. Whoever the Yoruba candidate, he's a prince later in life.
Israel is a name derived from the encounter of the patriarch of the country so named with a name changing experience making him a prince later in life. Which presage the other?
Seir is the name from the county of Edom rooted in the meaning same as Israel, meaning "the prince". Mount seir is a landmark and Seir also represent Osiris, the prince of the gods of Egypt.
The Awori variant cames with the Yoruba as the name of the Mariners that fostered the Yoruba folks. This is as it is said "Iseri Oloko". Iseri, the Voyagers. Omo oloko nile iseri..
The Yoruba evolved from the Sea people.
Iseri in Yoruba means "originating on river". So, the Yoruba originated on rivers (omo oluwe wun ejigiri sise, ise lafi dale Ife). The Yoruba were thus scions of the ancient divers who had mastered the sea about 3000 years ago.
But since the "original origin" trace back to Iseri, we only have to look for a place so called beyond the waters. What if that place no longer exists, record will. but is there any record?
Yes, it's either Israel or Seir, better if both connects.
The rule here is simple: transliteration, the Yoruba picked the name from an actual place and that's why it could still be retained in her language for countless years in almost the way it sounds.
Such will validate the "meaningfulness" of oral record regardless of whose ox is gored. So it's no longer guesswork when a place is mentioned. What you do is verify, check out other clues.
Clutters and Clues
Were there other clues that we are getting at something? Yes, there's Iseri Olofin and there's Olofin Ado.
Aluf was the title of the Duke of Edom: the word have lingered on ever since it's coinage to mean "leader", 'first', etc. This particular word exist in different form and all had a tale to tell.
Aluf is akin to Alufa in Yoruba, which is what it used to be to the ancients. That is, teacher of the law. Aluf also became the first letter Alif, with Greco-Roman alpha[beth], Hebrew Aleph, and Yoruba Alefa, the Caliph with the Arab..
In modern times, alpha has returned to the mainstream as alpha male.
Aluf, Alif, Alaafin, Olofin, Alpha, Alufa, Alefa, Onifa, Aleph, Caliph were all spurned from Edom for the Duke. You can't separate the Yoruba variants from the flux of ideas provided it ever existed and not forged ad-hoc.
I decided to just provide you with the clutters and clues here as my laptop crashed on Saturday. You should have read it in my intended response to Olu, which clarify the Ado/Edo/Edom/Esan/Esau connection. Using wife's fone, already pestering lol.
Ibini
The name ibini is beautiful and revealing. It has Yoruba meaning. It connotes a birth order of a sort. We have clues to this in the saying "Ara ibini arokuntayo". That line is reserved for the bini on Lagos island.
The name ibini means 'the first born'. Ibini, ibeji, ibeta etc. With that understanding at the background, Ara ibini arokuntayo tayo means "brethren of the first born, who strains the womb to break out.
Ibini should remind us of Aluf, meaning first. That's what Olofin Ado seek to achieve. "Aluf Ad" AlfuAd. Ad is Arabic for first. KulhuAllahu Adun, Allahu samad. Waidun is Arabic for first, which is akoko in Yoruba.
How does that have any bearing on ibini? The proverb says "ile akoko latii gbedo" so, it's in the home of the akoko that we pick Edo language". Akoko were Edo. Akoko covertly means first. Akoko helps confirm that Ibini means first.
How about the twins stuff? It's much as we have it in Yoruba. Odion, odiyan one who prefer pounded yam. Akere, one who claimed the blessings so to speak.
Obalufon: All you know is big grammar . you are not giving any fact to buttress your point here ...That is reason i want to know why is hard for you to believe middle asian migrated into yorubaland .If Europe could have indo Aryan migration from India ,why do you think is impossible for Hebrew to migrate here...Who are the ,beriberi ..bariba, senegal, hausa ,fulani soninke,dogon, bornu...
Smh. Every post from this one is just senseless I'll do you the honor however by just addressing two points
1. Even though it is quite off topic,.. Where did you learn Europe is populated by Indo Aryans? Do you even know what Indo Aryan is?
2. Why is it hard to believe Arabs and Hebrews migrated to Yorùbáland you ask? Simply, no evidence nor logical basis that this claim can stand on
The rest of your post is just utter nonsense really
nlPoster: I did not say Yoruba migration started from the mid east.
Neither did I say anything else you posted.
I'm simply looking at the possibility of the narrative there is middle eastern influence in Yoruba ancestry.
It in no way negates other theories you might have regarding ancient migration patterns in west Africa?
You said claims of Yoruba migration from the middle East is not far fetched. You gave reasons why it is possible like ancient times filled with events of human migration. So yes I am aware of your stand
Everything I posted was in perfect reaction to your statement. That's the problem with assumptions, you are quick to stand back once a real discussion emerged out of your statement
Olu317: Defend what I posted . Instead, vulgar statement from you. I caught you with facts.
Olu317: You're always without sense of fact. Proof yourself with written works to contradict the reality that there people that came together as Yoruba are one stock. Olodo. Abibu Oluiwa came from Ilorin as one of the pioneer of Sakara music originators. Please let this mumuship stop because Ilorin as a Yoruba land isn't different from Ileife. Kindly Google who and who are Ilorin indigenous people and who came to settled down in late 17th century and early 18th century ? Olodo forming intellectual!
Why are you running away from the text from Suzanne Blier's article and its implications for your claims? Clown. Imagine posting an article as if it defends any of your claims Ah! These guys are criminal minded to the bone
Obalufon: What is wrong with Middle eastern migration ...Have you heard of Aryan race ?... Even European embrace their Aryan race migration from Northern India ...You are bent on Bantu origin ..
. A pity there is such a human being as unintelligent and lacking in the very basic of comprehension skills as yourself
What is wrong with middle eastern migration into Yorùbáland is same as what is wrong with talking about East Asian migration into Yorùbáland No evidence! No basis by which this claims can stand
I am not here to discuss 18th century flawed racial classification
Nowhere have I stated the Yoruba have a bantu origin, you keep saying I do but probably just your crazy mind conjuring illusions
I have asked Olu to allow everyone to air their view and also dealt a good hand on misconception of Sahara that your friend peddled around here with higher claims that's terrific and personal.
We learn everyday. No knowledge is lost.
Knowledge is meant to be acquired in the details of every wondrous idea that struck the mind. Not just in a "proper intellectual environment". The man who invented the clandestine bulb failed to attain such pedestal. But today, we have light.
I never dream of making it in a proper intellectual environment where your ilks come from fella, where your sweetest word is neurotic: I believe you made it there hence you were posted here.
God. How many years have you known me? Where have I challenged you once save in a thread I made solely for that purpose years ago? How often have you been on my matter?
Your first post here was on my thread since 2prexios (2012 or so) and you never tired nor ran me out of idea on the same topic. What else do you want I should to have me susceptible to your scrutiny?
The irony is that the you who recently descended on the bible that represent a fraction of world history is coming out to save the world history all over again.
You are the mockery of the true world history pal. Your order is sanitizing world history, the new world order. You are an agent here deployed to put this order in place, and I happened to be a fomidable foe.
That's not fault, buddy, don't think you are brilliant. You are just smart. My claims can be falsefy if any idea I insinuated about a given word can be proven wrong,
That's scientific method of checking out the accuracy of any given claim, not "faultfinding" that you just reveal to be your article in trade.
Thanks, you found me to be a menace and Hebrew wannabe .Everyone might come to know me for that too as much as I care. They shouldn't confuse me as one of your followers. I should have my unique identity here too.
That faultline has been your strength and argument for years and you can't tell me to continue to struggle with you to make a point. Akii moya oso j'oso lo. You cant be privy of my root better than I do.
Already you have a Messianic complex with your world history cum Yoruba history to which your monicker stand to guard lest there be a flux in human population at a time beyond your factual history or all knowing education.
Your factual history is faulty being history in the first place, your factual history should be a called current affairs, not history. If you have figured it out perfectly, not missing a point, you are a time-traveller and a telepathy historian.
No time has passed you by in foundation of Yoruba/world civilization, no knowledge will survive your scutiny except yours, and for that token, you will always have "the fact" for the kind of person you've claimed yourself to be.
But mind you, you cannot goad someone more intelligent than you, but you will only be a waste of time and resources as usual. Your fact coming after another person's idea is an ad-hoc fact, you ought to pre-empt the person in the first place.
Agent macof.
More painful outcry. Rather than cry over being called out when you say nonsense like Edo is Edomite or Deborah is Ẹbọra or Aramean is Ọranmiyan or Ibẹru is Hebrew, you ought to have given yourself proper education that would equip you in the field of history you want to dive into just like I and many others who find history worthwhile did.
All you have is imagination not knowledge No knowledge revealed to you that Iṣẹri is Israel
I don't claim to know all but when one possess some degree of knowledge on a topic it would be easy to identify nonsense. This lamentation is just an eyesore to read, when you begin to practically beg to be left alone to continue your menace rather than do the right thing
PS. About the Bible thing you brought up again, I already mentioned a few biblical scholars who declared the bible to be a questionable historical text
But you aren't a historian but a content creator, creating historical fantasy trying to pass it off as History to make it sell better. You are just trying to make a buck You are no better than a quack doctor using cutlass and hammer in the hospital
I said exactly what I mean, which is I don't think middle eastern migration theories are too far fetched.
Yes, even though Yorubas are black and negroid/negro.
true
No argument there.
It's possible, I'm not saying it was impossible?
Your analogy is a false or misleading one because the two situations (Yoruba versus Europe migration) aren't the same.
Looking at facts:
Ancient Africa did not have the geographical and political fault lines of modern times
Movement of people was common
People would most likely migrate along established routes and knowledge at that time. Have you found out what those established routes were? The atlantic was not necessarily a more convenient option than land crossings. So moving southwards did not have to involve ships and could be done on foot albeit over a long distance.
With the arrival of Europeans in the 15th century or so, migration routes started to change to sea based instead of mostly land based. This is a common sense inference.
Yoruba would not have been a closed society where no immigration was possible. Nothing suggests this.
Lets try to go with logic here and resolve this with common sense
Movement of people is still common today, has always been and would always be. That is why the factors I mentioned and so many more unmentioned are critical before coming to conclusions, reason why you couldn't address the analogy I made
At best what you have done there is to assume that human nature of moving around automatically means Yoruba could have come from the middle East How about the people of the middle East could have come from West Africa? By what formula did you arrive at the conclusion that the middle East is the start of any such migration if such migration even existed between the middle East and West Africa. And why the middle East? Migration in ancient times only involved the middle East? People did not migrate within Africa?
nlPoster: I edited your quoted post because I don't think a Yoruba middle eastern link is too far fetched.
It was ancient times, there was no doubt a lot of migration.
There are many theories of origin, including Egyptian, etc.
. There are many theories of origin... All of which have been put through scrutiny and all failed to stand the very basic levels of historical scrutiny
You are simply trying to be careful here, best you let out exactly what you mean. A lot of migration in ancient times can mean anything And there are several factors to be considered from time length of migration, to migration pattern to size of migration and so much more
You seem to want to suggest that middle eastern people migrated into Yorùbáland. Whether I agree or not is largely insignificant right now but the aforementioned factors are obviously not considered. So let me use this analogy : There has been an increased number of middle eastern migrants in Europe. So therefore Europeans are from the middle East?
Olu317: olodo lasan! What exactly do you want me to address again? ....Abeg stop quoting me anymore without scholarly references because you're intellectually dehydrated. .
The post you woefully replied to. Your reply was utterly off topic This is ultimately what you get when you didn't go to school
scholarly references. Oh Jeez You just pulled that out of nowhere This guy is a real clown
How do people even measure degree of Yorubaness sef?
I once opened a thread for people who are half Yoruba, the phrase itself sounded so odd and awkward (I myself felt out of sorts), it wasnt long before the topic was deleted, I'm not even sure it was up to an hour.
Ultimately I do not mean to measure anybody's degree of yorubaness on a faceless forum. But let's be straight, no Hebrew wannabe would tell me I am not yoruba for not wanting to be Hebrew.. Not when no Yoruba educated in the Yoruba way would want to be Hebrew in the first place
That is a cheap and cowardly scheme they resort to in attempt to "disqualify" you from discussing Yoruba history anytime they have nothing to say or they just rant and go off topic and hope you would leave them alone
absoluteSuccess: There are three functions of knowledge: to establish fact, to find fault and to identify fallacy. Fact is constant, fault is variable and fallacy is temporal. The attributes of fact is that it is self-sufficient, it does not wait on any accessory to be established.
On the other hand, fault finding is not a constant and as such insufficient. It waits on the accessories of or availability of fact to fault or fallacy to fault. Fault finding cannot function on its own except there were principles, fallacies or ordinances to investigate.
Fallacy however is temporal; it is borne out of the need to interpret cause and effect from the myopic angle of the observer from a contemporary accessory at his own disposal, which is not verifiable in any other source.
Fact finding is an exclusive reserve of the great men of understanding. Fault finding is for the smart folks who have to check for the faultline in a fact they became privy of through the great men of understanding. Fallacy is the preoccupation of men of average intelligence.
A man whose preoccupation is fault finding with bitterness is smart but not brilliant. Such attitude generate only strife, and gainsaying that eventually reduce their rank to "the fallacy of men of average intelligence".
A man stuck to fault finding has achieved his pedestal in the progress of knowledge, to always circle around the same orbit without ability to break from the vicious circle of self indulged ignorance for knowledge.
Fault finding is not to be mistaken as fact finding: fact is self-sufficient, you find your fact independent of available accessories with the resources at your disposal. But fault finding is lurking around for any contractor to fault.
Fault finding cannot establish fact, it looks only for “what’s wrong”, not “what’s right”. It often results in gainsaying. It is a process which often condemns the work for the creator.
The merit however is when the fault finder is also a fact finder, a fact plus a fact makes more fact, a fact plus a fallacy makes new fact, a fact plus a fault with alternative means improvement.
A fact plus a fault without an alternative leaves you with a choice between fact, fallacy or gainsaying.
@macof, you are not a fact finder but fault finder.
This is a mere painful outcry of a person who can't defend his ludicrous claims. You can't make it in a proper intellectual environment where you would be put through rigorous process of scrutiny You would rather nobody challenges you and allow you run a mockery of yoruba history in particular and World history in general... You are a menace
If you don't have any faults, there won't be any faults to find Mr. Hebrew wannabe Seek your healing and do the right thing and stop trying to weasle out of the needful.
Btw, just to tackle your accusations.. I dish out facts on a steady on this forum Everyone knows my moniker represents that
Olu317: Ever since you seem not to understand things easily but quickly to surf the web for information so as counter me ,which, make me see that you're bound to have problem with your quick approach. .Therefore, I intend to expose your lies because Social scientists have noted that certain parameters help to define individual or group identity. These parameters include religion, nationalism, ethnicity and language. They constitute in part or in whole, some of the processes involved in identity formation (Capozza & Brown 2000; Castells 2004). Studies have, however, shown that the parameters for defining identity are in a sense open-ended and context-based (Olojede 2008:. Adetugbo (1973:182) states that, “The belief that is current among the Yorùbá is that they migrated to their present home from somewhere in the Middle East or Lower Egypt in different waves between the seventh and eleventh centuries A.D.” It is generally an either/or situation (e.g. Johnson’s Egypt/Nubia and Biobaku’s Egypt/beyond theories).
Therefore the migration narratives will therefore be considered in the light of the elements of identity formation, in which Talbot (1926) and even Johnson, who after disputing the Mecca theory, argues that the Yorùbá probably emigrated from Upper Egypt to Ilé-Ife. His evidence includes the sculptures known as Ife marbles and the ‘Phoenician’ characters on opá rànmíyàn, an ancient granite obelisk over 18ft high at If (Johnson 1921:6). In addition to this, various other traditions claim that the Yorùbá originated from the east of the Niger (cf. Bowen 1968:266), from the Sudan, parts of Asia (cf. Lucas 1948:15), from across a big river (Beier 1955b:19) or from a far country (Farrow 1926:21). Beier (1955a:26) also attempts to prove that the Nupe country was one of the stages of the Yorùbá migration. Karin Barber also who remarked that, ‘origin is the foundation of identity (1991:136)'. Thus, for the Yorùbá, who speak a common language (with many variants), the traditions of common origin function as a symbol of identity and the two elements common to the traditions of origin and the migration theories above are Ile-Ife and Odùdùwà( funlola olojede)
1. Oduduwa was foreign to Ilé-Ifè ?
Answer:
a. There was no Ileife before the arrivalof these foreigners because, On historical connection, Burns (1972: p. 120) explains that before the first settlers of Yoruba stock at Ile-Ife led by Oduduwa, there was a black tribe called Negro, which was small in number but these emigrants (The Yoruba) later dominated this tribe with their language and culture.
b. It has been stated times without numbers that Oduduwa migration, is the best known in tradition. It arose from the pressure which the incursion of the Arabs into the Sudan exercised upon remnants of the Yoruba and must have taken place towards the end of the 10th century A.D. The people who resisted all-conquering Islam found a great leader in Oduduwa (a leader later deified in tradition) and left their homes in search of a place where they could practise their traditional religion in safety ( THE PATTERN OF YORUBA HISTORY by Sabiru Biobaku. p.64,65).
c. Even among present-day scholars of Yoruba religion such as Idowu (p. 23) and Awolalu (p. 27) see the city of Ileife as developing its political and religious primacy as a result of the arrival of a militarily powerful group of foreigners who were part of a distant branch of the Yoruba people. Unfortunately the name of the leader of this group is not known, because in the accounts his identity is subsumed by that of his patron deity, Odudua. At the time of the arrival of this outsider and his party, Ife was occupied by an indigenous people who were under the leadership of a hunter named Ore (Oreluere). Not surprisingly, the original inhabitants of Ife do not appear to have supported this foreigner, ‘Odudua,' in his attempts to gain control of the city. This foreign ruler was, however, by all accounts a strong and politically effective leader.
2. Ife had people already settled and established
Answer: a. Yes, (Abimbola p.c., Lawal p.c., Awolalu 1979:26).These Ife area had autochthonous families, many of whom were forced out of the city by members of the new Odudua dynasty.(Art Bulletin by Susan Blier).
3. Oduduwa and his party married into the local population
Answer: Yes, they did married local women.In Art Bulletin, Susan Blier says ‘Not surprisingly, the orig- inal inhabitants of Ife do not appear to have supported this foreigner, "Odudua," in his attempts to gain control of the city. This foreign ruler was, however, by all accounts a strong and politically effective leader. One of his most important decisions was to establish a series of marriage alliances with the local populace. Accordingly, both he and his party mar- ried indigenous women "of the land," in order to create a new generation of Ife residents who, in Idowu's words (p. 24), "... . would be at home in both worlds . . . people who were without bitterness towards either of the opposing parties." In the course of these marriages, the new ruler fa- thered a number of children, many of whom eventually set out to found their own dynasties in other Yoruba states.
Note: Henceforth, if you support your information with both local and foreign (western) scholarly reference, then don't quote me again because you are intellectually inconsistent.
Smh. Still ranting without actually addressing the post
Olu317: Slow indeed! and as usual no better way to posit view but assumption; olodo . I know you will fall for this trap because of the following reasons:
1. The Yoruba language does not exist in West Africans lexicons and it has been established that the language of Africa is unguardedly lumped together, which the origin is established by By JOSEPH H. GKEENBERG: THE CLASSIFICATION OF AFRICAN LANGUAGES,and buttress by Al Ilori and I that it is a Semitic language for the reason being that Baalé, Ara, Oba, ba,Aba,Baba, la/lo(law), Mobo,bo,kara,sanra etc dont exist in other than the language of the teacher's language of Semitic origin as English language is in modern day Nigeria which is spoken by Yorubas only.
2. The 11th,12th, Yoruba ancestors sculpture on human's copper heads or terracotta heads, of ram's head work didn't exist in West Africa even up till date. Later works on were basically West Africa
3. Solely bloodline based on kingly and not priests lineage can rule as established by Ooni; Oshin.
4. In fact, it was one the written evidence that the original ancestor name is not know
5. That are are people who don't use facial Marks are new people who took over the place they now called Ileife.
6. That the Opa Oranmiyan written ideograms can't be interpreted but scholars maintained that Yod and resh are identified with the Ivory
7. That there is no proof within the same Yoruba enclave of distance place of origin can be identified with the place of the foreign Yoruba distance family apart from Oyo Ile that he came from. And Oyo ile was founded by who ?
8. That Opa Ogun obelisk also exist as considered as having its origin in near east because the close cognate and all the attributes adduce to the name exist in Near East.
9.That the name of Hebrew God is the same as God in Yoruba's God
10. That it is established that these same different Group of Yorubas married the local to be part of they to be accepted as part of them
11. That Ora and the Yoruba language of Ifaodu place of origin can't be pinned down because the true place of origin is lost.
12. That even a well known professor ,known as Professor Saburi Biobaku( as a Dr. , then ) , authored a book : PATTERN OF YORUBA HISTORY, affirmed that the origin of Yoruba were claimed to be from Near East . So, Oga,stop this your pathetic woe,because I know Susan Blier before your assumption of introducing her to me or whatever cheap popularity you dim fit to achieve because her interpretation of the excavated heads are not in conformity with What some of those heads meant.
Please stick to the topic
This comment of yours is not a reply to my post at all
You are just ranting. Stick to addressing the post
Olu317: Yes, they came with their language. Read from:
Kings, Crowns, and Rights of Succession: Obalufon Arts at Ife and Other Yoruba Centers Suzanne Preston Blier ....
She says, ‘Not surprisingly, the orig- inal inhabitants of Ife do not appear to have supported this foreigner, "Odudua," in his attempts to gain control of the city.20 This foreign ruler was, however, by all accounts a strong and politically effective leader. One of his most important decisions was to establish a series of marriage alliances with the local populace. Accordingly, both he and his party mar- ried indigenous women "of the land," in order to create a new generation of Ife residents who, in Idowu's words (p. 24), "... . would be at home in both worlds . . . people who were without bitterness towards either of the opposing parties." In the course of these marriages, the new ruler fa- thered a number of children, many of whom eventually set out to found their own dynasties in other Yoruba states. On "Odudua's" death, one of his sons, Obalufon I (Og- bogbodirin), succeeded him to the throne. Obalufon I's reign appears to have been beset with problems. Unlike his father, "Odudua," he was a weak ruler'.
I know you are retarded and I don't expect you to think analytically but for the sake of others I will say this here
When you read a historical text, you think of its implications and you ask yourself "what exactly is this text trying to teach" before posting it as if it buttresses your point
From the excerpt a few things can be noted but the points relevant to this discussion are 1. Oduduwa was foreign to Ilé-Ifè 2. Ife had people already settled and established 3. Oduduwa and his party married into the local population
Now comparing the text to your assertions and claims of yoruba origin 1. where in this text does it remotely imply that oduduwa spoke a foreign language or that he imposed his language on the ife people? 2. Where in the text is it remotely implied that oduduwa was a semitic man from the middle East? 3. Where in this excerpt is Oduduwa's origin even mentioned? For all we know oduduwa could have come from another Yoruba settlement outside Ife (which btw, is actually the case)
I will post a picture of the entire page you quoted from. You left this out "... The City developing it's political and religious primacy as a result of the arrival of a militarily powerful group of foreigners who were part of a distant branch of the Yoruba people. Unfortunately the name of the leader of this group is not known, because in the accounts his identity is subsumed by that of his patron deity, Oduduwa"
What are the implications of this excerpt and the entire article to your general claims?
It's actually funny though because I remember introducing you to Suzanne Blier as one of the top figures of yoruba art history only for you to say a white woman cannot know Yoruba history
Olu317: As far as I am concerned, he seems to be one of the fewest absorbed or assimilated descendant of some Yoruba ancestors who were assimilated into Yoruba fold. Perhaps,this is the reason, he has never posted his oriki( panegyric) for once,despite the fact he claims to be an Isese man with boastfulness or he is just a myopic person. I sincerely intend he post his oriki and see where he is from Ekiti to link him up with other Yorubas.
what nonsense is this? This doesn't even make any sense
Damn
"descendants of yoruba ancestors who assimilated into the Yoruba fold"
And you know all my ancestry by me not posting my oríkì . Less information is provides more imagination Ignorant clowns with wild imaginations
And interesting to see how despite the incoherence, the discussion has shifted to imaginations on my ancestry than the Yoruba in general This should be interesting
Olu317: Let me quickly add here, to expose further that the real ancestors of yoruba were migrants,which made it compelling for the effort of a panel led by Abidemi Babalola and Olarenwaju Lasis for this great fit on conservation of 14th century Yoruba Artefacts and other related excavations. Thus, a whooping 400,000$ has been granted to these men and the authors: Gerard Chouin, Adisa Ogunfolakan and Geoffroy Saulieu of the topreserve the Yoruba enclave over the discoveries, by some notable and hard working archeologists, and resechers who are bent on knowing the identity of Ancient Yorubas through excavation and preservation of Artefacts found in Ileife and environs.
Therefore, the ignorants who ought to ask right question , will not do so on this thread, instead, provision of scholarly proof to counter the research work being done by us that has more glaring information that has baffled the lighter skin Caucasians or Europeans,which made them keep investigating Yoruba history. And facts keep emerging that the owner and teachers language which is Yoruba language's foundational speakers are migrants.
"Real ancestors of the Yoruba were migrants" We've heard that from you lot for decades.
Proof of this migration is still in limbo and nowhere to be seen
osuofia2: fake news, Fulanis are our brothers and not enemies, the Igbos are are just trying to cause disunity among the Yorubas and Fulanis. The igbo people are our problems and not Fulanis, The oba does not speak for the Omoalabis,
. See northerner with an igbo moniker acting out as a Yoruba
When you deranged fellows have nothing else to say you start questioning the pedigree and identity of someone who is far far far more Yoruba than all of you put together. Lets get this straight, if anyone's Yorubaness is to be questioned it is you. You don't even know who you are or where you come from Your utter ignorance of the simplest Yoruba facts and deep Hebrew/Arab worship is unlike a Yoruba person
You all have only one thing to do and that is : Provide evidence for your claims
Konquest: ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^ @k2money You are absolutely right... autosomal and haplogroup DNA tests that have been done on Yoruba people in the U.S. and UK via AncestryDNA and 23andMe clearly shows that Yorubas have NO Arab or so-called Hebrew DNA genetic markers. Yorubas who number over 45 million in Nigeria alone and more in Benin and Togo have ancestral bloodlines as well with the Benin/Togo region and some percentages from Ghana/Ivory Coast. This is as a result of the fact that Yorubas share boundaries with the Ewe of Togo/Ghana and also with the Fon and Aja. So you have some genetic intermingling at the frontier areas of Yorubaland!
The Oyo Empire also extended to the Togo axis and I believe some Yorubas actually have maternal origins from the military conquests of centuries back from Benin and Togo region... including some Nupe [not up to Niger State but the Kwara Nupe] and the Bariba/Batonu of the Kwara axis that were also conquered and incorporated into the Oyo Empire as vassals. You can check YouTube for several videos on Nigerians and African-Americans/Afro-Caribbeans who have taken those autosomal and haplogroup DNA tests. Below is a 2016 DNA test for Alex Boye who is a British-Nigerian of Yoruba parentage, but now based in the U.S. where he lives and is married to a white American woman. In 2018, there was another major update to all the results and all Yorubas where merged with the Benin/Togo Region.
So the reference to Arabian/Mecca bogus migration/information by some people is unfounded and this has been laid to rest with authentic DNA tests. Yorubas are indigenous completely to West Africa or are naturally 100% unicorns with the exception of recent marriages with caucasians or Europeans and Lebanese/Iranians that I'am aware of... NO MIXTURES whatsoever with Arabs, Berbers, Jews, etc, from several centuries back!
Fulanis who number 20 million in the entire Africa have some North Africa bloodlines of less than 20% from Morocco[Berber] with a little Iberian Peninsula[Spain] based on the over 700 years of Berber/Arab invasion of Spain and Portugal before the original land owners defeated the muslims and pushed them out of Europe in 1492! The rest of the larger Fulani ancestry percentage is indigenous to West Africa from the Senegal/Guinea/Mauretania area which I think is mainly the maternal lineage from conquest of some indigenous African ethnic groups like the Bambara, some Hausa, etc. The Fulani DNA test video is below.
Lastly, even the Ibos that have been falsely claiming Jewish origin do NOT any Jewish DNA markers in their bloodline. They are pure West Africans based on tests done on Ibos living in the U.S. and UK via AncestryDNA and 23andMe. They have Nigeria, Benin/Togo, Cameroon/Congo in varying percentages as well.
I hope you find this information useful!
All the best!
Cc:godspeed
Wonderful!!!
Yoruba are 100% West African, cultural, historical, archaeological, genetic, linguistic evidence all support this
absoluteSuccess: Call it any name, the nonsense trace back to you guy.
You are impulsive and your comments are reactions, not facts.
Each of your post proof this.
I have nothing to do with whatever nonsense you represent
And I cannot be teaching you at your age that facts can exist in reactions. If you have a specific problem with my post state it and stop posting irrelevant nonsense just to react to my post I wonder who the real impulsive one is here
Obalufon: i knew long ago that macof is not yoruba man useless impostor with his graypig friend they will spoil this forum with their vile mind ..
lmao. You brought it on your self by involving Edo people in your trashy delusions of middle eastern origin And frankly speaking, the guy in question as much a nuisance as he can be is sane, you lot on the other hand require medical attention
RedboneSmith: Actually, he is right. In my secondary school in Enugu, we had Igbo for L1 people and Igbo for L2 speakers.
L1 speakers are those for whom Igbo is a first language and L2 speakers are people for whom Igbo is a second language.
Those in the L2 Igbo class were still predominantly Igbo people, but who were raised outside the southeast and learnt another language (often English) before learning Igbo. Linguistically speaking, Igbo is their second language, and that was how the education system recognised them , even though they are ethnic Igbo.
That is technically the way it is, regardless of whether you are in Nigeria or America.
You can't logically say Igbo or Yoruba or Efik is the first language of a man who can't speak the language, just because he happens to belong to those groups by ethnic pedigree.
I am aware this is the system in many areas of the world where linguistic diversity and colonisation is less of an issue but as my impression has always been that in Nigeria if for example you are Igbo, Igbo is your native language no questions, a shift in this from one Nigerian language to another is an assimilation and adoption into another ethnicity
Your school experience is however interesting, we didn't have that in school and I remember helping out a few of my igbo friends with their Yoruba assignments because they started with almost no knowledge of yoruba
bigfrancis21: Logically speaking, if a Yoruba child learns English first as a child and Yoruba later as an adult, English is/was that child's native language and Yoruba a second language. Now if that child picks up Pidgin language as a teenager (as most Nigerians do) before Yoruba, Pidgin is her second language and Yoruba third language. Same applies to an Igbo or Bini child. Logic does not take into account emotions. It is what it is.
sorry this is wrong. At least based on the Nigerian system
First language remains the ethnic language not any foreign language regardless of the level of influence from said foreign language
bigfrancis21: Not correct. Igbo language is the first language for the majority of Ugbodu people. I noticed many 'self-professed Nigerian historians' do not know the difference between second language, dialect, language etc. In Ugbodu, 100% speak fluent Igbo. It is a native or first language to as many as 80% of all Ugbodu people. It is used by all and sundry and in all occasions in Ugbodu, be it burial, wedding or in the Church. All Ugbodu people can speak Igbo but not all can speak Olukumi. Now, there is one quarter/section/Ogbe primarily where Olukumi was preserved the most and you could find people from this quarter who are taught Olukumi first by their parents and Igbo second. For this smaller percentage, Olukumi is their first language and Igbo their second language. A second language is simply another language you acquire after you acquire the native one or a first language. For our parents and grandparents, English was often their second language learned after acquiring Igbo, Yoruba, Bini etc. but nowadays English has become the first language for many young folks and their native languages the second or even third (after Pidgin and/or maybe the language of the state they live in).
Now, it is from this very section of Ugbodu where you find the fanatic ones who are very excited about their origins and hold on dearly to their Olukumi origins. Some have replaced their Igbo names given by their parents with Olukumi names, speak Olukumi more often also wear the identity more often. For example, this lady in question might be from this part of Ugbodu. But truly, they are in the minority as at least 70% of Ugbodu people identify with their greater Anioma-Igbo brothers and carry Igbo names.
Remember, Ugbodu is just one of the originally 6 Olukumi villages, of today which 3 are completely Igbo-speaking. Of the remaining 3, 2 are much less Olukumi speaking (their Olukumi is highly adulterated with Igbo at best) and Ugbodu seems to speak the most purest form of Olukumi (although with some Igbo words here and there). All 6 villages speak Igbo fluently and Igbo remains the native tongue/first language for over 90% of all Olukumis across the 6 villages. The location of Ugbodu village at the tip/border of Anioma land ensured its absorption happened much slower than other sister inland villages.
So English is the native tongue of an igbo man who speaks English better than igbo?
Or he just failed to learn his native language igbo as good as English due to social factors?
And to go more directly into your post : reports about Ugbodu give the impression that the Olukumi dialect is still well preserved with people even addressing strangers with the dialect Why should we take your word for it? What research have you conducted on the matter?
absoluteSuccess: I earlier took metaphysical suggestion on Ile Ife as Nineveh, but now I know better through research, bro. Ile Ife is in the land of Edom in Nabatean district, hence the claim that the Yoruba originated in Ile Ife was an ancient fact. the harmony was equally struct on my hometown claim that Ado is the melting point of Edo and Ife tradition. On this I wonder how two far-flung places could influence another community at the same time.
Now it becomes clear: there was an Ife where the Yoruba ancestors came from, which was a district of Edom, and was then under the empire of Israel. The original Ife was a departure point for the emigrants, the adoption of this name as the landing place of the Yoruba ancestors laid the foundation for the continual strife for seniority between the two houses as you have it today.
The original Ife was in a state of Edom, as such, the house of Edom will always claim to have foster Ile Ife, as it was in a foggy past lost to the Yoruba, hence the claim that Oduduwa came from Edo. This rival claim is derived from the fact that indeed, Oduduwa came from the district of Edom to found Ile Ife, in the company of the same folks, (such as edomites too) in a lost tradition we are trying to re-enact now.
Is there a tradition alluding to this? Edom is known as mount Seir, that's right. Albeit, that's anglicize rendition of Seri, from whence the Awori have their variant, Iseri: the earlier claim of Iseri being Israel holds, but the same word serves this two cognate masters as "the melting point of Ife-Edo tradition" so to say.
the ancient habour was the root for the name Ile Ife, but the state was known as Seir. the Yoruba tradition is valid and accurate on the path we are towing: facts does not expose itself so obvious, hence it would never have been an issue for discussion but a common knowledge. Albeit, l'owe l'owe laa lulu agidigbo, ologbon nii jo, omoran nii modie.
So in summary : Odùduwà came from Ile-ife in Edom(modern day Jordan) to Ilé-Ifè in Nigeria and the Edomites migrated to Edo (modern day Nigeria) So when the Edo say Oduduwa came from Edo, they are not so wrong because they actually mean he came from their former home in Edom
How can't you see the bullshit in this? Are you really that insane?
Do you not think of the implications of this? 1. Edo originate from present day Jordan 2. There is/was an "Ilé-Ifè" in Jordan
How do you bring this into consistency with reality?
Let me bring in some Edo people here, make them see wetin dey happen Osagyefo98, davidnazee, gregyboy, Efesogie,
absoluteSuccess: Just as you have nothing of relevance in the post I earlier quoted, however, I will be gracious enough to teach you as I take you through the blankness of your thought. Let's see...
Point 1. “Nobody even considers the bible a proper source for Hebrew history.”
Without the bible, do you know of another source for the Hebrew history? What does that proper source claimed the Hebrew to be? You know the bible is not the proper source, but you never quoted an example of the proper source to substantiate your claim and how the proper source contradicted the bible about the Hebrew history? why must you make bogus claims that you can never substantiate with facts and figures?
More like saying nobody even consider ifa a proper source for Yoruba history.
Point 2.“Usually historical details mentioned in the bible are only taken seriously when confirmed by actual historical sources”
Good, every detail of history that happened in the Hebrew part of the Levant has to be confirmed by actual historical sources. this have to be eyewitnesses, made of people who left their own historical business all the time to record the Hebrew history as it unfolds, so as to be called the original crooners of the actual sources.
Point 3. “The Bible holds no weight as a historical source”.
You have a good case against the bible from “actual sources” without examples. Such bogus claims without substance are clever guises to cover your lack of erudition as you cannot bring any material out of the “heavyweight” source for proper Hebrew history.
Point 4. “Countless source critics have stated this, even Jewish historians do.”
Countless source critics have stated this, how? Is it impossible to cite just a source or an authority among this countless number? When a man claims he is an historian, that’s when he is not but an impostor. Historians tell a story, not primarily engrossed in finding means to destroy one historical collection or the other on the ground that one "actual source" know best what the impostor cannot share.
Such tactics is the game for the iconoclast pretending to be relevant: their only claim to erudition is to read and find something to disagree about in what they read, and that’s quite easy to do. Since you are an "online disagreement historian", you need no personal resources but clever use of the resources of your opponents.
Point 5. “But some deranged fellow claiming to be Yoruba thinks the same Bible that doesn't mention Yoruba people is the source of yoruba history”
This is the basis of telling you that you have low intelligent quotient: expecting the bible that was completed about 2000 years ago to mention “Yoruba” - a name that came with colonialism in its pages is like expecting the “actual historical source of 2000 years ago” to have on its pages a country called “Nigeria”. bible did not have to mention "Yoruba" to validate or invalidate Yoruba canaanland connection.
The name “Yoruba” is not an eponymous name; it is Fulani appellation on the people now so called. People have been moving around the world for thousands of years, they have moved and changed names and locations before writing was invented and still does. Does “Yoruba” stamped a history spanning thousands of years on the people so named because they were so named?
If yes, discuss
Point 6 “As to the rest of your senseless chatter, I have no response to such irrelevant comment. Especially as It does not address my post.”
That makes you the deranged fellow claiming to be Yoruba, yours is a reverse psychology. Albeit, nothing resourceful attends your post in your post as you would have said: writing history without doing the work. Yours is an empty confidence and expertise built on the use of emoticons.
Let me help you with source criticism of the bible from my source, helping you to shape your argument as you lack the tool to do likewise in your "wild goose chase" tactics that you often adopt to evade explanations and scrutiny.
Well as you can see, no part of this Yoruba Hebrew thread dwell on the miracles in the bible, but repeated events of place names and cultural tradition analogous to the Levant repeating itself in Yoruba culture. That’s the scientific attribute of the bible the scientists were talking about.
Source Criticism
By this, your source intends to say literary criticism:
The answer to the two question is simple: when you are the first to reduce the oral record of your people to books, do you quote source that does not exist in your culture just for the sake of quote? The natural tendency will be to assume an omnipresent narrator writing technique to inform the incoming generation.
That subsequent generation of writers in the same culture consult sources shows that time and literary tradition has changed and the writers of the book of Kings did what is expected of the code of ethics of scribes in their days and consulted available sources to ensure their write-up is authoritative as they had not lived through all the ages they wanted to write about.
Quotes taken from the book think God think science by Michael Pfunder in discussion with Ernest Lucas.
More rants of idiocy.
Learn to make sense in as few words as possible
1. A historian is not a mere story teller. A historian gathers information, analyses and interprets them to reach a conclusion on their authenticity and signifance
2. The Bible does not mention the Yoruba people... That is what I said . Clearly you are too dumb and I should have used an extra sentence to explain that the people not the name was meant... Should I have meant the name "Yoruba" it would have been clear enough by use of quote marks I still wait for what parts of the Bible Yoruba people are mentioned and with what names
3. Countless scholars (yes, so many I value it as countless) have stated the Bible is not a proper historical source and only take stories from it seriously when confirmed by better measures to gain historical knowledge like archaeology, art history, palaeography and general measures of source criticism Scholars like William Dever, Thomas Thompson, Lupovitch Howard, Adele Berlin etc
P. S you see how few my words are? Try that and stop ranting
Arrewa: Killing our people in the east... And still coming on Nairaland to boast about the killings...
But note: if our people retaliate by killing your own people don't start crying Genocide and yearning for international sympathy...
Fulanis doing their business in the east were murdered in cold blood... And I can see some southerners in full support of these Atrocities...
Were the Fulanis killed bandit?? No Did they attacked anyone?? No Did they try robbing anyone?? No
They were killed because of the tribe they found themselves in...
If we start our own now they will start crying Genocide...
The highest thing you will do is to start killing Nigeriens migrant...migrants from Niger republic that you believe are Hausas... Just the way you massacre them at onitsha thinking you are killing the Northerners while you people suffered real casualties in the north...
Right now... Na una start the killings Killing Nigerians doing their business just because they were perceived to be fulanis
Will you keep quiet. You are the problem
How many Nigerians have fulani devils killed? It's good people are showing the devils the same attitude you like to show
This is time for the real Nigerian people to defend themselves
Culture › Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by macof(m): 9:24pm On Feb 03, 2020
. Instead, vulgar statement from you. 