₦airaland Forum

TAO11:
Does the following look familiar to you??


This false Bini forgery and propaganda of the 1970s (that Oduduwa was one and the same person as a certain wandering Ekaladerhan) have been debunked, again and again, by historians the world-over.

This myth has long been busted and have long been dismissed and forgotten in academia (as apocryphal, pseudo-historical, and unauthentic), except among Benin Nairalanders.


For example, the world-renowned scholar and expert of Benin History, Dmitri M. Bondarenko, of the Institute for African Studies in the Russian Academy of Sciences, writes and I quote here:


"Finally, there are the APOCRYPHAL versions of Benin oral tradition. ... (wherein) Ekaladerhan ... Some time later ... left Gwato for Ife."

D. M. Bondarenko continues:

"According to other versions of the kind, after leaving Gwato, Ekaladerhan founded another settlement, Ile-Ife and became her first ruler under the name of Oduduwa."

After having thoroughly combed through the different versions of this Apocryphal account, D. M. Bondarenko wrapped up his assessment of this account by noting that:

"However, a student of ancient Benin might feel obliged to REJECT the APOCRYPHAL versions without hesitation as deliberately UNAUTHENTIC. There are no their records made before the early 1970s ..."

This Apocryphal and unauthentic account which says that Ekalederhan became king in Ife are non-existent before the 1970s, he said.

He then puts the final nail in the coffin by submitting that:

"There is no doubt that the APOCRYPHAL versions are NOT AUTHENTIC and are not popular. Their authors are representatives of the nationalistically-minded part of the Bini intelligentsia who are seeking to ground the idea of an exceptional antiquity for their people and claims for its exclusive part in the socio political life of independent Nigeria ... Behind such PSEUDOHISTORICAL studies by intellectuals, as if harmless, one can make out serious problems for the country ..."


Refer for details to: 

Dmitri M. Bondarenko, "Advent of the Second (Oba) Dynasty: Another Assessment of a Benin History Key Point", History in Africa, Vol. 30 (2003), pp. 67 - 68, Cambridge University Press.

I'm surprised you know Dmitri Bondarenko
that guy has waves of written works on Bini history more than any Bini scholar actually

FrLukas:
I am not convinced that the Yorubas have a Hebrew heritage. The OP has provided no proof of this, just some mumbo jumbo about Elijah being taken away by a whirlwind and trying to link some Yoruba words with this event.

To me, the link looks tenuous and tedious. There are ancient documents that link Yorubas to ancient Canaan.

A subject such as this is most important and can't be covered by a few words on a blogosphere like this one.

I submit that it is high time our political and traditional leaders as well as academic scholars like Wole Soyinka and keepers of our ancient heritage and secrets come together and help us trace our root and our source.

Enough of all of these guess works and grandstanding. They are misleading.

That Yorubas originated from an ancient, rich and very developed source is not in doubt. You only need to check out the richness of the language, the idioms, idiosyncrasies, proverbs and general use of the language. You need to understand the Yoruba religion which some others have called Santeria, the beauty of the lores and legends, the elaborateness of the religious practices, the incredibility of the pantheons of gods in Yorubaland.

All these point to a history, obviously forgotten, that would wow us and make us understand that there was probably a time when our forefathers walked the earth majestically.

The time is ripe to harness all the intelligence we can muster as a people to trace our origins, because a people who don't know their past, will blunder and stumble on into the future.

When we know whose children we truly are then can we begin to cast off the yoke of white supremacy that beclouds out senses and makes us think we are inferior to the whites.

Then and only then can we look at ourselves and observe our living conditions in disgust and strive to become who we are meant to be.

This cannot happen if we keep misinforming ourselves and holding ourselves up to a standard that I am quite sure is way beneath us.

I remember that this was how some Moslems in Yorubaland tried to twist our history by saying that Oduduwa migrated from Mecca and the likes.

Yoruba, ji, ma sun!

There is so much work to be done on African history sure but you don't go around with crazy imaginative constructions. This feeling of inferiority is such a pitiful consequence of the anti African/anti Black propaganda that the world has used to justify their atrocities... Propaganda also carried and maintained through Islam and Christianity brought to our lands
Africans are the only ones who want to be anything but what they are
Not just these particular 3 or 4 guys over the Yoruba
Thousands maybe Millions of igbos will swear they are Hebrews... You have such people among the Akan, Ewe and the Bantu groups too


It's like it's a shame to have African origin
As much as it is obvious that these bands of Hebrew and Arab wannabes all over the Internet do this out of self hate and inferiority complex as Africans in contrast to the great admiration for Hebrews, Arabs and the likes from that region

The major problem here with anyone pushing this is actually their lack of scholarship, lack of expertise on both West African and Levantine civilizations

Efesogie:
For an etymology to exist, you need ancient dictionnaries, we have no such thing in our region of the world.
Our ancestors didn't write. They had other systems.
So it makes no sense to talk about ethymology in our case.
Dictionnaries of our languages are all recent creations.

that's why you have linguist experts in that field.
Eg. A lot of words presumed to have been used in the Proto-Indo-European language have been sourced out without the use of any ancient dictionary

Efesogie:
Are you not tired of vomitting all these rubbish which you keep posting ?

It is as if you are trying to brainwash some people.
For your information, there is no such thing as etymology of the word Oba. Indeed there is no precolonial dictionary of our region of the world ! All you are doing is just make belief. Also you are not an Egyptologist ! Stop acting as if you knew anything about Egyptology and Egyptology has nothing to do with Yoruba "history" or rather lack of it.
You just can't be intellectually honest for a second ! And some fools are sheering this troll !??

Interesting.
What gives you the idea that any word (not a modern slang) can exist without an etymology?

kayfra:
This shameful thread of Jewish historical appropriation is still ongoing! What's the substitution count of judeo Christian characters hijacked by the posters or how much linguistic gymnastics has been derived?

Lolz

this is actually hilarious
Just wait for more nonsensical claims that have no basis at all outside the imagination of the particular person making it.. Not even amongst themselves can they agree

TAO11:


That guy is just too much. /s

Nairaland culture section is one hell of a place with all kinds of crazy things
I just realised that's tpia the legend of imaginative constructions on this forum

nlPoster:
You're Yoruba and you dont know omonoba means child or descendants of the Oba (referring to royal lineage possibly from the Yoruba side)? Ie people of the Oba. Omo which translates as Umu in eastoid languages?

Can you explain how Ba means shine.

I'm lost

TAO11:
Below is an example of the incontrovertible argument on the word "OBA":



For the Yorubas, there is a difference between A ROYAL TITLE and the word "KING" itself.

(a) Throughout all the diverse Yoruba kingdoms, the word "OBA" simply and clearly means "KING". No more, no less.

(b) However, in addition to this aforementioned Yoruba word for "KING", each of the different Yoruba kingdoms also reserve an exclusive word to describe its own monarch.

(c) These exclusive words or ROYAL TITLES distinguish one Yoruba OBA from the other Yoruba OBA.

While the word "OBA" itself simply means "KING", these royal titles (such as: OONI-IFE, ALAAFIN-OYO, OLUBADAN, etc.) do not simply by themselves mean "KING"; although they are used to exclusively describe the respective kings.

(d) For example: "OONI-Ife" by itself simply means: "THE ONE WHO OWNS Ife".

"ALAAFIN Oyo" (from: "OLU-AFIN Oyo" ) by itself simply means: "THE SOVEREIGN OF Oyo PALACE".

"OLUBADAN" (from: "OLU-IBADAN) by itself simply means: "THE SOVEREIGN OF IBADAN".


(e) This practice of reserving an exclusive ROYAL TITLE (which by itself does not necessarily mean "KING" ) for a monarch is similar, for example, to the ancient Egyptians' practice.

Although the word "PHARAOH" (i.e. "PER-AA" ) exclusively describe the ancient Egyptian kings, the word itself does NOT mean "KING".

Instead, it actually means "THE GREAT HOUSE".

It is simply a royal title which runs side-by-side the actual ancient Egyptian word for "KING".

(f) Having clarified the practice of having unique royal titles to distinguish one Yoruba Oba from the other Yoruba OBA, I will now turn to the historical analysis of the word "OBA" among the Yorubas and among the Edos/Binis.

(g) To proceed, I like to put forward the following submissions, the respective truth of which will be subsequently established to show that the word "OBA" (for "KING" ) is indeed of Yoruba origin:

(1) The Yorubas have been using the word "OBA" for their kings long long before the Binis ever would.

(2) The etymology of the word "OBA" for "KING" is not found in the Edo/Bini lexicon; but clearly present in the Yoruba's.

(3) The Binis have an actual Edo/Bini word in their own language which clearly and straightforwardly means "KING".


Regarding the point (1) on the historical timeline:

It is well known that there have been two different kingly dynasties in Benin.

It wasn't until the beginning of the second dynasty that the word "OBA" first described Benin monarchs. Prior to then, they used an entirely different word.

In a testimony of Oba Ewuare 2, he admits that the first use of the word "OBA" to describe a Benin monarch was for a man from Ile-Ife called Oranmiyan.

I hope you're gradually beginning to appreciate the reality.

Moreover, prior to Oranmiyan and his ancestor Oduduwa, the Ile-Ife people have been using the word "OBA" to designate the rulers of the different settlements of their collective territory.

Historically, Ile-Ife comprises some13 primary settlements in those early times, namely: Ido, Iloromu, Ideta, Odun, Iloran, Oke-Oja, Imojubi, Iraye, Ijugbe, Oke-Awo, Iwinrin, Parakin, and Omologun.

In these pre-Oduduwa times, these settlements were independently ruled by different monarchs called "OBA".

Some of the most prominently identified of these pre-Oduduwa OBAs whose "names" have come down to posterity together with the settlements they ruled over are: Obatala and Obawinrin.

Obatala was in charge of the settlement known as Ideta prior to his exile from Ile-Ife during the civil war that broke out when Oduduwa rose to prominence.

Obatala and his loyalists re-established a version of Ideta within the thicket of some forest away from Ife. This Ideta was called Ideta-Oko to serve as contrast to the stately Ideta (also called Ideta-Nla or Ideta-Ile) in which they lived while at Ile-Ife.

"Obatala", over time, became the contraction of "Oba Ideta-Nla"; that is, "King of Ideta-Nla".

The etymology of "Obawinrin", in contrast, is quite more obvious. "Obawinrin" became the contraction of "Oba Iwinrin"; that is, "King of Iwinrin".

Among these pre-Oduduwa kingly personages who have all long been deified is Obameri. He probably ruled over a sub-settlement.

All these "names" date to the pre-Oduduwa era. In other words, long long before Oranmiyan who will later become the FIRST REFERENT of the word "OBA" for "KING" in Benin kingdom.

I hope you see the point here.


Regarding point (2) on the etymology of "OBA":

The original, indigenous, and extant "Oba-sounding" word in the language of the Edo/Bini people comes from the Edo root-word "BA".

This root-word in simple, clear, and unequivocal terms means "SHINE".

From this Edo root-word "BA", the derived forms "O-BAA", "NOBA", and "N'OBA" each have the following respective meanings "IT IS SHINING"; "RED"; and "THAT WHICH SHINES".

Even a consideration of the derived form "N'OBA" still doesn't do justice to the etymology, because it simply means "THAT WHICH SHINES", or "THE ONE WHO SHINES" by extension to humans.

This meaning is by no stretch of the imagination one and the same thing as "KING".


The derived forms from the Edo root word "BA" are clearly entirely different words from the word "KING".

The similarity of these derived forms to the actual Yoruba word "OBA" (for "KING" ) begins and ends in the somewhat similar sounds. No more, no less.


Now, what about the Yoruba etymology of "OBA"? Does it mean "KING"? Let's find out.

The Yoruba word "OBA" comes from the Yoruba root-word "BA" which in simple, clear, and unequivocal terms means "RULE".

For example, this Yoruba root-word is found in the Yoruba statement: "Oba BA Lori Ohun Gbo-gbo."

From this Yoruba root-word "BA", the derived form "OBA", therefore means "ONE WHO RULES". No but or if.

It becomes obvious that "ONE WHO RULES" is unproblematically the equivalence of the single word "KING".

In sum, the word "OBA" (for "KING" ) as used today by the Binis is not originally found in the Edo/Bini lexicon, because the etymology "King" is not found from the available Oba-sounding Edo word.

The use of "OBA" for "KING" in Benin kingdom began with the Ife-Yoruba man called Oranmiyan, as rightly admitted by Oba Ewuare 2 in the video I attached earlier. Earlier indigenous Benin rulers were not so referred.

Again, it becomes obvious what this implies.


Regarding point (3) about the original and extant Edo/Bini word for "KING":

The logical outstanding question in the light of the foregoing therefore is:

What then is the original Edo/Benin word for "KING" since "OBA" has been demonstrated to be originally alien to the Edo/Bini lexicon??

In simple, straightforward, and unequivocal terms, the original Edo/Bini word for "KING" which actually still survives even till date is "OGIE".


Many indigenous Bini historians always acknowledge this, but without realizing its implication.


Cheers

pawon
You just sent some Binis to school with this

cbrass:
. that is entirely not true.. I used to think it was so before not until I starred to explore, even in Ile Ife they know Ogun was Oduduwas son but they just deliberately kept quiet about it. The Okanbi name is the name Oyo people gave Ogun lakaye

I have suspected this for a few years now but would still do some research on it to get some assurance for this theory. Or do you have some more information on this?

Because Okanbi is not known in Ife but seems to be a popular name in Oyo

MetaPhysical:
You cannot tell a builder not to draw plans or erect structure because they are not architect or engineer. You can report them to the licensing authority who will then sanction or penalize.

You can report my information to a professional body of historians and have them penalize me....but to tell me to stop writing about my ancestors is bizarre. They will slap your petition in your face.

If you doubt go and tell historians in East and in Yorubaland that someone wrote that Oranmiyan and Aramean are connected and the person should be brought to books. I wait to see your humiliation on social media.

If your professional authority cannot stop me, who are you to try to silence the voice of the ancestors?

You might want to weigh your position again regarding your advocacy and insistence that only historians are qualified to document the deeds of ancestors. E be like say you don miss road!

Oga provide evidence of your claims
.. Simple as that
All this shameless bickering only because you can't defend any of your numerous claims

The only thing you have been told to stop doing is your imaginative construction.
The past and deeds of "your" ancestors don't exist in your imagination so you can't find anything using your imagination all the time
Your ancestors that you don't know a thing about

Nabatean son

Yujin:
Lol. Which West African history? You're not verse in history like am neither are you detailed up to being specific about words like I am. If you can clearly define both words (empire and Kingdom), you will know that you and your likes have been arguing blindly. The centre of power in an empire is always the emperor and his word is final. He's usually like a God among men. All empires are usually controlled by a smaller group who conquer larger areas and are able to unite all these different people into a single entity with the various people seeing themselves as being under the umbrella of their conquerors. This is what Benin was able to accomplish. Till date, the Oba of Benin still commands respect despite the demise of the great empire they once hard. Imagine a tiny six to seven LGA people dominating more lands and people they had. That's impressive. See the Ottoman empire led by the Turks. Roman Empire led by tiny Rome. Mongolian empire led by Genghis Khan covering more than ten times his original territory. Coming to Africa, we see the Songhai empire from one tiny area of Mali leading the Songhai Empire. The Ashanti empire with the Asante people of Kumasi uniting other Akan groups and non Akan neighbours to become a regional force. Their footprint in Ghana till date is the popular Twi language that is wide spread all over the country. Where's that of Oyo?
A kingdom on the other hand, has a king who's power is subject to some kingmakers and council of chiefs. He's not regarded as a god. Great kingdoms fight and defeat their neighbours and demand tributes from the them but are not able to unite these defeated neighbours into one people to bear a United name. This is what Oyo achieved. This is why they don't have any footprint outside Yorubaland. Compare the size of Oyo itself with the tiny lands of the Fon in Dahomey. What about the lands of the Nupe; how big is it?
My criticism is borne out my conviction and never out of prejudice or jealousy. I'm above pettiness.

Have you read any books about Oyo to come to this confident conclusion?
You should never be comfortable with ignorance especially on a topic you appear to have interest in

MetaPhysical:
But im not an historian. Im not telling history. Im telling the past accounts of my phenomenal ancestors and their achievements as represented in symbolism, in arts, in words, in language, worship, war, priesthood and so on.

What do you want to know about Oranmiyan? You are stuck on the Aramean concept.

In Yoruba Oranmiyan himself would have either been a titular label or an attribute of his legend.

We dont say Lamidi when we refer to Alaafin. Just Alaafin alone and people know who you are talking about.

We dont say Adeyeye when we want to mention Ooni.

Do you think Oranmiyan was the given name to the Yoruba legend?

Try to think....dont just open mouth and spew anything out. Act like a Yoruba, even if you are not one. Stop speaking and revealing yourself as a pseudo-Yoruba.

You try your best to push a historical claim of monumental proportions affecting all of west African and Middle Eastern history

Yes you are no historian obviously but you don't seem to let that sink in. You want to do the work of historians but don't want to do the actual "work"

You are telling this and that, good.. Now provide evidence of what you are telling me or give me your source

Are you not stuck on the concept? We both know there is no claim that you will ever drop, no matter that evidence provided to show you that it is wrong.
Days from now you will post Aramean is Oranmiyan again
But good enough, apparently you don't know the historical narrative that makes the name Oranmiyan relevant to Odede (yes, Odede is his actual name)
And as far as the foundation of Oyo is concerned there is only one Oranmiyan and only one Oranmiyan is known anywhere in the world that is in Yorùbáland
There are no entire groups of people named after Oranmiyan in the middle East...I have demonstrated that already

There was never a time I wasn't thinking, or just spewing anything out.. That's what you and your band do.. You don't think, you only imagine.. Very different things
If I say something I can defend it

And again with this old gimmick of calling a person who is far more Yoruba than you a fake Yoruba
You have not demonstrated anything that would make anyone be assured that you are actually Yoruba. What do you know lol
He say I should act like Yoruba
See Aramean and Nabatean wannabe telling me how to act Yoruba
Wetin Musa no go see for gate

MetaPhysical:
Reserve your solicitation for someone else. Everything I say in that post Ive said many times before.

I have also told you many times before now that history is behind oral records and art records. History goes to oral source to collect information it uses to produce knowledge. The information I share with you are also found in arts, in occults, in words, in religion and even in myths.

You are too small and academically insufficient to be abreast of me on the topic of root and origin of Yoruba, return here with a phd in history, I will still be ahead bringing you new ideas, and you will be in same position lamenting lack of methodology.

LOL the similar response to what I expected. Of course no way are you ready to scrutinize your claims

Do provide your source on such oral accounts and evidence of arts, religious practice and the rest

And you still haven't answered the question on Oranmiyan.

You accused me of being biased. I want to show you I am not and I will be willing to buy one of your ideas if you can prove it
I know you have many ideas, ideas you create out of your wild imagination but that's not how history works

MetaPhysical:
We find that Idums are always associated with Edoms. There is a neighbor of the Edoms called Nabatas.

Respectively these are Idumeans, Edomites and Nabateans.

You are not teaching anything new by injecting Greek/Latin name identifiers into your "methodology".

We already know Hausa have identifiers ending in -wa. Larabawa, Yarabawa, Hausawa, Nupawa. So to pull up a distracting "methodology" trying to teach why Adamawa carries the wa suffix is a show of indolence and sign of a compromised intelligence.


Perharps you have also read from me in either one of the Yoruba threads or a Bini/Edo thread that -

1. Idu is central to Ife and would have been used in ancient times as a geo-locator for the presence of an Orisha or its shrine.

2. When we go away from Ife Idu transforms and becomes Ado, Ido, Idi, Edo, Odo, and so on depending on the properties, gender and character of Idu that is imbibed.

3. There are many culturally indigeneous names in Yoruba that also repeat and mirrored in Holy scriptures and as well in the lands in which these scriptures took root.

4. Anywhere you read about Idumeans mention is also made of Edomites and their neighbors Nabateans....and from them came the people of Ad, who were the forebears of Arabs.

5. From above you should see even in history that there is an interlink between Idu, Edo and Ado.

6. Who were the Nabatas, or Nabateans?

Their origin is unknown but their name Nabata is an attribute of their association with water.

7. The Yoruba L when it occurs in AfroAsia it becoms N. This where Noa became Lua (as in Omoluabi). Lamurudu became Nimrod. Similarly, Labata became Nabata.

8. In Yoruba, Abata is swamp. Those that dwell in marshy grounds are Labata.

9. In my familiarity of historical accounts I have never read anywhere that history declared it could not find a people's origin....as it did with the Nabateans.

10. Is it remotely possible that Yorubas had two epochs of migration, one in which from Ife we went out and settled the fertile crescent, to be called Idumeans, Edomites, Nabateans; and a return after the founding of Ad, Arabs, Koreish, back to Ife where we are now known as Yoruba and people of Adamu Orisha?


Mr Macof, will you open your mind and be completely unbiased to the prospects of what we are bringing to you and study these information for their hints instead of trying to sell us a methodology that is limited in scope, and at best you have no grip on to benefit us or yourself...

I see the burn has subsided and you are calmer now

Oh and I didn't intend to teach you something new. This isn't the first time I would be hitting your head with lectures like these... I was reminding you who I am
And why you need to take history seriously around historians since you want to do a historians job. I might clown sometimes but this entire situation is not a joke

Here you are again with more claims. Do you have evidence for them? Or just how did you even reach this conclusion? What was your method? Did you check the etymology of these words, did you consider the available historical narratives? Are there recorded contacts between the Yoruba and the Nabateans and Edomites?
Have you familiarised yourself with who these people were?
Did you check for archaeological findings? Did you bother to include distance and the millions of people between Yorùbáland and the Middle East in your thoughts before reaching this Conclusion of back and forth migration? Or what are your sources?

Try doing so and filter your claims... Take out those weak ones that scrumble when you scrutinize them yourself

I am always unbiased. You are just too emotional and can't stand questions


And I asked you earlier if you knew the historical narrative about Oranmiyan that earned him the name Oranmiyan in the first place? You never answered

Let's make this a proper lecture if you aren't too emotional for it

Olu317:
Contrary to the long epistle on the etymology of Aramian Aramean , you dont understand which is a name derived from the land of Or; in Iraq enclave and beyond in Near East during the antiquity era. Interestingly it means,‘ bright/light', in Semtic language of the classic Hebrew in the land of Aram . While it became anglicised word to identify it with inhabitants as the demonym! The transliteration is ‘awra m'. Olodo lasan


Ora mi yan is a name that was formed out of Ora; a Yoruba word that grew out of ‘Oor ra'(one who brightens), Yorubas God, who is called Ora. In the manner which Oo ba( one who lord over, king,father,lord of the house etc) is identified with.Plainly Ora is another name that is identified with the ancient name of ele ( mighty one), in Yoruba religion and history. This eternal personality is the one known as Ora-mfe ; signifying the thundering light/brightness that controlls Ara( thunder) and Ninuife/Nileife.

Plainly Ora mi ( chosen breath of brightness of God ) is a limited to the actual meaning but can still be a bit inline with the Yoruba's word for God. So, get off from your nonsensical theories and read good books and go to Ileife to know people, royal bloodlinue who still attach Ora either as prefix or suffix to their names. Ora mee Iyah Ora mi yah ( brightness of the terrestrial power (birdlike ~ Igunnugu) of God. I'll advice some one on this platform to go study more so as to know the true history of Yoruba beyond this nonsensical theories you don't understand . In fact,you don't even know Ba is only classic Hebrew word. While Baba is an Arabic word, Indus word, East European word. And they are not Yoruba's. Does it mean Yoruba don't own any word in her lexicons but loaned every spoken daily words ? Olodo them them who repeat class over and over again. Help yourself with all dictionaries you can lay your hands on!

Sort this out with MetaPhysical because according to him
Aramean is a corrupted form of Oranmiyan

You both don't even have the same "clues"
Your clues are just all over the place like a babies diarrhea... No coordination, no consistency, no relevance

But of course, after all each of you are using your individual imagination so it will always come out with unmatchable "clues"

Notice I put quotes on that

PS. The Arameans come from the Syrian enclaves not Iraq
I honestly don't want to have to embarrass you on this one again

MetaPhysical:
Can you imagine, somebody that claims he is a professional historian fa.....

His famed "methodology" demonstrated in his last response has shown him to be a quack!

Obviously because you don't know a thing and rely solely on imaginative construction
Somehow I was expecting you to react this way as no way you would be willing to let go of your cherished "clue" of Aramean is Oranmiyan

Look at how trashing your so called clue got all of you so worked up... The raging furry and frustration

These are my main sources: the books "The Aramaeans: Their Ancient History, Culture, Religion" and "Studies in Aramaic Inscriptions and Onomastics"
By Edward Lipiński a world renowned Scholar on Semitic languages and general Levantine history
I also know through years of experience the transformation pattern of Greek words through Latin into English

This reaction is priceless . Like pouring salt on a couple of pesky little earthworms


PS. And yes, in case you don't know, historical linguistics is one of the Auxilary Sciences used to advance historical research. My use of etymology is very valid.

MetaPhysical:
Mr., there is not a single thread on Ijinle Yoruba in Nairaland that Macof has not contributed in. The ones I know of at least. Consistently you maintain a persistent position that historical authenticity must be facilitated by historians who have painstakingly put information at their disposal through a methodology process, and any other presentation is untenable.

You call yourself historian. Infact your claim to fame is that those with opposing views are not credible because they have not adopted "methodology" in coming to conclusions they believe in.

I am not a historian and do not have a clue what your methodology is but I am a treasure of history and messages and in my possession are clues that when pieced together can act as a bridge to explain the missing link between Ife and Arabia. I am begging you the historian, to help put them through your methodology approach and tell me what they mean.

Can you do that for me?

This is what I have done repeatedly that it is appearing as if I am even wasting my time with you lot. Many times I do show you how you are wrong

Now let's see what we can do with one of your "clues" that I remember
You have repeatedly said something along the lines of "Aramean is a corruption of Oranmiyan"
Which is just not so...
How is this obvious?

Using etymology and finding consistency with the historical narrative attached to the names

Aramean = Aramai(c) + an (designated to a person of Aramaic origin... Like "NigeriAN" refers to a person from Nigeria) (English)
Aramaios (Greek)
Aramu (just as Arab is Arabu) (Assyrian)

Therefore Aramean is essentially Aram... The "ean" endings is a result of adjectives and transliterations

Now when you look at Aramu, or Aramaios does it still look like Oranmiyan to you?

If yes, what of when we look at the breakdown of "Oranmiyan"
The easiest theory might be "Oran mi ti yan" as many people say but it might actually be "Oran ni omo yi yan" Which makes more sense semantically as well as fits the historical narrative of the character Oranmiyan with the circumstances of his birth...
You know the historical narrative I'm talking about?


There are many of such claims from clues you say you possess that I and other historians on this forum have corrected maybe due to you being oblivious of the facts or as you said you don't know how to apply historical methods

MetaPhysical:
Stop dodging my challenge to you with distractions.

There has been tons of information, treasures, never before heard or seen but new information that over the years have been dumped here in Nairaland. When I sweep through threads on Yoruba origin I notice you are in almost all of them that Ive aeen so far. You are an advocate for professional methodology and you have agreed that most of the information you have come in contact are useless. That will leave some information you have received that are not useless and could be beneficial. I challenge you to apply professional methodology to filter and inspect these information for their cultural authenticity, from historian perspective....and share your results. Do that please.

Reread my last two comments.. It addresses this
Please endeavour to prevent an irrelevant back and forth

MetaPhysical:
You said most. What happens with the ones not yet debunked? Can you put them through the methodology process?

Cont...

Just like the newest claim made by you guys
"Igala and Nupe originate from Egypt"

Now, there are other claims to igala and nupe origin, and this Egyptian one doesn't even come close

I am not interested in going into details of research on igala and nupe history but let's assume this claim hasn't been debunked or cannot be debunked with the level of knowledge acquired so far.
It is completely hilarious to ask me to apply methods to reach the conclusion that igala and nupe indeed originate from Egypt
Very comical

How did the person who made the claim reach that conclusion without a method?

MetaPhysical:
You said most. What happens with the ones not yet debunked? Can you put them through the methodology process?

Very funny last question.. Best described as a Wild-Goose chase. That a claim has been debunked means that there is another claim supported with superior evidence that shows the first claim is false.

That no evidence to show a claim is false has been presented doesn't automatically mean said claim is true, it is only in a state of limbo and the burden of proof remains with who is making the claim that is why I often ask for evidence for the claims you guys make even in cases I know to be false just to give you a chance or to spark a thought, but unfortunately you guys aren't cut out for history

The essence of having a method is that it leads to conclusive facts not limbo

Obalufon:
i know you are not yoruba ...No claiming i.just want.to know.your

Your rants are useless now it's this gimmick?

Read this well Mr. Man
There is nothing Yoruba about you, I can very well say this that using your actions on this forum with the constant Hebrew praise and insult of African civilizations that you are not Yoruba. Even if you may have Yoruba blood, it is not by blood alone mentally and spiritually you are not here but in the middle East

This is tantamount to sabotage campaign and mental health issues or not, being paid by a church or Islamic group or not your actions if not checked and restricted has the potential to plunge confusion into the land

MetaPhysical:
Macof,
You still dey here dey pound this issue of methodology?

There has been tons of information supplied already, many of which you heard here first. Though they may deviate from what you accept as conventional and historical...but as a historian do you not agree that (1) no information is useless, (2) already established accounts could benefit more with help from some of the free information given here, and (3) you could help rearrange or sort thesse facts through the "methodologies" of inspection and give a professional feedback with a tenable structure?

Most of this so called information have been debunked and proven to be false and not facts at all.
So what exactly is the usefulness of a made up "information" by any of you?

This is the problem with not having a method and relying on your imagination
If every historian was treating history as something he can make up through his imagination, you would have no history

Obalufon:
You are sick in the head. regurgitating what you've been programmed to do .. You are quick to disprove what is not yet into your understanding you can't learn or improve on what you've been thought Mr "Macof too know" knowledge is not static... I'm sorry for you "if the world were dumb like you we would still be in darkness or stone age..Do you have time machine to confirm the claim ..person is giving you evidences of ancient contact and migration of people to their present location Yoruba did not spring out from a spot what made up Yoruba is collection of group of migrants from various part ..Do you think the ijebus are crazy claiming Sudan too or their king too is having imaginations ..Do you know we had ancient traders going as far as Sudan, our ancestors were not as dumb as you thought ..i have read about mass expulsion of jews or Hebrew from middle east to Africa

This is nothing more than a desperate rant and plea to be allowed to further disrespect the Yoruba and turn history everywhere over its head

Nothing of what you write here about what you think I "think" is even relevant to the topic

These recent rants really show the utter lack of content you guys have. Your delusions fall apart so easily that it is barely an inconvenience to disprove your claims and this is an admission... You very well indirectly admit your lack of consistency with established facts and use of imagination rather than methodology
You have no solid claim, all you have stands on your urge to escape what you think is an ill fate.. that is to have an African origin
But there is absolutely nothing that makes any people less deserving of respect for having an African origin... African origin is not a curse that needs to be washed away by claiming semitic origin
"knowledge of the sea is astonishing" "traders going as far as Sudan" ok? So?? Is that what other Africans were incapable of?
Yoruba ancestors were not dumb as I thought?? When did I make you think that I think Yoruba ancestors were dumb? Not having semitic origin is being dumb to you? Smh surely, come on surely you know you have a huge inferiority complex here... Which is an actual mental health issue that when big enough is associated with other issues like psychosis and the rest

Should we blame foreign religions and colonisation, anti-black/anti-african propaganda?

Obalufon:
..You will go mad soon you use your mouth so say it so shall it be...

LOL Have you run out of claims? No more new imaginations?

Obalufon:
Macof is a fool ..If everyone is like him there will never be advancement in the world , his brain is static not dynamic typical of a Monkey.. He only hold on to what he was taught in school no need of improvement ragged ass nigger ..Yoruba knowledge and civilization can't be born from the forest. which we reside now ....Worship of the Sea and Lagoon..the in depth knowledge we have about sea alone is astonishing ...Yoruba Science /physical is dying but the religion/spiritual is still surviving but for how long if person like you think everything is myth ..Greek and egyptian civilization that is highly revered is embedded in so call myth "it takes a wise person to decipher the secret ,,Philosophy gave birth to mathematic and physics

Outbursts of a mad man

This rant doesn't even remotely address the topic on ground

Olu317:
Ignorance is a disease.
Ferdinand de Saussure,says, ‘the surest way to prove a cultural contact between peoples is to adduce linguistic evidence', (Ferdinand de Saussure (1972) General HISTORY OF Africa).

See the table below.
EGYPT and YORUBA Cognates

1. Egypt: Wu (rise) Wu (rise)

2. Egypt: Eurea Rekrek (python/ Serpent)
Yoruba :Ere (Python / Serpent)

3. Egypt: Horise Heru (a great god)
Yoruba: Orisha(defied god/head/creator)

4.Egypt: Ged (to chant)
Yoruba: Igede (a chant)

4. Egypt : Ta (sell / offer)
Yoruba Ta (sell/offer)

5.Egypt: Sueg (a fool)
Yoruba: Suegbe (a fool)

6. Egypt: Kum (a club)
Yoruba:Kumo( a club)

7. Egypt: Enru (fear / terrible)
Yoruba: Eru (fear / terrible

8. Egypt: Odonit Heb (festival) (like Heb Sed meaning Festival of Sed)
Yoruba:Odon (festival)

9. Egypt: Ma or mi teper (to breath)
Yoruba: Mi. (to breathe)

10. Egypt: Khu (to kill) Spirit
Yoruba Ku (die)


11. Egypt: Hika (evil) Magic, divine power
Yoruba: Ika (evil)

12. Egypt: Unas (lake of fire) Lake of fire in Egyptian culture?
Yoruba: Una (fire)

13..Egypt: Tan (complete)
Yoruba: Tan (complete)

14. Beru (force of emotion)
Yoruba:Beru (fear)

15. Egypt : Em (smell)
Yoruba:Emi (smell)

16. Egypt: Pa (open)
Yoruba: Pa (break open)

17.Egypt: Edjo Djet (cobra)
Yoruba: Edjo (cobra)

18. Egypt: Ke Dehnet (hill) (like Dehnet Amentet meaning Hill of Amentet)
Yoruba: Oke( hill)

19.Egypt: Anubis (evil deity) Anpu - God of death and mummification
Yoruba: eniubi (evil person)

20.Egypt: Kan Wa (one: Middle Egyptian)
YorubaIkan/Okan:one)

An ignorant mad man calling someone ignorant


I thought you are saying Yoruba are Hebrews, what then is the purpose of your 20 "Egyptian words" ?

Plus those words actually do not mean what you claim they mean ... I just looked some of them up and corrected your mistakes, which anybody can easily do with an ancient Egyptian transliterator and through my one elective semester of Egyptology I could identify a few myself
I had to stop at a point cus frankly the whole list is bullshitt
Sources: http://medu.ipetisut.com/index.php?og=one. and Wiktionary

When you are so desperate to be what you are not you become confused, tell lies and can't differentiate fact from fiction

The surest way to prove cultural contact is indeed linguistic evidence.. Yet there is no linguistic evidence supporting your delusions
I mean of course... They are after all just in your head

Obalufon:
you are not a yoruba man Macof

Ok I'm Chinese right?

And it's a Hebrew wannabe like you that is
Talk about mental health problems

Obalufon:
Oyo younger than eastern Yoruba subgroup ? your problem is you are equating yoruba with other tribes.. you are undermining yoruba accomplishment as a race , i'm verse in yoruba religion and science ..

Accomplishment is not "having semitic origin"

Yoruba don't need to deluded herself with semitic origin to feel accomplished
It is inferiority complex to do so

Olu317:
They don't look nor had Yoruba's nitty gritty knowledge to understanding the cosmology of Yoruba ancestors. Yoruba brought ifaodu religion,which was the connection Yoruba ancestors and west African dwellers.

Therefore, it is from this point of contact, Yoruba language became the teacher's language ( in linguistic), to the aboriginal people who became partly speakers or loaned into such ethnic group's language that some scholars claimed, that Yoruba parted with some ethnic group, about 2000 years ago. Yoruba language was a lingual franca in some places in Egypt and West Africa at arrival of Yoruba in west Africa .

Obalufon:
I read lot of Akintoye journals he might not support east connection but will never doubt influence of sudan ,meditenarean , mauritanian ,Arabic because yoruba are well known long.distance traveller and trader in Ancient time ...You need to search your source of history not from yoruba located in Nigeria or ekiti alone go to benin republic Togo even closer shaki ,jebba and upper benin republic closer to Nikki kingdom you will learn more...Even igala and Nupe claim Migrating from Egypt ..

Contact is not the same as origin
And it is more evident that influences of the sudanic and Arabic language and culture passed through our Muslim west African neighbours like the Mande, Hausa and fulani than a direct contact between Yoruba and the Arab world. And such influences exist only among the northern Yoruba especially the Oyo who are considered younger than more Eastern Yoruba subgroups

So I take it that you are saying you've been to all this places on a research trip?

Obalufon:
journal on what macof we have no written history you can only learn our history from costodian of our Oral history Mr macof your professors with white man view will distort your mind from knowing the truth .i have known ilory before era of youtube..if i told you about my own maternal oral history regarding this issue ,you would never believe me that is why i use ilory for you to know different people view on yoruba history which i never believe in myself

And your Sheikh Abdul ilory or whatever he is called is a custodian of oral traditions? Not Baba Abimbola, not Baba Elebuibon and other prominent traditionalists who have maintained the aboriginal status of yorubas

Obviously you still didn't learn anything from my explanation of a historians work. you think historians do not make use of oral traditions?? And records do not have to be written, oral traditions are classified as oral records.
Smh. You just have it in your head that history is a free for all, all hands on deck, opportunity out of unemployment venture
And it appears it would be extremely difficult for you to comprehend the fact that history has consistent methods

Obalufon:
Sheikh Adam Abdullahi Al-ilory had his own history ...itan Yourba by Sheikh Adam Abdullahi Al-ilory.. i think you need to listen to it on youtube though i don't accept his history of yoruba but i can't totally discard his claim

This is your supplier of yoruba history? A man who has no exposure, no training in the matter of history nor of yoruba studies

A very devoted totally swallowed in Islam Sheikh is who you take seriously?
Not Prof. Falola, not Prof. Akintoye, not Prof. Eluyemi

And Youtube is how you spend your time learning Yoruba history? Not peer reviewed journals or books published and supported by research institutions of any history or humanities faculty? Not by travelling Yorùbáland and observing and participating in the traditions?

Do you now see where your problems come from? And why you can't tell fact from fiction?