₦airaland Forum

plaetton:
Lol.
My God, the Toothfairy, has been telling me to be a good boy since childhood. He even rewards me with $3.75 ( inflation adjusted), every year.

Infact, most of humankind's problems begin when they grow up and start listening to Yahweh and other middle East gods, instead of maintaining their steadfast simple devotion to the simple ways of the Toothfairy.

Infact, if we had all continued to listen to middle God's, we would have sooner destroyed ourselves, killing men, women and children for God.

cloudgoddess:
Why doesn't god give man the guidance to fix our country? Isn't that what prayer is for? Asking god to help you?
People have been asking god to help, nigeria is one of the most prayerful countries, and yet he isn't helping. Whereas places like china and netherlands and japan where they don't pray, yet they are prospering. If he would prefer to leave prayerful humans to f**k themselves over, yet allow non-prayerful humans to prosper, what is the point of prayer and why does the bible say "ask and you shall be given?"

Also, the free-will argument is debatable. God (supposedly) created us KNOWING the mental processes & emotional tendencies that lead to these problems in the first place (greed, anger, fear, etc) -- and the types of horrible atrocities that would result (since he knows the future). He gave us brains capable of feeling all of these things and acting on them under certain conditions & upbringing. Why didn't he just give us brains that were immune to greed, for example? That would have easily prevented the situation that you just described. He did not have to place these mental tendencies there in the first place.

He could have created human beings only capable of feeling compassion, love, honesty, tenderness. If he made our brains that way, so many problems, so much poverty, and so much death would be avoided. But he didn't. He purposely gave us flawed brains, and then, according to you, placed the blame on us for falling victim to the same brains he created. How exactly is that loving?

plaetton:
I still struggle to understand religious beliefs and faith .

I mean, Nigerians are a very prayerful people.
Infact, we spend a good portion of time praying for supernatural blessings and interventions in our daily affairs, to the point where it seems like a psychological addiction.

Like all addictions, we hardly take a minute to take stock, audit or re- evaluate our positions and our acts.

Now, there has been Chaos, a complete breakdown of the primary arteries of life and the economy in Nigeria for the past 2 months.

Where is the hand of God in all of this suffering , considering that we spend a lot of time and money whispering , shouting and beseeching God every hour, every day to save us from all the inconveniences of life ?

I am just trying to figure out what role religion plays in the lives of people who live ,struggle and suffer as we do here in Nigeria.

Is religion a necessary palliative for the suffering and confused masses, or an integral part of the Nigerian psyche which, itself , produces the type of chaos we see here ?

lordnicklaus:
The Arabic word translated as "illiterate" is the word "ummi" which also means one who has no insight of the past knowledge (former Holy Books) and not necessarily one who is unlettered cos' some Muslim scholars agree that Muhammad was learned but had no knowledge of the former Holy books (Torah and Berita khadasha [New Testament]). Your Qur'an says David was given the "Zabur" which means "Psalms" whereas not all Psalms were written by David. Some Psalms were by Asaph, some by Hezekiah, one by Moses, one by Habbakuk and one was probably by Samuel.

Logicbwoy:
The law was made for man and not man made for the law

MrPresident1:
Scholar8200 and KingEbukasBlog, please explain to me why Jesus Christ (God) had to come and die.

You guys are just unbelievable!

This is preposterous!

Logicbwoy:
Do you know what we call people who make laws for others but different laws for themselves?


HYPOCRITES

KingEbukasBlog:
I've always maintained that God is an embodiment of moral good and is not subject to his own laws . If we study the bible closely , it appears that God "disobeys" His own laws . The argument has been God makes laws for us, but seems to disobey those laws Himself. If this is true, so it is argued, God demands more of us than He does of Himself. Let’s explore this argument to test its validity.

Basic Elements of Law


1. Authority.

Law, by its very nature, requires a few basic elements. First, there must be an established authority to make the law. In the case of federal law, the United States consists of branches of duly elected representatives of the people who pass and enforce laws. When it comes to natural law, there are no written ordinances, but the authority that established the principles that govern nature (i.e. God) put them in place by virtue of the fact that He created nature and so has the right to order it as He pleases (cf. Jer. 33:25). Divine Law that is given by revelation is higher than any human law. It is not set by man although many laws of man derive their authority from divine law—and thus from God Himself. Just as God made the elements of the natural world with the laws that govern them, God made man as a spiritual being and He alone holds the ultimate authority to regulate his behavior (Ps. 119:105).

2. Rules.

A second element common to all law is some type of rules or regulations. All laws mandate certain things that must operate a certain way. A system without rules is said to be lawless. Any system that is governed by law operates within set rules and guidelines. It could be a speed limit. The law mandates “70 miles per hour” as the maximum speed at which a vehicle can travel on a certain road. It could be behavior. It is a crime to steal. Law BooksThe nature of the rules depends upon the nature of the thing regulated. In some cases the authority that enforces the rule is understood to stand outside of the rule. The highway patrolman who exceeds 70 miles per hour is not guilty if he does this to catch a driver who is speeding. The policeman that confiscates stolen property is not a thief. Part of their authority exempts them from some measure of accountability to the very laws they must enforce.

3. Jurisdiction.

A third element of all law is jurisdiction. For law to have meaning there must be some realm over which a given law has dominion. The ancient laws of the Hittite empire may be curious relics of antiquity but they no longer hold any power because there is no longer a Hittite empire. The realm and the region over which these laws once held power no longer exists. In regional governments the issue of jurisdiction is paramount. The authority of one state cannot enforce its laws on the citizens of another because it does not have jurisdiction. By the same token, if I violate a practice that is considered criminal in another jurisdiction, but is permitted within the county, state, or country where I live I am not guilty. A good example of this is the burka worn by Muslim women. A woman in the United States is not a criminal if she refuses to wear a burka even though it is required by law in countries such as Saudi Arabia.

4. Subjects.

Finally, in a very similar way, all law must involve subjects—that is, those who are under obligation to that law. We as Nigerians are obligated to obey the laws of our nation because we are properly subjects of the government which holds authority over us, and thus subject to its laws.


God’s Relationship to His Own Laws

1. Laws of Nature.

As we all know God is the authority who established these laws. There are set rules that define these laws. Laws of gravity demand that a rock falls to the ground—it doesn’t float up into the sky. Is God within the jurisdiction of natural law? A key difference between the picture of the God of the Bible and the concepts of pagan false religions is what is called transcendence. Greek GodsThe God of the Bible exists outside of the natural realm that He created. In other words, while Zeus, or Anubis, or Odin were themselves subject to certain laws of nature, the God of the Bible stands outside of the jurisdiction of natural laws. He is the “unmoved Mover.” He is the First Cause of all things! That means He can make an ax-head float (2 Kings 6:5-6). He can make time stand still (Josh. 10:12-13). He can make the shadow of the sundial go backwards (2 Kings 20:10-11). He is not under the jurisdiction of natural law, but very atom within this present universe, together with every soul made in His image is. They are subjects of the natural laws that God established over His creation. Because God transcends the natural universe, He is not a subject of His own creation, and is therefore not subject to the laws that govern it.

2. Moral or Religious Law.

What about moral or religious laws? There is an interesting example that concerns the Sabbath commandment. The rules required that no ordinary work was to be done on the seventh day (Exod. 20:10). This was a law that was not given until the Law of Moses was revealed (Neh. 9:14). It was a law that was not restated under the Law of Christ (Col. 2:16). That means that those who worked on the seventh day before the Law of Moses, as well as those who now live under Christ, and even those who were not a part of the Mosaic covenant during the time of the Israelite commonwealth were outside of its jurisdiction and were not, therefore, subject to its regulation. What about God? This law was drawn from what was said about God’s creation (Exod. 20:11). The present universe was made in six days, but Scripture tells us that after this was done, God “rested on the seventh day from all the work which He had done” (Gen. 2:2). Even before this was given as a law to the Israelites, God is said to have “blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it” (Gen. 2:3). The Hebrew writer, in one sense speaks of God’s works being “finished from the foundation of the world” (Heb. 4:3-4), but Jesus, when criticized for healing on the Sabbath said, “My Father has been working until now, and I have being working” (John 5:16-17). Did God violate His own Sabbath law? No. He stood outside of its jurisdiction and like those before and after the Law of Moses, He was not subject to its regulation.


3. Genocide.

This may seem reasonable when we are talking about things like the Sabbath law, but what is most frequently criticized is God’s treatment of His creation. That is, He commands us not to murder, but then He has commanded the extermination of the Canaanites, and Amalekites. Or, He commands us not to harm one another but He promises to punish the wicked throughout all eternity. Is He breaking His own laws in these examples? What are the basic elements of law in these examples? God is, once again, the established authority and He has set the rules that govern appropriate behavior. Yet, has God defined all taking of life as wrong? No! It is true that man is not to avenge himself (Rom. 12:19), and God condemns murder (Exod. 20:13), but He grants to the civil authority the right to punish even to the point of death those guilty of certain laws (Rom. 13:4). Is the executioner a murderer? No. Like the policeman who speeds to catch someone speeding, the executioner in his authority to carry out punishment is (to a measure) exempt from accountability to the law he is enforcing (cf. Num. 35:27). God on some specific occasions commanded Israel (in essence) to act as His executioner (Deut. 7:1-5; 25:17-19; 1 Sam. 15:1-5). The Canaanites and Amalekites were among some of the most wicked people that history has every known (Deut. 9:4; Ps. 106:34-37). God bore with their wickedness for a time in order to give them time to repent (cf. Gen. 15:16). When the time came, He used Israel as the vehicle by which He ended their ability to do any more wickedness. Did He violate His own law? No. First, because He was never under the jurisdiction of this law, nor a subject to obey it, but also because the people whom He used to carry out His punishment were not violating any divine law themselves. They were carrying out lawful punishment—in this case in the form of warfare.

4. Eternal Punishment.

What about eternal punishment? The issue of jurisdiction is applicable to this question as well. God is not under the jurisdiction of the laws He has set for His creation. When Judgment Day comes the nature of the present jurisdiction will be changed. What rules will govern the age to come? The jurisdiction of the realm of the saved will not be the same as the jurisdiction of the realm of the condemned. For example, to some measure, in that age the present laws of nature will be changed. In the jurisdiction of the saved there will be no more death, nor sorrow, nor pain because for them “the former things have passed away” (Rev. 21:4). On the other hand, some of these things will exist for the lost—“the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever” (Rev. 14:11). Is it cruel for God to punish the wicked eternally? Let’s consider this from another angle. If I create something—a piece of pottery, a bird house, a painting, or a machine—what rights do I have over that thing I have created? Am I cruel to the pottery if I reshape it into another vessel? (cf. Jer. 18:5-6). Have I sinned against the bird house if I decide to use it for something else? If the machine turns out to be dangerous, am I a monster if I make certain it is kept away from ever causing any harm to anyone ever again? No.

In our creation it is God that formed the molecules and synaptic responses that form our physical bodies (Ps. 139:13-16). We are His creation—He can do with us as He pleases. God asked Judah, “can I not do to you as this potter?” (Jer. 18:6). Above all other creatures in this universe, He has blessed us by placing within us a spirit that is said to be in His image (Gen. 1:26-27)—we are from this point onward eternal creatures (Eccl. 3:11). That is a blessing! But it is a blessing that demands responsibility. The nature and demands of God are such that all creatures that bear His likeness must conform to His law. For those who fail in this (which is to say all who are morally accountable in age and ability) He has made provision for this failure by the atonement of Christ. What is God to do with those of His creation whom He has made eternal who remain in rebellion to His authority and refuse His regulation? Since He is not a subject of His own law, and therefore not under the jurisdiction of His own authority we cannot even compare any action He takes to punish wrong with committing wrong—remember the executioner is not a murderer. Confiscation is not theft. Those who reject the gospel of Christ establish themselves as a type of eternally dangerous machine that must be forever put where it can never harm the subjects of God’s kingdom ever again—that is essentially what hell is. Is this cruel on God’s part? No, it is His right as Creator and the transcendent authority over His creation.

Reference : http://focusmagazine.org/does-god-violate-his-own-laws.php

cc : winner01 , Joshthefirst , bxcode , MrPresident1, gatiano , unphilaz , Muafrika2, mykohayz Richirich713, MrsPhyno, sukkot, OLAADEGBU , vooks, UyiIredia , Scholar8200, Jeromejnr , plaetton, DeepSight , malvisguy212 Kay17 , PastorAIO , Rawblings , Ayomikun37

KingEbukasBlog:
Well who believes magic tricks and performances happen without a magician

KingEbukasBlog:
Well who believes magic tricks and performances happen without a magician

JuicyGee:
Thank you very much.. You have to idea how much you've helped me. God bless you!

ilevic:
God bless u for this but I am not personally comfortable with this as I appears as of as Christians, we av a ual nature. the nature of God that bounds us with God and the nature that give us chance to sin. I will like to refer u to read 1John 3:1-10. particularly Verses 6-10.
NIV:See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him.
2
NIV:Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
3
NIV:All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.
4
NIV:Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.
5
NIV:But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin.
6
NIV:No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.
7
NIV:Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.
8
NIV:The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.
9
NIV:No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

Peace be unto u.

lexiconkabir2:
does your god regrets?

lexiconkabir2:
No one can see Allah

malvisguy212:
Justification is the concept that provides
our belief with the assuredness of its
truth. People believe things for reasons,
which provide the warrant for their belief.Without these reasons,you do not have knowledge of what you believe. If a belief is JUSTIFIED, then we have the right to believe it. Atheists got it wrong, there view was; " since you cannot know something with 100% certainty, you cannot obtain the truth (or knowledge), you just have to believe ,God did it". The bible say otherwise, in Isaiah 1:18 God is calling human to "come and let us REASON together"

This brief journey into obtaining knowledge of what you belief was done in order to show the relationship between FAITH,BELIEF AND TRUTH . Christianity requires faith, faith requires
belief, and belief requires TRUTH.This is not just a mere belief but rather a trust that is characterized as knowledge.


Notice how Paul incorporates all three of these elements in his letter to the
Romans, “if you confess with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved” (Romans 10:9). You cannot "confess with your mouth" without knowing the truth.

No matter how hard I try, I cannot make myself believe that there is a pink elephant in the room right now. I do not have direct free will over my beliefs, i.e. I can’t make myself believe something. I also cannot just tell people what to believe or exhort them to believe it. But if I don’t have free will over my beliefs, how can the Bible hold me responsible for them? The answer lies in the fact that I do have responsibility as to where I choose to focus my mind. I have free choice in body movements and where to place my attention (what you choose to think about). I have to choose to be preoccupied with something to change my belief or increase my certainty in that belief .Faith in the biblical sense means trust or confidence, confident in what we know to be TRUE. You do not have to be 100% certain in a belief for it to count as knowledge.

The bible say faith alone cannot save , why? because what you have faith in
must be TRUE, Biblical faith is accurate knowledge combined with ACTIVE TRUST Faith and knowledge are not opposed to each other. So Trusting faith alone does NOT save, but instead what is trusted MUST be true.

The faith Jesus had was not an absence of knowledge, but was based upon an intimate knowledge of his Father. We too can gain knowledge to make our faith richer.

malvisguy212:
In the Gospels, a rich, young man approached Jesus and said to him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” Jesus gave the infamous reply,“Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.” This story is
found in Matthew, Mark, and Luke; critics of Jesus’ claims to deity often use it as ammunition in their case for a non-
divine Jesus. It seems, they argue, that
Jesus is denying deity here by refusing
the title ‘GOOD’ as it is something reserved solely for God. I contend that even a surface-level reading of this narrative does not even remotely support that conclusion.
I don’t see how Jesus’ clarification of
God’s nature is equivalent to him
denying deity. This is akin to someone
coming to me and calling me, “Dr. Paul.” I respond by saying, “Why do you call me
doctor? No man can be a doctor, only he
who holds a doctorate.”

I can either mean one of two things:

1. No one can be a doctor unless he
holds a doctorate.
2. I do not hold a doctorate.
3. Therefore, I am not a doctor.


or…

1. No one can be a doctor unless he
holds a doctorate.
2. I hold a doctorate.
3. Therefore, I am a doctor.

By asking “Why do you call me doctor?”,
am I denying my title? Of course not. I
am simply clarifying what the title
means. I am neither validating nor
rejecting the title. In any case, I don’t
have a doctorate (yet!) but the point still
stands.

You can see how such reasoning is
completely absurd, and yet this is what
we see when critics use Jesus’ words in
this passage to try to show his non deity. Having said all of that, let’s have another look at what Jesus said in this passage.

He only said two statements:

1. Why do you call me good?
2. No one is good except God

The only piece of information that Jesus
gave is this: No one is good but God.
There are 2 ways to understand his
statement:

1. Only God is good.
2. I am not good.
3. Therefore, I am not God.

or

1. Only God is good.
2. I am good.
3. Therefore, I am God.

In this specific instance, from these
words alone, Jesus does make known to
us which of these he meant. It is both
ignorant and presumptive of anyone to
use this passage, alone, to argue for
Jesus’ non-deity. Why should the first
reading be the desirable one over the
second reading? Jesus’ statement that
only God is good does not, itself, tell us
whether he was affirming or denying
being God.

But if we keep reading, we find that
Jesus sheds some light on what he
meant. Jesus answers the man’s original
question about obtaining eternal life
with this“You know the commandments:

‘You shall not murder, you shall not
commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.'”

The man responds :”Teacher, I have kept all of these since I was a boy.”

Then Jesus finishes with: “One thing you
lack. Go, sell everything you have then
come, follow me.”

To summarize: In response to the man’s
question, “What must I do to gain eternal life?”, Jesus responds by telling him to
follow the commandments. But which
commandments does Jesus list?
Notice that Jesus only lists the
commandments that dealt with civil
affairs. The Ten Commandments of
Moses were divided into 2 parts: Laws on
dealing with God and Laws on dealing
with others. Respectively, these were the
moral and civil laws. Jesus names the
civil law for the young man and the
young man responds like any good Jew
would, These I have kept since I was
young.” The man was doing great on
keeping the civil law, but not so much
with the moral law. Instead of then
quoting the first four commandments to
the young man,the commandments that
dealt with man’s relationship with God, Jesus told the young man, “Sell your
possessions and follow me.” In other
words, “Your god is your money. Get rid
of that and follow me.” Jesus is equating
obeying the moral law with following
himself. The manner in which men can
obtain eternal life is by getting rid of the
false gods in their lives and following
Jesus , replacing them with him!
This claim is monumental! And it gives us
an answer to our initial dilemma. Did
Jesus deny or affirm his deity in asking,
“Why do you call me good?” I think the
answer is clear in light of the rest of that
conversation with the young man. Jesus
equated following himself with keeping
the moral law and obeying the
commandments that governed man’s
relationship with God. Thus, in bringing
up this passage as ammunition for a
non-divine Jesus, the critic shoots
himself in the foot by bringing to the
table a text in which Jesus clearly claims
deity.

cloudgoddess:
You're talking as if the bible is not just as chock-full of contradictions. You and OP need to carefully read your own book before you start criticizing the Qu'ran, they are both far more similar than they are different.

Exodus 21:20
If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish. If he will not do these three things for her, then she shall go out for nothing, without payment of money.

Deuteronomy 21:15
"If a man has two wives, the one loved and the other unloved, and both the loved and the unloved have borne him sons, if the firstborn son belongs to the unloved,"

ButterFlyEffect:
I certainly relate to some things in your post. I too lost my religion but I never lost my belief in God.

I'm Agnostic, not to be confused with Atheism. I certainly do believe in a higher power (God) but a few years ago I completely cut myself off from any form of organized religion. I grew up going to church regularly but I never found any peace of mind, I became uncomfortable and I started asking way too many questions, not about God but about the whole concept of organized religion. I felt conflicted at first as well. And when people ask for explanations I usually say something like "I don't practice any religion, I have my own personal relationship with God" Some people get it and others don't. Some invite me to their church services which I politely decline. Some tell me I am confused because I'm from a mixed background. haha. But at the end of the day it's still my own personal decision regardless of what other will think or say.

SexyStrawberry:
Oga ur story about the snake, are u for real abi na the usual Nigerian movie u dey narrate? U must be a good movie director

DLondonboiy:
Can a good Nairalander help me explain Luke 16: 9-11?
What was Jesus trying to say?
Brother lalasticlala, come and help us.


9And I tell you, make friends for yourselves by means of unrighteous mammon (deceitful riches, money, possessions), so that when it fails, they [those you have favored] may receive and welcome you into the everlasting habitations (dwellings).

10He who is faithful in a very little [thing] is faithful also in much, and he who is dishonest and unjust in a very little [thing] is dishonest and unjust also in much.

11Therefore if you have not been faithful in the [case of] unrighteous mammon (deceitful riches, money, possessions), who will entrust to you the true riches?

Oya pastors make una come oo

malvisguy212:
read the op and use your sense.

malvisguy212:
To entice his followers to fight in suicidal raids
and wars, Muhammad created an image of
Islamic paradise that made it difficult for his followers to resist, The promise of everlasting sex with virgins. Muhammad knew for sure that sex would sell very well among his warriors.

Surah 4:24:“Also forbidden for you are
married women, EXCEPT those who have
fallen in your hands as PRISONERS OF WAR .”

Still the risk of death discourage some Muslims
from participating in Allah’s wars. Hence,
Muhammad came up with an ingenious solution to the problem. Thus, Muhammad
designed an evil plan. He excited his believers
with these promises:

Surah 44:54: “Thus (shall it be), and We will
wed them with Houris, pure, beautiful ones"

The above quranic verse are in harmony with this hadith:

Sunan al-Tirmidhi, Hadith Number 3834:
Narrated by Al-Miqdam ibn Ma’dikarib:
Allah’s Messenger (peace be upon him)
said, “THE MARTYR RECEIVES SIX GOOD THINGS: he is forgiven at the first
shedding of his blood; he is shown his abode
in Paradise; he is preserved from the
punishment in the grave; he is kept safe
from the greatest terror; he has placed on
his head the crown of honor, a ruby of
which is better than the world and what it
contains; he is married to SEVENTY-TWO
WIVES OF THE MAIDENS WITH LARGE DARK EYES of ; and is made intercessor for seventy
of his relatives.”

Muhammad was able to preach his message
effectively using sex as a commodity in
exchange for his men’s support to fight his
battles, is a win win situation in fighting for Allah cause. Should a muslim fight, he will get his shear among the prisoners of war. Should the muslim got martyr in allah cause, he will be awarded with even beautiful virgin, it is not uncommon to hear Muslims say in boast to the infidels, “We love death more than you love life.” A religion that encourages death can only come from the one who brought death to the human race. The Bible describes death as an enemy. ( 1 Corinthians 15:26).

1 corinthians 15:25
The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

Sensuality in the Koran inspires young Muslim
men to die for Allah’s cause. A Holy God will never resort to sexual incentive as a means to secure believers. This is absolutely improper and blasphemous to the concept of Divine Holiness. However, in the Koran we find Allah promising Muslim men with pleasures of the flesh, both in this life and in the life to come. This makes Islam a very carnal religion.

malvisguy212:
The Greek term for "firstborn" is
prototokos. Firstborn of all creation does NOT mean christ was "born first" or created first, NO it refer to christ POSITION of SUPREMACY by virtue
of the fact that He is the Creator of all
things and everything came through Him
, see verse 16. The word "firstborn" in Colossians 1:15 refers to positional priority not temporal priority. For example In Psalm 89:27 King
David is placed as FIRSTBORN,but David
was actually the last-born son of Jesse.
Isreal is call "FIRSTBORN" but Israel was not the first nation that God brought into existence, but POSITIONALLY as God's chosen and privileged nation
Israel was supreme.

The simply conclusion in colossian 1 was, the word firstborn was NOT use to described chronological oder of event. It was use to express Christ's priority as the CREATOR because all OTHER created being came through HIM as verse 16 say and I quote:

" FOR IN HIM ALL THINGS WERE CREATED : things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been
created THROUGH HIM and for him. "

There is a Greek word which means FIRST CREATED (protoktistos) but Paul did not use this word of Christ.

ifenes:
Jesus's story is an allegory to make the Sun interesting. All attributes given to Jesus are attributes of the Sun.

Silsilah:
You're talking rubbish, if you agree that Islam forbids that we marry from our family lineage, how then did you equate a girl out of wedlock as part of the family? Let me assume your brain is on recess due to fuel scarcity, can you point one person from your Google copy and paste or one misguided and uninformed element misleading you to give one example of such incestous action in Islamic histroy from among the Muslim. That's when I will engage retards like you in intellectual discuss... I'm waiting

blackjack21:
ok. Was Solomon a Christian too?

blackjack21:
That's not the purpose of the thread

Gombs:
This wan that no one wants to discuss with you, and mods sef don't want to help you...


How can I help na?

ifenes:
How did Yahweh create the Sun,Moon and Stars? Big lie! That doesn't explain that verse.

Now you called Jesus a Sun god, a mere Carpenter from Pakistan.

ifenes:
Jesus is just another Sun god,nothing more. Let the Pagan worship of the Sun continue tomorrow,which is another Sun-day.