₦airaland Forum

OLAADEGBU: So you admit that you are a serpent that doesn't need a leg to stand on?

Not admitting that at all. You sure know how to twist people's words, don't you? You are just as proficient at twisting our words as you are at twisting the Word of God.

Eve heard all that before but ended up doubting, denying and disobeying the word of God. Read the book of Genesis and discover the genesis of the blame game:

"Adam blamed Eve, Eve blamed the snake and the snake didn't have a leg to stand on" 

Much like you are doing today. You have the Word of God which teaches only agricultural tithe requirements, yet you deny it for the man-made doctrine of a monetary tithe.

John 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

It may be that Image123 thinks he is doing God a service (favor) by his railing accusations.

He is not.

DrummaBoy, thank you for your concern. As I said, I seek no sympathy. I survive on what God has given me to survive on. I suppose if we were to know the value of the widows two mites that she gave, they may be worth more today than what the government gives me for my support.

But God is faithful. He will never fail. He puts it on one family member's heart to pay my internet so that I have to ability to keep in touch with family members more than 800 miles away. This allows them to see me through my monitor's built-in webcam. Though I cannot see them, I take comfort in hearing their voices on a regular basis.

God is good. He gives me what I need, not what I want. And I can say He has never failed me in the more than 30 years I have been serving Him.

frosbel: Oh yeah, no wonder you are as blind as bat a spiritually, I really doubt you operate under the spirit of Christ. Many physically blind people will be saved into the new heaven and new earth while spiritually blind bigots like you will be cast into outer darkness.

Your brother Ola has exposed himself for the hypocrite that he is and now you have taken over - you both have no kindness, no heart, just religion and deadness.

Thank you, frosbel.

I am saddened that one that names the name of Christ could speak so cruelly. But then again I have to expect it more and more. We are living in the time that the prophet Isaiah spoke of in 740 B.C.; a time when men would put forth darkness for light, calling good evil and evil good.

Candour: Are you also trying to catch some fun with Mark's post?

Hope you're still exulting in the ecstacy of the enjoyment you've just had at his expense?

You make fun of a blind man and tell him not to take offense? Your value system beats the imagination

I hope your enjoyment lasts very long indeed

I recall reading a story once about some young lads that made fun of a bald headed preacher. They were attacked and torn to shreds by bears.

No wonder David told his servant he would not touch God's anointed, eh?

Image123: mr, you're not the first disabled fellow. Stop using it for sympathy talk. Sorry but the whole section does not need to know or be reminded about your status. Take it graciously, no bi my fault say windows of heaven no open for your room joor. Your check is gone by 3rd of the month, hose fault or business na. i do not mean to offend you anyway, sincerely. But pls save it.

Did I say I was looking for sympathy? No, I did not. If I were looking for sympathy, I would be giving people on this forum my address and asking for cards and money. I have not done that, nor do I plan to.

It takes money to survive. My disability check is less than 600 dollars a month. Rent takes 400 of it, electricity, 105-112 a month depending on whether it is winter or summer. The rest is groceries. Have you tried to live on 85 to 90 dollars worth of groceries for a month lately?

Keep up with your false accusations. I'm sure the Lord is pleased with them... NOT!

Image123: oh tell us more about being true to God. You seem to think its about making endless circular talk about tithes, ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth? What is the big deal about staying off tithe talk on NL for just two months? Don't you have anything else of importance to say? Meanwhile, you were even allowed to continue saying all your discuss on this thread. When tithe talk is made akin to tying your hands, its clear to the discerning where your treasure really lies. Like mr C said, it's a question of honour, you cannot serve God and mammon.

no love of money here at all. Disability check is gone by the third of the month every month; paying Rent, electric and groceries. No luxuries.

Any other false accusations you want to throw out there?

Btw, Where did you say we could find that verse in the Bible that tells us God requires us to tithe our money?

OLAADEGBU: Don't mind those creepy crawlies, they are used to biting themselves many atimes.

Listen on to this conversation between two descendants of vipers:

Snake #1:  "Are we poisonous?"

Snake #2:  "I don't know. . . . Why asking?"

Snake #1:  "I've just bitten my tongue." 

(Who said that the old serpent shot himself in the foot? no wonder he had no leg to stand on)

we don't need a leg to stand on. We have the Word of God that supports us completely.

Where did you say we could find that verse in the Bible that tells us God requires us to tithe our money?

OLAADEGBU: Don't mind those creepy crawlies, they are used to biting themselves many atimes.

Listen on to this conversation between two descendants of vipers:

Snake #1:  "Are we poisonous?"

Snake #2:  "I don't know. . . . Why asking?"

Snake #1:  "I've just bitten my tongue." 

(Who said that the old serpent shot himself in the foot? no wonder he had no leg to stand on)

Your railing accusations have no merit.

DrummaBoy: Image123 please before you go consider the rules you put down.

1. How does it affect the discussion at hand?

2. Does is not bind the liberty of others? The rules I suggested you propose should pertain to these thread alone and not other threads.

In the light of this, I suggest that the rule you proposed be modified to:

Discussants are not permitted to quote an opposing discussants in other threads; nor are they permitted to refer to this thread in other threads in the duration in which the discourse ensues.

If this is fine with you and Candour/Miwerds, then we would make it law. If not, we may just as well shop for another tither to do the job.

I have no problem with this work-up of the rule.

Candour: wish you well with your terms.

Bye bye and take care too

it seems this discussion is at an impasse. When a discussant makes terms that tie your hands from being true to God, and they will not relent, you can see the real motive behind the terms.

We may not get any to coherently and respectively discuss the issue of tithes with us.

By the way, I received your email, and am working on adding that in. Great suggestion!

Image123: The conditions are in line with the motive of this thread. i simply picked two months as a test point, its not a benchmark. If the primary discussants are not interested in just discuss but are hypocritically debating elsewhere, what is the point then? My terms are very clear. meanwhile, you can go shopping any other person who is interested in your discussion. Thanks.

How can you say that correcting error on another board would be "hypocritical debating"?

Your demand that we refrain from posting in another tithe thread is preposterous. As I said, If God leads me to post in another thread, I will obey God. If there is wrong in another thread and God lays it on my heart to give the correction according to the Word of God, why is that such a big deal?

One would think you would be glad that Christians point out error and use the Bible to correct that error... instead, you attempt to prevent them from posting truth.

Rules and Regulations I propose should be observed in this discussion at hand:

1. No name calling, but if Scripture shows one to be posting foolishness, then one should be allowed to post that it is foolishness, providing that one provides Scripture to prove that it is indeed foolishness;

2. Questions limited to one at a time. If necessary, a single question can be broken down into separate parts; e.g., "After the car hit the pedestrian, the driver sped off down the street, turning the corner, vanishing out of sight." Question: "If you saw the car, which way did it turn? b) left or c) right"

3. Because of my blindness, time must be considered in posts as being non-essential. My spelling skills are near exceptional, but sadly, my typing skills are not the best due to my blindness. At times I may use my DraganNaturallySpeaking to audibly post my answer. (the program automatically transcribes it into text as I speak) At other times, I may use my keyboard. (those times may be more noticeable, as my answer may take longer to post because of trying to remember exact position of keys)

4.As suggested by DrummaBoy, this is only a discussion. We should each enter the discussion with the sole purpose, not to prove one or the other is right, but rather to prove that the Word of God is our final authority.

Candour, if you have any suggested rules to add, I am open to suggestions.

And, providing the nature of the rules the tithers set forth, the agreement is yet to be determined.

I cannot agree. As I said, if God lays it on my heart to answer a wrong being posted in another tithe thread, then I must obey God rather than man.

We cannot agreee to man's conditions at the detriment of correcting false doctrine.

Image123: Okay, okay, drumboy. You know what. i'll enter the DISCUSSION on one condition, that the discussants do not engage in any other tithe thread, or introduce tithe into other threads for the next two months apart from this thread. i no get time, i don tire for this tithe tithe talk all the time, but i go try sha. My brothers are simply tired, it is antitithers that are taking this thing as a do or die, like an addiction.
So, i await their agreement(Mark and Candour).
BTW, i do not think myself a theologian. Thanks.

I will not bow to such a demand, Image123.

If God lays it on my heart to open a tithe thread, or to post in a tithe thread, I will obey God rather than man.

Something tells me that even if we were to agree not to open or post in a tithe thread for two months as you requested, tithers would no doubt be opening and posting in tithe threads in an attempt to deceive readers over the two months that non-tithers were not posting.

So, no, we cannot agree to such a demand.

Image123: Like i have said, it is not the tenth that is eating you up. It is something else. It is not the tenth that is making you or others to have false hopes. People are given false hope using anything, offerings, firstfruits, healing, prayers, churchwork, even preaching or mission, investments etc. If indeed, it is not about the amount, the percentage, the ratio, the proportion of ones income, then why on earth are we discussing or debating on the amount, the percentage, the ratio, the proportion of ones income? Is that not crazy?

Why do you falsely accuse as you do? We do not have "false hopes." Our hope is anchored in Jesus Christ, who loved us and gave Himself for us. He who abolished in his flesh the commandments contained in ordinances. He who, in His great love, opened the door to Salvation for the Gentile nations after that the Jews rejected Him.

Why discuss it? Because there are many false prophets in the world. Many false prophets who have set up their own dominions, deceiving the simple into handing their monies over to them... all in the name of God They teach their own commandments, deceiving the hearts of the simple with their man-made commands that are not from God.

Those who are Christ's are His voice in the Earth today, and must speak out when such deceitful leaders are robbing the hearts of the simple through their "good words and fair speeches".

Pastor Kun: ^^^

Is it that no tither or tithe collector is sure enough of this tithe doctrine to boldly come out and discuss the subject matter in a organised manner

I think the problem is, they do not want to discuss... instead, they want to debate.

We have enough "debate" threads on NL. Really no need to start another.

Discussion looks at the matter in an entirely different frame of light. Not arguing or name calling, as always happens in the debates. But rather, reasoning.

The Prophet Isaiah wrote in 740 B.C., "Come now, and let us reason together..." As Christians, we have done too much "debating" lately. Our "debates" have turned into something that, as DrummaBoy so rightly pointed out, "is not edifying."

James 4:1 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?

Candour: Just reply the mail and we are good to go

Will do!

Candour: Hi Mark Miwerds, I just sent you a mail. Pls check and reply.

Cheers

Hi Candour,

Just checked email. Said I could not receive it because we are not connected. Whatever that means. Is there a feature here on NL where I can befriend you to connect?

Received the same message when DrummaBoy tried to email me.

If you are on Facebook, you can send me a message there. Search for Mark Miwerds.

DrummaBoy: @ Mark Miwerds

I, first, want to thank you sir for your willingness to partake of the project in spite of your disability (Mark is blind). I trust God to bless and increase you, sir. I like the idea of an "ally" that Gombs suggested. If both of you agree on having allies to work through this discuss/debate with, I would recommend Candour to you. He is the best. You can PM him and both of you could get discussing on how to make your presentations solid.

@All

I really I'm not too eager to moderate this thread because it will deny me the joy of joining forces with other "anti" tithers. So the earlier a moderator is agreed upon by the discussants/debators the better. I like the idea of HumblebyGrace being moderator bc that will help us have a real moderator with a whip in hand to handle lawlessness on the thread.

I am trusting God that this thread will end all debates on tithing on Nairaland and even help become a reference point on tithing matters on the www. I hope to put the texts from the presentations on my blog and possibly, someday, draft it out to a book format in print for those who care to read in my own sphere of influence.

I thank everyone who has shown interest for the success of this project.

DrummaBoy, thank you for your kindness. I am sorry that I had not answered before now. My wife drove me to the store for my month's supply of groceries.

I am OK with HBG being the Moderator. That is, if HBG is willing to Moderate. I am also not against an ally, and am willing to have Candour as an ally. Again, if Candour is willing to do so.

I have been working on some points I would like to present and probably should email whoever will be my ally with those points with an open mind for suggestions for the discussion. I am not sure how to get my email address to whoever is willing to partner with this blind old man, is putting the email on the forum wise? I can delete it after my ally acknowledges he has it. I will not post it until I know for sure I have an ally.

Candour: Or PDP choosing NTA to moderate the presidential debate

But on a serious note, anybody can actually moderate. It changes nothing at all in my opinion.

Exactly! A Moderator merely keeps time and post count, corrects those who begin to get unruly, etc..

DrummaBoy seems to know a lot about this type of discussion and how it should operate. That is why I nominated him to be Moderator.

quivah: she brother,she..
And Tgirl isn't referring to this particular debate..

thanks for clearing that up. Sorry if I offended anyone.

Tgirl4real: You just disappeared from the debate. What happend?

I think he was saying that during the debate he may say a few things that he holds to be truth. He was not necessarily saying he would share at this point in time.

quivah: #takes a seat. .


Along the line,I will love to drop my opinion on the topic..

listening

So everybody knows what I look like, I present this Bobblehead. Made to look exactly like me in the face, my wife says.

Two things disturb me about the modern monetary tithe doctrine:

1. That a man who supposed to know God's will for the Church would preach it despite the fact that it has no Scriptural support whatsoever.
2. That the saints in the pews aren't reading the Bible for themselves and discovering that the preacher is attempting, and succeeding with some, to extort money from them.

I nominate DrummaBoy as Moderator of the Discussion, for reasons that should be obvious.

It is clear that he has a clear understanding of how to moderate such discussions.
His reasoning for initiating the discussion is not for a theological war, but for theological understanding.

In all our getting, we should endeavor to get understanding.

After nine hours of much needed sleep, I am refreshed.

I will check in later this evening. I have been up for the last twenty-one hours, and it is wearing on me.

DrummaBoy: I came across a scripture in the New Testament that I believe indicts me and probably everyone of us that comes to this forum to debate theological issues:



The moment theological discusses transcend teaching in patience and meekness, it becomes a tool satan can use to divide the body of Christ. We should all avoid this.

I need not go into an exposition of what these verses mean; they are quite self explanatory.

My position on tithing is clear as noon day on this forum; but the back and forth, bickering and fighting between pro and anti tithers is not helping genuine seekers of the truth of the subject of tithing today. So for this reason, I propose a theological discuss between two prominent individuals in the two halves that these debates have shurred up: Mark Miwerds and OLAADEGBU.

Please note that this shall be a discuss and not a debate per se.

It is all my initiative to give flesh to the tithing palaver, if I may use that word.

I would suggest the following and propose it to the two candidates on the Tithes and Offering thread currently running 107 pages and still counting but which unfortunately has degenerated into some what of a fist fight. lol!!:

1. Let the two candidates express their desire to take up the challenge for a discuss and we will carry on. If it happens one of the candidate refuses the challenges, I propose that another person could take his place or other could nominate one person. I think the idea should be that the discuss should be btw two people only (like the Deep Sigh vs. Mr Anony discuss on Trinity). Others may add their views but the two primary discussant will not respond to them directly; except on some other matters not pertaining to the point of discussion at the moment.

2. When the two discussants have been chosen, the two will agree on the rules and regulation that will govern the discuss. E.g no insults, no jibes, methods of response; lenght of response; etc. They would also agree on who their moderator will be. For now, I appoint myself interim moderator but will step down when they both make their choices.

3. I will suggest that the discussant agree on some 10 points each that both will present as their formidable reason for supporting or not supporting tithing, each. These points will be discussed back and forth; just like the Deep/Anony thread: https://www.nairaland.com/1341464/anony-deep-sight-verse-verse

4. They two will agree on other matters with the interim moderator and others chipping suggestions, queries and contributions to make the discuss successful.

5. My prayer is that by the time the two theologians have succeded in teaching these doctrines, we will all have something to learn and hopefully tithes debates will no longer be dirty on nairaland.

I invite other contributions.

interested.

OLAADEGBU: Let Them Alone

"Ephraim is joined to idols: let him alone" (Hosea 4:17).

The Lord is long-suffering, and those who speak in His name should be also. There do come times, however, when further witness becomes useless or even harmful, or when continued interaction merely invites contamination with ungodliness. In such cases we must simply leave such people alone, following them with prayer and trusting God alone to deal with them.

Such was the ten-tribe nation of Israel, led by the tribe of Ephraim, just before God sent them into Assyrian captivity. God, through the prophet Hosea, told Judah henceforth to let them alone--they were hopelessly given over to pagan evolutionist idolatry. The words "joined to" in today’s verse mean, literally, "under the spell of."

The Lord Jesus used similarly harsh language in reference to the hypocritical Pharisees of His own day: "Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch" (Matthew 15:14).

There are other similar warnings. Of those who come, "having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof," Paul says, "from such turn away" (2 Timothy 3:5). He has also warned us to "shun profane and vain babblings |that is, the empty philosophizing of those who reject God|: for they will increase unto more ungodliness" (2 Timothy 2:16). "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them" (Ephesians 5:11).

Most, if not all, such warnings seem in context to apply especially to people who once knew and understood the truth, perhaps even professing to accept it for a time, and then knowingly rejected it. When such men oppose our testimony, God says to let them alone; He can deal with them better than we. HMM

For more . . . .

prayers will do you no good as long as you continue teaching the false doctrines you espouse.

Psalms 66:18 (KJV) 18 If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear [me]:

Job 35:13 (KJV)
Surely God will not hear vanity, neither will the Almighty regard it.

Isaiah 59:2 (KJV)
But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid [his] face from you, that he will not hear.

I already have God in my life.

I see your problem. You are looking on the internet to find God when you should be looking in the Bible instead.

OLAADEGBU: This is another attention seeker looking for his prey. You better tell your brothers in crime to clear off this thread as you all operate under the spirit of antichrist.

I agree, Olaadegbu. YOU are another attention seeker looking for your prey. You'd better tell your brothers in crime to clear off this thread as you all operate under the spirit of antichrist.

Glad you finally admitted to that.