₦airaland Forum

LordReed:
I am sure we can accommodate such a topic.

Good!
So if you agree that there has never been any fake thing without the original somewhere. Now religion has been the real reason why most of you guys wants to be addressed as "ATHEISTS" as you can't figure out the purpose of religion in our society.

The gross evil deeds perpetrated by members and leaders of religion throughout the world has been on a grand scale hence religion has been the major cause of the problem we are facing on this planet.

So you guys justifiably picked ATHEISM to rubbish religion completely that is why i prefer the topic:

WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF RELIGION IN THE HUMAN SOCIETY?

Let's deal with that!🙂

LordReed:
Sure bro.
Calling on DeepSight, budaatum, jesusjnr2020, DtruthSpeaker, TenQ, Lucifyre, ocnovakmichael, RealityKings1, MaxindHouse, QuinQ,
Will add more names subsequently.

I'm not interested in such meaningless topics first of all this is about religion not God.

So instead of arguing aimlessly about God's existence i will prefer to debate about what religion supposed to achieve in our society if that has been settled then we can find which religion that meets up the responsibilities?

Then we can now ask how possible could one religion achieve such a remarkable goal without any supernatural force involved?🙂

The only debate is whether you are really an atheist or you're just irritated by the different religions and religious people around you.

If you haven't seen, known or make use of real money before but all the ones you know are fake currencies that can't be used for real exchange surely you won't believe in any banking system.

So instead of arguing about existence of God i will advise you to figure out what religion supposed to achieve among adherents and our neighborhood.🥱

TenQ:
Its not about Church my dear. Its about the individual.

So an individual can be approved without being a follower of Christ shey? John 3:16

Continue deceiving yourself.

If it's an individual thing then there is no reason for everyone to become part of Christ's followers there are many nice people in all religions throughout the world jọọ! Luke 18:18-23🥱

TenQ:
Alaroye!
Acts 1:8 is not to be explained away simply because you have NEVER once experienced it in your life!
The Scripture describe your lot
2Tim 3:5:
"Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away."

What power?

Deception?

Mention the name of your church where REAL miracles are happening nah!😂

Power to gather actors and deceive others claiming you are performing miracles or power to produce the fruit expected of true disciples?

Ọmọ that scriptures is talking about you people who always claim you are performing miracles but there is no LOVE, PEACE, JOY, PATIENCE, {Galatians 5:22-23} among you. Any disagreement you carry weapons even against your fellow worshipers. John 13:34-35

Please mention one none Israelite who performed miracle in the Bible and let's start from there.

Thank you!

4good:
This is error!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Even Elisha that performed great miracles in the old testament fell sick when he was about to die. About Timothy, you got it wrong completely. The reason why you don't see miracles often nowadays is because many pastors now build senses at the expense of faith in God. Many of them use senses only and this is clear from the way they talk when you are privileged to be around them. Many preachers live in sin and only come to the pulpit to preach messages that will keep their members with them. The devil is a liar.
It takes genuine faith in God to perform signs and wonders. GOD has not changed. His word is ever true. Check out Mark 16:15-20. Do not generalize pls, where God sees genuine faith He perform wonders
I recommend yo prayerfully change your local assembly if your submission is what the pastor there preaches. The word is of God is true - with God all things are possible, only you believe Mark 9:23

What exactly is your point?😟

4good:
You lied or let me say you got it wrong.. It's not only the prophets but every genuinely born again child of God that will perform signs - check out Jesus statement in mark 16:15-20

Beware of preachers that preach to you just from the imagination of their hearts and not by the word of God - John 4:34

I beg you all, read your Bible by yourself. It's obvious some people who preach nowadays only talk because they can talk and not because God put His word in their mouth Colosians 3:16, 2 Timothy 2:15

ocnovakmichael:
Brother don't call your fellow Christian blind just because you're exploring the scriptures. Argue with love.

Are you following at all?

He said my church is blind and i told him i'm really proud to be among this so called BLIND who are producing the FRUIT expected of true Christians!

TenQ:
I flipped the Question to you.

We are not Israelites so anyone claiming he wants to perform miracles like Israelites prophets should take note of Jesus' utterance when he said:

“I was not sent to anyone except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” Matthew 15:24

So it's delusional thinking you can actually do what is reserved only for Israelites.

Meanwhile after the destruction of Jerusalem miraculous healing stopped.

WHY?

Because the people God made the promised miraculous healing lives there but after the inhabitants rejected Jesus that glory was taken away from them {Matthew 21:43} never to be given to anyone again people who took over from them weren't given such power.

Timothy was a strong believer he was sick and no miraculous healing stopped his sickness instead he was asked to use MEDICINE! 1Timothy 5:23

You love deceiving yourself yet you can't mention the name of your church where REAL MIRACLES are performed!😟

TenQ:
Alright, following your skewed rules
There are hundreds of thousands of Israelites from the tribe of Reuben and Simeon.
Can you find just one Israelite from the tribe of Reuben and Simeon that did any miracles in the Bible?
Can you see how illogical your question is.
Sorry!

I never said it's all the tribes of Israel that God must use as prophets but no none Israelite was given the privilege to perform miracles!🙂

samsard:
Galatians 5 is about the fruits of the Spirit, not the gift.
1 Corinthians 12:7-11 talks about the gifts.
In Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek. Gal 3:28.
The power gifts are given for witnessing to the gospel according to God's manifold grace.

Of course the gifts of God's holy spirit will produce those fruits and the whole world will testify to the fact that a certain religious group has been exemplary globally. John 13:34-35

As for gifts that produces no fine fruits that is what Jesus said he doesn't know! Matthew 7:21-23

reubenobi:
Lol.. the blind leading the blind.

Blind doing the things Jesus commanded {John 15:14} or those who only claim Jesus is this and that but aren't doing God's will shey? Matthew 15:8-9

Ọmọ i really envy their blindness o!😟

professore:
Most of these atheists know God is real, they are just living in self-denial.

Majority of people claiming ATHEISTS are just angry with God that's why they are raising questions that keeps them at a distance but real ATHEIST won't say anything publicly they strongly believe there is no God in their hearts you can only know them through their deeds not what they say! Psalms 14:1-3

reubenobi:
lol.. even the pharisees had disciples as well.🤣. Preaching the Gospel is not with words of mouth to persuade people but it's power. You mean the Jesus that you don't even believe in is name?

Pharisees surely made disciples but the ones that goes about carrying weapons to fight and kill their neighbors in the name of POLITICS and RACISM.

Real disciples make disciples that are known globally to be wise as serpent and harmless as dove. Matthew 10:16

Can you say yours are like that?

samsard:
This is as ridiculous as it gets.
The Corinthian church were gentiles and they had manifestations of the nine gifts of the Spirit so much they had to be cautioned to use it responsibly.

Today true Christians have the NEEDED gifts to make REAL disciples that is not what we are saying but for members of the Christian congregation to perform supernatural acts for outsiders to notice has never been given to anyone who is not an Israelite.
The gift true Christians have till today is written in the Bible book of Galatians 5:22-23 but for noticable supernatural gifts ọmọ God has never given it to a none Israelite!🙂

samsard:
Because they were the one that carried the promise of Abraham's seed and custodians of the covenants. Until the Messiah came and everything extends to the gentiles.
And get this, the Holy Spirit came on prophets of old as need be. The Holy Spirit dwells permanently now in believers even if you're a gentile. Ability to work miracles is not anout ethnicity.

Mention one none Israelite Christian who performed a miraculous healing!

TenQ:
Why not ask the question
"Give me the name of one American or French man in the Bible"?
SMH!!
I can understand why Acts 1:8 has never once been your experience

There were thousands of none Israelites who converted to become worshipers of God in ancient times but none was given the privilege of perform any miracle.
So that gift was exclusively for Israelites.

Blakjewelry:
You dead wrong on that one where do you think the quote only a fool says their is no God in their heart comes from?

Only atheists say that in their hearts doubts doesn't mean one doesn't believe God exists but whether a certain writing or information is from the true God.

TenQ:
Who told you this: just say that God had never once used you in ways that amaze even you!

Mention one none Israelite that actually perform a miracle in Bible times!🙂

bixton:
You can't be said to.be completely true witnesses of Christ Jesus if you can't do those signs which He did and Christ Jesus said, more than these shall be done. Whether you believe it or not, it's up to you. If you say it's inserted in the Book of Mark, so you mean to say all those performing the signs and miracles are just doing a theatrical performance or by what power do.you think it's been done!!!!?

Such power is restricted only among the Israelites but if you feel different you can mention just one none Israelites who performed a miracle in Bible times!🙂

reubenobi:
oga stop downplaying power. You want to take away the power in Jesus knowing fully well that with power you can penetrate the heart of men that have been hardened. You want to speak with mere words. You people try to use persuasive words thinking it will help.

We never perform any miracles but it's only Jehovah's Witnesses that are making real disciples who are actively preaching and teaching throughout the world others don't have the spirit to live material things behind and engage in the work Jesus assigned to his disciples.
What do you think made that possible? Act 1:8😟

samsard:
Not all prophets performed signs and wonders. But Elijah and Elisha did. Moses did. You can't say old prophets never performed signs. Everyone is given grace in certain areas whether new or old.

God only give such gifts to Israelites so when Jesus walked the earth he focused only on Israelites because they are the people who needs to have the gift before they can be convinced that the Christ whom the prophet wrote about is with them! Matthew 15:24

But if you feel different please mention one single person who is not Israelites yet given the power to perform miracle.

voiceunheard:
It's not just about the pastor, it also has to do with the church - for them to still retain him and not do anything about this matter, it shows that they condone such behavior.

Today people just gather without having the knowledge of truth so they are spiritually blind!

.

So Paul had the knowledge of God but anyone who doesn't have the knowledge may drive out demons that doesn't mean such a person is a servant of God!

ocnovakmichael:
They cast out devils by the knowledge of the power in name of the Lord Jesus.

The above is what you need to correct.

Whoever is knowledgeable about Christ will humbly follow with wisdom!

ocnovakmichael:
Just because you can cast out devils or preach a good sermon doesn't exempt you from judgement. Scripture says to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Yes, they have the power but they still have to work in line with God's word otherwise they will become a cast away. Paul was well aware of the truth when he declared to the saints at Corinth:

1 Corinthians 9:27
[27]But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

ocnovakmichael:
They cast out devils by the knowledge of the power in name of the Lord Jesus. They couldn't have had the power without knowledge: knowledge is power.

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ ‭Matthew 7:21-23 NIV‬

Jesus said he will shock them saying he doesn't know them.

Please despite driving out demons do such ones have the knowledge of God?

If they do how come they don't know that Jesus didn't approve their works? 😟

jesusjnr2020:
Wrong! Religion in this context is not a practice outside belief in God. It's impossible for an atheist to be religious at the same time because atheist are irreligious.

You missed it Sir!

Real atheists are religious in fact they're leaders of most religious groups.

This is what God's word said:


The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good. ‭Psalms 14:1 NIV‬

Please how do you describe individuals doing what Paul says:


Having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people. ‭2 Timothy 3:5 NIV‬

People who are known publicly as PASTORS, PROPHETS, REVEREND FATHERS and many more preaching HELLFIRE yet committing adultery with women (including married ones) in the church.

Are such ones BELIEVERS or ATHEISTS?

Note that they aren't saying there is no God publicly but just as the Psalmist said "in their heart" Psalms 14:1

😟

LordReed:
So my question still stands how does one pretend to have the mind state of belief in god?

By showy display of affection for people to see in the gathering of worshipers:

For instance:
“Two men went up into the temple to pray, the one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and began to pray these things to himself, ‘O God, I thank you that I am not like everyone else—extortioners, unrighteous, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give the tenth of all things I acquire.’ But the tax collector, standing at a distance, was not willing even to raise his eyes heavenward but kept beating his chest, saying, ‘O God, be gracious to me, a sinner.’ I tell you, this man went down to his home and was proved more righteous than that Pharisee. Because everyone who exalts himself will be humiliated, but whoever humbles himself will be. Luke 18:10-14

One is practicing his righteousness for SHOW but the other is REMORSEFUL for his inability to do what he knows is right.

While the PHARISEE can pretend the TAX COLLECTOR can't but in his heart he is sad that he is not doing God's will.

So while one is just acting on people's approval as they can see him the other is seeking ways to amend his ways. 2Timothy 3:5

God starts counting our sin when we see His servants, realize they have come to deliver a message but refuses to listen to them. From that moment His mercy begins to diminish and His rage starts counting {Matthew 10:11-15} that is why He warned everyone who has access to His word:


Before the decree takes effect and that day passes like windblown chaff, before the Lord’s fierce anger comes upon you, before the day of the Lord’s wrath comes upon you. Seek the Lord, all you humble of the land, you who do what he commands. Seek righteousness, seek humility; perhaps you will be sheltered on the day of the Lord’s anger. ‭Zephaniah 2:2-3 NIV‬

You seek righteousness and humility by associating with His true worshipers so that you can participate in the assignment God gave His holy ones.

A Jewish politician walked up to Jesus and asked him what is required for him to gain everlasting life Jesus told him to pay attention to the message of the prophets this man told Jesus he's been doing that from childhood then Jesus told him that there is one more thing he needs to do which is discard riches and celebrity lifestyle and come to join his disciples who are engaging in the work assigned to humble and loyal servants of God in the end time. This man felt disappointed and walked away. Jesus said it will be easier for a carmel to pass through the eye of a needle than for that man to enter God's Kingdom. Luke 18:18-23

What does that man lack?

Humility to accept true righteousness!

So whoever is not humble can't gain everlasting life! Matthew 5:5

AntiChristian:
None of the disciples ever claimed writing on behalf of others. And Luke who wrote the Acts you quoted wasn't a disciple but was a companion of Paul.

Also note that Peter was writting to some people: Peter 1:1- To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia...

The message is for Christians in general that is how majority of Christians were referred to back then only few are not part of the chosen (elect) and it's what the chosen believes that all must accept.
Luke was a companion Christian nah it means they are working together.

AntiChristian:
The Qur'an as it is today existed fully in the hearts of Muslim while Muhammad was alive. This can't be said of any Christian while Jesus was alive. Or do you think the Bible with you existed in the heart of any Christian while Jesus was alive?

Even 300 years after Jesus the Bible as it is today wasn't in existence! That's the difference!

The system of writing is nothing compared to the fruit of a religion and whatever you claim now is what you were told not what you witnessed yourself but when talking about reality it's the result that matters!

AntiChristian:
You said "All" and then brought a verse from Peter only? Where are the others? Note that the disciples were 12 including Mathias!

Whatever Peter wrote is in behalf of all the Apostles because he is the apostle's spokesman! Act 2:14; 3:12; 4:7
So as the spokesman of the group what he said applies to all the apostles.

AntiChristian:
The revelation span 23 years so he was teaching as it was revealed. There was no revelation as regards the Bible. It is a mixture of biographies, God's words, men's words/narrations, etc.

The comparison will lead to arguments what i'm saying is that Muhammad did not wait until all the surahs were given him before he started using it to teach the same applies to what the Christians in the first century did it's a gradual process until the Bible was completed

So it's what they received that they used as they are getting it!🙂

Jesus chose twelve apostles and Judas lost his apostleship God's holy spirit led them to choose Mattias who was also a qualified disciples for the office.

Paul wasn't a Christian back then so he couldn't have been chosen.

Meanwhile it's Jews who choose Paul as an apostle to connect people of the nations while the twelve work on Jews Paul was to focus on gentiles.