₦airaland Forum

DoctorStanley:
All those people angels appeared to, from Lot to Virgin Mary, they were blind!

Now you are amusing me!
Do you think angels have human bodies?
Come on, angels are spirit creatures they don't have human bodies it's when they want to appear before humans that they put on the appearance that won't scare us which is what we are familiar with but in the real sense they are not flesh and blood so when they are operating behind the scene you can't see them you will only see what they are doing that's why people like you concludes that it's just by mere words that things are happening whereas angels are behind the scene working!

I don't want you to get uncomfortable with the discussion that's why i said "let's close the chapter"
But if you really want to know the truth please count me in.
First of all we must both agree on what a prophet is not just what you defined based on your own preconceived thought.
So let's first agree on what a real prophet is.
Would you like to tour this journey with me?
Meanwhile before we proceed i will like to tell you that i was born a Muslim so it will be wise not to based anything we want to agree upon on either what both the Bible and Quran doesn't agree on.
What i mean is if we notice anything that both books didn't agree upon them we have to suspend what is written in both books and base our agreement on common sense it won't make sense demeaning any of the two books claiming one is superior when what is written doesn't go along with common sense.

JimRohn:
If you were truly concerned with truth, you wouldn’t brush aside the question with, “let’s close that chapter.” Truth doesn’t get closed when it gets uncomfortable. Let’s test your claim logically and by your own Bible:

1️⃣ Definition of a Prophet
A prophet, according to the Bible, is someone who:

Speaks in the name of the One true God (Deut. 18:18),

Calls people to worship God alone (Deut. 13:1–5),

Brings guidance, law, and warning to mankind.

By this standard, Muhammad ﷺ fits perfectly. He proclaimed the God of Abraham, rejected idols, called to prayer, fasting, charity, and obedience to God. He brought a scripture (the Qur’an) that honors previous prophets and restores monotheism.

2️⃣ Your Inconsistency
You accept Moses and Jesus as prophets though their message overturned corrupt religious systems of their time. Why then is Muhammad ﷺ disqualified when he did the exact same — purging idolatry in Arabia and restoring worship to the God of Abraham? The real reason is not “biblical criteria,” but church tradition and bias.

3️⃣ Prophecy Fulfilled
Even your own scriptures point beyond Jesus:

The “prophet like Moses” who brings a new law (Deut. 18:18) — not fulfilled by Jesus (who reaffirmed Torah), but by Muhammad ﷺ.

The “Comforter / Spirit of Truth” in John 16:13 who “speaks what he hears” — describing verbal revelation, not an invisible spirit.

4️⃣ Meanwhile, Trinitarianism Collapses
You cannot defend the Trinity from your own Bible without twisting texts. Jesus prays to God, submits to God, sits beside God, calls God “my God” (John 20:17). Even your attempt to deny Muhammad ﷺ is just a diversion to hide the fact that the Trinity has no biblical foundation.

Bottom Line:
Dismissing Muhammad ﷺ doesn’t save your theology. It only exposes your double standard. If rejecting idolatry, calling to One God, and bringing revelation does not make someone a prophet — then what does? By your own Bible, Muhammad ﷺ fulfills the mark of prophethood, while the Trinity fails the test of monotheism.

DoctorStanley:
Invisible angels!😅

Have you seen an angel before?

Truly any Born Again Christian is greater than all the prophets born from the time of Abel till that of John the baptist but there is a question you need to ask is:

Who are the Born Again Christians!

JimRohn:
Bottom line:
You are right to reject the Trinity. But don’t stop halfway. If Jesus is truly a prophet like Moses, then the final and complete prophet — foretold by Moses and confirmed by Jesus — is Muhammad ﷺ. The truth is consistent: One God, absolute, worshipped alone, without partners.

Are you really interested in the truth or you just want to support your parent's religion?
Well Muhammad is not a prophet at all going by what a prophet is according to the Bible so let's close that chapter.

LordReed:
LoLz. You've started again. Where did I ask you to help me become a member of the Governing Body?

Walahi talahi dementia is a bad thing!
Do you want me to quote you saying i should make you Governing Body on this forum?

LordReed:
It is you who mentioned DeepSight so I dunno you are trying to make it seem like I am stopping you from having a conversation with him. If you want to have a convoy with him do that and stop all this your comedy, it is getting stale. Bwahahahahahaha.

That's not a problem i just want you to know that if i ignore you it's not because i don't have intelligent response for you!

DoctorStanley:
Why don't you just give it up. Lord Jesus doesn’t need armies to.kill any humans, just as he didn't need armies to create them. His job in is not head of armies. He sits at the right hand of the Father and is the only way to the Father. That's his job

Go and tell apostle John that what he wrote in that verse is wrong nah!

Ọmọ God is the Creator not Jesus he was used to create all other things so the things he created are not just anything but intelligent beings capable of thinking and fighting both physically and spiritually so to destroy them he can't do it alone that's why there are Cherubs (warriors) among angels in the heavens!

DoctorStanley:
So all that vision in Revelation is talking about humans. It's all taking about him as human! Wow!

Revelation says he is coming to fight with his angels following him {Revelations 19:14} so if you don't agree that's your own cup of coffee!

LordReed:
Keep playing that comedic track. LoLz.

You are an atheist and humility makes no sense to you, i remember you asking me to help you become a member of the Governing Body which means you are not humble in anyway.
So if DeepSight claim to be humble that shows he still has a soft spot for the existence of God unlike you.
Let him face me and prove how humble he truly is after all i've used the Oxford dictionary to defined the word HUMBLE so watch and see what it means to be humble.

DeepSight:
The result of simply saying that I remain humble and teachable, I tire oh. Somehow you are this great agent of Satan determined to scuttle my salvation!

Humble yet no school of thought where fellow students are learning together with you and putting what you are all learning into practice as fellow students of the same school.

Teachable yet unable to present those teaching you.

Well i only came to prove you wrong in using that adjectives "humble" it belongs only to those who have turned themselves into children ready to learn together under the same teacher or teachers!

DoctorStanley:
Ok, so where were angels when he was creating everything?

He was a spirit then not human it's when he is human that angels attends to his needs!

Julia25:
Many have strengthened one another that does not mean they were in distress?
How does this verse relate to your bolded phrase? They are disjointed.
Strengthened has several definitions, so which one are you appealing to, given the context above ?

Who needs to be strengthened?

Someone who can just talk and everything will happen or someone who needs help?

Julia25:
Was he in distress?

What does "strengthen" mean?

Julia25:
The bolded is not phrased right I believe Jesus doesn't need angels to work, this verses prove that John5:17-30.
If it were according to your statement, it would have been, “My Father work and I send my angels to work also“🥱but it's not!

So why does he need angels when he is in distress?


An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. ‭Luke 22:43 NIV‬

LordReed:
Keep consoling yourself with this comedic track. LoLz. You didn't produce evidence of anything so I dunno what you are on about.

There is no reason to engage me if you already know i won't accept what you say so you purposely engaged me with the fear that i may win DeepSight over that's the truth!

JimRohn:
Thank you for citing John 20:17 — it actually supports the Islamic position.

1. On John 20:17
Jesus says, “I ascend to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.” If Jesus has a God, he is not God. The verse distinguishes between Jesus and God and places both Jesus and the disciples under the same Lord.

2. On calling the disciples “brothers”
When Jesus calls believers his “brothers,” it emphasizes his shared humanity, not divinity. Scripture itself explains this: “He is not ashamed to call them brothers” and “he had to be made like his brothers in every respect” (Hebrews 2:11, 2:17). That God does not call humans His “brothers” is precisely because God is utterly unlike creation. Jesus calling humans “brothers” fits a servant-messenger of God, not God Himself.

3. Consistent New Testament pattern
Multiple passages echo John 20:17 by showing Jesus worshipping and submitting to God:

“My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46; Mark 15:34)

“Therefore God, your God, has anointed you.” (Hebrews 1:9)

“The name of my God … the city of my God … which comes down out of heaven from my God.” (Revelation 3:12)
A being who repeatedly refers to “my God” is not the Almighty; he is a servant of the Almighty.

4. About “pure worship” and “fruits”
“Pure worship” must be defined by clear monotheism and the practice of the prophets: direct prayer to the One God alone, no partners, no intermediaries, no images. Organizational uniformity or claimed “fruits” are not proof of truth—many groups show discipline and growth while teaching contradictory doctrines. The sure test is theological clarity and textual integrity. Islam meets that test: uncompromised Tawhid and a preserved revelation, the Qur’an.

Bottom line:
Your own citation (John 20:17) aligns with Islam: Jesus is a prophet and Messiah who worships God. The side of truth is the side that worships the God of Jesus—not Jesus as God. Return to the pure monotheism every prophet proclaimed:

👆 “Say: He is Allah, the One; Allah, the Absolute. He neither begets nor is begotten; and there is none comparable to Him.” (Qur’an 112:1–4)

Apart from Supreme Being the title "GOD" could be defined in many ways.

In the Bible Jesus is not the first person to be conferred with that title but when readers has been indoctrinated they will look away from reasonableness.

All what trinitarians keep pointing to is the Bible book of John chapter 1:1 which reads:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

Instead of reasonably using the lower case to distinguish between the two persons mentioned here trinitarians will blindly use the same case for both persons knowing fully well that this verse is talking about two different persons.

The first servant of God to be conferred with that title is Moses this is what God said about Moses:

“See, I have made you like God to Pharʹaoh, and Aaron your own brother will become your prophet" Exodus 7:1

According to this verse Moses will act as God in Egypt because whatever he says will happen as he utters it but instead of Moses speaking it's his brother Aaron who will be speaking while Moses stands right there before Pharaoh.

Later God told the Moses :

" I will raise up for them from the midst of their brothers a prophet like you, and I will put my words in his mouth, and he will speak to them all that I command him" Deuteronomy 18:18

Peter the apostle told Christians in the first century that Jesus is the prophet who has come in the manner of Moses! Act 3:22

So the title GOD conferred on Jesus doesn't mean he is the Almighty God rather it means this is the prophet God promised to send in the manner of Moses.

In another Bible verse it's written regarding Jesus:

Jehovah declared to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet" Psalms 110:1

Here is how it was translated in the New World Translation Jehovah's Witnesses Bible but in other versions where God's unique name has been removed this is what you will see:


The Lord says to my lord: “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.” ‭Psalms 110:1 NIV‬

Does this confused the disciples of Jesus?

The answer is NO!

WHY?

Because Peter explained that Jesus is the one God spoke to after his return to heaven:


For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said, “ ‘The Lord said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.” ’‭Acts 2:34-35 NIV‬

So Peter made it clear to his fellow disciples that Jesus is not God Almighty rather he is the prophet who is to come in the manner of Moses!

DoctorStanley:
Someone who can say things and they happen doesn't have to command any army!

You thought he's just saying things and they are happening right?

Well anything Jesus say is carried out by angels who are attending to him he can't do a single thing without those angels surrounding him. The only thing he can do without angels involved is preaching and teaching but whenever anything supernatural occurs angels are behind the scene!

LordReed:
Bwahahahahahaha! What a comedic statement. DeepSight that has been longer in this than me. You're a jester.
Thank you for proving my point.
LoLz. Thank you again for proving my point.

I know that you purposely engaged me out of fear that i may win DeepSight over with reasoning so if you deny it's OK but that's the truth.
Your point right from the beginning is to deny evidences pointing to the existence of God so there's nothing unique.

DoctorStanley:
That's the problem you JW have. You always try to insert the kooky JW angle.
Jesus called himself the Son of the living God
Instead of simply writing:
"The Son of the living God to be ridiculed by mere humans"
Instead you simply had to write kooky JW:
"The commander in chief of all the armies in heaven to be ridiculed by mere humans"
That's how you JW get in trouble.
You reduce Lord Jesus who merely said things and they happened, to a mere commander of army!

Guy your grievances against Jehovah's Witnesses is noted but you can't prove whatever Jehovah's Witnesses say wrong because you don't have the knowledge to do so.

Donald Trump is the president of U.S.A. we all know that he is the commander in chief of all the armies in his country.

So as the anointed King of God's Kingdom who is sitting on the throne of his father King David {Isaiah 9:7} can you prove that Jesus who said all power both in heaven and on earth has been given to him {Matthew 28:18} and that heavenly armies are his attendants isn't the commander in chief of all the armies in heaven?

LordReed:
Have you ever agreed that some other interpretation was right even when yours proves to be offpoint? I doubt it. Why? Because you believe in what you want to believe not because you actually want to find truth.

The highlighted shows your intentions and i love that even though i've told you several times that we fight for the faith in a diplomatic way you have come to challenge true faith because you thought i'm trying to steal away DeepSight from what you want him to be.
Well there has never ever been anyone since i became one of Jehovah's Witnesses who have proved to be a real worshiper of the Bible God outside that organization because the identification of those serving that God is clear if you truly want to know them! Matthew 7:15-20

LordReed:
Go ask all those preachers riding in private jets whether they are experiencing the god's success.

So you expect worshipers of Mammon {Matthew 6:24} to come out openly and tell the you that they are not worshiping the Bible God?
Come on my friend there is nothing bad in being rich materially but going by the information we get through studying the Bible material possessions has nothing to do with being a successful worshiper of the Bible God.
There are many people having His approval as they were declared righteous by this God yet they don't have material things.
Jesus is the most important servant of this God yet Jesus had nothing materially speaking! Luke 9:58

DeepSight:
Sorry I rested quite a lot from my labor of creating the world in six days.
Now, where do we start from.

You can start from wherever you are pleased but remember the definition of that word HUMBLE since that's the major reason i engaged you because only my brothers and sisters has that quality.
So if you claim to be humble i will love to see how you prove it not with mere words but in your attitude!

DoctorStanley:
He could raise dead with mere words but needs to command armies to get rid of evil doers!😆 Wow!

If you are an atheist come out openly to speak against God's word the Bible says Jesus will lead heavenly armies to destroy evildoers blood was mentioned {Revelations 19:11-16} and he himself said he will command his armies to kill all his opposers before him! Luke 19:27

If you have anytime against the Bible you don't have to pretend no one will flog you!

DeepSight:
Its a Sunday morning, relax. I am still in bed as a non church goer. I am coming.

Obviously you don't have the time for our discussion today but it's OK i'm not in a hurry anytime you are ready let me know!

LordReed:
That's your interpretation and I hold your interpretation in as much "esteem" as all the others.

You can choose whatever you like but the truth won't move an inch.

Whenever you want to argue remember that the main reason why right thinking people argue is not just for fun but to get matters straight.

So interpretation is not for arguments sake rather for the benefit of all involved that is why i asked you if those people you want to equate their interpretation to mine have produced expected fruit as foretold in the Bible? Matthew 7:16-18

DoctorStanley:
Yet this is the same person by whom the entire universe was created by mere words, who raised the dead by mere words. Now he has to command armies to get rid of people! You people should try to think sometimes!

Get rid of evildoers! Psalms 37:9-10

Don't forget to add that!

OBAJESU:
It's called 'TAKING AWAY' in the Bible. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist dear. The present Church just found a new sobriquet for it, it's still the same......AND IT'S HAPPENING THIS SEPTEMBER!!!!!!!

So in other words RAPTURE is not found written anywhere in the Bible.

Thanks!

DoctorStanley:
Now I know who you are too.
Why not simply accept that Christ is not about commanding any armies??

Jesus is a king who must work hard for the Peace and Security of his subjects so in the process of securing the lives of his obedient subjects rebellious ones must be cut off! Psalms 37:9-11
Whether you agree or not that's what the Bible says about Jesus the anointed king of God's Kingdom!

DoctorStanley:
😅"you can't hear of military service among us!" Yet the person you claim to be following is all about war (according to u) and goes about commanding armies!

OK, now i know who you are.

Jesus is coming to destroy faithless people but among God's servants there must be peace!

DoctorStanley:
Funny JW guy, he went and brought what was said in a parable. A parable!
Below is what Jesus said his role in heaven is, nothing in it has anything to do with armies!

Well if you want to know why Jesus is the Prince of Peace {Isaiah 9:6} all you need is a free home Bible study.

Jesus will kill all the enemies of God he is the executioner who is coming to destroy all evildoers.

His role as the Prince of Peace is to teach or counsel faithful people on how we can make peace among ourselves that's why you can't hear of military service among us! Isaiah 2:2-4

LordReed:
The Bible god doesn't say anything. It is you believers who talk for the god and you say whatever you like.

According to the Bible God success is not about material possessions Jesus is the most successful worshiper of God yet he doesn't have anything materially speaking so if you are confused due to what false religionists told you now is the time to have a rethink!

LordReed:
Neither do you. Anybody can say the god said anything they like and have followers and prosper. You don't hold the monopoly on that.

What does the Bible God call success?