₦airaland Forum

DoctorStanley:
I'd answer with a question. Do you kmow Revelation was almost not included in the Bible and initially was not, and do you know Christ Himself told us who he was and his function in heaven and that non of it had anything to do with "armies"?

You only need a free home Bible study with Jehovah's Witnesses so that you can understand all these things.

Regarding what Jesus said about himself read this:

"Moreover, bring these enemies of mine here who did not want me to become king over them and execute them in front of me." Luke 19:27

That is Jesus himself telling you there's no peace between light and darkness, truth and falsehood.

DoctorStanley:
So in your mind the Jesus Christ you know and follow is a warring "commander in chief of armies"?
How do you reconcile that with "Prince of Peace", "turn the other cheek", "son of the living God", "Meek and mild" "pray for your enemies", etc.

Why are you avoiding the simple question?

Who is the person spoken of in those verses?

DoctorStanley:
Correct. But you have to go and add your kooky JW angle.
Where did Christ or any of his followers tell you that he is "the commander in chief of all the armies in heaven"??

“When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne." Matthew 25:31
For the Son of man is to come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and then he will repay each one according to his behavior. Matthew 16:27

Who is the son of man in these verses?

I saw heaven opened, and look! a white horse. And the one seated on it is called Faithful and True, and he judges and carries on war in righteousness.  His eyes are a fiery flame, and on his head are many diadems. He has a name written that no one knows but he himself,  and he is clothed with an outer garment stained with blood, and he is called by the name The Word of God. Also, the armies in heaven were following him on white horses, and they were clothed in white, clean, fine linen. Revelations 19:11-14

Who did John saw here called the word of God?

LordReed:
Unfortunately for you textbooks are standardised, no student can succeed in continuing to apply the wrong conclusions. Not so for the Bible. Every Tom and Harry can apply whatever interpretation they like and succeed at it.
Where are they? They are right here on Nairaland. Search for flat earth and you’ll see them.

The highlighted shows that you don't know what success really means to God but i will teach you.
Are they organized in the preaching and teaching about the Kingdom of God? Matthew 28:19-20
Do they have love among themselves as foretold by Jesus as the mark of success among his true disciples? John 13:34-35
Do they speak in harmony evidence that they have the same line of thought? John 17:22
Are they blameless when it comes to worldly politics {John 17:14-16} which leads people into hating and killing their fellow worshipers? Revelations 6:3-4

You need to know what God counts as SUCCESS before saying they are successful!

Steep:
I tire for max. The blindness is real. If Jehovah "can become anything to fulfill His purpose" Does that not mean he can also become a man? That is exactly what Christianity said that they are fighting against it.

Who constitutes Christianity?
Which of your churches?
That's where all of you can't convince any right thinking person because none of the churches claiming what you said is producing the fruit expected of Jesus' true followers! Matthew 7:15-20

DoctorStanley:
Frankly, with all due respect, stupid analogy.
What you ought say are:
1) His humiliation and extreme torture and suffering, not just the death
2) He gave up his EARTHLY life. Like everybody on earth he wanted to keep on living his earthly life, maybe get married, have children, etc. Even when he resurrected it was different - his disciples knew it was him but could no longer physically recognize him. He gave up that life and that is HUGE indeed!

The commander in chief of all the armies in heaven to be ridiculed by mere humans, accused, arrested, charged, arraigned, judged, sentenced and executed all on the accusation that he blasphemed his father the same person for whom he had so much love and respect.

Surely that was the greatest sacrifice of all time!

jaephoenix:
...and you pull up this post when you know you have talked rubbish,and you have no answer for me

Since the day you have concluded that i always talk rubbish i believe you shouldn't think of engaging me again as you are well aware that my utterances are rubbish or are you doubting your own stand?

DeepSight:
Like the prophecies of Nostradamus.

My HUMBLE friend, why did you run away from our discussion?

LordReed:
The same passages that are used by flat earthers as proof that the Earth is flat. That is the thing with the Bible, it is ambiguous enough to make it say anything you want.

Where are those saying that about the Bible?
You need to start thinking intelligently.

Imagine five different students pick up a textbook without assembling in a class before a qualified teacher do you think they will all arrive at the same understanding of what is written in the textbook?

Come on my guy a wise person won't just discard the textbook due to the way those students interpreted it differently contradicting themselves rather a wise person will ask them to put whatever they interpreted into practice because it's the one who is able to produce the expected end result that proved he or she truly understood what he read! Matthew 7:16-18

So after a careful reading, diligent study, thorough meditation we can say the holy spirit could be defined as God's active force which He uses in many ways to accomplish His purposes.

God warned people in ancient times against intake of blood:

"Only flesh with its life—its blood—you must not eat" Genesis 9:4

"You must not eat any blood in any of your dwelling places, whether that of birds or that of animals." Leviticus 7:26

"But you must not eat the blood; you should pour it out on the ground like water." Deuteronomy 12:16

We don't know it's implications because we thought it's just about eating blood until God's Holy Spirit revealed to the apostles:

but to write them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from what is strangled, and from blood. Act 15:20

"to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!” Act 15:29

"As for the believers from among the nations, we have sent them our decision in writing that they should keep away from what is sacrificed to idols as well as from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality.” Act 21:25

Now we know the rule to avoid blood is about sound health!

jaephoenix:
Can you quote where it is stated that blood transfusion is bad,in the bible

You have said you won't engage me on this forum again:

jaephoenix:
Bro, maybe I'll stop debating with you. You don't answer questions, but instead deflect it to answer a different question.

Let's crack some jokes!

Is the person asking male or female?
Is he or she born again?

Well in my own PERSONAL opinion i think marriage is between two consenting partners (adults) that's why God Himself often gave Adam and Eve their privacy otherwise He supposed not give them any sign when approaching their domain.

The question supposed to be the other way around:

Can Christian couples forgive adultery?

The word "SHOULD" sounds compelling.

eagleonearth:
don't try this. It fosters divisiveness. Roman Catholics are hard to win over to Pentecostal. Talk it out with her before proceeding. If two does not agree, they cannot move together. This is a lifelong journey as death only can separate you except one of you decides to quit and stay unmarried.

May God bless you for this!

Steep:
you have shifted to seeing God.
The context of what John was saying is the father. No man has seen God means no man has seen God in his spiriual form but does not mean God has not appeared before.
God appeared as the angel of the LORD but it doesn't mean he is an angel, he appeared as fire but it does mean he is fire, he appeared as pillar cloud it does not mean he is pillar cloud and so on and so forth. People have encountered God but that does not mean they actually saw him in is true heavenly form which is impossible for man to comprehend.

Let us reason the highlighted together.

Can humans see spirits?

What does the word "humble" means?

Not pretentious
Not magnificent
Unpretending
Unassuming.
Or
Having a low opinion of oneself
Not proud.
Not arrogant
Not assuming
Modest.

Satan really blinded the minds of billions today to the extent that they are accusing or let's just say judging themselves unknowingly. 2Corinthians 4:4

How can someone be humble yet unable to join others in doing something that benefits everyone? Luke 18:18-23
Whoever feels he has a source of info given only to him but wishing everyone else should come and learn from him yet not able to point to someone who is teaching him along with others humbly practicing what the teacher taught him or her is deceiving himself.
Such a person is not humble!

Please Mr DeepSight i wish we discuss more on profitable knowledge that comes with real benefits not just carrying informations for the sake of it but to find practical application for what we think we know and helping others to make the best use of it for one and all!

If there is nothing more tonight i wish you a good night sleep.

See you some other time!

I just wish you read this post again and think about what the word HUMILITY truly means!

DeepSight:
I am not quite sure what you have described is humility. It veers more towards open mindedness. In these matters, humility is the understanding that we know little or nothing and are very small in the scheme of things as well as the preparedness to accept that our views and understandings may be limited or wrong.
Are you prepared to accet that?

DeepSight:
What is the use of revealing a thing that scientists, thinkers and co are already discovering, even if shortly later by a couple of centuries?

The Bible God claimed He's the Creator of all things so by revealing such things He is assuring His servants that they are in safe hands and all they just need is to have absolute trust in Him because He knew everything about their planet home!

DeepSight:
That is demeaning to the supposed majesty of Divine revelation. Is that the sort of thing Divinity reveals?

The title GOD connotes SUPREME BEING so God's purpose is to tell His servants things that will happen in the future and what they need to do when such events are unfolding. This will strengthen their faith in Him that He is worthy of trust!

DeepSight:
How do you knw they simply didnt reason it out as well. There was much ancient knowledge you know?

These Isrealites weren't philosophers or researchers rather they were simple men within their people unlike Greeks who were ruling the known world at that time always arguing over what each of them discovers instead when Israelite prophets pen down any information they are straight to the point they don't expect anyone to debate with them because they don't know how to defend what a spirit revealed to them so let's be realistic and HUMBLE to accept the truth that God revealed these things to His own servants!

DeepSight:
The Greeks didnt get it from Isaiah, and if they could have reasoned it out themselves, then others could have as well.

I'm not saying they got it from Isaiah but what we heard is that while these people are still debating as in arguing among themselves whether it is true or not the God of Israel has inspired Isaiah to pen it down accurately!

DeepSight:
Greeks for example, knew it was round long long ago.

-------
The earliest documented knowledge that the Earth is round dates back to ancient Greek philosophers in the 5th century BC. While earlier cultures often depicted the world as a flat disc, Greek thinkers began to propose a spherical Earth based on observation and reasoning.

Key Figures and Arguments
The idea of a spherical Earth wasn't a sudden discovery but rather a developing concept supported by several philosophers over time:

Pythagoras (c. 570–c. 500 BC): While the evidence is debated, some sources credit him with being the first to suggest a spherical Earth. His reasoning was more philosophical than empirical, believing the sphere to be the most "perfect" and harmonious geometric shape.

Plato (c. 427–c. 347 BC): Plato referenced the concept of a round Earth in his writings, indicating it was an emerging idea during his time.

Aristotle (c. 384–c. 322 BC): Aristotle provided the first strong empirical arguments for a spherical Earth. He observed that:

The Earth's shadow on the Moon during a lunar eclipse is always round. The only shape that consistently casts a circular shadow is a sphere.

As one travels north or south, the positions of stars change. For example, the North Star appears lower in the sky as one moves south. This is only possible on a curved surface.

When a ship sails away, its hull disappears below the horizon before its mast and sails. This phenomenon can only be explained by the ship traveling over a curved surface.

Measuring the Earth's Circumference
Building upon this knowledge, the Hellenistic astronomer Eratosthenes (c. 276–c. 194 BC) took the next major step. Around 240 BC, he not only accepted that the Earth was round but also calculated its circumference with remarkable accuracy using a simple but brilliant method.

He knew that in the city of Syene (modern Aswan, Egypt), the sun was directly overhead at noon on the summer solstice, casting no shadows.

At the same time, in Alexandria, a stick cast a small shadow, indicating the sun was not directly overhead.

By measuring the angle of the shadow in Alexandria and knowing the distance between the two cities, he used geometry to calculate the Earth's circumference. His result was surprisingly close to the modern value.

This knowledge was widespread among educated people in the ancient and medieval worlds, debunking the common misconception that people before Christopher Columbus believed the Earth was flat.

--------

Culled.

Isaiah wrote the book bearing his name in the year 732 BC
So God has inspired him before anyone and what about gravity that's hanging the earth upon nothing as written by Moses around 1657 BC?
Or has that also been known before it was revealed to Moses?

DeepSight:
Point of correction, people have known the Earth is spherical for millenia.

Now you've proved to be humble for real!
Please who taught you the above and in which school?
Because i was taught long before i knew the Bible that people in ancient times thought the earth was flat.

Steep:
what you fail to understand is that it was God that actually came down from heaven by himself.

Exodus 3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.


Exodus 3:4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.

God called him from the fire so God actually came down.
I can even show you from Jehovah's witness publication that Jehovah can become anything to fulfill his plan.

God can become whatever it takes to fulfill His purpose but no man has seen Him which means He never appear to any human!

Julia25:
Yet the only begotten Son from the Father hath revealed him
Two were Angels, Jesus was the third—at least in his pre-incarnate form.

Also, there are lots of theophanies of those that saw the Father , so who did they see?
Perhaps Stephen didn't really see Jesus standing beside the Father . Even John saw the Father , so I beg to differ.

The highlighted is correct but at that time Jesus was the angel who always represent God when it comes to saving faithful people! Daniel 12:1

Take for instance Jehovah said he will lead the Israelites out of Egypt {Exodus 13:21} but Jesus was representing Jehovah as the angel of God! Exodus 14:19

Julia25:
You do know the same phrase was used when He was discussing with Abraham: "I will go down"
In the case above He went down himself, so why now did you decide He's incapable of coming by himself but relies on some intermediary, Jesus, to come down ?

Jesus while yet an intermediary is also God, if you assert that's God speaking then it will mean that God has a God because he mentions this here. Revelation 3:12

You are basically choosing and picking when it's God speaking and when it's some representative . So do you agree that's it Jehovah that spoke here?

As for the Moses' verse, God did bring them out. At least He was there

The highlighted is wrong!

It was an angel who represented God as spokesman among the three angels.

No man has seen God at anytime! John 1:18

Julia25:
So is Jehovah God coming quickly?

He is the one coming not Jesus because Jesus is coming to do God's will that's why he also said he is coming. Revelations 22:20

For instance when God said:

“I have certainly seen the affliction of my people who are in Egypt, and I have heard their outcry because of those who force them to work; I well know the pains they suffer. I will go down to rescue them out of the hand of the Egyptians and to bring them up out of that land to a land good and spacious, a land flowing with milk and honey, the territory of the Caʹnaan·ites, the Hitʹtites, the Amʹor·ites, the Perʹiz·zites, the Hiʹvites, and the Jebʹu·sites. Now look! The outcry of the people of Israel has reached me, and I have seen also the harsh way that the Egyptians are oppressing them. Now come, I will send you to Pharʹaoh, and you will bring my people the Israelites out of Egypt." Exodus 3:7-10

The person coming to do His own will is God but the person who will represent Him is Moses that's why God told Moses that he (Moses) will appear before Pharaoh as God! Exodus 7:1

So when God told the Israelites that He will still send another prophet like Moses to them {Deuteronomy 18:18} Peter explained that Jesus is that prophet who served as servant of God but acted as God in the midst of God's people! Act 3:22

Julia25:
Is that the only verse you’ve got? Because I can rattle off Jesus’ own words from Revelation where He says, ‘I am the Alpha and the Omega,’ the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End’ (Revelation 22:13).

And you don’t even have to go far—this title isn't just New Testament flair; it's right there in the Old Testament too. In Isaiah 44:6, God Himself declares, ‘I am the First and I am the Last; apart from me there is no God.’ So, the Alpha and Omega isn’t just some cool catchphrase; it's a title that spans both Testaments, showing the eternal and unchanging nature of God.

From this two, I beg to differ

This is where the problem is because at Revelations 22:12-13 this is what i found in my own copy of the Bible:

“‘Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to repay each one according to his work. I am the Alʹpha and the O·meʹga, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

There are three persons talking to the reader in the book of Revelations:

Jehovah God.
Jesus.
Apostle John.

So if care is not taken you will mistake what one said for another!

DeepSight:
I dont claim to have any superior knowledge. But I challenge the bold. I challenge it for many of the religious who many times are prone to accept absurdities and obvious superstitions above logic and common sense.

Surely you don't know the real meaning of humility!

When you are humble you don't think of how to argue rather what will benefit you and all your neighbors so even though the information seems absurd or illogical a humble person will seek to know what benefit it will bring.

Take for instance in some thousands of years ago nobody believes that this planet as big as it is could be hanging on nothing {Job 26:7} nobody believes that this planet could be round (spherical) {Isaiah 40:22} nobody believes that water is recircling and that it's the same thing we are using for thousands of year! Job 36:27-28

WHY?

Because all these things sounds absurd, illogical, superstitious with no common sense!

But what do we have today?

Well let's assume you could travel back to speak with people claiming intelligent back then it's exactly what you just said now that they will tell you.

So where is the humility if all what you want to do is stick to the knowledge people around you called LOGICAL?

Julia25:
if God were to go on his own errand, will He also fit into the term "Angel" as he is technically a messenger of himself , doing His own will.

Sorry Jesus never claim to be God it's the idea of trinitarians so Jesus is a messenger of God according to his first century disciples:

The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his SERVANT Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and you disowned him before Pilate, though he had decided to let him go. ‭Acts 3:13 NIV‬

DeepSight:
I am not quite sure what you have described is humility. It veers more towards open mindedness.

In these matters, humility is the understanding that we know little or nothing and are very small in the scheme of things as well as the preparedness to accept that our views and understandings may be limited or wrong.

Are you prepared to accet that?

You just repeated exactly what i said but it seems you missed a vital part of it:

Nobody is willing to accept knowledge that is not superior to what he formally had so before you can convince someone you need to prove beyond reasonable doubt that what you have is beneficial to one and all.

Do you have such?