₦airaland Forum

tctrills:
It's not written that they knew what we know today but I don't do guesswork. I can't tell if they knew as much as we do or not but it does not matter.

Of course only those who walked with Jesus and those who later learned from them can have ACCURATE KNOWLEDGE about the Christ all those that lived before Jesus only had partial knowledge because they got prophecies they can't fully understand not to talk of practice what the Christ will teach.

So they are not Christians!

tctrills:
You have a point with the verses Romans 10.13.15
But remember philip and the ethiopian. Philip taught the eunuch about Christ using the old testament so clearly the old testament preached Christ.

So when you mention Romans 19.13 to 15
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?
You are wrong because Jesus Christ says the old testament testifies of him.

If the Old Testament talked about Christ then why do the Jews who have the laws need disciples of Jesus to preach and teach them about Christianity? Matthew 10:6

Of course it's what was written in the Old Testament that Christians used to prove that Jesus is the promised Christ if Jesus didn't train his disciples to preach and teach nobody can become a Christian.

So Abraham, Moses or David who never heard or were taught about Jesus only had the promises just as all other Israelites they can't become Christians unless Jesus or his TRAINED disciples preach to and teach them!

tctrills:
You see confused. You don't know Christ in person. If He walked pass you on the streets you would have no clue.
If the law of Moses was to led them to Christ then followers of the Law of Moses are followers of Christ doing his will.
Again, let's agree to disagree.

@ Luke 18:18-23

The man did everything the mosaic law says yet he will not follow Jesus that's evidence of the fact that the laws doesn't automatically lead to Christ some must be trained to preach and teach how the Christ relate with the laws {Matthew 10:11-13} otherwise millions of Jews carrying the laws in their heads today won't be claiming that Jesus was an impostor. Matthew 27:63

So before anyone could become a Christian he must have seen or heard from Jesus or Jesus' disciples! Romans 10:13-15

I know you love arguing blindly that's why there can never be any agreement between you and i!

tctrills:
let's agree to disagree.

There's nothing to agree upon.

People who never knew the Christ in person or learn how to practice CHRISTIANITY are not Christians. Period!

tctrills:
As usual you are confused
1. It was Jesus Christ that gave Moses the law so the law of Moses is actually the law of God given to Moses
2. Abraham's covenant that is still in force is centered on faith in Jesus Christ.
3. A Christian is one who believes in Christ and David definitely did.
For God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not die but have eternal life.
All the Prophets of old believed in him.
I hope this helps you
4. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
The law will bring men unto Christ so following the law was same as following Christ.
The only difference was that when Jesus came, he gave a more advance version of his law. The only purpose of the Law of Moses was to prepare people for Christ.

Guy people who lived prior to the time of Christ are not Christians!

tctrills:
That's not the definition of a Christian. And Moses and Abraham practiced what Jesus taught them.

Blind argument.

Ọmọ stop deceiving yourself i hate deceit that is why you and i can't be on the same page.

Moses and Abraham can't practice what they never heard it's Jesus' disciples sent out to preach {Matthew 10:11-13} that were TEACHING people {Matthew 28:18-20{ it's not automatic knowledge they must be preached to and taught by Jesus' disciples before they can get baptized to become CHRISTIANS! Romans 10:13-15

tctrills:
Who took their life, Jesus, the Apostles or initiatives of the group?

So it's not Jesus who commanded them to do so what they did is not compulsory rather they agreed with the group and lied that's what led to their death.

tctrills:
I choose to learn from the word of God

According to the Bible only those PRACTICING what Jesus taught are CHRISTIANS not all those faithful servants of God!

tctrills:
You are confused. Ananias and Sapphira also refused to give all their money to the church, are they not christians

Who commanded them to sell their properties and give the money to fellow members?

Jesus, the Apostles or initiatives of the group?

tctrills:
Because I don't accept your leaders false teachings you call me funny. Oga let's stick to the bible and forget your leaders. The bible is the only common factor between us. Outside the bible, we.have no discussion.

Ọmọ go and learn from your pastors in the churches of Christendom after all they don't know what a Christian means!

tctrills:
The purpose of the law was to bring men to Christ. So anyone following the law was clearly following Christ.

And one of the rulers questioned him, saying: “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit everlasting life?” Jesus said to him: “Why do you call me good? Nobody is good except one, God. You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not bear false witness, honor your father and your mother.’” Then he said: “All of these I have kept from youth on.” After hearing that, Jesus said to him, “There is still one thing lacking about you: Sell all the things you have and distribute the proceeds to the poor, and you will have treasure in the heavens; and come be my follower.” When he heard this, he became deeply grieved, for he was very rich. Luke 18:18-23

This man PRACTICED everything the law says but refused to FOLLOW Jesus.

Is he a CHRISTIAN?

tctrills:
But you are listening to false men of God. Men who deny the word of God. That's tour only problem

You that doesn't even know what Christians means want to tell me who are true men of God.

Ọmọ you're really funny o!

tctrills:
As I said, it's your opinion which happens to be against the word of God.
Let's go to your Bible and read about Abraham
Galatians 3
Passage
Resources
Hebrew/Greek
Your Content
Galatians 3
King James Version
3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.


16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

Read verse 17 again God's promises to Abraham was confirmed in Christ. Same as the covenant of the new testament. So what is your problem.

Christians are people PRACTICING what Jesus taught.
Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Joshua, Gideon, Deborah, Samson, Jephthah, David, Elijah till John the baptist are not Christians because they never PRACTICED what Jesus taught.

I have told you countless times that you can never ever be wise regarding the scriptures unless you humble yourself and learn from Jehovah's Witnesses.

But if you want to continue learning from the churches go and meet them.

Do you know why countless religions out there are all claiming Christians despite practicing different religions?
Well it's because each of them are following the practices of different prophets in Bible times simply because they are carrying the Bible yet they are claiming Christians but they don't want to know what Jesus taught.

Ọmọ as many as they are none of them can be saved because there is no name given for our salvation except the name of Jesus {Act 4:12} so it's either they start practicing what Jesus taught and keep aside what prophets did or perish! John 3:16

I know how worried you become each time you come to my page that's why i keep telling you to stay away from me!

tctrills:
You mean Jesus Christ was his Lord but he is not a follower of Jesus Christ right?
Please forget your leaders and start reading the bible on your own. I promise you will get a lot wiser.

Wisdom doesn't come from reading rather it's from listening to the chosen brothers of Christ.

"Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will" Matthew 7:21

Many like David called the Christ Lord! Lord!! but never practiced what Jesus taught so they are not his followers or Christians!

Wonderful thread!

tctrills:
As usual your personal opinion, I respect it but it's not based on the word of God. It's based on the opinions of your white leaders with no scripture to back it up.

Abraham and David aren't Christians!

tctrills:
You keep boasting about your funny group but each time we discuss I keep pointing you to Christ and showing you the errors in your doctrine.
The last time a member of JW called you an imposter. He was really ashamed of the way you represent them.
I was hoping you will reflect upon his words and grow up but I was wrong.
All through my discussions with you I have depended on the words of the bible in teaching you and not my personal opinion. Your organization is based on the personal opinion of your leaders not the word of God

Guy leave story.

Have you now seen that David is not a Christian?

tctrills:
I thought MaxInDHouse would have changed by now. I was wrong. I understand that our beliefs don't align but is that reason to take it personal?

Maximus can never change as long as you're not one of Jehovah's Witnesses don't come any close to me thinking you and i can ever be on the same page.

The difference between Christians and Jehovah's Witnesses is the topic of discussion.

God's Servants throughout all generations are all Jehovah's Witnesses but each generation has a group name that makes them part of our family and there is a reason why we are all related.

But claiming Abraham or David is a Christian simply because he worshiped Jehovah makes no practical sense!

tctrills:
Personal attacks, I thought you have changed or learnt.
But then, wash a pig, clean a pig and a pig is still a pig.
Why don't you focus on the topic instead of personal attacks?
If you don't want me contributing to this thread, just tell me and I promise I will live it alone for you and your members.
These days, I have lost interest in fighting personal battles. I only took the opportunity of your thread to put out the truth.
And as I as I am able to put out the truth and one or two people can read it, my work is done.

The point is you don't believe in the Bible that's the problem you have so instead of trying to argue blindly just ask for knowledge.

From Abel till today we are JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES but each generation of Jehovah's Witnesses bear different group names due to circumstances.
These are the group names Jehovah's Witnesses have been called in times past:

Israelites
Jews
The Way
Christians

From Abel to Job aren't Israelites but they are Jehovah's Witnesses yet the covenant that God made with the Israelites is what makes them dedicated to our God. Abraham is not an Israelite because the name Israel came from his grandson Jacob.
Elijah is not a Jew because he wasn't born into the tribe of Judah or Benjamin yet he is one of Jehovah's Witnesses.
John is a Jew but not a member of the Way or Christian because he never followed Jesus of Nazareth in doing the assignment Jesus gave his disciples but John is one of Jehovah's Witnesses like all others before him! Hebrews 12:1

So get it straight now.
It's the group name JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES that carried all these people together but in each generation they served Jehovah under a different group name!

Jesus returned in the year 1914!

Michael547:
Oga Jesus is the mediator of the new covenant not the old one. So therefore anyone under the new covenant cannot come to the father except through Christ.
Oga Galatians chapter 3:19 and John 1:17 shows that Moses was the mediator between God and the isrealites. Hebrews 9:15 shows that Jesus is the mediator of the new covenant.

I have told tctrills countless times that only JWs knows the sacred secrets of God's word but he often flair up with fruitless arguments now he's trying to come back as usual after years of staying away from my threads.

See questions coming from the same person who wants to argue on biblical topics:

tctrills:
We learn of Jephthah in Judges 11 who sacrificed his daughter. Was it an act of righteousness or murder?

https://www.nairaland.com/6970625/does-bible-endorse-human-sacrifice

tctrills:
100% he did. All the teachings in the old and new Testament are his teachings

You're just trying to argue blindly and i'm not ready for your fruitless arguments.

Jesus said:
“Return your sword to its place, for all those who take up the sword will perish by the sword" Matthew 26:52

God told David:
"You have shed a great deal of blood, and you have fought great wars. You will not build a house for my name, for you have shed a great deal of blood on the earth before me." Chronicles 22:8

So David and all others were servants of God who were faithful and loyal to the true God but that doesn't automatically qualify them to be Christians. Christianity came with a work assignment to all followers of Christ {Matthew 10:11-13; 28:19-20} anyone who never engage in this assignment is not a Christian.

tctrills:
David already told you that he was their Lord.

The PHARISEES, SADDUCEES, SCRIBES and all Jewish Rabbis believe that the Christ is their LORD but when Jesus came to teach them the things of the CHRIST they rejected it.
So it's only those who followed Jesus and ready to practice what he taught them that are Christians not all those calling him LORD! LORD! Simply because they have heard or seen his glory! Matthew 7:21-23

tctrills:
The bible never says you need to know Jesus as a person. You and I never knew Jesus as a person neither did the bible teach that only those under the new testament are christians. Let's not add a new meaning to being a Christian. The most important teaching of Jesus Christ is for us to believe in him and it's clear that they did. He was their Lord according to David.

tctrills:
(A Christians is) a follower of Christ.

Did David FOLLOW Jesus' TEACHINGS?

[quote author= post=131789715]No the SOUL CANNOT be destroyed.[/quote]And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to DESTROY both SOUL and body in hell. Matthew 10:28 KJV

Jesus said the SOUL can be DESTROYED.

So who should we believe, you or Jesus?

Emusan:
That's how a liar behaves.
Very unstable and shameless

NO!
The lying ones will greet themselves as fellow believers but will not agree on the same line of thought just as Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes and other Jewish Rabbis did in the first century it's Jesus and his disciples that SEPARATED themselves from those confused religionists telling them that they are not brothers in the same faith that are true worshipers of God just as JWs are doing today.
None of your pastors will like to stand with me to discuss the Bible because they know that we will never ever sweep the difference under the carpet claiming we are fellow believers but when we see their followers we will not tell them directly that we are not on the same page rather we will calmly show them the truth from God's word that's what Jesus meant by fishers of men!

tctrills:
The bible never said those who put their faith in Christ are not christian. In fact those who put their faith in Christ are the true Christians. It doesn't matter at what time they lived.
Remember, all those who believe will be saved John 3. 16.
Let's not make new rules. Let's just accept Gods words.
That the Jews rejected Christ doesn't mean that all those who had faith in him before his coming are not christians. What point exactly were you trying to make?

You rightly said Christians are followers of Christ which means those practicing what Jesus taught but how can those who have not heard from him practice what he taught when they are already dead before his coming?

They were faithful servants of God before the era of Christ but they never followed him so they are not Christians!

tctrills:
Yes David did not know all things about Christ, neither do we. That's why we go to church to learn more.

Who taught David and where did he learn the law of Christ?

Since the year 1914!

tctrills:
A follower of Christ for example David

David never lived in the day Jesus walked the earth teaching people what they must do to live forever so he never obeyed Jesus' command that's what disqualified him to be called a Christian or FOLLOWER of Christ!

tctrills:
You are saying the same thing. You put faith in the Messiah that has come and they put faith in the Messiah that was to come. It seems both of you put faith in the same person.
Both of you are Christians

Those putting faith in the Christ who is to come aren't Christians they are putting faith in whom they have not seen or heard from so we can't call them Christians because Christians are followers of Christ not people who have heard about Christ like those ancient prophets heard of him but never saw or heard from him.

For your information the Jews who rejected Jesus of Nazareth have also heard about Christ through prophecies but they refused to follow him because he preached and taught what they find difficult to practice from their own opinion.

Take for instance a Jew who has put faith in the prophecies about the Christ from his youth but by the time he met Jesus in person he refused to become one of his disciples because what he expected isn't what Jesus said. Luke 18:18-23

So just as you have rightly said Christians are followers of Christ not those who have heard about him that's why Jesus could say that all those who have heard about him are lesser from God's viewpoint while his followers are greater! Matthew 11:11

1914!