₦airaland Forum

CaptainJune:
Where they are not found wanting they will go to paradise and be taught the ways of the one true God. Others will go to hell. You will be judged according to your works. It is written.

So they don't need Jesus now if their conscience is WORKING right?

CaptainJune:
God the Father, God the Son (the Word), God the Holy Spirit.

Where is this found in the Bible?

CaptainJune:
There are many who genuinely did not hear the good news but God will judge them according to their works and conscience.

And if their conscience frees them they will go to your heaven or hellfire?

Catapault:
You're a fanatic talking rubbish.
YOU don't get to decide who is a christian or not.
Majority of christians, including the clergy, support WARS and monstrous military expenditure.
They are not peace lovers.
Even on this Nairaland, majority of christians support Israeli atrocities in Gaza.

Let me help you!

Do you know the meaning of the word:


"CARPENTER" ?

How will you feel if billions of people claims they are carpenters but they can't just make a chair which you know is the job of a qualified carpenter?

The man called CHRIST taught his disciples to always make peace at all cost {Matthew 10:16} so he COMMANDED them to LOVE their neighbours {Mark 12:31} LOVE their fellow believers {John 13:34-35} and even LOVE their enemies! Luke 6:27-28

So how come you concluded that those loving violence {Psalms 11:5} to the extent of fighting and killing people indiscriminately including those who supposed to be their fellow believers are Christians is what really baffles me!

Just try to compose yourself and figure out the group of people the Bible calls CHRISTIANS first then compare them with what you have today.

However i can present the only Christian group on earth today perhaps you can learn one or two things from their activities!

Catapault:
Look, everyone has a natural in-built fear of dying.
Nobody wants to die.
Even those NDEs that went over there and were begging not to be sent back here, when they got back, they didn't want to just die and go back there again.
It's just a natural thing to want to remain WHERE YOU ARE, be it over there or over here.
It's the way God made us.
BUT it does not negate the fact that THAT SIDE is a on a totally different scale.

The highlighted is really funny!

So there is nowhere to go that's better it just a nightmare that's all!

CaptainJune:
And GOD dying on the cross for you to save you from the sin that would destroy you.

So God prayed to God for help so that God was crying on to God to deliver God?

You need to understand certain expressions!

God said He gave David doesn't literally mean He brought them to David as wives the same way He brought Eve to Adam it simply means a permission for David to please himself with as many women (wives) as he wish.

It's like saying God gave someone lots of money it doesn't mean God brought cash to the person at home but permission to have up to any amount he or she wants.

So when David heard that he knew he wasn't doing the right thing.
WHY?
For God to have uttered that statement means it's not David's right to do so but he was only permitted as long as the Messiah who will set matters straight hasn't come! Deuteronomy 18:18-19
After Jesus whoever chooses to multiply wives for himself is not planning to live in Paradise the original purpose of God in the beginning where only a man and a woman were allowed in marriage which was to last forever! Matthew 19:4-5

AbuTwins:
Grandpa don't tell lies on me na!
I said when you call yourself a Muslim you were only a Mosque-goer or an Alfa Follower!

So what are you? A Muslim right?
Ọmọ you're deceiving yourself because i know Islam much more than you can think of.
You must go to the mosque as a mosque-goer and follow an Alfa as an Alfa follower in teachings otherwise you can't just study the Quran on your own and remain in their midst that's why there are different schools of thought claiming Muslim groups!

AbuTwins:
Even among you Jehovah witness do you have peace? People amongst you commit sins wherein you excommunicate them! How is that Biblical?

God excommunicated and asked Israelites to kill whoever turn against the laws binding His worshipers together as one so it's biblical to excommunicate those who turn against Godly principles! Romans 16:17; 2John 1:10-11

AbuTwins:
Your Governing bodies have been changing your doctrines albeit that's your definition of peace right?
Eternal peace will be in Jannah!

The Governing Body is not inspired so they're doing their best in interpretation of God's word to fulfill what God promised in the Bible at Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3 and Zephaniah 3:9
They have successfully achieved this by helping all obedient members to form a global family of peace loving worshipers. Isaiah 2:2-4
If you people can't produce such a thing with all your beheading and amputations of sinners among you then what exactly is the essence of your Allah, Prophet and Quran?

Catapault:
But the world's biggest producers and exporters of weapons, including nuclear weapons, are CHRISTIAN countries, led by the United States, Russia, UK, France.
This is the direct opposite of your delusions about being ''peace loving worshipers''.
You really need help!

Now it's obvious you don't even know the meaning of that word "CHRISTIANS"

Well i will guide you a bit.
There was a man (whether true or False is not the issue but what we heard he stood for) his name is Jesus of Nazareth after preaching and teaching for about 3 years he asked his disciples what people are saying about him and this is how it goes:

When he had come into the region of Caes·a·reʹa Phi·lipʹpi, Jesus asked his disciples: “Who are men saying the Son of man is?” They said: “Some say John the Baptist, others E·liʹjah, and still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” He said to them: “You, though, who do you say I am?”  Simon Peter answered: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Matthew 16:13-16

Later after his execution, resurrection and ascension to heaven his disciples were called "CHRISTIANS" due to their strict observance of the legacy this man laid down for them. Act 11:26

So how can people who are producing things designed to harm their fellow man be followers of the same man who strictly warned his disciples never to harm others? Matthew 26:52

My guy you've been thoroughly misinformed regarding that group name "CHRISTIANS"

justlove91:
MaxInDHouse, which one be loyal love again can there be disloyal love??

I repeat We don't have to share the same belief to leave together in harmony, so far the beliefs are harmless

@bolded
When I say love, I don't mean affection or emotion. I mean the notion of I wish only good for you and don't wish any harm for you.
That, you can have for anybody even complete stranger with the most ridiculous beliefs.

Living in harmony is not our problem you can see that throughout the world only Jehovah's Witnesses are ever ready to live in harmony with everyone around us that's why we don't join in protest against constituted authorities or pick up weapons against people in the name of politics or military service.
Why not help others to do the same and see if this world won't be better than whatever they told you in their dreams?
LOYAL LOVE is the type of love that exists only within people having the same line of thought that's impossible when you don't believe the same thing!

CaptainJune:
The fountain source of your error is your scarce understanding of the JUST and RIGHTEOUS nature of God...understand that then the rest will easily fall in place.

Someone didn't worship your god because he was confused as there were countless religions all claiming they are worshiping the same God with contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines then your God has created a burning furnace where such a person will be roasted alive forever and ever so that is JUST and RIGHTEOUS from your point of view shey?

Ọmọ Satan has really blinded you because the true God never said that!

Ken4Christ:
The father is not Jesus and Jesus is not the name of the Father. Please, stop bothering me about name and receive salvation.

But you are bothering others about name if someone says he worship the same God with you you won't agree until he mentions a particular name.
Funny Churchian!

Emusan:
Now you agreed something is wrong somewhere. So what are the possibly things that went wrong? I have a Watchtower statement I'll drop after you answer that question

The only thing that went wrong is with people who want to claim that the son was actually praying to himself but deceiving his audience that he was talking to someone else whom he referred to as the father.
JEHOVAH is different from JESUS!

Ken4Christ:
Give me references from the New Testament where Jesus called God Jehovah. You are backward.

Continue deceiving yourself Jesus quoted the Bible book of Deuteronomy 6:4 there the name JEHOVAH is what was written!

“Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah" Deuteronomy 6:4

Jesus quoted Moses

Jesus answered: “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah" Mark 12:29

So you have no excuse!

justlove91:
Stop deceiving yourself, true love is unconditional, in the higher planes where unconditional love rules, you find millions infact billions of people with different harmless beliefs leaving together in harmony. You will find a Christian that belief in one God leaving in harmony with an Hindu that belief in many Gods. Infact one can remain an atheist if he/she likes and nobody will have any problem with it so far it does not affect his capacity to love. We don't have to share the same belief to leave together in harmony, so far the beliefs are harmless.
In your organisation, a member can get disfellowship by having a harmless belief like "Jesus is God" what does it matter whether he is God or not.

Now you want to start deceiving yourself!

In the first place we relate with people of all kinds without being a member of our group so the love we have for neighbours is undeniable the difference between the love we have for a member of our organization and the one we have for others is what we call "LOYAL LOVE"

Of course you can live with billions of people around you but you can only be loyal to those with whom you share the same line of thought.

WHY?

Because it's the same set of rules that binds you together with them therefore when it comes to marriage alliance you can't just get into such with anyone nah.

So it's a lie that you love everyone equally you can't deceive everyone with that because it's not possible!

CaptainJune:
Context. When Christ said to fear God He mentioned hell fire. He was talking about terrifying things contrary to your submission. In the book of Philippians chapter 2, it says to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. Do you relate with your friend in fear and trembling?

The Hellfire doctrine is what you believe so it's OK but my own God never created any Hellfire. It's either you continue living if you're his friend or He stop relating with you and you are left to return to non-existent! Genesis 2:17

justlove91:
Maybe what they want is unconditional love, joy and peace, but they got in and find out this love and peace is conditioned on them following thousands of rules and they just can't take it anymore and would rather get out and come leave with us outside and immediately they decide to leave, "love" quickly turns into hate (disfellowship) even when the person had served in the organisation for years.

Now you choose to reason intelligently but try not to be biased!

If i don't know you from anywhere but decided to be your family because we share the same line of thought what do you think will happen when you decide to stop following the same rules that binds us together in the first instance?

To illustrate: Nigeria is a country where you are free to live as a citizen if you choose to be here with us the only reason why you are part of the family is the constitution which you agreed to live with but then you decided to turn your back on the same constitution that made you a Nigerian, would you still be regarded as a citizen of Nigeria?

That's reasonableness!

CaptainJune:
Read the Bible to know who He is. You are only defining Him with one side of the coin. A coin has two sides. God is a Shepherd and a Judge, He is both loving and terrible. Being selectivley blind to the other side of His nature is deception. He Himself said to fear Him. Jesus told you whom to fear. If God is all love, then why did He say to fear Him? Doesn't perfect love cast out all fear? So why the need to fear Him? The Bible said the demons know there is one God and they tremble.

Fear is not all about terrifying things rather it means the idea of loosing a good friend.

Do you fear a friend?

Can he torture you for breaking his heart?

Well in most cases integrity keepers fear not to hurt their close friends, they cherish friendship!

Emusan:
Another evidence that Jesus never used the name and that the name isn't important for us Christian today. The only Name given by which man can be saved is the name Jesus. Acts 4:12; ROM 10:13, Phil 2:9-10 Nobody is talking about Trinity here. The name YHWH never appeared in the NT.

Of course it surely appeared if Jesus quoted Moses using the name {Deuteronomy 6:4; Mark 12:29} then something is wrong somewhere!

justlove91:
If it's all peace and love, why do we have people leaving it?? I guess the love is too much they can't endure it anymore

Of course not everyone will appreciate love, joy and peace nah, selfish ones will surely despise it!

justlove91:
Your discussions always lead to this "proof"
Ofcourse, it's a self fulfilling prophecy, this organization saw the prophecy in their book and it decides to fulfil it with like minded people, what's the big deal.
And sometimes it happens that a person will find the atmosphere of one sided forced love in the organization suffocating and dump it and you all disfellowsip him/her, you see there is no supernatural glue holding the organization together just bunch of deluded fellas with common delusion.

Ọmọ that's the greatest miracle ever in the history of mankind!

At least you acknowledged one thing: humans from all the countries of the world found like-minded individuals and formed a global family of peace loving worshipers just as that book says.
Ọmọ if you called them deluded fellas yours is the best thing that could ever happen to mankind just that your dreams aren't enough to convince sane people to make the world we live in now a better place where peace loving people of like minds agreed to live as one family.

Meanwhile you are still free to go to your other side after all it's far better than here only that you're reluctant to decide yet!

Emusan:
Smile...

Now you know that there's different.

Well, for now YHWH never appeared in any known OLDEST NT manuscripts in our possession today.

So how can Jesus used it?
If the name is so special, why will it be omitted?
If God actually inspired the NT writer and the name is so important, God would have ensured the presence of the name.

Jesus prayed to his father {John 17:6} whose name is JEHOVAH! Mark 12:31 compared to Deuteronomy 6:4

He never prayed to TRINITY!

Emusan:
No! Was TRANSLATED.
Jehovah was coined because the Four Tetragrammaton can't be pronounced.
Only if you understand that there's different between TRANSLATION and FORMULATION.
Jesus is a translation
Jehovah is a formulation/coined.
Learn learn

There's no need for any if you're sincere to yourself as long as the both aren't what was used by the people back in Bible times!

Emusan:
No! You use MANUSCRIPTS.
KJV is just a TRANSLATION just as NWT.

Of what essence is manuscript when we have found the solution?

The purpose for which God inspired the writers of the book is for his worshipers to form a global family of peace loving worshipers {Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3} the letter doesn't have any value if you're not able to fulfill what the scriptures promised! 2Corinthians 3:6

With the NWT God's promise of a global family of peace loving worshipers has come true!

Emusan:
Yes! because they aren't English speaking but they called Him Yeshua/lēsous. If our conversation is in Hebrew or Greek you can't read Jesus anywhere.

Now you're talking the name Jesus was coined out just as Jehovah that's the point. So you can't kick against one and leave the other!

Hamzaay:
Well, like i said is either u are are ignorant or mixing truth with falsehood. You choose to belive what you wish. You said u were an ex Muslim but don't know why muslim face the kaaba when playing. You said you are a Christian and don't know why Jesus place his head on the ground to pray just like a Muslim does. You don't know the difference between a military training to defend their country and mistake it for military training for war.
I'm sure you have are happy that you have successfully wasted my precious time trying to show me how ignorant u are. Congratulations as this is my last message to u

I know you have nothing to say that's why you'll continue following the Churchgoers up and down the forum since both of you are not interested in the truth.

However there is nothing to defend when you are having issues with your fellow religionists who also claim they are worshipers of your Allah, if Iran and Iraq fought for years killing themselves yet they both carry the same book claiming it's holy from their Allah then it's either there is no Allah between them or your Allah is no more.

As for Jesus he bow down as the custom of his people back then in reverence to God but he wasn't facing any black stone that is where you got it all wrong.

Today i often kneel and bow in my private room while praying to my creator but not towards any image or stone.

If you feel better to take your leave then i will bid you Farewell!

Emusan:
Is dishonesty to say I'm not answering.
Well, that's according to perverted NWT no other translation has that.
Jesus can't pronounce a name COINED by A Catholic Mork thousands of years later

Neither did any of his disciples called him by the name Jesus!

Aemmyjah:
Is it proper to use the KJV as reference when it comes to whether God's name should be in certain places of the Bible?

He wants to erase the name JEHOVAH from the KJV but retain everything else except that name because he has been taught that Jesus was actually praying to himself who is another part of his own existence in heaven!

Emusan:
I've answered this many times.
Here is my question you dodged.
What did Jesus call God during His time?
At least you agreed that Jesus didn't call God Jehovah...

Since you're not answering then my own Jesus called my God by the name JEHOVAH! Mark 12:29 NWT

Tellmeastory:
Don’t talk in riddles to hide your irrationality.
What is your EVIDENCE for anything you believe? Don’t tell us about ants.

In the Bible is found lots of unbelievable things but then the Bible God made a claim that really touched me and i just can't stop thinking about it ever since i read it.

Whatever is found written before now is of no relevance to me than what is happening in my own eyes.

The Bible God said:

And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3

According to this prophecy people from all the nations will start studying the Bible and as a global family begin using what is found written in it as their constitution {Isaiah 2:2-3; Micah 4:1-2} this book didn't stop there but goes on to say this people who are using the Bible as their constitution will resolve all their disparities peacefully among themselves, divert their resources into the production of food and information materials, stop the production of weapons and vow never to raise weapons against humanity! Isaiah 2:4; Micah 4:3

There is no miracle ever recorded that's greater than this!

Do you know what it means for people from all the nations, races and tribes on this planet to come out from among their own people and form such a global family of peace loving worshipers {Zephaniah 3:9} right at the same time when all the others are still planning wars against themselves? Revelations 6:3-4

Well i was a Muslim when i first heard this and i couldn't believe it until i found the organization of people in my own generation who are fulfilling this prophecy today!


So with that anything else this book says whether creation story, the global deluge and the rest became simple to me in fact the God who made that type of promise and fulfilled it today can do much more than all the miracles ever recorded in that book!

Emusan:
I've answered this many times.
Here is my question you dodged.
What did Jesus call God during His time?
At least you agreed that Jesus didn't call God Jehovah...

YES or NO?

Emusan:
That is why it's good to do small research to know the truth. If what you said here is true then you shouldn't argue against Jesus being Jehovah. The fact we have today is that ALL OLDEST KNOWN New Testament manuscripts never have the Tetragrammaton YHWH. One of the reasons Watchtower gave for using Jehovah in the NT is the inclusion in Hebrew J version. Meanwhile, Hebrew J Version are the manuscripts translated back to Hebrew about 1385AD which has YHWH in ALL PLACES WHERE LORD were Used. But unfortunately the same Watchtower failed to applied J version in many places because that will make Jesus to be Jehovah. For instance J7 and J8 translate 1 Peter 3:15 as: (J7) "Sanctify Jehovah God (who is Christ) in your hearts, ..." In this case the NWT rejects the J Version's use of the word Jehovah, rather reading; (NWT) "But sanctify the Christ as Lord in your hearts, ..."
J7 includes YHWH in reference to Jesus at Acts 9:5 - "Who are you, YHWH?" Saul asked. "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied."
Here the New World Translation choses not to follow the J versions, translating Acts 9:5 as;
"He asked: “Who are you, Lord?” He said: “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting." Other verses in which the Tetragrammaton appears in the "J" versions but not as Jehovah in the New World Translation include;
1 Corinthians 12:3
(J14) "...no one can say "Jesus is Lord Jehovah, except by the Holy Spirit."
(NWT) "nobody can say: "Jesus is Lord!" except by holy spirit.
2 Timothy 1:18
(J7,8,13,14,16,17,18,22,23,24) "The Lord Jehovah grant unto him that he may find mercy of the Lord Jehovah in that day..."
2 timothy 1:18 (NWT) "May the Lord grant him to find mercy from Jehovah in that day."
You can see what Watchtower sold to you and you're repeating here is false.

The NWT uses the divine name where it correlates to what is inspired in the Hebrews Scriptures so there is a careful approach in the translation work to verify where Jehovah applies but since you think Jehovah is the same as Jesus how can you figure out such errors in the old translations?

First of all there must be an agreement that the father totally differs from the son if you're not interested in that then your research will hit the wall!