₦airaland Forum

erniok:
You said God said so and I need that portion of the scriptures.

Exodus 19:5-6 stated plainly that only Israelites are God's special property but since you feel you feel gentiles today claiming they're performing miracles are doing it for the God of Abraham why not mention one instance in the whole Bible?

erniok:
You said outside israel that was why I pointed out lystra. As per a so called gentile, I agree that scriptures bears no express record of that and it could be on the account that acts of the apostles focused on the apostles.

Because only Israelites were promised to be God's special property! Exodus 19:5-6

erniok:
On the issue of timothy having stomach ulcer, I still stand with the scriptures. It was never called stomach ulcer show me if there is

Just quote what the verse (1Timothy 5:23) says and explain that's all!

I have told you several times that you're not a real atheist but time will tell because only the worshipers CONGREGATE together due to the same line of thought they have but as for atheists it will never ever work as each of them is seeking his own glory and advantage!

erniok:
Where is this in the scriptures that gentiles are to preach only. Pls show.
Are you aware that in the church in corinth, they exercised the same gift as in acts 2? And even had prophets. A gentile church.

It's one thing to argue for understanding but it's another thing to argue for controversy so if you want to be sure of what you're saying just present one single gentile from Genesis to Revelations who ever performed a miracle.

Thanks!

erniok:
I answered your question and you had to bring another twist.
The bible never ever said bro Timothy had stomach ulcer I don't know where you are getting that from.
So the healing at lystra in acts 14 and casting out demo in acts 16 are what again? Care to explain?

The highlighted:
Read 1Timothy 5:23
Then come back and tell me what you found.

No healing happened through the hand of any gentile but if you have any please show me!

Blessed4sure:
I have checked at least 10 bible versions including the most reputable and popular ones: KJV, ESV, NASB, etc. As well as reputable bible commentaries.
They all have these verses, and the commentaries interpreted them in a similar manner. So I sincerely don't know what you're talking about. I'd rather work with those bible versions and commentaries than any random online historical article.
BTW, Jesus said the same thing in John 14:12

If you are sure then i have nothing to tell you i have versions that doesn't include those verses but it's a matter of deep research!

erniok:
Read matt15:24. In sending out the 12 to preach in matt10, they had strict instruction not to go into any of the gentile cities. What about the syrophoenician woman case.
He did come for the whole world but there was a time for that and it was after his death and resurrection not before. But while physically on earth, his ministry was to the house of israel.

Can you mention one disciple who is a gentile who is able to perform miracles?
Timothy is one of the most active disciples in the first century he had stomach ulcers which was never cured miraculously so don't get it twisted Jesus never sent them out to perform miracles outside Israel!

Blessed4sure:
I agree with you that majority of ministers doing signs and wonders today are fake, and are probably not from God, as evident in the lifestyle of the ministers, purpose of the miracles, and so on.

But real ministers using the Holy Spirit's Power for miracles still exist.

Christ instructed his disciples when leaving the earth to go out to all the world and preach, and that signs are wonders will follow them, and that He will be with them until the end of the world.

Mark 16:15-18
[15]And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
[16]He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
[17]And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
[18]They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

So, I believe signs and wonders exist today, as part of the Holy Spirit's instrument in converting souls.

Not all pastors do signs and wonders for money. My pastor organizes global crusades preaching to sinners and at the end of his sermons, he prays for God to heal them. And His ministrations are always followed with signs and wonders, without a dime collected from those who are healed. Perhaps more than 80% of them don't even get integrated into his church.

If God can convert a sinner and transform them spiritually, is it such a great impossibility for Him to remove their physical ailments?

Signs were given to go along with the ministration of the gospel in all ages and generations. Satan recognises the importance and introduced fake miracles and all that, but that doesn't nullify God's own purpose in giving His ministers power for signs and wonders.

Finally, please read the passage you quoted in 1 Cor 13 in more depth. You'll see that the state of perfection that Paul speaks of, is in the life hereafter, in Heaven, not on this earth. At that time, love will still exist, while tongues, prophecies, knowledge (in the form and manner we know it now), will all cease to exist.

He wasn't hinting at any point in this world where they will cease to exist.

Hence, while interpreting the same passage, you cannot apply a different timeline for the cessation of gifts.

Most people claiming they're miracles workers often refer to this book but let me tell you today that the original script written by Mark in chapter 16 ended in verse 8
So what you're quoting today was added by some people it wasn't part of what Jesus said.
Please check as many versions of the Bible and read the preface to know what happened at Mark 16 they will tell in the preface that they got those verses from other sources but not with the former writings.

erniok:
I sincerely hope you don't discuss like a certain kobojunkie that reads the scripture and gives it an entirely different interpretation else I'd have to discontinue. The answer lies in 21st and 24. Do his will. Earlier verses shows that by their fruits, we shall know them and certainly, so many are producing the wrong fruits. Does that mean we.lump all ministers of the gospel together because of them? God forbid. Even bro Paul talked about those who preached with ulterior motive and even rejoiced that in all, the gospel is preached. So if he sends you to heal like he said in mark 16:18 and you refused, you have fallen into the disobedient.

According to God's word the only work left for gentiles to do for Christ is preaching zealously and industriously teaching in their own lands that's the import of what happened in the Bible book of Acts 2 where Jews were given the gift to speak in foreign tongues, this people were meant to take what they heard back home to their people.
But as for signs and wonders apostle Paul said when Christianity has been fully established it will all seize! 1Corinthians 13:8-10

PoliteActivist:
*Politeness*
Friend, are all these below true about you? Do they call you Mad MaxinDhouse, etc.?

Gbam! Now it's obvious you're looking for any support you could get against me but that's your own cup of coffee.
Documentary upon documentary!

James said FAITH without WORKS is DEAD! James 2:26
So what WORKS was he talking about that without it FAITH is useless?

As for TB Joshua i know him, his extended families, his home town, his times of struggle, his guardian who trained him here in Lagos and how he begged the family for assistance to travel to America and later returned just few months later to tell the whole family that they shouldn't bother anymore because he has found something that will make him popular and wealthy to the extent of sponsoring people to America.
All of these and many more i can tell you about him including ìbẹ́gbẹ́ festival in Arigidi Àkókó that Joshua always send food stuffs for the festival which is marked every 9 years.
One thing i won't take is for religionists of the same page to come and start rubbishing him as if they're anything better than him!

Blessed4sure:
Hmmm. But Paul, the apostle to the gentiles, did many great and mighty miracles all through the gentile world.
What would you say about that? Is it possible you misunderstood the passage you're referring to?

Jesus chose just 13 Apostles in total 12 for the Jewish nation alone and 1 for the rest of the world {Act 9:15; 1Timothy 2:7} that's why Paul was given the power to heal among the nations but that gift was never passed to any gentile and Paul made it clear to his fellow believers in the first century that such powers is for a short period of time so that by the time Christianity is firmly established all such powers will seize among true Christians! 1Corinthians 13:8-10
Of course Satan always imitate what is good {2Corinthians 11:14} so he will also empower his own agents to do something similar {Revelations 16:13-14} but it will be for another purpose! Matthew 24:11
Satan's agents have always wanted fame {Genesis 6:4} so instead of telling everyone that the power was a free gift from God {Act 14:14} they gather people to start making money like magicians earning money due to their performance!

So if you see anyone performing signs today in the midst of a crowd they are all FAKE as for prayers being answered the true God answers all no one is special!

erniok:
They are not fake sir. I beg to differ. In the scriptures, the Lord's power to heal was limited because of unbelief of the people that he marvelled. The scriptures recorded only a few were healed. If I believe in God, then how can't I believe in miracles. I have personally prayed for some folks and seen them healed. It was all power in his name and faith in him that heals. Nothing more, nothing less.

Jesus said those people are FAKE and he will deny them because they're workers of iniquity {Matthew 7:21-23} the word iniquity could also mean lawlessness.
So how are they lawless?
Because they focused on fame and presented themselves as if they're special before God if it's the same God then all those believing in Him supposed to possess the same powers not just few men gathering crowds to exploit them!
Those they're gathering supposed to be performing the same miraculous works if the criteria is the same. But the truth is that the criteria to earn such power is not the same that's why they're famous and exploiting those running to them.
If it's just about faith someone who left his or her home from far distance to come and be healed has already proved he or she has faith in the power of God!

erniok:
While on earth, he came for the jews

Can you please expatiate on this?

Because from what he said at John 3:16 God's sent Jesus so that everyone believing might have everlasting life so why the clause if he was to save the whole world?

Let me make my stand clear again perhaps you something contrary:

Jesus came to save the whole world but when talking about the gifts and benefits of miracles he said it must be only among Israelites because they are God's people with whom God has always proved His powers and that's why they're to take salvation to other lands! Matthew 28:18-20; Act 1:8

So please explain how God sent Jesus so save the whole world {John 3:16} but at the same time he came for only the Israelites! Matthew 15:24

If it's not about the gifts limited to Israel alone.

Thanks in advance!

jesusjnr2020:
Of course I knew that being a serial rapist, killer, adulterer, doesn't prove TB Joshua to be false prophet according to you. The same way your convicted JWs of similar crimes were still the only true men of God.

You don't know what ACCUSATIONS means but if you're truly sincere you can go to Israel now and listen to what Israelites has to say about Jesus of Nazareth perhaps after listening to all the bad reports they gathered about him and his disciples you will learn to focus not on accusations but verified facts! Exodus 23:1-2

PoliteActivist:
*Politeness*
That's what I mean by being a willful LIAR. Christ CALLED 12 men who became his closest associates. TB also called his own closest associates - he asked them to stay behind and live in the synagogue and be his closest confidants. You've been asked to mention ONE of the 12 who wrote TB about Christ.
You were asked to tell us how one DIRECT and EXTREMELY CLEAR verse in the Bible said salvation is dependent on works and you go beating about the bush as usual!

God's word stated clearly:

"Just as the body without spirit is dead so also FAITH without WORKS is DEAD" James 2:26

I think where you have issues now is what type of WORKS Paul talked about and what type was James emphasizing?
Because from what is written in God's word James expressly stated that WORKS really count not just FAITH!

As for TB Joshua's case i know you're troubled as i've persistently maintained that you have no scripturally based points to condemn him the man surely had FAITH and his WORKS still speaks loudly even after his death because many are testifying to the WORKS he did through the gift of SIGNS and WONDERS he possessed.

So what you don't know and trying to bury now is the type of FAITH and WORKS the Bible is referring to and how TB Joshua never met the criteria to qualify as a Christian of course the same yardstick disqualified all the others you may think are servants of God today that's why you don't want further discussion on that!

epainos:
So, you dont know thw governing body of your church.

Whoever they are so far they perform miracles today, they are all FAKE!

epainos:
Thank God!
Anyway...the added "wayo" guys are the governing body of the Jehovah Witness.
Thanks for accepting that your own fake wayo Jehovah Witness na scam. For future reference, here is the screenshot. You can't deny it anymore.

Are they performing miracles today?
If they are then they're all FAKE!

zoer:
Stop accusing falsely.
If called upon will you be able to defend what you said? Is it because they are not members of Jehovah witness you are accusing them?
Please can you tell us more since you know them well?

U don't know them more than you do all i have is what is written in the Bible!

So if you believe the Bible you and i can work together to figure out those who are disciples of Christ and those who aren't his disciples.

Are you ready?

jesusjnr2020:
Thanks for proving me right.
I know you can prove he is a man of God and others you judge aren't.
Hypocrisy at its finest!

Of course you can hide from the truth because you don't have any scriptures to prove that TB Joshua is not a man of God.
Whatever disqualifies TB Joshua equally applies to all your friends/pastors.

Plus1234:
You this werey boy. Jw fake prophesy ,satanic founder ,occultic followers who don’t believe in Heaven,hell and believe Jesus is michael.

Thanks for your time! Matthew 5:11-12

erniok:
Portions of the scriptures jesus explicitly stated this please.

Davoneskay:
Help me out with the Bible verse please.

cucumbar:
abeg where this one Dey for bible?

If you trust (believe) the Bible please open:

Jesus told his disciples to go and preach with miracles only among Israelites! Matthew 10:2-6
When a none Israelite woman begged Jesus to perform miracles on her child Jesus openly told her that he wasn't sent to any other race apart from Israelites! Matthew 15:24
That's why you can't see any mention of a single prophet who is not an Israelite that's performing miracles.

So when Jesus said some will perform miracles using his name yet he will declare he never knew them he was referring to all these guys who doesn't know that God has a purpose for only Israelites {Exodus 19:5} that's why they are workers of lawlessness! Matthew 7:21-23

Ironbull:
Hahahha u wan kill me with laughter wallahi.

May laughter and joy never depart from you in Jesus name, as for all those people claiming they're performing miracles in Jesus name ọmọ they are all LIARS!

PoliteActivist:
*Politeness*
You know, it is one thing to say things out of ignorance, it is quite another to be a willful liar. God forgive me for even mentioning TB and Lord Jesus together. Christ had his closest associates and helpers who were called the 12 - the apostles. Mention ONE who wrote things about him alá all these TB's closests about him.
You quote scriptures when NECESSARY! You don't use it as a means of obfuscation.
I quoted scriptures when warranted, and we are still waiting to hear from you how it means that salvation is from works!

Guy what you and i are reading about Jesus in the Bible was written by his FRIENDS not his enemies but if you want to know what his own people are saying about him today just do yourself a favour by traveling to Israel to hear what his own people have to say.
That's why most people are saying the NT was fabricated because what was written inside has no backup among the Jews till today!

If i want to discuss with a Jew today even if he is from the same family with Jesus there are scriptures in the OT written by their prophets to prove that Jesus is the Christ not what those living in the first century said. So his disciples and Apostles only witnessed what the prophets foretold so even though a Jew found it difficult to believe in Jesus their own scriptures has proved that Jesus is the promised Messiah (Christ)
So i'm not just following what his first century disciples wrote there are scripturally based points that no Jewish Rabbi can refute.

PoliteActivist:
■[[(Ephesians 2:8-9) It is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast” ]]■

This is what James wrote:

Nevertheless, someone will say: “You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” You believe that there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder. But do you care to know, O empty man, that faith without works is useless? Was not Abraham our father declared righteous by works after he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? You see that his faith was active along with his works and his faith was perfected by his works, and the scripture was fulfilled that says: “Abraham put faith in Jehovah, and it was counted to him as righteousness,” and he came to be called Jehovah’s friend. You see that a man is to be declared righteous by works and not by faith alone. In the same manner, was not Raʹhab the prostitute also declared righteous by works after she received the messengers hospitably and sent them out by another way? Indeed, just as the body without spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead! James 2:18-26

SaLongs1:
Thay Lazarus Muoka with the spiritual vest. I once collected one from a friend who paid for it but didn't get the desired result so I use to wear it to my farm.

Don't worry Holy Ghost mopol will start assisting you in your farm now!

jesusjnr2020:
You're such a hypocrite.
Did I invite you here to judge me? So why are you crying fowl when you're being paid back in the same coin?
Your organisation obviously has something in common with the cult of TB Joshua, that makes you target those who expose their atrocities as those of yours.

Thanks jàre at least you can't prove TB Joshua is not a man of God apart from BBC stories.

Ọmọ that's enough to expose you as a friend of blackmailers!

PoliteActivist:
*Politeness*
Kindly, this is like talking to a totally tone-deaf person with a touch of kolo.
How many times will you be told, these are NOT Pharisees and Sadducees, these are his closest and most intimate disciples who lived with him for years and saw everything first hand, all saying the same thing! And it's not only them, there are also outsiders saying the same things. I've already told you of his mother warning him not to use their dark powers; I've already told you of a devastated young girl who had never been to SCOAN who narrated how she lost her virginity to TB in a hotel room, etc.
You want absolute proof, do you have absolute proof about anything? Do you have absolute proof you are not dreaming all this, or absolute proof the apostles wrote the Gospels, etc.?
Stop defending what you know in your heart is not kosher just because JW have come out in support of it - out of fear they could be next! Remember, there is consequence to supporting evil. Also, if anyone had any doubles b4, this support further proves JW is NOT a wholesome organization

Guy it's obvious you have no scriptural based points to back up your lies that's why you're trying to use cheap blackmail!

Jesus of Nazareth gathered thousands of disciples but many of them turned back from following him and they never returned! John 6:66

So when false witnesses were called to come and testify against Jesus do you think it's the disciples of Pharisees?

Come on, use your brain!
Anyone following the Pharisees have been warned strictly not to believe in Jesus or they will be expelled from the synagogues! John 9:22

So all those witnesses used against Jesus were his former disciples who are now trying to gain the approval of their religious leaders and at the same time make some money like Judas Iscariot?

ihatebuhari:
stop quoting wrongly. Jesus never said so.

Jesus said greater works shall ye do.

Please what WORKS exactly was Jesus talking about here?
Because there is no human on this planet not even the Apostles can perform 1% of miracles Jesus performed! John 21:25

Ironbull:
Ok if they arrest you and ask you to proof it with evidence I hope you will be able to do so?

I will use the Bible to prove that they can't get such power from the God of Abraham because He never promise any other race such powers apart from Israelites.
So if they call for my arrest it will be excellent way to put them to shame because i will use the Bible to open the eyes of all those following them that is if anyone is ready to listen to the truth.
Next time don't use the word ARREST because it's against the Bible for anyone who claims he is for Christ to arrest accusers regarding the work of God.
That's why TB Joshua can't arrest anyone as they all know that it's UNSCRIPTURAL to call for the arrest of anyone speaking against their works of course they can send hired killers after their accusers but arrest for the accuser to speak before the court of law?
Ọmọ in fact that will be the end of all their businesses.
I'm not Daddy Freeze o so call any of them and tell them a man is ready to prove that they're not using the power of the God of Abraham!

Ironbull:
Are you sure of what you are saying?

100% sure!

Blessed4sure:
And how did you know this?
You belong to the same cult with them?

Jesus said miraculous gifts are giving only to Israelites and for the benefit of Israelites alone!

epainos:
While I know some of the names above are fake, not all. But your list is not complete... including
Kenneth Eugene Cook, Jr.
Gage Fleegle
Samuel Frederick Herd
Geoffrey William Jackson
Mark Stephen Lett
Gerrit Lösch
Douglas Mark Sanderson
David Howard Splane
Jeffrey Winder
Anyway, T.B. Joshua is an as.shole... no contest. But the names above among the as.sholes.

YES! All of them are FAKE!

ihatebuhari:
at least many of us can testify the goodness of jesus Christ.

"Jesus Christ"

The sweetest name in the history of mankind!

Guy i no be Muslim jọọ i'm a Christian to the core Jesus expressly stated that miraculous healing is strictly for the benefit of Israelites only so God gave only Israelites the power to perform miracles and after the destruction of Jerusalem in the first century such powers seized until Jesus return to establish God's kingdom no more miracles in the hands of any human!