₦airaland Forum

duduspace:
Thanks mazaje, I find Davidylan a very intriguing personality, I have a strong feeling he is intelligent enough to see reason in a lot of these posts but deliberately chooses to allow his religious beliefs overcome his logical thinking. As someone aptly pointed out, he has chosen the blue pill.

he is here hyperventilating about the MU experiment but he still believes in the stupid and meaningless jacob genetic engineering model. what a shameless fraud and charlatan. even with my limited knowledge of chemistry and biology i can clearly see that he just grasping at staws. he said that he does not believe that the world is billions of years old but went ahead and cherry picked points from websites that all said that they earth is billions of years old to prove is twisted points(he even provide wrong equations to support his twisted points). what a fraud.

@ bindex

kai, ashe abun da ya faru da kai ke nan?  . ne ma ina kano a wannan lokacin(2004) amma a kabuga na ke lokacin da a ka fara rigiman. abun ba da di. Its so unfortunate. e dan ka duba profile di na za ka gan yahoo id di na ka adding di na so bo da ma na chatting duk lokachin da muka sa mu halin yin haka. ne ma labair na ya na kusa da naka. to ya za mu yi? wannan labarin babu da di.

@ chris
happy new year man.

Chrisbenogor:
Imhotep
How does one prove a negative? You say there is a God we say show us.

chris read your bible.

pope 1:
22 people play the game, a referee and 2 assistant  officiate, several thousand  pay to watch others make all kinds comment. How many win the gold and get paid in the various currencies?

how those this explain pastor adeboyes lies?

If Church is a good business start your own now and see how easy it is to get called daddy, make money and ride in Bentleys.

i'll start mine when i get back to naija and i will buy a g5 not a bently

Friends, if you see the [b]ark [/b]moving ( pray you know what that means) and you don't know what to write fold your fingers. Leave them to God and if you can't, call the police instead of wasting precious time disccusing men making waves in the world.

is it the same wooden ark that the biblegod once lived inside? men making waves in the world or frauds making waves in the world. fraudsters are the only people that lie that they travelled for over 300km on am empty tank with a straight face.

Is it that easy to blindfold people's mind?

sure all you need to do is meet some ignorant and close minded people(nigerians), sweet talk them into believing what ever you say and you are done.

[quote author=~Lady~ link=topic=212658.msg3291719#msg3291719 date=1230765069]These would be the prostetants. And it is my point, so why were you saying what you said as if you didn't know any better?[/quote]that's the point i wanted to make all along to show you guys what a confused bunch you guys really are. you guys can't even agree on a single thing.

The Catholic Bishops chose which books were to be included as scripture. The Word of God is still binding and considered the word of God based on the authority of the Church. The authority is the Church not the Bible, unfortunately the view of it has been twisted and that's why people are misunderstanding a lot today. It is the Word of God because it is called so by those whom God gave the power to bind and loose. SO it is no less the word of God because men defined it as such, because the power to do so came from God. So the Bible being revered as the Word of God isn't diminished just because Catholic Bishops put it together. The writers were known, how? Because of sacred tradition. The Church was able to choose the rightful books for the Bible through sacred tradition. Without which we wouldn't know who said what, taught what, wrote what, and did what. Protestants don't realise that they wouldn't have the Bible today if it wasn't for sacred tradition, they don't even know that the Bible itself is sacred tradition. So when they speak against sacred tradition, they're actually speaking against the Bible without knowing it. Lol, funny huh.

even though some of what you have written are true and i agree with it, most of what you have written is pure catholic dogma mixed with catholic talking points.

1) What example about sodom and gomorrah?

read your bible lady

*sigh* Ok one more time, Noah's view of the world was all he could see, therefore when Noah speaks of a global flood he is only talking about what he thinks the world is. Now because the Bible was translated word for word without any attention to fit today's society, global flood is still there.
The story as the Bible puts it is true and it did happen as several archaeologists have proven that a flood like that did take place in the region where Noah lived. What is so confusing to you and so many others is that you all think the world being talked about there at that time is the world as we know it today. It is not the same thing. Just because it says world does not mean the world that Noah saw is the world that we see today. Get it now. The Bible does not need to change, we need to understand the time and place, and culture these books were written.

It is a global flood in the mind of Noah, but what Noah considered as global is not what we today consider as global. So the Bible is not misleading you, it is actually giving you the full truth of how Noah saw it. You just fail to understand Noah's time.

all i have to say is that you are a liberal christain. i showed you were god said that he was going to destroy the whole world and everything that lives in it, yet you still hold onto your belief that it was not a global flood and come up with the excuse that noah wrote down what the biblegod said and not the biblegod himself. i don't believe we can ever go anywhere with this kind of reasoning. its either you don't accept what noah wrote as the words of the biblegod or you do not believe in the story at all. choose one.

One more time, did God write it down? Or did the person narrating it write it down? And what are you now a protestant?

the biblegod spoke the words according to the book of noah. must everything lead to the endless catholic and protestant beef?(my friend back in naija can not even marry his girlfriend as i am typing this because he is not a catholic.)

we will get to the bottom of it, if you will just answer my question and stop acting like a kid that knows it all.

you have not asked any question.

Don't twist my words. They are direct accounts of events, but some of the gospels were not written by the eyewitnesses. Notice I mentioned sacred tradition, Mark wrote down what Peter had experienced with Christ, therefore making it authentic. Luke wrote down what was also handed down to him by the eyewitness and because he was a companion of St. Paul, and was well known by the Church as a companion of the apostles. It wouldn't be surprising of Mark and Luke actually wrote what the apostles said before their death and then presented it to their communities.
The Bible was compiled so that the Church can use it for guidance, I addressed this earlier actually so no need to be redundant.

They didn't mistake dates, time and what was said, you still haven't shown me these contradictions. I don't know where you get your info from but you may want to check it twice. Chris did the same thing you're doing now, and then he presented me with these contradictions only to find out that there were no contradictions at all, it was the site he got his information from that was wrong. So be careful to take on your head what isn't true.

this is catholic dogma, and i don't even know what to do with it, you might be right though, i wasn't a catholic when i was a christain so i don't know anything about scared traditions. all what my pastors told me then was that catholics were misguided people who were all going to hell unless they repent and accept the true teachings of jesus. i showed you about 4 contradictions that just don't add up but you just made light of them and declared that they weren't contradictions. here is one. when was the last supper eaten? according to mark it was eaten on the feast of unleavened bread(second of the seven annual jewish festival) while john said that it was just before the passover feast (first of the seven annual jewish festival) so which is it lady? don't come up with your convoluted explanation that speaking to different people or audience lead to that contradiction. the last supper is a very important ritual in the christain religion so if the alleged eye witness can't even give the same account of when that very important ritual took place what then happens to the rest of their accounts? this is not an account of jesus passing on the street(hope you understand what i mean)

Then those people will have to tell us how the Bible came to be. The gospels included the words of others, have you read the Bible at all? Do you have a problem with the gospel using third person instead of approaching it as something personal? Newsflash, it wasn't meant to be a memoir of the person writing it, it was meant to be used for instruction in their respective communities. Just as my accounting textbook is written by stice, stice, and skousen, they are not personal and are not written in the first person.

ask them (people that dispute how the bible came to be) when you get the chance. you are just playing with semantics here. you are just  trying to make light of the whole thing. you are truly a liberal christain. fundamentalist nigerian christians who know nothing about how the bible came into being just take it as the literal and ultimate word of god without understanding why , how and for whom it was written. that mindset and reasoning is really doing the country a lot of harm and damage. coupled with the irrational actions of the slaves of allah.

Continue reading John and you will see that even in John Mary magdalene sees the angel. Just because Matthew doesn't mention the afore mentioned events of Mary running to get the apostles doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Like I said the writers were writing to different people, the way they describe the same event may be different, but it doesn't change the event from happening. I used an example earlier about the sermon on the mount where Christ gave the beatitudes. I said Matthew has Jesus sitting on a mountain to relate to the Jews who were used to Moses as authority, and Luke has him sitting on a plain to relate to the Gentiles who were used to philosophers giving speeches on plains as authority. To you these may seem as contradictory as you will try to figure out if Jesus was on a mountain or not, but to me understanding that these writers were painting a picture that their communities would understand they described things or explained things to fit their audiences.

you keep stressing that because they wrote to different audience it is enough excuse to explain away things that don't add up. i used to have a hausa bible and  the hausa bible was translated verbatim from the english bible. mountain was not changed into a plain so to associate it with hausa philosophers or hausa culture, it was translated just as it was written in the english bible. you are just building straw man after straw man here. when mary first encountered the risen lord jesus, did she know of his resurrection? according to matthew, she had, according to john, she had not. how does writing to different audience explain this?

You still haven't shown me the contradictions, and no what you wrote up there are not contradictions. Like I said go and learn the culture and time of these people and then come have these discussions again. Go and study theology first and then you can attempt these discussions again. Until then you will not get it.

so now theology is what i need to critically explain contradictions that are glaring abi? you keep on bring the excuse of culture and time, what has culture and time got to do with the fact that matthew said the fig tree withered immediately while mark said the fig tree withered the next day in the morning? keep in mind that they both reported what jesus said diffrently even though mark said " and his diciples heard him say those things "

Trust me I have, but you won't see it until you go and study what I pointed above. And besides you've conceeded once before to my point.

you haven't pointed anything out. i  conceded to your point because i am not the one that will see something starring at me right in my face and say it's something else. this accounts of events are only found in the bible and other books that were banned from the bible so their account of events should be consistent don't you think so?

duduspace you have done an excellent job in exposing that clumsy fraud for who he really is, the only straw he now has to grab is  the*YAWN* straw which makes him look more petty and silly. davidylan all this long post from you only to be exposed as a fraud? what a shame am really loving this. ok i want you to go ahead and explain the jacob genetic engineering model. dudduspace you've done well ohh, thanks once again for exposing that shameless fraud, people should not engage christains when it comes to science until they tell us what they really understand as a rainbow, is it a phenomenon that causes a spectrum of light to appear in the sky when the sun shines onto droplets of moisture in the earth's atmosphere or a covenant between the biblical god and his people that appears in the cloud as written by the bible writers who wrote on stones and lived in caves? davidylan is talking about peer review when most of the christains i know here in europe do not believe in the seven day creation story, jacobs genetic engineering model, talking donkeysand the rainbow explanation as written in the bible etc. christains all have different conception and understanding of the biblical god yet this fraud of a pseudo scientist does not see that, all he sees is what is wrong with the MU experiment, which has explained far more than they mythical creation of light and sun through words of mouth(probably hebrew) by his imaginary child killer god. what a load of bull.

chris which one be cain and abel again?

Bobbyaf:
I figure that both writers emphasized things differently.  First of all Matthew does not say that the fig tree's cursing occurred on the day following the cleansing of the temple. He simply said it was in the morning as he returned to the city with the rest of the disciples.(see Matthew 21:18) Matthew didn't specify which day he was referring to.

Mark on the other hand approached it topically, and specifically. He makes mention of the tree when Jesus departed for the temple, and during the following day after they were returning from the temple.

Besides, how different writers choose to describe the same event has no bearing on whether they were inspired. Inspiration doesn't rob a person of their freedom to express it the way they understand it, or desire their readers to see it.

Each writer had their unique way to express themselves. They weren't dictated to in which case they would be writing their accounts word for word.

if this two passages do not contradict each other then i concede that i don't know what contradiction means.

matthews account

Early in the morning, as he was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. 19 Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, "May you never bear fruit again!" Immediately the tree withered. [/b]20 When the disciples saw this, they were amazed. [b]"How did the fig tree wither so quickly?" they asked. 21 Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. 22 If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer."(Matthew 21:18-22)

marks account

The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. 13 Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. 14 Then he said to the tree, "May no one ever eat fruit from you again." And his disciples heard him say it… In the morning, as they went along, they saw the fig tree withered from the roots. [/b]21 Peter [b]remembered and said to Jesus, "Rabbi, look! The fig tree you cursed has withered!" 22 "Have faith in God," Jesus answered. 23 "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. 24 Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. 25 And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins."(mark 11:12-14, 20-26)

Going back to the emphasis I was trying to highlight. Somewhere along the journey Jesus noticed a fully leafed-out tree. Normally fig trees would bear the fruits first after which the foliage would flood as it were the entire tree. In this unique case it afforded Jesus the opportunity to teach a lesson that truly reflected the Jewish nation. The jews, and especially the religious leaders boasted and feigned spiritual piety, but they bore no fruitage of conversion. In fact many of the Jews were set on crucifying their own Messsiah before the very same week would be over.

even as a parable, we cannot ignore this point. if we can translate the fig tree into the people of israel, we must also translate this incapacity(the fact that it was not season for figs) into the nature of the people of israel. in this instance it would seem jesus is saying that the people of israel are being punished for not doing something they were incapable, by nature, of doing. its like if jesus punished the jews for refusing to fly in the sky. humans don't have wings and no matter how much jesus might want it, they cannot do it. how can Jesus punish them for something like this, especially when, as god, it was him who made them incapable of performing what he wanted (In my example, it would be god's fault for not giving human beings wings, if he wanted them to fly)

its also worth pointing out the jesus punishes the tree forever. it will never bear fruit again. how does this translate into the parables meaning? i don't think i really need to spell that one out. an eternal punishment for not doing something you are incapable of doing. not very nice, is it? i don't know. . . . I still keep getting stuck on the whole "it wasn't the season for figs" bit. had jesus understood this, and had patience, he would have known that in less than a year that fig would have fruits enough to feed many. however, he either did not understand that each tree bears fruit in its own season, or it made no difference to him, and he destroyed it, thus making sure that this tree would never again feed anyone. perhaps the same is true of the nation of israel. perhaps it simply wasn't their season. perhaps, if god had waited a bit, like the fig tree they also would have born fruit. however, the biblical god did not wait. it was not done on his time line, and so it was not to be done at all. my analogy might not make sense to you but that's how i see it.

I am consoled with the thought that your opinions are not[b] factual[/b], but you're free to express them anyway.

let me answer this even though it wasn't directed at me. it is a fact that the gospel account are not found any where else apart for the bible and other books that were banned from the bible. there are no independent record of any of the events(by a contemporary historian or writer of that time) apart from what is written in the bible if there is any please provide it for us to see because you have to consider that it wasn't season for figs.

[quote author=~Lady~ link=topic=212658.msg3291216#msg3291216 date=1230749771]But they lived in roman territory, hence greco-roman. They traveled a lot, and some were citizens of rome and rome was not a set place it included nations, and therefore they could travel freely about from place to place.[/quote]why not greco-hebrew?(pun intended)  

Yes I do and know it to be true. When they were written they weren't written to say ok this book will be scripture if that is the case then there wouldn't have been any need for the councils to decide which books will be considered scripture. they weren't scripture until the Church defined them as scripture. This was a point you were trying to make on another thread so please learn to be consistent with your point. It is either the Church defined scripture and therefore you think that scripture is man made and the church is the problem or the writers acknowledged that their writings are scripture therefore having no need of being defined so by the Church. You can't have it both ways, your points contradict each other, pick one and stick to it.

i concede that i can't have it both ways. i know that there were no scripture but some of the books of the old testament when the books of new testament were assembled. the scripture i alluded to in 2timothy does not mean the bible as we know it to day even though most christains mistakenly assume it mean the bible as it is today. the truth is that the catholic bishops choose which books to be assigned as part of the bible as we know it today, edited it to form a coherent narrative and presented it as the word of god. the catholic church assigned the names book of moses to the pentateuch, matthew, mark luke and john to the gospel. even though the writers were unkown.

Well that was my point, noah viewed only what he could see as global. Therefore when he wrote global flood, he only wrote of what he knew as the world and that was as far as his backyard maybe. The Bible is translated word for word and is not translated to fit our society.
I was stating that Noah didn't know that asia or the americas existed therefore he didn't know that the world consisted of these, so when he speaks of world he speaks of that which he can only see, not that which we can see.

do you believe the story as the bible puts it or don't you? the bible says it was a global flood yet you keep insisting that it was a regional flood despite the example i gave you about the city of sodom and gomorrah before they were destroyed.

I'm sorry but did God write that down or was it the people that was narrating it?

the bible says that it was god speaking why are you still opposing what the bible says? here it is

13 And God said [/b]to Noah, “I have determined to make an end of all flesh,  For behold, [b]I will bring a flood of wate[/b]rs upon the earth to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life under heaven. [b]Everything that is on the earth shall die.

do you still want to argue?

Um no the Bible had never done that, you assumed that that's what's being done. We know that Mark and Luke were not direct disciples of Jesus, you that don't want to believe in God, made yourself believe that it was written to give a direct account of what they saw, the only ones that give a direct account of what they saw are matthew and John. Mark gives an account of what Peter saw, and Luke clearly tells you in the beginning that he did his own investigative work and decided to write it, it is even addressed to a man named Theophilus.

lady lady, if they are not direct account of events and as a result they report events and mistake dates, time and what was said why then do you guys believe that the bible is the word of god? how can you trust the words of hear say and third parties which were written 60 years after.

Yes the message was to be spread globally but the writing were targeting different communities. Like I said earlier these writings were not written to be scripture, they weren't expecting us to have it bound as a book to be read in the pews. They didn't even know there would be pews like today, they thought Jesus was coming at their time, they were expecting him to come as they were undergoing persecutions, and as you and I both know it has been 2000 years.
Each writer had his own audience, you read these today as scripture because the Church defined these ones to be scripture, there were plenty of books that were written, these gospels were chosen because they were the earliest to be written and their account supported the teachings of the disciples, apostles, actual eyewitnesses. This is why the Church strongly believes in sacred tradition. Without it we wouldn't have known which books were supposed to be scripture or which was authentic.

are you promoting your catholic faith here or are you trying to explain that which is in the bible? there are so many people here on nairaland that will not agree with what you have written here. you keep repeating the words disciples, apostles and eyewitnesses. why were the gospels not said to have included the words of others? the gospel according to matthew, mark, luke and john is what is written in the bible.

None of the gospels contradict each other, they give an account of the same thing in different ways, like I said earlier they were all targeting different audiences.

how does targeting  different audiences explain the contradictory account of the events that happened with the story of the fig tree? matthew said the tree withered immediately while mark said the next day in the morning. when was the last supper eaten. one of the mark said on the feast of unleavened bread(second of the seven annual festival ) while  john said on before the feast of passover( first of the seven annual festival). what actually transpired at the tomb of jesus? how does targeting different audiences explain the irreconcilable account of events like the who, what, and when questions regarding that happened  during the resurrection of jesus? lets examine the reports according to matthew, roman guards were posted to prevent the body from being stolen away. they became as dead men for fright at the event of the resurrection as mary magdalene approached the tomb. (many apologists seize on this report, indicating the resurrection is the only explanation.) but, john makes no mention of these soldiers and, according to that gospel, mary, in fact believed jesus body had been stolen. there were no frozen guards nor even the angel to greet her as she came to the tomb. left to wonder, she went to the disciples in fear and shared her opinion that Jesus corpse had been stolen. this is different from matthew, again, in that an angel appeared to mary magdalene, sending her to the disciples, not with the theory of grave robbery, but the joyful news of the resurrection.

this is not a minor detail that can be swept aside with the common, eyewitness apologies that discount the higher standard required of the bible. This is the significance of messengers for heaven and what god communicated to the first witness of jesus resurrection. it leads to a second insurmountable problem for the consistency of the biblical testimony. when mary first encountered the risen lord jesus, did she know of his resurrection? according to matthew, she had. according to john, she had not. if the bible is not reliable on whether the risen jesus revealed himself to his own or was  revealed by angels to his own, when then do you guys consider it as reliable on the fact that jesus was physically and historically risen? and how does targeting different audiences explain this?

No you never took your time to study the Bible, and came up to a conclusion that it isn't rational. You never met people who could actually get you to understand the Bible using logic, and then when you did, you just couldn't handle it, that's why you have your undies bunched up right now. You just don't want to be proven wrong. You're hoping that christianity isn't rational, and you've been proven wrong, and now you can't take it so your best bet is to get riled up and fire insults our way.

when we apply logic you guys are quick to say its either a miracle or the story is an allegorical narrative. i don't rile insults on your guys, the only people that i have insulted on nairaland are davidylan (because he is always the first person to call people morons, goons, or people without brains who should not be taken seriosuly) and the other guy that said he will kill me if he meets me. i only insult christains when the call me a fool for not believeing in a god or when the insult me when i ridicule some of their pastors.

Those accounts were not written 60 years after the death of Jesus, it is impossible. All except for John were written before the destruction of the Jewish temple in 70 AD and Jesus' death occurred around 30 AD, that gives 30 - 40 years and not 60, so please you all get your facts straight.

the first book that was written was mark and it was written around AD 60, i will send you the link, besides i saw it on a christain website. even if it is 30-40 years as you claim it still does'nt take away the fact that there are contradictions reported and 30-40 years is a long time to make put into question all the account of things that were written.

I prove you wrong and all of a sudden I am a mental gymnast? Ok, I accept, thanks for the title.

you haven't proven me wrong.

@ lady season greetings, i am presently in a new year party but will reply your post shortly.

davidylan is the biggest hypocrite on nairaland. he accepts the jacob model of genetic engineering but comes here posturing as a scientist who knows alot about science when its clear he is a pseudo scientist who knows nothing about science. and god says "let there be light and there was light" ask him to explain how the process occured he can't, explain how jonah survived inside a fish for 3 days and all we hear is its a miracle. where did you get all your knowledge of science from is it from the bible? does the bible know anything about how the world is when it shamelessly narrates the noah's story? did moses and his friends that killed a man because he was picking sticks on the sabath know anything about this equation that you wrote?

2 CH4 + NH3 + 2 H2O ↔ H2N.CH2.COOH + 5 H2

do the so called matthew, mark, luke and john know anything about it? why did the bible say that evil spirit causes blindness?
is rain bow a convenat btw the biblical god and his people?
does james the david, elijah, ezekeil, abraham and all those murdering thugs know anything about atomic oxygen? do the writers of the bible know anything about the BAM process? does james the brother of jesus know anything about environmental concentrations of inorganic substances? let me not belabour this point but where did you get your knowledge of science? is it from the bible? apart from the imaginary heaven, hell, and the ability to kill babies because their parents worship other gods, what does the bible and the god it advocates know? science has no answer but yet you use its proceeds everyday. how has the biblical god helped in the creation of computers? does he know what a computer is? what a goon.

The nail could not be hit more squarely on the head. And it is not just Nairaland. But the whole of Nigeria. The entire education system is based on cramming and regurgitating impressive sounding words. But ultimately very little understanding. Actually it is a global problem, but it is especially concentrated in Nigerians. We too like grammar, at the expense of common sense.

what is ur defination of common sense from the bible. turning your other cheek when slapped or maiming and removing your body parts if it causes you to sin as jesus said? bunch of goons.

Chrisbenogor:
I wonder why no "open minded scientific" christians have not come to explain, just say big bang or evolution now and they would come running from their caves.

the reason why pseudo scientist like davidylan can not come here and defend this extra ordinary claim of genetic engineering is because it was written by his imaginary god inspired men, even when reality and fact says other wise. passages like this and the rain bow description in the bible make pseudo scientist live davidylan who claims that science have no answer cringe with shame.

auwal87

God is ONE
He has no SON
He has no WIFE
He has no PARENTS
Everything is His OWN
He Controls Everything

jehova has a son called jesus.

Pastor AIO:
Most prostitutes also have a man they call Daddy, and they also give their daddy all of their money.

i will take this as a lame attempt at a joke. besides most prostitues do not claim to be gods of men men of god.

Martian:
I can't understand how anybody believes he drove for 200miles on empty. He has these people wrapped so tight around his finger that they call him daddy. I mean WTF?

he is their daddy but he does'nt give them any money when they are in need of money instead they are the ones that give him all their monies, daddy indeed.

davidylan:
eeyah pele, drink some cool-aid. u'll soon feel beter.

see this militant imaginary son of jehova. bindex no mind am. aks am btw the 2 of you who is drinking the cool-aid?

Bobbyaf:
As regards the fig tree.

Fig trees normally bear fruit when their foliage is plenty.  This one in particular had a lot of leaves but no fruits. Jesus expected it to be fruitful, but found it fruitless at a time when it was most needed. He cursed it and further used it to highlight the hypocracy of the religious leaders of the day, who show signs on the outside to indicate fruitage, but under closer examination they are indeed bare.

As for Jesus not knowing that the tree in question was not bearing is really irrelevant.  Was it expected of Him to know?

did you read the passage according to mark?

The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. 13 Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. 14 Then he said to the tree, "May no one ever eat fruit from you again." And his disciples heard him say it… In the morning, as they went along, they saw the fig tree withered from the roots. 21 Peter remembered and said to Jesus, "Rabbi, look! The fig tree you cursed has withered!" 22 "Have faith in God," Jesus answered. 23 "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. 24 Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. 25 And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins."

how can jesus expect it to be fruitful when it was not yet time for figs? why was jesus expecting the fig tree to do that which it can not do? it was'nt the season for figs how did jesus the creator of the fig tree not know that it was'nt time for the fig tree to produce figs? jesus highlighted the hipocracy of the leaders how? by expecting them to do what they can't do like he expected the fig tree to produce out of season?

[quote author=~Lady~ link=topic=212658.msg3288736#msg3288736 date=1230700429]I am Nigerian my main language is Benin and yet I speak English. Italians also speak and write in English. Do you get it? You don't have to come from England to write and speak english.

Most of the people living in Jesus' time spoke and wrote greek. Ever heard of greco-roman? For someone with "knowledge" you seem to know little.[/quote]how does this explain anything? the people that alleagedly witnessed all the events were hebrew not greek. i have never heard of greco-hebrew.

The gospels are not written like a narrative fiction, you view it as fiction. However it is a narration and that's why it is in third person, considering the fact that the writer was not the only person present at these events of Jesus' life

the gospel according to matthew, mark ,luke and john is what is written in the bible, the gospel according to what they witnessed and saw as deciples of jesus, your claim of other people present is BOGUS. if there are other people then please let us know who their names are.

The gospels were not written to be scripture.None of the books in the Bible or at least the New Testament were written to be scripture. .

what is this lady?   do you really believe what you have written? what about a place in the new testament where it was written that all scriptures are inspired by god? 2 timothy 3:16 says "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,  " what does that statement mean and what now becomes of your assertion? the other day on another thread you claimed that noah's flood did not happen globally because noah wrote the story according to his understanding of the world when the bible clearly say it was a global flood(i wanted to point that fact to you but i was busy). here is what your bible says

They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered. 20 The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than twenty feet.  [c] 21[b] Every living [/b] thing that moved on the earth perished—birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the[b] earth[/b], and all mankind.

Genesis 7 said that the flood destroyed "all" mankind and "every" land animal and presumably insects included. If he had meant those in a certain locale and not the entire earth, he could have said so. when describing the destruction of Sodom there was no problem in saying the inhabitants of a certain geographical area were the ones destroyed, not all mankind:

23 The sun had risen on the earth when Lot came to Zoar. 24 Then the Lord rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the Lord out of heaven. 25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the valley, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and what grew on the ground

and remember when the biblical god was giving noah the warning this is what he said.

11 Now the earth was corrupt in God's sight, and the earth was filled with violence. 12 And God saw the earth, and behold, it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth. 13 And God said to Noah, “I have determined to make an end of all flesh,  For behold, I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life under heaven. Everything that is on the earth shall die.

you christians will tell any lie that suits you at the time won't you?

During a time of persecution the eyewitnesses were dying quickly and they thought it best to write down these narratives so as to have records of what happened before it got lost in time. While Jesus walked the earth, the disciples weren't reporters who carried notebooks and tape recorders to capture every thing that was said

this is another lame excuse. the bible gave it as the report of the diciples of jesus according to what[b] they[/b] witnessed not according to what they and others witnessed. what about the parts where it was written that jesus was alone? how did they get to know what happened and what jesus said when he went and prayed alone? there is no where in the gospels where it was written that jesus went and prayed alone came back and shared what he did or said when he was alone to his diciples. how did they know and write about it 60 years later?

Most of the gospels were not even written to be read universally, they were written to a specific people, that is why each writer describes things differently. For example Matthew was writing to the Jewish Christians and therefore used images that identified with the Jewish people. Luke wrote to the gentiles who were associated with greek philosophers and therefore used images that identified with them. One example of this is the beatitudes sermon. Matthew describes Jesus as sitting on a Mountain likening him to Moses and Moses is viewed as authority, while Luke has Jesus on a plain likening him to the greek philosophers as most of them gave their speeches on a plain, on level ground.

this is BOGUS.  jesus came to save the world as the bible claims yet you say that the account of events written about him were not written to be read universally? what is this lady? you keep building straw man after straw man and end up confusing yourself. what has that got to do with the very contradictory report of events? like when did jesus and his diciples eat the last super? was it before the passover feast(first of the seven anual festival) or on the feast of unleaved bread(second of the seven anual festival), when did the tree wither? is it immediately or the next morning? what did god say and to whom when the dove came down on jesus after he was baptised? how can eye witness report very different and contradictory account of events? besides they were no ordinary eye witness they were jesus's diciples who were with him all the time. remember mark even said "and his diciples heard him say this" yet their account of the same event were very different and contradictory.

So you see the gospels or any of the books in the Bible cannot be appraoched or read as if it was written today and to us. It must be understood as it was written, understanding the message one can then apply it to today's life. If I were to write a narrative of Jesus giving a sermon, I would create an environment that had him on stage with a podium with a presidential sign as this is symbolic of power and authority to people living today

this is not true, you are traying to rationalize what is written in the bible, some christains try to rationalize the bible thats why we have christains who believe that non christains will go to heaven, women can preach in churches with men, homosexuals should be accepted etc when the bible unequivocally says other wise. this analogy is ridiculous. by the way those accounts of events were written 60 years after the alleaged death of jesus, that alone says a lot about the veracity of what is written as the accounts of eye witness.

So oga if you truly want to understand it, you have to first be willing to do the work. Learn the culture of the people then and how they reasoned. Then and only then will you fully understand the messages in the Bible

so madam i have seen that you are really a mental gymnast. since the contradictions does not support and makes a mess of what is clearly written in your holy scriptures, you have to try and cloud what is written, twist it and reshape it to make it fit with reality.

jayon:
Fool didnt elijah of the bible ran faster than the Chariots of Ahab with bare foot or didnt Philips ran up to the ethopian man, read ur bible

i will take this as a joke .  also keep in mind that pastor adeboye lied to the former governor of ogun state when he told him that his god spoke to him and told him that the guy was going to win his re-election bid, only for the guy to loose to gbenga daniels. why does his god keep urging him to tell lies to people?

Chrisbenogor:
I watch the program too and I support goverment to lock up people like this malachi even on false charges before people like kuns drink cyanide.

that one dey ohh, kuns fit shoot himself because of the man.

Abeg oh busybein no dey my house oh , no put me for trouble, I only ask because una dey play love since na. I no wear paynt make una carry my buluku down

nothing concern me concern busybein ohh. just tell her say make she no near my house. make she remain for ya house the wedding done die i no do again.

OLAADEGBU:
For your information, Christians don't die but sleep in the Lord. This is the difference with unbelievers who have no hope after death. Believers in Christ who "die" are only absent from the body here on earth and present with the Lord in heaven. But this is not the case with those who are spiritually dead here on earth, when they die they face the second death which is the eternal separation from God in hell then in the Lake of fire.

This is the reason Jesus died for us so that we might have life and to have it more abundantly. He took the sting out of death so that when we "die" we go straight to heaven to be with Him. The unbelievers who are without hope get scared of death because they don't know what will befall them and that they are certain to face an eternity without God. Therefore, God is not asking you to consider it but He is commanding you to repent otherwise you will certainly perish.

pls can you reason for yourself and stop spewing scripted dogma that you have been indoctrinated with since child hood? ok you will sleep in the lord next week.

bindex:
When did the Fig tree wither? was it immediately as said by Matthew or the next morning as said by Mark? beside that what did Jesus really say? did he say "May you never bear fruit again" or "May no one ever eat fruit from you again." Keep in mind that Mark went ahead and said "And his disciples heard him say it". If his diciples heard him say it then why the very different and contradictory accounts? The two statements are very different statements that are not the same, there is a great difference between not bearing friuts again and people never eating fruit from a tree again. A tree could still bear poisonous fruits which would make people not to eat from it again, that is different from not bearing fruits at all. Since there are no records of Jesus ever doing any of this things beside those recorded in the bible I believe that says a lot about the veracity of all the events recorded therein.

People still believe that the gospels were written by the diciples of jesus despite all their very contradictory narrative of events, did the last supper take place on the day of the feast of unleaved bread(second of the seven annual events) or on the day before the passover feats(first of the seven annual events)? If the deciples of jesus really wrote the gospels as alleaged by bible apologist when are some of the gospels written in koine greek (when non of the writer is greek) or written in the third person ? why are the gospels written like a narrative fiction? why do we have parts where only jesus was present? why were the gospels written about 60(a long time for someone to live in those days, let alone remember what happened all those decades ago ) years after the death of jesus?

OLAADEGBU:
I am what God says I am and if God says it that settles it and I claim it. God still has a purpose for me here on earth which is not yet completed and when my time is up it is up to Him to decide when I go home. And for your information we shall not all (sleep as in death) but some of us will go to heaven without dying. So to go to heaven you don't necessary have to die, examples of those who took that route are people like Enoch, Elijah and eventually the Church of Jesus Christ. So don't get left behind repent now before it is too late. Save yourself some pain by checking the link below so that you can have rest for your soul.

http://www.mtainfo.com/

OLAADEGBU ok since its obvious that death is what you are scared of. you shall not die but go to heaven just the way elijah did and never to return back to the world next week.

Chrisbenogor:
Mazaje I dey bo seasons greetings to you too, men this kuns dude has been worked on, e dey pain me say naija guy like am go fall this kind rubbish. How your lolo busybein, is junior on the way ?

i tire for kuns ohh, i bin dey take am seriously initially ohh, me bin think say him be atheist or agnostic ohh, me no know say him na another level him dey entirely. i bin dey watch how jim jones been make people kill their family and their selves for cnn the other day(escape from jones town) i bin dey wonder why people dey believe such cult leaders only for me to come see one for nairaland.

o boi why you dey ask me about busybein? no be your house she dey? tell her say make she no come back here ohh. i suppose dey fight with you sef but me i no dey fight because of woman. so make wuna dey enjoy wuna selves, its obvious say na u she like no be me. so enjoy. . . . . .

OLAADEGBU:
"I shall not die but live and declare the glory of the Lord" That is what the Lord has said concerning me, and since He said it, and I claimed it, that settles it. QED

After haranguing and lecturing people about how they need to accept jesus and be saved in heaven when they die, you are quickly screaming that you shall not die in bold when told that you will die and go to heaven next week . he did not say that you will die and go to hell, he said heaven but you still shouted rejected, and said no to death. you guys all want to go to heaven but non of you wants to die, what an irony. me thinks you guys do not really believe in what you are espousing.

bindex e be like say kuns don get new brother ohhh

Chris how far? how body? season greetings, no mind kuns him dey another level entirely.

JJYOU:
ops he is in london

are u in love with poverty as an idea or u are just jealous u are notthe one riding the car

hey will you stop giving credibility to a man that lied that he travelled for over 300km on an empty tank?

bindex abeg no dey follow davidylan dey drag. check other thread across nairalan mostly na him dey always drag with others . i was loking forward to some explanations including (spiritual and holy ghost fire) of the obvious contradictions when you guys came and ruined the thread. now nobody will like to contribute again. .

bindex why are you stalking kuns? (the man from mars)