₦airaland Forum

JeSoul:
Your opinion on the matter my dear.
I happen to think the God of the OT is a no-nonsense entity - the same God of the NT. I have said this several times and will repeat it again:

Pls i will like to know what no nonsense mean here? it is very true that the hebrew god of the old testament has no sense at all if he does he wouldn't have been depicted the way he was in the old testament. what sense if there in telling men to stone to death another person for picking sticks on a sabbath? what sense is there in hardening people's heart and punishing them for hardening their hearts? i agree with you that the hebrew god of the old testament clearly has no sense.

A lotta people have a hard time reconciling a loving, caring, righteous God with some of the events recorded in the OT . . . what we forget is that[b] God is as much loving as He is fearful[/b], as much caring as He is consuming fire, as much as God is to be worshipped, He is to be equally feared, We only get the fairy-tale description of God in most churches & in the world, they fail to teach that God disperses immense love but God also unleashes intense wrath. And we see this love and wrath all through the OT.

The problem he is that there is no choherent defination of god even amonts the christians? there are so many definations and all of them seem to cancel each other out. the god that the catholics worship is very different than the god pat robinson worships but that is another different matter entirely. how can you reconcile a caring god that loves humans with the same god that kills babies because their parents worship other gods? what did the babies do wrong? what kind of wrath is that? you said that god needs to be feared? it strikes me as still incomprehensible that a god could somehow or other gain anything by torturing his creatures for the mere satisfaction of compelling them to believe in him.

So maybe the problem is with our preconceived definition of who God is and His characteristics? instead of starting at ground zero and building our understanding of God from there, the problem is we've made up in our minds a 'moral, loving' box and then tried and failed to fit God into it. God is far beyond the grasp of our human intellect, which is why we need His spirit to indwell us and reveal to our spirit who God is & why certain things He permitted seem so crazy & immoral to us.

Who defined god and his characters? the writters of the bible did, no god has ever told any body what his characters are and you judge any god based on what the people that created him wrote about him. the hebrew writters wrote everything that we know about their god and we will use the chracters they attributed to such a god to judge him. what zero ground are you talking about if i may ask? god is far beyond our human intellect is always the lame excuse, god lives out side time and space so he can not be understood. this is the same excuse apologist provide but it falls falt because Our good god is in some way or other, right, showing people a certain amount of "soul-building" evil or wicked wrath on his side, so that people may come to know Him. that seems, quite frankly, ridiculous. it makes god into some kind of a sadist, which i believe he is judging by the way he is being portrayed in the hebrew bible, who will whip his creatures just so they know how good they have it. this strikes me as very, very strange. why can people just accept that the people that wrote the old testament wrote it based on their level of morality at that time. our level of morality today has by FAR out grown theirs.

Again your opinion Maz.
I have read the bible "properly" for years, and see no problem. The OT is bursting with prophecies that came to pass in the NT . . . what is your explanation of that if the NT is the fairy-tale you claim it is? No one is debating judaism here, of course it still exists. I thot we were talking about God and His chosen people?

When you look at all the prohecies in context you will see that they were either mis interpreted our an outright fogery or lies, we will leave that for another discussion. as for the hebrew god and his chosen people it begs the question of whether the hebrew deity yahweh was in fact "god," with apparently no consideration at all to the possibility that yahweh was simply another tribal deity who was no more real than gagon, chemosh,b, ishtar, and other regional gods of that time who he loves killing or punishing people because they worship those other gods.

Here is yahweh stealing other people's land and giving it to his chosen people( he commanded them to kill off all the inhabitants of the land in the process of stealing their lands).

Exodus 3:6 Then he [Yahweh] said, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob." At this, Moses hid his face, because he was afraid to look at God. 7 Yahweh said, "I have indeed seen the misery of my people in Egypt. I have heard them crying out because of their slave drivers, and I am concerned about their suffering. 8 So I have come down to rescue them from the hand of the Egyptians and to bring them up out of that land into a good and spacious land, a land flowing with milk and honey--the home of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites. 9 And now the cry of the Israelites has reached me, and I have seen the way the Egyptians are oppressing them. 10 So now, go. I am sending you to Pharaoh to bring my people the Israelites out of Egypt."

this clearly shows that yahweh is a theif and a land grabber, he ordered his chosen people to steal the land of other people just because they needed to reside in a spacious land flowing with milk and honey, since he was incapable of providing such kind of land to hischosen people he had to command them to go kill, rape and steal the other people's land and what was the other people's crime? nothing.  in some cases their crime was that they worshipped other gods despite yahweh giving them the free will to worship the other gods(thats if we are to go by what the bible says), instead of yahweh to tell is people to preach to them (unbelievers) and convert them he preffered to have them killed and their women raped.

davidylan:
I made no such claim in my post you quoted. So the rest of what you had to say made no sense to me.

ho will what he has written ever make sense to you when you clearly do not have any sense when it come to the bible? you throw away your sense and and use emotions when dealing with the bible. you call allah a babaric god when your god is equally babaric. i dont believe in the bible but here is what your stupid imaginary blood thirsty god did on behalf of his "chosen people". (even the satan that you guys love to hate would not have done worse than your "merciful" yahweh)

Joshua 11:20 For it was Yahweh himself who hardened their hearts to wage war against Israel, so that he might destroy them totally, exterminating them without mercy, as Yahweh had commanded Moses.

this passage is clear enough that it needs no extended explication. the verse claims that yahweh himself had hardened the hearts of the canaanite kings so that he could destroy them totally and without mercy. If the Bible is to be believed, Yahweh hardened the hearts of the canaanite kings so that he could exterminate them without mercy. what kind of god is this? and yet you guys keep bandying the same old lies thatyou worship a merciful god? do you guys know what mercy means? and you davidylan have the right to open your mouth and insult allah when you god is no different? delusion at its finest. go ahead and spin it and say that we do not understand what the bible is saying.

Bastage:
You blame everything on religion Huxley, but religion is not the direct cause of misery.

It is just a tool. Money and power are at the roots. Religion is just a means to gain that money and power and the fundamentalists are the slaves who keep the wheels turning.

Very true. . .

Some of the ignorance on display here is truly mind buggling . . . . .

toneyb:
What makes you think you understand what is in the hebrew bible better than me or any other christian or athesit out there? you have to claim that everyone around that question what is written inside doesn't understand what the bible is saying when you meet things inside that do not make sense. i was once a christian and i know all the apologetics and excuses. did the hebrew god of the old testament choose the jews as his people? did he command them to fight others and pillage their lands, did he command his chosen people to ensalve them and rape their women? so what the heck are you talking about me not understanding what is in the hebrew bible? one thing with religious books like the bible and the koran is that you have to  have the SELF DECEPTION REQUIRED in order to presume it true beforehand so when you read them and see things that don't fit or make any sense you overlook them or try to explain them even through dishonest ways.

very very good point you have said it better than i would have said it myself.

papa giddy:
@ mazaje. seems like you just hate GOD. how can a man be fightin his creator like this. [/b]most of all ur post here is anti God. my brother, u cant win o!

The biblegod is not my creator. . .

JeSoul:
Mazaje in what basic definition and context does God refer to the Isrealites as His "chosen people"? Have you read the entire bible and how the story plays out?

I have read the entire hebrew bible (old testament) and the writers of the hebrew bible clearly think that the god they created was enough to carry out their evil attrocities.

[b] God chose the Israelites not to show favoritism to them and them only, He chose them to use to bring about His purpose and plan for the whole world. God chose Israel as the means with which He would bring about salvation for the whole world. Please read the entire bible not just portions that butress your beef.

are you sure of what you are saying? the hebrew god of the old testament is a very tribal and ethnic god that seems very unhappy when the normadic jews whom he refers to as his chosen people mix with other people. he highly discourages them from marrying other non hebrew tribes. he urged them to enslave and brand other people. read the book of joshua, is there anything in joshua with its wars, its murders and massacres, its swords dripping with the blood of mothers and babies, its tortures, maimings and mutilations, its fraud and fury, its hatred and revenge calculated to improve the world? all it shows is how wicked and evil the mind of the god which the jews created in their own image is. The book of joshua is as merciless as famine, as ferocious as the heart of a wild beast. It is a history a justification a sanctification of nearly every crime.

The book of judges is about the same, nothing but war and bloodshed; the horrible story of jael and sisera; of Gideon and his trumpets and pitchers; of jephtha and his daughter, whom he murdered to please jehovah. The hebrew bible(old testament ) is filled with stories about god commanding his choen people to kill others even with out provocation for land or women.

and if you read the NT you'll see who this "Israel" and "chosen people" really are:
Romans 9
It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.
Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac
that your offspring will be reckoned." In other words, it is[u] not the natural children who are God's children[/u],
but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring

and who are these children of the promise? those who believe in Jesus and accept salvation.

As he says in Hosea:
"I will call them 'my people' who are not my people;
and I will call her 'my loved one' who is not my loved one,"[i] 26and,
"It will happen that in the very place where it was said to them,
'You are not my people,'
they will be called 'sons of the living God.'

Any body can qoute a verse in the bible to support his position, i will love to read the passage u pasted in context. if you read the bible properly before the christian founders came and high jacked the jewish religion and created a god out of the old jewish god you will know that the jewish god emains a tribal god forever. by the way the god the jews worship is not the same god that christians worship because the jews do not believe in jesus and their god has no son. Judaism is still alive you can go and ask the jews if you dont believe me, as far as they know they dont worship the same god with the christians. the christian god was formed out of the jewish god.

Book, chapter and verses please?

How dare God not choose to work out the magic the way Mazaje wants?

Rm9: One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' "Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?

The writers of the bible know for sure that people will some day question their very foolish assertions, and to keep people in line they came up this line.

why all the fuss about a pastor buying a jet? he was clever enough to trick people into donating their money to him to buy a jet. if any body feels he can do the same let him go ahead, leave adeboye alone to enjoy his jet.

OLAADEGBU:
"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified Him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.  Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, . . . "

This proves my point again.

proves which point just because you copied and pasted a verse in the bible you think you have made any sense? i can equally copy and paste a verse in the bible from the mouth of your imaginary god that will make you and your entire belief cringe in shame. you have a belief in the words of unknown ancient hebrew savages and you hold it up as facts i know i'm not the only one who struggled to understand the story of adam and eve with the avialable facts that surround me. i know i'm not the only one to not believe in a talking bush. i know i'm not the only one to question a virgin birth. i know I'm not the only one who struggled to believe the story about Noah's ark, all the unnecessary wars and why a supposedly good god will have a chosen people and urge them to kill people meaninglessly even when they were not proviked at all in some cases. i know i'm not the only one to believe many of the claims in the bible. when it boils down to it, you're either going to buy into that crap, or you are not. i used to think i bought it, but once I realized what i was believing, I knew I had to free myself from such nonsense.

If you have faith in any of that stuff, YOU must realize that you will always have a hard time trying to prove something that no proof even exist for. you are stuck. you MUST have blind faith because that's all you have. You must go around preaching to the world that a bush can really talk. think about it! you are stuck trying to convince the world to believe in something that you have not even witnessed yourself. and to make matters worse, almost everything a believer believes in seems a lot like fairy tales, but yet, the believer does not believe in fairy tales. Think about it! You religious people go around telling people what will happen to him, me and yourself when you die when you know for damn fact that you don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about. these same people don't even know what the world will bring tomorrow, but yet they know so much about the afterlife because it was written in some book that some guy had a vision about it 2000's of years ago. and please, stop claiming to know what god thinks and wants when many of you people can't even seem think for yourselves.

OLAADEGBU:
It does not surprise me at all that atheists and evolutionists cannot understand the obvious because Satan your master has blinded your eyes and darkened your hearts and stopped your ears so that you cannot see, perceive or understand the light of the gospel.  I will be expecting too much from you by thinking that you will understand how Mathematics can crunch the numbers and prove evolution to be a fallacy.

Can you show us the so called maths?  by the way who is satan? is it the imaginary being that your own imaginary god has been incapable of handling?

I am neither a mathematician nor a scientist and I am not claiming that the post is my doing, all I am doing is to show what the real scientists are coming up with that supports the biblical account of creation.  Sanctified scientists and mathematicians are able to do real science as opposed to the false science you atheists call evolution.  And as you can see that these scientists come up with scientific facts that verifies the biblical knowledge as recorded in the book of Genesis.

Who are the scientist you are talking about? what have they verified? you are more deluded than i thought.

As long as you guys (atheists, evolutionists, [b]theist evolutionist [/b]and all who see through the evolutionists worldview) refuse to see through the biblical creation worldview but insist to see through the evolutionist spectacles, you will remain in your blindness and continue to grope in darkness because you have rejected the truth of the word of God.

Who told you that theist evolution have no right to believe in what they believe? there are a lot of christians who believe in evolution just as  there are so many atheist who do not believe in the TOE. like most christians, you arrogantly DECIDE what beliefs and doctrines are "correct" and which ones aren't. you like to sit there and pretend that other "true christians" agree with you, but the PLAIN FACTS state otherwise as there are millions of other people who believe that they are "true christians" and yet disagree with you on what you believe. unless you can demonstrate WHY your beliefs and doctrines are more than mere opinion, you're just spinning your wheels and talking about how your driving 100KHM while other believers are spinning their wheels.The problem is, for those of us without belief in your faith, we can see that EVERY ONE OF YOU is going nowhere.

But if and when you decide to remove those evolution goggles from your faces and then watch and understand how ludicrous it will be for at least one man and one woman 500,000 years ago (according to the The Theory of Evolution) that reproduces and average of 2.5 children will result in 2.45 x 10⁹⁹⁰ today, it does not take a rocket scientist to realise that that the universe will struggle to contain that amount of people.  No wonder the Bible says that a fool says in his heart, there is no God Ps.53:1 It is only fools and this time around crazy people that will continue to propagate the theory of evolution as a fact.

It is only fools and crazy people that will continue to propagate the hebrew mythology as facts.

[quote author=**osisi link=topic=252768.msg3642962#msg3642962 date=1238019359]Stay there and be entertaining a bipolar individual instead of pointing him to the nearest NHS shrink in Manchester.
His own family couldn't help his situation and you think you can?[/quote]What is this fool saying?

wirinet:
Mr Olaadegbu,

You never give up on you obsession with evolution, it is a pity you lack of any shred of scientific knowledge is a handicap to you, so you just Google up any anti evolution site and paste any thing you find there on this forum.

Please just what is the mathematic for arriving at you population census that will produce 2.45 x 10990 people in 6,500 yrs. Do you also have a handicap in mathematics? Please also use your formula to calculate how may Rats we will have in 6500 yrs since an average female rat has more than 6 offspings every 6 months or so. Also apply for formula to cockroaches, ants, algae and finally to bacteria and see what you will come up with.

It still beats my imagination how a reasonable person can postulate that Biblical creation is more logical than evolution.

It is very clear that Olaadegbu does not know what he is doing, all he does is to copy and paste things he doesn't understand as long as they are against evolution.

The whole story of jesus' death and resurrection is a farce, the writers of the gospels do not even know when he died talkless of when he was alleged to have ressurected. one very simple question, when was jesus crucified? was it on the day of passover or on the eve of passover? It all depends on which gospel account you read, one of the gospels says that jesus was crucified on the eve of passover while another gospel account says that he was crucified on the day of passover, so which is it? he can not be crucified on both days can he? we have the difference in timing too was he crucified in the morning or in the afternoon? again it depends on which gospel account you read.

[quote author=**osisi link=topic=253302.msg3642228#msg3642228 date=1238006671]Let the enemy of the gospel always be put to shame.
He shall  stumble and fall.
The Lord will always raise a standard against him.
He shall come against the man of God one way and flee seven ways.
Destructon shall be at his door.[/quote]Same old meaningless rants form the stupid and deluded foot soldiers of an imaginary deity called yahweh, Bleep yahweh tell him to strike all the non believers dead if he can. . . . nonsenese.

duduspace:
Abi o, it is all in search of a better life. I've missed reading from you guys' posts. Come to think of it, I even missed David's hypocrisy. What of Bindex, Chrisbenogor and Dios/Martian?

I don't know where chris and dios are but i am always in touch with bindex. . . . . . .

does anyone else have a problem with a god having a "chosen people"?  i think most people would claim that it would be immoral for a parent to show favoritism toward one of his children over the others.but that is exactly what the biblegod does  and not only does he order his preferred children to kick his other children out of their lands for no reason at all he also orders them to exterminate many of their brothers and sisters in the process.

If god decided to show favoritism to his "chosen people" and give them all the land(he sometime fail in delivering on his promise), why did he have to kill others to achieve his purpose?  he could have magically relocated the hebrew population to another portion of the earth and ensured that the geography would make it a land flowing with milk and honey by performing any act of divine intervention he chose or he could have magically transported the people of the nations that he drove from their lands to another location on the planet.  with no bloodshed required at all, why all the bloodshed all because of land that the biblegod decided to give out to his "chosen people".

What is the garden of eden? hebrew mythology or what?

duduspace:
Thanks Mazaje, I have taken some time off my studies to relocate to the UK on a Tier 1 General Migrant visa so I've been quite busy for a while. I'm in Scotland at present but I'm likely to move down south soon.

Nice to know that you are doing good, I travelled around a bit myself but am now back in Helsinki.

duduspace:
@Davidylan

Where, when and how in your bible is a pre-adamite race mentioned? please indulge me and quote the relevant passage (literally I mean and without any of your so called spiritual connotations) and pray, why would God have to recreate what already existed again? for example why would God recreate 10,000 years ago crustaceans which existed over 500 million years ago? a case of itchy fingers?

Duduspace no be small thing nice one. . . . .how do you expect him to explain that without any spritual connotations? the bible completely does not make sense. you need to have the power of the delusional holy ghost to be able to understand what it says. . . . .  

davidylan:
chei mazaje, i was just about to invite you over to our stimulating discussion on evolution. Too bad you dont believe in it . . .

There are indeed christians who have been brainwashed into believing in evolution, i dont blame them. We were taught all these nonsense in high school only to find out later that there was absolutely no evidence for all that rubbish diagrams they forced us to reproduce during exams

And what evidence do you have to show for the two different creation accounts that are in genesis 1 and 2?

manmustwac:
Mazaje welcome back to Nairaland i thought u had gone for good. I missed u and i really enjoy reading your posts.

Hey bro whats up been out for a while, did a lot of travelling and what not but am now back in Finland.

davidylan:
Lets say i dont believe in Genesis AT ALL . . . pls convince me to follow the gospel of evolution.

thank you. I await your learned responses oh "gods".

There are christians that believe in evolution just as there are so many atheist that dont believe in the TOE(myself inclusive).

davidylan:
to the two hypocrites above me here . . . why dont you kindly return to the evolution thread and share your "wealth of material" with us? run out of gas so soon?

sorry i was responding to duduspace (which i have duly completed) not you.

Its much easier running your itchy fingers about Genesis.

@ duduspace whats up? long time how have you been doing?

origina9ja:
We tend to dislike things we do not know. If we are confronted with something we do not know and perceive it as a threat, our reactions can be quite hateful. This is why many people like you hate God. you only know that his righteousness gets in the way of you enjoying our sinful ways. We cannot keep enjoying our sins when His Truth makes it obvious that our sinful ways are corrupting us. We end up acting as brute beasts attempting to preserve our sinful pleasures (Jude 10,11, "But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves. Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, " ). We lash out at God's Truth when it brings us into the knowledge that our sinful ways will only result in death and destruction.

what are your god's truth? jesus said that he speaks in parables because he does not want people to understand incase they will all be forgiven(what ever his forgiveness means). so its clear that your god does not want every body to be forgiven hence he has no truth in the words that men wrote on his behalf.

Hi every body. . . Here is a very interesting lecture from a former pastor, fundamentalist christian and bible apologist. he explains how the gospels were written, edited and how they contradict each other. The gospels were not written by eye witness but were written long after the alleged death of jesus, they were originally written in greek by educated people, they could not have been written by any disciple of jesus because the disciples of jesus never spoke greek and they were illetrate according to the bible. enjoy. . . . .

[list]
[li]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cK3Ry_icJo [/li]
[li] 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUfSuninCn0 [/li]
[li]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6m07nmLe60  [/li]
[li]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkZnIJoY3ZY   [/li]
[li]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDjZK8SMBxE  [/li]
[li]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogG38VaSG3I  [/li]
[li]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YKMsJvBLag  [/li]
[li]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QSmdtgehQE  [/li]
[li]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWJdq7MysUk  [/li]
[li]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TffAToyojg&feature=related  [/li]

[/list]

fyneguy:
mazaje


See this other ''well acted out'' miracle


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpO-ZmlMH0A&feature=related

women give birth on a daily basis, i have been opportuned to witness such an event once, a friends wife give birth VERY easily (in a matter of seconds) in our presence as we were about to take her to the hospital (she was in labor for about 2-3 hours) the baby just dropped as she was about to stand up, she did'nt squeal or cry at all and she was a moslem. is this all your god can do or show?  men have done a million times better. if this is all what your god can do then all i have to say is that he needs to go and learn more. i can teach him some tricks if he wants.

this is going to be my last post on the nairaland religion section, Bleep all the gods (jesus, jehova, allah, kisna, buddah, pahlygon, etc) and the men that keep deluding and collecting peoples monies while promulgating such imaginary and impotent beings. to every body on the nairaland religious section have a blissful and prosperous new year filled with happiness and love. I am now a MILLIONAIRE($$$$$$$$$$$$$). i will be traveling the world beginning from febuary and i don't have time to be arguing about non existent and impotent beings. it really has been nice being here. Bleep all the gods once more am out. . . . . . . . . .

i dont support violence but these mudering muslims need to be tought a lesson.

hamas needs to be annhilated. . . . .

debosky:
The issue of the original poster is a lack of perspective and little/no understanding of God.

A 'good' God in the poster's understanding does not allow 'bad' things to happen. This is a fallacy.

When God described his creation as 'good' - it meant fit for purpose. Sin came in as a result man fell and things are no longer perfect. Even in the midst of these imperfections, God still intervenes when He chooses to, and according to divine principles and shows forth His Glory.

Furthermore, the Sovereign Nature of God means an explanation of each and every step is not necessary. Even if explained, the limited reasoning ability of man means complete comprehension cannot be achieved.

You do not require the absence of 'bad' things in order to prove that God is Good - His Goodness is an innate quality, it's like being a man, you don't have to reveal your genitals each time or produce children to prove you are a man.

The premises of the poster's reasoning are even flawed. God's design IS perfect, but was corrupted. It will be redeemed eventually, but the human mind struggles with this due to the concept of time. God is beyond and outside of time, so he is not limited by it nor defined by happenings within it.

this is god as defined by you to help you explain away things that seem contrary to what you believe.

God is beyond and outside of time, so he is not limited by it nor defined by happenings within it.

there is no such thing in the bible, this is god as defined by you so that you can use the above defination to better explain away things that seem contrtary to the nature of god as portrayed in the bible.

busybein:
ahhh no naw,mazaje stop being jealous naaa,its a brotherly kiss i gave to chris nothing more,d real kiss belongs to u


money for hand babe for bed,give me money first

i dont need your kisses which one be money for hand babe for bed. . . . . why are you cheating on mazaje the guy with the magic bulala? chris can never fire you like mazaje.

busybein:
hahahahahah chris chris,happy new year hon,long time no see,how body


d babe go cost some cash oo,how much r u ready to give out?

busybein what is this? why are you kissing chris? which kin wife be dis? take ya time ohh. mazaje is a thug ohhh.

bindex:
@ Lady how does writing to different audience explain this contrary and formal contradictions?

Mark 15:25, It was nine o'clock in the morning when they crucified him.

John 19:13-14, When Pilate heard these words, he brought Jesus outside, Now it was the day of Preparation for the Passover; and it was about noon. (When Jesus was about to be crucified).

9:00 a.m. -- “It was the third hour when they crucified him.” mark (15:25)

12:00 p.m. -- Jesus was not crucified until after the sixth hour! john(19:14-15)

writing to different people ensured this contrary reports abi? lady. . . . . . . .

bindex:
Busybein baby whats up? come make wild and hot love to me

bindex kai dan iska ne ko? how dare say such a thing? wild and hot love. zan yan yan ka ka fa? ka yi a hankali.