₦airaland Forum

If there is ever a stronger reason why i never hesitate to label most "athiests" here as hypocrites . . . there you have it in clear bold letters. There are more muslims than christians on earth, with the exception of the Vatican NO OTHER NATION on earth regards itself as exclusively a christian theocracy . . . on the other hand there are a multitude of Islamic republics . . . YET 98% of the venom from athiests who believe God (in whatever form or so they claim) does not exist is reserved exclusively for christianity . . . WHY?

Becaue most of your so called resident athiest were former christains who have read and studied the bible.i believe most of your so called resident athiest were never moslems. the only god they were exposed to was the god of the bible. i know nothing about hinduism, budahism etc in fact i have meet only three buddist all my life. 98% percent of venom you claim? or is that what really comes from athiest ? why do you choose to label it as venom? I have attacked islam so many times but the problem with moslems as you know is that once you post a thread on the islamic section you either get banned or no body will respond to you on the grounds that islam prohibits them from engaging in discussions where allah and his prophet are being ridiculed (questioning the existance of allah falls into such) and hence no one will like to engage you in any kind of such discussions. if moslems were as engaing as christains i bet there would be more than enough materials from your so called resident athiest against islam, but the fact that they don't engage as much as the christains based on the reasons i outlined is the only reason athiest don't attack them. no body wants to get banned or have his post left unattened to.

Mormons, Sango worshippers, buddhists, sikhs . . . all believe in some form of "god", an afterlife exclusive to adherents of the faith, a form of everlasting punishment for outsiders and some form of holy script . . . YET 99% of athiests are obsessed with the bible, heaven, hell, the 10 commandments . . . wHY?

as i aforementioned christianity is the only religion most of your so called resident athiest know very well because most were raised into the religion. besides its easier to get a copy of the bible and read while its harder to get a copy of the koran, some muslims even consider a non muslim handling the koran as a sacrilage. even when you lay your hands on the koran how can you read it? most of the versions are in arabic so most people discard it simply on that grounds alone. i have seen only two english translations of the koran all my life despite being a former muslim myself. 99% of the athiest you(davidylan) know are obsessed with the bible is what you are supposed to say not 99 percent of the athiest in the world, by the way how many athiest do you know? there are over a billion athiest and agnostics in the world so how many do you know? i have a female athiest friend who used to be a moslem and the only religion she attacks is islam because that is the only religion she knows and was very well exposed to, she hardly attacks christianity because the only knowledge of christianity she has is the one the koran and her imams thaught her, and there are millons like her the world over,  do you watch arabic television chanells? if you do you will understand what i am talking about because they sometimes invite arabic athiest(former muslims) and islamic scholars to debate issues on air so stop generalizing.

Sugar attracts multitudes of insects, an equal quantity of salt does not . . . WHY?

What is it about christianity, Jesus Christ and the bible that muslims, athiests, agnostics ALWAYS want to read about? What is it about the christian idea of heaven that is so different from that of the sikhs, buddhists or muslims that the athiest is so desperate to prove does not exist?

Could it be that despite all the public posturing, somehow the conscience of man knows the truth even though he may deny it?

WHY are there 10,000 theories struggling to explain away the life of Christ and NONE exists for the life of mohammad?

The choice my dears is yours.

because christains are the only people that are still travelling the world over evangelising and trying to win 'souls' for christ by building schools, hospitals etc in other to win the minds and souls of the people they are trying to convert. hindus and moslems don't travel and evangelize hence people don't pay much attention to them as they do with christains. islam only supports and promotes the sustence and survival of the moslem umma, unlike christains that keep travelling from place to place to preach to the unbelievers. christains are still the ones that preach in buses and in market places. _{even though i don see say moslems too don start these days for naija} . moslems, hindus, jews, buddist etc just hold unto their own and don't go around knocking on doors every weekend sharing bibles, tracts and other materials that propagates their faith like the christains do. if they did they will recieve as much attention as the christains.

moslems are always trying to engage christains and jews because their religions were mentioned by name in the koran and it amuses them that christains are still practising and engaging in things that allah has denounced in the koran, they are always trying to understand the reason christians are still practsing and holding unto their faiths. muslims believe they worship the same god as christains so they get angry when christains say that allah has a son. they get furious when christains compare isa(jesus) to allah. they find it propesterous that people believe in such things that allah has denounced for that reason they always look into the bible because allah in the koran told them that he sent the bible uncorrpted but christains decided to corrupt it, so moslems are always trying to discredit the bible by using the bible to show to the christains that they are going against the will of allah simply because they believe that allah is the god that is being talked about in the bible besides they believe he sent the bible to jesus. The reasons i outlined are the only reason moslems are obsessed with the bible. moslems don't waste their time arguing with hindus because the koran did not denouce hinduism by name and allah did not tell them thah he gave the hindus their holy book besides the fact that there is no link between the koran and the hindu holy book. so stop deluding your self into thinking people are attracked to christianity because there is something 'really' good and special about it. take away all the reasons i outlined above and no body will give a dam about christianity.

with regards to mohammed the founders of islam prepared their religion better than christains with little ambiguity, mohammed's life and deeds were monitored and better documented than that of jesus. even amongst the diciples of christ their  were dicrepancies with regards to their versions and timing of events. this discrepancies gave room for questioning. but unlike the life of mohammed there we little or no discrepancies in the documentation of his life and deeds, if they were i believe they were all destroyed and the founders made sure that only one believable story was propagated unlike christianity that has so many loopholes.

davidylan:
people shld learn to search before posting. We've had a member called Horus here before telling us exactly the same thing so what's new? People without God seem to have an obsession with proving He doesnt exist . . . am i the only one who finds that strange.

christains too are always telling us that jesus is the only way to god and eternal life so we have to repent before we die else we end up in hell. why are they always disturbing us and trying to prove to us that god exist? if he truly does exist he will propagate his messages himself he wont tell people to do  it on his behalf. imagine since when i came back to naija about a week ago na so so jesus, jesus i just dey hear every day for tv, radio amd every where. even for early morning sef that bastard church wey dey my area if dey no allow me sleep today wallahi i go go cummut the loudspeaker hide am tommorow. every morning by 5am na so so preaching about hell, jesus and MONEY dey just dey do. before i think say na only moslems dey worry people for early morning for naija, now i just come back see say christains don dey  dey do all these things too. make wuna leave us make we rest joh. if god truly exist naija no for dey as e dey like this, dem just dey pray dey die, dey suffer like animals stupid fools. dem no know say na dem be dey god we dem dey pray to morning ,night and day. imagine just 2 years after the last time wey i visit naija i just come back see say religion don take over almost everything. mahaukata

monshege:
The mistake we make sometimes is using the things of the world to try to understand spiritual things or things about God. If i may even go further, i may say understanding the things of God is not for everyone just as i said that salvation is not for everyone.

In my opinion, it is good we start off not believing because the best believers are those who actually know what they believe in, you can't believe in something except you know about it and know what is it about that thing that makes you want to believe. so perhaps, you have chosen not to believe, because you don't truly know everything you want to/need to know about God or christianity. You may have chosen not to believe because of a fellow human being, because of what you see, hear or believe you know about God, but based on my belief (since it is aligned with your question), God is in charge of everything and that includes what you choose to believe or not

Believing is about God, God is all about the bible, and the bible says that no one can come to Christ or come to believe/repent except God draws him. In the same way, he shows mercy to whom he wants and hardens the heart of whom he chooses (O bu m dere?).. Based on that explanation, if your heart is hardened, it is because God allowed it

If i start explaining, you may not understand, but the beautiful thing about life is that we have been given wills; we have willpower where we chose to do what we decide or want to do. I believe in God, and as a beliver, i chose to believe in what has been laid out for me. You do not believe in God because you chose not to; you chose not to believe because you have the will not to, however you are not the boss of your own self (My take). the creator is the boss of you and even though you have the will, he still has greater authority on you and chooses to either allow you enforce your will or withstand it. You know how i know there is a higher power? because there are many things I cannot control (circumstances beyond my control is what we call it). If i knew everything about life or that needs to be known or had power over everything then yeah i will believe that there is no God, but since I know i am not the highest authority, i believe there is an authority over me to whom i respond to.

since what you are questioning are biblical sayings, i would use the bible to explain the bible; human beings are likened to clay and God is likened to the potter, the potter chooses to mold the clay into what he wants. I don't know if you played with clay as a kid but when you get the clay and mold it, you hardly ever end up taking whatever you made into your house. you mold the clay into some sort of animal or pot/cup and at the end of the day, you dismantle it (I did). we do that because we have control over the clay, in the same manner, God has control over us; he chooses to do with us as he wills. you might say as i have heard a lot of people say "that is wicked, that is unfair, why, why, why, " but that reasoning was also explained in the bible "and what if God desiring to display his wrath and to make his power known, endured with much patience objects of wrath ready for destruction? and what if, he did this to make known the riches of his glory on objects of mercy that he prepared beforehand". He does these things to display his power and glory because we are bunch of unbelievers;he's probably thinking, if the only way they would understand is through destruction, then so be it, i will endure the people that would be lost but by these people dying, people will come to believe (My take).
Pharoah: Pharoah is a biblical example, and based on the biblical explanation for that incident, God hardened the heart of Pharoah to display his power and so that his name will be proclaimed in all the earth. at least today, wherever the story of pharoah and the Isrealites are told, the name of God is brought into it, hence his purpose has been achieved.

i believe in God and not in religion, i believe in having a relationship with God but not in religion, I believe in wanting to know more but not in religion

Okija_juju, O bu m dere?

chie no be small thing ohhh. every body with him own explanation. all i know is that if there is a god he would'nt need men like you to explain his positions on his behalf , he would do it himself.

monshege:
@ poster:- As many have said; “pray for your friend”.

I do not like arguements, especially when it has to do with God or things about God. As human beings, we tend to get angry or impatient when a friend or someone we care about doesn’t believe in God but we forget that it is not about us but about God. When we force God or our belief on the person, we are making it about us; hence we tend to take the glory that would have been given to God. Be warned though, that by praying for your friend, it doesn’t mean he would automatically come to believe in God immediately, it can only come at the timing of God.

Don’t forget that it is actually God that orchestrates the repentance of man and those that come to him (Romans 8:29-30). Personally, I would say that salvation is not for everybody; It is only those God has called that would believe and repent. John 6:44 says no one can come to Christ or come to believe and repent except God actually draws him/her. He shows mercy to whom he wills, and he hardens whom he wills; at one point, Saul did not believe in Christ, until God decided to show mercy on him; he revealed himself to him, changed his heart of stone, called him to repentance and sent him on an assignment.

When Pharaoh refused to believe in God, it was God that planned it; for the scripture tells pharaoh “for this reason, I raised you up: so that I may display my power in you, and that my name may be proclaimed in all the earth. (Romans 9:16)

You might preach all you can to your friend, argue with him till day break, but unless it’s the will of God and timing for God, he will still have a hardened heart, so pray that God shows mercy on him by revealing himself to him, and pray too for yourself for strength/will power to stand in the face of his criticisms and arguments.

Finally, be careful that he does not take you captive through philosophy and empty deceit based on human reasoning, based on science or elemental forces of the world and not based on Christ (Col. 2:8a/b). If you believe, you believe, pray he doesn’t sway you from your faith and pray for him too.

Pray, pray and pray again, when you are done praying, get down on your knees and pray some more.

you sef which church you dey go?  and your point is no wonder there are over 30,000 sects(religions) in christianity each knocking heads and fighting with each other and postulating that their sects alone knows the ultimate truth. the fact still remains that any body can chery pick what ever makes sense to him from the bible and say that its the holy spirit that told him. there is no answer in the bible if there is they would''nt be over 30,000(religions) sects in christianity. so many of the sects even have nothing in common with each other. but they all draw their inspirations from the bible and each are quick to quote and defend their beliefs with valid and coherent points and passages from the bible, their is simple no answer even in the bible cos if there were, there would''nt be over 30, 000 sects most of which have nothing in common with each other. apologist will forever be explaining while copy and pasting from the bible but that has resulted into nothing and the division keeps occuring on a daily basis.

The Greatest Story Ever Told

I gotta tell you the truth folks, I gotta tell you the truth.
When it comes to bullshit, big time major league bullshit,
You have to stand in awe of the all time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims. . . RELIGION!!!


Think about it, religion has actually convinced people, there’s an invisible man, living in the skies, who watches everything you do, every minute of everyday and this invisible man has a list of ten things he does not want you to do.

And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place full of fire and smoke and burning and Torture and anguish where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream & cry forever and ever till the end of time. . . . BUT HE LOVES YOU!!

He loves you
He loves you
He loves you

And he needs money. He always needs money. He is all powerful, all perfect, all knowing, all wise but somehow. . . HE JUST CAN’T HANDLE MONEY.

Religion takes in billions of dollars
They pay no taxes
And they always need a little more
Now talk about your good bullshit story

HOLY SHIT!!


Watch the "Truth" about The Greatest Story Ever Told

Na today? abegiee. we all know that religion is a farce. next!

This passage implies that as a christian Long life, security, protection, favour, and a whole lotta good stuffs awaits all those who believe in God. So why are christians suffering the same fate as non-believers??

No matter how much we try to argue this whole issue, the truth is that you have got nothing other than the fear of eternity. So while you are so busy thinking about eternity (which you are not certain of its existence), the life which you already have is gradually passing you by. You get to miss out on the good things this life has to offer. While you are at a Night Vigil screaming and talking to nobody (and I wonder if that is not a form of insanity   ) , responsible people busy sleeping getting a good nights rest and waitinfg to face the next days challanges.

I remember hearing a group of students praying for God to postpone the date of our semester exams back then, I was so high that day that I laughed my head off in front of them disrupting their prayers.

think you have it twisted. This is not a christians versus atheist thing.

Now what if you die and find out that the muslims were right and you were wrong?? (Hmm!! I smell, alot of christian Khebab coming hell) 
Or what if you die and find out that the jehovah's witnesses were the true worshippers?? (Hope you took a sunblock along because you'll be getting more than just a tan in hell)
Or Okija juju was the real deal??   (You lose, I win. again) culled from the movie "SHOOTER"

What we are trying to get across here is that, You are not certain of anything in your religion. You and the moslems, buddists, Eckkists, cherubim & Seraphims, the momons, e.t.c all operate under the same principle; FAITH. You believe in the existence of a higher being. You are so fascinated by your own existence that you need an explanation other than reproduction for your existence.
But it gets even scarier, you are brain washed into believing that your religion is the only trith that you tend to look down on anyone who dosent share in your dellusions.

So if you have nothing other than faith to back up your religion, then you have nothing. I you believe in the existence of God, then surely you must believe in Santa Clause, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy and elves.   Hey its called faith (they are just as real as your god) .

I woul'nt have said it any better. i keep asking the christains to prove to me that allah is not god and why people should not believe in him but all they do is paste some verses from the bible, muslims can do that too. i want to know why christianity is wrong and islam right or vice versa. what happens if all the christians die and discover that allah is the one that rules? nonsense.

james1:
Hello.
You definitely are entitle to your opinion.
It is true that there are mistakes in some versions of the bible.there however are many that have remained well preserved!
Let's not forget in a hurry that king James of blessed memory ordered the bible translated to his own understanding.
Some version of king James bible clearly stated this in many of their earlier copies.these mistakes where NOT,FROM GOD.they are from overzealous men.
Now to the Quran: i am opportune to have read the bible and quran.have you read the hadith?some of the most intact and comprehensive writing about prophet Mohammed and the quran.advise you find in the these books will send to "shockland" and keep you there for some time.
Prophet Mohammed's(peace be upon him) first wife,Khadija was a catholic,fact.
He killed forty co-traders of his to start his mission,fact.
He ordered that his tongue be cut out; a follower of his who went to war with him and plundered goods belonging to the enemy and dared inquire why the prophet who is sopposed to be a servant of the most high was being so methodical with the sharing of the plunder.fact.
At his death,his youngest wife was 12years old.fact.
He fume's in the mouth and is thought to be epileptic,during his seizures,that is when he says words that are written on trees,leafs that where put to a book after his death.fact.
They waited till he died before they comprise the quran,fact.
He ordered that unbelievers be hung till they die,fact.
There are many more,so no religion is a 100% okay.
Some books to read:the quran,the bible.who is this Allah.by G.J.O Moshay. the satanic verses.by Salman Rushdie.
The ayatollah in Iran the offered a million dollars for his neck because of this book!
I still go to the mosque and church and i don't care a f**ck what you think about my religious life.
JUST KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT RELIGION AND RUN YOUR OWN RACE.
James say so.

Are you talking about violence? there are about the same kinds of violence in the bible as there are in the koran, god in the bible ordered people to kill, maim and loot to the glory and honour of his name so what are you talking about?

manmustwac:
@post
There is no problem with the Atheist. Its just that the Atheist believes in the theory of evolution which in this modern world is a far more logical explanation to the origins of mankind and all the animal species. The problem with the Christiann is that ultimately their religion is just based on their strong belief and strong faith

The book that they believe in called the bible dose not explain the origins of dinosaurs or the apeman simply because they didn't have the technology then that we have now to discover them. Whenever you try to make these simple points known to any Christian they will just start quoting from their book and cling on rigidly to their believe There is no amount of quoting from their bible that can explain away the dinosaurs or the apeman. But then thers nothing i can say that will change the mind of the Christian and like wise there is nothing they can say that will change the mind of th Atheist. So i let me just say to the post. You stick to your beliefs and you let me stick to mine.

well said, shikenan magana ta mutu.

[quote author=$$Rhino link=topic=1170.msg2657896#msg2657896 date=1218744513]I wont call it life, but will call it judgement, either into hell or to heaven.[/quote]what is hell and what is heaven? infact where are they situated? who will judge people when they die? is it allah, buddah, jehova, skinvirka etc? who? why is it that heaven is the only place where people must have to die before they visit?by the way which of the heavens are we talking about? all religions have their heavens, which of the heaven is real and which is false? because they(various religions) all promise different things to their various adherents, why should we believe in the islamic heaven and discard the christain heaven? have you been to bujal arab in dubai? that is heaven, if you have been to dafur or some parts of ethopia and kenya that i saw on televison recently then you will know that you have really visited hell. all the other depictions are pure imaginations and wishful thinking. i have seen both moslems and christains who cliamed to have been to heaven. they can't all be true and as far as am concered they are all false.

[quote author=m_nwankwo link=topic=159225.msg2657264#msg2657264 date=1218733890]What do you mean by people? If you mean our biological bodies, then, they did not spring up from no where. The fertilization of an egg by sperm set off the process that results in our bodies. Do you have evidence, even anectodes of how God originated? I am referrring to God, the creator of the unverse. God is God.[/quote]I have already told you what i consider to be god. god is god? are you kidding me? allah is god too, he has his own creation story which is very different from that of the god of the bible. so why should allah and his creation story be discarded? you still have'nt proven to me that allah is not god. and god is not god because there are so many of them all claiming to be the one true god. they can't all be right and as far as i know they all don't exist. god is a personal experience, moslems, christains,hindus,buddist , shinto etc all have personal experience about their gods and all their experiences are as real as it can be. who is right and who is wrong? why is jehova better than allah? and why should buddah be discarded?

I never knew south africa was this beautiful. make all this mumu nigerians dey there dey player hate.

Are these fool high on cow dung?

[quote author=m_nwankwo link=topic=159225.msg2657194#msg2657194 date=1218733088]I await for your answers. As far as I know science has description of gravity, energy, etc but not what it is or its origin. Thus it will be interesting to see the links you will provide. There is only one GOD,the creator . GOD has no origin nor is he created. What is created cannot be God.[/quote]says who. if god can spring up from no where uncreated then people can spring up from no where uncreated too. (does that sound reasonable to you?) i believe you are refering to the biblical god as the one true good right? ok i want you to prove to me that allah is not god?

Pastor AIO:
Just what qualities or attributes would you expect of God's plan?

what about the mantra i shall be the head and never the tail because i believe in christ? what about the a true child of god is not supposed to be poor that are commonly said in most nigerian chrches? where did they pastors get the inspiration to spew such jargons? is it not the bible?

[quote author=m_nwankwo link=topic=159225.msg2656846#msg2656846 date=1218729738]What is the origin of the laws of nature? How did the laws of nature came into existence? What is energy and what is the origin of energy?[/quote]I have'nt studied that yet but i believe that scientiest have provided answers to that. i will look it up and send down some links. what do you feel is the origin of god? who and what created him/her? by the way which of the gods am i refering to since there are so many of them.

Well said to all parties but I think the time has come for us to take a more systematic approach to this discourse.
quoteFirst I want to note that the only place you find christians united is when you try to question the existence of God and after that is over they just go ahead and tear at each other until they can form at least 30000. I[b] just posted in a thread about a pastor that drowned himself while trying to do baptism which is a very fundamental part of christianity and just there the catholics start going at the other denominations as to how it should be done.[/b]With your permission my friends with questions lets start from inside the religions and then move outwards towards the existence of the Supreme being and I hope you Christian brothers agree.
If every party agree maybe one side should take the initiative and start with a very very good foundation which for the christians and muslims which is do you christians and muslims agree that your holy books are AMBIGUOUS? 

Very good observations.

Hey 72 virgins a sham??
What then do you say about streets of Gold in christian heaven?? The more converts you get, [b]the more stars to your crown, right?? So your heaven still does not promise ann egalitarian society in the afterlife.[/b]Talk about sham.

Puhleeeze!!

All religions are shams

you can say that again, imagine the pot calling the kettle black. if heaven is real when then why must people die before they get there? . heaven and hell are the only places people have to die to visit. i repeat i have seen muslims and christains who have claimed to have been to heaven and all i know is that they are both wrong since they can not all be telling the truth.

all religions are a sham.

[quote author=Okija_juju link=topic=159562.msg2653959#msg2653959 date=1218680451]Crase man, if you like no hurry go collect your own!!
I hear say all these suicide bombers don dey carry all the babes o!![/quote]chie where davidylan dey abeg make i go embrace am with my bag of explosives, him don desecrate the prophet mohammed and allah so many times on nairaland. i really want those virgins ohh. davidylan where you dey abeg i want those 72 virgins.

davidylan:
Can this man read at all? I asked him to read Gen 1:2 and give us his opinion he's busy reading Jer 4:19 . . . verse 19 does not carry to verses 23-27 thou hypocrite . . . that they happen to appear in the same chapter nothwithstanding.

I thought you were a bit smarter than the rest, ordinary english comprehension shld tell you Gen 1:2 and Jer 4: 23 ARE ALMOST THE SAME WORD FOR WORD!

You can't see a relation because YOU SIR ARE FIERCELY DETERMINED NOT TO. Carry on with your delusions.

look who is talking.

[quote author=Okija_juju link=topic=159562.msg2653946#msg2653946 date=1218680083]No Christian wan die but them wan go heaven!


Hypocrites[/quote]that christain heaven no go dey as exciting as the moslem one ohhhh, na so so worshiping and praising god dem go just dey do there no shagging and drinking of booze, chie wallai na the moslem one me wan go ohhh. chie those 72 virgins.

davidylan:
which sounds reasonable to you? the notion that you can fly to heaven while eating eba?

where  and what is heaven? and why must you die before you go there? every religion has its own heaven. the moslem heaven will be extreamly lovely ohhh because there will be so many beautiful and sexy virgins besides the rivers that will be flowing with booze chie. i go like dey there ohhh.

davidylan:
there are blessings of course but the notion that those blessings must by force be in monetary terms is bogus.

did the poster talk about money? he gave a litany of things and he did' nt only underscore the importance of money.

[quote author=Okija_juju link=topic=159856.msg2653630#msg2653630 date=1218670601]Malachi 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.[/quote]what is the bible saying here? what blessings? is it children? marital happiness? jobs, good health? every body has those things both bible believes and non believers alike so what blessing is the bible referring to here. abi na heavenly blessings after of course believers must have died.

manmustwac:
@post
what guarantee is there that when we die we are destined for heaven when it cannot be proved that heaven actually exists? The whole notion that you must die before you can go to heaven sounds absurd to me.

you can say that again. why is it that heaven is the only place that people have to die before they go to? _{i have read about and seen moslems and christains on tv who have claimed to have been to heaven anyway} but the truth is that they can't all be saying the truth. and as far as i know they are all lying

davidylan:
It has EVERYTHING to do with the issue you raised about sects but like i always like to buttress, your blind areligious dogma prevents you from seeing it.

Let me break it down since i now realise i am speaking to people who are slow to understand . . . no where in the bible do we see Christ or His disciples or any of their converts talking about sects. This is the way the early apostles saw themselves . . . Acts 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

Romans 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

the emphasis all throughout the early christian church was "many members YET one body in Christ Jesus".

I quoted the rebuke of Paul to the brethren who tried to claim followership of one apostle or the other (the bane of our "sects" today) . . . here is what he told them in plain language again - 1 Corinthians 3: 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. 8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. 9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

Again i remember telling you in the last post . . . John 3:16 said nothing about which sects would go to heaven, rather it made it plain that salvation was no longer a corporate blessing but an INDIVIDUAL CHOICE regardless of which "sect" you claim to belong . . .

it says in plain language again - "whosoever believeth . . .".

Now that aside . . . what is the criteria for determining who (regardless of sect) will make heaven or not? the bible again is clear as day - Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Note that it doesnt say by their church or by their pastor . . .

What are those fruits? Look into your bible . . . that'w why we argue night and day . . . enough with judging ourselves by the doctrines of man . . . rather we shld do as the apostles said - Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

simple . . . if you still don't understand . . . too bad.

All you did here is just copy and paste passages from a book full of vagueness which i do not believe in to try to prove a point to me. any body can do what you have done here. muslims too can draw up as many verses from the quran too to buttress their postulations, that does'nt make it right to me. religious arguments are like two people talking to each other in two different languages. trying to make you see things my way is something i know i can never do so why am i trying anyway  . I must admit that some of your answers are reasonable and coherent enough,  you have made me understand where you are coming, its mostly about faith. but i am yet to be swayed and convinced to reason and see things the same way as you. sai anjuma.

huxley:
Ok, I have no problem being spoonfed as long as we get to the facts. I am after facts no status and ego. Can you draw the two threads together? I cannot see how these relate to a pre-Adamite world.

he is going to draw from the vagueness of the passage, states his own understanding and interpretation and tell you that , that was what god meant to say in the passage.

davidylan:
Everyone can make claims . . . the bible remains the yardstick . . . the bible talks of Christ preparing for Himself a body . . . without spot or wrinkle . . . nothing about sects.

John 3:16 says . . . "WHOSOEVER believeth" . . . nothing about sects.

In the early days there was nothing like St. Paul's Redeemers church of Antioch or James's Cathedral . . . infact when the early brethren began bickering among themselves who was the follower of whom, brother Paul sharply rebuked them saying . . . 1 corinthians 3: 4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. 8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. 9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

Chikena!

NB: to the hypocrites who like to yell "answer me answer me" . . . i can only hope for a day we shall recieve answers from you too . . . not anytime soon at this rate.

what has this got to do with the fact that there are over 30,000 sects(religions) in christianity? i repeat does the faith which you hold see catholics, jehova witness, mormoms, seven day adventist etc going to heaven? i have seen you argue night and day with the catholics, and prosperity gospel christains here on nairaland. at the same time denoucing and ridiculing their beliefs. why are you then trying to correct them and show them the way/truth if you all believe in the same thing? or do you mean they havent read the passage you copy and pasted?

davidylan:
This one is the worst . . . just piggy backing on the deluded opinions of the other clowns.

how is it the worst? are there no over 30,000 sects(religions) in christainity. are catholics , jehova witness, mormons etc going to heaven according to the version of christianity you believe in? answer it and stop beating around the bush.

Le Moor:
Davidlylan,

Evolution
Most people refusal to believe in the concept of evolution comes from a subconcious presumption that humans are perfect, and that evolution ha sstopped. What if we havent stopped evolving? we are definitely getting smarter,

What seperates most hear from religios folks is, the acceptance that we don't know a lot of things and are willing to question them, as opposed to you who believe you have all the answers from a book that has a lot of holes. What is in genesis 1 and 2, spill it out and stop telling people to go read some verse. [b]We all know anyone can manufacture anything from ambiguity[/b]But ofcourse, I earlier called you dishonest, because, all through this discourse, I have not mentioned once what I believed, all I did mention was what I didnt believe and know not to be true

That is what the bible is all about thats why we have over 30,000 sects of christainity each knocking heads and most cliaming they have the answers to the ultimate truth while all the others are wrong.(i wonder which truth they are all claiming to posses). my former pastor once said that catholics, and all white garment wearing chrisatains will all rot in hell . imagine

davidylan:
its not too late, buy a turban, its cheap.

i will buy one and come after you because you have desecrated the name of allah and his prohet mohammed so many times on nairaland. i will come tied around with my explosives, embrace you and detonate my devices, when am done i shall be with the virgins why you rot in hell.

[quote author=Okija_juju link=topic=159562.msg2653361#msg2653361 date=1218665300]@ Topic

How can anyone be sure they are going to heaven?? Hmm!! The truth is that they have absolutely no idea what heaven is. Is it beyond te sky, another world like earth with cars, houses, streets of gold and all worthy not?? Will there be poor men and rich men?? Who will be boss and who will be gatemen??

Heaven is just a religious joke, a fantasy that we all wish for, the much elusive utopia that is desired by everyone.

What happens if you die and discover that there is no heaven?? What if the theory of reincarnation is true?? What if death is the last point?? What if allah is for real and the muslims all get 72 virgins?? What if you reincarnate and co e back as an animal??
WHO KNOWS?? I guess y'all should just keep going with faith?? Hope that what you are doing is right and true.


I might prolly come back as a deity.[/quote]i have never given that much thought. it will be soo bad cos i will be left out just because i do not believe that mohammed is the prophet of allah

in the koran it is written that god cearted the world giving commands in arabic. why didnt god speak my native language while giving out the creation orders?