₦airaland Forum

vikiviko:
" The difference between God and Allah "
I think it is the time to know the difference between God and Allah.
Enlarge ImageAt the beginning, I feel a linguistic analysis of the origins and meanings of the two terms, God and Allah, would be most useful.

According to most dictionary references, the majority of words currently in use today trace their source back to Latin, Greek or Old, Middle; German, French or Spanish, along even with reference sometimes to Hebrew or Sanskrit. Arabic is rarely referenced, which is another problem that needs to be tackled in a separate article.

Attempting to find the origin for the term, God proved to be quite fruitless as I perused all major English dictionaries, old and new. I welcome anyone’s proofs to the contrary, and, until such time as any are brought forward, I invite all to read this answer, which is based on what I consider to be the supreme truth, found in the Arabic language. Taken as a given that the concept of the word God in most minds is that of strength and giving, fairness and capability, I offer the possibility that the root can be found in the Arabic term Jude, which root is jawada - which is this meaning exactly. A related term in English would be the word "good".

Let us now look at the Arabic word Allah - we can immediately recognize the English word "all", indeed we have herein one of the best characteristics of Allah’s attributes; The All-Knowing, All-Seeing, All-Hearing, All-Merciful etc. Every baby born anywhere in the world has, as his first utterance the short "a" sound. No new born ever cried out with an "s" or a "t" or a "d" or a "b" sound! All exclaim the "a" as an expression of the oneness of humanity, in relation to its Creator. Also, all final deathbed gasps exhale the "h", the last letter of the name of Allah. This is because He is the First and the Last! When we scream in pain or cry out in fear or grunt and groan during strenuous exercise or disgust, or exclaim in joy or surprise, it is the very same… "ahhh", and not the "g" of the word God that we all emit. This reality is intrinsic in our innermost selves, something out of our control!!

Why is this so, you may ask. It is because the word Allah refers to the concept of that which all turns to for refuge and repose. Without finding this state of rest and security, we are in a constant state of frustration and irritability. Our souls all yearn to reach the place of contentment, which can only be found by knowing Allah as He has revealed Himself to us, in the Qur’an.

Another interesting facet of the two related languages is the relation of the words "man" and "woman". The word "man" (mim, nun) in Arabic is the personal pronoun for the human being, as in the English word "man". Both languages use the term also in the sense of "whom". Therefore, the usage of the term "man" is nearly identical in both languages!

The word "wa" in Arabic means "and". In English the word "woman" could be seen to be derived from the concept of a partner to the man. Therefore, the woman or "waman" as it might be more correctly rendered, can be construed as meaning "and-man" or "together with man", the couple which forms the very essence of the human race… The reason why I referred to the letter "o" as an incorrect rendering in the English word woman is my idea that "o’s" and short "e’s" are extraneous additions to the correct pronunciations, found in the Qur’an. As these sounds were not originally revealed by Allah. The Qur’an is the only revelation, which has remained intact. Both the original Torah and Bible are non-extant and therefore, not open to analysis of their original linguistic aspects. The assumptions put forward regarding the Sumerian, Akkadian, Chaldean, Syriac, Aramaic and Hebrew roots, do not readily admit to these, being derived from the mother Arabic for obvious reasons.

Here, I shall offer a very plausible argument for my suggestion that Arabic is the true language of humanity, based on some concrete examples, with which we can form illuminating comparisons.

If Allah, the Eternal Unchanging Truth, chose to call Himself Allah… is it meet and proper for any created being to change His name? Do any of us have the power to move an atom in the universe without Allah’s first moving it and giving us the ability to be used, as His instruments?

Consider the usage in Hebrew of the word "Elohim". Elohim stands for the concept of the Supreme Being, along with His attributes. We Muslims say Allahumma for Allah and His attributes, or names and characteristics. Those who went astray, after they knew the truth from bani Isra’il is known in Arabic as "yahud". They were not content with the limitations of Allah in any fashion, and were always adding or deleting to that which Allah had ordained. Similarly, they do the same behavior today, with genetic engineering, euthanasia and cryonics etc., forever exceeding the limits of Allah, even in regards to life and death!

The word "Elohim" (plural of "eloha" - the powerful) was invented by them to resist the Almighty. "A" - The first letter of Allah’s name, was changed to "E" and the second was changed to "o". There are portions in the Pentateuch, which refer to Elohim and others, which refer to Yahweh and was changed to Jehovah only in the 14th century. It is read in Greek as Adonis and in Latin as Dominus.

Yet, Allah the Almighty, who is the "all in all" - does not ever change and thusly it would stand to reason, neither would His name. It is now and forever, as it was revealed in the Qur’an - ALLAH. And furthermore, I venture to claim that if the original Torah and Bible were extant for us to examine, we would find the word Allah there also. I wish to remind all sincere Christians, correctly following Jesus - who never called himself God - of the very first two of the Ten Commandments.

• I am the lord thy god, thou shall not have false gods before me.
• Thou shall not take the name of the lord thy god in vain.

Allah warns those who divide Him, as the sole to be worshipped and His total sovereignty over all His Creation (known in Arabic as tawhid al-uluhiyya and rububiyya) He also cautions against tampering with His very name. Would you not then glean from these two first commandments that those who prefer the "E" should be careful of taking the Holy Name in vain?

It is the One and Only we worship, Allah as He called himself… nothing is comparable to Him, never begot and was never begotten… Light of heavens and earth. The Transcendental, Who would not be incarnated, the All-mighty and All-compassionate.

"Need your comments and your evaluation"

Yisraylite:
@ mazaje

You peverted man fucker, you must  be a peeping Tom ,you fucking self-servicer, I'll rather get at lots of pussy than be a  brainless lesbian Bitch like you and your bitch ass father ,

Oh ! by the way,I did not write the Book of the Law you daft slowpoke !, it's quite  typical for you guttless Christains to attack the messenger instead of the message, however, I am  suprised that an slowpoke such as you can even copy and paste.

I ain't no nice christian you fucking retard !! And I don't turn the cheek. If you step on this Lion's tail, I'll freakin chew your head off little girly man,  I'll take your shrunken head of your body like King Dawad did to Goliath of Garth.

I bet you're also waiting to take Christ's privates in your ass fucking gay. Oh I forgot your Christ too was a  batty man  with no wife or offsprings !!

Now tuck your tail between your legs and go report me to your child molesting pastor or priest    lol!! Now go spread your butt cheeks for Christ since he is your husband and bridegroom 


I can bring this pain any way you want it fool letting a white man mess you in your African ass, you dumb Ass

This is what Abba YAHWAH says

Eze 3:8 Behold, I have made your face strong against their faces, and your forehead strong against their foreheads. 

Eze 3:9 Like adamant stone, harder than flint, I have made your forehead; do not be afraid of them, nor be dismayed at their looks, though they [are] a rebellious house."


Yisraylite 

olabowale:
My dear sister, you know that if a person shares equal position with any person or persons, he can not force any of these persons in the position of authority, as he to do what a subordinate person must do. He can not relegate any to a second authority position. If he can, it shows clearly that the person or persons relegatd is/are not really a coequal individual or group of individuals.

Now talking about Jesus, you can not accept the fact that Jesus is a coequal with God, and at the same time be forced by God to be crucified. If he is forced, then it shows that the coequal claim is just an empty claim. If he is forced, it shows that God is not equal to Jesus. If he is forced, it shows that God wanted him to be crucified by force, since it is said in the Bible that Jesus yelled, " My God, my God, why has thou forsakened me?"

Maybe God has a plan that Jesus has no knowledge about, since he was forced, even after all his prayers and petitions against it. We also can see that from the mouth of Jesus he said his own knowledge is limited, since he did not know the time of the hour.

My opinion is that God has a plan that God has no knowledge about, since cruxifixion is actually a condemnation and accursation of the soul of the crucified. God would not have allowed His elect to be accursed. Accursation is what is reserved for Satan, not any elect of God.

davidylan:
12 whole pages to prove that God does not exist? If indeed He doesnt why all the expended energy?

I put the word "prove" in highlights because invariably much of what is said here isnt actually proof, its simply belligerent, ignorant, false noise making all saying the same thing in so many words that they believe God does not exist.

One problem with the athiest - he is yet to give me scientific proof of how he came to life. The day a scientist creates life from scratch or as much as creates his own sand in the lab, i will personally burn my bible.

Gamine:
Why don't you die and tell us.

The bible clearly states a life after death.

Death is of the physical body

Gamine:
@Okija, i may not have the answers that you seek right now,

but if you choose to believe a sudden big bang gave you life

its your call.

@Manmust,

Exactly!, i would believe someone brought it in, which is God in case, when talking about the universe
not some magical random explosion, how can things go from chaos into form.

Evolution, just how come nothing seems to be evolving these days huh??
why did it suddenly stop?
if you came from monkeys, its your call, i did not.

The bible explains those dinosaurs, there was life on earth before man as we know him
and it was destroyed with water.
[b]2 Peter 3 Vs 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: [/b]
i lose nothing believing in God, Absolutely Nothing.

Yisraylite:
Yer 6:10 To whom shall I speak and give warning, That they may hear? Indeed their ear is uncircumcised, And they cannot give heed. Behold, the word of YAHAWAH is a reproach to them; They have no delight in it.

Zec 7:12 Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law, and the words which YAHAWAH of hosts hath sent in his spirit by the former prophets: therefore came a great wrath from YAHAWAH of hosts

Isa 30:9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear The Law of YAHAWAH

Hsa 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I also will reject you from being priest for Me; Because you have forgotten the law of your FATHER, I also will forget your children.

Hsa 8:12 I have written for him the great things of My Law, [But] they were considered a strange thing

davidylan:
you on the other hand have neither an assertion nor a fact.

what is obvious is your duplicity. You don't understand the bible . . . how then can the interpretation of Genesis be obvious to you?

1. i asked you several questions earlier, which one of them did you answer?

2. The term "replenish" was used TWICE in genesis and come from the same hebrew root word. Why do you think the one regarding Noah meant to "refill" while the one in Genesis 1 meant "fill"?

You don't even seem to know the issues, you merely stumble from point to point.

Note your first highlight - How can a word from the same language mean two very different things?

Its more obvious that you can't think or u're not properly educated . . . here is a simple example - the word Profess.

Profess - To affirm openly; declare or claim:
Profess - To make a pretense of; pretend:

Same word, same language, two polar meanings. Is anyone still in doubt mazaje is a walking example of illiteracy?

About your argument on "replenish" - it is the same root word used in these 2 instances - Genesis 1:28
“And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.”

Genesis 9:1
“And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.”

We know what happened prior to Gen 9:1 . . . nuff said.
 [ /quote]

I concede, but i said  what if i choose to use the word fill instead of refill? besides there are some bible versions that choose to use the word fill instead of replenish so what become of your argument now? fill and refill are not the same thing. those bibles that use the word fill have made your assertions to fall flat.

Noah and his family survived with animals and plants in the ark. Did you remember where Noah sent out a dove and it came back with a branch? Gen 8:6-12. An indication that at least ONE plant survived the flood . . .

Again, nuff said. more indication you don't read before bleating.

so?

Idiot, please read that verse again.

2 Peter 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

How can the entire world perish if 8 people, animals and plants still survived? Perhaps you need to go back to school afterall

kai your paza stop calling me an idiot i never called you one, na so the thing pain you reach?

stop joining word what peter was talking about is very different from the fallacy you are trying to promote, paste all the chapter and people will see what exactly he is talking about. stop picking, joining and lying to youself.

Sily excuse really . . .you're not forced to attend church neither are you pressed to give offering in church if your spirit doesnt agree with it . . . i actively practice this myself so why the lies as if we don't attend church too?

idiot, do a google search and read what other writers have to say on the issue of Jer 4. I posted from just one of such writers who CLEARLY gives biblical and rational evidence to back the fact that Jeremiah could not have been refering to Jerusalem in Jer 4. As usual you don't read, you merely blurt the first thing that rushes to your fingers since you MUST BY FORCE refute anything that in a way gives the bible some credibility.

Read the last post i made.

I used a very easy example . . . the name Iraq didnt exist 3000 years ago but alongside Israel, it appears more than most other nations in the bible as BABYLON.

Maybe you shld try reading before posting, it sometimes helps.

Is this provable or are u as usual making more hubris to cover your shame? How many times do you as a Nigerian make mention of Micronesia, Oceania, Abhkazia, Krygistan . . . ? Is it because you don't know they exist?

But wait . . . actual historical evidence indicates Apostle Thomas evangelized southern India . . .

What do you expect from a slowpoke

Is this provable or are u as usual making more hubris to cover your shame? How many times do you as a Nigerian make mention of Micronesia, Oceania, Abhkazia, Krygistan . . . ? Is it because you don't know they exist?

But wait . . . actual historical evidence indicates Apostle Thomas evangelized southern India . . .

What do you expect from a slowpoke

Probably because . . . thou slowpoke, the persians were pretty close to them in the middle east. Abraham came from your . . . an actual place in present day Iraq which if you know your geography well shares a border with the Iranians who actually arent arab but persians

To all the ignrant idiots here posting rubbish . . . i will copy and paste some detailed study on this same issue . . . i of course do not expect the lost to understand.

The Pre-Adamite Creation

Furthermore, according to Genesis 1:28, God commanded Adam and Eve to “replenish” the earth, a further indication that the earth previously was inhabited by a pre-Adamite civilization. Although Strong’s Hebrew-Greek Dictionary says that the Hebrew word for “replenish” can mean either “fill” or “refill,” it is the same word that was used by God when He commanded Noah to refill or replenish the earth in Genesis 9:1. On that basis, then, it is very possible that Genesis 1:28 also means “replenish” or “refill.”

My notes - Why did God tell Adam to REPLENISH the earth if it HAD NEVER been inhabited?

Jeremiah describes a time when the earth was “without form, and void,” or as we determined earlier in Genesis 1:2, “waste and empty.” But never since the creation of Adam and Eve has all of the earth been completely desolate and empty without any life whatsoever. Not even Noah’s world-wide flood destroyed all of the birds, people and vegetation throughout the earth as described in this passage. (Genesis 8:10-11, 17-19). Unlike the flood that completely destroyed Satan’s pre-Adamite Kingdom, Noah’s Flood did not last long enough to destroy all the plant life on earth, and Noah’s Ark provided a place of refuge for Noah and his family and some of the animals and birds. Therefore, the horrific, barren conditions described by Jeremiah must apply to the pre-Adamite creation, after its cataclysmic destruction by God, when absolutely everything was totally demolished without a trace left behind.

Sometimes it is said that this biblical scripture applies only to the city of Jerusalem even though it specifies in this passage, very explicitly, that all of the earth and all of the cities of earth are in its purview. But, never has Jerusalem suffered all of these things anywhere near the extent to that which is described in this scriptural passage. Contextually-speaking, Jeremiah simply warned the people of Judah about the devastating Divine judgment that was once unleashed upon the earth, and then compared it to the much lesser judgment that was poised to descend upon the land of Judah, including Jerusalem. That is why verse 27 in this passage of scripture makes the following statement: “For thus hath the Lord said,  yet will I not make a full end.”

My notes -

II Peter 3:5-7
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. (KJV)

Verse 5 - mentions "heavens were of old" and the earth standing out of water AND IN water . . . note Gen 1:2 speaks of the earth being ALL water before land was finally created in Gen 1:9.

Verse 6 talks of the world THAT THEN WAS "being overflowed with water, perished". Care must be taken to note that the flood of Noah DID NOT destroy the world as 8 people including the male and female of each animal survived so verse 6 must be talking of ANOTHER civilization that was destroyed BEING OVERFLOWED WITH WATER . . .

note again Gen 1:2 and Gen 1:9 clearly indicate the entire earth was covered with water.

My dear athiests can come back again to expose their ignorance

dear hypocrite, i ask repeatedly . . . why is IT OF UTMOST IMPORTANCE to you what i join to what to what? Have you read those verses and found out they are different and unrelated? What is YOUR OWN interpretation before making false allegations?

Does God exist? If He doesnt why are you tying yourself up in a knot over His book of fairy tales?

What an idiot, Jeremiah mentions Babylon (modern day Iraq) several times in his book, Egypt, Syria, Greece, Italy, Lebanon, modern day Jordan, Ethiopia . . . are all mentioned by several bible writers.

Of all the rest, you are the most ignorant of the athiests here.

Idiot, because many of those names didnt even exist 3000 years ago! There was NO name like Iran or Iraq 3000 years ago but they were known by their old names - Persia and Babylon . . .

The number of times i have had to call you out on your GLARING LIES here puts you out of the ranks of those we can refer to as "objective reader" (a term of course you use to denote a non-christian).

Chrisbenogor:
I have started the thread already I want you to watch what all other christians have to say as far as me I am concerned you cannot piece those things together simply because the date of the earth defies Genesis in the literal terms then you search frantically for somewhere in the bible and come up with a weird and very lame explanation of pre whatever existence.
In fact I am disappointed because I came to your level to play your game with your bible and one fact is glaring you just cannot deny that all we have today are religions that try to explain the unexplainable with crazy assertions I am sure somewhere in this world you might be able to build a large followership with that rubbish join join because human beings will always be desperate for hope which is what you guys hawk around.

Chrisbenogor:
David what are you saying can you see why atheism is growing at the rate of almost 700% every year! What can be more personal than the interpretation you just gave. Upon which verse and authority in the bible did you join those two verses please how are they connected better yet if there are any christians to corroborate this crazy assertion of yours please where are they. What you just did is why I will say people like you wrote the bible and raise all these doubts we have today chei my brother na wa for you how dumb can that explanation be. Besides what connection does the person who wrote jeremiah have with genesis in fact I will start another thread and see what christians have to say but on this issue I will scream foul play big time how long will you keep deceiving people.

davidylan:
Is there something you arent telling us young man? you're everywhere repeating the same thing like a broken record . . . if indeed heaven and hell don't exist why are breaking a jugular vein to announce it to us? Why are you bothered?

davidylan:
the problem you have is two-fold - your hypocrisy is one, next you deliberately want to force the assumption that the bible reads like your average novel i.e. page 2 must come before page 15.

The bible is not written in chronological sequence so sometimes verse 4 is not necessarily saying the same as verse 7 neither are the events they describe occuring at exactly the same periods.

Not just you, huxley did EXACTLY the same when i pointed out Gen 1:2 and Jer 4:23 to him . . . he immediately ran off tangent talking about Jer 4:19 . . . and then promptly disappeared.

don't bother "reading the whole of Jer 4", that is a silly attempt at a cop-out on your part . . . read verses 23-27, its just that simple unless of course you're not realistically in search of an answer to what you initially posed as a genuine question.

Gen 1:1-2 was not talking about the creation AT ALL . . . the creation did not start until verse 3 so what noise are you making?

Lets break it down a bit - Gen 1: 1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Which "begining"? the "begining" of time or the "begining" of the creation of man as we know it today? Verse 2 gives us a good clue - Gen 1: 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Take note of 2 important things:

-  the earth was without form, and void; - How could the earth be "without form and void" if it had NEVER had form or had NEVER been occupied before?

- darkness was upon the face of the deep - Hello, but a cursory look at Gen 1 reveals light was not created until verse 3 . . . how could the earth be dark if there had never been light at any point in time?

unfortunately the author of Genesis gives us no further insight into what really happened between the earth being without form and void and the begining of the creation - fast forward to Jer 4:23

23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

Only a hypocrite does not see the striking similarity (almost word for word) with Gen 1:2 . . . this, i repeat, is not a coincidence. Thankfully Jeremiah's vision contains much more than just that verse . . . 24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

Two important things to highlight in verse 24 - the presence of mountains and hills that Jeremiah saw in his vision. Backtrack to Gen 1: 9 . . . there was no dry land AT ALL as at that time so evidently there was once dry land (hence the presence of mountains and hills) prior to the earth being filled with water.

Look at verse 25 - Jeremiah's vision decries the absence of man and the birds of the heavens. Which men were these? whence came these birds and who chased them away? Note that birds were not created until Gen1:28 and man didnt come until Gen 2:7. So who were these people and animals that Jeremiah saw?

Jer 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

Aha . . . What happened to these once fruitful places and ALL the cities (note it didnt refer to just Jewish cities alone). Where did they go?

27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

The Lord decreed the WHOLE LAND shall be desolate YET will He not make a full end of it (i.e. he would not completely destroy the earth . . .  which would seem to suggest He had plans to repopulate the earth anew at some point.

28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black; because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

I posted this verse to debunk your earlier unfounded allegation that Jeremiah was only talking about the "coming destruction of Jerusalem". If this was so then why would the WHOLE EARTH MOURN? Is Jerusalem = the whole earth?

If this vision was simply about the destruction of Jerusalem why would the heavens be black including that over Egypt, syria, turkey, Italy and Greece? Where they all once part of "jerusalem"?

Next time you people shld read with some thinking caps rather than just looking for contradictions where there is none.

thank you.

why would the WHOLE EARTH MOURN? Is Jerusalem = the whole earth?[/b]

The bible is not written in chronological sequence so sometimes verse 4 is not necessarily saying the same as verse 7 neither are the events they describe occuring at exactly the same periods

If there is ever a stronger reason why i never hesitate to label most "athiests" here as hypocrites . . . there you have it in clear bold letters. There are more muslims than christians on earth, with the exception of the Vatican NO OTHER NATION on earth regards itself as exclusively a christian theocracy . . . on the other hand there are a multitude of Islamic republics . . . YET 98% of the venom from athiests who believe God (in whatever form or so they claim) does not exist is reserved exclusively for christianity . . . WHY?

Mormons, Sango worshippers, buddhists, sikhs . . . all believe in some form of "god", an afterlife exclusive to adherents of the faith, a form of everlasting punishment for outsiders and some form of holy script . . . YET 99% of athiests are obsessed with the bible, heaven, hell, the 10 commandments . . . wHY?

Sugar attracts multitudes of insects, an equal quantity of salt does not . . . WHY?

What is it about christianity, Jesus Christ and the bible that muslims, athiests, agnostics ALWAYS want to read about? What is it about the christian idea of heaven that is so different from that of the sikhs, buddhists or muslims that the athiest is so desperate to prove does not exist?

Could it be that despite all the public posturing, somehow the conscience of man knows the truth even though he may deny it?

WHY are there 10,000 theories struggling to explain away the life of Christ and NONE exists for the life of mohammad?

The choice my dears is yours.

What has this to do with the initial issue we were dealing with? i.e the pre-adamite era?

The problem with you hypocrites is simple - you don't really have a basis for your unbelief, you rather wander aimlessly without any concrete issue to raise. Start on one point, resolve it first before you fly off tangent talking about polar bears and noah's ark.

Lets ask the question this way . . . are you the one who tells your teacher what is appropriate for a test?

why didnt your teacher write your exam for you?

Now even you know that is a stupid analogy.

Compare the OPPOSITE account, that same loving God as portrayed in the bible gave Himself as the perfect sacrifice for sin.

the one thing i have noticed about you huxley and co is that you are not used to people taking apart the silly nonsense you people post here as "questions". You are rather used to demure "christians" who come here to beg you, bleat meekly about christianity being all about faith (without any reasoning) or threaten you with hell if you do not repent.

I do nothing of the sort, rather i choose to show you in quite plain language that you sir have no case.

Good . . . you're not the first person to use this escape route. If it had been the other fumbling christians indulging your silly pretence for questions you'd have been posting pages of pathetic tomfoolery.

madamkoko:
A christian is anyone who says they're a christian.

donnie:
One is included in the other. Heaven is a geographical location in the kingdom of God which has members in heaven and on earth. Those who believe therefore are citizens of heaven. Even though they live here on earth (physically), they also live in and function from the kingdom of God.
Isnt it marvelous that this same kingdom of God resides within every believer in Christ?
However, the extent to which he/she influences his/her world with what he/she has within is a function of revelation knowledge.
. . . Thy kingdom come oh Lord.

Being born to the Saudi royal family is no excuse . . . Nicodemus was a pharisee, Ruth was a Moabitess, Solomon was the son born in adultery . . . as long as you have heard the gospel unto salvation you have a choice . . . to accept it or reject it.

Lets ask the question this way . . . are you the one who tells your teacher what is appropriate for a test?

why didnt your teacher write your exam for you?

Now even you know that is a stupid analogy.

Compare the OPPOSITE account, that same loving God as portrayed in the bible gave Himself as the perfect sacrifice for sin.

the one thing i have noticed about you huxley and co is that you are not used to people taking apart the silly nonsense you people post here as "questions". You are rather used to demure "christians" who come here to beg you, bleat meekly about christianity being all about faith (without any reasoning) or threaten you with hell if you do not repent.

I do nothing of the sort, rather i choose to show you in quite plain language that you sir have no case.

Good . . . you're not the first person to use this escape route. If it had been the other fumbling christians indulging your silly pretence for questions you'd have been posting pages of pathetic tomfoolery.