₦airaland Forum

Bidam: We can use logic ofcos but not the foolish logic frosbel uses to argue clear cut scriptures that interprete scriptures.what the guy meant is that human wisdom which is natural,with devilish wisdom which is sensuous can't be used to interpret God's word.you need God's wisdom to interpret God's word and that is by coming to Christ the wisdom of GOD.

There is nothing like god's wisdom any where , if there was then christians will not be arguing over simple issues. . .VERY SINCERE christians here on nairaland disagree all the time over basic doctorines, pls tell if there is any such thing as the holy spirit or god's wisdom they will NEVER be arguing over anything. All they need to do is pray since they are already very sincere and the holy spirit will minister unto them both and tell them. . .When it comes to the bible EVERY body just self project himself as god and give people their own opinions that is ALL about it and that remains the FACT. . .Any other explanation is just false. . .

Interesting thread. . .This just shows how the religious mind works, people will see white and claim its blue. . .LOL @ tbaba and co. . .

misto: read kjv 1john 5:7, john1:1-10.
U cannot use logic to evaluate the one who created u. Frosbel wake up b4 its too late. Gods way is higher than ur ways and also his thought higher than ur thoughts. Allow the spirit of God to guide and stop being wise in your own ways which is foolishnes in Gods sight.

Will you guys stop peedling this nonsense?. . .How can you not use logic to understand god?. . .The same god in the bible said that "come let us reason together". . How can you reason with an entity whose ways and thoughts are different from yours?. . .You guys always run to this nonsense god ways are not ours mantra when you are in a fix and you want to explain absurdity away. . .Why read the bible at all if god ways are not yours and yoiu can't use reason or logic to undertand god. .No wonder you guys keep selling all your possessions and giving your hard earned money to the fraudulent pastors. . .

Logicboy03: Atheists creating a similar concept to religion/belief in god to fill the void of spirituality?

I think I have watched that film before! It's called delusional fears of Majaze



On a serious note, you have been making some religion PR comments lately....not angry, just worried

LB!!!. . .Na naija wey I dey cause am. . .LOL!. . . I was talking about conflicts specifically, people will always have something to fight about even if religion is gone. . .But a world without religion will be of less conflict than a world with religion in my opinion. . .

Logicboy03: Not really what? By your own comment, the world would be better- one less reason to fight.

Sometimes, I wonder if you have been paid 30 pieces of silver

LOL. . .You too dey vex. . .Sure there will be one less thing to fight about. . .But we don't know if humans will create something to replace it. . .

Not really, people will still fight over so many other things. . .One reason for conflict will be off, but humans will still find other reasons to fight against each other. . .

I remember reading at some point that the trinity concept was adopted by the roman church to accommodate the polytheistic regions of the expanding empire. It says they were trying to adapt Christianity to appeal to all the pagans within their territory. . . .Can't remember if it was the Aryan's they were trying to assimilate.

Mr anony: The question is:
how do you know that hydrogen exists in other stars? Have you been to them?
How do you know that animals have minds? have you detected their thoughts? if yes how did you detect them? Or are you merely assuming that animals function like a human society?
I hope you are seeing the problems with your counter-argument.

Nope, stars are made up of hydrogen and helium at their core, we have studied our star and many other stars are like ours so we can conclude that they also have hydrogen and helium. . .Other animals have brains, hence they have a mind. . .

How did you know that they were created by chance and not design? I thought you said we know design because we know that it is made by a human being. So if you didn't know at the time that it was made by a human being, how did you know it looked designed?

I made the statement because of my personal experience, I have seen where a dynamite was placed under a big rock(they wanted to break it and construct a road) and after the explosion one of the rock from the debris looked very much like a sword. . . We were so awed that one of the guys working on the site took the piece of rock that looked like sword home. This was just a chance explosion that formed something that looked designed. . .Even natural phenomenon like rain bow and mountain looked designed but they are just occurrences that result when mindless forces interact with each other. . .Just to make things clear, I do NOT believe that the universe came about as a result of chance, but I am also open to that possibility because people have failed to show that chance can not produce anything. . .

No I haven't I hope my comments above have showed you the problems with your position

Not so much. . .

Mr anony: This is really a very weak argument. We can stretch it further to say
"Apart from your mind, you do NOT know of anything else that can think......I know you will claim that other people can think but in reality that is only you projecting your mental activities on other people"
Or we can also say....
"Apart from the earth and the moon, you do not know that hydrogen exists anywhere else in the universe. You are only projecting the elements that you see on earth to other parts of the universe, hydrogen outside the earth is only a human conception".

You see, the problem with your counterargument is that it overlooks too much in it's desperate appeal to ignorance.

We know some of this things to be real and exist some where else, hydrogen for example exist in other stars, animals have minds etc any way i understand what you are driving at. . .In the case of god there is overwhelming evidence to show that god is a human creation and idea. . .

Lol, you might as well ask me to show you that triangles have 3 sides. What I showed you there is what chance is.

Chance has also created things that looked designed, no?. . .

Still attacking a strawman I see. How human society functions has nothing to do with my argument

It has a lot to do with our arguments and you have implied that in some of your statements here. . .

davidylan: and you know that for a "fact" because? I mean this is a long diatribe that is heavy on subjective opinion.

Because no god can be shown to exist on its own without human inputs. . .No god can be shown to exist without stories formed and created by humans, books written by humans, religions and cultures created by humans around that god idea they have created and on and on. . .If you know any god that exist outside human input pls point to it. . .God remains an idea created by humans simple. . .

davidylan: on what do you base this "knowledge"? Just because you have never experienced what he has experienced doesnt mean you know his reality to be exactly as you think it in your head.

On the fact that all gods are a creation of men. . .History and human anthropology have all shown this to be true. . .poly theist god to monotheistic god are all a creation of humans. . .God remains a human idea and conception. . .Can you see that you guys are the ones selling and defending that idea to us here. . .You really think that if the god as presented by the bible truly exist in reality, it will rely on you or any human to defend it or make its case for it?. . .

Image123: Not to leave you in the cold in more than one thread, lemme answer this one. It has to be said that you lack proper perspective on many lines. i didn't refuse to highlight, i clearly quoted the passages and showed you how God had given prior punishments. You lost and lack perspective by breaking one particular people into different people in your reply. you lack perspective by thinking that God is a man. You lack perspective by inferring that the nation of Israel are kids. You lack perspective by generalising disobedience. Disobedience to finish your food, or do the dishes is not disobedience of theft or murder or adultery or idolatry. The simplistic question is rather an attempt to muddle up issues, and leave readers without perspective like you.
Now, in punishing people, it should be noted that punishment differ in intensity and usefulness from time to time, person to person, and group to group. One man's poison is another's meat. The 12 strokes of cane that 'A' will brazenly take with swagger, 'B' might weep bitterly at even the prospect. Cutting grass is big deal for some, while its fun for another. 'C'that might kneel for hours might find it extremely strenuous to write "I am sorry for bad behaviour" in two pages. That's some perspective on punishment. Now for Israel(the set of people you recommended punishment for), the Bible and history shows that the worse punishment for them is captivity. It's last resort punishment, but you picked it first. I'll repeat again Actually yours might even be considered worse as it is your first and immediate recourse, while God tried other means first before going for your suggestion.
I already showed you the other means and you already quoted it. Some passages from the Bible to show you again that captivity was the worst form of punishment for an Israelite. The Israelites know of their history of captivity in Egypt from which God delivered them through Moses. Captivity comes with the full package. It is to them, the mother of all punishment, which they would rather not face for anything.
Jer 22:10 Weep ye not for the dead, neither bemoan him: but weep sore for him that goeth away: for he shall return no more, nor see his native country.
Here is a comparison between the dead and the captive. The Israelite would rather be dead than captive. It says weep not for the dead, but weep sore/bitterly for those that are taken captive(from their native country).
Jer 22:11 For thus saith the LORD touching Shallum the son of Josiah king of Judah, which reigned instead of Josiah his father, which went forth out of this place; He shall not return thither any more:
Jer 22:12 But he shall die in the place whither they have led him captive, and shall see this land no more.
There is the popular Jewish man's prayer in which he thanks God daily for not being a slave. It was so with the Jews of Jesus time who denied even ever being in bondage when they whole world virtually knows they were at least once in bondage to Egypt.
Joh 8:33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

God is the only wise God, who is good enough and knowlegdeable enough to know what punishment to give each. i thank God that you also gave/suggested punishments for defaulters. It is good to punish defaulters and criminals, and there is indeed a thing as the best punishment for a crime.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

It is only an ostrich behaving human that will continuously show a blind eye to God's goodness to us, and only be looking for worst case scenario punishments to fault God. God is not mocked, neither can He be judged. You(and every man) on the other hand await judgement.

You are a liar and you now it. . .Pls re read the nonsense yo just typed and laught at your self. . .I gave you clear verse from the boo k of Amos that says your god infected people with diseases, famine, and killed their kids because they refuse to obey him and worship him. . .All yo did was to make your own commentary about things i never even said and put a veriety of verse from other book of the bible just to explain absurdity away. . .Who do you think you are fooling?

Mr anony: Uhm, you miss the point entirely. When I talk about design, I infer intelligence and intelligence is not exclusively a human trait

Apart from living beings on earth, you do NOT know of anything that is intelligent. . .I know yo will claim your god is intelligent but in reality your god is human idea and conception, it is a human creation and human attribute to it their own emotions, feelings and character. . .

Too bad

You have failed to show that, you just said it. . .

The bold is untrue

Nope its not. . .You are basing your conclusions solely based on how the human society functions. . .You can not tell me if many things outside our own planet are designed. . Are asteroids designed?. . What about comets, the other planets and dwarf planets in or solar system. . .

Deep Sight: Mazaje I ask you yet again if you can see yourself and if anyone else can see you.

I was dissapointed at your last answer because the strangeness of the question ought to have provoked deeper thought.

Please attempt the question again.

What nonsense is this, i don't have time for your philosophical sophism and ramblings. . .How does the question above help better understand oneness of infinity?. . .

Logicboy03: One day, Majaze...one day.

You seem to have the answer to everything.....sha one day, I will rope you in.

Nothing do you. . .

Logicboy03: lol....I got no personal beef with Jesoul oo (except when she closes my threads or responds to my requests that werent meant for here)



lol......after reading the bold..I give up.......I give up........So Jesoul is perfect? I just give up.




But one question; What if Jesoul singles out certain atheists? What then?

She is not perfect but is a good moderator as far as I can say. . .If she singles out other atheist then she needs to be reprimanded if she is abusing her power as a mod. . .

@Op, hope you know that NDE can be induced using drugs?. . .

^^

I have posted so many things that are worse than this and non of them has been deleted or hidden. . .What exactly are you talking about?. . .If you have your personal beef with Jesoul, then thats btw you and her. . .But many atheist like me have posted insults, outright offensive statements and many more and non of my post has been hidden or deleted anywhere. . .The only time Jesoul deleted my post I called her out on it and my post was actually very offensive. . .No need beating a dead horse, as long as it is nairaland religion section atheist have the same freedom as christians to air their views. . .

tbaba1234: It is intellectual laziness to even suggest that he supports terrorism given the fact that he has a whole video on terrorism on youtube. Within a few minutes, you would have educated yourself on his true position. I have watched the video and there is nothing that supports acts of terror against civilians.

Unfortunately, many people are too lazy to actually investigate. It is disgusting the way people take quotes just to fulfill an agenda. I do not always agree with Dr zakir naik but i know his position on issues are far from extreme.

Some of his positions are extreme. . .To deny that is just to lie outrightly. . .

Logicboy03: You know, most atheists rejected the new changes to Reddit but there were "holier than thou" atheists that were in favour of the foolish changes.

Guess which camp you fall into?

@bold; bullshiit

Stop whinning. . .You are free to say or post anything here as long as it is within the laws of the forum. . .Atheist get as much freedom as christians on this section. . .

Image123: You have been forever arguing that it has to be seen to be believed or taken seriously, no?

Nope, it has to be detected is all I have been arguing for. . . .

Image123: i'm happy to read the bolded from you. It's what we have been telling you for ages as regards the spirit realm.

The spirit relm or what ever can not be seen but it can be detected no?. . .

Alfa Seltzer: No. Just sorting the chaff from the hay. You know, showing up the wolves in sheep clothing.

The grateful atheist that is thankful a religious zealot allows him some freedom. Spits. Satan forbid that I stoop so low beneath weakness.

Whatever. . .You are entittled to your own opinion. . .

Alfa Seltzer: ^^^ No mind am. See as he and JeSoul got each other's back. Some unholy alliance going on, me thinks.

E dey pain you

Logicboy03: which free hand was given?

Guy, why are you doing this?

1) First off, so because this section is not as harsh as the islamic one, we should be thankful?

2)Which post similar to mine? Was my op intended to mock?

3) Seriously, I think yu re used to the nigerian way....accept scraps, accept bad roads, accept no electicity, beg like slaves for govt contracts etc

Guy, enough is enough...

LOL!!!! Enough of what is enough?. . .Baba you win some and you lose some, stop beating a dead horse. . .This section is very free for any atheist to convey his message freely. . .You are free to disagree but I have been here for 7 years both as a christian and now as an atheist and i can confidently say that atheist are as free as christians to post what ever they want to post here without much discrimination. . .manmustwac is an atheist and he has deleted some christian topics on similar grounds. . .

Alfa Seltzer: I don't know if you have special protection from the annointed one, but she gave you as an example of a model atheist. It may not be wholly surprising that you are defending her policy in the face of blatant abuse of power that she shows here.

We are under constant persecution. My threads have been locked for what she termed "not passing the smell test". What type of Nairaland rule is that? No, you are wrong. We are not free to do what we want here. When I questioned the sexuality of Jesus, I got banned. When I posted an image of Jesus on the cross, it got deleted. How is that being allowed to do what we want?

Logicboy opened a perfectly lawful thread and it got locked because some bigots found the comments in it offensive.
Somebody put bible quotes in front of pictures and it got locked. When I said Jesus was an illitereate because we understand illiterates as people who didn't go to school, I was told it was insulting. How can stating the obvious be insulting.

There is a littany of the mod here overeaching. If you open your eyes, you can see instead of making general statements.

I understand your complains, but to be fair some of the things your outlined are offensive. . .How can you be questioning the sexuality of Jesus and say its not offensive?. . .I have seen manmustwac delete similar post from christians from some christians that are insulting or offensive to atheist. . .By they post are quite similar to the ones you outlined. . .All in all, nairaland religious section is OK. . The mod are human and as such they most make mistakes sometimes but over all they are very ok and the atheist here should not complain. . .We are free to do what ever we want here except violate the rules. . .I am saying this as some one that has violated the laws countless times. . .I have posted offensive comments, insulted Jesus, Mohammed, Allah, Yahweh and their followers. . .There is nothing that I haven't done here either as a retort and fire back when insulted or sometimes deliberately because I want to mock or irritate someone. . .Atheists have no reason to complain here, if we have a reason I will be the first to voice it. . .

Mr Troll: No you don't. I dare you to say it!


Anyway nice one so far. You've succeeded in moving far away from your initial position. Much like Ihedinobi when caught in his own web of twisty logic. He'll start a long escapism essay and at the end claim that he was misunderstood by everybody. . . .



. . . Except Anony

Ihedinobi and Anony are the same person. . .

chukkynwob: @Mazaje I thought you are an atheist?

So?. .

Alfa Seltzer: That's the problem. That atheists are considered inferior as to be tolerated and given a free hand. Who are they to give us? Why should we accept whatever those christians give? If we can't say our minds we better move or they move. Muslims moved. Christians can move as well.

I don't want any christian giving me a free hand. I was like them, a deluded christian before, so I don't know why an inferior mind should be providing my freedom.

Not true, NL is owned by an atheist, one of the mods here on the religious section is an atheist. . . .By free hand i mean we have been allowed to do what we want freely without persecution here on the religious section. . .All in all, the mods have been very fair and atheist are free to do what ever they want here. . .Nothing like excessive moderation unless if you violate the rules. . .

I disagree with you LB. . Atheist on nairaland religious section have been given a very fee hand. . .The islamic section is something else, but we have been given a very free hand here. . .One of the mods here is an active atheist. . .I have seen him remove a post that is similar to yours because he felt it was insulting and mocking towards atheist. . .Stop beating a dead horse, you win some and you lose some. . .That's how it is. .

saintvc: Just imagine every one is an atheist? How would the world be? Any difference,? Positive or negative,?

Things might be better or worse...No one knows. . . .