₦airaland Forum

Image123: wow, you're now going selective on your own statements? You said God is not undetectable or hidden anywhere. It seems the meaning is lost on you.

Where does it say that god is hidden or undetectable in the passage?. . .The passage only says your god dwells in a place no man can approach, it also says no man has seen him(its a contradiction since other passages have stated that some people have seen him e.g Moses). Seeing is NOT the only way an entity can be detected. . .There are many things that have been detected though other means than sight. . .The passage does NOT say the bible god can not be detected. . .

Image123: So this is all you could come up with after a week? Get some perspective and read.

What perspective?. . .You asked me to recommend how they should be punished, I did, you claimed your god's punishment was better, only to refuse to highlight the parts where he punished them with sickness, famine, killed their young ones, and sent death and destruction to them. . .I asked you a simple question, will you starve your kids, infect them with diseases and kill their family members because they refused to obey you?. . .

Mr anony: How can I say that I know it is designed without knowing what it is designed for? In the same way I can know that this was designed without knowing what it was designed for.
[url]www.glmorris.net/pilot/concept art/Complex Machine_small.jpg[/url]
If you disagree with me then it will mean that every machine you have ever used, you thought they assembled themselves by chance until you learnt how to use them. These include your phone, TV, car, clothes, paintings, writings e.t.c.

You know it was designed ONLY because it is a human product. . .You keep assuming that nature and the universe at large is a human society as such it must be designed. . .Humans always design things. . .All things that humans do are as a result of design, because humans design things does NOT mean that nature must also design things. . .You know that your TV, car, clothes, painting etc were designed because they are all human products. . .Pls tell me just one human product that you know of that was not designed. . .Now tell me if natural things like mount Everest and the Sahara desert were designed. . .What about a hurricane, was it designed?. . .Rain bow nko?. . .Was it designed?. . .What about volcanic mountains, mudslides and earthquakes?. . .Were they designed?. . .

chance has no laws that can make behavior predictable

You haven't show this to be true in any way. . .

Try Occam's razor. There is no need to multiply causes beyond necessity

It is not unnecessary since you are basing your entire premise on how things function in the human society. . .Complex things and structures here most times require more than one designer. . .

Image123: you said that the Bible does NOT talk about an undetectable or hidden God anywhere. Your ignorance is not my fault, no vex.

You are a joke. . Pls re-read the verse again. . .Here it is. . .

1Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen

Where in this verse does it can that god can not be detected?. . .The verse only talks about god who is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. It does not say he is undetectable. . .Where does the bible say that god is undetectable any where? A god that is said to speak to humans and be in a personal relationship with them?. . .Where does it say that god is undetectable. . .Seems you read your own bible upside down as always. . .

Image123: 1 Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

BTW, never have i read or met a more fallacious fellow than thehomer. Its like an infection.

What this hell is this nonsense? no man has seen god, yet we are told that people like Moses have seen him face to face?. . .

Deep Sight: Sorry sir Mazaje, but this is just arrant sttupidity.

I am talking about a specific god like the christian god that has defined attributes, not your imaginary oneness of infinity that is undefined and has no defined attributes except what YOU personally chose to give it. . .Oneness of infinity is just a god idea you personally created out of thin air and it has nothing to do with the point am making. . .

Image123: i asked you for THREE punishments for the same ONE set of people. You broke up the people and gave ONE punishment(imprison and labour). In this case, i actually do not see any reason for your arguments that God is not good, except your suggestion is not good but otherwise. If you read the passage you quoted, the punishment you are suggesting is the same thing that God was telling the people that He will do. So God does it and you try to paint Him as despicable, and i ask what you will do/suggest, and surprise surprise, you suggest the same thing. Actually yours might even be considered worse as it is your first and immediate recourse, while God tried other means first before going for your suggestion. Here it is below,

You have no shame. . .Didnt you see where it says he starved them, killed their kids, infected them with diseases?. . .

Amo 4:1 Hear this word, ye kine of Bashan, that are in the mountain of Samaria, which oppress the poor, which crush the needy, which say to their masters, Bring, and let us drink.
Amo 4:2 The Lord GOD hath sworn by his holiness, that, lo, the days shall come upon you, that he will take you away with hooks, and your posterity with fishhooks.
Amo 4:3 And ye shall go out at the breaches, every cow at that which is before her; and ye shall cast them into the palace, saith the LORD.
This is picture language for the captivity(imprisonment) that was to befall them. Here is another passage that says similar,
Hab 1:15 The Babylonians pull them all up with fishhooks, drag them away in nets, and gather them in dragnets. So they rejoice and are happy.
Any serious bible reader knows when this came to pass. God was telling them that they will be taken into captivity(for 70 years) if they did not repent. He then proceeded to tell of the prior punishments He had given them when they defaulted.
Amo 4:6 I left you with nothing to eat in any of your cities. I left you with no food in your entire land. And you still didn't return to me, declares the LORD.
Amo 4:7 I stopped the rain from falling three months before the harvest. I sent rain on one city and not on another. One field had rain. Another field had none and dried up.
Amo 4:8 So people from two or three cities staggered as they walked to another city in order to get a drink of water. But they couldn't get enough. And you still didn't return to me, declares the LORD.
Amo 4:9 I struck your crops with blight and mildew. Locusts repeatedly devoured your gardens, vineyards, fig trees, and olive trees. And you still didn't return to me, declares the LORD.
Amo 4:10 I sent plagues on you as I did to Egypt. With swords I killed your best young men along with your captured horses. I made the stench from your camps fill your noses. And you still didn't return to me, declares the LORD.
Amo 4:11 I destroyed some of you as I destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. You were like a burning log snatched from a fire. And you still didn't return to me, declares the LORD.
Amo 4:12 This is what I will do to you, Israel. Prepare to meet your God. This is what I will do to you, Israel!

Read what is written and stop spewing lies. . .

Uyi Iredia: Agreed. My point still stands.

Nope it doesn't. . .Dark energy, dark matter and multiverses are NOT things that intereact with humans, they do not have a personal relatiionship with humans, do not answer their prayers, protect them or favor them over other humans. . .God is said to do all these things, if it is true then god must be detected in one way or the other by a neutral observer. . .actually the bible even talks about signs that will follow believers so that those that do not believe will see and believe. . .The fact that we do not see any of these claims or promises in reality and the with the fact that the christian god that is said to be detectable remains undetectable means he does not exist. . .Mind you when we talk about god, we are talking about god as advertised or presented by the christians not, the deist undetectable god people like anony are trying to sell here. . .The god as presented in the bible is NOT what anony or davidylan are trying to sell on this thread. . .

Uyi Iredia: Hence, dark endrgy, dark matter and multiverses are non-existent since they aren't detectable. Unrecorded past events also don't exist since they aren't detectable.

God as presented by religions like christianity is supposed to be detectable by definition, because he intereacts in the world all of the time.....

Emusan: Please how many evolutions have you witness? Yet you believe in evolution you haven't observed with your eyes.

But the theologians have brain pass our genius who claim earth's atmosphere was formed in the presence of the Sun.

I am not an evolutionist. . .Do you know what the earth's atmosphere is?. . .Why do you keep spewing pathetic ignorance?. . .

Emusan: Well you're still looking at the Bible base on human's fallacious statements.

Now I will grant you four things and let's look maybe your clains are still right.
1. No oxygen in early atmosphere
2. Some organisms can survive without oxygen
3. Life was created in the ocean
4. Absence of ozone will not wipe out all lives.

I agree with this. .

look at this chain very well:
Ozone<---plants(oxygen)<---plants organisms<---**<---cells<---**<---primodal gem(amino acids)<---water<---atmosphere<---oxygen & hydrogen<---*****.
This chart simply means Ozone was formed through the oxygen plants organisms released, and plants organisms formed from many cells; NOTE: a link is missing there "which is how cells organized themselves to form LIFE-NOBODY KNOWS" then cells was formed in primodal gem(amino acids); NOTE: "how amino acids gathered together to form cell(s) it's still a mystery", amino acid formed in water, water form from oxygen & hydrogen, and atmosphere formed from water

Stop telling lies. . .The atmosphere of earth is a layer of gases surrounding the planet earth that is retained by earth's gravity. . .The atmosphere was NOT formed by water, the major component of the atmosphere is nitrogen and it is not found in water. . .Stop lying. . .

The first lie, you claim life has been in existence when the whole earth was covered with ice, whereas atheist scientist prove that when earth was cooling and atmosphere begins to form but the gravity of the was not strong enough to hold the atmosphere it falls down which gives rapid cooling to earth's surface after that LIFE begins.

What are you talking about?. . .What has the nonsense you wrote here got to do with the ice age?. . .

Second lie, if there was no oxygen in the atmosphere WATER could not form: "water contains Hydrogen & Oxygen" and if water did not form primodal gem won't start and LIFE won't exist.

Stop exposing your ignorance, water came to earth through comets strikes. Many comets are composed mainly of ice and rock. during the accretion cometary impacts were frequent. Secondly outgassing by voclanoes also released hydrogen and some oxygen. Volcanic eruptions were very common as the earth was cooling down and settling. . .So your claim that water will not form if there was oxygen in the atmosphere is very false. . .

Third lie, if oxygen wasn't in atmosphere Ozone won't exist (which reflects most harmful rays away from reaching the earth) and earth's surface will remain HOT forever and no life will exist.
Who is right between MOSES and CSOMOLOGIST?

Life was already in existence before the ozone was formed. . .Life already exist inside of volcanoes and under the oceans. . .Bacterias exist inside volcanoes that use methane to respire. . .

If earth's atmosphere can't form in the presence of the Sun, do you still believe earth was formed through remains sun metoers?

You keep repeating this childlish lie without showing how. ..How can the earth's atmosphere not form in the presence of the sun?. . .Do you know what the earth's atmosphere is?. . .As i aforementioned, the atmosphere of earth is a layer of gases surrounding the planet earth that is retained by earth's gravity. All the gases were formed in the presence of the sun. . .If you disagree then pls show me how nitrogen or argon(some of the gases that make up the atmosphere) could not be formed in the presence of the sun. . .Stop talking as if you are uneducated pls. . .

Cheif atheists will never braek everything down like this for you people to see the true light.

I have broken everything down more than you can ever do. . .

About organism survive in extreme cold or hot conditions is highly refuted by our neighbouring planets.

It has not been refuted any where. . .Bacteria have been found in volcanoes and other forms of life exist in extreme places like under the oceans. . .

If you like tell yourself the truth or keep decieving yourself. No scientific method can disprove existence of God anybody that said there's no God believe on his own will not because somebody prove it.

God remains a myth as such no one can disprove it. . .But science has disproved the genesis creation account. . .

davidylan: Since emotions do not interact with the universe in a detectable manner, i therefore declare it non-existent.

Here is the problem, god as defined by christianty is supposed to be detectable. . .He is said to always interact with humans and wants to be in a relationship with the. . .Even the bible talks about signs that will follow believers so that unelievers will see and believe. . .The bible does NOT talk about an undetactable god any where. . .it talks about a god that is actively engaged with humans. . .Not the hidden god christians apologist are now constantly selling. . . .That is not the god advertised in the bible. . .

Emusan: If reading scientist materials either books or through internet together with Bible that make me a Christian then I would have become an atheist long time ago. Humans cannot find God thruogh his own way rather through God's way, the way of God is very clear to those who seek it. While you seperate website you can visit, I read through all site because I have the greatest evidence of God's existence in me. No amount of information I can read in this life that can change my worship to God even if the most greatest man of God in this world join atheist today; simply because I have searched for God and I have seen Him personally (I know you may say the the Bible says nobody can see God, what I mean is that I have found God's truth). He exist! I'm only here to let you know that there're some flaws in information you read online that might make you believe there's no God.

Many Christians have turn to Atheist, Christian to Muslim, e.t.c just because they can't search for the truth. Jesus said something before He died in, "John 14:16- And I will pray the father, and he shall give another Comforter [which is Holy Spirit], that he may abide with you for ever" After this He said again in verse "17-Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you" what Jesus said here is the major problem of many Christians today because they didn't search for the Holy Spirit and allow the Holy Spirit to dwell in them.
People that have failed to noticed this among them still remain under Christians do anything they like but they still go to church every sunday, while the rest have turned to atheist or other religion. If Jesus Christ can promise us Holy Spirit and some people can truly show the evidence for Holy Spirit then His ministry must be true. I can't force you to believe in God and His son I only try to show you the truth, I'm not a pastor but believer in God's word and His existence
Matt 24:16-And the gospel(truth) of the kingdom shall be preached to all nations, then end shall come.

Stop copying and pasting the works of theologians that pose as scientist. . .All the materials you copy from answers in genesis are non scientific but pseudo scientific. . .

Emusan: Then if LIFE couldn't start on earth or space, where life come from?

Because you rejected Bible it can't be true but God can't lie, He witnesses about all His creations.

Not all scientist support evolution, hope you know that?

Your god has already lied, read the creation accounts in the bible, it says and you agree that the earth was created before then sun. . .That is a LIE. . .The sun was in existence before the earth was formed, in fact the sun was very instrumental in the formation of all the planets in the solar system, without the sun there wioll be no earth or any of the planets in the solar system. . .We know how other solar systems are formed and the sun always comes first. . .We have images from hubble, kepler and other space observatories. . .

Mr anony: This is irrelevant to the thread. I don't need to know exactly what it is designed for in other to know that it is a design. All I have to show on this thread is evidence that the universe was designed.

How can you say you don't know what it was designed for , yet still claim it was designed?. . .A car is desiged for driving. . .What is the universe designed for?. . .

How does the universe behave? It acts in accordance to physical laws of nature e.g the law of gravity

That does not mean it was designed, it just means it acts in certain ways. . .Chance can also make it act in such ways. . .

Try specific patterns of motion such that we can calculate and predict these movements, collisions and explosions.

It only means that the universe acts in a particular way. . .

I never said anything about the universe functioning as a human society

That is what your entire premise is, re-read what you have written. . .If we are to go with your claims, we can as well say that the universe has designers. . .

Does god answer prayers?. . .No he does not. . .

Evil Brain: Please, stop! This "increase in genetic information" stuff is nonsense. Genes and even entire chromosomes get added, deleted and duplicated all the time in nature. Polyploidy in plants like apple trees, bananas and wheat is just one example of how this can happen. Please stop reading creationist nonsense. If you want to learn science, read materials written by scientists, not religious fanatics promoting an agenda.

Nice words of advice for Emusan. . .

Mr anony: Lol, since you want a bible verse:

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates.
Rev 22:15 Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and fornicators and murderers and idolaters, and every one who loves and practices falsehood.

The bible has now said to your hearing that sinners are outside heaven. It is now up to you to show from scripture why you think there will be sin in heaven

There is no sin in heaven, yet we are told that satan waged a war in heaven with many angles?. . .

Mr anony: Show from scripture

From 1 John, it says. . ."If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

ad hominem. Proof please

Are you saying that you do not sin sometimes?. . .John in the bible say your decieve yourself if you claim that. . .

was Satan born-again?

Doesn't the bible put the angels are the purest of all god's creation?. . .It says human will be like angles in heaven. . .

Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Hebrews 12:22-23 But you are come unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, who are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect.

If angles that are higly placed can sin and wage war in heaven a place that is said to contain no sin, why not humans?. . .

Mr anony: Lol, you are just being purposefully irrational.

I have shown you that we sin on earth because of the temptations of the flesh preventing us from living according to the Spirit of God in us.
I have also shown you that the flesh that causes us to be tempted into sin will be discarded and replaced with a pure spiritual one.
If in heaven the thing that causes us to sin is no longer there, from where will the sin come?

Do you want to argue the position that God's Spirit only leads people on earth but then abandons them or leads them against Himself in Heaven? You'll have to show from scripture where you are drawing such conclusions from if that's your argument.

Everything you talked about from the scriptures is to happen here on earth(with regards to sin), even the verse says that flesh that causes people to be tempted into sin will be discarded and replaced with a pure spiritual one here on earth not in heaven. . .The verse does not say that people will not sin in heaven. . .You are just arguing from silence. . .

Mr anony: The point I was making from those verse was simply that our flesh is in contention with the new spirit which is in us. Paul even exclaimed in 7:24 "who will deliver me from this body of death". I went further to argue that our sinful flesh shall be discarded at the coming of our Lord and we shall put on a Heavenly body.
How do I know that we will have new bodies at the resurrection? You can study 1Corinthians 15 especially from verse 42 downwards.

Here is an excerpt:

I tell you this, brethren: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
Lo! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. For this perishable nature must put on the imperishable, and this mortal nature must put on immortality. - 1Corinthians 15:50-53

Have I satisfied your query now?

Firstly, the passage in Romans have nothing to do with what you were talking about. The verses in Romans are talking about people who accept Jesus and allow his spirit to dwell in them here on earth, it says his spirit will take over their lives and lead them acordingly here on earth and NOT in heaven. . .It has nothing to do with his second coming or his kingdom. . .Nothing at all. . .The verse in corithtians is also NOTY talking about the ability of not sinning, it only says that human nature will change from the perishable nature to imperishable nature. . .Mortal nature will be changed to immortality. . .No where does it say that humans will not sin in heaven or have the ability not to sin in heaven. . .Both passages in Romans and in corinthtians have nothing to do with what you are saying. . .

Mr anony: You try. Apparently Thehomer agrees too. I still hold that he is ignorant of what it means to be born again and failed to bluff his way through.


Now let us go back to the first place I asked him this question here




Now why did I ask that question? Simply this: Because if thehomer really knew what it means to be born-again and what it means for a Christian to go Heaven, he will not have brought up the idea of a murderer in heaven because such a thing is simply impossible.

To be born again means to be born of God, to walk according to the Spirit and not according to the flesh (i.e to be dead to sin). One does not earn a born again status by doing good things. One becomes born again when he completely submits to the Lordship of Christ and is transformed by Him. The Spirit of God now dwells in him, changing his desires such that he now wants the things of God and not things patterned after his selfish lusts.

Now why is it that Christians have been known to fall into sin atimes? I think the following passage explains it best:

Rom 7:14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate.
Rom 7:16 Now if I do what I do not want, I agree that the law is good.
Rom 7:17 So then it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh. I can will what is right, but I cannot do it.
Rom 7:19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me.
Rom 7:21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inmost self,
Rom 7:23 but I see in my members another law at war with the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin which dwells in my members.
Rom 7:24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
Rom 7:25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I of myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do: sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,
Rom 8:4 in order that the just requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 To set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God's law, indeed it cannot;
Rom 8:8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But you are not in the flesh, you are in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Any one who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.
Rom 8:10 But if Christ is in you, although your bodies are dead because of sin, your spirits are alive because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit which dwells in you.
Rom 8:12 So then, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh--
Rom 8:13 for if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body you will live.
Rom 8:14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
Rom 8:15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the spirit of sonship. When we cry, "Abba! Father!"
Rom 8:16 it is the Spirit himself bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
Rom 8:17 and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.

Now what was I trying to point out with that passage? I was showing that as long as we live on earth our renewed spirit which is born of God will contend with the flesh. But when the Lord gives us a new body at His coming, when we inherit God's kingdom, we will not have the lusts of our flesh to contend with anymore but we would have been transformed in Spirit and now also in body and our desires will be in tune with God's therefore it will be impossible for us to sin in heaven.

The part in bold is completely false because NO WHERE in the verse says that a new body will be given to any body at Jesus's coming. . .The passage was just talking about how people here ON EARTH will be transformed when they accept Jesus and allow his spirit to dwell in them. . .Why are you making things up?. . .Pls show me from the verses in Romans where it says that these things will ONLY happen at Jesus coming. . .Pls show it. . .The verses are talking about people who accept Jesus and allow his spirit to dwell in them here on earth. . .If the people who accept Jesus here on earth and allow his spirit dwell in them still sin and violate god's laws then why won't they do same in heaven?. . .

Emusan: Enough for your tautology post.

Miler-Urey's experiment to simulate how life might have originated in early earth gave atheist scientist strong evidence to prove that life truly would have originated from land and it was published in many biology textbook, that scientist have shown how life could have started in early earth without telling people what they actually preoduced. Though their intention isn't to create life but to show how life could have started. Later when the experiment was critically observed. They discovered that all molecules tend to distroy in the presence of oxygen, which brought the idea of no-oxygen in early atmosphere and when it was shown if atmoshpere never has oxygen Ozone layer could not form and chemical process can't take place, they resort to change the story by saying life didn't start on LAND but in the ocean despite that what Miler-Urey actually produce was a mixture of two type of amino's Why all life use only one type amino and the reason why all living things choose only one type is still a mystery. Then atheist scientist begin to change the case and claim life started in the ocean, again when the effect of HYDROLYSIS (means water splitting) on molecules was brought to light they were dumbfolded. Later some rise up again and state it clearly that life didn't start from earth it starts in space and find its way into earth through metoers falling, there another problem arises "if life started in space our planet shodn't be the only one to hold life" other planets should have life as "natural process or survival of the fitess" should be transfer equally in the universe but the only life they could only find is an organism in planet Mars, then we ask why this organism have not evolve into a big complex nature or does this mean Mars was created thousands of years ago or it is only earth that natural selection apply? Then the organism found on Mars was discover to use other type of amino that lives on earth rejected.

If you argue from now till tomorrow atheist scientist don't know actual place that life originated from.
These are the only possible way they have, then search you heart and mind very well and ask yourself if they truly know and sure about what they claim, why many assumption, why not be one and rest their evidence with it? Remember life from space or in the ocean doesn't have any experimental support just a continous assumption on what Miler-Urey did.

If you want to argue again pick another fact from my OP and let discuss it.

The fact that scientist do not know exactly how life started does not mean god. . .God is just your default position for you do not know. . .Even the creation accounts in genesis is wrong and demonstrably false. . .There are no atheist scientist, just scientist. . .

Emusan: I know you're a very sharp person, why did you ignore this one? "If this happened, cancer would break out and all of the living civilizations, and all species on earth would be in jeopardy (Geocities.com, 1998)."

The fact is all living things will not die off once the ozone layer is off. . .many living things have thrived without the ozone layer, the ozone was formed as a result of oxygen that was released by living things. . .

If life can be found in this conditions then Mercury, Venus, and other planets suppose to have life in them.

It is not if, life has already been found in such conditions. . .

Likewise Sun created other planets.

Sure. . .The suns gravitational pull played a major role in the formation of all the planets. . .Scientist have measured the age of the sun and it is older than that of the earth. . .

Get inspire to read Bible not like the way you read evolution book before post them.

The bible is an ancient book of mythology. . .

Even why earth's surface was covered with ice you don't despite that I main mention of it two times.

I have explained this in my reply to Evilbrain page 1 also in post you quoted. Can we see the video of the asteriod? It can't even try it because God is in control.

God is in control of what?. . .

Mr anony: You might also have to tell us the God you have in mind.

The God I have in mind is by definition the creator of the universe.

OK. . . .

If everything that begins to exist has a cause and the universe began to exist then it must have a cause.

Or causes. . . .

If a thing has interconnected parts and functions according to a specific pattern such that one can predict with accuracy how it ought to behave, it can be said that the thing is designed. If the universe is made up of multiple interconnected parts acting according to certain arbitrary laws such that one can accurately predict how it ought to behave, then the universe is designed.

What was the universe designed for?. . .How does the universe behave and what was it designed and created for?. . .

If the universe both began to exist and works according to a specific pattern instead of utter chaos, then it was not merely caused but intelligently and deliberately created and hence God must exist.

When we see the universe we see utter chaos. . .Collinding stars, exploding stars that give rise to new stars, collisions that form planets and destroy planets etc. . .What specific patters does the universe follow?. . .Why must there be a god and not many gods?. . .If you insist that the universe must follow the way a human society functions then there must be gods and not a single god. . .The universe is not a human society and must not behave or function as one.. .

@ Anony do you believe in a god that interacts in the world, example do you believe in a god answers prayers?. . .

Emusan: I'm very sorry for you. Anyway you said you're not an evolutionist you just believe evolution by faith.

"Ozone layer protect all lives not some."

"The ozone layer is essential for human life. It is able to absorb much harmful ultraviolet radiation, preventing penetration to the earth's surface. Ultraviolet radiation (UV) is defined as radiation with wavelengths between 290-320 nanometers, which are harmful to life because this radiation can enter cells and destroy the deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) of many life forms on planet earth. In a sense, the ozone layer can be thought of as a 'UV filter' or our planet's built in sun's screen (Geocities.com, 1998). Without the ozone layer, UV radiation would not be filtered as it reached the surface of the earth. If this happened, cancer would break out and all of the living civilizations, and all species on earth would be in jeopardy (Geocities.com, 1998). Thus, the ozone layer essentially allows life, as we know it, to exist."

So if there's no ozone layer life is not possible on earth and all your claim since is that early earth's atmosphere has no oxygen.

You are lying. . .Stop telling lies, from your quote. . .because this radiation can enter cells and destroy the deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) of many life forms on planet earth

It says many life forms an NOT all life forms. . .I said oxygen it self which ozone is its by product was first produced by photosynthetic prokaryotic organisms that emitted O2 as a waste product. There will be some for of life on earth without the ozone. So stop lying. . .

It can't be seperated from atmosphere it forms together with substance that made up atmosphere. If there is no ozone layers in atmosphere it's not that lives at risk alone but the temperature of the earth will increase which will bridge the equillibrium between warming and cooling system of the earth that keeps atmosphere in balance.

Stop lying, it can, oxygen at a time was not in the atmosphere, same with ozone. . .Ozone was formed as a result of oxygen molecules reactiing with ultraviolent light. . .You keep repeating one lie after the other. . .Life exist in very extreme places. Bacteria have been found living inside volcanoes already, they inhale methane. They have adapted to living in very extreme environment. . .Life was already on earth before the ozone layer was formed. It only became more abundant after the ozone layer was formed.

If not, the temperature of the earth will rise and cause many catastrophy (i.e volcanic erruption, which will continue to keep both inner core and surface temperature to increase) to the extent that atmosphere will fall down like what happen in first formation of atmosphere at early earth when the whole earth's surface was covered with ice-According to cosmologist.

I kow all this, the bottom line is life already exist inside extreme places like volcanoes and under the oceans where there is no sun light, no oxygen, and where there is extreme heat and pressure. . .

Then tell me if atmosphere formed in the presence of the sun, do you think it can work? Just tell yourself the truth.

Why won't it work?. . .The sun is actually what created the earth, the sun's gravitational force is what makes the earth to even rotate on its own axis. . .the earth gets most of its energy from the sun. . .The earth's atmosphere consist of gases that were emmited as a result of the chemical reactions that took place during its formation and as the earth cooled down after it was formed. The all took place in the presence of the sun. . . .If we are to go by the nonsense written inside the bible that the earth was created before the sun, then what kept the sun in orbit and where did the plants get their enegry for photosysnthesis from?. . .

The only thing that can make it happen is that if cosmologist can claim that early sun doesn't powerful or contians some harmful rays as it is now then life can form and atmosphere can form too. If not, nothing can happen earth will remain hot.

The tempreture of earth fluctuates a lot. . .There was a time where most of the earth was covered in ice. . .As the earth changes, life also changed and adapted. . .An asteriod big enough to destroy all human life just passed the earth last week, if it had hit the earth most life forms will die, but i believe that new life forms will form again after a very long time. . .

Emusan: Infact and I don't even know I'm wasting my time with the most brilliant atheist in the world.

@color-I will ask you again and if you know you can't answer it then just quit. What is the purpose of ozone layer in the atmosphere? mazaje "if will destroy ozone layers, atmosphere will remain but what will happen to all living things on earth?" please, answer meeeeee

LOL! First you claimed that ozone can not be seperated from the atmosphere which is false now you are asking more questions. . .The ozone layer protects most of the Sun's UV radiation. Ozone is actually dangerous. When car exhaust and other things cause the production of ozone gas near the surface of the earth, it pollutes the air and causes health problems. . .Living things will be affected badly without the ozone layer, but it doesnt mean that all life will end without the ozone layer. . .

If not because you have shallow brain, you said plants do not need oxygen to survive yet you said in your provious post that both plants and animals evolve from one unicellular organism. Let agree plants don't need oxygen what of animals that depend solely on oxygen when both evolve from the same unicellular organism. It means animals will die only plants will survive.

Who said plants and animals evolved from one unicellular organism, by one i understand you mean same, right?. . .I never said that. . .Not all animals need oxygen, many unicellular organisms that are not plants do not require oxygen to survive. . .Once there was oxygen, mutation could have given rise to organisms that required oxygen from those that were already in existence that did not require oxygen . .

Leave atheism it doesn't favour you.

Leave religious mythology, it doesn't favour you as well. . .

So want them to claim omni-scient and all-powerful being where will they get such power from?

The major problem you have is you mix everything up and think only atheist are the one responsible for all the functional things will enjoy today.

Ben cardson is the best neurosurgeonist in USA yet is a christian. Christians study evolution, geology, e.t.c

Dr Ben Carson is NOT the best neurosugoen in the USA, stop telling lies. . .Many christians have studied evolution and have accepted it. . .Prof Ken Miller who is one of the greatest defenders of evolution in the USA is a christian. . .More christians believe in evolution than atheist. . .

Mr anony: perhaps we should talk about what we mean by supernatural. Supernatural to us is something that transcends nature's laws as we know them. For instance in this world, people don't get raised from the dead. Someone getting raised from the dead would rightly be a supernatural event. A world where people did not die would not be a natural world but a supernatural one.
I'll however grant you that we use natural and supernatural as place holders and that's why we usually have confusion. For instance if everyone died and rose from the dead from tomorrow, we will immediately start calling it a natural thing. But from where we stand today, such a world is still supernatural. Get my drift?

I get your drift. . .

God is not a genie.

But god as presented in the bible is a genie, he magically heals people and raises them from the dead in some cases. . .

The point still remains that you cannot talk about something being helpful or harmful to your computer without first granting that it has a purpose subject to the owner/designer of the computer.

OK. . .I get. . .

What? Do you know what it means to deserve something? You might as well say that they deserve to be poor and diseased and they don't have to do anything to deserve that.

LOL. . .Why should they deserve to be poor?. . .Again i ask must they do anything to deserve a good life, why not have a good life because its good to have a good life as opposed to havibg a bad life?

Emusan: Let's talk about the issue on ground, if life could not start through chemical processes others assumptions about life migth not be true as we see it.

Hope you have read more about 'hydrolysis' for your life starting in ocean.

because LIFE could not have started on land and ocean some athesit scientist have proposed that LIFE started in the space and enter into earth through meteors rocks.

Did you know all these? Even life from space is in question too. So as at today atheist scientist don't know where life originated from.

Leave atheism and search for wisdom.

Life could not start on earth, yet you believe that some god some where created things using words, eh?. . .How does word change to living things?. . .You also believe was created from mud, how does mud convert to living cells. . .Can you give me the chemical equation that changes dust to living cells?. . .

Emusan: @bold-Ozone is part of atmosphere, you can't seperate them.

@color-Is not that others atheist didn't view this thread but because it pass their level they decided to keep silent. The more you try to explain yourself the more you expose your ignorance.

If atmosphere was always there without Ozone layers, 1. what is the purpose of ozone layer in the atmosphere?
2. Why NASA is complaining about 'global warming' that is atmosphere is lossing some of its protective layers i.e ozone, due to high rate of greenhouse-gas emission?

Ozone is part of the atmosphere but there was a time the earth had no ozone layer. You CAN separate them, we can destroy the earth ozone layer now if we want to and other parts of the atmosphere will still remain . .Ultraviolet light striking these oxygen molecules in the atmosphere created the ozone. Before oxygen , there was no ozone layer in the atmosphere. . .

Life cannot start with oxygen, life cannot start with no-oxygen.

Many life forms do not need oxygen, plants do not need oxygen to survive. . .Stop peddling this myth. . .

When they believe God created everything which evidence do they need provide again? It is atheist that believe in non-existence of God that need to provide evidence which they can't provide.

They need to provide many evidence, god did is means nothing at all, it is only a claim. . .

Mr anony: If in a natural world as we have now, there are diseases, then surely a world where there are no diseases cannot be natural in the same sense.

It is the same natural world. . .After all accroding to the story it is the same world was only that it was cursed. . .A world without dieases isn't a supernatural one. . .

As I said you have set up shop to blame God which ever way this goes.
1. If He provides doctors, He didn't help them
2. If He ends the pain by allowing them to die, He didn't help them
3. If He heals them by allowing them to survive with no human help, It was coincidence and He still didn't help them.

Provide doctors?. . .God does not provide doctors anywhere. . .Is taking their lives the only way to end pain?. . .I don't think babies born with dieases make it own their own without human help of any kind. . .

What exactly should God do for you to consider it help?

Heal them without human help. . .The way magically heals people in the bible for example. . .If a baby is born with some form of illness, all god needs to do is heal the child once the parents of the child pray for the child. . .No hospital, no doctors, nothing, the way the bible talks about it. . .Pray and the child will be healed instantly. . .That will be what i will consider as help. . .

How do you even know that something is good or bad without presupposing a purpose? To make my point a bit clearer, let me use an analogous question:

How can you know your computer is working properly or that something will help or harm it without presupposing that your computer has a purpose?
Similarly how can you know that something will harm or help man without presupposing that man's existence has a purpose?

Purpose is subjective, my computer;s main purpose might be for browsing, while that of my friend might be for data storage , another friend's computer's purpose might be for playing music. Man's existence is also subjective. For some it is to be happy and enjoy their stay here on earth. . .For others it is to worship their deities and for some its to achieve nirvanah. . .All purposes are subjective. . .

Why? what did they do to deserve it?

Must they do anything to deserve it?. . .