₦airaland Forum

Freksy: The science of mathematical probability offers striking proof that the Genesis creation account must have come from a source with knowledge of the events. The account lists 10 major stages in this order: (1) a beginning; (2) a primitive earth in darkness and enshrouded in heavy gases and water; (3) light; (4) an expanse or atmosphere; (5) large areas of dry land; (6) land plants; (7) sun, moon and stars discernible in the expanse, and seasons beginning; ( sea monsters and flying creatures; (9) wild and tame beasts, mammals; (10) man.

You remain a liar, because non of what you wrote is to be found in the bible. . .primitive earth and darkness with heavy gases?. . .Where did that appear in any part of the creation account?. . .Expanse of atmosphere?. . .You are just a liar. . .

(1) a beginning heaven and earth were created at the begining...................................................................................................1:1

(2) ..... God created light divided the light from the darkness. God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night1:2. . .

Day One

(3) Firmament: God said let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters above from the waters below.And God called the firmament Heaven................................................................................................1:3,5

Day Two
(4) ..............................................................................1:6-8

Day Three
(5) And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so......................................................................................1:9,10
(6) And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, [and] the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.........................................................................................................1:11

Day Four
(7) And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day(sun), and the lesser light to rule the night(moon): he made the stars also, And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, ........1:14-16

Day Five
( And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl [that] may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good......................................................................1:20,21

Day Six
(9) And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good..........................................................................1:24
(10)
man.....................................................................................................................1:26,27

I have fixed it for you. . .

Science agrees that these stages occurred in the above general order. What are the chances that the writer of Genesis just guessed this order? The same as if you picked at random the numbers 1 to 10 from a box, and drew them in consecutive order. The chances of doing this on your first try are 1 in 3,628,800! So, to say the writer just happened to list the foregoing events in the right order without getting the facts from somewhere is not realistic. To say it is false will make one a blatant liar before others.

which order are you talking about?. . .The other that the earth was in existence before the sun and stars were made?. . .

Freksy: Wrong! The bible does not give a detailed account of how God created everything in seven days. The Genesis account was not written to show the "how" of creation. Rather, it covers major events in a progressive way, describing what things were formed, the order in which they were formed and the time interval, or "day," in which each first appeared. In the first craetive day, light started to appear. You can't have light without the source.

It does, it talks about how god created everything according to the knowleged of the people that wrote the creation myth. . .

The translation by Benjamin Wills Newton gives the same picture of continuing development of a process once started.

Rotherham, in a footnote on "Luminaries" in the Emphasised Bible, says: "In ver. 3, 'ôr ['ohr], light diffused." Are they also "apologetic nonsense"?

Yep, they are apologetic nonsense, Benjamin wells was just giving his own opinion, and it counts for nothing. . .Because that is not what the original hebrew meant. . .The genesis 1 creation account in REALITY is a rabbincal commentry on the genesis 2 creation account which was written much ealier. . .Rabbi Boteach a professor of Jewish religious history in New York has a youtube video on it, i will look it up and post it here. . .He is a practicing Jew that knows the actual history of how the hebrew bible was complied and written. . .He himself know the truth and says its an allegory. . .

When examining the Genesis account, it is helpful to keep in mind that it approaches matters from the standpoint of people on earth. So it describes events as they would have been seen by human observers had they been present. This can be noted from its treatment of events on the fourth Genesis "day." There the sun and moon are described as great luminaries in comparison to the stars. Yet many stars are far greater than our sun, and the moon is insignificant in comparison to them. But not to an earthly observer. So, as seen from the earth, the sun appears to be a 'greater light that rules the day' and the moon a 'lesser light that dominates the night.'—Genesis 1:14-18.

Your own making and your own lies. . .The passage does NOT say any of the lies you are spewing here. . .It only says that the , moon, earth and stars were created on the 4th day of creation. . .It says they were created and placed in the firmament to give light into the earth on the fourth day. . .You can lie all you want but it is there in the bible. . .I have shown that to you already. . .

Gen. 1:1 says "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth".
The heavens had bodies and the earth had crust and water covering it. When God called for light to appear in the first creative day, light gradually came forth, not from the earth, but from the light source(s) in the heaven which were later made to appear on creative day 4.

Another lie, you keep lying to yourself. . .No where in the account does it say the heavens had any bodies, that is your own making, yopu are just using scientific knowledge and trying to force the mythoilogy to agree with it. . .It just said let there be light and there was light and god seperated the light into day and night. . .It never said the light appeared from a light source. . .In many places the bible talks about a new heaven and new earth that does not require the light of the sun. . .

When God made lights, one to rule over the day and the other, the night (Gen. 1:14-18), it wasn't announcement of the birth of the sun, moon and stars, for they had been in existence for untold number of years prior to day 4.The main emphasis were on their appearance and more functions. Where do you think the light on creative day one (Gen. 1:3,5) came from?

Where was it written in the bible that they were in existence for untold number of years before the fourth creative day. . .Where was it written, show me?. . .

When God made the dry land to appear on creative day 3 (Gen.1:9,10), that was not announcement of the birth of the earth's crust, for it had been in existence for untold number of years prior to day 3.- Gen 1:1

Where was this written in the creation account?. . .You think the writer of the genesis myth knows anything about the earth crust?. . .You are a joker. . .Show me where any of the nonsense you wrote appears in the creation account in the bible. . .

Contrary to your claim, the bible does not give a detailed account of how God created everything in 7 days. Also, it was not written as a science book, but has given us the order in which things were formed/made to appear, and the time interval, or "day," in which each first appeared - like the sun, moon and stars that first appeared on creative day 4, though had been in existence for untold number of years.

The bible very clearly use the word made(created), it does NOT use the word appear, it is your own making. . God made the firmament on the second day, it does not say it appeared on the second day. he made the sun, the moon and the stars on the fourth day and he placed them in the elusive firmament to give light to the earth. . .That is what was written. . .Forcing scientific knowledge to agree with the creation myth is pure dishonesty. . .

Why wouldn't there be grasses in day 3? Light gradually appeared from creative day 1 - Gen.1:3. The diffused light would have become quite strong by then, ample for the process of photosynthesis so vital to green plants.

Sure, light had already appeared, but it was not from the sun. . . .The bible never says that. . .

Lol.. you have omitted the greatest myth - undirected explosion.

undireacted explaosin is what gave birth to our own star, after a supernova, new stars are born, the debris, and dust later come together to form planets. . .So yes, explosions do give birth to order, because even our own sun and planets came as a result of a supernova explosion. . .

truthislight: Why are you replying such an ignorant statement sef?

Silent they say is the best answer for a "f......"

If someone does not know that the position/distance of the earth from the sun is just the perfect position then he has nothing to offer any person in a public forum cause he is suffering from big time ignorancy.

The fact is, if the earth is to move away from the sun or closer to the sun from its current position it will either becomes too cold for inherbitation(ice wilderness) or too hot a dry land(desert) unfit for inherbitation.

The current distance where the earth is from the intensity of this particular sun is just perfect.

Dont mind ignorant people with foolishness for sale roaming around aimlessly.

Too many ignoramus running around this forum trying to make themself relevant on the net when they are a liability to there individual society.

Just imagine the empty headed statement!

Smh for foolishness on public display.
*sigh*

what is this dumb ignoramous saying?. . .Do you know that over time the sun will go bigger and as a result destroy all life on earth if the position of the earth remains as it is?. . .some scientist are suggesting that if humans are still around , they can shift the position of the earth backwards so that the excessive heat will not destroy all life on it. . . . .It is just a suggestion at this stage, so i don't know what you are crying about. . .

ezme: Ijawkid get one of your cousins to take the paranormal challenge nau. 1 million dollars na we dey yarn here. E plenty pass amnesty money when una dey flex for bayelsa now

Abeg leave them jare. . .They are all lying. . .

ijawkid: Even the one wey I see with my eyes??...see this mazaje o............

Come to bayelsa na if you fit.......I ready.......just come...we go test am for somebody body and even your body so that you go rest........

You could even be the volunteer so that your mouth would be shut........

Brother, bring your self and i will shot you on your arm or your leg with my own gun. . .If it doesnt penetrate i will give you 10,000 euros and you can shot me as well. . .

ijawkid: Come bayelsa na........you go fit??...

Make we show you a child of 5yrs wey bullet no dey penetrate him body......

Really, na em JTF dey kill wuna left right and center, abi?. . .Keep lying to yourself. . .

ijawkid: You see my problem with you guys..........

Always doubting when you know nothing........

You now have said the egbesu asawana juju is a myth when you know next to nothing about it.......

My question is where was your azz when the ijaw/itshekiri war was on??.........where were you when militants were at war with the JTF's.....??.......

I hate it when you guys act like you've seen and known it all when in the real sense you are just empty barrels.........

What do you know about the egbesu juju??......

Where are u sef??.........

........

Plsssssssssssss i BEG you go and get the best bullet proof juju and we will meet at a place of my choosing. ..I am NOT kidding. . .I will shot you on your leg with my own gun. ..If it doesnt penetrate i will give you 10,000 euros and you can shoot me. . .If you agree to take this challenge when I get to naija in may we will try it out. . .You have from now to may 20th to get ready with your best bullet proof juju. . .I don't believe in hear say nonsense. . .Just action. . .

bolaino: lol, see mazaje dey form trained marks man, lol,

Seriously, I can shoot quite well. . .Make Ijaw kid bring himself make we test him claim. . .If him no go down make i know wetin cause am. . .

jayriginal: In addition, we could enter the James Randi Challenge and win a cool million dollars for proving the supernatural!
http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html

Now on the issue of bullets not penetrating people being shot, I advice anyone who can, to take a trip to the firing range. Precision with a gun requires a lot of training. Even if you point and think you have your target locked, there is still a powerful kickback that needs to be compensated for. The type of gun will also determine the type of kickback that will occur. This reaction will naturally throw off your aim. Now the natural impression would be that you pointed the gun straight at your target and missed (even though he might be close to you.)
The truth however is that you are not a trained marksman.

Now suppose your target is moving, running perhaps, that amplifies the problem as a moving target is harder to hit. Next thing, someone claims that it is evidence of the supernatural. No its not. Most of these stories are hearsay anyway because most people would not stay to watch a shootout. They will probably be running for their lives and will make up the story from a thousand and one sources.

Again, a trip to the firing range will validate these points Ive made. There you will see the difference between an amateur and a marksman.

I am a trained marksman and I can shoot quite well, if the target is stationary. . .I want Ijaw kid to present himself with all the best juju he can use and I will shot him, if he does NOT fall then , he will shot me and end my life. . .These people are just crazy. . .Bullet proof juju exist yet the USA is spending billions on body armor technology. . .Bullet proof juju exist, yet the white people were still able to conquer us with their ancient guns. . .If bullet proof juju exist the white man would have been speaking Yoruba and igbo now. . .

ijawkid: Na me send them not to fit find out about other bullet proofs??......

At least no one can come here and tell me the egbesu juju is a myth or some trick.........

I don see am with my eyes.........

We all know that eye witness testimonies are very useless. . . .Bullet proof JUJU is a myth. . .Bring any juju man i will come and shoot him if he does not fall he should take my life. . .If you agree then pls bring a volunteer and lets try it. . .I will come with my AK47 to any place of your choosing. . .Next month cos I will be in Naija. . .

ijawkid: What about many persons who have been shot with ak 47 rifles and no penetration.??......guess you would call that magic ba??.....

It is a LIE. . .Bring such a person and I will shoot him with my AK47. . .The person MUST fall. . .Bullet proof Juju is a LIE and a stupid myth that is been bandied around with no evidence at all. . .

bolaino: well I have watched the youtube videos where he explains how he does his levitation, but I have also watched videos where he levitates to heights of over 20 ft, so the explanation he gave does not explain those occasions,

and If I might ask if you're criss angel, and u can really levitate and you're using it to make money, would u expose your secret to the world? What I think is the explanation being given by criss angel is to try to make what he does look logical so that people like us freethinkers won't start asking questions that he would'nt want to answer, that's my two cents,

Watch the youtube videos I suggested and you will see that its all tricks, he himself and many others have explain the tricks employed. . . .Here are the videos. . .


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dycpIPTFJ04


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1I8cLhCcQ4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0MOVgzSU_E

truthislight: Empty head!

How will you know, you not this:

"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good." (Psalm 14:1).
..........................................

. Again the bible clearly lies when it says those that say there is no god have done abominable works and non does good. You know Bill Gates right? He is an atheist that says god does not exist, he is a very honorable many as attested by many including Christians , he runs the biggest charity organization foundation in the world and has done a lot of good. His charity foundation is trying to end polio in the world. So you see your bible is lying when it says those that say there is no go do only bad and never do good. Bill Gates has helped humanity more than your imaginary godand his men of god. Name one Christian that has contributed over 90 percent of his wealth to the course of charity?

Have your empty head so soon forgotten the questions you had asked?

I have always known you were a west of time and bandwidth.

Rubbish!

. Pls read the nonsense you typed and laugh at your stupidity

truthislight: Empty head!

How will you know, you not this:

"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good." (Psalm 14:1).
..........................................

. Again the bible clearly lies when it says those that say there is no god have done abominable works and non does good. You know Bill Gates right? He is an atheist that says god does not exist, he is a very honorable many as attested by many including Christians , he runs the biggest charity organization foundation in the world and has done a lot of good. His charity foundation is trying to end polio in the world. So you see your bible is lying when it says those that say there is no go do only bad and never do good. Bill Gates has helped humanity more than your imaginary godand his men of god. Name one Christian that has contributed over 90 percent of his wealth to the course of charity?

Have your empty head so soon forgotten the questions you had asked?

I have always known you were a west of time and bandwidth.

Rubbish!

. Pls read the nonsense you typed and laugh at your stupidity

bolaino: yeah talking about magic, there's an american magician by the name of criss angel, he walks on water and he levitates, and believe u me, it's no trick, u need to watch it for urself and believe, so what do u have to say about something like that?

. He uses tricks, go to YouTube and type the secrets of magic unveiled, you will see how all the tricks he uses were exposed including his tricks of levitation , walking on water and dividing people into two and much more. Everything is there on YouTube .

ijawkid: If that is your definition of being materialistic then the scriptures do not have a problem with you......

I was considering a materialistic spirit from the bibles perspective..........



You know the bolded is also a speculation??....

Who has ever objectively shown that there is another life apart from this?. . .

ijawkid: Being no part of this world does not mean the world does not matter........this earth/world would remain forever.....so it matters to me........what Jesus encouraged was leading a balanced life....BALANCE bro..........

I want you to come to the niger delta and see what materialism has caused to the niger delta people......oil theft has destroyed land, and aquatic life.........the individuals engaged in this act are not developing the niger delta region....our politicians who are stealing day and night are not improving the lives of anybody...infact it would take one who isn't BIG eyed(materialistic) to make the niger delta and nigeria at large to move forward......

By being materialistic i am talking about the material world and everything in it as opposed to a spiritual world(after life). . . .I am not talking about wealth aquisation. . .

people can solve problems devoid of the drive to make money at any cost.........

And mind you:::...the world matters to me..because I hope to live on it forever.....

I was never talking about money by the material world and how it is the only world we know so we must hold the view that it matters and most live in it and jettison the view that we are not part of it but part of some spiritual world that remains a mythical construct. . . .life most not be eternal for it to matter of be meaningful. . .It is human greed and selfhsiness that makes him want to live forever, as such he created the eternal life idea and keeps feeding it, we fear so much that death ends it all so we keep creating after life concepts like heaven, reincarnation etc. . .just to satisfy our fears. . .

Your first comment sounded like God encouraged his people to be materialistic..........making contributions to build a house of worship did not require servants of God to be materialistic........God encouraged hard work and not a materialistic spirit.........

God required material things. . .A temple building is a material thing, no?. . . .I am talking about material things as opposed to spiritual things. . . .

Did Jesus go looking for trouble or were the money changers and charlatans the ones looking for trouble??.........

Why should Jesus have allowed them do what ever they were doing right there in the house of God?.............need I remind you that Jesus' action at the temple was a fulfillment of a prophecy recorded by the psalmist??.....Jesus did not go around with whips flogging each and every sinner......abi??......

If they had slapped jesus as he was beating them would have have turned the other cheek?. . . .

You might as well chide godly parents who spank there kids for incessantly engaging in wrongdoings

Nope. . . .I won't. . .

Ofcourse you do know the mind of Christ.....you've been kicking against it......

Really?. . . .

Oboy you know even understand wetin Jesus mean........

Now I knw why you guys have abandoned the scriptures....

You've got absolutely no knowledge of scriptural truths.......

What did Jesus mean when he told his disciples to keep running from one city to another to aviod persecution
in his name and that before they finish going round the towns of israel he will return back to the earth?. . .What did he mean he told the chief preist before he was handed over to be crucified that soon the chief priest will see him coming down with power and glory from the clouds on his return?. . .

The world could end any way.....the scriptures too never specifically say how the world would end or by what means...it could even be by asteroids.............

The main point is this world(not the physical earth) would soon meet its end....

The planet will be no more in the distant future, the sun is growing and will go so big someday that it will destroy all life on it, if it explodes the planet will be fried and dissappear some day in the distant future. . .An asteriod can hit the planet and end all life on it. . .Anything can happen. . . .Scientist are now thinking of ways to move the earth away and shift its orbit away from asteriods and the sun. . .They are trying to figure ways to move the planet away from the sun so that as it grows its heat will not destroy the earth and life on it. . .if the feel life does not matter and everything will end soon they won't be holding such thoughts, would they?. . .

bolaino: On my journey to self enlightenment, I have had lots of experiences both good and bad, before I became an agnostic I practiced lots of religions that deal with occult mysticism, and I gathered a knowledge or two about the supernatural, So my stance on the issue of supernatural occurrences is that of the affirmative, I believe in supernatural occurrences. As I have experienced them first hand.

What made me create this topic is the growing trend of atheists who go about with the assertion that there are no metaphysical happenings, that everything can be explained and that the things that can not be explained now, are probably things that science has not fully comprehended and will soon demystify in the nearest future, I could understand this stance coming from an atheist who lives in the western world, but I will not take it from an atheist who was born and bred up here in Africa, Nigeria especially,

My reasons being we as africans have one way or the other seen first hand or heard (from eye witness accounts) numerous tales of things beyond human comprehension, from either seeing unbroken eggs in glass bottles to seeing lots of crucifixes in glass bottles, how where these things made to happen? It's beyond human comprehension, and like so many other numerous tales of supernatural experiences heard from friends and family,

So it baffles me when I see atheists like Ooman, muskeeto, regynius, logicboy, ezme, Rossikk, and the rest of the bandwagon, try to give rational explanation for issues beyond their comprehension, I'm not saying that we should continue to chase shadows like ezme would say, no, but we should give an open mind to issues that try to enlighten us on the occurrence of metaphysical happenings,

Thank God for science, now we are able to explain many of the things our ancestors regarded as supernatural, now we know that these were just natural occurrences Caused by mother nature, but the truth still remains that there are things even the almighty science will never be able to give good explanations for.

So my fellow freethinkers, be objective in your discussions about the supernatural. But I would like to hear your opinions on this issue as well.

Most of the things people claim are supernatural events, are just natural events that can not be explained. . .Example we have magicains that use tricks to deceieve that they have supernatural abilities, but when they explain their tricks you discover that it is just some esoteric natural knowledge they used. . .

truthislight: mmmmmm!

This children in this forum sef!

If you had red further you will seen that i repeated that statement over and over and that i had ment "signified".

But rebels like you dont always apply thinking ability and that is why the book of Psalm says atheist are "fools".

Signify what?. . .You really do not know what you are saying. . . .

i dont have time for people like you that cant learn.

This topic has been handled on this forum over and over, but a "fool" according to Psalm cant learn.
Dont transfer your frustration from the other thread on "myopia" of atheism here.

Please, go to the "best religious section forum" thread sticked up there and read up on all that you posted since it has been addressed already.

Peace.

The problem is that you have not provided any meaningful objections to the verses i quoated. . .The topic has been disscused many times yet fools keep spinning what was written and refuse to accept it. . . .All what you are saying so far is that you disagree with the bible and the bible does not really mean what it says. . .Nothing has been addressed any where, all I see is people like you spinning things and other christians that accept the hell position actually pointing it out to you that is is biblical. . .Deny all you want but that is the position of the bible. . .

and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.Revelation 20:10

This signifies death in your wrapped thinking, eh?. . .interesting. . .

ijawkid: and who told you it is because persons were materialistic that is why planes,cars etc were made??......trying to solve problems or making work easier is not the same with been materialistic.......wrong??

I consider to be maretialistic. . .We can disagree on that but I consider it to be such. . .My main point is that the belief that this life does not matter and we are not of this world can never make any society grow and develop. . . .

God provided for his people...and told them to pay tithe back then in order for the priests to be taken care of...God does not use the belongings of his people for anything..God does not need money...the monies was for the less priviledged,the priests who could not work or who had no farm lands.........you forgot to get to the root as to why contributions were made back then........

God needs money. . .He needed it to build his temple and told people to contribute towards it. . .Its written in the bible. . .

You do know you are lying...would you say the USA has never embarked on wars knowing they would gain financially from such wars??........

I never said what you are implying. ..of course most of their wars was for material gain. . .

Imagine if the other persons doing the trampling had the mind of Christ would they trample on anyone in the first place...hope you know one who would be ready to turn the other cheek would not be ready to go looking for trouble.........

What exactly was the mind of christ. . .We were told that jesus went into the temple and started beating up the money changers when he saw them selling and corrupting the house of god. . .Why didnt he let them do what ever they were doing without beating them up?. . .It is actually not true that a person that will turn the other cheek can not go about looking for trouble. . .

If both the slapper and the one being slapped have the mind of Christ there would be no wars.......NO??........

What is the mind of christ?. . .

That doesn't mean the end would not come.....2000 years is just 2 days to GOD...........

If you do not understand what Jesus meant by that statement all you can do is ask......

The words were clear, Jesus told chief priest that he will see him come from the clouds as he returns with glory. . .He told his disciples that they should run from one town to another when facing percecution in his name, before they finish running round all the towns of Israel he will return. . .Told the people speaking to him at that time that their generation will not pass before he returns...All these happened over 2000 years ago. . .The world will surely end some day. . .Life can end today if a very big asteriod falls into the earth or when the sun grows too big and explodes which it will some day in the very distant future. . .But the world will not end as the bible puts it. . .

ijawkid: And who ever said that this life does not matter??.....the Life was created by God

I think you must be mis-understanding Jesus' words.......the truth is to even gain everlasting life the life now has to matter to us a lot......what Jesus was emphasizing on was balance.........

True Christians can engage in problem solving but that should not amount to them been materialistic........

True christians engage in day to day activities to help mankind but we make sure that those pursuits do not lead us to being materialistic.......Jesus himself solved problems.......but how did he live his Life??.......we all know...

See these inspired words from paul...

1 corinthians 7:31

---------_______________________________
31 those who use the things of the world, as if
not engrossed in them. For this world in its
present form is passing away.
______________________________
New American Standard Bible
(©1995)
and those who use the world, as
though they did not make full use
of it; for the form of this world is
passing away.

______________________________
.........the world now is just relatively better......

Wait until nuclear war heads are unleashed and you and your computer find yourselves under the ground......

Let me tell you;;;

Man does not know where he is heading to......here today gone tomorrow........

What you see today you might not see tomorrow.........

I just can't stand it when you tell me that Jesus' view points on materialistic pursuits isn't practical anymore........it would always be practical.....

By being materialistic I was referring to a better world and a better life in general, not greed and selfishness. . .

And this Life is not the only life we have...........everyone has the hope of living forever imbued in them..........

This is the ONLY life we KNOW we have. . .Any other life after this remains ONLY a speculation that has not been shown and can never be shown to be true. . . .

ijawkid: You forget that during and before the time of Jesus we had rich fellas.....even before Jesus came solomon who himself was rich had through inspiration warned against materialism......so don't tell me things have changed.....knowing that the desire to be materialistic has always been in man is enough reason why you should agree that Jesus' words can never be out-dated.........you made a false statement that nations went about waging war or killing people over nothing....some nations went to war because they were materialistic too...........na lie?......

Sure, I am not saying that materialims is everything, like everything it has it disadvantages, but it is part of what has made use develop and improved our standard of living. . .Cars, aiplanes, moble phones etc. . .All these things make our lives much easier and less hectic than when people were wriding on donkeys and horses. . .Now you can travel to another continet in hours unlike back in the days that it took years and months. . .Most of the wars back in the days were actually over nothing. . .Even the god of the bible requires material things. . .He tells people to donate things to him and offer things to him. . .He tells people they rob him becauser they refuse to give him part of their income as tithe. . .he tells people to donate material things to the building od his temple etc. . .The bible is full of god telling people to give him materail things and promising to bless them if they did. . .

Your USA would engage in some wars just to get rich....na lie??.......

Nope

The admonition to flee from materialism would always stand the test time my bro......

Nope, it won't. . .

If Nations heed Jesus' words to turn the other cheek would we experience wars again and nuclear threats every now and then??.....please answer me......would we have and vikings if people actually learnt the principle of been quick to resolve problems ammicably rather than resort to reprisals??.......

We would experince more wars. . .Rebellion is what lead to the end of the roman empire that persecuted the people during the time of Jesus. . .The people kept turning the other cheek and they were trampled upon by the romans. ..Rebellion is what ended the roman empire and destroyed it. . .If people know that they will get away with trampling on you they will continue to trample on you but when they know they won't get away with it they will not try to trample on you. . .If I slap you and you turn the other cheek , I will slap you again, but if i know that you will slap me back with equal or more force, i might not slap you at all, I will call you and we will talk and settle our issues. . .

Once again your views would ever remain like this since you do not believe an end is imminent........I believe an end is approaching,so my views would always be different from yours and so the views of Jesus.......

This view that the end is near dangerous. . .After all Jesus told many people during his stay on earth that he will come during their life time. . .Its over 2000 years and all the people are dead. . .

ijawkid: And the same materialism is what is crumbling there economy.......

The disadvantages of materialism by far outweights its advantages........

people who are not satisfied with what they have but going all out to chase material things at any cost has never been advantageous........

If people applied Jesus' teaching we would not have thieving politicians,you wouldn't have drug pushers........the american economy would not have landed in any economic crisis.......

And what more??......the poor would never lack..........


And who told you Jesoul doesn't live up to the words of Jesus??.......

Let me explain my point. . .The view that this life does not matter and that people are to pay no attention to it because they are not part of this world is actually dangerous. . .

This life matters and it is the only life that WE KNOW exist, as such we should try to understand it and try to solve most of the challenges it poses, instead of just beliving that it is just a test or a passage to another life somewhere that has never been shown to exist in reality. . .

If were are to take the morally rephrhensible approach that this life does not mattere but it is something to endure and manage because we are not of this world then, cures to diesease will not be found, scientific advancement will not be made, how to better the society and improve on our well being will not be pursued, solutions to the many problems we face in this world will not be found. . .I was watching doscivery science a year ago and a guy was trying find a solution to devastaing effects of hurricanes. . .He found out that hurricanes can be made to dissappear or their effect can be reduced if the tempreture of the region they form can be altered. . .He is now devicing a way to actualize this. . .If he succeeds, humanity will be save and the threat and destruction of hurricanesd will be greatly reduced. . .If the scientist was a christian and held the morally rephrehensible view of life that Jesoul is espousing, then he would not have cared, he would have just been thing how long before we all die and go home. . .

He would have believed he was not from this world as such he is not supposed to be involved in anything of the world. . .Recently the USA is now trying to send scientist to land on asteriods. . .asteriods are a great danger we face, if a big one lands in the world it can end all life here on earth, scientist are now looking at ways to stop them from falling on earth. . .If the they held the views of Jesoul, they would have not bothered after all god created everything an he send disater on every body, people should not be bothered about the world, they should just hang on because it will soon end and this life does not matter. . .

The belief that this life matters is why we have democracy, instead of preistly and monarchy. . .Its the reason knowledge has greatly increased. . .It is the reason for all the invention we have, it is the reason why the world is actually becoming a better place. . .back during the time og Jesus the average life span of humans was just 35 years. . .Wars were the other of the day. . .Now things have changed so much that a black man is now the head of a white majority nation which happens to be the greatest nation on earth. . During the time of Jesus, blacks were mostly slaves of whites, any where they interacted. . .

We can only improve ourselves, our lives and our environments if we believe that this life is all we have and it really matters. . .That way we will find solutions to diseases, better our economies, we will study about the laws of nature and find out how they affect us as humans so that we can find ways to alter them to our own benefit, gave every body a chance and fair shot at life etc. . .What exactly was Jesus teaching with regards to a better life here on earth?. . .The only teaching of Jesus that I agree to was the golden rule of do unto others as you will want them to do unto you, but that teaching or statement was made long before jesus was born. . .A chinese philospher(Confucius) said the same thing about 400 years before Jesus was born. . .The view that this life does not matter is reprehensible, because it is the ONLY life that we know. . .

turnstoner: The only reason am quoting you is to make sure you can't modify the absolute nonsense you wrote above

What impudence

What absolute ignorance

I have always known that most religious posters are not worth debating. you are the epitome of such.

I did not reply him because I just didn't know what to make of the nonsense he wrote up there. . .

The teaching about hell is biblical to say other wise is to lie to yourself. . .

ijawkid: How does Jesus being a messiah amount to him not being humble?......

It seems you don't know what to say or how to refute the words of Jesus....

Has materialism helped our useless country?........

Materialism has helped a lot of countries. . .Example, some countries in europe and America. . .Materialism like everything has its disadvantages. . .Tell me how as the belief or teaching that this life and the world does not matter at all, that we are just passing visitors who should not be bothered about the things of the world. helped any country or society at all?. . .How has this sad view of life helped any body?. . .Even Jesoul that said is DOES NOT LIVE her life that way. . .

ijawkid: Wrong!!....materialism is what has made the world as debasing as it is.........

Life mattered both in the past and now that is why Jesus' words transcends generations.........

Even person§ who care less about God can sinÇerely tell you the dÉ-merits of materialism...I just don't know why you've chosen to see no wrong with it just because the teachings of Jesus kicks Àgainst it.......

In Nigeria and outside nigeria mÀterialism would always be a bane....it drags any Çount®y baÇk ward and deprives the less priviledged of any opportunity for survival....that iÑsatiable desire for wealth is what has led to our(nigeria) having thieves as politicians,militant§,Çharlatans in churches,yahoo yahoo boys etc...........

I hope you do know why the economies of various countries today are crashing..No??........greed and the quest to get richer !!!!....!!!!!!.

Jesus' words would always stand the test of time..........

The world has never been as peaceful as it is now. . .Things used to be so bad back in the days, read your history book, even your bible says it all. Back in the days people just go about killing each other over nothing. Wars were a daily occurance, a stronger nation can just wake up and enslave its neighbours, their cities were built with walls all round them. . .People were always at war with each other, slavery was acceptable and normal, violence against women was also acceptable, violence against kids(stoning them to death) for wrong doing. . .Human sacrifice etc. . .There was too much vviolence in the past. . .

During the time of Jesus the average life span of the common man was about 30 years, violence was way too much. Israel was under a tyranical occupation. . .Now things have changed a lot. . .The desire for wealth is always being with man. . . And that is what has made man prosperous. . .Imagine if every body had this nonsensical view of life that it is all useless or that the world will end very soon. . .There wouldn't have been any meaningful development any where. . .

As for the teachings of Jesus standing the test of time , that it self is very false . . .Was it not Jesus that said if some one slaps you turn the other cheek?. . .His statement was made as a pacifist living under occupation. . .Can such a teaching stand the test of time in today's world?. . .

truthislight: The difference between a death cus by God and the one cause by a natural death is dignified by the word fire in the bible [/b]and it simply stand for an everlasting destruction/absolute, complete death without the possibility of a resurrection, since it is only God that can destroy both "body and soul"(that is in fire, so, fire symbolises that complete destruction by God)

Shut up you liar, where does the bible say so?. . .death dignified by fire is your own making the bible does NOT say so. . .Keep lying to your self. . .

Note that man cannot destroy both body and soul but only God.

So, fire is used to show that implication of a destruction by God, final and permanent death.

[b]Where in the bible the death is from God it is symbolise by fire.

Which bible?. . .You keep lying and making things up. . .

Matthew 25:41
"Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels

Does this not appear in your bible?. . .

Another one. . .

and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.Revelation 20:10

Clearly it says lake of fire where people will be tormented for ever and ever. . .Are you blind?. . .keep lying to yourself. . .

But a death not cause by God holds a prospect of a resurrection:

"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, " (John 5:28).
...............................................................................

What is this nonsense?. . .

Note "all".
There is a possibility for "all" to come back from a natural death whereas if the death was cause by God there is no coming back to life and that is signified by fire.

It shows the difference between the two types of death.

Even abstrct things that God wishes to remove is being said to be thrown into fire also = obliteration.

peace

You are a liar. . . Again from the bible. . .

If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It's better to enter eternal life with only one hand than to go into the unquenchable fires of hell with two hands. Mark 9:43

truthislight: "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was LIGHT." (Genesis 1:2-3).
.........................................................................................

Is your brain stump?

Cant you read? which light is that ^ in verse 3?

You left out verse 3 and went to verse 16 or more to make noise?

Where did the verse 3 light came from? Even befor every, any other thing was created?

I hate westing time with kids that cant think in addition to dishonesty. *sigh*


how can a reasonable person leave verse 3 statement and not take it into context and ran to verses in front and pick out random verses and build an elusive castle in the air?

Should we tear out verse 3 of Genesis from the bible?

The lies you have taken in has really punished you indeed and you are spining more lies to cover over the lies, even lying against me that i said what i never said .

What a restlessness!

You should better change your ways and have a breath of flesh air.

The bible does NOT say where the light came from, it only says god said let there be light and there was light and god divided the light into two, the light he called day and the darkness he called night. . .From here we can see that it talks about light appearing without any light source to claim the source of light is the sun is to LIE, because it was never stated. . .In some other parts of the bible (Revelation)it talks about a new earth with light without the sun. . .The bible clearly states that the sun was created on the fourth day of creation. . .

you see what i mean?

Where then did the light in verse 3 came from?

Next you will say that stars are falling from heaven to earth. lol.

The bible never said it came from the sun. . .It only said god created light and not the sun. . .By the way, what am I to do with the nonsense you said about angles being refered to as stars?. . .You are just arguing with no specific parameters. . .

so, when you go to verses 21,22 of chapter 2 and hear God talk about the creation of Eve after the seven days creation in chapter 1 what do you say? That creation had not ended?

See:

"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." (Genesis 1:27).
...............................
The point is that the book of Genesis Gives a statement that overlap each other for detail.

The TRUTH is that the two accounts of creation in genesis were NOT written by the same person and at the same time. . .The account in genesis chapter two was actually written before the account in genesis one. The account in genesis one is a rabbinical commentry on genesis chapter 2. . .But when the bible was complied, both were put together as one. . .

see.

Even after the seven days creation in chapter 1 came this:

"And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof." (Genesis 2:19).

After this in chapter 1:

"And to every beast of the earth, and to every "fowl" of the air, " (Genesis 1:30).
...................................................................................
What is fowl creation doing in chapter 2? Have fowl not been created already in chapter 1?

The point here is that the oder of creation of things you wish to criticise can not be taken in isolation without the other details.

That ^ is why you critics are in the bushes = foolish mans land.

It is you blind believers that are foolish, you just take the mythical narratives of ancient people as word of some imaginary god with out trying to know how they actually came about. . .The two creation accounts were written by two different people but later put together as one when the hebrew bible was complied. . .Go and read up about the history of the bible and how it was put together. . .The book of genesis has so many authors. . .Even christian scholars that are christians and have studied it (like professor Willam Lane Craig) agree that the book of genesis has many authors. . .Such people will tell you that the creation accounts are allegories, because they know the history of how it came about, I am talking about christians not some unbelievers, people that actually know so much about bible history and how it was complied and put together. . .

are those ^ inside planet earth? Smh for you.
How shallow!

You didn't see where it says there were placed inside the firmament to give light to the earth?. . . or is the genesis creation account only refering to the creation of the earth?. . if yes why does it specifically say that the sun, moon and stars where all created on the fourth day of creation, you just don't want to address it. you keep jumping from one place to another. . .I repeat on which day of creation were the sun moon and stars created according to the 7 days creation account of the bible?. . .

thank you for coming round the update.
Please, remain updated.

The ignorance is alarming.

You even thrives on sentiment:

It is actually you that is ignorant, any body that knows anything about how the bible was put together will tell you that the genesis on and two creation accounts were written by two difefrent people over two different tie periods. . .Go and study the history of the hebrew bible, only an ignorant person will say the nonsense you are saying. . .I know its people like you that believe the bible just came from heaven or the books were written by moses,jewish tradition is what ascribed the authorship to moses, the books were NOT written by moses, he never claimed authorship any where, they were written in thrid person narrative, even the last book talked about how moses died, there is no way moses can write a book and tell people how he died in the book. . .genesis was written by many authors. . .

and this:



what part of the argument are you addressing there ^?



smh for you.


For a book "fill with falsity", you are doing a very poor job.

I had expected you to do better.

Please, produce the "false hood" my friend.

Dont be ignorant!

You were just jumping up and down and dancing all over the place. . .I remmeber you stating that the bible does not talk about hell. . .When I showed you verse that did, you just dug your head in the sand and keep singing to your self that the bible does not say hell is a palce of punishment, bla bla bla. . .That is the same nonsense you are doing here, trying to say that the genesis creaton account in verse 1 only talks about the creation of the earth. . .You are too deluded. . .You keep denying what is written inside the bible, you even deny that it talks about hell as a place of eternal punishment for humans all because of the sect you belong to. . .LOL

ijawkid: Prosperity backed up with contentment my bro...as usual what ever the scriptures say is thrash to you,.......if you ever believed in eternal life you would support Jesus' words.......Jesus' words help christians to be balanced with what ever the world has to offer...........

What you fail to realize is that the prosperity gospel drives one to materialism and greed .........

The prosperity gospel is what is actually killing nigeria,rather than make it develop...

Firstly, when the stories about Jesus were written the people were under Roman occupation. . .Life was misrable to them and they were expecting a messiah to come and rescue them from the hands of the Romans, hence the view that life didn't matter and the hope for a better life after this one when they die. . .Some of the gospels that didn't make it or were not selected as part of the biblical cannon paints a better picture. . .Masterialism is actually what is driving this world, it leads to competition which leads to a better economy and a better standard of living. . . .

The claim that this life is of no value and just something not to bother with but a passage to an after life that remains a myth is pathetic and morally reprehensible. . .

JeSoul: If I may interject briefy...intriguing replies - especially from Obadaiah.

A carnal mind looks around the world and wonders how he can better his life circumstances - and he chases after it. A spiritual mind looks around the world and wonders how much longer? because he knows he does not belong here, and he chases after God. Christians should not despise nor occupy themselves with the vain, fleeting affairs of this world. We are here for a short time and as such should make the most of every opportunity while keeping the big picture in perspective - life is a breath compared to eternity.

Godbless!

This is really pathetic view of life and is actually one of the reasons religious societies never make any meaningful development. . .Why develop or contribute anything to the world, when you believe that the world will end during your life time or because you believe it does not matter at all and is of no importance. . .People prefer to live their lives thinking it doesn't matter while believing a mythical after life that no one has ever or can ever show exist is of more importance. . .Such view of life makes life meaningless and it is truly pathetic. . I actually prefer the prosperity gospel advocates that will tell you that this life is very important and as such you have to enjoy every bit of it and prosper in all you do because prosperity is also part of godliness. . .This "we are just passing by and shouldn't care about this world , because we are not a part of it" brand of christianity is pathetic. . .It leads to nothing but misery. . .

truthislight: get the verses and your argument right please.



the word "heaven" has two conotation:
1. The Expanse above the earth
2. The throne of God.

Creation in Genesis is about earth and its expanse.

Sure. . .

we are talking about earth creation and the birds of heaven and their heaven.



"every thing on earth", yes.

creation on earth is what i read in Genesis and that it was covered in darkness:

"And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light." (Genesis 1:2-3).
..........................................................................................
What i can see there ^ is God saying let there be light. I did not read the planet sun there.

And i dont know where the argument that "God created plants befor there was light" came from.

How do you read?. . .didn't you see the 7 days account of how everything was supposedly created?. .

i understand it to mean the divisions of the light for days and seasons, just like verse three(3) said: let there be light.

If you want/wish to see creation of sun and moon there, good for you.

That I can open my window blinds for sun rays to enter my room as light instead of electric light does not mean i just "created" the sun.

What is this drivel?. . .Only that according to the bible the sun, moon and stars were made on the fourth day of creation. . .lie and deny all you want but is is there. . .The 7 day creation account tells you how god created the earth and everything in it and explains how each came about in a 7 day account of creation. . .The fourth day was when he made the sun, moon and stars. . .

Gen1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light(sun) to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night(moon): he made the stars also.
Gen 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Gen 1:1 8 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

The were created on the fouth days and place in the firmament to give light upon the earth. . .if you don't like that part , you can tear it off from your bible. . .

what? How do you read?
*sigh*

You are actually supposed to ask yourself that question, because its obvious you can't read. . .If i may ask, on what day of creation was the sun, moon and stars made according to the 7 day creation account?. . .

where did you get that ^? Smh for you.

Where else but from the bible, i just gave u the verse. . .You can tear it off from your bible, since its obvious you don't want it to be there. . .

the bible is the word of Yahweh.
I dont know what you are talking about.

Sure, just as the koran is the word of Allah the ONLY true god and creator of the universe. . .The bible is just the mythical writings of the jews about their imaginary god idea. . .

i mean that the Education was about Adam and the earth he lived in and not astrology.

What has astrology to do with the fall of man and the coming of the massaiah? Who is interested in the Demonic activities of astrology that Yahweh asked the Jews to keep clear?
*sigh*

Who is talking about astrology?. . .

yes, Yahweh educated the Jews about a lot of things including "hereafter" and not that the jews came up with ideas that is based on the traditions of men and Demons.

Ohh really, yahweh "educated" them?. . .that;s interesting. . .

where? How do you read?

No wander!

you build an error birth in it and belief in it? Smh for you.



yes, the creator is in a better place to know what happened at death.

What "false hood" does the bible tell about the after life? Please bring it fourth and stop making basedless accusations.

ohh, I forgot that you are one of those Jehovah witness that does not believe in the conventional christian heaven and hell mythical nonsense. . Goof for you. . .I remember you telling me that nothing like hell exist in some thread some weeks ago. . .

is that ^ ignorance?

Are the angels not called "stars" in the bible?

Stars falling to the earth means satan or his demons driven from heaven to the earth befor their being destroyed.



that is a lie.
I dont think you are a honest person, since you wish to misrepresent the bible here to deceive people.
Astrology is a no go area for Worshpers of Yahweh.




what? Me?
Why are you lying guy? Lol.

I did not argree on such ^ o!

But with your comprehension level here, am not surprised.




that is not under contention here men.

Meanwhile, Please, state the "falsehood" in the bible please and stop jumping up and down.

All this your "feel good story" is not helping your case here.
Peace.

What ever rocks your both, Jehovah witness buddy. . .

Deep Sight: Excellent and sensible post. i am not christian and the bible is not my creed, but i cannot get over the vacant st.upidity of those who choose to read Genesis in a literal sense.

And who told you that is was NOT written to be read literally?. . .Genesis is not supposed to be read literally, but the crucifiction of Jesus and and other tales are supposed to be read literally?. . .The guy was just lying through his teeth to make scientific observation agree with the genesis creation myth. . .Its dishonest and pathetic. . .