₦airaland Forum

striktlymi: Can you my good sir, show that heaven and hell ARE mythical places?

**Grabs a 'king-sized' pop-corn waiting for Mazaje to do the impossible**

What can be asserted without evidence deserve to be dismissed without evidence. . .The burden of proof is not on me. . .If you insist that heaven exist then its up to you to show me. . .There is NO evidence what so ever to show that human consciousness survives bodily death. . .Heaven and hell are mythical religious creations, just like the idea of reincarnation. . .

striktlymi: The above is empty man! just empty!!

Its not. . .

You just succeeded in telling us your view about the ish man and it does not constitute proof of the non-existence of God. I also have own opinion on the matter...

It is not my opinion but a statement of fact. . .All gods and religions are man made, you can not show that any god exist on its own independent of what men have written and stated about what ever form and concept of god they chose to invent. . Some invented many gods(polytheist) others one god(monotheist) all with different concepts how these god they created will guide and help them. . .Men created all the gods that is why we have different gods and different religions, some gods are alive because men chose to believe in them(jesus, allah, vishnu etc) others are dead because no one believes in them any more(zeus, ra, thor, sol etc).This is a statement of fact not an opinion. . .

Okay, cool! Now you are permitted to indoctrinate your child with the above but some other parent is not permitted to share his/her faith with his/her child?

Seems like double standards to me man!

Not indoctrinating any child with anything, just telling a child the truth and s statement of fact. . .Can ANY god be shown to exist on its own independent of human, stories, human writing, human societal acceptance and what every human chose to say or attribute to such a god or gods?. . .Can you show that any god exist on its own?. . .if yes point to such a god. . .The fact that you are here telling me about the existence of a god proves my point. . .

striktlymi: This is very interesting...

When the child asks you how you know these 'entities' are mythical, do you now say:

"I am your father, I know what is best for you, I say those entities are mythical so you must accept it"

That sounds like doing what you accuse 'others' of doing.

Since when did you turn into Iheidinobi?. . .Well, to believe there are "divine messages" to begin with is simply unproven wishful thinking. All religions are inventions of men that is why we have many religions all claiming divine invention, but history has shown them to all be the works of men and their various superstitions. . .

ALL religions have been proven to be human messages and human ideas that were inspired by human minds and written/printed by human hands, and therefore they do not have the qualification to be called "divine" or supernatural in any way, shape, or form. All religions are nothing but the ideas and cultures of humans. . .

The concept of "divinity" is a concept created and developed by human minds out of their imagination and remains a fictional production until proven otherwise. I will tell my child and provide him with evidence that all gods are man made. . .For example 3000 years ago there was no god called Jesus because that god idea had not yet been invented. . .2000 years ago the god called allah never existed because he had not yet been conceived yet. . .The most powerful god in ancient egypt 4000 years ago was Ra(The sun). . Now that god is dead because people no longer believe in it. .


In conclusion, to answer your question, I will tell my child that all gods are man made and do NOT exist in reality. . .They only exist in the minds of those that accept that hypothesis, as such no god can be shown to exist on its own independent of human, stories, human writing, human societal acceptance and what every human chose to say or attribute to their god because humans created all the gods they worship. . .Gods do not exist in reality, only the god idea is what exist. . .

striktlymi: Is there something wrong in training a child?

There is everything wrong in training a child to believe or hold on to mythical entities that do not exist in reality. . .

While some christians are allowing musims to worship in their churches, some very powerful muslims imams are calling for the destruction of all churches in the arabic peninsula. . .

ijawkid: .........absence of heaven and GOD is really a tough one......I would have to be brainless to toe your path of oblivion.......

You guys aren't dealing with reality,you're just CONFUSED and REBELLIOUS....when you're tired you can come searching for GOD again.............

Can you show that heaven and hell are NOT mythical places?. . .

Up Bayen. . .

Ihedinobi: ^^

What or which Jesus saves? There is only one Jesus that saves.

Ask those that believe in the Jesus fable and hold different ideas about wether he is god himself or just the son of god. . .There are so many of them here on nairaland. . .You can visit any of the topics and ask them. . .

Ihedinobi: I also said "...or are wrong about what Jesus is", you know. It's that tough to actually read my posts?

Anyhow, if the Jesus a person is putting their trust in is something different from the Jesus that saves, how are they true believers?

Who is wrong?. . .They those that hold both positions also believe that Jesus saves. . .

Ihedinobi: Ok. So now I'm cunning too

Well, see if you can follow my reasoning and see why the question is necessary.

If I say to someone that I believe in Jesus Christ and they've never heard of Him, they'll automatically ask Who He is and why I do. If I say to them that He's the Son of God and that I believe in or trust Him with my life because as the Son of God He has the power to take care of anyone who entrusts their life to Him and insist that even though He's the Son of God, He's not Himself God, I have described the Jesus I believe in to be something particular.

Now, imagine that someone else meets this same person I just conversed with and in the course of discussion tells them that they believe in Jesus Christ. Our mutual friend will probably exclaim, "oh, I just heard about him from so-and-so. He's the Son of God Who isn't God Himself, right?" But this someone else says no, that the Jesus he's talking about is definitely God Himself being the Son of God as well.

Now, our mutual friend will not be blamed if he assumes that we are speaking of two different Jesus's, one who although He is Son of God is not Himself God, and the other who is God Himself being Son of God. The other assumption he can make is that one or both of us don't really know what this Jesus person is.

Now, if somebody is not sure or is wrong about what Jesus is, what exactly is it that he claims to trust or believe in when he says that he believes in Jesus Christ? In other words, how is one a true believer in Jesus Christ when they don't know what Jesus is or what the nature of Jesus is considering that one trusts Jesus because of what He is or what His Nature is?

I hope you get it now.

Who exactly is not sure?. . .Another straw man. . .I kno many christians that believe Jesus to be the son of god alone and they are very sure of their position and to them the bible affirms it. . .Others believe that Jesus is the son of god and god himself. . .They are also very sure of their position and the bible affirms it as well as far as they are concerned. . .There are lots of pages of such debates between christians here on nairaland so what exactly is your point?. . .That they all do not know who Jesus is?. . .

striktlymi: What you just succeeded in doing is show the different perceptions I mentioned before...again I repeat, same being but diverse perceptions.

You haven't shown that its the same being. . You just said so... .

striktlymi: Hallo Mazaje,

Now tell me, are you sure you read my post? Do you really understand what I meant when I said: "are different ways of looking at the same thing"? If you do then you would realize that the question you asked is irrelevant.

Everyone who believes in 'God' have their view about him or it. What you are asking is similar to saying that I should show how Muhammads version of God is the same with the Christian version.

Perceptions defer but I believe we all refer to the same being.

This is demonstrably false, in that a muslim does NOT believe in Jesus as god, a muslim does NOT believe in the god sheeva or god vishnu. . .To the muslim there is no god but Allah. . .The attributes of the said gods are all different, the poly-theist and the monotheist have very different concepts of god. . .The beings are NOT the same. . .You can ONLY claim that the beings are said to do the same thing, that is create the universe, but their attributes are completely different. . For example according to christian theism we are created in god's image, to a muslim that is sacriligiou because allah did not create any man in his own image, allah said so in the koran. . .

Ihedinobi: If it was my question you attempted to answer, I confess that I fail to see what your answer is.

Let me rephrase it in case that might help: if one does not know who or what someone or something is, how can they know what to trust or believe in it for? How can I say, for instance, that I believe in the aerodynamic principle of buoyancy when I don't know what it is?

Edited to correct a statement.

Firstly, you just can't help it but show your cunning ways, right?. . .All you are good at is mischaracterizing people's position, making things up and running commentary on them. . .The question you are asking as nothing to do with what I stated so I do not even know what you are on about. . .Where did I say that christians do not know Jesus?. . .This was what I wrote and you quoted it yourself. . .

mazaje:

How has the holy spirtit helped believing christians to better understand their religion?. . .So far many true believers are yet to agree on the nature of Jesus , if he is the same as god or just the son of god alone. . .Where is the holy spirit to help the true believers settle this dispute?

I said many true believers are yet yo agree on the nature of Jesus(is he god the son of god alone, or is he god and god's son at the same time). . .I did NOT say they do not know who Jesus is, disagreeing about something and not knowing that thing are two very different things. . .Asking about not knowing who Jesus is, is your own making, so provide your own answers to the question you are posing, since nobody asked that any where. . .

striktlymi: It also depends on what you mean by other gods!

I believe firmly that apart from these spirits I mentioned, there are a number of people (relious, scientists etc) who see God in different light but we all are basically talking about the same God.

I believe the God of the muslims, Christians, Deist, the one referred to as the first cause, creator, etc are different ways of looking at the same thing.

The only difference is how we choose to view this same God.

So Jesus is the same with oneness of infinity(Deist god)?. . .Can you show how they are the same?

This is only a feel good narrative because it is not real. . .

mantraa: This the reality of what awaits the Christian child.
Watch this beautiful short video. Welcome to this world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJrqLV4yeiw

This here is the REAL thing. . .Nice video mantraa

Ihedinobi: So how is one a true believer in Christ without knowing the nature of the Christ that they believe in?

Because there are different natures of Jesus christ each supported by the bible. . .To some Jesus christ is ONLY the son of god ,, while to others he is the son of god and god himself . . .There is NO agreement on this. . .Every body just decides to god with the nature he wants to go with. . .So what is the basic nature of Jesus? is he the son of god alone or is he god himself?. . .There is no agreement on this among the body of Jesus (believers) . . .

musKeeto: Who be Adam and Eve?

Mythical characters talked about in the bible. . .

Sal C: Why not? What's wrong whit it or do you think the concept of God is something you can just sit in your kitchen and comprehend?.Sorry God is beyond the layman's simple comprehension. You may not agree with me but that's the simple truth. You need the inspiration of the Holy spirit to better understand God.

How has the holy spirtit helped believing christians to better understand their religion?. . .So far many true believers are yet to agree on the nature of Jesus , if he is the same as god or just the son of god alone. . .Where is the holy spirit to help the true believers settle this dispute?

How I wish baseless superstitions can be eradicated in Nigeria. . .Not religion but baseless superstitions that permeates our society. . .

^^

I TIRE!

mumumugu: he said due to contradictions in the bible, God doesnt exist. I just showed him an xample of how a human being contradict himself. And yet lives


God changes. Human changes.everything changes.every body changes. Does it prove their none existant

the bible says god is the same yesterday today and for ever, no?. . .What is all this god changes all about?. . .

striktlymi: Now you just made me laugh!

Thanks for the kind gesture!

You are welcome

tobechi74: in 2003 , obj called atiku a good man.in 2005 , he called atiku a bad mad. Does it mean obasanjo and atiku dont exit.

Are you comparing this drivel to what logicboy wrote?. . .

striktlymi: Good evening Tobe,

I don't think you need bother whether anyone agrees with you or not...it is only too glaring that anyone who says there is no God is professing his/her own act of faith.

You are yet to show that any god exist in the first place, the idea of god does not require any faith to believe that it is a false idea. . .

Yooguyz: raise the dead...ugh? My friend i laugh at you...and "comment my reserve"

NO body that has been dead and buried has ever been raised back to life any where in the world, you are lying if you claim it has ever happend. . .

Image123: ^
when folks meditate day and night on confused commentaries of nl members instead of investing even half that time on the bible itself and on prayers. Every sule, emeka and ojo's thought are taken in especially when its vociferous. Frequency of idea is mostly mistaken for intelligence.

People have meditated on the bible and that lead them to have over 33,000 different sects of christianity, no?. . .The young earth creationist, old earth cfreationist, those that believe intithers, non tithers, those that believe in hell as a permanent lafe of fire for sinners, those that do not, those that believe in the rapture those that do not, those that believe in trinity and those that do not all read from the same bible, no?. . .If there is anything like the holy spirit there wil be a universally acceptabl;e christian doctrine. .But like anything that is man made all this division, personal opinions and intepretations are all norlam with anything that was invented by man. . .Keep on deluding your self. . .

[b]enilove:[/b]You read about Abraham,but did not read about how the red sea was divided ,for hours ,by God to make a way of escape for the children of Israel to escape. The bible also tells us that the Egyptians perished in the red sea. And for once, the Egyptians never came out to dispute this incidence.

The exodus is a myth it never happened, go ask the Jews. . .A lot of them know its all ammyth that never happened in reality. . .

frosbel: Truth stands secure , the heathen may bark , yell, scream and go off on mouth foaming convulsions and throw their endless tantrums, it negates not the truth one iota.

Jesus sits on the right hand of his father until his enemies are made his foot stool in a complete and final fashion.

We need to pity these wretches and not be angry with them.

This response really had my laughing out loud. . .Religion is TRULY a VERY big delusion. . .

Pastor Olu T: So what do you call fact, because it does not make sense to you?

Jesus PROMISED those that believe in him the ability to do much more that what they said he did according to the story written about him. . . .No christian can do any of the things he was written to have done(raise the dead, walk on water , turn water into wine, heal amputees etc) talk more of doing more than he was said to have done because the story is a myth and that is the FACT. . . .

Pastor Olu T: So you think?

So is the fact. . .

Ihedinobi: By the same token, if He didn't exist, we wouldn't be here having this discussion. Have you ever seen people discussing the inexistence of brujibjal?

If the fact of speaking in defence of the existence of God proves that He really doesn't, then speaking for His inexistence also proves that He really does.

And why would I want to prove a wet dream wrong? You're free to claim whatever you please and I'm free to ignore it without suggesting by so doing that I am incapable of proving it wrong. Your assumption that I cannot is yet another wet dream I may be disinclined to spoil for you.

Your god exist, eh?. . .Point to it and show that it exist. . .All these long grammer will not help you here. . .

Ihedinobi: In other words, you do not intend to try and fault my arguments, you would rather dismiss them, perhaps to avoid their merit.

That's ok. I have known for a long time now that atheists have no real arguments. They're ostriches, by definition, when faced with the question of God.

I repeat, your god is an idea that exist ONLY in people's imagination and not in reality. . .What do I have to do debating abstract concepts and ideas?. . . The concept of god is incoherent, and the assertions about the deities I've heard of don't match reality. As such, I consider that ball of undefined incoherence to be imaginary.

Here are some examples of what we see and deal with all the time here on NL religious section. . .

People here say, for example, that "God is love". Well, if god is identical to love, then I do think that god exists any where. Yet, the same people will start to apply extra bits to the "God is love" by showing that they don't think that god is identical to love but is some kind of awe force that has many attributes that aren't love or that god is not bound by human love or his love is some special kind of love that no one understands. In that case, why use a loaded word like god when there is a perfectly valid word like love already available? God isn't love, love is love.

Other people assert more generally that "God exists", yet they can't describe either part of that phrase. What's god? How does it exist? I'm greeted with either babbling dogmatic quotes or smug silence. God remains an idea and that is all. . .