₦airaland Forum

frosbel: I personally lost interest when I noticed the trend of argument for argument sake !!

I fully agree with you here. . .

Atheism started setting in gradually. It took quite a while before I lost my faith completely. After a very rigorous test of faith. I almost went crazy as a result. . .My encounter with the people in thailand made me have my first doubts and to re-examine my beliefs, question it and find out how true it is. From then on I came to understand that religion is not something we come to accept based on evidence or through verifiable arguments, its something that our culture and society inculcates in us since when we are children and it becomes a part of us as we grow,this culture later becomes our ultimate truth because our daily lives revolves around it and it is been reenforced by the beliefs of others around us. Once that religion which I call a culture becomes a part of us, we then always look for a way to justify it even when there are so many evidence to the contrary, most people believe in god or a particular religion because they some how find themselves involved in a group or society that promotes the idea and they are conditioned to believe in it even when most of its assertions are false( creation myths, noah's flood myth and garden of eden myth). It's later on when their subconscious nags them that it's BS, they start looking for evidence to support the notion even if it means lying to themselves(christian and islamic apologist come to mind here, a hand full of them exist here on nairaland as well). . . .

I left christainty because I came to realize that most of its stories are NOT true.Why should I accept the stories that I know are not true just because some people that I do not know said it happened when I know it did not? I read a LOT of books and came to understand how the religion actually came about. . .The bible is NOT the word of any god but the stories made up by men to promote their culture, promote their race and their god against that of others. The book contains a lot of good advice and a lot of bad advice as well. . .It is a book that can be used to justify anything. Alot of its stories are JUST NOT TRUE and never happend. For example there was never a flood that wiped out the whole of humanity. It is a lie it NEVER happened, a man can not divide the sea with a stick, sticks do not turn into snakes if egyptians magicains can turn their sticks into snakes during the time of moses then they should be able to do it now. donkeys do not talk, manna does not fall from heaven, a person can not survive inside a fish for 3 days. A person can not stop the earth from rotating, the rainbow is not a convenant between man and any god, stars can not fight along side human beings. Why is it that all these things only happen in the past when men were primitive and are not happening now? They tell us to accept these false stories based on faith but we know that faith is a device used by those who can't bear the thought that what they believe in is not so. It gives false assurance. It offers a religious placebo to those who are sick with a religious illness because at some level everyone realizes that believing on faith means nothing more than believing it because you have an emotional bias for believing itand they also realize that wanting to believe that something is true is in no way evidence for and doesn't even have any logical relationship to whether that thing is actually true. They know that they are lying and they tell us that faith is a virtue so we should have faith. I decided to tell my self the truth and accept reality not some feel good stories, myths, fiction and thoughts of unknown people which have been demonstrated to be false over and over again. Most of the authors of the bible are not even known. NO author of the gospels has ever meet Jesus or knew him in person, al;l the stories were written very long after him and his disciples were dead in greek a language he never spoke or understood. . . the books of the bible were written mostly by people that lived long after the stories they wrote and were later ascribed names of others. . .

I left christianity because if there truly is a god as described in the bible and by some christians then there will be no need for people to speak for him at all, christians will be performing magic all over the place as promised by jesus and people will come to know about there god but that is not the case. The fact that christians do not agree on the basic nature of the god of the bible alone tells you that it is all a man made sham like everything else. There are over 30,000 different sects of christianity and each of them aligns with the personal interpretation and view of the bible of the members within the sect. I read the history of christainty and the bible(islam and the koran) and came to know that like every other thing religion is man made there is nothing supernatural about( most supernatural beliefs in the past like earth quake, rainbow and lighting have been shown to be natural events) it and all its assertions are false as far as I know. We are told by religion that we have a soul that out lives us but science has shown that it is all a lie. I will rather believe in reality than feel good myths and lies by people that do not even know what the stars are. Our society is completely uneducated and illiterate that is why we believe in all these things. . .In the developed world, all religions are dying and the societies are better for it. . .

Here is mine. . .It was a topic here on nairaland back in the days. . .I just edited it a bit. . .

My various travels around the world was what first lead me to begin to question my faith. I was born into a muslim family but my dad allowed my mum to practice her christian religion while they still remained married. When my dad died the me and my siblings had to become very very conservative christians, I became a complete christian at the age of 13 (actually I was a closet christian ). My dad was not a serious muslim at all so we were just muslims in name only because my mum and her relatives used to take us to church and teach us about christianity but he never objected. . .in fact he didn't even mind at all. He just did not care about Islam or any religion at all. he just made sure that we knew the tenets of Islam and learn how to read the koran and pray that's all, nothing more because he didn't care at all. Looking back I believe he was a deist. I was raised in a wealthy home, by a very conservative mum and aunts who were end of day enthusiast. . .My mum still believes that Jesus will come during her life time. . .I grew up in the church and TRULY gave my life to christ when I was about
15 years old. . .I used to preach even when I first went to Europe in 2004. I used to lay hands on the sick seriously believing that they will be healed. . .I grew up mostly in the church, mum is very rich so the church was all over her and drew her close to them because she was always giving them money(she is their maga). . .I knew the bible very well or so i thought, used to participate in bible quize in back in my SS2 and SS3. . If I wasn't a christian and TRULY believed then no body on earth is a christian. . .I even joined nairaland as a christian. . .

My travels around the world was what opened my eyes to the institution called religion and faith. Those travels really showed me how the entire system works and how people turn culture, traditions and societal acceptance into facts and realities even if they are false and leads to their own detriment. I visited Thailand and Singapore in october back in 2006 and I saw the other side of the world that I never knew existed. My room mate at that time who is from Thailand took me there. While we were there we went to a small village about 200-km away from Bangkok for the burial of his uncle that passed away. While we were there I moved away and went to a corner and allowed them to continue their burial ritual. They burned incense chanted and did all their Buddhist incantations and ceremony while I was watching from a distance. Deep inside my mind I was really feeling sorry and bad for them for wasting their time praying for some one that was already in hell because I thought and believed that since the person they were about to bury refused to accept Jesus as his lord and savior he was doomed eternally. I really felt bad for them because I just felt they were doing a frivolous exercise.

One of them then walked up to me just said "hi" in their language shook my hand and left. . .when he saw me and my friend together he quickly walked up to us and asked my friend to tell him how happy he is to see me, he asked what brought me to thailand and most especially to their little village and I told him. My friend then became our translator. He told me about the guy that passed away and how great he was, he said he touched the lives of most of the people in the village that is why they decided to bury him instead of cremating him. He asked me if we bury our dead or cremate them and I told him we bury our dead, then he asked me what I believed in and I told him that I am a christian, and he replied by asking me what I meant by that. I didn't even know how to answer so I just repeated that I was a christian, he then asked me if christianity involves ancestral worship. I was kind of pissed at the questions he was asking me so I asked my friend if the guy was serious at all with the type of questions he was asking me and my friend said that he was, I laughed and told my friend if its true that the man does not know any thing about christianity and he said yes. I still did not believe, so I just told my friend to tell him, and my friend told me that he knows very little about christianity all he knows is that we believe in a man named Jesus and thats all he knows. It was then that I realized that I and my friend have never really talked about religion at all. So I told him to tell the man that I believe in Jesus Christ the son of God who came to die for the sins of all mankind and lead them into salvation according to God's plan, his face was indifferent when my friend told him and he asked me if Jesus is an ancestor of mine. I laughed because I still could not believe what I was hearing.

I didn't know what to tell him, I just said that Jesus is the son of God, not my ancestor, two other Buddhist monks also came along and we talked then I truly realized that this guys were truly serious because they had never heard the name Jesus in their lives at all, I realized that I was the first person to tell them about Jesus. I was really terrified. The year 2006 and here are people that have never heard the name Jesus in their entire lives and these are men that were well into their 40's and 50's. I just could not believe it, They had their own scriptures that teaches them everything about life, their realities coincides with everything that is written in their own scriptures, they had their own beliefs and their entire lives revolves around those set of beliefs just like ours. Jesus, the holy spirit or the God that I believed in had no role to play in their lives at all and that did not affect their lives in any negative way at all. They were leading normal lives like us, they had their own challenges and everything but the fact that most of them have never had the name Jesus talk less of knowing anything about christianity continued to hunt me. I could not believe it. I thought about how it will be very unfair to them if they die and go to hell because the bible says that Jesus is the only way to salvation and no one can go to God except through him. Since they do not believe in Jesus I believed they were all doomed, I could not accept it and I started to really question the whole thing from then on. . . . . . . . .

Mr_Anony:


For instance when I hear atheists criticizing and insulting Jesus Christ, I immediately know that they are not sincere because no one who claims to stand for good can be presented with the person of Jesus Christ and reject Him in all honesty. What I see in most atheists (especially the militant ones on Nairaland) is the same kind of blind fanaticism I see in cult religions.

Firstly Jesus promoted some pacifist philosophy that are very BAD, even christians do NOT follow them because they are bad. . .

Luke 6:29 If someone slaps you on one cheek, offer the other cheek also. If someone demands your coat, offer your shirt also.

This is pure nonsense and is bad. . .Even christians do NOT practice this at all. . .If I come and slap you and try to take your jacket it either you fight back or call the police on me. . .

With regards to divorce, Jesus's advice is plain wrong, why should a divorcee not get married to another person until after his/her divorced spouse dies?

Matthew 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.. . .

No forgiveness in his ruling. . .Who considers this to be a good thing, divorce is sometimes VERY good and saves people's lives. . .To say that divorce should be done ONLY on the basis of fornication is to not know what you are talking about, what if you are married to an unrepentant criminal and a psychopath that beats you regularly?. .Divorce is very good in this case, Jesus's declaration here is very bad, many christians do not even abide by it any way because they know its untenable and bad. . .

Threatening people with hellfire for unbelief?. . .What the hell is that, so because people do not believe in your stories the best thing is to threaten them with fire and death?. . .Who considers that to be a good thing?. . .Definitely not me. . .

For some weird reasons,he even admitted he was violent. . .

Matthew 10: 34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

He said he came to divide families. . .

Matthew 10:5 For I have come to turn

“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household

Who will consider such a person a good person. . .A person that claims to set people against each other. . .Not me. . .

He asked people to leave their jobs and families to join his little cult group and made them false promises of a second coming within their lives. This makes him no better than Harold Camping, Wayne Bent or Jim Jones (before the mass "suicide" ) as far as I'm concerned and every bit as dangerously crazy..


Good I say is relative, some of the good thing Jesus stood for are considered as bad by many others. . .

Anony claims that there is an elusive soul somewhere, he refuses to tell us where it is located and completely refuses to provide a single evidence for it. . .So far his argument for the soul remains people think and reason that means "soul". . .LOL!. . .Show us that the soul exist independently of the brain, all we get to read about is endless long English. . .

Seun: You're trying to distract us from the main point - that the bible does not condemn the practice of slavery - by posting irrelevant stories. If the moral standard of the bible is so high, how come slave-keeping, which was widely practiced in biblical times, is never recognized as an unacceptable evil in the bible? Why is it that God intends to cast liars into the lake that burneth with fire and brimestone, but has no such plan for people who buy, sell and own other human beings? How can a book be held as the ultimate moral standard of the universe when it tolerates and fails to condemn the deplorable and unacceptable practice of slavery, which no sane human being alive today would condone or tolerate?

How can the bible condemn slavery when we have god in the bible telling people to sell their daughters into slavery?. . .

Pro 17:8 A bribe is like a magic stone in the eyes of him who gives it; wherever he turns he prospers.

truthislight: ^^^

is this meant to confuse someone?

The brain is the controller, that a computer hybernates does not mean the cpu is no longer working.
...................
The brain works based on the information that it receives and is being fed.

But when the brain is convince of some superior information rationale that it has been inputed into it will start acting in accordance with that input.

It can start accepting some signals or rejects certain signals from it sensing organs.

With the conviction on the inputed you can then see a beautiful(naked woman not your wife) woman you remove your face or you decide to feed your eyes.

All this ^^^ are based on the initial input into the brain that looking at a naked woman not your wife will get you arouse/fall.

This ^^^ are actually how the decisions of the brain are arrived upon and depending on the varieties/volume of information stored(memory)


This are the conditions that the brain operates upon.

Without an initial imputed information there is no basis for the brain to decide to look at a naked she or refused to look at her.
Eg, little kids. Has nothing to do with an external/internal soul.


With more storage of information into the brain to work with, experience/knowledge = memory you have more info to scan(meditation/analysis) befor output = action.

Depending on the priority attached to the issues under consideration this action can continue into the persons sleep and can cause certain obvious reactions when certain stored or inputed information is unravel.

Control of the person or of the brain is as a result of such convictions, all Withing the brain.

Very nicely said. . .

musKeeto: And once again, the definition of Christianity changes.. Lol...

The definition of everything changes with anony. . .

You got me wrong. Once the soul leaves the body, it does not use the brain to access a physical reality. It is the tool that is damaged not the person.

So people with mental illness have their souls damaged or what?. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Lol, again you are confusing mechanism with agency.


In other words, you make your brain do it.[/quote]How do you read?. . . Your cerebral cortex (brain) sends impulses from it to the effectors (muscles or glands) via the spinal cord with relay neurons and finally a motor neurons.

In other words your brain does this by itself.

a reflex action [/b]is not under the control of the will. In this case, your spinal cord takes total control, without your own conscious will.

A while back, you said that man is nothing more than his brain so essentially the brain controls the will.

[b]How exactly does your brain control a "you" that controls it in turn?

The brain is the you. . .That is why some drugs affect the brain in a way that the "you" is at the mercy of the drugs. The you does ONLY what the drugs wants the "you" to do. . .If there is am immaterial part of the body called the soul as you call it, how then do such drugs affect it and make it lose its ability or derail is ability?. . .The brain is the man when it comes to thoughts, consciousness, and awareness. . .The soul has never been shown to exist anywhere. . .I have been asking you to show me how the soul exist on its own independent of the brain and all I get is one baseless talk or the other. . .You can not even back up the claim you are making with any evidence at all, yet you keep making them. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]If the brain controls everything, how can you talk about voluntary and involuntary actions? It is either the brain is voluntarily controlling something or something is overriding it's will and controlling it. It is illogical to say that the brain controls both voluntary and involuntary actions. Even your own response betrays you.

You are yet to show exactly us how matter magically develops a conscious intelligence.[/quote]Another meaningless talk. . .Its good you try to understand the context of what you are talking about before you speak some times. . .I define voluntary and involuntary actions biologically as follows. . .

Voluntary Actions: A voluntary action is basically an action which you yourself initiate by your own conscious. Your cerebral cortex (brain) sends impulses from it to the effectors (muscles or glands) via the spinal cord with relay neurons and finally a motor neurons. This action is under the control of the will thus is known as a voluntary action.

Involuntary Actions (Reflex Actions): Involuntary actions as their name suggest, are total opposites of voluntary actions, a reflex action is not under the control of the will. In this case, your spinal cord takes total control, without your own conscious will.

The brain controls all these things. . .How does the soul control anything on its own?. . . .

If there is something external to the brain that controls thoughts then why do people lose their memory when their brain malfunctions?. . .The immaterial soul that exist independent of the brain should not lose its ability to think, no?. . .People that lose all memory with brain injury, how will this same people remember everything after death without a brain when their brain is unable to remember anything as a result of injury or malfunction?. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]You are mistaking correlation for causality. The image does not help you at all. What it shows is that when a thought is going on, certain neurons light up but it doesn't prove that these neurons are causing the thought rather I have more reason to believe that the person is the one causing the the neurons to light up in the sense that you first choose to meditate on God and then the neurons start firing in the same way you choose to talk and then your mouth starts moving. In the same way your mouth is a tool for speech so is you brain a tool for thinking.

You still have a lot of work to do sir.[/quote]The problem with your analysis is that it is completely false. . .What is the person?. . .Is it the soul that controls digestion and heart beat?. . .The brain does all these things, it control EVERYTHING both voluntary and involuntary actions like heart beat, muscular movements etc. . . .What does the soul control?. . .

Logicboy03: See the lies that you have to tell to make your failed argument?



-Thoughts are not as non-physical as you put it. The process of making a though is very physical- your neurons are firing and they are recollecting a visual memory from a paert of the brain and analysing it.

-We can know when someones brain is active- the measure brain activity nowadays. You have to make the lie that thoughts can not be measured in anyway.

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/12/17/article-0-0C84C1BD000005DC-909_634x440.jpg
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1339517/God-brain-Scans-activity-religious-people-meditate.html


^^^This is your brain when you think about God



The brain is both a biological, phyical and chemical organ not just chemocals alone. You reduce the brain to chemicals to make your opponents points look ridiculous but you are a ridiculous reductionist

Thank you man. . .I said thoughts are a series of chemical reactions that occur inside the brain, but you can always trust annony to remix it and say that mazaje said that the brain is a chemical reaction. . .he never fails as always. . . . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Lol, actually it was mazaje that reduced the brain to chemical reactions not me.[/quote]Another lie. . .I said thoughts are a result of chemical reactions that occur in the brain. . . Such reactions can be seen with MIR scanners. An image was put up by logic boy. . .How does that equate to me reducing the brain to a bunch of chemical reactions?. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]But we can hear sound, we can measure it, we can represent a sound in terms of mass and velocity because a sound is basically a wave and if one is given the precise measures such as its frequency and wavelength, one can reproduce the same exact sound in a lab. Sorry my friend, sound is very physical. A thought on the other hand is a different thing entirely.

What you want us to believe is that if you mix a particular combination of chemicals and pass electricity through them, we will not only have a thought, but also the chemicals will know that they are actually thinking.

It gets even worse when you can't tell us how the same stimulus can produce wildly different thoughts which basically means that your experiment even if it miraculously succeeds, it still won't be repeatable.

Even much worse, you want us to believe that these same chemicals without outside intervention can choose to react with other chemicals and pass electricity through themselves in order to create more thought

And yeah by the way we cannot see, touch, hear, smell, or sense this thought in any way. We cannot even measure it at all.

So much for your "scientific fact"

All you have done these last few days is repeat the same "thought is a function of the brain" mantra in many different ways.

Thought is a function of the brain as speech is a function of the mouth. However the mouth does not decide for itself what it wants to say in the same way the brain does not decide for itself what it wants to think. The mouth and the brain are both tools for talking and thinking respectively.

If you insist that the brain generates thought on it's own, then be prepared to explain to us exactly how physical matter suddenly developed the ability to make decisions and also how all the peices of matter came to an agreement to work together and share a common consciousness.[/quote]You are just making things up and and making commentaries on them as usual. . .Thoughts are a function of the brain and the brain generates thoughts through a serious of complex chain process. . .Thought is a function of the brain, it is generated in the brain. . .

Why is it that if ONLY the part of the brain that is responsible for thought is damaged a person can not think clearly or lose his ability to think at all if thought is from an outside source?. . .Are you saying that a damage to the physical part of the brain affect the immaterial soul that generates the thought?. . .Drugs that reduce dopamine transporter sites in the terminal buttons of neurons in the brain alter your thoughts completely when ingested. . .Some make you do what they want you to do and give you feelings you can not control. . .Are you saying that such material drugs also affect the outside immaterial soul and alter its actions?. . .

I have been waiting for you to give me one evidence of the elusive soul existing on its own independent of the brain and all I have been hearing is one story or the other. . .Even if I am to go by the baseless claim that lacks complete evidence that the soul exist and is responsible for generating thought can you then explain to me how material things like drugs alter the actions of the immaterial soul and make it redundant?. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]so far mazaje has failed to show us how physical chemical reactions create non-physical results. . . .[/quote]Your questions remain dubious. . . Thoughts are simply a reflection of physical things(Things that exist with in time and space). . .You can not think about anything that does not exist within time and space. . .The thought process is entirely a physical one. . .Just the way chemical reactions create sound which is non physical. . .Can you capture sound, paint it and present it to me as a gift?. . .You keep talking about a soul that exist as an entity on its own but you have failed to show that it exist, your assertions are baseless, I have shown you that the brain exist independently of your elusive soul and does everything. Are my thoughts my soul?. . .

So far anony has failed to show us what the elusive soul can do on its own without the brain. . .

davidylan: My story is neither long nor interesting...

See, i was one of the "lucky" few or perhaps you may want to consider me one of those who was "indoctrinated" from birth. I was born to parents who had been strong conservative christians at least 10 yrs before they were married... i grew up in a home where reading the bible at least 2ce a day and prayer was not negotiable. By the age of 6 i could recite Ps 23 flawlessly... by the time i was 10 i could basically preach an entire sermon on the book of John chapter 3. By the time i reach senior sec school... there was barely anything in the bible you could tell me that i did not know or at least have a vague idea of. I knew so so much... i was lulled into a false sense of security that i knew the Lord. But did i really?

The experimental years:
I never truly understood something my dad always said to me growing up - "God has no grandkids"... well until i got into college fulltime. For the first time in my 17 yrs on earth, i didnt have to read my bible... i could skip prayer when i wanted and best of all i didnt have to go to church! For once i could experiment with drinking alcohol (i never really liked it and stopped real quick), rebellion and girls and did i have a field day with the last 2! College was fun with Jesus as an after-thought. Since i was relatively good at school, i laughed at those who made exams prayer points... i easily dismissed those who tried to preach to me because they soon found out i knew more about the very same bible far better than they. Being top of the class helped as well and most would rather avoid me than have me point out to them that God must not be answering their prayers if he let me (a complete sinner) be their head while they struggled as the tail.

Despite my open rebellion to the word of God, i was genuinely blessed to have parents who, night and day, never ceased to lift me up before the Lord. For some weird reason, my best friends happened to be committed christians and i found myself being dragged to church time and time again against my will. I could sing relatively well so i ended up in the church choir and stayed there for many years. But the more i got closer to the church... the more i realized it for what it was... a sham! The church had become nothing more than a social gathering of moral hypocrites... i could count many who stood with me on sundays to "minister" who had spent the previous night in the beds of strange men. Yes i was a christian but more as a function of cultural association than anything to do with being truly born again (i had no idea what that meant anyway).

Grad school was almost the beginning of the end for me. For the first time, i started to have a lot of questions. If truly God was a healer... why had i never seen the crippled walk? Why was it that God NEVER answered my prayers when i wanted Him to? why did He routinely let bad things happen to "good people"? why did the wicked live longer, get richer and enjoy relatively better lives than those of us who spent hours singing songs to someone who for all we know did not exist? The more i dabbled into scientific research... the more distant i felt from the church, i had started to hate the "shackles" that religion had begun to represent. Why couldnt i drink like everyone else? why did they know the best spots in town, the best girls and have the finest things of life while i had just a tattered bible to my name? After many months of struggling... i eventually gave in to my desires... for 2.5 yrs i would have nothing to do with a church, bible or christians in general. Slowly, i had started to laugh at the "stupidity" of many who sat around waiting for a rapture that had been "delayed" for 2000 yrs and counting... poor peasants who preferred to "pray" rather than work hard. I despised a boring set of folks who told us about a Jesus who had filled the heads of christians with so much fluff you could barely have a coherent scientific discussion with them. The more i delved into the world of science, the more "intelligent" i felt and the more i thought i no longer needed God.

But in all these... i could not help but notice the peace and joy that radiated in the lives of my parents, cousins, uncles and aunts who truly knew Jesus. I saw my youngest brother transform from an abusive and rebellious man to one with so much love and joy to share. Each time i stood with them, i realized how empty my life truly was. I had the girls, i was the smart one, i was starting to make some good money YET i was the one who spent more time seeking advice from those i had once looked down on.

Life changed one day while listening to a sermon. All my life i had come to know God as some abstract angry judge... waiting in some corner to strike me down each time i sinned. while i had flirted with the church in and out for about 2 years, the summer of 2010 was the turning point... i only remember going into my bedroom and just talking to God... pouring my heart out to Him just as i would my mom or best friend. I talked and cried... said everything that had been on my mind for years - the hurts, the pain... and when i was through... i had never felt lighter, more joyful and more at peace than at anytime ever. I have come to understand so much that i didnt know - God does answer prayers... in His time. We sometimes get so focused on the me me me part of life that we seldom remember to thank Him for the simple things in life - your salvation, the joys of being able to breathe without effort, the comfort of a loving family, food to eat, water to drink, favor before men, abundant grace and guidance in all facets of your life.

Things i learnt:

1. Just being born into a christian family does not make you a christian... you truly need to define your own walk with God.

2. God is a FATHER, a JUDGE... but most of all HE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND. He is just as interested in the little things in your life as He is interested in your prayer life. Make it a habit to get to talk to Him, there will be times when you may not know what to say... just go ahead and speak... He is always listening and will always answer you.

3. The bible is NOT a set of rules meant to keep you from enjoying life. The day i understood this point, my concept of the bible radically changed. Being a child of God is not so much a legalistic label but a genuine relationship with the bible as a guide. If you truly love Him, you dont need a copy of the 10 commandments nailed to your chest to obey His commandments, it just flows out of you as an outward expression of your burning desire to please the One who has called you His own.

4. The greatest love in the world is when a man chooses to die for you and me. If you cannot do that for your own child, just think how much love it took for another to do it for you who never met Him before? Incredible.

5. Being a christian does not automatically lead to a life of luxury, sound health and no tears. God isnt coming into your life like the genie in alladin's lamp... rather He is a gentle voice in the midst of your storm, providing you comfort when everything looks to be falling apart.

6. Jesus truly loves YOU, He is real and cares so much for you. Just give Him a chance... it is ok to approach Him in all honesty... He knows you better than you do anyway so why bother to pretend lol.

This man despite his nasty and hot headed ejaculations most times remains the most honest christian on the nairaland religion section to me. . .He tries to be sincere most of the time and I respect him for that. . .

The Nigerian church is a a very big MESS!!!!!

Purist: For Anony, atheism was virtually all about bashing Christians and asking annoying questions, à la Socrates' method (curious that he paints his "atheism" with a notoriously common stereotype). Dude even went as far as attending Christian fellowships just to bash people. Amazing!

For Anony, choosing to respect an individual's religious belief somehow translated to indirectly acknowledging the same God he claimed didn't exist. Wonderful logic. It is no wonder then that, as a supposed atheist who supposedly was fond of asking questions, he found LaVeyan Satanism appealing.

I also wonder why after reading 'Ivan The Fool', all he 'saw' thereafter was Christ. Why does something tell me that a former Zoroastrian would equally have 'seen' Zoroaster, and a former 'Islamist' would very well have seen Mohammed?

For me, I wouldn't go as far as to say that Anony was never a true atheist, as I'd be quite guilty of committing the No True Scotsman fallacy. My opinion, however, is that Anony was just a young (possibly aggressive) dickhead and an absolute douchebag who was battling within himself with the exuberance of youth, as evidenced by:

(a) his constant eagerness to go all the way to people's worship center to bash them such that he had turned them into his 'victims', and
(b) his eventual adherence to something as ridiculously sick as LaVeyan Satanism

The young Anony eventually found more solace in his abandoned religion, as it was the only thing that could reasonably afford him the luxury of forgiveness and by extension, riddance of guilt whenever he acted out the sick thoughts that dominated his mind. It is therefore not much surprise that he firmly associates atheism (which happened to coincide with this wanton period of his life) with all manner of ills (murder, rape, stealing, etc). Gentlemen, all Anony sought while supposedly being an atheist was simply something to rationalize his deeds, to make him feel good, no matter what he did, no matter how twisted. All of these, he now finds in Christianity.

Praise the Lord!

Anony is just lying when he says he was an atheist and I am VERY serious about that. . .His atheism was all about having ideas like rapingg women and feeling no guilt, not been responsible and not accountable for anything because only him mattered to him self etc. . .I was reading a post on psychology today. . . a study was conducted and it showed that in the broad strokes, ideology makes very little difference in the moral decisions most people make. . .People mostly go with their instincts in most cases. . .If his story is true which it is not, then he is just a depraved individual. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]There is a level of poor reasoning which I have come to expect from logicboy, but to see it coming from you is quite appalling.[/quote]You said things that I found very ridiculous and strange. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Advantages of following Christ over being an Atheist:

1. As a follower of Christ, I have a purpose for living. My life has a meaning. As an atheist life has no meaning, it is just a bunch of random coincidences.[/quote]No, you do not have meaning. Anyone can make something up and declare it to be true, but if you can't demonstrate that it actually is true, then it doesn't actually mean anything.

However, your assumption that my life has no meaning because I do not share your belief in unsupported assertions tells me a lot about you. This can only be true if belief in god is the only thing you find meaning in, which I find really sad and causes me to pity you. I find meaning in the love of my family, the company of my friends, helping strangers and people in need, appreciating the good and bad life has to offer, contemplating the mysteries of the life and the universe, and a bunch of other stuff, but you find no meaning in that? You only find meaning in the existence of god and Jesus which you cannot even prove. , I find my life very meaningful without following christ.

2. As a follower of Christ, I can love my neighbour and sacrifice for him. As an atheist, there is no need to love you can choose to love or hate if you like.

Once again, you reveal something important about yourself. I do love other people, and am willing to go to great lengths to help other people.

You on the other hand only help others because you believe in god. For reasons I cannot fathom, you cannot help others just to help others. You can only help others for some reason connected to your belief in god. That sound ridiculous to me. . .

3. As a follower of Christ, other people have value because Christ died for them. As an atheist, man has no real value. He has no soul only a bunch of atoms.

You are only willing to help others if you believe in god, I presume because you have been threatened with eternal torture and promised eternal pleasure if you help others. Why else would you refuse to help others without your belief in god?. . .So you value people only because you believe in god, else people are completely without value to you. . .To you atheism= people without value, right?. . .Hmmmmm

4. As a follower of Christ, I don't have the emptyness that comes with a life of purposelessness. As an atheist, purposelessness and meaninglessness is the reality I live with

Again, I happen to think you are the one with not enough meaning in your life. You assume everyone who lacks belief in God has no meaning in their lives, therefore you cannot find meaning in all the things I find meaning in (family, friends, helping others, etc.) but only find meaning in the existence of god. . . I as an atheist find live very purposeful and do not require a believe in god to give it purpose. . .Family, friends, the complexity of life and people all give my life meaning and purpose. . .It is not empty at all. . .

5. As a follower of Christ, marriage is sacred. If I chose a wife, I must be faithful to her and love her until we both pass away. As an atheist, there is nothing really sacred about marriage and there is no real reason to stay faithful.

Being faithful to your spouse will make both you and your spouse happy, you will not want your spouse to be unfaithful to you as well. . .As an atheist there is everything sacred about marriage when you tell your woman that you will have only her as a wife. . .keeping your vows does NOT require any god because the pain of losing your loving wife is enough to make you stay faithful to her, besides you promised to stay with her alone and love her to the best of your ability. Of all what you have written this remains the most pointless one. . .So without god you can not keep your marital vows. . .In the united states where they take up statistics, atheist have less divorce rate than christians. . .

6. As a follower of Christ, I cannot be cruel to my neighbour or have evil thoughts toward him because Christ forbids it. As an atheist, cruelty is my choice. If I can get away with it why not?

First, the behaviour of real-life christians reveals it as false. I believe you felt as an atheist you could get away with stealing and lying to people on some cases, so how many people did you lie to, cheat and defraud without feeling any remorse because you were an atheist?. . .If what you claim were true, then when we compare industrialized nations to each other, we would find that nations with higher percentages of atheists would have more crime because according to you, a higher percentage of the population is inherently cruel and devoid of morals, yet we find exactly the opposite of that: nations with lower percentages of atheists have more crime. The evidence appears to be precisely the opposite of what your reasoning suggests should be the case.

7. As a follower of Christ, I forgive when I have been offended. As an atheist, there is no real reason to forgive. I can exact vengeance if I wanted to.

Will you forgive a man and let him walk away freely if he kills your mum, your daughter, steals all your money and rapess your wife?. . .If you say yes then you are LYING. . .Forgiveness is good if it will make you and the person involved understand each other better. . .In many cases crimes and offence just have to be punished instead of brushed aside by forgiveness. . .If I constantly keep stealing your property will you keep forgiving me because you believe in christ?. . .This is just senseless. . .

8. As a follower of Christ, I do not do good deeds to please people or show off my goodness but to please God, As an atheist, the only way to really justify goodness is if it gives me some personal gratification.

Actually, that's exactly what you do. Since you assume that no one who lacked belief in your religion could possibly do good deeds, we can conclude that without your religion, you would not do good deeds. The only possible way I can make sense of this is if the only reason you do good deeds is because you have been promised eternal pleasure and threatened with eternal torment.There's no real difference between doing good because it makes you feel good, and doing good because you believe it pleases God and pleasing God makes you feel good.

Believe it or not, many Christians—just like me—do the right thing simply because it is the right thing, and not because they are hoping for eternal pleasure or hoping to avoid eternal torture. You can spot these christians by the lack of assumptions of moral superiority. . . .If truly you held this views as an atheist they you are just a bad person simple. . .

9. As a follower of Christ, I can live without the so-called good things of life. No bait can be used to tempt me into evil. As an atheist, there is nothing beyond this life and no one to be accountable to so there is every reason to grab as much pleasure as you can manage.

Right. Here.

Here, you admit what's going on. Here you admit the real reason you choose to behave morally. Because of "accountability". In other words, the only reason you behave morally is because you have been promised eternal pleasure and threatened with eternal torture. This is the reason you have so much difficulty imagining anyone choosing to do the right thing simply because it is the right thing. This is not proof of your nobility, but proof of your selfishness, which most people would identify as immorality rather than morality.So as a christian he have to live a miserable life, while I as an atheist can choose to seek pleasure. How convincing ...

10. The best part is that as a follower of Christ, it is not my good works that gets me to Heaven, I don't have to impress God. I do not do good because I am forced to or because I am afraid of hell (I have already been saved from it) but because I am grateful to the one who loved me so much that He took the punishment for my sins so I honor Him. As an atheist, there is really no good and evil anyway, everyone is free to do what he likes and can justify to himself. If cruelty works for you just do it. the worst that will happen is that you die.

It's just been the same ridiculous mantra the whole way through this, hasn't it?

If anything you said was true, then Christians would be demonstrably more moral than everyone else, and atheists would be complete monsters. We would spend all our days raping and murdering. Yet this is not what we see, is it? Instead we see greater crime rates in nations with more Christians in them.

You have not based your beliefs on what is likely to be true, but what makes you feel better. It seems to me that what makes you feel better is the assumption of your own moral superiority, which frees you from having to actually try to be a better person. Thankfully, the Christians I know in person do not go through life with even a fraction of the staggering arrogance displayed in this pile of faulty logic and unsupported assertions. They read and understood the meaning of the Samaritan parable in the Bible and make no assumptions of moral superiority. They know what it means to do the right thing simply because it is the right thing and not because they are afraid of eternal torture from their "loving God".

In fact, studies show that in the broad strokes, ideology makes very little difference in the moral decisions we make, which means arrogant, depraved people like you must be a minority among christians.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Lol, you are making the same mistake logicboy made which is putting the cart before the horse. Do you need to remember your past in other to know that you are different from a chair or do you need to know you are distinct before you remember your past. You said earlier that a new born baby cannot internalize has no thoughts and memories but builds them as it grows. Does this therefore mean that a new born baby cannot distinguish between itself and the hospital equipment?[/quote]You are just running around in circles and asking meaningless questions. . .Self awareness is a function of the brain without which you can NOT be self aware in the first place. . .A new born baby is not self aware. . .Self awareness grows over time. . . http://psychology.emory.edu/cognition/rochat/Five%20levels%20.pdf

From wikipedia it says Self-awareness is widely believed among psychologists to typically develop at about the age of one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_cognitive_development

Once again, you miss the point. You agree that the story itself is non-physical. It may be in form of a book, a CD, spoken sounds e.t.c. but it is not the book or the CD that is Oliver twist and if they are destroyed, the story still remains. It is the story that validates the book and not the book that validates the story. You agree to this but then somehow when it comes to the brain which has the same relationship to non-physical thought and personhood you want to convince me that the chemical reactions are the person. Why the double standard?

Oliver Twist is a story. . .Oliver Twist story book is ANOTHER different thing from the story. . .The story exist independent of the book so they are NOT the same. . .The story book is only paper, symbols and ink. . .I can tell you about the story of Oliver twist without reading the book if some one tells me the story. . .You can NOT not show me any thing the soul can do on its own. . .If the soul exist then it MUST be able to exist on its own with out the brain. . .The brain exist on it own and has been shown to do EVERYTHING with regards to reasoning, thoughts, self awareness and consciousness. . .What can the elusive and "soul" do on its own so that we can know that it exist independently?. . .I can tell you about the oliver twist story independently of the book, show me that the elusive soul exist independently of the brain. . .

Logicboy03: Lord of the remix. You tied that philosophy to atheism rather than yourself. That is the problem




Not all atheists support gay rights. You have no points. You tied supporting molestation to atheism rather than your poor philosophy. That is the problem

You took the words right out of my mouth, that was why I said he was LYING when he said he was an atheist, in anony world atheism which is just a lack of belief in god equals to murder, theft and rapeeee without remorse and guilt. . .Wow, just wow. . .

Logicboy03: Anony told me he was an atheist in the past when we met. I could only laugh when he said that it atheism automatically leads to Satanism.


Havent seen Dawkins kneeling down to recieve the dark lord have you?

He is obviously lying, he was never an atheist. . .An atheist can never say things like "what is really wrong with lying anyway?" or "what is really wrong with adultery?". . . .Atheism is simply a lack of belief in god. . .It is not a moral philosophy etc. . .To claim that you are an atheist and claim that it lead you to satanism or that it leads to satanism is not know what you are talking about. . .He is just LYING as usual. . .In this case he is telling sweet lies for Jesus. . .

Logicboy03: [/quote]I have seen that debate; it was wonderful. People have reviewed it a lot. Dinesh similarly avoided taking on Sam Harris points on old testament and religious morlaity in the debate.


These guys are good at debating by remixing. All one needs to do is always used the flaws in their argument against them. Hitchens was good at that. He always pointed out the lie that Hitler was an atheist and that theists result to sidestepping religious evil to charity!

They keep lying all the time. . .Example anony says when he was an atheist he felt he was not accountable to any body so he believed he could do anything because everything depended on him alone. . .He should tell us how many women he rapeed to satisfy his sexualll desires for example since he was not accountable to any body and every thing depended on him. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Lol, so the exchange of information is now self-awareness abi? you haven't even explained how those chemical reactions happen to be non-physical information but you are already jumping to telling me that this non-physical information is actually aware of itself. Great.[/quote]As logic boy has said

Awareness needs
-reasoning
-memory
-consciousness

All there are different parts of the brain that are responsible for all these, when some parts of your brain and tampered with you lose your ability to remember things, when some are tampered with you lose your ability to reason, when some are tampered with you lose your consciousness. . .The totality of it is what makes you self aware. . .Thoughts are not non physical as such cos you can not think of non physical things. . .Even numbers have symbols. when you think of numbers you think of symbols. . .

Lol, the story can be shown to exist on its own? Where?
I put it to you that you cannot show me one example of non-physical information/knowledge that doesn't have a physical bearer but yet you are sure that the non-physical aspect is very different from it's physical carrier. It is only when it comes to the brain that you want to marry the two. Why?

What exactly are you talking about?. . .Oliver Twist story can be told without the oliver twist book. . .The oliver twsit book is paper and ink and story does not depend on the book since it can be told without the book. . .Your analogy remains senseless and very poor in relation to the discussion we are having. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]This is a poor answer and you know it. So far you have been ranting about how removal of one part of the brain can affect memory and another can affect motor skills while yet another can affect cognitive skills e.t.c. How come there is no part of the brain you can remove to effectively turn a man into a robot? The tools for thinking will still be very much intact. You don't need to be self-aware in order to think (have a memory and make calculations) computers do it all the time without self awareness.[/quote]I have not been ranting I have been stating FACT, removal of some parts of the brain affects speech, thought, reasoning and motor fucntions, they are facts not rants. . .Self awareness is the exchange of information between brain functions simple. . .

Actually it does because the story itself is non-physical but I have reduced it to ink and paper in the same way you are trying to reduce non-physical thoughts to physical chemical reactions.

If you are talking about the story then you are not talking about the book. . .So your analogy remains senseless. . .The story can be shown to exist on its own and does NOT require a book for it to be told. . .The book is only paper and ink. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Asked and answered[/quote]OK. . .

Is there a part of the brain that we can remove that will make a person lose his self awareness?

Self awareness is the exchange of information between brain functions. I don't think the brain has a single region that is devoted to self awareness, but rather, the complex phenomenon likely emerges from the distributed interactions between multiple brain regions. . . .

Please stop stating as fact something you don't know to be fact. Your argument is similar to saying that a Oliver Twist is a function of ink and paper because without ink and paper there'll be no Oliver Twist story.

So what are is responsible for thoughts if not the chemical reactions that occur in the brain?. . .Tell me pls. . .Your Oliver Twist analogy doesn't make any sense. . .If you give me the book, I will tell you that with out ink and paper the book will not exist not the story. . .Oliver twist story is not a book, its a story that exist on its own independent of a book, it can be told with words of mouth. . . so your analogy with ink and paper makes no sense. . .

Logicboy03: I wasnt surprised. I have experienced lots of Anonyism firsthand!


He is as dubious as Dinesh D'souza

No be small thing. . .Dinesh D'souza, William Craig, Garry Habermas, Anony etc. . .They are all the same. . .There is a debate between William Craig and Eddy Tabash on morality. . .Look it up if you can. . . .You will be shocked. . . William Craig just got tired and didn't know how to respond to tabash, he ended up saying that some of the old testament morality were not set by god. . .he said some of the things the people wrote down did not come from god, they felt god told them but he believed they got it wrongly and god did not tell them such things. . . . . .Am very serious. .Pls look it up. . .

Logicboy03: Quote mining?


Wow.....just wow.....he quoted you in clear context.


Anonyism 101; when somebody uses a strong argument against you, falsely project it back at them

I was shocked when I read his reply. . .WOW!!!

davidylan: Which is the same thing as saying the ability to travel from place to place is a function of the leg. I suppose your leg has the capacity to just travel wherever it wishes, dragging the rest of you reluctantly along.

Is the ability to move from place to place a function of your penissss?. . .

If self awareness is a function of the brain then why havent we been able to decipher any distinct difference with the brains of mad people, sociopaths? why is their brain circuitry no different from that of you and me?

I repeat self awareness is a function of the brain. . .What the hell are you saying, you mean to say that the brain of the psychopaths doesn't have any difference with that of a normal person?. . .That is a very big LIE. . .


Psychopaths aren't just mentally different - their brains are physically deformed to prevent them feeling fear or guilt. Brains of psychopaths have 'broken links' between parts responsible for empathy and guilt.

American researchers took a magnetic-resonance imaging scanner to a medium security prison in Wisconsin, and scanned the brains of 40 prisoners in a doing time for similar offences, half of whom had been diagnosed with psychopathy. Results of the study revealed both structural and functional abnormalities in the brains of the psychopaths, with scientists finding there was less communication between two key areas of their brains than the other prisoners.
The first of these structures, known as the ventromedial prefrontal cortex, is responsible for emotions including empathy and guilt.
The second, called the amygdala, controls levels of fear and anxiety.
It is thought the lack of communication between these two areas makes it difficult for psychopaths to regulate their social and emotional behaviour.
Study author Professor Michael Koenigs, from the University of Wisconsin-Madison said the two structures 'seemed not to be communicating as they should.'
There was evidence not only of physical diffferences in white matter, but of electrical activity in the areas connecting the two.

Professor Koenigs, whose findings were published in the Journal of Neuroscience added: 'This is the first study to show both structural and functional differences in the brains of people diagnosed with psychopathy.'
'The decision-making study showed indirectly what this study shows directly - that there is a specific brain abnormality associated with criminal psychopathy.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2065161/Psychopaths-arent-just-mentally-different--brains-physically-deformed-prevent-feeling-fear-guilt.html#ixzz2H5lNJOU9

More. .

Schizophrenia changes brain structure: A Review of Studies of Individuals with Schizophrenia Never Treated with Antipsychotic Medications

http://mentalillnesspolicy.org/medical/brain-change-schizophrenia.html

You clearly do not know what you are talking about. . .Your mental state can NOT be separated with the state of your brain. . .

Sigh... how long are you going to recycle this tired canard?

i explained very clearly earlier on - the brain is merely the physical outlet for a non-physical soul. That is... the soul cannot interact with the physical world without the help of the brain... but the brain by itself is just as useless as a lump of flesh...

And I said this immaterial soul is affected by material things like drugs and oxygen starvation etc?. . .What happens to the soul of a person whose brain was damaged and lost everything or whose behaviour was completely altered and changed as a result of the brain damage?. . .So a damaged or alteration to the brain causes damaged or alteration to the immaterial soul, eh?. . .If the brain is a useless lump of flesh then why does any damage to the brain affect you completely, why those a damage to the brain have the ability of completely altering your behaviour for example?

If all it takes to generate thought in the brain is a chain of chemical reactions then why are we unable to create a thought in the lab? You have simply glided over that question with the "i dont know" excuse. YET you keep telling us that your "claim" has been shown scientifically even though you provide no evidence for that whatsoever.

You question is very daft and invalid. . .thoughts can not be produced in the labs because brains can not also be produced in the lab. . .The chemical reactions that take place in the brain can not be produced in the lab for obvious reasons. . .Its a scientific fact that thoughts are a set of chemical reactions in the brain.