₦airaland Forum

engrtee: Mind your buisness

The christians and muslims in Nigeria do NOT mind their own business. . .

No body is actually willing to be an outcast in Nigeria that is why. . .The Nigerian christians living in Europe, America and Australia and are forced to tolerate the atheists living there because of the way those societies are structured. . .When I tell Nigeriana in England, Germany,Sweden, Finland or Spain that I am an atheist I get words like " You sef don join them abi" or "All these white people sef dem don deceive you abi, god dey ohh". . .And it ends there. . .But in Nigeria I can't even try it because many people form their relationships based on religion or tribe, if you are from the same religion with them, the bond will be stronger and the level of confidence will increase, if you are not the bond is mostly superficial until you prove your self. . .The Nigerians living in the west have no choice but to tolerate the atheist living there. . .The average Nigerian is uneducated, very close minded, superstitious and a religious bigot. How do you expect him to be open minded and tolerate the atheist when he believes that atheism is a curse that needs to be defeated?. . .

Goshen360: I agree with you but the OT is so that we can appreciate the NT. Like I always said, it was written to Jews, not to Christians. When we read it, we can better appreciate the NT. Christians were NEVER under that law in the first place. Also, the OT was pointing to the redemption process and Christ. Christ had come to show us a better way to God and to people around us. There's no greater love than that - I love you and you love me. That's what the NT hangs on.

So god didn't know a better way to himself and had to change tactics?. . .Any way, I am not up for theological arguments that are predicated on some abstract premise. . .

Goshen360: You're only holding unto OT and yet you just said even the Jews don't follow the Old anymore. It seems to me you just want to hang on excuses of the obsolete testament. It is OBSOLETE and no longer fits into the New. Okay, does the NT ever tell Christians to kill their neighbours who worship other gods? Does the NT ever say sell kids into slavery? Yet, you claim God never changes and the same yesterday today and forever. Your very own argument is illogical.

I said even the Jews that believe in the OT find it repulsive and refuse to follow what is written inside. . .The Jews that practice Judaism believe in the OT but refuse to obey it. . .They do NOT believe in any new or old. . .They just find the injunctions in their own holy book barbaric and refuse to obey it. . .I am not the one that claimed that the bible god does not change, the bible made the claim. . .The bible says its god remains the same for ever and never changes. . .If the OT is obsolete then why is it part of the bible?. . .Why do you read from it and take or obey some of the good parts but discard the bad parts?. . .

Goshen360: Exactly what I'm saying. It's obsolete. God took away the Old so he can establish the New.



Who said stealing is a new law? Are you saying we should steal or what? No one, whether Christian or not, should steal. What I said was, when toba said we should not steal, it's not because the OT says so but because Christians are not to steal etc and without being told, our conscience bears without that stealing is wrong whether Christian or not. You, even as an Atheist, do you steal? I doubt you do.

People that were living in other parts of the world knew that stealing was wrong long before the 10 commandments were written. . .As for the moral evolution between the OT and the NT, I have my own explanations for that but I know you won't accept it. . .So lets just agree to disagree. . .

toba: Love ur neighbour as yourself by Jesus Christ covers thou shall not steal. Jesus didnt negate the ten comandments. did he? read mark 12 30 to 32

Leviticus 19:18 also says you should love your neighbour as yourself. . .The OT then goes to tell people to kill their neighbours if they worship other gods. . .Sell their kids into slavery etc. . . .

Goshen360: Yes, it doesn't make sense to me also but you must understand that Christians were NEVER under that covenant in the first place. When he says we should not steal, not because the first covenant says so but because the NEW law of God is written in our heart under the NT.

Covenant?. . .Even the Jews themselves that still have the OT as their holy book do NOT abide by most of the things written in the OT. . . .If you try to obey and live by just few of the injunctions of the OT as a Jew in Israel today, you will be arrested and imprisoned. . .Even the Jews of today that believe ONLY in the OT do not agree or obey most of what is written inside the holy book, their morality is way above that of the god they believe in. . . .

So stealing is a new law written in your heart but selling your daughter into slavery is not, eh?. . . .Can you show me your heart so that I can see where it is written?. . .

Goshen360: And it was written to who? Christian? And for what purpose was it written or given?

The entire bible you guys claim is the word of god, no?. . .Toba said the bible tells people not to steal. if i ask him for reference I believe he will show me the ten commandments. Was the ten commandments given to christians? . . . .What's the purpose of selling a person's daughter into slavery?. . .Because I just can't understand why a merciful and loving god will tell people to stone to death their disobedient children. . .It might make sense to the ancient people that wrote it but to me it just doesn't. . .

Goshen360: How many times will I warn you about this aspect of the bible? You know say you be my friend but you dey fall my hands most times. Haba

Did the bible tell people to sell their daughters into slavery, yes it did. . . What about killing of unbelievers?. . .It did as well. . .Marrying your rapeee victim nko? Stoning to death your disobedient kids?. . .Its all in there and those injunctions were supposedly given by a loving and merciful god that never changes and remains the same yesterday, today and for ever, no?

toba: Interesting but u are mixing things up. The bible is not a constitution that can be subject to amendments and review, yet the principles contained therein are guides and guards for believers and can be applied in everyday life.

The bible is not the American constitution but the bible says you should respect president Obama, pay ur tax and do not steal. How is that a backward thing?

The same bible also says that people should stone to death their disobedient children, kill those that worship other gods, tells people to enslave each other, and says that rapistss should marry the women they rapeee. . .How is that not a backward thing?

ayobase: Somethings are allowed so that His name will be glorified, and also for sources of later testimonies to enhance others faith.

And not all those that look good are actually good!

Some are the cause of what's happening to them.

"My people perish cos they lack knowledge"
That verse is very powerful!

God is unquestionable.
His ways and reasonings are far far from ours!

This one don say him own. . .Next!

achina boy: God has created you to fend for your life and future,he don`t care

Another one done talk him own. . .

When will god come and speak for himself and tell people why he allows his beloved children to suffer needlessly?. . .

Theologians come with your various SPAG explanations. . .

onetrack: 11) You believe that everything bad that happens to you and your people is just God testing your faith, while anything bad that happens to people of other religions is God's punishment.

Funny but true. . .

Leave her behind, it works like magic. . .My step dad used to warn my mum sternly about her lateness(she was always late). . .There was a time he left her behind for a very important occasion because she wasted a lot of time, she never believe he was ever going to leave her behind but he did. . .After that he made it clear, get dressed on time or I will leave without you. . .Since then till today my mum tries her very best never to be late when ever they are going out. . .There was a time not long ago she was late and he left without her. . .My ex also had a habit of being late, she will try 3 different dresses on before finally choosing the one to wear sometimes. . .I tolerated her for a while, when I could bear it no longer I started leaving her behind and it stopped immediately. . I Left her behind 3 times and the lateness ended. . .

Hermophrodite witch. . .LOL

OK, what does his statement mean?. . .What does it mean when he says he has not come to abolish the laws of the prophets but to full-fill them?. . .

Goshen360: What does Christ's statement mean? And do you try to find (search) out why Jesus said that?

The TRUTH of the matter is that you do NOT know what his statements TRULY mean, you can ONLY self project and give me your OWN personal opinion and interpretation. . .If I ask another person he will give me his own personal opinion and interpretation as well. . .Many will take the literal interpretation. . . You did not write the passage as such claiming some special knowledge over what the passage truly means is nothing but projecting your own personal opinion. . .That is the FACT of the matter. . .What his statement means is what was written there. . .

The old testament has been replaced by the new testament, and the new testament says Jesus did not come to abolish the law or prophets...

Religions already have answers to the nagging questions, they know they do not offer the best solutions and as such they came up with phrases like the wise will perish or the cleverness of the wise is foolishness in the eyes of god. . .Or if you disbelieve you will die. .

Vexdacool will say something like, you gay lover and suicidal atheist fool. . .Now you are broke?. . .Crazy infidel, you haven't seen anything yet. . .LOL!. . .

LOL!. . .Logicboy. . .You are a riot. . .LOL!

plaetton: I wish our scientific christians can figure out a way to harness the megatons of prayer power Nigeria produces everyday. If we can harness that power, we could export it the rest of the world and become an economic, technological and even military superpower.

Some actually believe they can do this, am very serious. . .I have this friend here that completely believes in juju. . .The guy seriously dislikes me for my unbelief, you know how it is when you were a believer and someone tells you things like god does not exist or that satan and juju do not exist, you know the kind of feeling you will get, the kind of feeling of great surprise and disgust. . .It will sound completely stupidddd and senseless to you when some one tells you he does not believe in god or some of the many things you strongly believe in. . .I didn't tell the guy that I do not believe in god, just told him that I do not believe in juju, because he is so ignorantly blind and too superstitious. We had a deal, he told me that I have not meet the right juju and he vowed to go to Nigeria and get a very good juju for me. He told me the usual stories about how he saw people doing this and that and how used juju as a cultist in the university to do so many things in Nigeria. He told me that he has used juju himself and told me how his father and his grand father were great juju men, told me how he gave his friends and relatives juju to use, according to him some even took the juju to Europe and US, he said they did so many things with the juju, got riches . . . .Told me that yahoo boys come to him and he takes them to the baba who gives them the do as I say juju so that what ever they tell their mugu the mugu will obey without complains bla bla bla. . .

We had a deal, I bought a return ticket for him. The deal was for him to go and bring the otomopkoh(juju) as he calls it(He is yoruba). We will go to one of the casinos and use it because he claimed his relatives in italy have used it to make big money through gambling there(he has always wanted to go to naija get the juju and raid all the casinos ), he also claimed he will come with do as I say juju as well, he will tell people to give him money and they will obey without question, he was so CONFIDENT. He vowed to enter a bank meet the cashier or manager and tell them to give him money, he vowed that who ever he meets in the bank will give him money without questioning him once he uses the do as I say juju. . .He swore heaven and earth that his juju is 100%, he claimed it belongs to their village bla bla bla and cost only 50 thousand naira. . .It was so serious that I just had to engage him out of anger and give him the money. . .He went to Nigeria came back with the juju showed me. We went to the casino in Aalborg. As usual it failed. . .He placed 20 euros and lost, placed another 20 and lost. He tired 5 times in total and lost 100 euros. . .He was genuinely shocked. The next day we went and tried again, he won 180 euros initially but still lost all the money after a few tries. . .

He tried the do as I say on one woman and received the embarrassment of his life. . .But he STILL believe in juju. . .He still does NOT want to believe that juju does NOT work. . .I am VERY serious. . .He still believes that juju is real. . .After wasting my money. . .The stupidddd fooooool still holds unto his mythical juju belief. . .I am still fixated on this juju nonsense. . .Belief is actually stronger than I thought it was. . .You can HARDLY make some one change his/her beliefs. . .This guy saw his juju fail him despite his TOTAL confidence and belief in juju but still find ways to either blame himself or the juju man that gave him the juju, forgetting that he swore heaven and earth to me of how the man's juju has been tired and tested by him before which actually is not true. . .He just heard stories but was telling me that he saw it, he took people there and it worked for them, he said it worked for him too bla bla bla. . .Belief is a very strong thing. . .I am way past all these endless stories, if you make a claim just prove it else shut up. . .

cyrexx: what anony fails to realise is that exactly the same argument can be made for Allah, Vishnu and Orunmila.

Just imagine if anony had been a muslim with this ability for mental gymnastics....

That is why I want him to give me SPECIFIC objective evidence to show that his god exist on its own independent of stories and mental imaginations so that we can all know it when we come in contact with it. . .If he can not do that and wants to go down the route of god created everything, then what SPECIFIC evidence can he provide for us to know that his god alone created anything. . .I am tired of philosophical ramblings. . .

The problem with believers is when they are talking with each other, they talk about how good their god has been to them, how he speaks to them, how he takes care of them, provides for them, heals them, comforts them etc . . .But when they are talking with atheist, the conversation changes, ask them how god speaks to them and you hear incoherent ramblings. . .

@cyrexx

Your image SAYS it ALL. . .

www.nairaland.com/attachments/953656_when_inventing_a_god_jpg40af31f6efb0e208cc36b0a7be6dc4f6

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Yawn . . . . you are wasting time. You and I both know that the logo of intel is not proof that the source code is a work of design. The source code is a work of design because of it's highly improbable complexity.
If you are not even prepared to entertain the notion that bacteria (whose DNA is much more complex) could even be designed in the first place, and your reason is there is no "branding" or no "video" then you don't have a case and I really can't help you.

The "evidence you are demanding is unreasonable and irrational. It is as bad as me asking you to provide video evidence of evolution or genetic samples from all your ancestors from the bronze age until your immediate parents in order for me to believe that you have ancestors.

When you are ready to employ your reasoning faculties, give me a shout. So far you are just being irrational[/quote]OK,I agree that a bacteria is designed. . .Can you show me that your god alone designed it and not allah?. . .DNA evidence can be used to trace my family tree, I look very much like my dad who also looks very much like his own dad, that is objective evidence enough for any body that knows me to believe that my dad is my dad because we share a specific trait which is resemblance. . .What specific objective evidence that shows that your god exist in the first place, is what I want. . .Please provide a factual description of your god’s characteristics and abilities so that we can be sure and we(atheists) will know it when we see it, hear its voice or come in contact with it. Try to be as specific as possible to avoid ambiguity. We need to be able to differentiate your god from other god's or other phenomena. Your god intelligently designed the bacteria for what purpose and through what process?. . .How can we objectively know that he alone did it and not a collection of many gods coming together and designing the bacteria?

frosbel: Well it's a rather bold, wild and arrogant claim to suggest that nobody knows because you do not know.

We don't care about being mocked, just make sure that when you mock others you have a solid foundation that cannot crumble under the onslaught of demands for proof that your position is tenable.

So far , atheists do not seem to have a harmonious stand on issues, some , funny enough , believe in an intelligent designer, some are evolutionists, others naturalists and many just like you , do not give a damn about our existence and future. What a bundle of confusion.

The common thing all atheists have is a hatred for GOD , the same one who sustains their ungrateful selves, just because he demands certain beautiful moral standards from them.

What is this drivel all about?. . .I can not hate your god because he does not exist. . .Men demand that you live your life in a certain way and ascribed it to a god they created out of their imaginations and you want others to follow it?. . . .The moral standards the men that created your religion and god dictated are not even good in some instance. . . .

frosbel: actually this article was not raised to ask us questions, it was for the purpose of you answering our questions. You can raise a similar article for Christians.

Thus far , your buddies have made a mess of it, maybe you can help.

Thanks.

Firstly, atheism DOES NOT claim to know how life came about. . .Atheism is simply a lack of belief in gods. . .Science and scientist(a lot of whom are theist) came about with their own natural claims and theories of how the earth, life and the entire universe came about. . .Science deals with evidence and is naturalistic by nature, as such they try to provide natural explanations and evidence for their theories. . .Atheism is not science, many atheist accept the scientific explanation because most atheist are naturalist. . .The scientific explanations are deficient as such when knew knowledge or evidence is obtained the theory is either modified or completely discarded. . Atheism DOES NOT project anything. . .It only says gods do not exist. . .It does not claim to know how humans or the universe came about.

I am an atheist as as far as I KNOW, NO body KNOWS how the universe came about. . . And that is the FACT. Every body is just SPECULATING. . .I am not making any claims and I have never made any in that regard. I don't know and I TRULY do NOT care. . If you claim to know how the universe came about then present your objective evidence to me to support your claims or be ready to be ridiculed and mocked when you come up with rubbish and nonsense. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]you haven't still answered my question. do you at least agree that the 3 billion letter DNA that defines bacteria is more complex than the source code of your computer's operating system?[/quote]I am more interested in your objective evidence that Yahweh alone created the 3 billion DNA letter that defines the bacteria. . .The source code of my computer processor is written by a company called Intel, their signature logo is on it and video evidence of them creating the processor is available for all to see and know that they created it. . .If you can provide me an equal evidence to show that your own god alone created the bacteria then I will understand you know what you are talking about. . .As I said, I want objective evidence that your god alone created the bacteria so that if a muslim tells me that his allah created the bacteria, or if an evolutionist tells me that a bacteria evolved form non living things or came from another planet I will show him the objective evidence you have provided to me and also tell him that he is lying. . .Over to your. . .I am waiting for the objective evidence, I am tired of listening to philosophical ramblings. . .Objective evidence ONLY. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Such a long epistle and yet you haven't answered my question.

I didn't ask you whether you thought that bacteria is more advanced than your computer, what I asked is if that counts as evidence of intelligent design for you? If yes, we proceed. If no why not?

I cannot begin to throw evidence at you if I have no idea of what counts as evidence for you. So please answer my question.[/quote]I have given you EXACTLY what counts as evidence for me. . . . .I don't know if my computer is more intelligently designed or advanced than the bacteria. . .The computer is intelligently design for a purpose. . .What is the bacteria intelligently designed for?. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Good so you want objective evidence let us go through a process of question and answer:

Would you consider it evidence for intelligent design that the code that defines the bacteria on your keyboard is by far much more complex and advanced than the code that defines the operating system of your computer? If yes then we move on, if no why not?[/quote]I have moved passed this endless back and forth long time ago. . .If I agree that the bacteria on my key board is by far more complex and advanced than my computer processor how does that p[rove that your own version of god and not another version of god intelligently created the bacteria?. . .For example what if some one insists that allah created the bactaria and shows me corresponding verses in the book of allah(the koran) that allah created the bacteria. How do I know that your god created the bacteria and not allah?. . .

I just want you to provide SPECIFIC objective evidence that shows that your god alone created everything. . .In fact specific objective evidence that shows that your god exist in the first place is what I want. . .Please provide a factual description of your god’s characteristics and abilities so that we can be sure that we(atheists) will know it when we see it, hear its voice or come in contact with it. Try to be as specific as possible to avoid ambiguity. We need to be able to differentiate your god from other god's or other phenomena. So, for example, claiming that your god is love or the universe is all around is evidence for your god is not helpful in the least, because many have claimed that the universe all around us is evidence for their own god as well. . . Claiming that your god is supernatural or beyond the natural, observable universe is also not helpful. If your god is beyond the observable universe then how could you possibly have observed it to conclude that it is real? So again, please provide a factual description of your god’s specific characteristics and abilities that are objective that is self evident.

So please provide me with something objective that distinguishes your belief from imagination, because your belief and god is nothing but imaginations. . . Imagination is forming a mental image of something not present to the senses. Something imaginary exists only in imagination, it lacks factual reality. Subjective notions such as internal personal experiences or feelings are indistinguishable from imagination. If you can't turn to people next to you regardless of their religious beliefs and ask, “Did you see/hear/smell/feel that?” and expect them to say, “Yes we did and experienced it the same way you did” then whatever it is you experienced was likely imaginary. You need to provide something objective that we could all perceive to detect your god and verify that it is real. We need to distinguish objective reality from a subjective reality in which people believe things are as they want or imagine them to be rather than as they are. I am waiting. . .

frosbel: We reject your myths , because they are groundless theories based on science fiction.

And which myth have I proposed?. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]For the same reasons I reject your idea of beauty.[/quote]I never brought the idea of beauty, you did, so deal with it. . .I never made any mention of any beauty, so I really do not understand what you are talking about. . .

I equally asked you a simple question too.

LOL!

That many people claim the same thing is not proof of a lie. Objective evidence is needed. I have asked you a question to help us move towards that but you are more happy to argue irrelevant red herrings good for you.

Provide the objective evidence that your god alone created the universe and not some other gods that have made same claims through their own men, your objective evidence to show that Yahweh created the universe and NOT allah or Vishnu is WHAT?. . .Provide the objective evidence already. . .

Lol....I predicted this. How irrational of you.

Objective evidence is what I want , not endless back and forth that proves NOTHING. .