₦airaland Forum

davidylan: The problem isnt the "lack of education" but complete cowardice from those who are staunch, violent atheists on anonymous web forums but exhibit the bravery of trapped mice in real life.

Violent atheist? . . . And which atheist as ever advocated violence here on nairaland?. . .Your delusion is way too ridiculous. . .Have you wandered why Nigerian atheist are very open when they are in europe or america but hide their atheism in Nigeria? What does that tell you about the Nigerian society?. . .

tbaba1234: Concerning what are they disputing?
Concerning the Great News,
About which they cannot agree.
Verily, they shall soon (come to) know!
Verily, verily they shall soon (come to) know!
(Quran 78 1-5)

Concerning the FACT that you are just following the traditions and cultures of others like you who ascribed divine origins to their cultures and way of life. . . .There is nothing to know about your beliefs that has not been known already. . .

davidylan: Actually, procedure was right. A true convicted christian will NEVER pray in a mosque regardless of the pressure of public opinion BECAUSE you know in your heart that you carry the emblem of Christ that cannot be shared with other gods. A true atheist should be able to boldly declare his faithlessness... why is this not the case with the cowards here?

If society will allow or tolerate it then why not. . .Here in europe where the society allows me to be an atheist without ostracizing me in any way I proudly declare my atheism when ever I am asked. . .In Nigeria atheism is synonymous to being an evil or "devilish" person. . .The people are too close minded, backward and unexposed and uneducated to come to terms that there are people that actually do not believe in god. . .A christian will always be accpeted by muslims even though they feel he is misguided and holds the wrong beliefs same goes for a muslim with christians. . .An atheist completely lacks legitimacy in Nigeria. . .

davidylan: Simples. If atheists truly believe God doesnt exist then why do they waste half their lives here? I dont see you post anywhere else but here... why? Are you starting threads on greek mythology too?

I have no fear of santa claus, you dont see me posting on threads that have anything to do with him either. You on the other hand....

Actually there really isn't any god to be afraid of since all gods are mythical human constructs, but there are real people who believe in the god mythology that atheist need to be afraid of or have to deal with in one way or the other. . .Gods do not exist in reality since all gods are mythical, it is the belief that gods exist that is real. . .

davidylan: I know this was perhaps an attempt at sarcasm.
I have absolutely zero fear of allah being real. I am 100% sure he doesnt exist and the only reason islam piqued my interest at all was after 9/11. Sometimes you get curious to know what sort of ideology drives some to kill the innocent. Before then islam was no more than a word in the dictionary to me.

With regard to never seeing me attack hindus, that is a very daft analogy. For starters there is no hindu thread here to comment on neither do hindus bother me in any way.

I also have ABSOLUTELY NO FEAR OF hell or of any god being real, I am 100% sure that all gods are man made and that all religions are nothing but following the culture and way of life of others. . .As an ex theist I am more interested in why people hold unto very clear and obvious mythologies and legands as facts. . .Why religious people love pretending to know what they know nothing about and why they base their beliefs on obvious superstitions. . .Why they sometimes dislike or hate people for not sharing their delusions etc. . .Claiming you are an atheist in Nigeria will always get you ostracized. . .I just come here to make people know that it is perfectly ok to be an atheist and atheism is a perfect alternative. . .I do NOT fear hell because it does NOT exist in reality it exist ONLY in the imaginations of those that were indoctrinated to accept that mythology. . .

Back in the days a very close friend of mine married a lady that was 31 years old, he was 25 years old then. . .It started off very well, he had to run to lagos to live with her after the wedding cos he had just completed his nysc, his dad was dead and mum wasn't really against the marriage, his siblings and other relatives were completely against it, they got a couple of friends together( her friends mostly) ran to the registry and got married. . .The woman used to work in oceanic bank back in the days. . .He got a job some months after joining her in lagos, it was all good in the beginning but years into the wedding after 2 kids everything just crumbled. . .Issues bordering on respect, ego and what not. . .She was already close to her peak when they meet while he was just trying to find his feet, when he found his feet she could not take the back seat and allow him lead as a man, she still felt he was her smally whom she helped "raised" and showed the way. She felt he was her younger brother and always treated him as such. . .She just refused to accept he had come of age. . .

People also contributed to making him fell trapped in the marriage. .Our friend's kept calling her aunty all the time they just refused to see her as a friend's wife, they saw and treated her like an elder aunty or the way you will treat a mother's friend. . .Always throwing it at his face and reminding him that he married an old cargo(people will never let you be in Nigeria). . .Different issues, she was mostly selfish, the children had to attend the school she chose, always chosing where the family will spend the weekends or vacations, trying to instruct him on how to build his career etc. . .Last time I meet him in abuja they weren't together any more, the marriage was over. . . they have 2 lovely daughters. . .I really thought it would work and really supported them cos the lady is a good woman and very generous. . .Will a marriage between a 23 years old man and a 30 years old woman work in Nigeria?. . .Personally I don't think it will. . .The age difference is too much. . .

davidylan: FEAR is essentially the tool non-religionists use to bash religion as well. For example, would you be just as eager to put down religion if the inherent fear of hell didnt exist? No. you would just treat religion as importantly as greek folk tales that you routinely ignore. FEAR itself is the only reason atheists seem to spend night and day frothing in the mouth about a "God" they claim does not exist. If you truly believe religion is confusion then why have you spent the best part of the last week or two trolling this thread? How can you be so invested in something you claim is a mere fantasy? Could it be the FEAR of being wrong afterall?

The inherent fear that allah is real and will throw you in hell for your unbelief is purely the reason why you have spent years lashing out on muslims on nairaland. . .Why else will you spend years crying about a being your believe is an arabic mythical construct. . .Allah is not god but yet you have spent years castigating this mythical being, no?. . .I know that the fear of being thrown in hell by allah is the reason you are always against islam. . .I have never seen you attack the hindus. . .Could it be the FEAR of being wrong?. . .

Deep Sight: ^^^ That is exactly what I do. People are always saying that my prayer is too short and as such, not "spiritual" enough. My ex used to demand prayer sessions and I would offer a short, almost one-liner. She would do her part by first reading a bible passage, then singing several praise songs, before launching into a long combative prayer in which every member of both our families is individually prayed for. Cute, but tiresome.

Its been so long since last i prayed, I can't even pray any more. . .I haven't found my self in that situation yet, but when it comes I should be able to handle it with a very short prayer. . . .

Islam is a religion of peace just the same way North Korea is a democratic republic. . . .

That is why I love the american republicans. . .Some europeansare just stupi.d, you give in to muslims and yo leout. . . Muslims will NEVER give in or change their way of life in their countries for no body , i wonder why some stupi.d europeans are trying to change their law to favor the slaves of allah. . .

Killing for god is also there in your bible. . . .

Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death.(Deuteronomy 17:2-5)

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13)

agiboma: @ OP have you really thought about this fully. Do you think the grass is greener on the other side. What about your children who will raise them. By the time you leave your hubby will bring someone else into your home, have children with them and forget about you. Woman I would advise you to find a hobby or start a business that makes you happy and forget about your husbands short comings. He is a womannizer from the start you knew that and yet you married him and gave him 3 kids.Look i know how you feel, but womanizers are hard to change and this guy is a typical one. Look their are ways to deal with this type of man that i have discoverd, things that will bring back the spark and romance in your marriage. It's possible OP dont run to divorce court just yet. Try to make your hair, talk to hubby. loose weight if you have too. Go on outings with the family, when he comes home int he evening be friendly. Trust me it goes a long way,when you look @ him try to see the man you loved and married and not the womanizer and source of your misery. How you perceive this man is important because it will either make him draw closer to you or drift apart.

What is this? . . .Some men are can not just have one woman as a sexu[i]a[/i]l partner. . .That is the fact and her husband happens to be one. . .If she doesn't want the marriage, then she is free to go, no amount of good dressing or weight loss will ever change anything. . .I have a friend who has 2 wives but still goes around chasing other ladies. . . .Some men just can not be with one woman. . .Life is too short wasting time over a man that will continue to bring you pain. . .

tbaba1234: 1. Muslims do not subscribe to the evolution theory the way it is presented today. It is a good attempt to explain existence but it has too many holes.

So does the creation story in the koran, it has too many holes in it as well . . .

We do believe however that creatures have changed (evolved??) over time. The description of Adam in the traditions show that he was much bigger than the average man today. So overtime, Man has changed. But the transformation from one species to another is what is not accepted.

Back to the adam myth again, are you one of those that believe that all humans descended from adam and eve? Hope you know that if that claim of yours is true it is supposed to have scientific backing?. . .The DNA can be used to trace and show that all humans descended from one man and one woman, so far the DNA evidence shows that not to be true. . .

The Quran states:

24. He is Allah, the Creator, the Evolver, the Bestower of Forms [or Colours]. To Him belong the Most Beautiful Names: whatever is in the heavens and on earth, doth declare His Praises and Glory: and He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise

The Quran also states:

45. And Allah has created every animal from water: of them there are some that creep on their bellies; some that walk on two legs; and some that walk on four.Allah creates what He wills for verily Allah has power over all things.

We know what determines the existence of life anywhere is water.

All animals were created from water?. . . How?. . .Water determining the existence of animals is very different from animals being created from water. . .So birds and lions were created from water, eh?. . . .

2. I have seen staunch atheists come back to religion, what does that say about deep thought? I have never seen a scholar of the Quran leave Islam... Maybe ordinary muslims but never someone really knowledgeable. The Quran overwhelms you when you know a little about it.

I have seen staunch muslims become atheist or christians. . .The punishment for apostasy and the fear of losing their lives will not allow them to openly declare their atheism. Turan Dursun - a Turkish Islamic scholar and ex-mufti was murdered in 1990 after leaving islam, he had received a lot of death treats from muslim fundamentalist before he was finally killed by them. There are many koranic scholars that are non muslims, they have studied the book in classical arabic and found it to be no different than an other religious books why then do you keep lying that the ran overwhelms people that have a little knowledge about it when may people with in-dept knowledge about it are non muslims?

3. Being smart does not preclude one from being childish or worshiping your ego.

So when a person refuses to accept aged long mythologies that means he is worshiping his ego?

tbaba1234: Great piece

Unveiling Atheism
by Mohamed Ghilan

There is a mantra that is constantly recited by the new science-worshiping atheists, which comes in different versions while essentially saying the same thing. Apparently, the evidence provided by science so far suggests that the existence of God is unlikely. Hence, the sound position one must hold on God’s existence until the evidence suggests otherwise is in the negative or at the very least neutral. It is as if science is the only acceptable methodology of acquiring knowledge. Furthermore, apparently the burden of proof is on the believer. It is the believer who must provide the proof that God exists because it is the believer who proposed His existence in the first place. Until the proof is provided, we must again hold the negative position or at least stay neutral. This, according to atheism, is the rational approach.

Before tackling the evidence issue, we should first examine the proposition that the burden of proof is on the one making the claim. This indeed can be justifiably considered to be the rational position to hold under usual circumstances. But is it necessary under all circumstances? John Stewart Mill wrote an interesting essay in 1869 entitled “The Subjection of Women”, in which he was addressing the issue of the rights of women in society at the time. Before tackling the matter, he acknowledged that proposing equal rights for both genders is unorthodox given the values upheld by just about everyone in his society, including intellectuals. Even women themselves were indoctrinated in such a way that they viewed their lesser status and lack of rights in society as natural order. So before getting into the subject and addressing how his society has become that way and why it should change, he brought up the issue of the burden of proof. In circumstances in which the great majority hold a belief of any kind, what the dissenting voice must do is bring forth their case and prove it. In other words, rather than the accused being innocent until proven guilty, they become guilty until proven innocent. So rather than throwing up his hands and saying that what his society is doing is incorrect, Mill wrote a lengthy treatise to establish that the proper thing for a society is to have women enjoy equal rights as men.

Where this comes in with atheists is straightforward. The proposition that the believer must provide evidence for God, and until then we should remain either atheists or agnostic is problematic when we have had, since the beginning of history records, humans having engaged in some form of religious rituals and having acknowledged the existence of God. This is not an appeal to antiquity or to popularity. It is simply a pointing to a fact of life. It does not establish the truth of the claim that God exists, nor does it point to the fallaciousness of the claim that God does not exist. All this fact does is put the burden of proof on the atheist rather than the believer since he is the one dissenting from the great majority. The atheist must undertake the task of proving the negative, which contrary to what many atheists seem to think, is not an impossibility.

When it comes to the issue of evidence, it seems to be a word that is used in an unrestricted fashion by atheists to support their final conclusions. If anything, this reflects either a simpleton mind, or an ulterior motive driving atheists. The broad term “evidence” is defined as a body of information that points towards the validity of a claim. However, because there are several types of evidence, we cannot simply make the broad request of anyone to provide “evidence”. Depending on the matter at hand, we must define the type of evidence we need in order to be convinced. At the very least, we should qualify whether we want direct evidence, or can be persuaded by indirect evidence if it is strong enough.

But let us take this a step back further than just defining “evidence’ and identifying which types are there. The question we should address first if we want to restrict ourselves to pure logic and avoid all fallacies is: can any evidence, irrespective of type, be sufficient to prove that God exists? It would seem that from the atheist perspective the answer to this question is a simple “No”. Regardless of what type of evidence they are provided with, atheists will always have some response to it, which can be frustrating to the believer as they list all the reasons why a belief in God is actually the more rational position to hold. The problem is not with the evidence from an empirical sense. The problem is with the rationalization process that comes after being presented with the evidence, which leads us into a discussion about the nature of knowledge, which we can address elsewhere.

Hubris is the state of the science-worshipping atheists. In a sense, it can be understood why they have become this way. Being able to observe the deep universe, examine the cosmos, send all kinds of technology into outer space, while at the same time be able to manipulate genomes, alter bacteria, play around with viruses, and control diseases are all very impressive feats. Mankind has surpassed its wildest historical imaginations of what it can accomplish. But this does not necessarily mean that our intellectual capacity or ability to reason has also progressed. In fact, it can be argued that we have become more confused as a generation and many are deluded into thinking that they are rational. The vast majority of books put out and read by science-worshipping atheists are sophistical in their reasoning and embarrassing in their conclusions.

The interesting question for the science-worshipping atheist to answer is whether it is about the belief in God, or the consequences of believing in God that are a problem. In other words, is it a matter of acknowledging God’s existence, or a matter of acknowledging what it means to their life after acknowledging God’s existence? It would be interesting to see if for an atheist it is more about an attachment to a hedonistic lifestyle where the caprices and desires are fulfilled without restriction, combined with a hubristic vision of their intellectual capacities and human abilities, than it is being about the actual question of God’s existence. It is reported that in his last recorded interviews, Jean Paul Sartre said he had reflected upon his reasons for atheism and found them to be childish. Whether this is true or not is debatable. But it does reflect a type of recognition of the human condition when it comes to our desires. We become like children when we want something and don’t have a barrier stopping us. And when the parent puts the barrier we get upset. This continues until we can finally move out of the house so we can be “free”. That is what Sartre was talking about. Atheism to him was just a delusion of freedom that dissipated when he finally was being intellectually honest with himself.

It seems that science-worshipping atheists are using science and what they call “reason” as veils to cover their dissatisfaction with being told to bow to something greater than they can comprehend. More interestingly, they also seem to be using these veils to cover up their discontent with being told “do this and don’t do that”. This is not to say that some of their other problems with “religion” might be justified. But given their being taken with sophistical reasoning, they readily confuse actions, statements, and even beliefs of individuals with what their respective religions actually teach. Moreover, what these science-worshipping atheists failed to recognize is that in their rejection of God, they have taken their own egos to be gods and became autodeists. Now they are organizing to form their own brand of religion full of moral theory and even practices, which they began to call people to so they can be “saved”. How ironic?

http://muslimvillage.com/2012/04/24/22426/unveiling-atheism/

Is the author riling against science or atheism? Religion is based SOLELY o mythology, superstition and fantasies. . .No god has ever been shown to exist on its own independent of human writings,special pleadings, societal acceptance and human cultural way of life. . . .All gods are purely a human constructs and every religion is a culture end of story. . .

tbaba1234: And i say give me one that says batter your wife

Ibn kathir
Ibn abbas
Ibn Qayyim

Anyone

Everyone will agree on the point that you do not leave any marks on your wife or strike her on the face.

Some muslim preachers use the verse to justify wife battery, the koran says women are to be beaten as part of punishment when they go off course. . .You can beat your wife on the back, buttocks, legs, belly, arms causing serious pains while leaving no marks no?. . .Beating your wife(without causing injuries) is considered wife battery in many parts of the world..

Kay 17: Religion is really opium of the people.a

The new old thing is to threaten ppl with Hell when confronted by reason and commonsense. If thinking is not what guides us from errors, what will??

Jmoore is a big clown. . .

tbaba1234: Give me one prominent muslim scholar that says that verse promotes battery otherwise just do not tell us what the Quran says.

Iran and Saudi Arabia do not operate islamic systems... They have islamic banks but their economies are dependent on interests as well because of the global system is dependent on it.

All what i have stated is that there is no consensus on the issue. . . .Some use the passage to justify wife battery while others do not. . .No consensus. . .Even the othman empire which you love to cite as an empire that practiced the real sharia law collapsed economically, during the othman period majority of the people were poor. . .

tbaba1234: This is quite disgraceful to be honest...

I would attempt to help you:

ays ibn Sa'd Narrated: I went to al-Hirah and saw them (the people) prostrating themselves before a satrap (governor of a province in ancient Persia) of theirs, so I said: The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) has most right to have prostration made before him. When I came to the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him), I said: I went to al-Hirah and saw them prostrating themselves before a satrap of theirs, but you have most right, Apostle of Allah, to have (people) prostrating themselves before you. He said: Tell me , if you were to pass my grave, would you prostrate yourself before it? I said: No. He then said: Do not do so. I[b]f I were to command anyone to make prostration before another I would command women to prostrate themselves before their husbands, because of the special right over them given to husbands by Allah. [Hadith: Sunan Abu Dawud, 11:2135][/b]

Al-Hirahwas an ancient city located south of al-Kufah in south-central Iraq. It was strongly influenced by the Christians and Persians (present day Iran). As can be seen from the hadith, the people in Al-Hirah were bowing down to their rulers to show respect and honor to them. The narrator of the hadith says that the Prophet (s) has more right (to be respected and honored) and should be prostrated than these rulers. The Prophet (S) forbade it and said IF I were to allow such a thing than it would be for the wife to the husband, to show respect and honor him.

Bowing is only to be done before Allah and no one else, which is why the Prophet (s) did not allow it. So why would the Prophet (S) say that? If we look at the rights, duties and obligations of the husband than it is easy to understand why the husband would be worthy of being showing respect and honor to.

Ibn 'Umar reported that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, "All of you are shepherds and each of you is responsible for his flock. A man is the shepherd of the people of his house and he is responsible. A woman is the shepherd of the house of her husband and she is responsible. Each of you is a shepherd and each is responsible for his flock." [Al-Adab al-Mufrad Al-Bukhari 212]

Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said of his household: “Allaah will ask every shepherd about that which was entrusted to his care, whether he took care of it or neglected it, and He will even ask a man about his family.” [Narrated by Ibn Hibbaan, classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Ghaayat al-Maraam, no. 271]

And he said: “It is sufficient sin for a man to neglect those who are under his care.” [Narrated by Ahmad and Abu Dawood from the hadeeth of ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Amr; classed as hasan by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami’, no. 827.]

And he said: “There is no man whom Allaah causes to be appointed to a position of responsibility and he does not discharge his duties sincerely, but he will not even smell the fragrance of Paradise.” [Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6731]

So you see the husband is responsible for providing his family spiritual and worldly needs. He is to provide for them food, shelter, safety, etc. and he is to provide them spiritual guidance and help them keep on the right path. If he neglects his duties and the kids grow up spoiled or even leave Islam than who is responsible? If wife is gossiping, lying neglecting Islam, not fulfilling her shepherd and the husband fails to reprimand her, then who is responsible? So you see the husband has higher responsibility and more chances of going to hellfire because of not only himself but his family as well.

So it was not to show supremacy over another but rather respecting and honoring one who has great obligations and accountability. But bowing is to be done before no one but Allah and that is why he (s) did not allow it.

The man has greater responsibility and should be respected but this does not supremacy as everyone will be judged according to their deeds.

What has this long epistle got to do with any anything. . . .According to the hadith the prophet said If he were to command anyone to make prostration before another he would command women to prostrate themselves before their husbands, because of the special right over them given to husbands by Allah. . .Men have special rights according to him. . .making them greater than women, he even said if he were to command any body to bow to another it will be women that will bow to their husbands. . .What does that tell you?. . .

There are other hadith about the same incident, which shows us the context of the hadith in question, Ibn `Abbas said:

I attended Eid prayers with the Prophet (PBUH), and (after his death) with Abu Bakr, `Umar and `Uthman. All of them used to perform the prayer before the khutbah. The Prophet (PBUH) came down (from the minbar) - and it is as if I can see him now, gesturing to them to sit down - then he would come through the crowd, until he reached the women. Bilal was with him, and he recited: ( O Prophet! When believing women come to you to take the oath of fealty to you, that they will not associate anything whatever with Allah . . .) (Qur'an 60:12), until the end of the ayah. Then he said, `Are you adhering to that?' Only one woman answered, `Yes, O Prophet of Allah (PBUH),' and he did not know at that time who she was 40. He said, `Then give sadaqah,' and Bilal spread out his cloak. The Prophet (PBUH) said, `Come on, may my father and my mother be sacrificed for you!' So they began to throw their rings and jewellery onto Bilal's cloak."


(Fath al-Bari, 2/466, Kitab al-'idayn, bab maw'izat al-imam al-nisa'a yawn al-'id; Sahih Muslim, 6/171, Kitab salat al-'idayn.)

The Prophet (PBUH) addressed the women in the Eid prayer-place, reminding them about their religion, and that he took charity from them, reconfirmed their adherence to their oath of allegiance, enjoined them to remember the teachings of Islam, and motivated them to do good works. All of this was achieved by calling them to attend the congregational prayer on both Eids. This is indicative of the importance of congregational prayer in the life of the Muslim individual and the Islamic society.

The Prophet (PBUH) was concerned with the teaching and guidance of women, and wanted them to play a part in building the Muslim society, so he devoted part of his khutbah to women. He would come to the place where the women were gathered, and exhort and remind them, and he made doing this a duty of the imam.

People always attribute to the Prophet, peace be upon him, the suggestion that women are inferior to men on grounds of a deficient mind a lack of faith. This is far from true.

Let us look at the Hadith in full: “On the occasion of Eid, either that of sacrifice or that of ending the fast, the Prophet, peace be upon him, went to the prayer place, and then went to speak to women and he said: “Ladies! I have not seen people deficient in mind and religion yet can get away with a rational man’s mind like any one of you.” They asked: “How are we deficient in mind and religion, Messenger of God?” He said: “Is it not true that a woman’s testimony counts as half that of a man?” When they answered in the affirmative, he said: “This is her mental deficiency. Is it not true that when a woman is in her period she neither prays nor fasts?” They again answered in the affirmative. He said: “This is her religious deficiency.” (Related by Al-Bukhari and Muslim)


To start with, the Prophet, peace be upon him, was speaking to a congregation of women on a joyous occasion. Exemplary in his care for others, particularly his companions, and kind and compassionate as he was, it is inconceivable that he would insult them by such a statement, if he meant it as a statement of fact, like some of us do. The Prophet, peace be upon him, simply used this phrase “deficient in mind and religion” to alert them to what he wanted to say to them. The Prophet, peace be upon him, frequently uses such a method, inserting some words that may not be relevant to the point he wants to stress, so that they serve to attract the attention of his audience. From the other Hadith about this occasion we saw that the prophet wanted to encourage women to give alms / saqada. Furthermore, his statement expresses amazement at a well-known situation, when a man is infatuated by a woman to the extent that his behavior changes in character. He may be wise and intelligent, yet he could easily behave in a way that is inconsistent with his intelligence and wisdom when he is so infatuated. This is a case where a woman who is generally weaker than a man can control him.


The Hadith mentions that the Prophet’s women audience asked him to clarify what he said. His clarification pinpoints certain aspects that suggest no inferiority whatsoever. The mental deficiency is related to the fact that in certain cases, two women witnesses are required in place of one-man witness. This has to do with the role of each of the two sexes in Islamic society. It is no reflection on a woman’s mental ability. As for religious deficiency, the Prophet, peace be upon him, states the fact that a woman is exempt from prayer and fasting when she is in menstruation. While God gives a woman the reward for prayer and fasting as if she has done them, since she stops only because of her condition and in response to God’s orders, still the fact that she does not fulfill these duties means that her worship is less in terms of what she offers. It does not mean that she is a lesser believer.

As for a relevant statement of fact in this regard, the Prophet, peace be upon him, says, “Women are full sisters of men.” In the Arabic text, the Prophet, peace be upon him, uses here a word, which implies total similarity and equivalence. Hence, the Prophet’s statement suggests no inferiority attached to women. The Qur’an and the Sunnah assign the same duties to both men and women, and promise them the same reward. If this does not mean the same status, I would like to know what does.
May I add here that the translation of this Hadith as quoted is wrong, because it splits the relevant sentence and gives the Prophet's words in such a way that they appear to make a statement of fact. This is wrong, as I have explained.

As for the other part, a full translation of it goes as follows: “‚I have seen hell and I have never seen any thing more horrific than what I saw then. I also saw that the majority of its dwellers are women. ‚ They asked: “On what grounds, Messenger of God? He said: “By their denial.‚ They said: “Their denial of God?‚ He answered: “No. Their denial of their spouses and their denial of kindness. You may be kind to one of them all the time, but when she finds fault with you she says: I have never received any kindness from you. ‚”


To start with, the Hadith does not say that most women are in hell. It says that the majority of hell dwellers are women, which simply signifies that more women fail in this worldly test than men. Then the Prophet, peace be upon him, points out their failure, which is not based on denying God. Rather, it is denying kindness, particularly in marital situations. The Prophet, peace be upon him, has pointed this out in more than one Hadith, warning women against grumbling and frequent complaints. He is also warning them here against denying kindness by their husbands, highlighting a failing that is often expressed in denying past kindness.

The Hadith shows that women can easily avoid such a destiny by being fair and appreciative of kindness. They should always be grateful to God for what He has given them and also be appreciative of any kindness done to them by others, particularly those with whom they live, be they their husbands, parents or other relatives.

What is all this long epistle that debunks nothing?. . .Did the prophet say that women are deficient in their religion? Yes. . .Did he say that there will be more women in hell? Yes. . .Did he say that men are better intelligent than women? Yes. . .so what is it with this long epistle?. . .It did not even address the hadith, it went to another hadith and the author just kept writing and writing away. . .

joe4christ: Please i'm not here for arguement, if u think allah can save you pls hold tight to him.

But i can categorically tell you with all certainty that only Jesus can save, there is no other way to everlasting life but through Jesus, but it's quite unfortunate that most have missed it already.

I know you stated the above just to get me say something you would capitalise on to desrupt my thread, but i did'nt create this thread for argument, i created this thread for the record of it and so it would stand as a testimony to the fact that you once heard the gospel preached to you but your choosed to turn deaf ears to it.

Deep withen you all u know there must be an intelligent being behind the design of the whole universe but u keep on fighting it, even though u have your doubt u still known there are possibilities of it being true.

Jesus is behind it, if u still do not admit it now you would, someday, but i just hope it would'nt be too late.

Bless you all!

And i say that there is no god but allah and mohammed is his last messenger, believe it or rot in hell. . i pray that allah will have mercy on you and save you from the fire of hell. . .believe in allah and his last messenger or rot in hell forever for your disbelief. . .There is no god but allah and only he an save your lost soul. . .

tbaba1234: Nowhere in the Quran does it say that men are superior to women. Men and women will all be judged equally on the Day of Resurrection and no one will be given preference for their sex on that day.

The hadith and the prophet mohammed believe that men are superior to women. . .

Qays ibn Sa'd Narrated: I went to al-Hirah and saw them (the people) prostrating themselves before a satrap (governor of a province in ancient Persia) of theirs, so I said: The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) has most right to have prostration made before him. When I came to the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him), I said: I went to al-Hirah and saw them prostrating themselves before a satrap of theirs, but you have most right, Apostle of Allah, to have (people) prostrating themselves before you. He said: Tell me , if you were to pass my grave, would you prostrate yourself before it? I said: No. He then said: Do not do so. If I were to command anyone to make prostration before another I would command women to prostrate themselves before their husbands, because of the special right over them given to husbands by Allah. [Hadith: Sunan Abu Dawud, 11:2135]

Bowing down to a man means a sign of supremacy. . .Men are allowed to marry many women at a time. . .

Even the prophet was written to have stated that women are less intelligent than me are will be more in hell. . .

Sahih Bukhari, Book 6: Menstrual Periods, Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301 it states: Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (Mosque to offer the prayer) of 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)."
They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?"
He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you."
The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?"
He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?"
They replied in the affirmative.
He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?"
The women replied in the affirmative.
He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."

The claim that islam does not support wife battery is a farce, why tap your wife lightly, what will t achieve?. . ."And beat them" is what the koran says. . . Different interpretation and opinion of scholars is what tbaba123 is swelling , some scholars believe that you can eat them but do not leave any mark on their skin. Others believe that you should beat them with shot sicks so that you shouldn't leave marks. . .Other say the beating should be a light tap. . .There is non consensus on the way and manner the beatings are to be administered, giving the opinion and interpretation of some scholars as tbaba123 s dong here is a bit disingenuous . . .

On the issue of islamic finance, there are so many islamic banks in operation in iran and saudi arabia, all of them are mostly state owned and can not survive on their own without the state shoring them up. . .islamic banking has its advantages but will not survive and develop tthe global economy like the ones we have in place now despite all their flaws. . .During the othman empire majority of the people were poor. . .

vedaxcool: The cries of an insecure mind . . . It remains baffling that after training you on simple common sense on how to respond to simple statement, you are yet to display that your thinking faculty has not been hacked by animal $tupidity neither is your new system of lying to validate you flawed brain encrypted with multi dimensional forms of 1mbecility any more encouraging as where did I write atheist celebrate when new convert enter their fold? Ehh mr. Electricity was invented! When did I write atheist are insecure. Hence looking for numbers to validate their disbelief? You are certainly a liar and failure to quote my statement that indicated the above would mean you are derelict imbeci1 who tell lies to validate his insecurity, if you are not insecure about your disbelief you would at the very least not tell lies to prove your truths, you response continue to show why atheism is attractive mainly to those who dumb and dullards! Or how else do we explain the indiscriminate use of lies as valid technique in proving your point? It remains little wonder why he has prefered calling muslims at every juncture to refute a statement that referred to atheists on nl! I wonder even baby atheist and in5ane atheist over there seems more sensible and coherent in addressing issues than mr. Electricity was invented and tell me you did not punch your computer because veda made you look the Foool that you really are! U remain a good case against atheism .

This is what you wrote you deluded imbe[i]c[/i]ile. . . .

vedaxcool: @ op well good for you, Islam lost nothing by ur conversion if there had been such conversion, for all it is worth, there are many individuals Islam can do with out. The prophet pbuh predicted that a time will come when people will openly deny God, and certainly we live in that time, I remain clear, when I read such conversion "stories" it remains their lost, as Allah gains nothing from ur belief or disbelief in him!Seeing the atheist jubilant makes laugh it validates my thoughts towards them that they suffer serious insecurity in their disbelief and are looking for a herd to make their irrational claim as normal as in we plenty wey disbelief in God! Alhamdulilah the disbelievers seek to extinguish the light of Allah, yet Allah continue to perfect his life.

How did I lie? I really do not expect any body that believes that coffee is a scientific invention of islam to really understahd what he wrote. . .Imagine the imbe[i]c[/i]ile asking me where he stated that atheist are insecure?. . I laugh in arabic. . . . .Now you can go bath in pork after destroying everything in your room you rabid and violent deluded wanna be slave of an imaginary arabic construct. . .

OP leave paranoia out of your marriage as some one rightly stated. . .

joe4christ: Reading through your signature, i just could not but pity you, you're realy in bundage of darkness but it's quite unfortunate that you cannot just see it for yourself cos the day a mad man realizes that he's insane that madness has just lost it's grip over that individual.

I'll continue to remember you guys in my prayer hoping God will open your eyes someday beyond the veil of the natural to supernatural realm so you could see things for yourself without anyone telling how it is, maybe then you would believe.

Natural, supernatural..Bla bla bla. . . There is no god but allah and you will rot in hell for not accepting islam and mohammed as his last messenger. . .

tbaba1234: Not true? from 2001, :: Estimates put it at 20,000 converts per year as opposed to just 6000 before then: 75% of them are women.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfx4glTU5JQ NBC News

In the United States, for example, nearly 80 percent of the more than 1,200 mosques have been built in the past 12 years.

http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/9704/14/egypt.islam/ (CNN)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12075931 (BBC)

Some people do leave due to family pressures, doubts or difficulty in practising... but those that stay are often times better muslims than born muslim.

If you go to the mosques, you would notice the increase in new muslims: It is still a small percentage of the population but there is definitely a growth trend.

In the gulf, there is also an increase in conversion from foreigners living there>>>

http://www.thenational.ae/news/uae-news/increasing-number-converting-to-islam

I specifically said a scholar of the Quran:: Everyone with a little knowledge of classical Arabic (not standard Arabic) will tell you about the brilliance of the book>:

A muslim sees it as signs from God.....

A secular person will call it just a brilliant piece of literature. ....

The intricacies of Quranic Arabic is quite frankly uncomparable to anything in the arabic language.

Either way any one that carries out a honest study will end up with a similar conclusion.

Again I repeat NOT true, I notice that muslims love to hype and blow things out of proportion all the time. . .The fact remains that very few people in the west convert to islam compared to those that migrate there or the high birth rates. . .Less than 1 percent of American muslims are converts. . .Less than 1 percent of German and British muslims are convert but muslims will not tell you that, they will keep telling you that islam is rising in the west but studies have shown that majority of converts are ex criminals and most convert to islam in prisons according to this report http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/14/AR2007091402265.html . . . .The fact is that muslim converts are a very tiny minority and the increase in the musims population is as a result of migration and high muslim birth rates and NOT conversion as muslims will like to have people believe, you can not claim high increase in numers when conversion accounts for less than 1 percent of the entire muslim population. . .

A recent research by a muslim scholar called Prof Illays ba Yunus says that about 75% of converts in the united states leave islam after some time. . .

About the koran, sure its a good piece of literature, but so is the bible, verders and other ancient books. . .There is NOTHING written inside the koran that could not have been written by men that lived in the world at that time. . .Nothing written in the koran that could not be written by humans and there are many books in the world today that are better than it. . .So i really don't understand this brilliance that is always associated with it. . .

Pastor Andrew Ozoemena should tell people he just wants to open a new church and is looking for a strategy to make his name popular. . .The family of "pastors" are just looking for ways to expand their church business and break away from the living faith church and open their own church business. . .Only in Nigeria will people believe this garbage, the Nigerian print media is so useless that they report all sort of nonsense from a human being turning into a motor bike to a human being turning into a vulture to this garbage about a woman resurrecting after 12 days. . . .SMH, no wonder the country is the way it is. . .Nonsense!. . .

tbaba1234: This argument is so petty:

Islam is growing in the west as a result of the birth-rate and an increase in the number of conversion... Over the last year, personally i have seen maybe about 60 people revert to islam here in the US. They are all still muslims. The conversions come from all spheres including staunch atheists and christians. You will never hear of a scholar of the Quran leaving Islam.... Once, you have an understanding of this book, Atheism is impossible because the proofs are overwhelming.

Atheism and Islam are on a growth curve for similar but opposite reasons.

Islam believes that there is a rational basis for the belief in God; the Quran, the life of Muhammad,et.c
Atheism says that religion has no rational basis..

Have a sane discussion...

Increased number of conversion? Not true. . .Is there any statistical data that can point to this?. . .Peronal anecdotes is of no value in such a situation. . .I know many muslims that are now ex muslims here in europe. . .But I will not use personal anecdotes here. . .A research conducted by a muslim scholar showed that majority of westerners that convert to islam leave the religion after some years. . .Islam is rising in the west ONLY because muslims are running from muslim nations to the west for better opportunities and not because of conversion. . . .Your analogy is the same as claiming that christianity is on the rise in the gulf because of influx of westerners there. . . .

There are islamic scholars that are non muslim so what is it about your islamic scholars not leaving islam?. . .You keep talking about the koran when there are better books that explain everything much more than it. . .What is so special about the book?

Is buzugee a Nigerian?. . . .

vedaxcool: MA+D man! . After teaching how to sensibly respond to my statement, u failed woefully in making any more sense than the screams of a drunken monkey stop making a complete fool of yourself Mr. Electricity was invented! Why don't you call martian ur lap dog to help since apparently he knows what you mean when u say electricity was invented pathetican! Are atheists this dumb? In my previous post I made an assertion that atheist will eventually ask counter questions than address the issues at hand occasioned by their insecure minds and nothingness of atheism, posts later mr electricity was invented validated my assertion! On reading his response which mimics the barking of a rabid dog, one has to wonder whether all is well? The derelict 1mbecil has again work wonders with his compulsive display of animal $tupidity! We wonder whether your atheist allies will think well of you, first you asserted that electricity was invented and now this! Mazaje is a good case against atheism truth be told lol! And please do laugh not just in arabic but hebrew, aramic etc we know when you responded to my post, you were a little bit close to assaulting you computer . . . Or you could have laughed only if you had some sort of menta1 illness that is commonly associated sadism! Lol!

Keep yapping like the mad dog that you are. . .I repeat i just love replying foools with their folly. . .You claimed that atheist celebrate when a new person join their ranks, you also claimed that atheist are in-secured as a result of this and hence rely on numbers to make them feel secured and normal. . .I chose to reply your imbecilic nonsense in the only language you understand so that you can see how stupi.d and foolis.h you are. . .Muslims are known all over the world to celebrate when people convert to islam. . .They offer gifts both monetary and non monetary gifts to new converts, some even give their daughters to new converts to marry as gifts for converting to islam. . .Since muslims celebrate the conversion of others into islam that means they are insecured according to vexdacool who believes that coffee is a scientific invention of islam,no?. . .You also claimed that atheist are looking for numbers, when we know that muslims are the ones that always use numbers to brag all the time. . .You even used numbers to brag on this thread. . .I just wanted to point out the irony in your post so that you can see how stupi.d and nonsensical your post was, but as usual the irony escaped you. . . Assault my computer?. . .Its not every body that loves violence like you do, you just said what you do when angry, no?. . .you go about assaulting people and breaking stuffs when you are mad, no?. . .sorry i am not like you. . .keep on breaking things you deluded slave of an imaginary arabic construct. . .When you are done breaking everything in your room you can go bath in pork. . .fooool. . .

vedaxcool: The cries of an insecure mind . . . Mr. Electricity was invented when would u stop displaying animal $tupidity? Whenever I read your response I always certainly conclude atheists are nothing and atheism is nothing. Or how else does one read a statement that was addressing atheists and ends up asking questions that had no bearing on the statement! Ehh mr. I got a million dols in my acct? That you are a DELUDED SLAVE OF godlessness should not make u a complete imbeci1, I deliberately did not address you question because it bore all the hall marks of atheistic $tupidity and uncommon foolery. My statement was very clear, I wondered whether the mental illness some associate with atheism have not taken hold of you. How does one reply a statement that says "validated my thoughts that atheist suffer serious insecurity in their disbelief" with muslims are insecure? Mr. Electricity was invented we know u are dumber than rock salt but atleast in responding to questions your famed dumbness that fooled you to believe electricity was invented should have atleast serve you better in responding coherently to statement that you find discomfitting. And yet you expected answer to questions that came from the depths of your stup1dity? No, pertheticans like you are not worth the effort indeed! This behavior of yours is not new, you always certainly answer question like this, it seems an atheist standard method of responding to queries or statement, rather than address the issues raise, simply ask counter question in a bid to save their insecure mind from probing the disbelief they follow! Again when you are thru hurling your LIES sorry LIES of your brain washer know it can not harm Islam anymore than taking a drop of water from sea can do to the volume of the sea.
It is fools like yourself that makes atheism a Cheap joke no one really want to laugh at, until u can respond sensibly to questions without thinking that electricity was invented, we will have to settle that all your yapping was merely acting out of impulse stemming from the insecurity you have about ur disbelief rather than a sensible coherent reply which serves the basis of all discourse. The statement was not a comparison btw insecurity in Islam and atheism it was merely about insecurity that atheist face in their disbelief and their need for validation, any sensible person would have responded to the claim by disapproving it or agreeing to it, but when dealing with a man that believes Electricity was invented . . .

What is this slowpoke and deluded slave of an arabic imaginary entity yapping about?. . .You claimed that atheist are insucure in their unbelief and as such they want others to join their bandwagon. . .I always have a way of answering deluded foools than can not see beyond their noses. . .How does making others join your belief or unbelief amount to insecurity?. . .Do muslims not go about urging people to join their bubble of delusion called islam?. . .So muslims are also in-secured, no?. . .Muslims not only go about urging people to join their bubble of delusion but also kill others that decide to leave the bubble of delusion, is that not true?. . .I do not expect a person that supports coffee as a scientific invention of islam to understand anything. . .The fact that the irony escapes you is no surprise to me. . .Muslims are the only ones that presently go about killing others as a religious duty in the world today. . .death for apostasy, death for blasphemy, killing to spread the delusion that is islam ,etc. . .All the islamic terrorist groups go about killing other unbelievers as a religious duty, no?. . .How will some one that believes that coffe is a scientific invention of islam understand anything?. . .I laugh in arabic the language of allah. . .

vedaxcool: ^
It remains gladenning to the heart that u continue to validate the irrational basis your atheism is founded upon. It is on this basis that only people of weak intellect take ur arguments to any more valid than mazaje's claim that electricity was invented

Coming from the same slowpoke that was supporting lagos shia when he stated that coffee is one of the scientific inventions and contributions of islam. . .

vedaxcool: The cries of an insecure mind . . . When u are thru hurling your lies against Islam know that for hundreds of years Christendom spent all its energy denigrating Islam, lies against Muhammad pbuh
Lies against Allah lies against Islam, but alass like balloon all their lies neither hurt Islam nor destroy it rather we see that today Islam is found in places where the church authorities used to denigrate Islam. Islam without the much help from muslims have continue to go wide and far, from the lies of sept 11 to today more people are trooping into the deen of Allah, the more you lie the more the saner segment of society do their research and fing that you and ur cohorts are nothing more than Liars and play thing of the devil. Even the catholic church admitted that most of charges of violence against Islam are false propaganda. Islam is Allah mercy on humanity leave it or join it, the loss or gain is yours and yours alone.

What is this deluded slave of the imaginary arabic invented myth saying?. . .I asked a simple question, and this deluded slave of an imaginary entity went of tangent. . .If muslims are secured in their beliefs why then do they kill apostates?. . .You keep LYING that islam is spreading. . .Islam is NOT spreading through conversion rather muslims are leaving the violent islamic countries like pakistan, iraq,libya,india, syria, iran, bahrain, afganistan, yemen, somalia in very large numbers to the "infidel" west for refuge and better livelihood. . .High birthrates of muslims in western nations is what is making heir populations grow not conversion . .A research done by a muslims scholar that was posted her on NL showed that majority of western converts revert and leave islam after a few years. . .

The charges of violence against islam and muslims remains a fact. . .Muslims are the only group of people that go about kiling people and chanting allah is great. . .Muslims are the only group of people today that believe in killing others as a religious duty. . .If allah is not an imaginary mythology when then do muslims have to fight for him when ever he or his deluded prophet are insulted?. . .Why doesnt he strike the people that insults him himself since he is so much against blasphemy? why wait upon his murderous slave to do the killings on his behalf?. . .I thought according to the mythology he is al powerful?. . .An all powerful deity that needs his slaves to kill people that mock him or spread his word through the sword and kill those that leave his chosen part right? Sure muslims are "secured" in their beliefs. . .

OP, we have heard now we are very afraid. . .