₦airaland Forum

I got this reasons from some where, I added a little to it and it completely sums up why I do not believe in God and religion. Here are the reasons. . .


[b]*[/b]There is not one iota of unequivocal evidence that any God exists.

[b]*[/b]God cannot explain all that exists because God itself cannot be explained. This claim just gratuitously swaps one mystery for another.

[b]*[/b]Religions do not explain any mechanism or process whereby God created everything. It is effectively an appeal to magic.

[b]*[/b]Religious faith is generally indistinguishable from gullibility. Trust and faith, as human concepts, are normally based on experience and reason. Religious faith is necessarily based on belief in unproved and unknowable things.

[b]*[/b]A god or anything that exists outside the realm of natural reality is necessarily unknowable, unintelligible and incoherent. It is therefore irrational to believe in something that is supernatural.

[b]*[/b]Religious scripture:
[b]*[/b]is man-made
[b]*[/b]contains many translation, historical and scientific and interpretation errors
[b]*[/b]is often self-contradictory
[b]*[/b]often contradicts known facts
[b]*[/b]promotes conversion by violence
[b]*[/b]calls for punishment and death to unbelievers
[b]*[/b]contains virtually no specific and unequivocal predictions
[b]*[/b]contains only vague predictions beyond its own time
[b]*[/b]contains many failed prophecies, predictions and unfulfilled promises of God
[b]*[/b]Scripture contains too much that is vague, metaphorical and symbolic to be instructions from a divine being to humans. A perfect being would be expected to be able to communicate much better than that.

[b]*[/b]In order to render most of scripture useful, it must necessarily be interpreted. This makes it easily twisted to support nefarious purposes.

[b]*[/b]The problems with scriptures outweigh any good messages they may contain. If read at all, they should be considered opinion and philosophy and taken with a grain of salt.

[b]*[/b]Morals are based on human sympathy and empathy not on divine guidance. it varies from culture to culture and is always evolving. Establishing moral codes based on theism is unnecessary, riddled with contradictions, and fraught with danger.

[b]*[/b]Religion is divisive in that it pits groups of otherwise indistinguishable people against one another. There are already more than enough differences for humans to fight over. And religion is the most intransigent of such divisions because many people feel it is a divine duty to revile those who believe differently than they do even if they don't see the reason in it.

[b]*[/b]Religions are generally intractable when it comes to substantive compromise with other religions or belief systems.

[b]*[/b]All suggested ways to perceive God rely on internal mechanisms that are subject to personal desires, suggestion, and mistakes. On the question of communicating with God, religion insidiously asks us all to deceive ourselves.

[b]*[/b]People are animals. We are only special due to our more developed brain. (We share 98% of our DNA with chimpanzees)

[b]*[/b]Every culture that has existed has had God myths and other superstitions. This is often used as an argument for the existence of God. Rather than indicating that there is a true God, this indicates that people are simply attracted to the idea.


[b]*[/b]Goodness, truth, wisdom and all other purported attributes of God are human concepts. When applied to a presumed entity so completely different in kind as to be supernatural, they are meaningless. The idea of God is thus incoherent.

[b]*[/b]Infinity is a concept humans cannot comprehend except in a limited mathematical sense. If God is infinite, this also renders him unintelligible.

[b]*[/b]Belief in an afterlife is insidious, besides there is no evidence to show the human consciousness survives bodily death.

[b]*[/b]Organized religion wastes untold amounts of money and resources that could be used to care for people, promote real knowledge, and advance the human race.

[b]*[/b]Theism puts God above people thereby making people subservient, unimportant and expendable.

[b]*[/b]Religion relies on guilt, fear and outlandish promises to gain obedience.

[b]*[/b]Theism generally precludes any possibility of testing God or questioning his existence substantively. It is something like the wizard of Oz saying, "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."

[b]*[/b]The methods used in proselytizing for religion bear an unmistakable resemblance to the methods of con men. But the scriptures consider this the great commission of mankind.

[b]*[/b]There are many good rational and logical arguments against theism but not one argument in favor of it that doesn't rely on a fallacy or assumption.

[b]*[/b]There are so many Gods put forth by thousands of religions that no one could ever be certain of picking the correct one, assuming that one exists.


[b]*[/b]Prayer is totally subjective and cannot be shown to have any more efficacy than pure chance.

[b]*[/b]There is no discernable difference between believing in God and having an imaginary friend.

[b]*[/b]People generally rely on facts and evidence in every human endeavor except religion.

[b]*[/b]Unequivocal miracles do not occur.

[b]*[/b]God supposedly speaks directly to the human spirit. This must be, at least partly, the same concept as mind. People who receive messages in their minds are invariably delusional.

[b]*[/b]There is no positive correlation between belief in God and being a moral person.

[b]*[/b]Belief in religion has spawned uncounted cults that draw people in by appealing to the concept of faith without proof and the promise of prophets to come. Some examples are: Jim Jones and the People's Temple, David Koresh and the Branch Davidians, Marshal Applewhite and Heaven's Gate. These groups had religious followers who were convinced to brutalize, mutilate and kill themselves and their children on the basis of this kind of blind faith.

[b]*[/b]Religion has an extremely violent history that includes such things as crusades, inquisitions, witch hunts, genocide, terrorism and holy war. Untold millions have died in the name of religious icons and for religious beliefs.

[b]*[/b]Religions have a long history of misogyny.Religion is just like racism because it segregates people

[b]*[/b]Religious dogma is practically immune to the incorporation of new facts. The best it can do is strained reinterpretation.

[b]*[/b]The argument that God cannot be proven not to exist is irrelevant when one considers that to do so requires that the concept of a supernatural God be intelligible and coherent, which it is not.

[b]*[/b]There is a well known argument commonly called "The Problem of Evil". It basically says that if an omnipotent and omnibenevolent God exists, unnecessary or gratuitous evil would not exist in the world. Thus if God sees this type of evil and does nothing he is either not omnibenevolent because he doesn't care or not omnipotent because he is unable to stop it. There are many counter-arguments that have been used. However the only one that really could defeat the Problem of Evil is if one says that we cannot apply human standards to decide what is or is not gratuitous evil. This may well be true, but that argument renders God unintelligible and meaningless to humans. Either way, the concept of God seems to be highly doubtful.

[b]*[/b]Theists claim that God has given humans free will. However, this free will is anything but free. The choices are forced on pain of death and eternal suffering. It is equivalent to having a slave and saying something like: "I grant you your freedom to leave at any time. But if you do, I will torture you mercilessly and kill you as slowly as possible."

tbaba1234: When an atheist becomes agnostic

A few weeks ago, i had a discussion with a friend of mine who is an atheist. We spoke for over 4 hours and we analysed the contentions of atheism. After our discussion, she began to contemplate the possibility of a God.

At the end, she began to concede. The 'rational basis' of the atheist argument fell flat. And she began to see the improbability of a world without a creator. What defines that creator is the next step.... She was a bit overwhelmed when i started to talk about the Quran (i had to stop short but she promised to read the translation). Hopefully, she finds the courage to take the next logical but understandably difficult step.

The atheist who loses faith can be categorized into 3 groups (my categorization): Sometimes it is a mixture of a number

1. A person who is dissatisfied with the restriction placed on him by faith and feels the need for 'freedom'.

2. One who is disillusioned by the practices of members of their faith and who project that to the entire population.

3. A person who questions the rational basis of his faith and its practises and doesn't find anyone willing to provide the answers.

A brief analysis

1. Number 1 is probably the worst of the lot: He is simply saying: I don't believe in God because he doesn't let me do what i want to do.... This is the baby attitude of some atheists. They forget that our lives are filled with restrictions.

Our parents set rules around the house, our govt tells us how fast to drive. Failure to adhere to these rules are usually accompanied by punishments and fines.

It is a silly reason to leave faith because you think being told to have sex only in marriage is restrictive for instance. It is such a childish reason.


2. Priests raping kids, suicide bombers killing innocent civilians, kids killed after being accused of witchcraft, honor killings.

People who lose faith because of these reasons base their faith loss on purely emotional reasons. This is not a logical way to look at things. Religious ideologies can be twisted to fit the political and social aim of any one. A proper analysis into the faith could reveal that these actions are not related to the faith. There could be cultural practises unrelated to the religion (in the case of honor killings) or a twisted ideology to achieve political ends (suicide bombing). Look at the classical sources and don't make emotional choices.

3. There must be a rational basis in the foundation of any faith. However, before one loses faith one should always try to meet the knowledgeable and understand the rational basis for that faith. Not all truths can be deduced rationally but the underlining belief must meet the criteria of common sense.

Losing faith in one belief system is not equal to God does not exist. I would argue that there is a better common sense argument for the existence of a creator...

Assuming the universe has a creator(s) it does NOT validate islam because you DO NOT have any evidence to show that the creator or creators of the universe is the made up entity written about in the koran. . . .Scientist have stated that a universe that lacks a creator is possible as well, should we also accept their hypothesis?. . .As for people living faith because of rules, the rules set by most religion especially islam are outdated and is not compatible to modern system of life. . .We have saudi arabi, iran and afgahnistan under the taliban as example of muslims societies, how well do those societies fare compared to secular societies that have done away with the nonsense that is islamic theocracy and dictatorship?

tbaba1234: As long as both parties are open minded, it will be fruitful::

Is allah entirely merciful as your post above says?. . . .Do you know what merciful is? merciful means to treat people better than they deserve, how can you claim allah is entirely merciful and also claim he is also just or an avenger, do you see the logical inconsistency in that assertion. i know you will come along with the ridiculous claim that allah being merciful does not apply in human terms the entirely merciful attribute of allah is transcendental and applies to him alone, but what you are saying is that allah is nothing, because he can not be set or put in context that has any meaning. . .If we use this logic then anything goes. . .

Johndoe100: Which kine story be dis? You think this is nollywood time? If I was to go into your story, i would end up abusing you. You oversea abi oversee his business,when he is not around abi and you are a student? You found out about madam but madam does not know about you. He does not go home because of traffic, but madam does not know where her hubby puts his head. They live in the same Lagos that we live abi. I am actually trying to figure out what would happen if I told my wife that I was not coming home at all because of traffic. Anyway the rescue team has responded, you and them can carry on.

LOL. . . .

Martian: Patience. The battle has yet to be won in the "spiritual realm" but the "hosts of heaven" are waging war against the "forces of darkness".

Where is the spiritual realm?

It lies between middle earth and heaven.

OK. . .Roger. . .

Havilah93: Prayer. What is prayer? Let us If not, I challenge you
to get into the habit now. You
will notice an immediate
difference in the way you
perceive things and in the way
you respond to the world around
you. Prayer does indeed change
things.

Nigerians have cultivated the habit of praying ALL of the time, they are CONSTANTLY praying for the country to get better, they pray to their various god(s) to touch touch the heart of their leaders and make them do the right things that will make the country great yet NOTHING has changed for the better despite the many many years of prayers and fasting. . . .Doesn't that show that your assertion of prayers and immediate difference is just a farce?. . .

^^

What ever. . . .

Logic mind . . . .

This topic is supposed to be a christian only topic why are you trolling?. . .Leave the OP and his people to share ideas and experiences with each other abeg. . . .

Logic Mind: no liver
Yoruba noise maker

Knock it off pls. . . .

@ OP

I don't know how you feel but you have to be strong. .Don't think that your problems are worse than those of others. . .Love yourself, have positive thoughts about yourself, try not to think about what others say, they will always talk regardless of your position or status. . .Change your environment, that is very important. . .Try to hang out with people that have a positive mind and outlook to life, again try and change environment. . . .I wish you all the best. . .

Logic Mind: so please tell us what he looked like racially.

His face was like that of the sun. . His teeth like diamonds. . .His hair as white as snow and were flowing like the greatest water falls. . .His hands so pure like gold. . .

vedaxcool: Ok I see u are writing according to ur intelligence, as even a child would tell one can disprove the authenticity of book by merely examing the contents of the book and bringing out its inconsistency . . . What did saint Augustin say about such issues? He said pertaining conflicting
Message of the bible that ' . . . It is either my interpretation of the books are faulty or the words have not been faithfully transmitted to us' this is the simple logic that mr. I got a million dols in my account cannot just figure. We do not need an original to be able to determine whether a book has been corrupted or not, as Christians attribute the bible to come from an author that is perfect, does not create contradictions in his message etc hence if the book a perfect author is suppose to give a perfect logical information, this is common sense yet the bible carries undeniably severely "bad" materials that associating such to its perfect author becomes impossible to sustain. And ignoramus it might interest u to know that the second vatican council which sat on 1945 labeled the old testament obsolete and imperfect. To compound the situation the writership of the books of the bible remain a case of possibly, maybe, perharps, etc in such a situation we are left wondering how can rational maintain that the books of the bible aren't corrupt?
On the second question, u lied against the christians, as no knowledgeable christian can make such a claim, take the new testament, they claim they have 26000 copies of the "original" yet no two of these copies are identical, differing both in minor and major aspect, it is this difference that resulted to the versions Christians have today. Again leaving us to conclude even the Christians do not have anthing close to the original, in fact this led to the RSV removing entire verses from the NT claiming that they do not occur in the most ancient manuscript, the RSV removed the so called ascension of Christ verse from the bible

Any time you shoot the bible down, you end up shooting the koran as well. . .Muslims claim the bible is corrupt but still use the bible to validate islam. . .If the OT is obsolete and imperfect then so is the koran since most of the stories are almost identical. . .Every body knows that the bible has many issues, but I would have expected the muslims that use the bible to validate islam to provide the original bible so that we can compare the two and differentiate between the alleged words of god and words of man. . .That is basically my point. . .

The fact that the deluded slave of godlessness is repeating what he wrote in a different way seeking to prove his famed ignorance and illogicity, leaves us merely expressing our profound pity upon such a delusion

. . .I am not the person that believes in the mythological writings and superstitions of deluded arab men that plagiarized stories form other civilizations and claimed some imaginary entity called allah "revealed" part of it to a man in a cave when experiencing some form of schizophrenia. . . .Pity your self and your mythical delusions you slave of allah. . .

We also heard mazaje have a miilion dols in his account, that 9-11 was an inside job, that Bush is from the lineage of Hitler, that atheism is a form of insanity, that the world does not exist - it is all a dream, that the Qur'an expressly say the Qur'an is from Allah, that the hadiths all attest to how Muhammad pbuh received revelation from angel Jibril, that . . .

Sure, the koran is from allah, just as the verders are from shiva and the bible is the word of yahweh, the same way we are told that mohammed divided the moon into two and made the moon to bow. . .Heard that mohammed also made a tree trunk to cry like a child in one of the hadiths. . . . . You are the one that believes in those tales by moon light so deal with it. . .Mohammed received "revelations" (plagiarism) from some mythical angle Jibril?. . .What am I to do with that arabic tales by moon light?. . .

vedaxcool: Erudition indeed simple question I asked mazaje is do you need an original document to prove a currupted text? And I also asked How do Christians print their copies is it from the ORIGINAL bible or what? Pls answer this simple questions rather than deliberately straying away from the questions, or is this your own level of "erudition" lol!

Yes, you need an original document to show a corrupted one. . .Christians print from the copies of the once they claim to be the original one just like muslims print from the copies of the ones they also claim to be the original one. . .Again where is allah's original bible so that we can compare it with the one muslims claim is corrupt and differentiate from the two. . Was it eaten by camels under aisha's bed?. . .

All the above have bee n address, we do not need to know what food a prophet consumed or what colour of shoes he wore! We only need to understand the message Allah reveals by telling us the story of HUD therein lies the signs, you cowardly D; ran away from the low life thread you started to discredit Islam and now u seek to start the flie issue, something that was thoroughly dealt with? I see u are actining ur usual irrational incoherent self! Keep it up!! Another reason we are better off serving Allah . . .

Very interesting that it is only stories that are written in details in the binle that happen to be also written in details in the koran. . .Allah reveals or Mohammed and his cronies plagiarized?. . .Keep on deluding yourself with the mythological writings and superstitions of ancient arabs. . .So you are better off as muslims, eh? Sure how else will the delusion make sense to you, if you don't delude yourself into thinking that accepting aged long mythologies and superstition makes you better. . .I laugh i arabic. . .

SO?

Means mohammed got his stories from a christian. . .

Simple questions are already proving to erudite for mr. Erudition, only people of usisky caliber can consider you erudite! Lol D;, leaving the simple question where do christians get their original bible to print the mordern one unanswered and please do let usisky down a fourth time in a roll! D;

According to christians they got the copy they have today from the copies of the original, just as muslsims claim to get their copies of the koran from the original. . .

tbaba1234: The bible scholars confirm this claim ::: I do not have to produce an original copy when the history shows many incidents of human corruption of the text. Do a little independent reading from a neutral site or from scholarly christian or Jewish records..... Muslim scholars have their differences but we are all unanimous on the preservation of the Quran. Personally i don't care about the Bible.

Some bible scholars say the bible was corrupted, some say it is not. . .Some koranic scholars say the koran was preserved some say it is not. . .many koranic scholars do NOT agree with the islamic claim of authorship, just as many biblical scholars do not agree on the biblical claim of authorship. . .We have had this discussion before. . .

The cities of AD and Thamud were well known to the Arabs: Those were the the cities of HUD and Salih::: It was in Arabia... The Quran talks about stories that its audience relate to. The family of HUD , Salih, Jonah, Job and a host of others were not discussed because they added nothing new to the story. The Quran is straight to the point. But we know about them from muslim sources:

Why is it that is it ONLY those whose stories were talked about in details in the bible were also talked about in details in the koran?. . .

Ad was located around eastern yemen/western oman: In the 1980s there was the discovery of what is thought to be Ubar, mentioned in the Qur'an as Iram, which is believed to have been the capital of ʿĀd. The town's ancestor, ʿĀd, is said to have been fourth in generation from Noah, his father being Uz, who was the son of Aram, who was the son of Shem, who was the son of Noah. ( Abdullah Yusuf Ali,The Holy Qur'an: Text, Translation and Commentary,)

It is "said," it is "believed". . .What am I to do with all these mere speculations?. . .Ad is said to be the fourth in the generation of Noah and this can be corroborated by which source external source?. . .

Thamud was well known to the Arabs. The oldest known reference to Thamud is a 715 BC inscription of the Assyrian king Sargon II which mentions them as being among the people of eastern and central Arabia subjugated by the Assyrians. (M. Th. Houtsma et al., eds., E.J. Brill's first encyclopaedia of Islam, 1913-1936).

So we know these places existed.

You don't know if any of these places exist, you ONLY believe they do and there is a very big difference between the two. . .

The christian in Medina who used a time machine to teach him all he knew in mecca before migrating. The same reference you use for that hadith tells you that half of the rabbis in medina became muslim.

Personally, I dodn't even take this claims seriously. . .It is just a claim, nothing different from say Moses wrote the Pentateuch. . .Or the disciples of Jesus wrote the gospels. . .They are just claims. . .Mohammed received all his revelations in Mecca is nothing but a muslim claim. . .

The 3rd person argument is a very weak one, I already illustrated how each is used depending on the audience.

I know of muslim scholars like Ahamed Deedat that claim the bible is written in 3rd person narrative so its false. . .The same applies to the koran and if we are to go by such claim then the koran is also false. . .

double post. . .

vedaxcool: Lol! Erudition man, so a document cannot be labeled corrupt without d original document provided? I wonder if usisky can label such an individual, then what else is left to say? Let's ask mazaje how do christians print their modern where do they get the ORIGINAL copy to print their today's' copy.

Muslims claim the bible is corrupted but still use the corrupt bible to validate the koran. . .Where exactly are the corrupted parts in the bible? Where is allah's original version so that we can know the corrupt versions are?. . . .Was it also eaten by a goat under aisha's bed?. . .

Hud and Salih were sent to the arabia penisular, Hud was belived to have been sent to a city known as Aad in the Qur'an but refered to by bendiouns Ubar, in todays Oman . . . Any muslims worth his salt will tell you the Qur'an is a book of signs where Allah reveals tale of ancient civilizations to teach the ummah about his signs and wonders. . .

The FACT still remains, the ONLY prophets that were discussed in details in the koran are the ones found in the bible, was Hud married or not? Who is his father? What about his mother? What are their names?. . .How many kids did he have?. . .Hud was "believed" to be sent to a city known as Aad. . .What exatcly are allah's signs and wonders . . .Mohammed saying that a fly carries diseases in one wing and cure on the other wing?

According to a hadith that muslims consider to be a correct tradition, a christians said Mohammed did not know anything and he wrote the koran for him. . .He was his source of stories. . .

Just answer the question on where the christians get their original bible to print the mordern one . . .

They never claimed that the original ones were corrupted, you are the ones making the claim. . did allah also leave the original bible under aisha's bed to be eaten by a goat? or was it eaten by a camel?. . .

Martian: That's just a false dichotomy promoted by certain monotheists. They think it's just their god people don't believe in while ignoring that most atheists have a disbelief of every claim of the supernatural.

For Christians, I think that arrogance comes from one of the beatitudes when jesus said, "10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
   for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

   11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you."


They take that magical thinking and apply it to every criticism, so this gives them a sense of moral superiority, after all, the infallible bible says it will happen and their reward is in heaven.

Some thing similar is written in the koran, so that gives them all the reason they need to close their eyes and keep regurgitating age long myths as if they have anything to do with reality. . .The answer this: It is NOT only god or nothing. . .I do not know because the god or nothing hypothesis does not make sense is also a part of it. . .

tbaba1234: We do not make judgement on what part of the other scriptures are from God or not. The Quran confirms what is true about the scripture...anything not mentioned in the Quran could be true or untrue. We place our reliance on the Quran alone.

That is a very biased assumption. . .How can muslims claim that the bible is corrupt when muslims fail to provide the original version. . .That is a very silly claim

It is untrue that only the prophets in the bible have detailed stories; we have the stories of Hud and Salih fairly detailed in the Quran: Particularly salih. The Quran was speaking to an audience and its speech is related to the audience it spoke to; The stories of Jewish prophets were relevant to preaching the message to the audience... If the quran spoke about prophets from Africa or Europe:: That does not resonate with a Jew.

It is VERY true, what do you know about Hud? Which country or region was he sent to and is there any clear and established source out side the koran that corroborates the koranic story about the existence of any Hud? What are the names of his parents, was he married or not? if he was married how many wives did he have? What personal detail can you give about him from the koran compared to say Moses or Abraham?. . .Same goes for Salih

These stories were revealed way before contact with Jews and Half the Rabbis of Medina became Muslims. What does that tell you.

That is the claim of the muslims, there is no evidence for that claim. . .It is ONLY reported. . .We also have reports of a christians that said Mohammed knows nothing and he told Mohammed everything he knows about the koran and even wrote it for him. . .What does that tell you?. . . .

The use of first, second or third persons depends on the discourse.

you must understand that the Quran was not revealed in the form of a document or a book, but rather it was revealed by inspiration to Prophet Mohamed (saws) in the form of discourses over a period of 23 years; which the Noble Prophet (saws) recited and declared verbatim to his listerners.

Thus, in the course of revelation, at times it seems that Allah Subhanah is addressing mankind in the first person, most times it seems the Lord is addressing Prophet Mohamed (saws) as in a conversation or the second person, and at times it seems that the Merciful Lord is speaking in the third person, narrating the Truth of what transpired in the past or what will transpire in the future! All three modes of conversation have been utilized by the All-Knowing, All Wise Lord for his chosen last and final Message, which He revealed as the Book of Guidance to all mankind until the end of time.

Examples of when Allah addresses His slaves in the first person in the Quran:

Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 22 Surah Hajj verse 5: O mankind! If ye have a doubt about the Resurrection (consider) that We created you out of dust then out of sperm then out of a leech-like clot then out a morsel of flesh partly formed and partly unformed in order that We may manifest (Our Power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term then do We bring you out as babes then (foster you) that ye may reach your age of full strength; and some of you are called to die and some are sent back to the feeblest old age so that they know nothing after having known (much). And (further) thou seest the earth barren and lifeless but when We pour down rain on it it is stirred (to life) it swells and it puts forth every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs).

Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 7 Aaraaf verse 27: O ye children of Adam! Let not the Shaytaan seduce you in the same manner as he got your parents out of the garden stripping them of their raiment to expose their shame: for he and his tribe watch you from a position where ye cannot see them: We made the evil ones friends (only) to those without faith.

Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 2 Baqarah verses 47-48:
47 O children of Israel! Call to mind the (special) favor which I bestowed upon You and that I preferred you to all others (for My message).
48 Then guard yourselves against a day when one soul shall not avail another, nor shall intercession be accepted for her, nor shall compensation be taken from her, nor shall anyone be helped (from outside).

Examples of when the Lord addresses the Prophet Mohamed (saws):

Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 33 Surah Ahzaab verse 45: O Prophet! Truly We have sent thee as a Witness, a Bearer of Glad Tidings, and a Warner

Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 33 Surah Ahzaab verse 28: O Prophet! Say to thy Consorts: "If it be that ye desire the life of this world and its glitter then come! I will provide for your enjoyment and set you free in a handsome manner."

Examples of when the Lord All-Mighty address mankind in the third person:

Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 2 Surah Baqarah verse 255: Allah! There is no Allah but He the living the Self-subsisting Eternal. No slumber can seize Him nor sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on earth. Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He permitteth? He knoweth what (appeareth to his creatures as) before or after or behind them. Nor shall they compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth. His throne doth extend over the heavens and the earth and He feeleth no fatigue in guarding and preserving them. For He is the Most High the Supreme (in glory).

Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 59 Surah Hashr verses 22-24:
22 Allah is He than whom there is no other god, Who knows (all things) both secret and open; He Most Gracious Most Merciful.
23 Allah is He than whom there is no other god, The Sovereign, The Holy One, The Source of Peace (and Perfection), The Guardian of Faith, The Preserver of Safety, The Exalted in Might, The Irresistible, The Supreme: Glory to Allah! (High is He) above the partners they attribute to Him.
24 He is Allah, The Creator, The Evolver, The Bestower of Forms (or colors). To Him belong the Most Beautiful Names: Whatever is in the heavens and on earth doth declare His Praises and Glory: and He is the Exalted in Might, The Wise.

The All Wise, All Knowing Lord has chosen all kinds of ways to portray His Divine Message to mankind to guide them to the Straight Path; and He best Knows which is the best form of relaying His Diving Message to His slaves. As believers, we are satisfied with Allah being our Lord and with everything He does and Commands, we are satisfied with Islam being our deen, and we are satisfied with the Message He has chosen for our guidance.

The bible is not the word of god because it contains 3rd person narrative but when the 3rd person narrative is shown in the koran, muslims try to dribble their way through. . .In the same koran you find allah swearing in his name. . .There is nothing divine in the koran, it reads like any other human construct and writing. . .There is NOTHING inside it that could not be written by humans who lived at that time. . .There is nothing like allah addressing humans in 1st, 2nd or 3rd persons. . There are just the writers of the koran writing their own stories and claiming divine authorship over what is clearly a human writing. . .

tbaba1234: We do not make judgement on what part of the other scriptures are from God or not. The Quran confirms what is true about the scripture...anything not mentioned in the Quran could be true or untrue. We place our reliance on the Quran alone.

That is a very biased assumption. . .How can muslims claim that the bible is corrupt when muslims fail to provide the original version. . .That is a very silly claim

It is untrue that only the prophets in the bible have detailed stories; we have the stories of Hud and Salih fairly detailed in the Quran: Particularly salih. The Quran was speaking to an audience and its speech is related to the audience it spoke to; The stories of Jewish prophets were relevant to preaching the message to the audience... If the quran spoke about prophets from Africa or Europe:: That does not resonate with a Jew.

It is VERY true, what do you know about Hud? Which country or region was he sent to and is there any clear and established source out side the koran that corroborates the koranic story about the existence of any Hud? What are the names of his parents, was he married or not? if he was married how many wives did he have? What personal detail can you give about him from the koran compared to say Moses or Abraham?. . .Same goes for Salih

These stories were revealed way before contact with Jews and Half the Rabbis of Medina became Muslims. What does that tell you.

That is the claim of the muslims, there is no evidence for that claim. . .It is ONLY reported. . .We also have reports of a christians that said Mohammed knows nothing and he told Mohammed everything he knows about the koran and even wrote it for him. . .What does that tell you?. . . .

The use of first, second or third persons depends on the discourse.

you must understand that the Quran was not revealed in the form of a document or a book, but rather it was revealed by inspiration to Prophet Mohamed (saws) in the form of discourses over a period of 23 years; which the Noble Prophet (saws) recited and declared verbatim to his listerners.

Thus, in the course of revelation, at times it seems that Allah Subhanah is addressing mankind in the first person, most times it seems the Lord is addressing Prophet Mohamed (saws) as in a conversation or the second person, and at times it seems that the Merciful Lord is speaking in the third person, narrating the Truth of what transpired in the past or what will transpire in the future! All three modes of conversation have been utilized by the All-Knowing, All Wise Lord for his chosen last and final Message, which He revealed as the Book of Guidance to all mankind until the end of time.

Examples of when Allah addresses His slaves in the first person in the Quran:

Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 22 Surah Hajj verse 5: O mankind! If ye have a doubt about the Resurrection (consider) that We created you out of dust then out of sperm then out of a leech-like clot then out a morsel of flesh partly formed and partly unformed in order that We may manifest (Our Power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term then do We bring you out as babes then (foster you) that ye may reach your age of full strength; and some of you are called to die and some are sent back to the feeblest old age so that they know nothing after having known (much). And (further) thou seest the earth barren and lifeless but when We pour down rain on it it is stirred (to life) it swells and it puts forth every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs).

Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 7 Aaraaf verse 27: O ye children of Adam! Let not the Shaytaan seduce you in the same manner as he got your parents out of the garden stripping them of their raiment to expose their shame: for he and his tribe watch you from a position where ye cannot see them: We made the evil ones friends (only) to those without faith.

Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 2 Baqarah verses 47-48:
47 O children of Israel! Call to mind the (special) favor which I bestowed upon You and that I preferred you to all others (for My message).
48 Then guard yourselves against a day when one soul shall not avail another, nor shall intercession be accepted for her, nor shall compensation be taken from her, nor shall anyone be helped (from outside).

Examples of when the Lord addresses the Prophet Mohamed (saws):

Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 33 Surah Ahzaab verse 45: O Prophet! Truly We have sent thee as a Witness, a Bearer of Glad Tidings, and a Warner

Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 33 Surah Ahzaab verse 28: O Prophet! Say to thy Consorts: "If it be that ye desire the life of this world and its glitter then come! I will provide for your enjoyment and set you free in a handsome manner."

Examples of when the Lord All-Mighty address mankind in the third person:

Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 2 Surah Baqarah verse 255: Allah! There is no Allah but He the living the Self-subsisting Eternal. No slumber can seize Him nor sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on earth. Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He permitteth? He knoweth what (appeareth to his creatures as) before or after or behind them. Nor shall they compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth. His throne doth extend over the heavens and the earth and He feeleth no fatigue in guarding and preserving them. For He is the Most High the Supreme (in glory).

Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 59 Surah Hashr verses 22-24:
22 Allah is He than whom there is no other god, Who knows (all things) both secret and open; He Most Gracious Most Merciful.
23 Allah is He than whom there is no other god, The Sovereign, The Holy One, The Source of Peace (and Perfection), The Guardian of Faith, The Preserver of Safety, The Exalted in Might, The Irresistible, The Supreme: Glory to Allah! (High is He) above the partners they attribute to Him.
24 He is Allah, The Creator, The Evolver, The Bestower of Forms (or colors). To Him belong the Most Beautiful Names: Whatever is in the heavens and on earth doth declare His Praises and Glory: and He is the Exalted in Might, The Wise.

The All Wise, All Knowing Lord has chosen all kinds of ways to portray His Divine Message to mankind to guide them to the Straight Path; and He best Knows which is the best form of relaying His Diving Message to His slaves. As believers, we are satisfied with Allah being our Lord and with everything He does and Commands, we are satisfied with Islam being our deen, and we are satisfied with the Message He has chosen for our guidance.

The bible is not the word of god because it contains 3rd person narrative but when the 3rd person narrative is shown in the koran, muslims try to dribble their way through. . .In the same koran you find allah swearing in his name. . .There is nothing divine in the koran, it reads like any other human construct and writing. . .There is NOTHING inside it that could not be written by humans who lived at that time. . .There is nothing like allah addressing humans in 1st, 2nd or 3rd persons. . There are just the writers of the koran writing their own stories and claiming divine authorship over what is clearly a human writing. . .

LagosShia: it is not suprising to hear these words from someone who says electricity is an invention.

you have a long way to go.i dont mean to aggravate your feelings or make you feel bad.but your words lack susbtance.

What is more surprising is you that listed coffe as the contribution of islam. . . . . . .What exactly is inside the koran that could not have been written by men?. . .Why is it that ONLY the stories and prophets that appear in the bible are talked about in details in the koran?. . .Why do muslims use the bible to validate islam?. . .

Pls who built the Kaabah?. . .Muslims claim that Abraham built the Kaabah, pls where is the evidence for this?. . .

^^

What I fail to understand is this spurious claim from muslims that the koran is the word of some supernatural entity, there is NOTHING in the koran that CANNOT be written by men and could not have been written by men that lived at that time, all its stories and moral teachings are not new or exceptional to the koran, variations of it exist all over the place already. . . nothing written inside is actually original, all its stories were borrow or plagiarized from earlier stories or civilizations. . .Muslims just uphold the assumption that Mohammed was an illiterate and recited the koraic revelations to people. . .They just keep bandying it around as if its true. . .

@tbaba123

If the bible is corrupted as you claim, then where is the original version? How do you know which parts are the words of god and which are not?. . .Why is it that it is ONLY the stories and prophets that appear in the bible that are talked about in details in the koran?. . .Why is allah swearing by himself in the koran and addressing himself in a third person narrative?. . .Muslims have claimed that koran is the word of god because it was written in first person speech unlike the bible, where third person speech is used. But the very first chapter of koran is written in the third person speech.

Surah 1:1-7. "In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds; Most Gracious, Most Merciful; Master of the Day of Judgment. Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek. Show us the straight way, The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray."

This is not the only one example but there are many surahs which are written in third person speech. So if we take the words muslims use against christians then we can also conclude that the koran is not the word of god. . . .

Kay 17: I actually saw that as a continuous rant from you.

LOL. . . .

Women generally like social gatherings more than men, the church is a social place to gather. . .They are more gullible, more emotional and more in need of fatherly help to watch over them and provide for their needs than men. . .Even muslim women are generally more religious than the men despite islam being a male dominated religion. . .

Satan is another mythical construct. . .Atheist do NOT believe in satan. . .

ajibolanur: @ Atheists
What I have to tell you today is just that "there is God (only one)" and you have to believe in His supremacy. The same questions you are asking today has been asked during the lifetime of prophet Muhammad (SAW), he was asked by non-believers that if truly your God(Allah) is the lord, command the moon to split into two and Prophet did it by the power of almighty. You won't be surprised that they (non-believers) still claimed it was a mere magic and the prophet is a great magician for him to have done that. Despite the support of eyewitness, they still don't believe.
Holy Quran was revealed 1400years ago therein contained a chapter that corroborate the once split of the moon. Q54:1-4 which says "the hour came near and the moon was split 2)and if they see any sign they turn their faces and they say this is magic perpetual 3)and they belied and followed their desires...on and on like that.
"Modern evidence" Astronomers proved through photograph that Moon has a rift line across which indicates that it has once split and join. What else do you want as a proof to believe in existence of almighty. Please be guided and retrace your steps
http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DnA52owyeSsU

The islamic "scholar" in that you tube video is a LIAR who clearly doesn't know what he is talking about. . .There is NO study any where stating that the moon has once split and joined. . .Mohammed only divided the moon in the pages of the hadith and not in reality. . .NO astronomer has ever made that claim, it is muslims that have been lying to themselves after seeing picture of rifts on the moon, the rifts have nothing to do with the moon spliting into two, it is a LIE. . .

Nobody has really changed my views but I consider people like davidylan, nuclearboy, inesQure, tbaba123 and deepsight very interesting and intelligent characters with above normal apologetics skills. . .

Normally I believe that your husband has the same right to openly practice his atheism just as you have your right to openly practice your religion. But in a society like Nigeria where a great majority of the people are backward, intolerant, willfully ignorant, uneducated,freaful,irrational, superstitious and generally stupi.d. Your husband will not be accepted as an atheist in that backward society. . . .As someone pointed out, muslims generally believe that christians are going to hell anyway and christians hold the same view about muslims. . .They still try to live with each other despite holding such beliefs about each other, why they refuse to accept the atheist and try to avoid them as if they are some plauge that need to be avioded is really mindboogling. . .

Nigeria is the most religious country I know yet it remains the most rotten country I have ever visited, nothing is just working in that cesspool. I live in a majority atheist country and it is heaven on earth compared to Nigeria. . .Isn't that clear evidence that Nigerians are just wasting their time with all the imaginary gods they claim to be worshiping?. . .So your pastor and friends all dislike your husband for not beleieving in their mythical superstitions and delusions, eh?. . .Leave your husband and go find happiness with a christian brother. . ..

thoth: God! the football of a thing is most sad.
I think the reason is partly the effects of colonial indoctrination and partly poor educational standards.
I was with a group of people whom i assumed were learned and i was telling them how christianity came to nigeria citing many events from the national archives in order to persuade them to accept that teaching christian religious knowledge in schools is extremely dangerous psychologically to our children and our culture as our identity, i used a JSS 3 students notebook as an example where a topic " the evil of african traditional religion" was treated and imediately they all verbally abused me and the priest(catholic priest) said i was posessed. The two things that pained me was that i use reason,logic,historical and verifiable evidence and observed abnormalities on contemporary african society to back my points while they as OP said kept repeating same "your are working for the devil " phrase which provides no information nor illumination on their point if they had one.
Secondly the few who understood me were reluctant to criticise the status quo for fear of the priest(in white) or being bundled as an antichrist with me.
When i started stating in chronological order how christianity was sustained in eastern nigeria with the killings,forceful detentions and partial genocides in the name of god and compared it to the Muslim Jihad they simply asked me to leave.
Are black people really unintelligent as a race ?

Nope, we are not. . .The black man does NOT reason at all, that is why we will continue to remain at the bottom of everything. . .In fact we don't really know how the world works. . .

Enigma: And so too evangelical atheism involves dogma, morality, faith . .

Anyway, I say again that it has been proven conclusively that evangelical atheism is a religion --- from both intellectual and legal/judicial perspectives.

Proven by who? You and your delusions?. . .

maclatunji: Animals and human beings crawled out of nothing and started believing in a God that did not create them? Aren't you boys quite brilliant with your questions and logic.

Keep going around in circles you hear.

maclatunji: Animals and human beings crawled out of nothing and started believing in a God that did not create them? Aren't you boys quite brilliant with your questions and logic.

Keep going around in circles you hear.

How many times will I keep telling this one that there are many Gods. . .The Gods are many. . .Animals and human beings were created from rock by then pantheon of Greek gods. . .keep believing in one god of the arabs that does not exist you hear. . .The gods are many. . .

The study that alleged Nigerians were the happiest people was done in 2002. . .I doubt if Nigerians were the happiest people then. .