₦airaland Forum

Your pastor will be able to send his children to a more expensive school.

Your pastor will be able to purchase a new jeep for his wife - to match the one that he has.

Your pastor will be able to expand his wardrobe.

korel9: I don't understand!

Neither is important.

Women frequently give into their material desires.

Men have physical needs.

Both are of greater importance than religion.

You could proclaim to be a devil worshipper but if you have 'resources' you will find a lot of young xtian women coming for you...

'Love' has nothing to do with it.

Desire is the more appropriate word. Or lust.

Never slept in church but I can remember having to go to a "thanksgiving" service and reading "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins during all the hoopla.

You know why.

The church is all about control. Money is an important aspect of control.

I see one of these stupid posts everyday:

"Why orange girls remain single"

"Why tall girls remain single"

Why short girls remain single"

Why educated girls remain single"


Again, stupid post.

FOOL FINDER: God has a different standard for hell based on race, Africans who wear trousers and other "abominables" are sent to hell but not the whites who do those exact same thing .

How do you know that:

A. This god that you speak of created this hell

B. These rules that you speak of are his doing.

Terrible analogy.

If he's an engineer then he's incompetent.

Like it or not the culture is the reason behind the emergence of Boko Haram. Islam is and has been a part of the culture that has lead to the extreme inequality that has allowed Boko Haram to thrive.

That is not to say that culture cannot be changed but as things stand many aspects of the culture work against the needs of the majority.

Thankfully the only people who inhabit hell are the idiots stupid enough to believe such nonsense.

A mind is a terrible thing to waste...


P. S

What does any of this have to do with racism?

...to the same god prior to a knock-out competition game.

a) Does that god ignore the prayers of one team?

OR

b) Does that god ignore the prayers of both teams?

Thank you for your answers.

FOLYKAZE: Stop proving innocence that does not exist as far you are concerned in this discussion.

You came in an attempt to answer the question I directed at Weah96. The question you provided is incomplete, full of flaws and fails to fix in; that is wrong. Attached as your signatory is an insult (calling me ignorant) on my person and not my message as there is no engagement between us. When actually you did not know my own opinion on what you presented, insulting me straightaway and again concluding I am not being comprehendible points out torchwave's conclusion. . . .if not for all atheist but you in particular.

Your answer "Attributed to a power that seems to violate or go beyond natural forces."

is incomplete because you failed to tell us what is been attributed.

Is full of flaws because practically, herbs made by the locals are regarded as having supernatural potentials. Very few or educated locals would consider herbs/concortion as medicinal science.

Another flaws in there pops up when locals among the yorubas claim Ogun is the moulder of bone. They are attributing bone to supernatural being.

Now let me showcase the flaws. . . .Herbs/concortion are perceived supernatural mixture; it potentials are aslo attributed to supernatural powers. Are you then going to say what the locals attributed to super powers really is supernatural? Herbs is herd, concortion is chemical mixture. . . Both natural processes are attributed to supernaturals. . . .

Moulder of bone is Ogun - supernatural god of Iron.

Literally, Ogun is personification of anything metalic.

Science claim calcium builds bone.

Therefore the supernatural claim that Ogun is the maker of bone is right. In the real sense, calcium, Ogun and the process of building bone is plain natural process. . . .

How then can you say a natural process having attribute to supernatural beings, power and influences. Can you now see the flaws?


- fails to fix in because supernatural is a natural process which are unexplanable yet and which are attributed to Spirits or Gods.

A transcension of natural laws and nature cannot fit into a natural process. Therefore your definition is wrong and not fitting in.



The reason I refused to accept dictionary, God is a word abrahamically defined. . . . Is Christianity, Islam and Judaism the only faith using the word God? Has your dictionary look beyond this faith and it definition? Even though I cant dispute the fact that it is inputted by scholars, this minor error of not covering what God is outside Abrahamic concept should make me reject it just like the incomplete definition you posted.

Liveair definition contains lot of rationality. Even there are more to it from the way I defined mine. . . .I still give kudos to him for his token.

Why have you refused to be objective with the view of opinions? Must you insult me before giving in your own opinion?

If you try to get me wrong, why didnt you ask for more expression?

I rejected your argument, did you ask me for reasons and what brought me to that conclusion?

You can continue with picking grammatical errors; you are very much good at that. . . .but judging from your little inputs on this thread, you are empty.

The word "supernatural is attributed to" - then the definition. That should be apparent to anyone who is versed in the English language.

For someone with such a poor grasp of the language you certainly make use of a lot of words.

As to your claim that god is "Abrahamically" defined...that is both amusing and disturbing. We have evidence of people creating gods long before the story of Abraham. Judaism is simply a continuation of the various of myths of that locality.

I hear people from Nigeria continuously talking about 'illiterates' and my grandfather has told me tales of the legions of unemployable graduates but without this message board I would not be aware of how bad the problem currently is.

qstar: It's a competitive industry. All strategies have to be employed!

"Industry" is the correct word.

Or "scam".

What is so special about church services in Nigeria that every service is filmed? For whose benefit is this done?

Does anyone actually watch such videos?

Why do they spend so much time filming the crowd?

Why are such practices not common elsewhere?

torchwave: You know, syntax and sentence construction is not a yardstick of experience and knowledge.

When you begin to pick apart a person's sentence to ridicule him, it suggests you have nothing important to say, therefore, there's nothing you new you have to offer as far as the topic of discussion is concerned. Rather than employ your time and effort in puerile attempts at argument, it were better you said nothing to save the little respect you have left in the eyes of observers.

So typical of atheists. They never fall short of the expectation to turn any peaceful forum of discussion into a battlefield of bloodless verbal war.

It is very difficult to find a thread of discussion in this section that is devoid of verbal clashes when atheists are present. If this is how so-called intelligent folks express their opinion, I'd rather be listening to the cacophony of less intelligent species. At least, cacophony of animals is preferable to needless, unprovoked, pointless, noisy and irritating verbal exchanges by teenage adults.

1. I stated that he was incomprehensible (which he is).

2. He claimed that he had a better grasp of English and a better definition of the word "supernatural" than those who compile the dictionaries - anyone who has followed this thread can see that such a claim is laughable. I now see that he has added his own definition courtesy of google (which would in turn be courtesy of a dictionary), this reinforces point 1.

Weah96: Folly-Kaze you need to work on your folly, abi, grammar. It remains one of the requirements for posting s)hit here on NL. Stop being noisy when your grasp of the language is hanging by a thread. I wouldn't dare argue with Germans in German myself, lest I demonstrate my ignorance like you're doing here.

Seriously.

How can someone who barely grasps the language be so keen to engage in arguing semantics?

FOLYKAZE: Are you saying the people dont attribute supernation powers to a natural phenomena?

Dont be this silly.


The same dictionary you ran to that cant provide definition of the word God/god outside Abrahamic conception.


Define SUPERNATURAL. That is what I asked of you and not Dictionary meaning defence that is full of flaws. Afterall I have shown you this flaws. . . .get me something meaningful or admit you dont know.

"Supernation" is not a word.

It's very difficult to follow what you say when your grasp of the language is so poor.

P.S.

Lol at the dictionary being 'flawed'. You are a wonderful advert for bad education.

FOLYKAZE: Wrong!

Eve the naturals are attributed to superntural power or beings.

You guys are yetto provide explanation on what supernatural is.

It is cowardice to argue on a subject you cant provide distinctive tenacity for.

As for the ignorance insult, I take that as a complement. . . .you havent show you can do better.

"Attributed to a power that seems to violate or go beyond natural forces."

That's a dictionary definition.

So now you are a greater authority than the body of learned people who congregate to collate English dictionaries...

Please stop using words that you do not understand ("distinct tenacity"; "supernatural"; "ignorance" ).

FOLYKAZE: You are just plain myopic and completely irrational.

How does communication over a distance defy nature?

When did superntaural becomes a phenomena that defy nature? Where did you get that from?

Is this a definition? I cant score you 1/10. Really poor.

Dont make me perceive you as empty type that make noise.

Again what is supernatural?

Attributed to a power that seems to violate or go beyond natural forces.

You are arguing from a position of gross ignorance.

Mods, this is an advert.

Backwards peoples have always attributed as yet unexplained events as supernatural. It is easier to do that than to look for the explanation.

This is why those nations and groups are soon subjugated by others. Ignorance might be bliss in the short term but in the long term it is dangerous.

adeitoro: my dear stop arguing any point with those guys, even when they know the truth, they will always be baised. That is why I don't argue anything religion or ethnicity because people will always be deluded with their aboriginal stand.
So quit explaining anything to them allow the Holy Spirit to do the rest, you have tried.
#teamcatholic.

You are exactly what you accuse others of being.

If the prayers are directed to dead people then that is who you are praying to. Only a very dishonest or very stupid person would argue otherwise.

MOBJECTIVE: I have. My response to this is that these prayers are too complicated for you to begin with, but having taken your advice i've seen how one who does not know how to pray or hasn't been taught how to pray will see these as prayers to saint Anthony, or might even mistakenly pray to saint Anthony. However, if you also read them objectively, then you should see how these prayers do one of these two things:
*asks the saint to pray for you or
*invokes God ,in his power, to use the saint or angel as a vessel to carry out your prayer to him (God).

any other thing and the prayers are sinful.
*note: Catholics begin all their prayers in the name of God

#more informed catholic please correct if wrong

Asking a saint to pray for you is praying to an intercessor.

That is no different from those who pray to their ancestors asking them to influence a deity.

In the same way that others plead with their gods and attempt to stroke the ego of the entities that they pray to so too do Catholics when they talk to Mary:

Morning Consecration to Mary

My Queen, My Mother, I offer
myself entirely to thee.
And to show my devotion to thee,
I offer thee this day, my eyes,
my ears, my mouth, my heart,
my whole being without reserve.
Wherefore, good Mother, as I am thine own, keep me, guard me as thy property and possession.
Amen.


Why would you devote yourself to a dead woman? Unless you believed that said dead person had special powers akin to a god?

There is no difference between what Catholics do and what the many demonised animists do other than the animists do not have the backing of one of the world's largest organisations.

MOBJECTIVE: I think this is a misunderstanding. For one minute, empty your mind and read these prayers and what it means to pray to someone.

then answer the question: Think of all the things you could ask of God when praying to him. whilst saying these prayers, have we prayed to the saint ?
if you feel you have prayed to the saint them the prayer is unacceptable and it is not Catholic. However i can see straight away that the prayers you've shown us are acceptable and are Catholic even though i now see why it would be difficult for you to understand.

What you have just said is that the prayers should be looked at objectively.

I was not raised Catholic as such my impression of the Catholic doctrine is not clouded by dogma.

I would suggest that you follow your own advice and read those prayers and your Bible with an open and honest mind.

MOBJECTIVE: you've failed to show how these prayers are prayers to dead people. The above are prayers, where in them do we pray to these dead people?

The prayers are addressed to the dead people.

Your insistence that they are not is incredibly dishonest.

I've heard of apologetics but this is ridiculous.

I have shown that Catholics pray to dead intercessors.

That is no different from idolatry.

The very first point that I made is very much true.

[b]Unfailing Prayer to St. Anthony

"Blessed be God in His angels and in His saints."

O Holy St. Anthony, gentlest of Saints, you love for God and Charity for His creatures, made you worthy, when on earth, to possess miraculous powers. Miracles waited on your word, which you were ever ready to speak for those in trouble or anxiety. Encouraged by this thought, I implore of you to obtain for me (state request here). The answer to my prayer may require a miracle, even so, you are the Saint of Miracles.

O gentle and loving St. Anthony, whose heart was ever full of human sympathy, whisper my petition into the eaars of the Sweet Infant Jesus, who loved to be folded in your arms; and the gratitude of my heart will ever be yours. Amen.


Seeking a Lost Article

Dear St. Anthony, you are the patron of the poor and the helper of all who seek lost articles. Help me to find the object I have lost so that I will be able to make better use of the time that I will gain for God's greater honor and glory. Grant your gracious aid to all people who seek what they have lost---especially those who seek to regain God's grace. Amen.[/b]

The simple fact is that Catholics offer prayers to dead people.

They statues are a part of their prayers and worship.

That is idolatry.

MOBJECTIVE: I don't know. which is why I asked you to please explain.

I know it is generally accepted that to worship a physical thing such as money, carved images, a person, etc is idolatry. but you simply assumed that praying to dead people is idolatry and from that asumption you went on to wrongly accuse Catholics of being idolators (or whatever it is called) because you thought they prayed to dead people.

Well, even if praying to dead people is idolatry, Catholics DO NOT PRAY TO dead people and so ARE NOT idol worshippers (whatever it is called), therefore, the accusation of hypocrisy should be dropped because:

while the traditionalists do, we do not:
*worship carved images, or any images at all.

*pray to dead people, or any being other than God; the only Divine being.

so we cannot be said to be hypocrites as we do not practise ourselves what we say to others are bad.

So prayers are not offered to Mary?

To the various saints?

What is this?:


Hail Mary,
Full of Grace,
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit
of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary,
Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now,
and at the hour of death.
Amen.


I can very easily pull up a number of prayers offered to St Anthony and whoever else I choose to search for.

You don't have a leg to stand on. Remember, the first rung of the ladder of hypocrisy is dishonesty.

MOBJECTIVE: 1. Yes, the topic is about Idolatory. but you raised points about prayer to supposed dead people & failed to explain what this has to do with the type of idolatory presented in the topic, as it's not immediately obvious to dumb people like myself.

2. If i were to say: non-catholics are never able to see they are wrong in everything they say and do, I have expressed my opinion until i can prove this opinion to be true.

Thank you

3. Following from 2, the best way to prove the first sentence of your post is to show that my initial reply to your post is either wrong, or the content of my reply describes idolatory. Otherwise, keep your opinion as an opinion and not a statement of fact.

Is there a fundamental difference between praying to dead people or statues...

Do the statues not represent some former living (breathing) being?

You cannot reconcile fairy tales with reality.

MOBJECTIVE: You've called aspects of catholic faith which are not related to the topic hypocritic without explaining how they're hypocritic. The Jewish woman you say is dead, I assume to be Mary. Mary never died, she was assumed into Heaven; honoured above all women by God himself, and we honour her as best we can ourselves. As someone in heaven we ask her to pray for us. The same thing we ask of the saints. We don't PRAY TO them. This fact can be seen in any Litany of Mary or of the Saints.

So you are wrong on three accounts, please stop falsifying my religion.

1. The points raised are to do with idolatry - that is very much the topic.

2. Please read the first line of my post.

Thank you.

Catholics are not able to see the hypocrisy of which you speak.

They offer prayers to a dead Jewish woman yet are convinced that they do not engage in idolatry.

They pray to saints (they have statues too) and yet they do not see their hypocrisy.

In the same way that those who engage in ancestral worship are convinced that they can communicate with dead people so too are Catholics, some of whom believe that saints are intercessors between themselves and their god.

Of course none of these people have any proof for any of this and thus each belief is as valid as the other...