₦airaland Forum

PhysicsQED: What about the Yoruba language makes it Gbe-like?

And what groups in southeastern Nigeria besides the Ibibio/Annang/Efik, Ekoi, and Igbo or Igboid groups have any Bantu-like words in their languages?

As regards the Yoruba language. There are no solid specifics that tie it to the gbe subfamily of languages under the category of Kwa speakers(Tonal, lexicon and sentence structures are debated) in and around the western areas bordering the Atlantic other than the proposition that it is highly likely that migratory patterns westwards would relate languages families across that same migratory line, with later arrivals sharing more similarities with proto-bantu speakers. see attachement below for language categories. the more brownish it gets the closer it is to a BANTU languge. You can also reference the journal of west African languages for each specific language group

A question for you would be what words in Ibibio/Annang/ Efik, Ekoi or Igbo tie them to CURRENT Bantu speakers as opposed to the hypothesized reconstruction of a proto bantu language originating in and around the borders of Nigeria and cameroon?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Niger-Congo_speakers.png

continued

A pictoral migration of peoples out of Africa all the way to polynesia and their morphological changes on the way

[quote author=Ta_Xasa]Hmmm I See your Point, The Thing is with Many of the languages In africa They all come into Few languages that Branched Out, so 10,000-20,000 Years ago Instead of Having Thousands Of african Language we see today it would Only be few handfull of Languages at that Time where they were ancestors of Most Of African Languages Today. The Hamitic Theory is not Only Jewish Biblical Theory The Ancient Egyptians/Arabs and Most of the ancient Worlds Claimed That Idea... Now Not All Hamitic People were Black, Some were Lighter Skin Colour Like Example the Canaanites/pillsitines/Myzrami's who were were the first 12 Dynasty of ancient Egypt and Many other Groups. Basically there were 2 Hamitic Groups Known, The northern Hamitics which Includes the Red Indians, Polynesians and Many Indegionus East and south east asians Population, and you had The southern Hamitics Basically The darker africans regardless of whether they are bantu,Afro-asiatic or san or Nilo. But 10,000 Years could sometimes Alter a genetic makeup or even change the Features of a tribe slightly, The best Example of That is in many East African Countries Starting with My own Country which Is Eritrea, We have 2 Tribes who were kin and lived Next to each other, while one has Moved To the Higlands and Mixed with other Tribes and even other Non african/Hamitic Groups the other Tribe stayed Unmixed to its people and Language. The result In 1000 Years is you would Think there is no way those two are related to each other, But The fact is They are One split into two and The features of the two is identical if you look closely without Judging the clothes or the Lightness of the skin. Amazing and i see that as well with many other groups around africa, Africa is very special you can Change how a tribe would look like and even modernise it but alot of aspects of the ancient way will remain still and one of them is the attachment to a group/Tribe and The less sense of humor of getting fooled Due to our Pride/Dignity Nature.[/quote]The Hamitic claim is based on culture and not particular scientific truth per say. There are too many flaws in the North Hamitics/ South Hamitic theory. The Hamitic theory is heavily based on the ancient worlds perception of their surrounding environments and peoples whose origins were not so simple to explain at that time and whose timeline for population expansions starting from Ham- Cush-Nimrod- Miziriam e.t.c fall within a 6-7 thousand year time frame. The evidence points more to waves of Populations of darker peoples originating from INTERIOR AFRICA migrating to West Asia via the nile valley, expanding down south through South Asia, Indonesia, Malaysia and eventually reaching as far as Papau new Guinea and Australia/polynesia. This migration would take people who were phenotypically similar to contemporary Africans through varios morphological changes as they bottlenecked an the expansions would take a time line of close to 80 thousand years to accomplish.

Nebeuwa: That news has already been circulating since 2010, when the New York Times had an article on that subject. It caused a little firestorm in the blogosphere, because you had people claiming that Africans are the only pure homo sapiens. We all know how views on "race" can muddy the water. I even heard some people try to say that Neanderthals matings with modern humans created the perfect hybrid that allows their offspring to conquer the rest of the world. I still think the the genes are negligible, since there is evidence that early humans mated with Homo erectus and also Homo habilis as well.

The human genome is fascinating. What was the spark that allowed us to conquer the natural world? I ponder these questions at times.

I recall the frenzy it caused. A lot of "people" of course hijacked the info to claim all sorts of things regarding the ability to adapt quicker to certain environments, prosper and conquer the world.

I have a simpler and less abrasive theory which requires the application of common sense regarding "people' being able to conquer the world. Its called the exponential transfer of knowledge basis. As humans accumulate knowledge and transfer from generation to generation. the locations closest to the these pools of knowledge will undoubtedly acquire these knowledge basis and if socially engineered are able to create a class of "populations" with exponential knowledge.

Populations that are barricaded by formidable barriers for example "the Sahara" and isolated in an interior of a particular continent will be excluded from these exponential possibilities.

[quote author=PAGAN 9JA]yes we are Sahelian that is true. but we have broken away from them, so how does that make us mixed we will obviously share similar genetics to our greater group.

and you did not test my blood so no point making false claim of me being mixed with arabs. [/quote]I never claimed that Hausa are mixed with anything. The point I am trying to convey is that human populations are a continium from earlier groups of people that diverge, bottle neck and cross breed with each other. Therefore the notion that anyone is pure is based on sentimentality and a yearning to be unique.

We are not that special, sorry!!

igbo2011: Russia might leave BRICS because it isn't a fast growing economy anymore. But there are other countries who might join BRICS like Indonesia, Vietnam, Turkey, Mexico, and Nigeria. So us Nigerians will have compettition. But with constant power then Nigeria can grow over 11% a year because less money on generators means more money spending and investing for consumers and producers. This will also attract foreign investment for much needed sectors of investment like agriculture and manufacturing. With power comes more processing plants so Nigeria can make finished food and goods. Then we can start to export. Our textiles industry can be revitalized.

All we need is energy. How will we get it though? Coal, Nuclear, hydro power, solar?

Nigeria is not joining BRICs any time soon. They have the potential but not in the near forseeable future. South Africa on the other hand will not likely gain any steam as its economy is not growing at a fast enough predicted pace. The other members want to use her as a an entry point into much of Africa.

I see SA playing a very minute role and turkey possibly joining the clan.

[quote author=Ta_Xasa]Exactly My Thoughts Too, The cushtic and Nubians were of late arrivals Before the arabs but after the rest of the other african Groups. The sea People from Canaan were Fighting Against The ancient Egyptians for Many Years especially the New Kingdom Pharohs and Finally succeding of Getting FOOTHOLD in the Nile Delta and Africa where they spread from there.[/quote]It is self evident that pre the migrations across the east to west for peoples in Africa, North East Africa had already created a pool of varying degrees of people that can claim cushitic ancestory. It is possible this ancestry can reach as far as senegal. Genetic evidence traces varying degrees of a haplogroup E that creates a division between the sons of WeI am sekptical of josephus's categorizing of peoples based on his jewish-biblical inspired groupings of Ham, cush and Nimrod to cover all the darker peoples of Africa.

[quote author=PAGAN 9JA]that still makes you mixed. anyway, apart from that, are you aware of the fact that i am Maguzawa? why then should i mix with arabs they have nothing to do with me.
also Hausa peoples just try to behave like arabs. they did not actually mix with them. we have kept our blood strong. the only problem arises with certain peoples marrying Fuulbe. howeve r they are aware of their ancestry and call themsef Hausa-Fulani. but technically, they have no place in any tribe.[/quote]There is nothing such as a pure Hausa person. You share genetic makeup with several sahelian groups stretching across the Nile to Sene-gambia.

your groups simply stoped migrating and ended up setting up a home in what is known as northern Nigeria today.

PS "biologically speaking". The purer and isolated people genetically and geographically are, the less likely their numbers survive over time.

Human dispersal across the continents ensured our survival as a species.

Nebeuwa: Get a hold of yourself. I said my maternal lineage is of African American descent, but my father is 100% Recent African. I say Recent, because all humans across the world can trace their lineage back to East Africa, where the Mitochondrial Eve lived thousands of years ago. Like I said previously, since you are Hausa, you may have Semitic genes in you, due to Arab traders who went to Hausaland.

@ nebeuwa

you are not going to get too much of a head way with some nigerians on this forum who obviously still believ in things like 'the curse of ham' or the debunked three race theory: caucasoid, mongoloid and negroid coined in 18th and 19th century scientific study.

You are indeed correct in asserting that 'biologically" There is only one human species. Homo sapien sapien and indeed "race' is a social construct. You however will encounter individuals who are so ingrained in these 'constructs' that anything outside of that normal definition will seem nonsensical to them.

Differences in phenotypical and genotypical makeups of humans are factors that contribute to our 'differences" but the underlying framework is the same for this one species that differentiates them from other closer relatives as in chimps and great apes.


I would suggest that you be careful with studying the "out of Africa' hypothesis that you are obviously drawing reference from and keep and open mind to changing definitions, cause its science is continually changing. For example it was recently discovered that every other human except for sub saharan Africans have as much as 1- 4% of neandethal and denisova genes in them, proving that the migrants from Africa bred with outside of Africa evolved hominids and laying to rest the proposition that they were several distinct human species.

shymmex: Interesting thread..

I'll quickly like to add the following:

Hausas are Afro-Asiatic and Nilo Saharan...

Yorubas/Edos are cushtic.

Igbos/Ijaws/Efik/Ibibio are bantu.

Don't know where you source that from above but let me clarify. Bantu is derived from common word/meanings used by many ethnic groups across east,central and southern Africa to represent the word "peoples". example would be Basotho, Batswana, Bacongo, Ba wemba, ubuntu,

Yorubas, Igbos, Ijaws efik and ibibio would derive part of their language vocabulary from proto-bantu migrants which means they may have similar words that may be derived from the root language of ancient speakers.


It is however likely that Yoruba migrations pre date other groups in Southern Nigeria coming from central Africa into the West as the yoruba language is more of a gbe language family more similar with groups to the West of Nigera and differs with south eastern languages who have more borrowed words from central Africa. Most southern languages in Nigeria are considered under the Kwa family-Niger Congo A

Hope thats clarifies enough for you.

[quote author=Ta_Xasa]It seems That the Afro-asiatic Groups Migrated West Before The Niger Congo related Tribes, If so then it does mean that the Niger-congo related Tribes were the most efficient in spreading/Branching and Efficiency when it came to growing Outwards and even Maybe influence. Good Post from you.[/quote]Some of the Afro asiatic and Nilo saharan groups that occupy the sahel and the sahara regions most likely originate from or share ancestors with North-east Africans as several groups continue their nomadic journeys westward along the Sahel and the sahara regions(possibly due to wars, famine or in search of water supplies). The "Asiatic" is combined to represent language influences and most likely genetic backward migrations into Africa from West Asia or what is known as the middle east ( note these migrations are before Arab conquests that bring mostly Arab peoples into north Africa).

These groups would include the ancient libyans, reminants of sea peoples originating from canaan, ancient nubian tribes as well as cushitic peoples that were scattered around border territories who were predominantly nomadic.

The nubians/cushitics would include your sudanese, nubians, oromo's, somali's and central African tribes.

screw all the inventions. Thats a trick questions. What have blacks contributed, well thats easy

800 million people on the planet who are alive and healthy

[quote author=Ta_Xasa]Hey sorry for the late reply.
Well that is the Thing, Most West west/west Middle and west North africa are Chadic,berber and Bantu's while the west south is Bantu together with most of southern africa and Part of east africa. You can see where the borders of those ethnic groups Meet and most have mixed together. Not all bantu Groups are from the direct same ancestory Either, Language doesn't always reflect your ancestory, I am sure there is many Nigerians In america today and some only speak english and over few generation they Might be labelled as American and share the same culture with americans whether black, white or others however we all know they are Nigerian By decsent while other american Have different ancestory.

I am a firm believer That East Nigeria/Camroon/North West Congo is where the Main Waves took place for bantu population tribes to spread South/East/West. This is where I believe The Bantu as a language Identity was Modified If you like to reflect todays Bantu speaking Groups. I aslo Believe That The one group who Most of the bantu population Broken from passed or skipped Through Egypt west ward maybe staying In egypt the Might actually Be The pre-dynastic Ancient Egyptians before they were pushed out from More waves coming from the east. they Moved to where Libya/Algeria is and Moved south as the Desert Invade southward so they pushed Into more Arable Lands for Growing. Once they settled in where East Nigeria/Cameroon/North West Congo the population growth made for Breaking up of the group to branch out in different directions. You see Artifacts Don't Lie Nigeria/Cameroon/Congo is where you would Find Pots etc from Bantu population dating Back to Thousands of Years, anywhere else Bantu Expansion is recently recorded Either deeper into the west of africa or deeper into south africa.[/quote]@ Ta Xasa

just to clarify your point above. You are correct in saying most North and North west Africans are Afro asiatic speakers of which subfamilies include Chadic-hausa speakers, Amazigh_Berber are included.

The second wave of West African langauges are the Niger- congo A speakers which include some sahelian-sahara groups. These are Twi, Fulani, Wolof, Yoruba, Mandinka, Igbo.

Please note these languages are not refered to as bantu languages. They do share possible origins with PROTO-BANTU languages unified under the assumption of the use of prefixes to classify nouns and the lack thereof (Polyglotta Africana, Koelle S.W. 1854). The bantu grouping would be eventually coined following the relative similarities with languages that disperse east and south and encounter other language families(such as the khoi-clicks, Arabic tonations) to become what is known as Bantu speakers.

[quote author=emöfine2]If the Bantus refers to central/southern Africa, Cushitic refers to East and Nilotic = East/Central and San = South Africa . . . where does that leave the majority of West Africans?
Nigeria (at least the South eastern part of Nigeria) along with Cameroon had been said to be the root of the Bantu languages/people.[/quote]@ emofine2

To answer your question regarding the majority of West Africa, the language families would give you an idea of the peoples that populate these areas. From Senegal strectching all the way down to the sudan there have been migrations that cut across the sahel and rain forest regions just below the Sahara. The main languages in the West are:

The Afro Asiatics such as Hausa,
The niger-congo A such as your kwa speakers, yoruba,Igbo, benin, twi, ashanti languages. These languages are postulated to have proto bantu origins. The Hausa language is more or less a Chadic Afro-Asiatic language. There are also influxes of nilo saharan speakers starting on the borders of West and central Africa flowing all the way into the West such as the Kanuri speakers.

You can confidently claim that West Africa has the most diverse combination of langauges that originate in Africa and it should be noted that these languages will undoubtedly have borrowed from one another through the centuries enough to skew each specific languge and make its origins a little more difficult to pinpoint.

cap28: as i have said before racism goes way beyond a personal dislike for someone - its about a system which is set up to ensure that people of a certain race remain powerless, divided and broken -this is why africa is in the state that its in - its under attack from a system designed to keep it in a state of permanent chaos and anarchy. And racists DO marry outside their race - all those middle aged white guys in port harcourt, warri and lagos are raging racists who just happen to have a taste for brown skin - who you sleep with has nothing to do with what you think of other races.




99% of white british people do not want a black person earning more than them, living in a better neighbourhood than them or being better educated than them.




we've been giving love and tolerance a chance for over 5 centuries and look at the result - the transatlantic slave trade, colonialism and neo colonialism - other races dont give love and tolerance a chance they just concentrate on developing themselves and their own people and they dont care who they have to hurt to get what they want - look at the japanese who actually went to war with britain and america - did you know that during the second world war all japanese immigrants resident in america were arrested and held in detention camps by the US govt ?  but today in america a japanese american can get a good job and have access to better opportunties in life than a black american?  The irony is that black americans actually fought in this same war on the side of their former slave masters?   what does that tell you?

AHHH. the power of negative energy eh Cap28

Still spreading your propaganda in the guise of emancipating the "minds' of your people.

If you didn't notice you completely derailed the topic into one or your banters bout the boogey "white" man.

so predictable, so pitiful

Morpheus says " YOU STILL IN THE UK??"

Thiza: In Nigeria, an estimated 3.6 percent of the population are living with HIV and AIDS.1 Although HIV prevalence is much lower in Nigeria than in other African countries such as South Africa and Zambia, the size of Nigeria’s population (around 149 million) means that by the end of 2009, there were 3.3 million people living with HIV.2

Approximately 220,000 people died from AIDS in Nigeria in 2009.3 With AIDS claiming so many lives, Nigeria’s life expectancy has declined significantly. In 1991 the average life expectancy was 54 years for women and 53 years for men.4 In 2009 these figures had fallen to 48 for women and 46 for men

I WONDER HOW MANY ARE NOW INFECTED

It's "obvious" you aint that smart otherwise the "porportionate" size of HIv infections in Nigeria in relation to their Population and that of South Africa's in relation to their population size would clue you into the exponential ability of the virus to spread and infected a greater "porportion" of people in either country.

Some of you saffas need to go back to school. No wonder your educational system aint working right

^^^^

Didn't we jsut do this trhead a couple of weeks ago