₦airaland Forum

BlackLibya:
^^^^

White is a color absent of hue.

I guess we should then use the term "people of hue" instead of "people of color" , just to be more accurate, don't you think.

MandingoII:
WHITE people are the ones with the INFERIORITY COMPLEX.


People of Color are the ones with the Riches, NOT white people.

I like the PC term "people of color". Its a fake anagram for the deragotory Western term,  'colored people' perpetuated by dimwitts who view the world as "white" vs "other people"

Oh by the way dimwitt.  Don't let your oppressors fool you. White is indeed a color as well.

^^^

That boy is some Dead carpet flying Arab!

[quote author=A.D.M. link=topic=806428.msg9609766#msg9609766 date=1321976331]To answer your first comment, maybe it's because they made that choice themselves and don't want to identify with people that owned and had their way with their African ancestors.[/quote]Touchy touchy now. I didn't say people don't have choices now did I and for your edimafication not all multiracial people in the US are products of "slave' owners having their way with African ancestors. Thats disingenous to multi racial couples and If they did by the way. then by now the changes would not be relevant enough for that person to pass as anything other than black in your 'universe'
[quote author=A.D.M. link=topic=806428.msg9609766#msg9609766 date=1321976331]For your second comment, you say Halle Berry would not be considered in black in other countries. How do you know? And who cares? There may be outside factors, but at the end of the day, people have minds of their own and have the ability to choose. There are some that identify as multiracial like Tiger Woods. He calls himself "Caublasian." Do I care? No. It's his choice. And black may mean different things in different countries, but I don't care. As a black American, my history runs through the antebellum south, the black experience in the USA. It's the only history that relates to me.[/quote]if you read through my other thread you would see the evidence. As regards your so called 'choice', is that really a choice or is it an "effect"  bound by the context of the American experience. People who wish to live in boxes and percieve reality as what they want it to be are free to do so as long as they do not think this constitutes absolute truth.

[quote author=A.D.M. link=topic=806428.msg9609766#msg9609766 date=1321976331]You still haven't answered my question. Why do you care about what someone calls himself or herself? It has no affect on you. I thought Africans didn't give a damn about black Americans, especially with the stereotypical and wrong idea of us being lazy and not wanting to work and such some have. You should worry about the problems plaguing your country and continent instead of what someone calls himself or herself.[/quote]You are obviously  reacting to some insult your anger filled subconcious is trying to deal with. It is not a prequisite that I 'care' about a particular topic which I express on. Curiosity is a sufficient human emotion akin to caring.

paniki:
And the chicken run never stops badmouthing SA and predicting its doom. That's why I don't like them. But of cause there are many patriotic South Africans abroad, I hope its mainly them who are coming back

You are so right on that one. I guess the grass wasn't greener on the other side with "their" white brothers in the UK and now SA is transitioning its time to come up. I guess they are allowd that luxury only I would be persuaded to ask the government to revoke their dual citizenship so they can't run away the next time.

I have always prefered those who Stay and fight

paniki:
Yes the English gave you guys a crap time the same way you Afrikaners gave us blacks crap times and now it's the blacks who are maltreating Zimbabweans, Somailians and other foreigners. What a vicious human cycle. And there's always some form of resentment down the whole chain except for the English of cause

http://mg.co.za/article/2009-12-01-end-of-an-era-for-argentinas-afrikaners

lets hope the Zims and Somalians turn theri anger towards Robert and Al shabaib eh!

cheikh:
BlackLibya

@^^ It's really amazing how myths and false stories have gained currency in Nigerian collective consciousness. They may use some west-African and Central African words in their Santarias or worship houses/places, it does not equate to them clearly understanding and speaking Yoruba or Igbo . Bro check your facts and talk to the people yourself to verify the veracity of your assertion. Maybe most of us would wish it to be so but it isn't!

he's probably speaking of the naija "expatriates' that call that place their new home

BlackLibya:
I didnt state that, although Africans and their descendents are the most well known and successful blacks(in terms of population/distribution) in the world. Morpheus I understand you're trying to be PC here.

PC. Far from it

BlackLibya:
blacks around the world associate themselves with[i] us[/i]. We are united not only by our skin colors, but the oppression we have faced because of it. M.I.A herself is a Tamil girl, not as dark as some but she associates herself with many aspects of African culture and has done much to promote both our and her own culture. She is even married to a black man. Unity is a beautiful thing dont hate it bro, dont fight it, black people want ways to identify with each other.

M.I.A only associates with "Black" culture in England because she raps and sings  and is heavily exposed to it.

If she travesl back to anywhere in South Asia I doubt she's gonna be screaming " I'm black , I'm Proud" over there.

Though darker  skinned than many Africans, most South Asians do not identify as "black" within social contexts.

How many Dark skinned indians do you know that identify as "black"  because of their oprressed states?

cheikh:
Trying to convince NLs to think deeper/ differently is a very hopeful wish indeed. Do you really have that kind of surplus energy?

Hope is a very power thing my friend.

paniki:
If you consider yourself black then you are black. Others might not agree based on your skin tone and many other factors, but if you consider yourself to be black then you are black

Thats fine with me. In fact thats halle berry's assertion. However how much of that 'consideration' is influence as a result of already existing  class "constructs' or the ability to fit into already existings groups for some "alterior' motive.

Halle berry really has no real "choice" of considering herself anyting other than black because those are only "real' choices within her societies constucts and a fear of defining herself outside of those walls would probably prove disastrous for her going both ways as an actor.

Case in point. Most coloured people of South Africa would have found it odd to consider themselves "black" as many still hold today  but we begin to notice that  as power structures shift and opportunities abound for those who are "considered" to be black you find many embracing their blackness.

Horus:
In Brazil 80% of the population in the city of Salvador da Bahia is black.

Clarify. By black do you mean African or Black skin?

BlackLibya:
Morpheus all of the people you posted are black. One cannot unbecome black, and berbers are original people. In west africa the Zenaga were one of the first and most powerful Berber groups, they were pitch black. Soooo

Don't know what you mean by "one cannot unbecome black"?. explain!

What you assert therefore is that to be considered black it must be synaymous with African? If so then are all these people  black and therefore African. Right?

Horus:
MID-YEAR POPULATION ESTIMATES 2011

Population group Number % of total
African 40 206 275 79.5%
White 4 565 825 9.0%
Coloured 4 539 790 9.0%
Indian/Asian 1 274 867 2.5%
TOTAL 50 586 757 100%

Source: Statistics South Africa

Wow its jumped from its previous 5%. Wonder what ti was pre 1994?

Yep.

I guess their fears of being butchered in numbers or their "jobs being stolen" has alleviated.

Hmm or maybe not?

^^^
if your answer was all these individuals consider themselves black then halle Berry must be black. If however they are not considered black then within those "social" contexts, Halle Berry would not be considered black

eGuerrilla:
@Morpheus, your post makes no attempt to conceal what appears to be indignation that some Brazilians take pride mostly in their African heritage or that most AA 's categorize themselves as black. Was this this intent?

You need to check my history on threads regarding this matter before you can question my intent.

eGuerrilla:
Why do you feel the need to place such an emphasis on biology, when even the uninformed recognises it as the very basis of the "one drop" rule which helped create various racial stratification groups.

THe question you need to be asking is are my assertions incorrect. If so then why are they. If not then what is the problem. People tend to over simplify these issues for what ever political or social motives yo wnat to conjur up. To see the world in black and white is simplistic. . However simple you want it to be and no matter who is tryng to define it doesn't make that the TRUTH in absolute terms

eGuerrilla:
How do you know Halle Berry would not be considered "Black" in Senegal, having never actually conducted any formal research in this area?
In my travels, I have met Senegalese who are several shades darker than me (with nappy hair to boot) who only feel comfortable passing themselves off as Arab.
Likewise, I have had the pleasure of knowing and working with others who would readily go to war if considered anything other than Black Africans.

You just answed your own question using your own example. "SOCIAL CONSTRUCTS" are simply that nothing more. Reality is what you perceive it to be. isn't it?

Would you consider each of these individuals black . Do they jsut have have African heritage , or both?

[quote author=A.D.M. link=topic=806428.msg9602511#msg9602511 date=1321889265]Well, according to the article from The Guardian, more and more black people in Brazil are expressing pride in being of African descent. Are you saying they're wrong?[/quote]Nope!. how could they be? Then again How could they not take pride in their native indian or European heritage either. I wonder why thats a conflict?

[quote author=A.D.M. link=topic=806428.msg9602511#msg9602511 date=1321889265]From your bottom comment, you obviously know little about AA history. Those two people consider themselves to be AA. Ask the second guy what his ethnic background is and he'll tell you he's black. If you're trying to insinuate somebody forced them into it, you're wrong and it shows how little you Africans know about AA history and culture. Unlike others, most, if not all, BAs don't really go into blood quantums. We know we have "other" in our DNA, but we still say we're black. I guess that's the difference between us and other black folks.[/quote]Cause AA 's categorize themselves as black for mostly political and social reason doesn't really mean much in terms of biology. Black can take on different meanings in differnt places depending. if Halle berry walked down the streets of Senegal West Africa she would not be considered Black, if she walked down the streets of cape town, she would not be condsidered black either.

Therefore being black is heavily defined by social constructs that are determined by several factors.

The fact that some Brazilians take pride in mostly their African heritage more that a multiplicity of their ethnic make up is heavliy influenced by "class" constructs that create boundaries made by men

The only reason  mixed AA's identify primarily as black regardless of their multiple heritage is primarily based on the one drop rule and you know it .

[quote author=sa_lassie link=topic=802250.msg9593571#msg9593571 date=1321748394]The Africans I know and love best after SA are the Kenyans. I am fortunate to have made friends with many of them over the years. I am sure there are mean Kenyans out there, but I've yet to meet a Kenyan I didn't like. I feel an instant connection with them. They are a very gentle and hospitable people. Nigerians can be intimidating in comparison. [/quote]Of course, everybody likes the Kenyans. Very well read and very "proper" if I might add. I personally find that quite boring

150 million people squeezed into a limited space on the African continent would most likely exhibit these traits of loudness, forcefulness and aggression  and this does put some people off but its who we are and what defines us as a people. We are an animated bunch.

We would not be Nigerians if we we were not

[quote author=sa_lassie link=topic=802250.msg9592642#msg9592642 date=1321735412]Morpheus, thanks. I hope this settles it. But you still haven't answered my questions! [/quote]It does for me but I doubt it will for people who refuse to admit  their own limitations.

In response to your question if I got it right is that in general Nigerians are aggressive debaters. The overwhelming sense of competition we face growing up has trained us to inevitably drive our view points in very assertive ways so much so that we sometimes loose focus on what we are arguing about and turn the conversation in bats of who can abuse the other better.

This unfortunately includes calling out the opponent on their authenticity, knowledge base and the fact that they could be anything other than "nigerian"

Don't take it too seriously,  its lack of exposure

[quote author=sa_lassie link=topic=802250.msg9592481#msg9592481 date=1321733977]Morpheus: OK. Ek is verbaas dat jy my nou skielik ook nie wil glo nie. Ek het gedog ons was besig om mekaar te leer ken. Wat kan ek se? Ja, ek is regtig net n gewone „common“ (soos die Engelse ons noem) Afrikaaner. Ek is net nuuskierig oor een ding: hoekom glo jy my nie? Soos ons se „dit maak my sommer diep die moer in“, maar dis OK want ek like jou nogal. Ek weet daar is baie bedonnerde mense op the net wat troll en kak aan jaag, maar ek is nie een van hulle nie. Ek weet nie wat ek nog kan se om jou te oortuig nie. [/quote]Esshh! You don't have to convince me, I have hung out with Afrikaaners enough to know when someone is faking it.

cap28:
okay sa lassie first of all i was born in the UK - I have both british and nigerian passports although i do not regard myself as a british citizen.

i am therefore overqualified to criticise a system into which i was born into and if it means telling white people the truth about themselves then i am going to do it and no-one particularly you can stop me from doing so.

The famous Nation of islam apostle line stolen from Macolm X. Right on brother lol

cap28:
let me say one thing - first of all you dont fool me for one minuite you are not white, you do not express yourself like a white person - you express your
self like a nigerian - you are probably one of those white apologists who continue to make excuses for whites despite the glaring evidence staring you in your face. i will come to the reasons for your selective amnesia in a minute but a lot of it is caused by years of miseducation which has been purposely designed to keep you psychollogically enslaved to the white man.

This conspiracy theory can be easily dispelled . A Nigerian posing as an Afrikaner would find it quite difficult to write  in Afrikaans as Afrikkans is not generally used in univeristies or written outside of the community. SA lAssie could  plese authenticate yourself by writing in Afrikaans. Trust me I would know if you were faking

cap28:
another reason why i dont beleive you are a white person is because - most informed white people are well aware of what their govts are doing all over africa and quite a few of them are just as enraged as some black people about it - i have found that when whites are genuinely interested in africa they are very honest and in some cases more militant than blacks, i will give you one example - if you go on the mathaba website you will find a ot of european and american writers writing articles about the atrocities committed against the libyan people - they recognise that NATO is a terrorist organisation created to further the main objective of europe and america - WHITE SUPREMACY - and yet we have you pretending to be a white south african but sounding very much like a brainwashed nigerian, white apologist.

Obviously you don't know much about most White SOuth aAfricans .

cap28:
the one thing i find so nauseating about white apologists like you is that you think that just because you have been given a few crumbs by your white masters that means you are a success story - let me educate you - the white man knows how weak minded many blacks like you are - dont forget he is the one that created the system therefore in order to ensure that you never unite with your black brother to face up to your common enemy - him - he allows a few blacks to acheive "success" but this success is always on his own terms never on yours - he allows you to acquire some of the trappings of wealth in order to make you feel that racism is an excuse used by blacks who simply cant and wont get their act together - but all this is is a modern day version of the house negro and the field negro - the house negro gets to sleep in the attic and is allowed to wear massas old clothes and eat his left over food while the field negro is left to sleep out in the barn and eat whatever scraps he can find - this scenario is what we have today amongst the black population - you have a few paid off negros whose job it is to pacify and control the vast majority of blacks who are catching hell from a system designed to keep blacks in a permanent form

Quotes stolen frmm Malcolm X's biography, historoy 101 lessons again. At least be more original will ya. We've heard this stuff for like DOnkey years now. Its kinda getting old
Is this what you were trying to say, next time be generous to the authors you steal these ideas from. cyber warrior:

"I am not sneering at the liberals and their involvment. Neither am I suggesting that they are the most to blame for the black mans plight. Rather I am stating the fundamental fact that total identification with an oppressed group in a system that forces one group to enjoy privilege and to live on the sweat of another is impossible. White society collectively owes the blacks so huge a debt that no one member should automatiaelly expect to escape teh blanket condemnation that needs must come from the black world. It is not as if whites are allowed to enjoy privilege only when they declare their solidarity with the ruling party . They are born into privilege and are nourished by and nutured in the system of ruthless exploitation of black energy. No matter how genuine a liberal's motivations may be, he has to accept that though he did not choose to be born into privilege , the blacks cannot but be suspicious of his motives.

BIko I write what I like,

[quote author=sa_lassie link=topic=802250.msg9588148#msg9588148 date=1321664449]@Cap28 this begs the question: since you hate white people so much, why are you in the UK? I honestly don’t understand what people are doing in these very countries that they hate. I very deliberately have avoided setting foot in England. I’ve gotten an offer to work in the US (not because I’m white! Please!), but I’ve turned it down because there is no way I want to be a part of that society. I'd rather struggle in my own country than live well in theirs.

So why are so many white haters in the US, Europe, Australia and NZ? My beef with them is political, but for some of you guys it is both that and racial. Honest question guys. I don’t get it. It would be humiliating for me to be there. Why are you there?[/quote]I keep waiting for the answer to that question. Unfortunately I get the usual I have the right to live anywhere I want cause "Whitey" stole from my continent and all that crap.
Baffles me I tell ya!

[quote author=Negro_Ntns link=topic=805460.msg9586925#msg9586925 date=1321647951]@op,

The reason is partly what everyone has mentioned but there is a factor that we all should equally attend to.

First, the industrialization of Europe was subsisted on resources exploited in places outside of Europe. Without iron ore the steel industry of Europe will have no meaning; without rubber sap, there will be no tires to mount on automobiles; without gum arabic, there will be o preservatives to prolong shelf life of canned and bottled goods; without cocoa there will be no cocoa beverage and chocolates, . . . so the need to produce and market these finished products generated plants and production lines and storage and retailing, massive outlets for job creations in Europe and America.

As industries grew, corporations exploded and became greedy. The world was a market and to maximize profit efficiency was introduced. Time studies were done to calibrate productivity and output levels. . .technology was introduced and the mechanization of work process and task activities led to improved outputs.

Technological blueprints were scalable and reproducible. Then political intervention in market deregulation and trade treaties installed anti-trust laws to control monopoly in global trading. Aggressive tariffs by these countries that were traditional suppliers of iron ore, cocoa, rubber, coffee, copper and other stuffs to the European industries opened doors for them to enter into local production and competition. India, Brazil, China, Thailand, and so on . . . .entered these markets and reduced Europe's monopoly.

Now we see same countries coming to Africa to continue the same exploitation where England, France, Germany, Netherlands, Spain left
off.

Africa has failed to use trade regulations to curtail exploitation. This is part reason why these countries donate moneyand aid funds - as a way to keep us out of competing with them. If we did, their access to our resources will be severely diminished and our entry into global market will be noticed acutely.[/quote]Excellent analysis. i would add that if these African countries are to deal with these new entities, the second time around should make us weary of what thier intentions are and we need to learn to "negotiate' outcomes that will be beneficial for the populous.

This will prove decisive if we are to comeout ahead in this second wave of the world's focus on African resources. We are yet to maximize the human capital potentials that build progress which is translated into value vis a vis Capital

[quote author=Negro_Ntns link=topic=802250.msg9587006#msg9587006 date=1321648669]sa lassie,

It is very easy for you to just throw that out here. It is insultive1 I find it very demeaning and insultive that you will be asking Black Africans to yield and accomodate everyone as all Africans. In North Africa, and even in East Africa, people of light skin are quick to identify themselves as separate and different from the black skinned African.

Africa, from Egypt to Morrocc, all down to South Africa, are all Black land. The light skinned Africans should be desirous and agitating for our acceptance and approval, they should be rolling and stepping over one aother to be identified as Black. . . they should be striving to mix blood with the Negro and black out the blank coloration of their skin. We don't have to yield. . . we don't have to see them as Africans if they wish not to be associated as BLACKS!! If its your desire to see a united people on this continent then thats a good ideal; go and preach to them to direct their gaze inward to the continent, and ot outward to Europe.[/quote]Now you know thats real ignorant of you to say that. I expect more from you Negrontns. You do understand that White south africans still suffer from the concept of "white privilegde" accorded them for such a long time and require a re-orientation in terms of enculturation and aculturation which goes both ways I might add in order to sustain a symbioitic relationship.

Your obvious gripe is that it has been one sided for a long time, but proposig that it go entirely the other way as some sort of balancing act is simply a re-enactment of " the oprressors" technique. That process must be organic in other to truly sustain.

^^^
Brazils football teams. We get the point already

[quote author=A.D.M. link=topic=806428.msg9586011#msg9586011 date=1321637694]And your point is? Yes, white men (not all were ethnically Portuguese) had their way with black African women in Brazil, same thing in the United States. Ever heard of Louisiana Creoles? They have African, French, and Amerindian heritage. I see no difference in that. As for those guys, one can also say American actresses LisaRaye McCoy and Whoopi Goldberg are different people. And what if they are considered the same people? Does that bother you? If so, why?

And another thing, if blacks in Brazil want to express pride in being black, why do you care? It's their business, not yours or mine. There are white people who scream "white pride world wide." It doesn't offend me.[/quote]And the point is "BRAZILIANS ARE A HEAVILY MIXED POPULATION" and can take pride in their African Ancestry as much as their Indian or Portugese ancestry. Neither one is more inherently important than the other in a biological context.

One drop of Black blood does not make you black. It makes you Human!


these two people have mixed ancestry and are considered both AA only to suit socio-political agendas of "labeing ' people to accomodate social constructs.

[quote author=A.D.M. link=topic=806428.msg9585616#msg9585616 date=1321632979]What morpheus24 says makes no sense. Of course African descendants in the west have some white and Amerindian in them. But that doesn't and shouldn't stop them from expressing love in their blackness. African-Americans still use the term black and AA. I see nothing wrong Afro-Brazilians doing the same.[/quote]You seem to forget that Brazil is seriously different from the US in terms of its black population. THem portugese were serious Hot devils and pretty much left their imprint on a majority of the "African" population in brazil so much so visible than AA's.

Afro- Brazilian pride can go pretty much any direction in terms of its native indian, portugese or African heritage.

I seriously doubt that these two people can be considered the same

Eh technically them "africans' over there should be considered of miixed heritage.