₦airaland Forum

Pidgin2:
I don't know if you know how annoying and condescending you South Africans seem on this thread? Honestly, if you ever try putting on this attitude if anything brings you down to Nigeria, I trust my people, they will remind you that we saved your sorry ass' from white supremacists in your country.

Stop this unnecessary interrogations Zulu being and stop spoiling this thread. Go away from here to your South African/Zulu natal blogs, stop this xenophobia stuff and GETOUT of here pls.

Guy you cant blame them honestly.
1.They do not know much about anything outside of the country and they just got it back 20 years ago so no rush to leave.
2. Their cultures are centered around closely knit families so they do not venture far.
3. They have a skewed perception of the rest of the continent because they see an influx of immigrants into the country and so assume everything outside cannot be reasonably better than what they have.


When I lived in the US i found this phenomena very evident in African Americans as well. i am not sure what the link is, possibly as result of being mis-educated by an oppressive govt. Funny thing is the White population in SA and America are eager to spread their wings any where in the world. I guess it boils down to culture.

czaratwork:
Abeg a million Nigerians will give an arm to be in your place. please stay put and enjoy your country.

A million poor Nigerians would give an arm and leg. Did she tell you she is poor?

afrikanbabe:
Hai Shem. Be strong ladies. I'm laughing at how much this is surprising you. Open your minds and the world is your oyster. ZarZar, asking Mduza uyanthemba (trusts me)? Hahaha. You're right, it's perfectly okay for you to take things with a grain of salt. You never know these days. But this post was directed to Nigerians living there about work opportunities. So, as for you trusting me or not and typing in Zulu to decipher me hahah. It's hilarious

As I mentioned earlier Africanbabe, you need to take that leap of faith and go. You will become a better person for it when you remove yourself from your comfort zone and venture out. There are risks to moving to Nigeria but I am not too worried about you because you have already been there before and are not totally clueless of where you are going to.

PS worse case scenario, if you get in trouble your embassy is situated somewhere off Ajose Adeogun in Victoria island, Take a taxi there, show them your passport or speak strong Tswana or fanagalore to them and you are on a one way ticket back to OR tambo

ZarZar:
Can you blame me for having mixed reactions though? Yours is a curious case, hence I'm not sure if it's for real or not. Where you are going aside, mentally, I'm trying to put myself in the same situation of deciding to move permanently to a place where I don't have any relatives etc & it's a scary thought. I'm sure I'm not the only one that finds it hard to understand but oh well.

In other words what you are again insinuating is that it is very unusual for "Black" SA's to leave their country to places where they have no family support. White SA's do this all the time and no one finds it strange how they have left in droves carrying their skills or adventurous spirits.

As mentioned earlier, the reason it seems unusual is because of the perception that most black SA's have become accustomed to as regards the rest of Africa and so it is difficult to fathom that one would move from a SA to say Ghana

justwise:
Stick to the topic of this thread and stop derailing it by engaging in unrelated issues

"unrelated issues"?

justwise:
I know you are familiar with Nigeria and Nigerians but be very careful who you contact from here, I don't want to remember this thread for all wrong reasons.

Good luck.

@ Justwise

Stop deleting threads that do not break any of the rules of the forum.

afrikanbabe:
Morpheus24,

You took the words right out of me. My sentiments EXACTLY!
Who no know go know!

Thank you for this

I would have recommended Abuja to you since the pace of life is slower and a little more organized but it seems you already have first had knowledge of Lagos life.

A caveat though about life in lagos, long term the craziness of can get exhausting after a while and begin to get bothersome and more complex as you get older so always keep your options open. South Africa is not far from Nigeria so I advice you always visit home and touch base with your family as often as you can. SA's are very tight knit with family and they do not move far away from each other as opposed to Nigerians who are encouraged to go as far as their wits can take them anywhere round the world

@ africanbabe

You can live and work in Nigeria if that is where your heart is. I have met a couple of South Africans who feel the same way you do and after lengthy discussions with them kinda understand the reasons for it.

I would presume that you like the hustle and bustle of the city life in Lagos and have fallen in love with the culture of Nigeria.

Some others like you I have come across have also intimated to me that there is a sense of freedom they feel being in an "all black country" and a sense of "racial pride" and communism they feel when they are in Nigeria albeit of course other issues like electricity problems, infrastructure and somewhat casual arrogance of the average Nigerian. Something they say is absent in South Africa at least in their personal experiences.

I say go for it, you have absolutely nothing to loose. I know a South African lady who works in Abuja now as an interior decorator and in the past five years I have known her, she has only been back to South Africa twice on short visits.

LeSudAfricaine:
thank you 14

14 is an ignoramous at best and an im.becile at worst

The first part of his right up about middle class number is fallacious. Tell him to post his source

The second part is completely irrelevant to the topic or any subject matter. What has the number of Shopping malls got to do with the high unemployment rate or XEnophobia for that matter.

LeSudAfricaine:
since you like talking about relative numbers, how many Nigerians are in the states compared to other Africans?

You and I know that is an easy answer just by extrapolation. There are approximately 1 billion Africans on the continent and Nigeria stands at 170 180 million of that number which would mean 18% of African citizens are Nigerians which aslo means for every 18 persons in Africa you come across on a random basis in the US it is highly likely 1 of them is a Nigerian

LeSudAfricaine:
if there were the same numbers of Gambians in the state as the Nigerians they would also excell because they would be in an environment that allows them to flourish

This is a hypothetical, I deal with probables and plausibles. The probability and presented numbers will not change the fact that Nigerians on an absolute number basis will a large number of immigrants anywhere who excel.

LeSudAfricaine:
People in the bottom pile, the slums, the marginalized should not represent what an average South African is.

Insightful as your statement may be which you wish applied to South Africans unfortunately exposes the very mindset of your people

MtuMsuper:
Please come to Nairobi and Mombasa and take away your bad eggs. They have infested our land. Pthoii! We don't have a drug consumption or dealing culture here. We are tired ooo! Population nko population ni, how have you leveraged it for the common good. Please don't get me started!

At least you are appealing to "come, and take away" as compared to a South African who will tell you we are coming to kill and loot your property if you don't go away.

The difference btw the temperament of a Kenyan and a South African.

14:
Last time i checked, Nigeria had 1.4m middle class and South Africa had 36m middle class. Nigerians like to throw numbers around with no crdible stats. Your middle class is smaller than that of SA. if you dispute this, i can give u reliaboe stats to show you nigerian economy is just on paper, but in reality is none existance.

E.g. SA has 850 KFC stores, Nigeria has 27
SA has 2000 malls, Nigeria has 25
SA has 6m Dstv subscribers, Nigeria has 1.6m
SA has 1400 shoprite stores, Nigeria has 29
SA has 2017 budget of $120bn, Nigeria's 2017 budget stands at $23bn.

you see my man, south africa beat you in every indecies except in popu

Obviously you want to degenerate this topic into a Naija vs SOuth Africa as usuall. A diversionary tactic used by most of you when we are discussing Xenophobic issues to deflect from the main subject of discourse.

I will however comment on your above write up which would render any sensible statistician stupefied.

Point 1. 1/3 or 34% of your population is unemployed or under employed and in the same vain 72% are considered middle class. Hmmmm

Point 2. There are approximately 10 million Nigerians living outside of the country and at least 15% of that number would fall into a middle class to upper middle class category, that would be 1.5 million of them. This is the population of Nigerians LIVING OUTSIDE NIGERIA and yet you claim a total Nigerian middle class of 1. 4 million as an entire population.


Bantu education is a disease

LeSudAfricaine:
and therefore I ask , if black south Africans 're mostly illiterate then what is it that makes SA' s rate better than your country? If yo reason that the reason we make the biggest middle class is due to the numbers game, why not apply e same logic to the literacy levels?

Compare apples with apples and oranges with oranges

The last I researched, SA's black middle class stood at about 6 million and in ratio to the overall "black" population in SA, 40 million, stands at about 15% of the population.

Nigeria middle class as of 2014 stood at about 25 million people and in ratio to total population of 170 million would also stand around 15% as well.

In absolute numbers Nigerians would have more people living in the middle class category and THIS IS IN EXCLUSION of approximate 10 million citizens living outside the country.

The same would hold when you refer to literacy level in terms of absolute and relative numbers.

SA literacy level_People above 15 who can read and write 93%
Nigeria stands at > 70%

When you take population size into account absolute terms will show there are obviously more literate Nigerians as compared to South Africa but definitely not in relative terms

Most stats take a assumptive "cetris paribus" into account so there are variables you can explore to explain the relative disparities in literacy numbers such as population size, allocation of resources, etc.


In other words its like you bragging about literacy levels in Botswana as compared to Nigeria in relative terms when their population size is only about 1.7 million people

LeSudAfricaine:
that has nothing to do with being Nigerian. When you are in a foreign country you are forced to make ends meet and be innovative. Btw black south Africans do own salons, creches, eateries etc. It's no biggie

1.It has everything to do with Nigerians because in every country you find us we are the " foreign black African" group that excel the most. We are the group that attend colleges and Universities the most, the group that make up the largest number of professional such as doctors, lawyers, teachers and the likes even in porpotion to our large population size.Take a trip to Havard, Yale, Oxford, London school of business, even your Univerisites. This is statistically undeniable so don't try.

2. The point is not black South Africans owning the same business but the ability to compete, excel and in some cases dominate in the same environment. Your people are more used to fighting to get what they want than actually being "able" to innovate, an inherited attitude from Pre-Apatheid era. When confronted with these adversarial conditions you want to fight your way out. This is the reason you also resent Somali spaza shop keepers because you can't figure out how they are able to survive and thrive in the same conditions.

ZarZar:
Sigh. Isn't China exploiting everyone though? They didn't gain their current economic boom by being dumb. They're strategic people, hence they don't like to attract too much attention to themselves. This conversation bores me now Morpheus, so I'll let you take out your beef with South Africa(ns) on another willing participant. Peace.

No beef, just logic arguments but I can accept that digging deep into the core rationals might be heavily tasking on your mind so you are excused.

MduZA:
if you think south Africans are xenophobe's...just pack your things and leave !

That would be a defeatist stance.

Why don't your people just leave these foreigners alone and concentrate on galvanizing yourself as a community and solve your unemployment issues by learning how to create jobs like some of these foreigners instead of waiting for government handouts.

MduZA:
we cannot allow them to turn our country into drugs infested country...never

I have come to realize you are a semi illiterate or simply a retard so the statements you make are always incoherent.

No comment I have made supports the illicit dealing in drug activity so this rant and raving is just indicative of what you represent as a South African mind set. No one told you not to root out drug dealers in your community, foreign or local.

Do not mask your overall resentment with this one particular issue. What about taking your jobs, your women, taking your flats, receiving government assistance, setting up spaza shops and out competing you in your own backyard and the general contempt you have because some of them are succeeding where you can't in your own country. A projection of your own failures.

LeSudAfricaine:
we did not work hard to develop our country? Loooool.the problem with you Nigerians is that you reason with envy and jealousy for the black south African. Are you telling me that no black south African laid a brick in he building of his country? You people think infrastructure is a destination and its not, it's an on going process. are you telling me that our educated people the engineers, architechts , economists etc are not involved in further developin their country?We certainly did not inherit good roads electicty, schools, etc we had to do that for ourselves.

I withdraw my earlier description of the phrase "working hard" and agree you did lay bricks and stones to build the country. If that is something to be proud of while being exploited in the process I concurr.

Inherited development does insinuate that there is no development after, therefore the statement is not erroneous or incorrect

LeSudAfricaine:
and yet these black south Africans make the biggest middle class in SA.

False premise. Misleading

They would of course my dear, if you are comparing their numbers in relative terms to the total middle class population in SA in terms of race. This does not negate the fact that a larger population of unskilled,semi skilled and illiterate SA's are black.

LeSudAfricaine:
How many kids have access to primary school education in both countries? How come the literacy rate of S.A. trumps that of yours then? Lemme guess, it is because of your beloved "whites"right? But they make 8 percent of the population and not all of them are educated.

Unemployment is a global problem you are not immune to it

Digressing. This is not a debate about educational levels in Africa. Its a pointing to the fact that a large population of black South Africans fall under the category of unskilled, underskilled and illiterate. Therefore do not have the skills needed to plug into the economy or benefit effectively from it.

LeSudAfricaine:
Where are these enterprising Nigerians you always waxing lyrical about? I clearly don't see them. You are known all over Africa for cutting corners and making easy money. FACT! The business Nigerians do in SA is either cutting hair, selling belts on pavements and of course drug trafficking, tell the "we are enterprising" story to the gods

Enterprising connotates words such as an adventurous disposition, readiness and eagerness to undertake challenges, spirit of daring. In otherwords people with nothing come to South Africa and out of nothing produce something. They do not like working for others. They open up clubs, eateries, creches, barbing salons, import/export businesses and the likes. Why are there not a plethara of your people who are doing themselves. Why are they waiting on government for welfare is the question you should be asking.

LeSudAfricaine:
yet you call dark Africans " charcoal " and then you come here and give me a pan African speech, sorry don't buy it

Huh

Where did I refer to dark Africans as "charcoal"??

LeSudAfricaine:
In Malaysia and many of these Asian countries they see a black person they automatically assume it's a Nigerian and that's a fact! Why do some Nigerians masquerade as Ghanians abroad? You've spoiled it for Africans accept it and move on

Assumption galore. If it is fact. Prove it. Evidence to support this premise. It is presumptive to declare this as fact.

False premise. If Nigerians masquerade themselves as other nationalities this would further strengthen the argument that Nigerians spoilt their own name and not the names of other because They would be assuming the identity of a less suspicious person which would also indicate that Asians can differentiate or do not discriminate these nationalities in the same manner they do Nigerians.

ZarZar:
I said nothing about "fear". I said the issues in our community sometimes reach a boiling point & the people attack those they perceive to be the root of the problem. Again, they attack the people they live with so to speak. Personally, I don't think the South African issue is xenophobic, more than it is frustration mixed with social ills that the govt. is not addressing quick enough. However, I'm not an expert so if whatever is happening qualifies as xenophobia, then xenophobia it is. Btw, everybody knows that Chinese keep to themselves so they rarely become targets because they don't mix with everybody but other Chinese nationals. Chinese are not trouble makers by nature, so the only loss most of them incur, almost weekly, are robberies. They're also aware that it comes with the package of living in a crime infested society because they rarely make noise about it.

The point is are you being exploiting by these foreign nationals aka the CHinese and the Europeans. Are you or are you not?

Just because these people wall themselves away from you does not negate the fact that you are being exploited by them.

Just because one population lives side by side with you and are flamboyant in their show of exploitation and the other are restrictive and hide away from you does not eliminate the cause-effect of the situation now does it?

LeSudAfricaine:
Is there any country in Africa with as many African immigrants as South Africa? We've been living side by side with Zimbabweans, Mozambicans etc for many decades are we all of a sudden xenophobic? I for one don't give a rat's asss for being called xenophobic the term has lost its relevance

The term has not lost its relevance. The term is very relevant because it embodies the total grievance of SA against Foreigners and black ones in particular.

1. An influx of immigrants into the country induced the "fear" of foreign nationals also know as Xenophobia

2. The Zimbabweans and Mozambicans you lived with in peace was post 1994 and post collapse of economies in the countries you mentioned

3. You should give a rats ass for being labelled as such and come out to repudiate the stereotype as we repudiate our stereotypes

LeSudAfricaine:
everyone complains about Nigerians, t only becomes a problem when its South Africa. Do you know he treatment meted on them by the indians in india?

False narrative.

Countries complain about illicit activities perpertrated my a minority number of Nigerians

South Africans complain about ALL FOREIGNERS including Nigerians who engage in illicit activity in their country. Difference.

LeSudAfricaine:
Belgium has many immigrants from the Congo and other francophone countries but you would never hear negative stories about such people.

False narrative. Belgians is one of the European countries that are protesting against immigrants in general including Africans.

MduZA:
selling drugs and using teenage girls as prostitutes ,that's what they call jobs..whether we are lazy or xenophobic,we don't care...this is our country..if they don't want to behave like humans...let them go back to their zooooo..or else

You are diverting from the evidence I have presented. Again if there are criminal elements in your society who are engaged in these activities, produce evidence by surveillance, facts, proof, video footage, interviews with ex prostitutes, ex drug dealers etc to support your claim.

Are you that slow that seeing is believing. If you do this and present it then the whole world will support you when you drive us all out.

Do I have to teach you how to produce evidence or do you just like to complain about everything.