₦airaland Forum

JMAN05:
The anus is on you to disprove my position. Tell me why complex thing like aeroplane can pop out from nowhere

JMAN05:
You are describing total omniscience. I dont believe God is such. He is inherently omniscient. Again, He has not predestined all humans. Our lives are not ruled by fate. We are responsible for our actions.

True, some believe God is totally omniscient, I dont subscribe to that.

Bacteriologist:
Seeing the evidence of God every where is not an evidence in itself. That is just a statement you have made that YOU see the evidence of God everywhere. You still haven't presented your evidence. You only said you see it.


Human body being a miracle is an unsubstantiated claim born from ignorance. A miracle is an event/something that is deemed greater than the natural (i.e supernatural). A miracle would be a suspension of natural laws.

The human body has been proven to have formed as a result of completely natural processes and not supernatural processes. So your assertion that the human body is a miracle is indeed incredibly mistaken, false and demonstrably so.

JMAN05:
Mimic humans and create a human like me "with a conscience", then I will take you serious. Till then, this continuous to be my evidence of a Higher Intelligent Designer.

Good. Create life from nonliving thing, then i can take you serious.

MuttleyLaff:
You do know, you can go to blazes with your worthless worship, that your nobody needs and nobody will miss when you hold it back, lol.

You're correct, it is the god of this world, the devil, who led A&E to open the Pandora box and thereafter unleash the whole wide world with the evils it unrestrainedly released out.

"Those who love thy law (i.e. for example, dont eat the fruit) have great peace,
and nothing causes them to stumble."
- Psalms 119:165

Mr Bacteriologist Sanctimonious Holier-than-God himself, he that is without sin, let him cast a first stone, but then try the following questions for size. Lets from your replies find out somethings, lol.

1/ Did God force anyone's hand, did God drag anyone by the legs to go commit evil hmm?
2/ Has God ever at all advised you to do something evil?
3/ Have you Bacteriologist, an example of any living creature with breath of life in it, you have created or are capable of creating, lol, smh, hmm?
4/ Do you always like standing on a wobbly table with uneven legs and be shaking it, lol?

Fine, but then be looking forward to a fate that someone with your attitude deserves, lol.

Look around you, even your existence has God's signature written all over, on and around you

I am not obliged to prove you anything about whether A&E existed or not, neither about they did/didnt do the things the Bible said they did. You have the right and choice to take or not take, the Bible by its words, lol

It doesnt stop me sleeping soundly

You know what, when you have created, hmm, let me think of something very simple now, yeah, say, a common little mosquito, then you can climb your moral high ground, but until then for now all you're doing is having a moral rage and what that does, is, it limits your correct and clear view of God.

You see, Mr Bacteriologist Sanctimonious Holier-than-God himself, you live in an immoral glasshouse, yet you start throwing moral stones at imaginary immoral glass houses while standing on the moral quicksand of the moral high ground, lol. It doesnt get hilariously better than this. The moral high ground can be a treacherous place, lol. Dont worry, if all that went over your head, lol, it will need a moment, for you to cop on lol

blueAgent:
You still did not answer my question.

There are things the bible are silent on, which are up yo our discretion to know if it is right or wrong.
Example in the Bible there was nothing like football and some sports which will participate in, are you saying that because some of those sports have pagan origin than those involved in them are going to Hell.
Do you know that Olympics have pagan Origin?
same with most of the products you use daily most have pagan or occult logo and symbols?

JMAN05:
The Bible recommends physical training. (1 Tim 4:8.)

There are things that have pagan origin and up till now still maintain that significance. I feel that engaging in such activities will soil my relationship with God. For that will mean that am engaging in worship unacceptable by God.

Olympic is pagan and I still see it maintain that significance till date. Notice they always have that flame, without which the Olympic won't hold. I don't watch nor participate in Olympic games.

Hairyrapunzel:
Even internet you use has pagan origin and still has pagan significance yet you use it. Smh

Hairyrapunzel:
Encyclopedia is even of pagan origin. Secular sources and you make reference to it. Lol

shadeyinka:
Picture 2 is certainly unchristianly.
Picture 1 is the way it should be

shadeyinka:
I think you should be the one to clear up your position since you seem to know what my position/interpretation of the phrase "a woman should not have authority over men!" mean.

So my bro, I am waiting!

shadeyinka:
Dear Apostle-Teacher MuttleyLaff!,

shadeyinka:
Can you please explain what you mean by "not having authority over men" mean because,

shadeyinka:
I don't remember defining that and you feel my use of the phrase " women should not have authority over men in the church" mean something else than the standard plain meaning.

Yours Sincerely,
Shadeyinka

shadeyinka:
I didn't mean YOU were violating the logos. It was a general statement which meant that "women excercising authority" in the church violates the literal logos. But don't forget that the letters kill...

shadeyinka:
In the CHURCH of God, according to the scriptures, that is the position. Women should not exercise authority over men in the church.

But I have added that there could be exceptions. Whenever there is a problem/abbreviation of the church, God could raise stones or even women to do His work. God is not dogmatic. Same with head covering:when a woman's spirituality is dependent on "head covering", there is a big big problem

shadeyinka:
I think I have done that: there must be order in the church. It's just like head covering where Paul says "If anyone has a contention, we have no other tradition"!

shadeyinka:
If you ask me, my take about Paul is that he views women as "distractions" and intellectually inferior to me. Hence, he says

1Pet 3:7:
"Likewise, you husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honor to the wife, as to the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered."

1Cor 14:35:
"And if they will learn any thing , let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

But it could be that Paul was referring strictly to the Corinthian church (for there was men-women argument about who "owns" Christ more).

Following the logos strictly, women should learn doctrine from their husbands at home

JMAN05:
Verse 8 says he gave gifts unto men". The interlinear, word for word says "gave gifts to the men".

MuttleyLaff:
I am going to leave your comment like it is, and let others come to correct you and it or let you yourself, come to correct yourself about what "men" in Greek indeed and truly means, lol. Jokingly speak, maybe, if it was a woman who wrote that, perhaps, its "women' in place of "men" we would have seen and be reading, lol.

CaveAdullam:
You are just trying to twist 1 Corinthians 12:28 and Ephesians 4:11 to satisfy your opinion. Both passages are clear like daylight, and there is no need trying to upsurge a particular interpretation.

My points are already stated in my previous posts, repeating myself will be of no essence.

Thanks.

God bless.

BlueAngel444:
what did he twist

Finallydead:
This is to clarify Eph 4:8-11. Eph 4:8-11 is a quotation of Paul from Ps 68:18, and Paul never tried to change a single word of it. The actual interpretation of both the Hebrew and Greek texts correctly reads "...gave gifts of men...". In other words, the gifts he gave were those of the human race that were apostles, prophets.... You can confirm this on every possible bible exposition too. In the Hebrew, the word used for men is "Adam", a Hebrew word always used to represent mankind, humanity or the Adamic race in General or multiplicity. It is never used gender-specifically, as there are gender specific words for humans in hebrew, 'ish' (male), 'ishaw' (female). In the Greek as well the word for men is 'anthropos', which also refers to humanity in General or multiplicity, also distinct from the Greek words for male(aner) and female(guner)
Again I see no need for those standing on the other side to continue this argument until they can answer my teaser that solite ran away from, with a bolt, when he saw the light.
.
As a matter of fact, I believe all my replies on this thread to Solite3 have only proven without doubt that he misunderstood the proverb Paul used, taking it literally, thereby arriving at this doctrine of demons.

MuttleyLaff:
God bless you real good FinallyDead, for being an admirably ardent stickler for the ethos of 2 Timothy 2:15 but my brother JMAN05 here, whom I have the utmost respect and regards for, has decided to interpret the greek word "anthropos" from where we have the English word "anthropology" (i.e. the scientific study of humans, human behavior and societies in the past and present) to mean and/or to be something exclusively about males and/or men only, lol

I just love how our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ and the Apostles (e.g. Peter, Paul etcetera) usually backtrack, go down into scripture (i.e. the Old Testament) and then, either verbatim quote from them or paraphrase them. They demonstrate that the New Testament indeed, is in the Old Testament concealed, and so therefore go about revealing the Old Testament in the New Testament. Praise the Lord Alleluia. God is Good jor.

JMAN05:
It is true that Paul quoted Psalms 68:18. The gifts apparently referring to the men captured in the conquest of the promise Land.

I agree that anthropos could refer to humanity. In some cases this happens to be the case. However, this is not always the meaning of anthropos. For eg Matt 8:9, 9:6, 9:9, 9:33 and Eph 5:33, to mention a few, all have anthropos, but the reference is not to humans as a whole, but the male folk.

I believe that Eph 4:8,11 is referring to the men who take the lead in the congregation. Verses 12-13 lends credence to that view.

shadeyinka:
I didn't mean YOU were violating the logos. It was a general statement which meant that "women excercising authority" in the church violates the literal logos. But don't forget that the letters kill...

AntiChristian:
So you mean Jesus was a liar by saying sins against him will be forgiven but not that of the spirit?

Matthew 12:30-32:
"³⁰Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.
³¹And so I tell you, any sin and blasphemy can be forgiven. But blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
³²Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come."

Daejoyoung:
Hellfire is not what Jesus or the bible teaches, only in Revelation do you find lake of fire.

The bible teaches about a fire that destroys the enemy. Think about it for a second, how does a soul without nerves and receptors associated with the skin and brain feel pain and hot torments from a fire? This shows the fire is not literal burning but a form of anguish and torment in Jesus parables.

MuttleyLaff:
Hell or better put, Hades, actually is a Greek concept, the Jews have no concept of Hell or Hades
they have sheol, alright but the concept of Hell or Hades, is a Greek one.

Sheol is more of a proper and real biblical Israelite concept of where the dead are ''interned''

Sheol in an oversimplified or elementary manner can be grave or has been referred as grave

Grave/tomb/sepulchre sites are merely places of deposit for a corpse. Sheol is the realm of the dead or departed souls
- Souls do not linger in the air. Souls do not stay in limbo. Souls do not hang about. Souls do not make revisits

Until Jesus in the NT, Sheol in general, without necessarily distinguishing between righteous or unrighteous souls, has been the realm of the dead or abode of the dead

We have verses in OT (e.g. Psalm 9:17 etcetera) suggesting that the wicked go to Sheol but it was Jesus in the NT that brought things into perspective when He shared the hyperbolic illustration of Sheol with the story of the Rich Man being elsewhere and Abraham with the Poor Man being on a different side. Remember that, just like because you're telling a joke, it doesnt necessarily mean, the joke is devoid of some element of truth and reality so is the case with the parable of the rich man and poor man.

Sheol (i.e. the original Hebrew concept of afterlife) now has gray lines shared with Gehenna (i.e. the refuse dump in Jerusalem hyperbolically referred to by Jesus in Matthew 5:29 Matthew 18:9 and Mark 9:47) and Hell (i.e. a Greek mythology and Greek concept of afterlife) which arent really understood. The etymology of afterlife from a Jewish concept (i.e. Sheol, with 2 sections) has changed over time and Sheol, since, has being interchangeably replaced with Gehenna and Hell/Hades

Reiterating, hell which has become synonymous with Hades, is neither Hebrew or Greek in origin

Sheol is, what you'll find in the original Hebrew text for any word for Hell. In other places, Hades or Hell was the Greek substitution for the part of Sheol where the Rich man is from the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus

As a matter of fact, Hell, actually finds it roots in the classic Greek mythology, Hades, where Hades interestingly and actually, was the ancient Greek god of the underworld. This god's name (i.e. Hades) later turned to mean the place or abode of the dead, which actually is exactly what Sheol is, what is signifies or represents.

Talking about Gehenna, well it is a valley, a valley in Jerusalem, used as a dumping refuse site and so was used by Jesus to depict the Lake of fire (i.e. it is a place of destruction, as in, via incineration, a place for destroying things)

As earlier mentioned, Gehenna was the incinerating refuse dump in Jerusalem. Hades however, historically and originally is the name of a Greek god until it got turned to meaning the place or abode of the dead. It later got interchanged with hell, which is from a German word root. It was bible translators who were substituing the original Hebrew word Sheol (i.e. the part where the dead of the Rich man sort are), with Greek counterparts Hades/Hell that made hell stick with us today

Death is not a physical person but it will cease to exist because it will be destroyed when figuratively thrown into a physical lake of fire

MuttleyLaff:
"Then he will say also to those who are at his left,
'Depart from me, you cursed ones, into eternal fire, that which was prepared for The Devil and for his Angels."
- Matthew 25:41

"And if your hand should cause you to stumble, cut it off;
it is better for you to enter into life crippled,
than having two hands to go away into Gehenna, into the unquenchable fire."
- Mark 9:43

"But I will show you whom you should fear:
Fear the One who has authority, after the killing, to cast into Gehenna. Yes, I say to you, fear Him."
- Luke 12:5

The eternal fire, which some take as meaning hell, was not originally created for man, which explains why it's existence is not mentioned in any of the creation six days, but obviously it was created sometime after the Devil and his angels' rebellion and before the rebellion of Adam and Eve.

If you know, you know. Who no know, no go know

Hell not really a Jewish/Hebraic concept, but its more of a Greek mythology concept, and it is like a dumpster, landfill site and/or refuse tip site. Hell, has the sense of Gehenna, the garbage dump site for the biblical city of Jerusalem, where fires burned continually to destroy the garbage, abandoned and disused stuff.

Hell, in that light, is in fact, a destination place of the evil and/or morally wrong, like quick money making practice ritualist(s) etcetera for an example.

MuttleyLaff:
... Put on your seat belt on and hold tight, I sure hope you have a strong stomach for going on this ride and bumpy road with me, lol.

Cave.Adullam, I've just prayed and hope you be capable enough to patiently read a long post and obtain without difficulty every ounce of info this post is going to be fully charged with, lol. Mind you, I might have to split the post into two parts, as I am guessing if not it'll be a very long post and the gods of Nairaland wont take kindly to something like that, a very long post.

"For if God did not spare the angels having sinned, but having cast them down to Tartarus, in chains of gloomy darkness, delivered them, being kept for judgment;
- 2 Peter 2:4

For if God did not forgive the angels that sinned, but cast them down into the deepest abyss {Gr. Tartarus} and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;"
- 2 Peter 2:4

One of the various sources, that first century people back in biblical times then, got their fable tales and legend info from about angels having sexual intercourse with human beings etcetera was from writings like the Book of Enoch.

Now Cave.Adullam, first thing first, you need to have the understanding of is that the content of Jude 1:6, was originally first mentioned in one of the Petrine epistles. Fyi, Jude 1:6, actually was first mentioned by Peter in 2 Peter 2:4 to be precise and I took the liberty to copy it out, as can be seen above. Jude though copying from Peter's letter, both Peter and Jude, in their individual warning letters both paraphrase the Book of Enoch, I mean look at Enoch 10: 4-9 above, to be precise. Do you notice the similarities? Anyway, it is from Peter's letter, that Jude was taking lead from, when he wrote his version of warning letter to those same believing in fairy tales mytical make-believe stories about angels and taken to all that nonsense and ingredients rubbish thats in the accursed Book of Enoch

There are many telltale signs, that betrays the Book of Enoch and gives it away as a fanstatic speculative fiction book. Some of the telltale signs, I've already before mentioned on this thread, like for example when I earlier responded to one of the nijabazaar comments. The Book of Enoch, no doubt was authored by a Greek mythology influenced first century person with an over-imaginative mind.

As I was saying, the proof of this is in the use of the term "tartarus" which has origins from a Greek mythology influence

Cave.Adullam it'll surprise you to know that the word "tartarus" is only used once in the entire Bible. Why? It is because "tartarus" is a foreign concept to Jewish beliefs. Nobody, no other writer except for Peter, in 2 Peter 2:4 used the Greek mythology influenced "tartarus" word. The word appears only once in the entire New Testament and that was in a warning letter Peter sent to those people who were into Greek mythology and the beliefs in a Greek god named Hades.

Peter was paraphrasing the Book of Enoch when he used the term "tartarus" i[b]n the content of 2 Peter 2:4, and this he did that way because he knew those reading his warning letter are in tune with the[/b] "the Book of Enoch" and will recognise where from, he paraphrased in his warning letter.

Cave.Adullam, lets break down a bit further this word "tartarus" shenanigan, erhn? As I've earlier said, the concept of Tartarus has no history or place in the Jewish belief, it is a concept that has links with ancient Greek mythology. Look at the reproduced quote of mine above, from another thread, talking about Hades etcetera.

Well fyi Cave.Adullam, according to ancient Greek mythology, Tartarus, is one of the realms within Hades. It is situated lower than even Hades (i.e. the deepest abyss of Hades), its the place of the dead, and seen to be a horrible pit of torment in the afterlife, populated by ferocious monsters and the worst of criminals.

Jude was taking cue from Peter, who first paraphrased from the Book of Enoch, as I have earlier advanced. They, as in, both Jude and Peter, used a foreign ideology not anywhere known in scripture, meaning not found in the Bible or in an average Yahweh believing Jewish mind set, but is in books, like the Book of Enoch, well-known to reprobates who would believe in something ludicrous as angels, indulging in sexual relationships with female human beings. Jude or Peter were not in their letters teaching that angels have reproductive plumbing to give seminal fluids to earthly women that will impregnate them, but were using the Book of Enoch as a reference point to warn those unprincipled in their wacko beliefs to stop slandering angels and falsely accusing angels of what they never done. The book of Enoch listed at least, 200 fallen angels, as leaders who vacated their habitation. Go read each one of the Bible verses contextually and read slowly and loudly now to see how Jude and Peter laid into these people, cast aspersions on them and their figment of imagination Cave.Adullam, lol.

Well thats what I thought too, that shouldnt this earth be free from demons and evil spirits if they are already slammed up, so Cave.Adullam, shouldnt we be asking the impostor fake Enoch who wrote that accursed fantasy book of Enoch about this erhn lol?. It is not the first time the impostor fake Enoch has contradicted himself, shot full of holes and tied himself up in a knot with deviant, outlandish, preposterous and freakish storylines.

Emphatic yes, they are also male descendants from the lineage of Seth.

As a matter of fact Cave.Adullam, the sons of God, spoken of in Job 1:6, Job 2:1 and Job 38:7, plus even Genesis 6:2 and 6:4, lol, are male descendants from the lineage of Seth, originated from Adam, the first acknowledged and kofam, son of God, lol.

kkins25:
That guys post is mostly 95% bible verses..

oaroloye:
MISHIGAS!
Wrong.

okosunehis:
"Blow grammar"? I wish I could say that of myself!...LOL

I don't really know what your grouse is with John 3:16 and its NIV and NLT rendition. Maybe you can explain in your response. So, I am sharing some of the regular sources I use when trying to understand scripture. The focus is on the Greek word "monogenes" which is translated as "only begotten" in KJV. It also appears in 8 other verses of the Bible.

NB: Maybe you got me wrong. My favorite translation of the Bible is actually KJV, but no version is free of errors because no translator is free of some level of bias. Therefore, I try not to get stuck with one or even two versions; I just compare and contrast as much available versions as possible.

=========
JOHN 3:16
---------
NIV - For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,...

NLT - For this is how God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son,...

ESV - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son,...

KJV - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,...


HEBREWS 11:17
-------------

NIV - ... He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son,

NLT - ... Abraham, who had received God’s promises, was ready to sacrifice his only son, Isaac,

ESV - ... and he who had received the promises was in the act of offering up his only son,

KJV - ... and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

===========
Monogenēs
===========

From Wikipedia
--------------

Monogenes has two primary definitions, "pertaining to being the only one of its kind within a specific relationship" and "pertaining to being the only one of its kind or class, unique in kind". Thus monogenēs (μονογενής) may be used both as an adjective monogenēs pais, meaning unique and special. Its Greek meaning is often applied to mean "one of a kind, one and only". Monogenēs may be used as an adjective. For example, monogenēs pais means only child, only legitimate child or special child. Monogenēs may also be used on its own as a noun. For example, o monogenēs means "the only one", or "the only legitimate child".

The word is used in Hebrews 11:17-19 to describe Isaac, the son of Abraham. However, Isaac was not the only-begotten son of Abraham, but was the chosen, having special virtue. Thus Isaac was "the only legitimate child" of Abraham. That is, Isaac was the only son of Abraham that God acknowledged as the legitimate son of the covenant. It does not mean that Isaac was not literally "begotten" of Abraham, for he indeed was, but that he alone was acknowledged as the son that God had promised.


From Bible Study Tools
- https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/monogenes.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon

Strong's Number: 3439
Phonetic Spelling: mon-og-en-ace'
Parts of Speech: Adjective
Definition: single of its kind, only
- used of only sons or daughters (viewed in relation to their parents)
- used of Christ, denotes the only begotten son of God

NAS Word Usage - Total: 9 (only 3, only begotten 6)

MuttleyLaff:
"Jesus said to them,
“If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God;
nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me."
- John 8:42

"Exerchomai" is the Greek original word translated as "proceeded forth". By definition, it means, to go or come out of, with mention of the place out of which one goes, or of the point from which one departs. John 8:42 above, makes no mistake, where from Jesus proceeded forth and came from.

blueAgent & okosunehis, Jesus Christ is God and even god sef, just as I've earlier said and especially if that's how or a way Hairyrapunzel understands to put it.

No, I am not blueAgent & okosunehis, implying that Jesus and God are the same entity, but I am emphatically saying that Jesus and God are the same entity.

blueAgent & okosunehis, listen and watch this. I put on different attire colours to reflect my mood and image I am trying to project across. I could put on a red dress to make a statement that I am fiery, vibrant and lively. The colours are not me, they are images reflecting certain aspects of me. It's the same with God, the maleness and femaleness is not God, they are just constructs made in the image of God. God really isnt male nor female

We all know what kind of image one is projecting when wearing black colours, it could be for mourning or for trying to look sexy

The "the only begotten" phrase, means the only person uniquely gotten this way. The phrase has nothing to do with God biologically giving birth to Jesus, as a mother, like women do.

blueAgent & okosunehis, God is formless. God is a Spirit, and so has no form. God however does have masculine and feminine distinctive personalities plus characteristics associated with man and woman

Before either of youse step and slip on my "God is formless" banana skin comment, let me make myself clearer with the comment, by adding to it, that God is shapeless and formless like water. When you pour water in a cup, it becomes the cup. When you pour water in a bottle, it becomes the bottle. When you pour water in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. When you pour water into a drum, it becomes the drum of water. That is why when Moses asked God who should he say sent him, if asked by the Israelites, God said to him, say, I AM I AM sent you.

I AM I AM, in that narrative, means I shall be that I shall be, also means whatever it is necessary for God to be, that, God will be. God willl be a pillar of cloud in the day and become a pillar of fire to give them light at night. God is formless, yet God can take on any form. I know it sounds like an oxymoron thing to say it that way, but God, though truly is formless, can manifest Himself in any form, just as in that Nebucadnezzer fiery furnace and etcetera

MuttleyLaff:
Think of God, this way, H₂0, sent itself into the world. H₂0 caused and allowed itself to be visible as solid ice.

Christ cannot share the same body with God the Father, because God is formless. God has no clear definite shape or size. Jesus Christ is the product of God projecting Himself as a human being in the person of Jesus Christ on earth. Jesus Christ is the visible image of the invisible God

Though Jesus was God, He did not think of equality with God, as something to cling to.
Instead, He gave up his divine privileges. He took the humble position of a servant and was born as a human being, and so God appeared on earth, in human form, as in, the person of Jesus Christ, His Son

blueAgent & okosunehis, God can send Himself, did send Himself to earth, in the form of Jesus Christ. God simultaneously can be in more than one place at a time (i.e. God can be in Heaven and on earth, at the same time) Note that, Jesus didnt correct people that addressed Him as God, for example, where and when said: "My Lord, My God" to Him.

Its often said, if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself. Something to be done right is exactly what it's all about and so what God did. This is a matter of the classsic diy aka Do-It-Yourself.

God looked for someone who could build walls or looked for someone to stand in the breach in His presence on behalf of the world so that it won't be destroyed, but He found no one and so God is lumbered with, doing a classic Do-It-Yourself by sending Himself to carry out the redemptive work.

This will explain what the bible said and/or is saying about "begotten" The word translated as "begotten", i[b]s the greek word[/b] "monogene." "Monogene", means, one and only or better still, one of a kind

Now the word "monogene", is a combination of the root words: "mono" (one or only) and "genos" (of a class or kind) hence "begotten", in the context, or "monogene" in the context means "the only of its kind"

Now, "monogene" occurred also, when similarly used over Isaac, and that is where and when Isaac was referred to, as only son, even when Abraham already had an older son, Ishmael

Isaac was unique, was one and only or one of a kind son. Unique in the sense that, an impotent man and menopaused woman had a child, the promised son, Isaac (i.e. child in a class of its own, this miracle never again has been repeated)

To just clear each other, "begotten" in the Jesus' context, isn’t about procreation or some fantasied sexual intercourse

Jesus, is the last Adam, and second man. The first man Adam became a living soul, whereas, Jesus, the last Adam, became a life-giving spirit

The first man, Adam, is of the earth, earthy, came from earth; while the second man, Jesus Christ is from heaven, came from heaven. Alleluia.

"And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge,
and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none
(i.e. I looked for someone who might rebuild the wall of righteousness that guards the land.
I searched for someone to stand in the gap in the wall so I wouldn’t have to destroy the land, but I found no one.)"
- Ezekiel 22:30

"He saw that there was no man—He was amazed that there was no one—to intercede;
so His own arm brought salvation, and His own righteousness sustained Him."
- Isaiah 59:16

"I was amazed to see that no one intervened to help the oppressed.
So I myself stepped in to save them with my strong arm, and my wrath sustained me
(i.e. I looked, but there was no one to help; I was shocked because there was no one offering support.
So my right arm accomplished deliverance or achieved salvation for me, my raging anger drove me on)"
- Isaiah 63:5

blueAgent & okosunehis, you must have quite a lot of times, heard the saying that "If you want something done right, do it yourself", well none, nobody, no angel out of the whole angelic hosts of heaven, nor no man out of the whole world wide, offered to accept the challenge to help man get returned back to man's original status before the fall, so God resorted to DIY

blueAgent & okosunehis, you know that Christ, means Saviour, right?. So if you do, how then do suppose God will be able to pull this off this God's redemptive work, if Christ isnt God and man, hmm? Give this some thought blueAgent & okosunehis

"Behold, I send My messenger, And he will prepare the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, Will suddenly come to His temple, Even the Messenger of the covenant, In whom you delight. Behold, He is coming,” Says the LORD of hosts."
Malachi 3:1

Of course, Jesus is an angel, Malachi 3:1 confirms Him being a Messenger. This is God sending Himself on an errand. Praise God. Alleluia.

oaroloye:
MISHIGAS!

solite3:
the issue is not about gifts but about female leadership in the church, not everyone with a spiritual gift is qualified to be a pastor. Paul stated the requirement to be a pastor. A female may have the gift of teaching or a prophetic gift, It doesnt make them to be pastors.
paul was not speaking in proverb.

1 Timothy 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
I have explained this verse before, paul did not say a woman would be saved by childbearing but in childbearing, he did not say that it is child bearing that saves a woman but rather in child bearing process she would be saved. To be saved means to be delivered,
One could be saved from anything, one could be saved from sickness, death, attacks and so on. Because you see what paul said as parable that is why you can not understand it. The key to understand what the woman is saved from is in the book of Genesis.
God pronounces birth pain upon the woman and the fact that the woman's desire will always be to her husband. This only applies to a married woman because only a married woman has a husband. It means a woman could find comfort and succour in her child after she has pass through the pain of child birth. She would be satisfied after she has seen her fruit which is the child.

MuttleyLaff:
You see, this is where and how someone like you shamelessly comes online to publicly show and display their ignorance, inadequacies, lack of lacked depth & aplomb..

If I should get hold on you in a corner to get you do an exegesis on Genesis 3:16, mind you exegesis and not eisegesis, you will crumble like a pack of stacked up cards.

What 1 Timothy 2:12 is all about is an infant and growing congregation, For this reason Apostle Paul, said for now he wouldnt permit women to teach, besides, everyone knows the cultural setting of Ephesus, how women take lead and prominent roles in their occultic sessions etcetra. Anyway, the beginning of the letter, started with teachingand/or preventing any introducing of false teaching etcetera, then it went on that basis of about now not permitting women to teach men, then it continued with women should not have authority over man by dominating them, mastering them usurping them, emasculate them by depriving them of their male role or identity. That's what its all about nah. There is a local parlance that says, even when its raining or we are crying, we still are able to see the road walked on now. Wetin nah

At the above underlined emboldened, as if I knew.

Just like I thought that you havent the foggiest clue, lol, look at you up there, turning Genesis 3:16 on its head, lol. Smh, bwoy, it goes deeper than that your ignorant "Till date I never see woman dey laugh as she dey born" remark.

BlueAngel444 and solite3, I am 10000% sure that you think and believe that the word "pain" in that Genesis 3:16 means physical child birthing pains, lol. Smh. If you know, you know. Who no know, no go know, lol. Bwahahaha ha.

BlueAngel444:
Deborah wasn't Israel's leader they had Barak, she was a prophetess. And won't it be wise to say Barak was God's general and it's God who instructed him to go to war

MuttleyLaff:
"⁴ Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth, was judging Israel at that time.
⁵ She used to sit under the palm of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in the hill country of Ephraim, and the people of Israel came up to her for judgment.
⁶ She sent and summoned Barak the son of Abinoam from Kedesh-naphtali and said to him,
“Has not the Lord, the God of Israel, commanded you,
‘Go, gather your men at Mount Tabor, taking 10,000 from the people of Naphtali and the people of Zebulun. "
- Judges 4:4-6

BlueAngel444, fyi, whether you like it or not, at that time Deborah was the female prophet of God and Israel's spiritual leader, while Barak was the military leader. Similar way Samuel was Israel was the prophet of God and spiritual leader, while king Saul and king David respecively were military leaders/monarchs.

It would have been unwise of Barak if he had not respected, accepted and appreciated Deborah's authority and think highly of her.
Deborah is not the only woman prophet in the Old Testament who authoritatively exercised their spiritual gift and of whom men didnt complain about it. As seen Judges 4:4-6 above, Barak, the general in the Israelite army, respected Deborahunquestionably , and followed her orders. Deborah didnt abuse her position/office and so Israel prospered under her leadership.

[quote author=BlueAngel444 post=86002389]Huldah and Rebecca only spoke what God told them, they weren't taking anyone's authority infact Deborah HELPED Barak
Huldah HELPED the king
Rebecca HELPED Jacob

BlueAngel444:
Infact just like Deborah this women played only one role and it all involved the lives of men who we're leaders and not the women themselves.

BlueAngel444:
If you can mention one woman that God called like he did the men, e.g as God not called you and anointed you for this assignment, to led his people or to speak and instruct his people.
NOT ONE WOMEN, will you ever read that God called this way not one

BlueAngel444:
When Angels visit this women Sarah, Samson's mother, Mary it was to give birth and raise a man that will be anointed and serve God.

This women knew and understood their roles as mothers.

BlueAngel444:
Slander God, Jesus said there is no sex in heaven

BlueAngel444:
Yes we are all a royal priesthood, you would have also quoted Revelations you o Lord have made us unto you kings and priests ba...

MuttleyLaff:
"But you are not like that, for you are a chosen people. You are royal priests, a holy nation, God’s very own possession. As a result, you can show others the goodness of God, for he called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light."
- 1 Peter 2:9

"He has made us a Kingdom of priests for God his Father. All glory and power to him forever and ever! Amen."
- Revelation 1:6

Every individual believer, regardless of gender/sex, has direct access to God and that without needing any ecclesiastical third party

BlueAngel444:
Now back to what I wrote God never said that a woman will be a priest. Infact the OT statements about priests, their marriage picking them etc very similar to Paul's writing of picking pastors.

BlueAngel444:
First off, direct access to God? Seriously, did you skip Lord Jesus oh what anyway try and study what it means to be a priest or pastor, if you understand that the OT is a shadow for the NT and a pattern of heaven.

BlueAngel444:
Anyway lemme skip somethings, priests also taught and read the law for the people to hear. They also blessed the people, like a father would

BlueAngel444:
What Deborah did I liken to what Huldah did for the king of Israel, what Rebecca did for Jacob (in getting Isaac's blessing)

BlueAngel444:
This still doesn't mean a WOMAN can be A PASTOR, which is the point of the thread.

Can a woman preach, be an evangelist, spread the gospel of course. But can she head in the church NO

BlueAngel444:
Maybe God is sexist as well abi

BlueAngel444:
And all the priests that served where male... Why was that

BlueAngel444:
Hope you know that is also a list of offices that includes HELPS as well
SO CAN'T GOD SAY NO, GO NO FURTHER, IN THE ACCEPT DON'T DO THIS.
IT IS CLEARLY STATED AND REPEATED IN SCRIPTURE WOMAN SHOULD NOT BE THIS
but you all will leave what is obvious and start searching for what isn't. The Pharisee mentality

MuttleyLaff:
"Now these are the gifts Christ gave to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers."
- Ephesians 4:11

Each one of you guys, i am 1000% its your wives who wears the trousers in your homes. You're just ceremonial heads of the family, because its your wives who really runs and makes most decisions for your families. You're a bunch of Pharisees and hypocrites, the lot of you solite3, BlueAngel444 and whoever else the caps fits. You all dont even know or properly understand what the meaning the Greek phrase "have authority over man" is smh

What is a pastor, a pastor afterall, is a shepherd and there are plenty shepherdess amock in the bible. Please stop already all this sexist and misogyny. If you arent comfortable with a woman pastor, then leave those comfortable with that.

Ephesians 4:11 above doesnt anywhere in it, ascribe gender, as a qualifier, for any of the gift(s) given there to the church.

CaveAdullam:
That was a finishing touch especially with that Psalms 68:18.
I think the argument is Finallydead except solite3 gives an answer to that question

JMAN05:
Verse 8 says he gave gifts unto men". The interlinear, word for word says "gave gifts to the men".

MuttleyLaff:
I am going to leave your comment like it is, and let others come to correct you and it or let you yourself, come to correct yourself about what "men" in Greek indeed and truly means, lol. Jokingly speak, maybe, if it was a woman who wrote that, perhaps, its "women' in place of "men" we would have seen and be reading, lol.

CaveAdullam:
You are just trying to twist 1 Corinthians 12:28 and Ephesians 4:11 to satisfy your opinion. Both passages are clear like daylight, and there is no need trying to upsurge a particular interpretation.

My points are already stated in my previous posts, repeating myself will be of no essence.

Thanks.

God bless.

BlueAngel444:
what did he twist

Finallydead:
This is to clarify Eph 4:8-11. Eph 4:8-11 is a quotation of Paul from Ps 68:18, and Paul never tried to change a single word of it. The actual interpretation of both the Hebrew and Greek texts correctly reads "...gave gifts of men...". In other words, the gifts he gave were those of the human race that were apostles, prophets.... You can confirm this on every possible bible exposition too. In the Hebrew, the word used for men is "Adam", a Hebrew word always used to represent mankind, humanity or the Adamic race in General or multiplicity. It is never used gender-specifically, as there are gender specific words for humans in hebrew, 'ish' (male), 'ishaw' (female). In the Greek as well the word for men is 'anthropos', which also refers to humanity in General or multiplicity, also distinct from the Greek words for male(aner) and female(guner)
Again I see no need for those standing on the other side to continue this argument until they can answer my teaser that solite ran away from, with a bolt, when he saw the light.
.
As a matter of fact, I believe all my replies on this thread to Solite3 have only proven without doubt that he misunderstood the proverb Paul used, taking it literally, thereby arriving at this doctrine of demons.

FOLYKAZE:
I know you too well my friend, and know what you are capable of doing. The mines you set are known to me, I need to take each steps smartly, cleverly and wisely.

FOLYKAZE:
Read what I wrote in my previous post

This is not about my belief. I may believe God has a blue face, it is my subjective viewpoint, not the fact. Our discussion should be grounded on facts from bible, not my viewpoint or belief.

FOLYKAZE:
I, sincerely do not want to know your subjective viewpoint or discuss what you believe or think. Simply draw out facts from the scripture.

FOLYKAZE:
Firstly, I stated in my previous post that, "Practically impossible to be here and there at the same time sir. In fact, there is no reference to the claim that He can be everywhere at the same time." I deduced the negative, rightly because I haven't confirm from the bible that God can simultaneously be in multiple places at the same time. Here, I am not disputing He has the ability. The bone of contention is if it is recorded in the bible that he had been in multiple places at the same time. If he had, provide evidences using bible as your support.

FOLYKAZE:
Secondly, I am not an advocate of Omni-epithets. It's superficial appellation that have very little or no atom of truth in it. Good example is Omni-benevolence which contravene the sadistic attitude of God toward the young man, who without his sin, sin of his parents and his past generation, was thrown into darkness by been blind, why would a benevolent being keep a young man blind from birth? Maybe he is sadistic

FOLYKAZE:
The Omni-epithets mean nothing to me sir.

FOLYKAZE:
Our main focus should be drawing facts about the nature of God and Jesus, if it were a singularity or tripartite.

FOLYKAZE:
What I know, and very sure of, is that God according to the Bible claimed that he is One, shares Authority with No one, or have anyone equal to Him. If you have contrary points, please present them sir.

JMAN05:
Verse 8 says he gave gifts unto men". The interlinear, word for word says "gave gifts to the men".

FOLYKAZE:
Ok

Sincerely, this question is vague because God descriptions include having Ultimate Power and Will to be whatever he so desire. Therefore, God, in this context Jehovah has the ability, power, means, know how and capacity to manifest himself. However, there is no reference in the bible that he concurrently lives as Jehovah and Jesus.

Practically impossible to be here and there at the same time sir. In fact, there is no reference to the claim that he can be everywhere at the same time.

Another vague question there sir. This is not about my belief. I may believe God has a blue face, it is my subjective viewpoint, not the fact. Our discussion should be grounded on facts from bible, not my viewpoint or belief.

However, I will address your question drawing references from the bible. God has physically projected himself to Abraham, Jacob and Moses. These are some of the people that saw him physically. So yes, it is a fact that he can physically manifest himself.

There is this mine in your question, "physically extend outwards from and/or beyond Himself"... Extend and beyond is depicting a separate picture, different entirely from presenting oneself physically, that is simultaneously maintaining both physical and spiritual status. If this is the case, God cannot do it, base on past records

JMAN05:
Thanks for remembering me. No doubt you are well meaning. However, I don't celebrate New year

AntiChristian:
This looks more like a movie of a supernatural being that can exist in two places at a time. If an entity is one then it is one. Three entities are three not one.
You are claiming God has three entities but each entities can exists separately!

God is capable of doing all things but somethings are not befitting for Him!
Like God slidding down the birth canal of one of His creation! And God dying!
I must be extremely dumb to believe this!

Kokoebapluse:
Cross rat I know you understand my point that Luke 23-38 did not call Adam son of God, you are a shame to Christianity for calling Adam a son of god, look here even Jesus is not son of god, because luke 3:23-38 is not word of God or word of Jesus but word of Luke in his own imagination. Bible is a scam.

FOLYKAZE:
I will only fast rope on the X spot. You have made a statement but you need to be more definite with your words. Like many Trinitarians, I accept Godhood is one but there are different character in the triangle. This is more like the Presidency. The next problem is how we define Oneness and what constitute oneness.

A good shot from Gen 2:24 and Matt 19:4-6 define union of a man and a woman as oneness.

If I were to fire more shots, John 17:20-22 is the best projectile because it explains that believers are one.

What does this oneness mean? Marriage and or brotherhood. And what constitute this oneness, it is different actors and characters.

Addressing your question, God could take the form of Man. And that implies that he wouldn't be on his throne at the moment he is on Earth. Looking at Heb 9:14, that verse stated that Jesus sacrificed himself to God. This tells that Jesus who offered himself is an entity and God who accepted the sacrifice is a separate entity. The logic of sacrifice is one gives and another receives. Unless you Trinitarians want to tell us that God killed himself to appeal himself, the sacrifice of Jesus dictates that more than one actor is involved.

You know me too well that I can't accept statement from you without supporting Bible quotation. Please show me the verse from the bible that said Jesus is Jehovah.

I wouldn't accept Adonai and Lord game as found in Matt 22:44. I want you to direct me to where Bible said Jesus is Jehovah.

Yes, I know Godhood doesn't operate like Aso Rock. In Aso Villa, there is some of Democracy unlike Autocracy form of Government practiced in Heaven. And one indisputable fact about the heaven Government is that there are subordinates, councils and hierarchies. These subordinates are Angels and Holy Spirits who run errands. The Elders and Queens of heaven form hierarchies. And the Gods (children of El) form the Government. We also have the oppositions. In all these, there are more than one personalities.

What I seem not fathomable is how you accepted God has higher authority over his subjects (Holy Spirit) and can send them at will anywhere; but sees same subject as equal in authority as God.

Jesus even declared in John 14:28 that God is greater than him.

Are these not enough to make you see through that Trinity is a set of three.

That reminds me. Trinity is from the word Trinita (latin) which mean three-ness or property of occurring three at once. In Greek, trinity is triado which mean a set of three.

From the definition of the word, bible and argument in support, doesn't this clearly mean Jesus and God are different personalities in one Godhood?

Lol.

You are saying and want me to agree that God is one. Ain't you the same person that said God is three?

Does this definition applies to Jesus and Holy Spirit. If your answer is yes, explain to me in your own understandings how Holy spirit which you claimed is God is an Uncreated living, intelligent, omnipresent, self-existing, infinite being.

And just in case your answer is no, explain why you are dancing all around.

Kindly explain how Jesus fits in here sir.

Back this statement up with bible verses.

Unless you are playing some hanky panky game with me, you should have known that God or Lord can apply to anyone or anything. It is about perception. For example, Judges were referred to as God in Exo 22:28. Infact, God himself called Judges who are human 'God'. The word is ambiguous and not designated for a singularity. This is why what you supposedly see as a God must have a name. A name is specific and definite. I believe this God you are talking about is Jehovah. If that is his name, Thomas did not call Jesus by the name 'Jehovah'. He simply call him God because the word applies to Jesus and every other things one perceive having authority.
I will appreciate if you can help me with verse where Jesus is called Jehovah.

And please I can see the God/god game, it doesn't worth it (i believe you can do better than that).

Isnt this the God that had galvanized and cruised the Earth as human according to Gen 3:8 and Gen 18:1-5. Is this not the God that physically fought with Jacob Gen 32?. And in heaven, he was seen sitting on a throne. Formless on a throne?

If I still understand my bible very well. There is a particular verse where God wondered who is it will go down and deliver mankind. According to the story, Jesus indicated he will go down, left his crown in his throne and asked God to send him. And God sent him.

The story reveals that Jesus and God are different entities. But here my friend is telling me Jesus a slice of God. Hilarious!

At the emboldened. Jesus is God, no dispute. The line of argument is if jesus is Jehovah. You haven't show us how he is.

It is confusing when you use the word 'God' instead of the name of God you are referring to.

It is also undisputable, there can never be anyone like Jehovah. But wait, is Jehovah same as the Most High who appeared to Melchizedek. Remember Jehovah only appeared to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and prolly Moses?

Oh well, your proposition support my claim that Jesus isn't same person as Jehovah. You are the one telling us they are same personality.