₦airaland Forum

otem4eartum:
Your claims are false

Try saying ''your claims are false'' again

otem4eartum:
Those people murdered are children playing on the field

How you managed to read ''murder'' into that narrative wont cease to amaze me

otem4eartum:
And even if they were young men in the temple

These are the generations of Jacob. Joseph, being seventeen years old,
was feeding the flock with his brethren; and the lad was with the sons of Bilhah,
and with the sons of Zilpah, his father's wives: and Joseph brought unto his father their evil report.
- Genesis 37:2 KJV

The hebrew word used in the Elisha narrative is ''naar'',
As in the original text, it is the same word seen in Genesis 37:2 above, used for a 17 years old Joseph

In the Bible, ''naar'' means young man, servant or attendant a lot more than it means child or children

Talking about temple, Bethel as a matter of truth, was a hotbed due to the sins of Jeroboam
(i.e. legacy of King Jeroboam I setting up the worshipping of golden calves, one in Dan, the other in Bethel),
and so, the young men were attendants at the Bethel temple

otem4eartum:
what is the justification for murder

It was a face-off between good and evil
The battle lines were drawn by the young men prepared to fight and who were bent on stopping Elisha coming to Bethel
Breaking up the group of young men is the justification, no, not for murder,
There was no murder rather it was recorded as a SPLIT.
The group of energised and frenzied young men were split up
The group of young men's survival instincts kicked in making them do a helter-skelter dash to safety

otem4eartum:
According to the DOCTUFOS OF TRUTH, this is how it all happened:

Except for just you, a born fabulist, I doubt this your DOCTUFOS OF TRUTH strange theology has a following
With it, you seems to take unhealthy pleasure in inventing crooked accounts
and go to extra-ordinary lengths to elaborately type out dishonest stories

No offense but is this your DOCTUFOS OF TRUTH some kind of perverse joke?

GoodMuyis:
Laugh in MuttleyLaff
Finish Him.... gan gan gan

Babylity

Kikikikikiki

matrix600:
My favorite villains, Elijah and Elisha. The duo were unbelievable.
They command death upon people they dislike with a straight face, they don't blink.

Seun:
They are on my list, too.
One of them made God send a bear to brutally kill 42 children for calling him a baldie.

AccidentalGenius:
those 42 children might have been worshiping him too.

Are people not bothered to properly read or study the Bible anymore?

Honestly wasnt going to be bothered commenting
but the sin of being silent over Seun's misunderstanding & misinterpretation of the face-off between Elisha and those 42 youths,
who incidentally were temple servant young men and not children
would have been more serious than whatever evil actions were carried out
or whatever evil motives were harbored by the various so called or latter to be mentioned villains

Records to be set straight are as follows:
#1) It werent 42 children rather it were 42 young men,
and they were youths doubling up as temple servants where golden calves were worshipped in Bethel.
#2) Elisha was not a baldie, he for the obvious reason shaved his hair off, but was mockingly called baldie,
just like when someone's called ''adanri'' after sporting head skin-cut
#3) It wasn't a bear, rather, there were two she-bears
#4) The bears did not brutally kill anybody rather what happened is that, the bears split up the group of young men
If bears did brutally kill anyone talkless 42, dont you think there will be a strong protest or strong objection from their families?
Dont you think there would be a recorded reprisal
or dont you think that the people of Bethel will launch a public outcry, if the bears really did kill the 42 ''children''?
#5) Please unhide my post: https://www.nairaland.com/3491827/did-jesus-speak-tongues#51524598

adeniyitheprof:
The Bible offers no evidence that Jesus spoke in tongues

Correct, Jesus didnt speak in any of those tongues uttered post-Pentecost
besides Jesus didnt have to anyway,
as those particular ''speaking in tongues'' exercise were left to be done and carried out by ''them that believe'' (i.e. Mark 16:17)

The entire prophecy in Mark 16:17-18 has already being fulfilled, except for the ''drink any deadly poison'' specified condition
The specified IF statement, found in the Mark 16:18 conditional prophecy wasnt true and so wont run during the Mark 16:17-18 prophecy flow execution

Apart from other executors of the prophecy, Paul in Acts 19:1-7, fulfilled the Mark 16:17-18 prophecy
Paul in Acts 28:3 -5 also fulfilled one part of the Mark 16:17-18 prophecy when he shrugged off a snake he picked up
The other part not fulfilled is the ''if drink any deadly poison'' ''it will not harm''

If during or after the snake pick up, Paul had drank the snake's poison, the same ''it will not harm'' outcome would have still panned out
Paul wasn't bitten by the snake, so guess no need for ''if drink any deadly poison'' to come into play (i.e. no need to use the IF condition)
Win win situation for ''the snake pick up'' and ''if drink any deadly poison'' crew

adeniyitheprof:
Many today see “tongues” as some sort of unintelligible, supernatural form of speech.

Correct, ''speaking in tongues'' or ''speak with other tongues'' as done in the New Testament chapters, IS NOT THE SAME AS what is widespread and generally uttered today

adeniyitheprof:
Biblically, the gift of speaking in tongues occurs when someone speaks a language he does not know in order to edify someone who does speak that language ( 1 Corinthians 14:6 )

Not correct, the gift of speaking in tongues has nothing to do with edifying no bagga.
Also 1 Corinthians 14:6 isnt suggesting speaking a language you dont know in order to edify someone who does speak that language

Pre-1 Corinthians 14:6 and post-1 Corinthians 14:6 entails a comparison of tongues and prophecy
Prophecy won the day,
it got the edge over tongues because as far as Paul was concerned, prophecy builds up and enriches the lives of the believers
whereas tongues, objectively, is used for the unbelieving and/or an unbeliever's persuasion
(i.e. tongues primarily is used to bring around the unbelieving and/or an unbeliever,
to win over the unbelieving and/or an unbeliever, to convince the unbelieving and/or an unbeliever)

There are only 3 instances of recorded speaking in tongues in the Bible,
after that we dont see or read of the disciples or Apostles willy nilly haphazardly or not, taking part in speaking in tongues activities
Nada about them recorded speaking in tongues privately or corporately, (i.e. in closets or in groups) after those three instances

adeniyitheprof:
If Christ were going to speak in tongues, it would have been logical for Him to do so at His baptism when “the Spirit descended on him like a dove” ( Mark 1:10 ). We know that, moments after Jesus’ baptism, the Father spoke from heaven in words that all could understand (verse 11), but we have no record of Jesus speaking in tongues on this or any other occasion.

LOL, good observation.
Correct, it would be premature for Jesus Christ to do any of languages out of the post Pentecost ''speak in tongues'' before the acme and culminating point of His mission or purpose.
Aramaic, was suffice, possiby maybe Hebrew and Greek too

Jesus Christ didnt speak any of languages out of/from the post Pentecost ''speak in tongues'',
He however in Mark 16:17, did leave the speaking in tongues exercises to be carried out by the ''them that believe''

adeniyitheprof:
Many advocates of today’s tongues movement assume that Jesus must have spoken in tongues

Correct, just not the imaginary or fabricated banded about at homes and gatherings.
Jesus preached, teached and concersed in Aramaic, that right there is speaking a tongue
Well if Jesus were to speak intelligible tongues, the likely languages He would have spoken, apart from the obvious Aramaic, would be Hebrew and Greek, these three because biblical recordings shows he had Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek audiences or listeners

adeniyitheprof:
To bolster their point, they point to passages such as Mark 7:34 , in which Jesus “He looked up to heaven . . . with a deep sigh,”
and Mark 8:12 , when Jesus “sighed deeply in his spirit” (ESV).
However, a sigh is not the same thing as the supernatural gift of tongues.
Anyone can sigh, for any number of reasons, but it is no proof of the Spirit’s power

When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her,
he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled,
- John 11:33

Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave.
It was a cave, and a stone lay upon it.
- John 11:38

You should have used John 11:33 and John 11:38 instead of Mark 7:34 and Mark 8:12,
as John 11:33 is the closest you will get of Jesus speaking in an unintelligible sound,
and that's if looking for what to match with the unintelligible and meaningless stuff being practised in christians'
and most supposedly believers' gatherings

I have these very strange and difficult to understand emotions with goosebumps each time I read John 11:33 and John 11:38
Its like am in the midst, reliving the moment in John 11:33 and John 11:38 all over again along with Jesus

adeniyitheprof:
We have record of Jesus speaking in Aramaic, the commonest language spoken in Israel at that time (see Mark 5:41 and Acts 26:14 ). Most likely, He was also conversant in Hebrew and Greek, since both of those languages were used as well. But whether or not Jesus ever spoke with supernatural power in another language, the Bible does not say

Absolutely correct coupled with acute observations

One is not in the camp, that subscribes to the notion that speaking in tongues has petered out
To believe, for believing, is the underlining theme and primary objective of speaking in tongues is used for.
Speaking in tongues is a sign, not for believers but for the unbelieving and/or an unbeliever

From the pilgrim Jews in the upper room ''returning'' home to participate in the Jewish Feast of Weeks aka the Day of Firstfruits or Pentecost as we know it
to Peter and the Jews present with when'' the door'' was flung open for Cornelius, a gentile
to the disciples at Ephesus familiar only with the baptism of John
unbelief is the common denominator, back to back, in the above three, the gift of speaking in tongues is deployed to neutralised

The gift of speaking in tongues is not a talisman,
nor is it something to be waved around as if it's a magic wand to make wishful things happen

If you one doesnt know what to pray for, dont how to pray or cant articulate, then groan or sigh
Most times groaning and sighing in the spirit are worth a thousand words and are more effective than utterred words
Jesus groaned in spirit, Jesus sighed.
The bible even tells that the Spirit helps us in our weakness
and that for we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.

So, praying in the Spirit, is praying in tune with the Spirit, it is not praying in tongues.
Praying in tongues, is not meant to be double dutch. You simply just pray in any human language.
Thats what praying in tongue is and means. Period

Praying in tongues, is praying in humanly understandable, meaningful or intelligible language(s)
and any notion trying to suggest that praying in tongues is about using a firewalled ''secret holy language'' or ''heavenly language'' channelled through a demilitarized zone to block off satan or throw satan off the prayer scent, is an evil inspiration from the pit of darkness and fantasy world

Furthermore in closing, the men and women of Samaria and Ethiopian eunuch did not speak in tongues.
Paul in 1 Corinthians 12:30, states: All do not speak with tongues, do they?

Also Paul in 1 Corinthians 14:5 states: I wish that all of you could speak in other languages (i.e. speak with tongues)
but especially that you could speak what God has revealed (i.e. one who prophesies)
The person who speaks what God has revealed (i.e. one who prophesies) is more important than the person who speaks in other languages (i.e. speak with tongues)
This is true unless he can interpret what he says to help the church grow.

In 1 Corinthians 14:22, Paul concludes: Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers, but for unbelievers.
Prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers.…

If Paul can state the above three, again weighing speaking in tongues against prophesying, then I humbly rest my case

Rossikki:
The modern Israelis are Jews by conversion, not by ethnicity. Their roots are in places like Poland, Austria, and Germany

The original Hebrews were chased away and dispersed over 2000 years ago. The final dispersal occurred around 50 BC with the Roman empire's rampages causing over a million Jews to flee into Africa. The Bantus are those Hebrews. Hausas are not Bantus. They are among the original Hamitic Africans. They were among the Canaanites of antiquity.

The recently deceased Israeli president Shimon Peres is one typical from Poland, he was on Polish ethnicity.

He was born and partly raised in Poland, he left Poland in his early teens, those from Germany are what are called the ashkenazi Jews

Absolutely correct about the original Jews being dispersed away and that was the purpose and necessity for speaking in tongues aka speaking in other languages. If was for their benefit due to the promise made to Abraham and his descendants

Jucol:
Hello,
Can someone explain Acts 2: 4- 12?
There is something about that scripture that raises a VERY Serious question.
Thanks.

KingEbukaNaija:
Hey bro , this should help

Muafrika2 , please tell me what you think

Remember harping about this especially based on unsound doctrine mistaken belief,
and submitting some indirect posts trying to get heads round ill-informed opinions formed about the ''speaking in tongues'' exercise today commonly practised in most believers' gathering
but met the headstrong and fierce resistance from the likes of holahmihdeh, JMG1 and GoodMuyis

Well, here is the deal, in Acts 2: 4- 12 narrative and the revelance of ''speaking in tongues'' in it...
It is in successfully answering all the below following questions,
as it makes the work, more or less done half done because an obvious truth will be getting undressed
and Jucol's ''something about that scripture that raises a VERY Serious question'' revealed

1) Do you accept that ''speaking in tongues'' or ''speak with other tongues'' as in the Bible IS NOT THE SAME AS what is widespread and generally accepted today to be?
2) Do you know why it was necessary that speaking with other tongues should occur when it occurred the X amount times in the Bible?
3) Do you know what was the primary objective, reason or goal for the X amount of time(s) that speaking with other tongues occurred in the Bible?
4) Do you know when speaking with other tongues occurred in the Bible, who it was aimed at or who it was meant for?
5a) Do you know, who or how many, on the day of Pentecost, spoke with other tongues? (i.e. give the number if not names or identities)
5b)What to your undestanding does ''speak with other tongues'' means?
5c) Do you know the number of tongues that were recorded spoken on the day of Pentecost? If YES, list them
6) Whatever nation they're in or wherever they might be, state what is expected of every adult male Israelite before the arrival of Pentecost?
These 6 will suffice for now, overload, need to be wary of information/question overload

LaClicKLaBenDin:
I was very impatient with him....But rattled? No!

Rattled because you became irritated with his comment because you werent patient enough to see where he is coming from, to see if or how he would land

LaClicKLaBenDin:
How can someone who claim to be a born again Christian and baptised, question the ministry of the Holy Spirit? Just how?

Its not the first time and wouldnt be the last, so for next time just remember that

LaClicKLaBenDin:
Did you see his reaction when I asked him if he was born again, and when I asked him to explain what he meant by "Liberal Christian"? Those reactions informed my impatience

What do you expect when you're playing the born again conundrum card with him
Even Nichodemus, a reputedly respected Jewish teacher faltered
and spoke hesitantly when ''born again'' aka ''born from above'' was dangled in his face

LaClicKLaBenDin:
This topic is a very sensitive one
and for someone who calls himself a believer to state such things and defend them,
it's quite discouraging to the weaker ones who will come across such....
This issue of reading the Bible without the help of the Holy Spirit is the major reason why people fall away or end up with strange doctrines

Would have been nicer,
if instead of barraging him with stance questions one after the other and finally washing hands off him with the ''Have a nice day, Sir''
you had assisted him to unlearn any ill-informed opinions he had about the Holy spirit not being useful in understanding the Bible et al

LaClicKLaBenDin:
How can we not depend on the Holy Spirit to understand the Bible, when even Jesus charged his disciples to tarry till the Holy Spirit comes, before witnessing?

In fact, the real Christian journey begins the day you're baptized in the Holy Ghost, because without the spirit of God, it is impossible to run this race

If he didnt know all these, now he knows
From Bezalel to Jesus, from to the disciples to all believers, back to back, the Holy Spirit is a necessity, an indispensable thing for all believers

LaClicKLaBenDin:
Maybe I need more patience..thanks for pointing that out

Nothing bro, no sweat, know you'll do the same pointing out, if shoe was on the other foot

Kalatium:
Where in the bible does it say the Holy spirit will help you understand the bible.

As for 1 Timothy 3:16—it is referring to the old testament(Hebrew bible) not the new testament (Paul never knew that one day we will read his letters as scriptures.

¹²“I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
¹³“But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative,
but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.
- John 16:12-13

"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name,
He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.
- John 14:26

Apart from the disciples, every believer too, have successive inflow of the Holy Spirit, which teaches them all things, understanding the Bible inclusive

Believers, like the disciples, are expected to be fishers of men.
and patience is really required to be a good fisherman
but LaClicKLaBenDin was blasting you with both barrels because he was impatient

It seems like a bad judgment, him being rattled by your comments and getting impatient too.

Gboyee4fun:
yeah bro, I really understand, my advice is just this, don't be lost in history because human being like us wrote them and nobody is perfect..but as a christian we get revelation in the history we read...that's where we really need Holy spirit.........that's just how the Apostles wrote their epistles....

Good advice plus good recommendation

Kalatium:
MY question is if the holy spirit inspired biblical authors
why are there discrepancies in the bible

Depends on what height and angle the biblical authors were viewing and looking from
The discrepancies are?

Gboyee4fun:
I get you, the problem of people is that they don't even understand Holy spirit or how He works, All the Authors have their own spirit and they write to us to learn from them not that they are actually perfect, if you read the four gospels very well, there are differences in their story but they all have the same target, the problem in Christianity is that many are lost in religion, Paul himself has his own spirit not that Holy spirit sit inside him that's why Jesus Christ is the only perfect example we look at....there are many things I cant type online......I will just advice you not to be deceive by any body even men of God, just allow the Holy spirit to make you understand something's that may seem challenges to you in the Bible.

I get him too, however all the authors have the same indwelled and inflowing Spirit in addition to their individual spirits
Bottom line, as Gboyee4fun had previously and continually being advising is to eagerly pursue or sought after having the Holy Spirit

¹¹Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
¹²Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
- Psalms 51:11-12

In Psalms 51:11 above, David knows the value being in God's presence and the importance of having or retaining ownership of the Holy Spirit

jcross19:
Bible is divided in two portions which are mortal written and holy spirit guided written

The bible is a book of divisions no doubt

jcross19:
The mortal written part of the bible is just human philosophy which we can be found in historical context of the bible, the rules and law of the israelites while the holy spirit guided written is the prophetic part of the bible and direct word from God through holy spirit which stand from genesis to revelation. Truly, as a christian we need to read, observe and meditate on our bible through it we will be free from mental slavery

Wish you subscribe to being called a nigger
as much as you readily, willingly and without any problem call believers christian

jcross19:
John 8 vs 32 says: you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.
If you doubt what am saying I can give you few bible verses from paul view that contradict the teaching of Jesus Christ.

Bring it on, share them, would love to read about the Bible verses from Paul view that contradicts the teachings of Jesus Christ

Talk2nanro:
oga we dont need your deceitful post, keep it to yourself

You're speaking for yourself. Right?

zico530:
Reading from John 5:14
Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee. Does it mean all those whose sins are forgiven and keep on sinning will have more penalty?

⁸Jesus told him, “Stand up, pick up your mat, and walk!”
⁹Instantly, the man was healed! He rolled up his sleeping mat and began walking! But this miracle happened on the Sabbath,
¹⁰so the Jewish leaders objected. They said to the man who was cured, “You can’t work on the Sabbath! The law doesn’t allow you to carry that sleeping mat!”
¹¹But he replied, “The man who healed me told me, ‘Pick up your mat and walk.’”
¹²“Who said such a thing as that?” they demanded.
¹³The man didn’t know, for Jesus had disappeared into the crowd.
¹⁴But afterward Jesus found him in the Temple and told him,
“Now you are well; so stop sinning, or something even worse may happen to you.”
- John 5:8-14

No, it doesn't in that sense, mean all those whose sins are forgiven and keep on sinning will have more penalty

It means, a particular habit, lifestyle, routine, practice, weakness, self-gratification etcetera, which was bad before becoming healed, sound or healthy again, could become something more serious or more unpleasant, if the particular habit, lifestyle, routine, practice, weakness, self-gratification etcetera is relaunched or reintroduced

As a matter of fact and truth, the study of the word ''sin'' or ''sinning'' actually means ''missing the target mark''
It can mean ''missing the target mark'' as regards with God, fellow human being or with the right use of any other object
In John 5:14, it is used as a verb (i.e. as in, ''sin no more'' means ''stop doing'' the thing wrong'')

The healed crippled in John 5:14 and the woman caught in adultery rescued from getting stoned to death in John 8:11,
are the only two recorded people in the Bible Jesus tells to ''sin no more'' (i.e. stop the ''missing the target mark'')

John 5:14 had nothing to do with penalties or punishments but more to do with cause and effect
It's has to do with a combination of action and reaction(s)

John 5:14 is saying, after being made whole, the healed crippled man was warned not to ''sin'' aka ''miss the target mark'' to avoid the risk of a worse illness befalling or be visiting on him

For example, smoking causes the following effects:
infertility, stained or bad teeth, heart disease, coughing, anxiety & irritability, lung cancer, problems with pregnancy, problems for newborns, erectile dysfunction, blood cancer etcetera

Note, not all the effects in the above happens at the same time, but as the smoking habit continues or increases, other worse ailments or illness come unto the avid smoker.
It's bad enough having bad breath or coughing from being a smoker
but imagine worse things like cancer etcetera happening if the smoking habit persists

Am surprised you didnt find the pastors Jewish leaders' perplexity of Jesus' command that the man should pick up his mat and walk
and their ''You can’t work on the Sabbath! The law doesn’t allow you to carry that sleeping mat!'' baffled remark
inside the John 5:8-13 build up to John 5:14 intriguing

koladebrainiac:
Yea now
If they were ever serious they would have fixed it .
But they destroyed more than how they met it. Now they expect Fashola to fix it in 6years.

Didnt you read the news
There were contracts that were not properly signed,legal issues and money not being paid to previous contractors.
So how do u expect him to come n fix it in 6months?

''Be careful what you wish for, lest it come true'' boomeranged on Fashola
and now the ''there will be power in all homes in six-months if I was in charge - Fashola'' gimmick vote grabbing remark
has suddenly become enshrouded with hidden or unsuspecting situation(s) after he landed getting the power fixing job

koladebrainiac:
PDP had the chances to fix it in 6months.
They always promised us December then with huge budget allocation for power sector.
What did we have? They left the sector decayed,privatized it and continue corrupting the sector.
After they want Donald Trump abi one sango to come and fix it in 6months.

If they were serious,they would have fixed it .

PDP this, PDP that...
for crying out loud PDP have left the stage, how long more before all this crying over spilled milk will stop?

Fashola has been given the shoes to walk in and so should just put the money where his mouth is

He should take action to support those spurious statements and gimmick vote grabbing remarks he made during the campaigns,
like the ''there will be power in all homes in six-months if he was in charge''.

Enough of excuses, or enough of finger pointing. Put up or shut up. Just do it. Nike. Its all that's asked SMH

koladebrainiac:
Power problem that pdp has destroyed as a matter of fact.

PDP or APC is neither here or there

Fashola should have known that Naija was already blacking out before PDP
and that the ''Power Problem'' was destroyed even before PDP instead of shooting off the mouth with:
the ''there will be power in all homes in six-months if I was in charge'' - Fashola rescue gimmick remark
OR
the ''A Serious Government Will Fix Its Power Problems In 6months'' - Fashola's other gimmick remark to gain votes

BeeBeeOoh:
Fashola a.k.a Mr. Rocket Science is really trying to justify his incompetency & ineptitude..

A Serious Government Will Fix Its Power Problems In 6months - Fashola
Internet Never Forgets:
h t tp://newsrescue.com/there-will-be-power-in-all-homes-in-six-months-if-i-was-in-charge-fashola-rescued/

solpat:
I also read the lecture whatever.
That guy should do something fast about the electricity situation in the country,
if not Sango will strike him with 100,000 volts of lightening

jneutron4000:
what incompetency are you talking about?
Na him body or fluid for him body him go use generate power?

segunjowo:
Fashola knows how to talk to patronise people.
I haven't seen any tangible thing he has done so far...
he should quit talking and start fixing roads and electricity especially in mowe, ibafo, magboro axis.
That area lacks electricity to a very bad extent.

I've always had the impression Fashola is overrated and overhyped by his spin doctor(s)
Fashola's inability and failing to fix the ''Power Problems In 6months'' is the classic case of ''Take a moment to walk in my shoes, I bet you'll fall on the first step''

Bet he's realised that the Power Problem is tantamount to ''Omi po ju oka ni''

Pidgin2:
[size=5pt]And you heard a voice that says you should sacrifice your only son or daughter which you had to wait for many years to get? Will you do any of the following :

A) Go to a psychiatric hospital for check up

B) Rebuke it while planning to renounce your faith

C) Tell your priest or pastor to deliver you

D) Not doubt but obey

E) Do, A and B

When my priest asked this question many people said no way, they weren't going to sacrifice their only child for anything. Let's be sincere here, how many of us can really do what father Abraham did without knowing what would happen afterwards

For me, I will do (D). It will be hard but whatever. [/size]

²And Stephen declared:
“Brothers and fathers, listen to me!
The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham while he was still in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran,
³and told him, ‘Leave your country and your kindred and go to the land I will show you.’
⁴So Abraham left the land of the Chaldeans and settled in Haran.
After his father died, God brought him out of that place, into this land where you are now living...
- Acts 7:2-4

It wasn't Abraham's first, second or third time of hearing God's voice, this easily makes A, B, C or E candidates to be struck off
because Abraham had tried, tasted and tested God that much before as to ''Not doubt but obey''

Horus:
Since the slave-master is an enemy of the slave, if the slave prays to the same God as the master, he is praying to the God that enabled the slavemaster to enslave him.
Therefore, that God is the enemy of the slave or captive just as the slave-master is.

analice107:
See reasoning

God told Abraham that his descendants would be foreigners living in another country
and that the people there would make them slaves and mistreat them for 400 years
- Acts 7:6

There are slaves and slavemasters and there are slaves and slavemasters

Abi ooo, bible illiteracy, you've got to hand it to him nau

GoodMuyis:
Not every Christian is Born Again, Remember Nicodemus

What of Nicodemus?
What's to remember about Nicodemus?

GoodMuyis:
But if you are Born Again, dont be intimidated by the speaking in tongues, seek God for the Holy Ghost Baptism

chibenn, do you see (i.e. with an inward spiritual perception) the kingdom of God?
Do you see (i.e. with an inward spiritual perception) the presence and coming of the Kingdom of God?
Do you see (i.e. with an inward spiritual perception) the presence of the Kingdom of God in your neighbour?
Do you see (i.e. with an inward spiritual perception) God ruling in the hearts of some people around you?
Do you see (i.e. with an inward spiritual perception) the Kingdom of God within some people around you?

Jesus, said as a matter of fact that:
No one, can see the above asked OP, unless one, is from above or from a higher place (i.e. born again)

Seeing the above, experiencing the above, being aware or conscious of the above, sensing the above, is reality
Speaking in tongues of foreign nations or speaking in a different language of foreign but earthly nation is a gift

chibenn:
I was born and brought up in a Christian family,
although my parents have no position in the Church but my uncle was a pastor.
we all live in the same building in love till I grow up to the age of 25, and I give my life to Christ .
but something happened, when I took my baptism, we were 11 in number, and we all went to the stream,
we were eager for the holyghost baptism

For a 21st century believer, there is no need in going to a stream to be baptised by the Holy Spirit
(i.e. no need in going to a stream to be filled with the Holy Spirit)

chibenn:
but at that point my fellow members spoke in new tongues immediately they were baptised,

Spoke in meaningless gibberish and/or gobbledygook nonsensical manners by making speech sounds that are not actual words

chibenn:
and i was left without till date

Left without till date because you didnt succumb to be misled or surrender to be sheeplefied

chibenn:
and my pastor said
I NEED TO BE BORN AGAIN...

SMH at the pastor and his underlined remark
Tongues or speaking in a different language of a foreign but earthly nation is a sign to unbelievers, not a sign for or to believers

chibenn:
and my questions here is:
does it mean I am not born again

That's for you to suss out, whether you're born again or not, after mulling over the above-stated questions presented at the start.

kingcity:
The distance between Egypt and Israel is about 613km.
But it took Moses and the Israelites 40 years to complete their journey.
On average each day they walked only 43 metres, yes only 43 metres, almost half of what Usain Bolt would do in 5 seconds.
I just wish Moses was around to explain this laziness

When Pharaoh let the people go, God didn't lead them on the road through Philistine territory, although that was the shortest route.
God said, "If they see that they have to fight a war, they may change their minds and go back to Egypt."
-Exodus 13:17

²¹But as surely as I live, and as surely as the earth is filled with the Lord’s glory,
²²not one of these people will ever enter that land. They have all seen my glorious presence and the miraculous signs I performed both in Egypt and in the wilderness, but again and again they have tested me by refusing to listen to my voice.
²³They will never even see the land I swore to give their ancestors. None of those who have treated me with contempt will ever see it.
²⁴But my servant Caleb has a different attitude than the others have. He has remained loyal to me, so I will bring him into the land he explored. His descendants will possess their full share of that land.
²⁵Now turn around, and don’t go on toward the land where the Amalekites and Canaanites live. Tomorrow you must set out for the wilderness in the direction of the Red Sea.
²⁶Then the Lord said to Moses and Aaron,
²⁷“How long must I put up with this wicked community and its complaints about me? Yes, I have heard the complaints the Israelites are making against me.
²⁸Now tell them this: ‘As surely as I live, declares the Lord, I will do to you the very things I heard you say.
²⁹You will all drop dead in this wilderness!
Because you complained against me, every one of you who is twenty years old or older and was included in the registration will die.
³⁰You will not enter and occupy the land I swore to give you.
The only exceptions will be Caleb son of Jephunneh and Joshua son of Nun
- Numbers 14:21-30

What you need Moses for? There is no for Moses, when the explanations are there glaringly in the Bible

''The Scenic Route'' aka ''the Israelite Route'' because of Exodus 13:17,
the ''drop dead waiting game'' because Numbers 14:29-30,
plus the back and forth turn arounds, the three, altogether,
made a journey which normally shouldn't have taken more than 11 days become a 40 year period of travel

cc Dejiih001

aminulive:
Bishops Oyedepo's second daughter, Joy Oyedepo has landed in soup after recording a 'miracle' where she prayed and both her arms grew to equal length.
In the beginning part of the video, Joy appears to stretch both her arms and one seemed to be longer than the other. She then proceeds to pray to God asking him to heal a 'disc' in her back responsible for the 'inequality' in arm length.
Like sumerian magic, her right arm grows longer and equals her left arm in length!
She pulled down the video after receiving much criticism...with some saying the video was a farce and extremely fake.
Watch and judge for yourself.
h tt p ://politicsngr.com/video-oyedepos-daughter-records-live-miraclecauses-arms-grow/
cc : lalasticlala
h t t ps://youtu.be/s-P2w1B-rJo

Peacetemi:
Everyone should let the girl be, she's only showing off a trick she learnt from her pastorpreneur father

Perfecting the art of Trickery and Psychological Manipulation

It is true that the apple never falls far from the tree. SMH

Rossikk:
You cannot make up your own rules for the bible God. That he appeared as an ordinary human eating a meal in a tent suggests he could equally appear as a woman having sex in a hotel

I 've already agreed with you that God can appear as a man or as a woman because God is, I AM THAT I AM, I AM WHO I AM, I AM WHO I SHALL BE, I SHALL BE WHO I SHALL BE etcetera.
What more do you want?
You want me to go further along with you that God is or can be physically sex starved to want or need to have physical sex?
To what end or purpose will God need to have physical sex with humans? Biko, please explain

Rossikk:
There is nothing in the texts obviating this logic

¹That evening the two angels came to the entrance of the city of Sodom. Lot was sitting there, and when he saw them, he stood up to meet them. Then he welcomed them and bowed with his face to the ground.
²“My lords,” he said, “come to my home to wash your feet, and be my guests for the night. You may then get up early in the morning and be on your way again.”
“Oh no,” they replied. “We’ll just spend the night out here in the city square.”
³But Lot insisted, so at last they went home with him. Lot prepared a feast for them, complete with fresh bread made without yeast, and they ate.
⁴But before they retired for the night, all the men of Sodom, young and old, came from all over the city and surrounded the house.
⁵They shouted to Lot, “Where are the men who came to spend the night with you? Bring them out to us so we can have sex with them!”
⁶So Lot stepped outside to talk to them, shutting the door behind him.
⁷“Please, my brothers,” he begged, “don’t do such a wicked thing.
⁸Look, I have two virgin daughters. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do with them as you wish. But please, leave these men alone, for they are my guests and are under my protection.”
⁹“Stand back!” they shouted. “This fellow came to town as an outsider, and now he’s acting like our judge!
We’ll treat you far worse than those other men!” And they lunged toward Lot to break down the door.
¹⁰But the two angels reached out, pulled Lot into the house, and bolted the door.
¹¹Then they blinded all the men, young and old, who were at the door of the house, so they gave up trying to get inside.
- Genesis 19:1-11

The text that obviates this crazy logic of yours, is found in the above Genesis 19:1-11 narrative
The blindness in Genesis 19:11, is the first instalment price for trying to fvck with angels,
I shudder what the payback would have been if it was at God those rascals and misfits tried it with

Rossikk:
You also seem to be setting a limit on your God's abilities.
If he is 'God' surely he can do anything, including have sex as a human?
He after all, invented the very art of sex, so why should he be allergic to it?

God is not allergic to sex, God encourages having appropriate sexual relationships, afterall just as you said, God invented the very art of love making

When God appears as a man or as a woman, it is with or in a glorious body form
and that body form cannot and will not have sexual relationship with man
because it will be an aberration from God's command in Genesis 1:28

lepasharon:
because Yahweh is actually the snake God damballah and the serpent is his theme

Yahweh God said to the serpent,
"¹⁴Because you have done this, you are cursed above all livestock, and above every animal of the field.
On your belly you shall go, and you shall eat dust all the days of your life.
¹⁷Then to Adam He said,
"Because you have listened to the voice of your wife,
and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it';
Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life.
- Genesis 3:14, 17

And the great dragon was hurled down--the ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world.
He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.
- Revelation 12:9

You're woefully wrong, completely off target & deceived to believe that YHWH is the serpent god dambAllah, when Revelation 12:9 states otherwise

Rossikk:
But if God appeared as a man and ate a meal with someone in a tent,
he can equally appear as a woman and get f**cked in someone's tent, no?

Yes, God can appear as a man or as a woman because God is, I AM THAT I AM, I AM WHO I AM, I AM WHO I SHALL BE, I SHALL BE WHO I SHALL BE etcetera,
However the truth, fact and reality of this matter, is that, whatever gender God appears in,
any attempt of physical intimacy with God
or any other offensively presumptuous and inappropriate behaviour towards God will be counter met,
with the crossed-the-line perpetrator getting struck with swift & unequivocal blindness, period.

Buddy, God is love and doesnt do fcuks nor needs or wants anything like that
One needs to take cue from Psalm 119:103 below & desire to be physically intimate with the word of God instead of physically intimate with God

How sweet are thy words unto my taste!
yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth!
- Psalm 119:103 KJV

Mediator97:
[size=5pt]In Israel, there are 12 tribes which are >
1. REUBEN.
2. SIMEON.
3. JUDAH.
4. IS'SACHAR.
5. ZEB'ULUN.
6. DAN.
7. GAD.
8. BENJAMIN.
9. NAPHTALI.
10. ASHER.
11. EPHRAIM.
12. MANASSEH.[/size]
Out of these twelve tribes, why is Jesus referred with only one which is Judah

Jesus is referred with only the one, simply because by virtue of an accident of birth, Jesus is born out of the tribe of Judah and no other tribe

Genesis 49:8-10 proved to be prophetic

Mediator97:
Why Is Jesus Called "Lion Of The Tribe Of Judah?"

Apart from the evident and simple main reason above, there are quite a few other reasons:

1) In Genesis 37:26-28, Judah inadvertently protected and/so safeguarded the progenity of the Saviour
2) In Genesis 34:25 and Genesis 35:22, Reuben, Simeon and Levi, the firstborn, secondborn and thirdborn respectively for one grevious misconduct or the other, got disqualified to be worthy enough to have the Saviour as part of their lineage, so the mantle fell on the fourthborn, Judah

3)⁸Then Judah said to Israel his father,
“Send the boy along with me and we will go at once, so that we and you and our children may live and not die.
⁹I myself will guarantee his safety; you can hold me personally responsible for him.
If I do not bring him back to you and set him here before you, I will bear the blame before you all my life
- Genesis 43:8-9 NIV

In Genesis 43:8-9, Judah's act of standing surety for his brother, Benjamins safe return to Jacob

4)⁸"[Judah], your brothers will praise you. Your hand will be on the neck of your enemies. Your father's sons will bow down to you.
⁹Judah, you are a lion cub. You have come back from the kill, my son. He lies down and rests like a lion. He is like a lioness. Who dares to disturb him?
¹⁰The scepter will never depart from Judah, nor a ruler's staff from between his feet, until the One comes, who owns them both, and to him will belong the allegiance of nations.
- Genesis 49:8-10

In Genesis 49:8-10, Jacob was prophetically giving Judah rulership, majesty and royalty blessings
- Rulership is about monarchy, kingdom or kingship
- Bowing down is associated with paying tribute to anyone belonging or connected to a King
- Lions are majestic and are associated with supremacy, impressive beauty, strength and power

5)Therefore I will be like a lion to Ephraim, and like a young lion to the house of Judah.
I—even I—will tear them to pieces, and then I will leave. I will take them away, and there will be no rescue
- Hosea 5:14 ISV

The first living creature was like a lion,
the second was like a young bull,
the third had a face like a human,
and the fourth was like a flying eagle
- Revelation 4:7

But one of the twenty-four elders said to me,
"Stop weeping! Look, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the heir to David's throne, has won the victory.
He is worthy to open the scroll and its seven seals."
- Revelation 5:5

"The Israelites will put up their tents with each family under the flag that symbolizes its household.
They will put their tents around the tent of meeting, facing it
- Numbers 2:2

In accordance to Genesis 49:9, lion is what is put up on the flag of the tribe of Judah for Numbers 2:2
and in line with what's in Revelation 4:7, Ezekiel 1:10 or Ezekiel 10:14, it will be an Ox flag for tribe of Ephraim, Eagle flag for the tribe of Dan and Man flag for the tribe of Reuben

Hosea 5:14, Revelation 4:7, Revelation 5:5 etcetera are symbolisms, patterns & realities in heaven, expressing what God is like and is all about -
Lion representing for royalty,
Ox representing laborious endurance,
Man representing brotherly sympathy
and Eagle representing soaring majesty

Mediator97:
In Israel, there are 12 tribes which are >
1. REUBEN.
2. SIMEON.
3. JUDAH.
4. IS'SACHAR.
5. ZEB'ULUN.
6. DAN.
7. GAD.
8. BENJAMIN.
9. NAPHTALI.
10. ASHER.
11. EPHRAIM.
12. MANASSEH.

Out of these twelve tribes, why is Jesus referred with only one, which is Judah out of other Tribes?

OPs is a list of the tribes which inherited land in Israel

ebig21:
Oga op why did you skipped the tribe of the levites, aren't them also fathered by Abraham

He skipped the tribe of the Levites because this is a list of the tribes which inherited land in Israel

ebig21:
Remove Ephraim and Manessah. Put Levi and Joseph

Joseph (i.e. the House of Joseph) is represented by Ephraim and Manessah.
Ephraim and Manessah replaced the vacuum left by omitting Levi and Joseph and symbolic number 12 is maintained

All these are the twelve tribes of Israel,
and this is what their father said to them when he blessed them, giving each the blessing appropriate to him
- Genesis 49:28

According to Genesis 49:28, the list in Genesis 49:1-27, are of Jacob's 12 sons and are what made up the 12 tribes of Israel
(i.e. in order of birth: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph and Benjamin)
Mannasseh and Ephraim were joined to represent the House of Joseph aka tribe of Joseph

OPs is a list of the tribes which inherited land in Israel

Certitude:
the nigga doesn't know ephraim and manasseh are half tribe each

I doubt he doesnt know that

elipheleh:
No sir, Joseph was not blessed at all by his father. Jacob skipped Joseph from his WILL, instead he blessed Josephs two sons ephraim and manessah. That is the double portion blessing of Joseph the Bible talked about

¹⁵A man might have two wives and love one but not the other.
Both wives might have children, and the firstborn son might belong to the wife that the man doesn't love.
¹⁶When the day comes for the father to give his sons their inheritance,
he can't treat the son of the wife he loves as if that son were the firstborn.
This would show a total disregard for the real firstborn (the son of the wife he doesn't love).
¹⁷Instead, he must recognize the son of the wife he doesn't love as the firstborn.
He must give that son a double portion of whatever he owns.
That son is the very first son he had. The rights of the firstborn son are his
- Deuteronomy 21:15-17

The narrative in Deuteronomy 21:15-17 above wasnt adhered to because Reuben though being the firstborn of Jacob's first wife, Leah, whom Jacob didnt really love, he, Reuben forfeited that priviledge and lost the right to firstborn double portion blessing because of sleeping with Bilhah, one of his father's concubines

Reuben act of adultery caused the firstborn double portion birthright blessing to be transferred to Joseph, another firstborn.
Joseph being the firstborn of Jacob's second wife, Rachel, whom Jacob so loved that he actually had to work another extra seven years in order to be able to marry her

elipheleh:
FYI : Ephraim is present day USA and Manessah are present day Austrailia and Britain

Care to share where else, the other tribes are, in regards to the rest of the world?

jiggaz:
[size=5pt]Romans 4:5
But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,

What do you think righteousness is about? Something you
do or something you are? Right doing or right being ?
The Bible tells us that after Jesus’ sacrifice at the cross, God imputes righteousness not to those who strive to obey the law (Galatians 2:16), but to anyone who believes in His Son. Because Christ took our sins and gave us His righteousness (2 Corinthians 5:21), the moment we believe in Him, God treats us as righteous apart from our works or obedience.
Romans 4:5–8 This is new covenant righteousness—a righteousness that comes by faith and not works.

You are not righteous because of how morally upright you are. You are not righteous because you exercise self-control. You are not righteous because you read 10 chapters of the Bible daily. You are not righteous because you feel righteous. But you are the very righteousness of God in Christ solely because the sacrifice of Jesus made you so. When you believe this, your faith is accounted for righteousness.

And this is what God wants you to use your faith for. If you are righteous by your deeds, you don’t need faith. You also don’t need faith to know that you are sinful. But you need faith to believe and declare that you are the righteousness of God in Christ, in the midst of your struggles with temptation and sin.

For example, when you feel lousy because you have just shouted at your wife, God wants you to exercise your faith to see yourself as still righteous in the midst of that failure. This living revelation that you are still righteous will give you the strength to love your wife and reconcile things with her.

The devil may remind you of your foul temper and question your integrity: “How dare you call yourself righteous when you just did that!” Just ignore his lies and boldly declare, “I am not righteous because of what I have done or not done. I am righteous only because of the blood and finished work of Jesus at the cross!”

Thought For The Day

You are the very righteousness of God in Christ solely because the sacrifice of Jesus made you so.

w w w. josephprince.org/daily-grace/grace-inspirations/single/righteousness-is-not-right-doing-but-right-being/[/size]

Usually because of Joseph Prince's WoF predispositions, whenever I decide to partake in any of his message bowls, I cautiously and carefully eat the grains and without hesistation quickly spit OUT straws caught in between, however on this ocassion I subscribe wholeheartedly to this brilliant message article of his and fully endorse it.
Found no straw in the grains, Joseph Prince on this one, completely nailed it.

Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness
- Genesis 15:6

For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."
- Romans 4:3

So also, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness
- Galatians 3:6

And the Scripture was fulfilled that says,
"Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called a friend of God.
- James 2:23

As is noted in Genesis 15:6 etcetera, righteousness apparently is joined at the hip with ''believing the LORD'' or ''believing the word, report, etcetera of the LORD'' where ''believing the LORD'' or ''believing the word, report, etcetera of the LORD'' is synonymous with FAITH

Righteousness, can also have the same meaning as approval too,
where approval is gained from ''simultaneously doing the right thing, at the right time and still standing on God's right hand side''

I have singled him out so that he will direct his sons and their families to keep the way of the LORD by doing what is right and just.
Then I will do for Abraham all that I have promised."
- Genesis 18:19 NLT

The righteousness credited to Abraham in Genesis 15:6 etcetera, the righteousness enjoyed by Abraham is not the ultimate righteousness. It is not the supreme approval but the righteousness of God in Christ is

The righteousness of God in Christ is like a Seal of Approval stamped on all that believe in God.
It is a divine indication that all that believe in God, all that believe in every word of God are looked at as accepted and/or looked at favourably

The righteousness of God in Christ, is a ready to wear, off the shelf, off the peg, off the rack, ready-made ''God approval via Christ'' superimposed on every believer, so that God, ONLY & ALWAYS, sees the perfection of Christ in every believer, instead of seeing the believers' imperfections, shortcomings, weaknesses, limitations, failings etcetera

Every one that believes, has the ''Righteousness of God in Christ'', no limits, FREE credit, lodged in their account
''Righteousness of God in Christ'' is not earned, is not worked for but it is something given

Rossikk:
[size=4pt]Yahweh appears as a man to Abraham along with two angels, and even sits down To A Meal!!

Genesis 18:1-33

“And the LORD appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, as he sat at the door of his tent in the heat of the day. He lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, three men stood in front of him. When he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them, and bowed himself to the earth, and said, ‘My lord, if I have found favor in your sight, do not pass by your servant. Let a little water be brought, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree, while I fetch a morsel of bread, that you may refresh yourselves, and after that you may pass on--since you have come to your servant.' So they said, 'Do as you have said.'

And Abraham hastened into the tent to Sarah, and said, 'Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes.' And Abraham ran to the herd, and took a calf, tender and good, and gave it to the servant, who hastened to prepare it. Then he took curds, and milk, and the calf which he had prepared, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree while they ate. They said to him, 'Where is Sarah your wife?' And he said, 'She is in the tent.' The LORD said, 'I will surely return to you in the spring, and Sarah your wife shall have a son.' And Sarah was listening at the tent door behind him. Now Abraham and Sarah were old, advanced in age; it had ceased to be with Sarah after the manner of women. So Sarah laughed to herself, saying, 'After I have grown old, and my husband is old, shall I have pleasure?'

The LORD said to Abraham, 'Why did Sarah laugh, and say, "Shall I indeed bear a child, now that I am old?" Is anything too hard for the LORD? At the appointed time I will return to you, in the spring, and Sarah shall have a son.' But Sarah denied, saying, 'I did not laugh'; for she was afraid. He said, 'No, but you did laugh.' Then the men set out from there, and they looked toward Sodom; and Abraham went with them to set them on their way. The LORD said, ‘Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do, seeing that Abraham shall become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall bless themselves by him? No, for I have chosen him, that he may charge his children and his household after him to keep the way of the LORD by doing righteousness and justice; so that the LORD may bring to Abraham what he has promised him.'

Then the LORD said, 'Because the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is great and their sin is very grave, I will go down to see whether they have done altogether according to the outcry which has come to me; and if not, I will know.' So the men turned from there, and went toward Sodom; but Abraham still stood before the LORD. Then Abraham drew near, and said, 'Wilt thou indeed destroy the righteous with the wicked? Suppose there are fifty righteous within the city; wilt thou then destroy the place and not spare it for the fifty righteous who are in it? Far be it from thee to do such a thing, to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous fare as the wicked!

Far be that from thee! Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?' And the LORD said, 'If I find at Sodom fifty righteous in the city, I will spare the whole place for their sake.' Abraham answered, 'Behold, I have taken upon myself to speak to the Lord, I who am but dust and ashes. Suppose five of the fifty righteous are lacking? Wilt thou destroy the whole city for lack of five?' And he said, 'I will not destroy it if I find forty-five there.' Again he spoke to him, and said, 'Suppose forty are found there.' He answered, 'For the sake of forty I will not do it.' Then he said, 'Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak. Suppose thirty are found there.' He answered, 'I will not do it, if I find thirty there.' He said, 'Behold, I have taken upon myself to speak to the Lord. Suppose twenty are found there.' He answered, 'For the sake of twenty I will not destroy it.' Then he said, 'Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak again but this once. Suppose ten are found there.' He answered, 'For the sake of ten I will not destroy it.' And the LORD went his way, when he had finished speaking to Abraham; and Abraham returned to his place.” Genesis 18:1-33

Here we have Yahweh eating food as a man and having human feet that could be washed without ceasing to be God! That one of the three men was Yahweh in human appearance can be easily demonstrated by the fact that although the above citation says that the men headed towards Sodom Yahweh remained with Abraham and only left sometime afterwards. This means that we should expect to find that only two men showed up to Sodom at first since the third man, Yahweh, stood behind with Abraham.

Lo and behold this is precisely what we learn from the very next chapter!

“The two angels came to Sodom in the evening; and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them, and bowed himself with his face to the earth, and said, ‘My lords, turn aside, I pray you, to your servant's house and spend the night, and wash your feet; then you may rise up early and go on your way.’ They said, ‘No; we will spend the night in the street.' But he urged them strongly; so they turned aside to him and entered his house; and he made them a feast, and baked unleavened bread, and they ate. But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man, surrounded the house; and they called to Lot, ‘Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them.’” Genesis 19:1-5

Only two men initially showed up at Sodom, since the third man stayed behind to converse with Abraham. It is here that we discover that two of the men were angels. Thus, we have 'God' and two angels showing up as men!

h t tp://www.answering-islam.org/authors/shamoun/god_as_man.html[/size]

Rossikk:
Going by the above story, it is entirely possible that the last person you spoke to today was in fact..... God

Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it
- Hebrews 13:2
It is possible, such person could an angel(s) or God

Rossikk:
Perhaps a girl you are currently chasing, even nacking, is actually...God.

Reminds me of the CBS Network ''Joan of Arcadia'' TV series back in the day
Only exception, in this Rossikk comment, is that no man can ever nack God, whether God to be incognito or not.

jcross19:
in some of your explanations was based word to word interpretation
like where you quote that Jesus said suffer not the children to come to me , is the interpretation of that mathew11 vs 12 because the word suffer is there? Funny!!!!.

Nobody mentioned suffer not in any of the so far explanations on this thread
and if you think Jesus said suffer not the children, then the funny, the joke and the ugly is on you pal

jcross19:
you mean because the gate of heaven is narrow that means when going to heaven your baggages will be hitting the door edge of the gate right? Wow good understanding sir

You marvel, because you have been overlooking the epexegesis

Have you ever approached a narrow gate holding portmanteaus?
(e.g. holding two heavy suitcase in each hands, with extra two clasped under the armpits)

There are at least two choices, which are:
Put down the portmanteaus to easily go through the turnstile narrow gate
or hold on tightly to the baggges whilst you try squeezing, pushing, wriggling, do all that's necessary etcetera to force your way through the turnstile narrow gate

jcross19:
Have given you the direct interpretation of it mathew 23 vs 13

There is a very serious error in this reasoning and comment
You're joking with connecting OP's with Mathew 23 :13, aren't you?
I dont doubt you're a clever person but sorry, that direct interpretation plus connecting OP's with Mathew 23 :13 can't and/or shouldnt be taken seriously

jcross19:
If you are confused try to pray on that verse and HE will show you the meaning not quoting irrelevant verses

If you cant correctly quote what I wrote or cant correctly quote the gist of Matthew 19:14, Mark 10:14 or Luke 18:16, then you, more than anyone else, need prayer for confusion

jcross19:
I was once like that until my eyes was opened to know the actual meaning. Even some scholars failed in that verse

What does ''suffereth'' mean in Matthew Matthew 11:12
and who are ''the violent'' taking it by force in Matthew 11:12?

Also and this is for the second time asking you, what does ''biazo'' in Luke 16:16 & Matthew 11:12 mean?
Note that Luke 16:16 is the mirror version of Matthew 11:12

LadyAnn:
Permission to share on my watsapp debate group?

JMAN05:
So you need my number to add me? How can I get it across, I won't share that here.

LadyAnn:
No I do not Need your number Sir/Madame. Absolutely Not. I'm confused here. I nearly asked permission to quote your interpretation. Not you. You've got it completely wrong dear and I somewhat feel offended that you will even misconstrue my words/intention. I only, politely asked permission to use your (quote) which I found to be a clear and concise interpretation. Wow!

JMAN05:
Ok

What a comedy of errors
The ''need my number'' misunderstanding got me doubled up. Kikiki ki...

Remember Matthew 10:8 is instructive that freely it is received, freely it is to be given
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jcross19:
I have said it before that most christians interpret like that even biblehub you went to but the true meaning is what's happening in saudi arabia where Jesus name is banned publicly, crosss or bible is banned

This is typical of where, how and why the Kingdom of Heaven TOLERATES VIOLENCE, because it is in the face of adversity not peculiar to Saudi Arabia alone where Jesus name is banned publicly, cross or bible is banned, that one will have to be strong, force their faith through

jcross19:
Now check the words "suffered violent attack" does it mean pressing or forcing in? Huh but we christians we are to desperate give bible meaning to suit us

"suffered violent attack" means "TOLERATE STRONG ADVANCING" similar to Matthew 19:14 or Mark 10:14, where Jesus used the old KJV word ''suffer'' to the disciples about children
''Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God''
Suffer = Allow, Tolerate, Permit, Let be, etctera

The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
- Luke 16:16 KJV

“The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone forces his way into it.
- Luke 16:16 ESV

If it doesnt mean pressing or forcing in, then what does ''biazo'' in Luke 16:16 mean?
Note that Luke 16:16 is the mirror version of Matthew 11:12

Most information, invention, discovery, fashion etcetera out there is trying to deny the knowledge of God, and in order to rise above and be on top of them, you will need to or have to force your way through them all

You dont have to go all the way to Saudi Arabia to experience banning of the mention of the name Jesus or banning the cross, some household, families in Naija ban these and if disobeyed risk getting disowned or ostracised by fathers, mothers, siblings, other family members etcetera

jcross19:
don't misquote the word of God.

No misquoting but more of an inadvertent eisegesis from your end

jcross19:
I have given you the open meaning which is in mat23 vs 13. That's the simple meaning

Luke 16:16 is the mirror version of Matthew 11:12

jcross19:
Now you are eager to make heaven will you now attack the heaven

The kindgom of Heaven accepts us as we are, most of us come along with affliction baggages. If the gate to life aka The kindgom of Heaven is already narrow for an ordinary person, imagine what a challenge it will be for someone strandled with affliction baggages to get in, such will have to FORCE way through the narrow gate
It is not an attack on heaven but is the eager squeezing, wriggling, twisting and turning trying to FORCE their way in through the narrow gate

jcross19:
That verse is talking to those evil men that are blocking children of God to make heaven.

Matthew 23 :13 is talking to those evil men that are blocking children of God to make heaven but Matthew 11:12 and Luke 16:16 IS NOT talking to or talking about those evil men that are blocking children of God to make heaven.

jcross19:
Even spiritually kingdom of heaven never witness crowd rushing in that's why the trumpet has not been blown. Good news version will give you perfect meaning okay

Rushing is not the right word, but forcing is the right word
If surrounded at all fronts by, peer pressure, social pressure, social influence, increasingly moral and cultural decline, immoderateness, serious decline in biblical beliefs or values, then people (i.e. crowd) will need to push, force through obstacles such as these to enter the Kingdom of Heaven
The gospel, the good news, the glad tiding will suffocate, if people (i.e. crowd) dont force their minds to climb up the sides of the few obstacles aforementioned and rise above the to breathe in the fresh and life giving sweet smelling fragrance air of the gospel

jcross19:
This is my first interpretation of that verse quoted by op but that's not true[size=5pt] until I was led by the spirit of God. Before you understand that verse you have to understand the meaning of "kingdom of God","suffereth',"violence" and "violent" in that sentence. most christians interpreted this verse in that way which is not, because that verse is talking to the wicked people , now look at the verse from good news:mathew 11 vs 12; from the time john preached his message until this very day the kingdom of heaven has suffered VIOLENT attacks,and VIOLENT men try to seize it then check the verse mathew 23 vs 13 : but woe unto you , scribes,pharisees and hypocrites! For ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. That's the meaning of what jesus was trying to say in that verse of matthew 11 vs 12[/size]

Killing of john baptist, killing of jesus , the apostles, burning of bible and many evil atrocities against children of God by men who don't others to make heaven by placing stumbling block to the people who are thirsty for the water of life.

Doubts are like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. Your first interpretation was right

The violent are believers fighting against all odds to enter the Kingdom of Heaven

The Kingdom of Heaven permits this, allows this, lets this happen, welcomes this etcetera
Read more in the below following

Sarassin:
I don't quite agree with your interpretation, it is not exact. You are giving a modern interpretive analysis to a verse with a classical meaning

The explanation has no falsehood, it does not need to be modern or classical but only be truthful

Sarassin:
Matt11:12 presupposes the Jewish conviction that men could accelerate the coming of the Messianic times and even force it down immediately by certain actions, either of obedience or of disobedience to the commandments of God. An example can be found in Shab. 118b which states “the Messiah and the final redemption would come at once, if all Israel were to observe “two successive Sabbaths, nay one single Sabbath rightly as it ought to be kept”.

Such apparent violation of the Divine plans of Providence was not always considered a sin. We can observe the sayings in the Talmud, that ” God loves to be conquered by a sinner through repentance”.

The technical term used was "pressing against the Messianic Time," the equivalency of which is translated into the Evangelic expression "storm the kingdom" or "take it by force". This conviction was not without its own controversy. Contemporary Rabbi scholars of the day record that four generations had already perished, because they tried to invade the "Kingdom".

Of particular mention is the generation of Bar-Kokhba, the Pseudo-Messiah.

I rather you submit biblical verse than shoving front a Talmud extract etcetera that there is a Jewish conviction that men could accelerate the coming of the Messianic times and even force it down immediately by certain actions

Sarassin:
There’s no confusion if you leave the verse as it were and read it in its proper context.

He actually means KJV uses words like ''suffer'' or ''suffereth'' that have lost a particular meaning in modern day usage

Sarassin:
Jesus, attributes an over-zealousness to the Baptist and the violent ones. Yet he thinks that God does not disapprove at all of such men, who are " eaten up by the zeal for his house," and that indeed the Baptist and his followers' fervent repentance had somehow brought nearer the Kingdom. Therefore, because he prepares the Lord's way, instead of merely foretelling it, he is the greatest among mortals.

John was said to be ''greatest among mortals'' solely on the basis and fact that it was him given the great task of preparing the way for the Lord and foretelling it

Notice after Jesus made that remark, He immediately, added that, the least in the kingdom is greater that John the Baptist, then followed it with OP's Matthew 11:12 , with Luke 16:16 being a mirror version of Matthew 11:12

LadyAnn:
Thought this take was interesting. He mentions ISIS and fundamental Islamic groups

h t tps://youtu.be/VEvE-ubzEqg

Sarassin:
Interesting but I think he's far off the mark.

I second that he is miles off the mark too
He would have correctly explained it, if he or anyone else for that matter, was 2 Timothy 2:15 rightly dividing the word of truth with an Occam's razor.