hupernikao: You like suggesting the scriptures stand as my opinion. You will need to cross check things I say with the scriptures.
Scriptures should define responsibilities for you not grammar or English.
All you need to do is to obverse all through the scriptures this roles and see what they did primarily.
What was Moses primary role Sir? To prophesy or to teach/shepherd?
Why was John the Baptist called a prophet? What was his primary role as seen in the Bible Prophesy or teach?
What of Isaiah? Ezekiel?
What exactly do a prophet does primarily? To prophesy, foretell or to speak/teach people God's plan?
We shouldn't be taking our conclusion from common motives or English meaning. We must look into the scriptures. Those roles are well seen in the Bible.
When you have checked this well, you should come to this conclusion.
That primary role of
Prophet is teaching. Pastor is teaching Evangelist is teaching Apostle is teaching.
A ministry gift without a primary role of teaching isn't called of God. Take that to the bank.
Moses primary role was to deliver the Israelites from Egypt and lead them to the promised land.
Teaching was not his forte. Which was why he declined his calling with so many excuses.
Along the line God made a prophet, teacher, pastor (shepherd), evangelist and apostle out of him. He operated in all these ministries.
I can see why using Moses or Paul as an example can be confusing cos they operated in diversity of gifts.
Not all ministries require teaching. But when you see someone who operates in diversity of spiritual gifts, it might seem confusing.
There are those who exclusively prophesy but cannot teach. There are those who exclusively evangelise but cannot teach. There are those who exclusively teach but cannot prophesy. Likewise there are those who exclusively teach but cannot evangelise.
I met various people who fall in these 4 categories. And I have met those who operate in all these ministry gifts.
I guess cos you're a teacher, you tend to believe everyone can teach, but no sir. Not everyone can.
hupernikao: Spiritual gifts are well taught in the Bible. All you listed were taught.
Paul taught spiritual gift in 1 Cor 12,13,14. Dedicated a whole chapter to teaching it (14). This includes prophesying and all.
Jesus taught his disciples how to work miracles, he instructed them on what can go wrong.
He taught them faith in God. He taught them how to remain filled with the spirit and how faith works.
Book of Acts showed you practical and true life events on how these gift were discovered and established in the church. We saw Stephen, Philip, we knew they were taught by the Apostles, who were prophets, teachers, Pastors and evangelist. They saw them taught it and work it. Hence the 7 deacons were students of the apostles doctrine.
Those were teachings.
To say such were not taught in the Bible is not correct.
Faith in God is the beginning of all gifts and calling. Faith in God was taught from Genesis to Revelation. The essence of such is to build men and walk in spirit gift.
See Moses bow teaching the primary role of a prophets. Not for prophesying or miracles but teaching to follow God
Deut 13 1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder. 2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass,
whereof he spake unto (taught) thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; 3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Jesus taught the same, Paul and Peter did. They were teaching emphasizing Moses.
A prophet who isn't a teacher of gods word, as primary duty should not be taken seriously.
We judge him by what he teaches. He if doesn't teach, we reject him.
This is the scripture stands.
I get your point. At the end of the day, some one needs to "teach" or mentor you into these things, right?
But there are some things you just have to be honest about. Jesus tried hopelessly to teach his disciples a lot of things. But got tired. Guess what, he got so frustrated cos they could never understand him.
This was what necessitated him praying for the Helper, cos there are some things you just can't teach. And that's because they are spiritual gifts.
calmness0: I honestly don't understand why people accept challenges in Gods name, even if He uses you, do you have to dare Him so as to trend on social media? When the Spirit of God left Samson, Bible said that Samson stood to do as he used to before, but the Spirit of God already left him.
Poster above me, stole my ftc. You post thread, collect ftc untop
Poster below me
In the bible; 1. Elijah accepted challenges against the prophets of Baal.
2. Moses accepted challenges against Pharaoh. He even negotiated with Gpd first before accepting to go to liberate the Israelitez from Egypt.
There are other examples if you spend more time reading the bible than quoting your pastor.
obembet: 400 millions following him. How I wish he can use this platform to follow God and have 400 million follow him to follow God. This is the ultimate purpose of every platform God has given us to drive traffic to God abi what do you think righteousness2
That means he is the most popular footballer in the world
Dont be foolish. God has more followers. But you won't be satisfied until everyone accepts your own religious idea of God.
: You like suggesting the scriptures stand as my opinion. You will need to cross check things I say with the scriptures.
Scriptures should define responsibilities for you not grammar or English.
All you need to do is to obverse all through the scriptures this roles and see what they did primarily.
[b]What was Moses primary role Sir? To prophesy or to teach/shepherd?
Why was John the Baptist called a prophet? What was his primary role as seen in the Bible Prophesy or teach?
What of Isaiah? Ezekiel?
What exactly do a prophet does primarily? To prophesy, foretell or to speak/teach people God's plan?
We shouldn't be taking our conclusion from common motives or English meaning. We must look into the scriptures. Those roles are well seen in the Bible.
When you have checked this well, you should come to this conclusion.
That primary role of
Prophet is teaching. Pastor is teaching Evangelist is teaching Apostle is teaching.
A ministry gift without a primary role of teaching isn't called of God. Take that to the bank.Spiritual gifts are not taught. Working of miracles isn't taught, prophesying isn't taught. Which is why I faulted your submission that all of the ministry is primarily teaching.
"Agbekoya" literally translates to farmer-avengers. From my little history they used to be very potent in jazz. Let's watch how this marvel series goes
Blue3k: Lol I remember idiots said the Eco failed to launch because of French subversion. How is it France's fault none of the ECOWAS nations met their own criteria for launching the currency the past 20 years? This project won't materialize especially when the biggest economies in the region can't get their acts together to make it happen.
The problem is countries like Nigeria will never let it work. Cos our corrupt politicians thrive off devaluing our currency for their greedy gains which they won't be able to do with a single pan-African currency.
Princess80: Most times I see men asking the question of what ladies bring to the table.
Seriously, we aren't created to bring, we are to process, the man is the provider, he will bring everything for us to process.
If u give us bring sperm, we give u babies If u give us groceries, we have to give u food If u give a house, we give u a home Give us frustration, and trust me, i will surely multiply it and give u hell.
In the bible, Adam had everything and had dominions over it, the woman only came to help him harvest his raw materials.
When it comes to finance, Oga it is 100% ur responsibility, I could only assist when my husband isn't making much and he had future plans or if I earn better than he does. U can't share financial burden with me and still expect me to cater for the children, wash, cook, clean all alone and still gather enough strength for ur wahala at night. Bringing money is the only thing a man does, why on earth will u share that very one with me? When I object, u will call me a feminist, Oga masculnist, I will not share. Every other responsibility in a home belongs to me, while financial responsibilities must be shared abi. Note: sharing financial burden and helping are two different things.
Oya let the insults pour 123 go.
I think to start to measure your error would require a whole new thread so I'll just point out the obvous;
1. You erred from your very title" ... women arent supposed to bring anything."
This is an insult to women who bring ideas, advice, finance, repackaging of their husbands, children and even sex to the table.
So clearly a woman brings many things to the table.
Suffice to say your intention was that women should not have to bring finance to the table, right?
Even this is subjective, depending on the parties in the relationship and their mutual understanding.
hupernikao: Primary role of all ministry gift is teaching. NOTE that word "PRIMARY".
Apostle is a teacher of God's Word Prophet is a teacher of God's Word Pastor is a teacher of God's Word Evangelist is a teacher of God's Word
This is the primary role of everyone of them. So I am not saying miraculous should be abandoned. What I push is that it shouldn't be the basis of judging God's word or a minister of God.
He is a minister of God, that minister his word in truth. Hence the miracles will be a support anchor not the focus.
This is simply your opinion.
If the primary role of all the ministry gifts is teaching then there will only be teachers.
A teacher teaches A prophet prophesies An evangelist preaches A pastor leads An Apostle plants churches.
You should already know these differences and that's what distinguishes them. Unless you're saying God or Paul didnt know what he was saying or "teaching".
stoyadewayawaya: A female roommate is needed in a miniflat in Surulere. It's an extremely neat environment and I am very interested in finding someone who is just as neat and accommodating as I am. She must be a Christian, preferably a professional who has a 9-5. Please send me an email, if interested. Thank you The total package is 820,000 and that includes agency and legal fees and but subsequent rent is 300,000 per roommate (600,000 in total) Please contact me or share it. Thank you
I'm a guy with female vibes, that count? I dot the i's and cross the t s. I fit the bill and I'm exactly what the doctor ordered. You should close this thread already.
Mbamally: 1. who's and whose Who’s is a contraction, who + is, or who + has. For example: who’s hungry? Whose is a possessive pronoun. For example: whose sandwich is this?
2. toward and towards Both spellings are correct, and they mean the same thing: in the direction of. Toward is the preferred spelling in the United States and Canada. In other English-speaking countries, such as the United Kingdom and Australia, towards is the more common spelling.
3. their and there There means the opposite of here; “at that place.” Their means “belongs to them.”
4. stationary and stationery Stationary means fixed, or unchanging. Stationery refers to paper, matching envelopes etc.
5. inquiry and enquiry enquire simply means to “ask,” while inquire was used for formal investigations. You can use either enquire or inquire and not make a mistake. Inquire is what you’ll usually see in American English.
6. loose and lose Loose: means not firmly fixed, or not tight. The handle is loose. Lose: I don't want to lose my job.
8. defense and defence Defence and defense are both correct/the same. It comes down to the part of the world in which they are used. In the United States, people spell it with an “s” while UK with "c".
hupernikao: Not sure this contradict my stand. Likewise the miraculous in evangelism isnt what build a believer. Teaching does. I will trust more a believer who put the learning of God's word in high esteem than one who rest on the miraculous. That is the teaching in the Bible.
We didn't contradict. Just pointing out that expecting miracles is not a wrong doctrine.
The church as we know should have various facets/ministries- some teachers, evangelists, prophets, pastors and apostles (Ephesians 4:11) with their corresponding spiritual gifts 1 Corinthans 12:7-12).
So we can't focus on just the pastor and teaching and neglect the prophets or evangelists. All are meant to work together to build the one body of Christ (Ecclesia) to fullness. Ephesians 3:17-18
Christianity was built upon the foundation of right Bible interpretation. That is what Jesus did 80% of his time, what all apostles spent their life on. Miracles, signs are good and perfect, they still happens today but they were never given to build a believer. They were not meant to be what determines our faith or the scriptures. Doctrine is the unchanging yard at which we search, seek, find and know God and what he truly says. The eternal life which is the word of God.
This is the reason a Christian walk must be founded upon a strong desire for Bible interpretation and sound doctrine not on miracles. Anything outside this can be manipulated, remade, adjusted, teleguided or worked by the adversaries.
This is the reason for the rise of organized rebellion like atheism even among those who claimed to be "former" Christian. They were exposed to falsehood of always getting what you want or desire. It stemmed from poor appreciation of proper Bible interpretations.
Any Christian life built outside a strong exposure and desire to know the scriptures by properly interpreting its message will be heading towards confusion.
This confusion may be evident in some worship places today, but we trust God.
Yes, we trust God, that the light of his word will spread more above all confusion and manipulation.
We pray that strong churches, local churches that are built on the foundation of strong desire for proper Bible interpretation not on self seeking benefits either by the preacher or the members will be heard louder in these days.
That the voice of the Spirit will be heard through proper Bible interpretations even among those who claim its unnecessary.
Yet, the miraculous will be seen in our midst more and more but will never take the place of rightly dividing the word which is what build men.
Amen.
Experiencing the miraculous during evangelism is a sound doctrine as exemplified by Christ and the Apostles. Also as promised by Christ in Mark 16:17-18
And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”
Why post these words of birthday or anniversary wishes on social media when you can easily tell the person either via phone call or face to face when you guys wake up next to each other...
It's the norm. That's the generation we have found ourselves. If she doesnt share this next thing bloggers will say there is trouble in paradise.lol
andysmith123: cutting your hair does not guarantee you fine face,......you might want to look like CHIDIMMA but end up looking like EMMANUELA
You no dey sensitive.
This babe with all wealth is unhappy and cutting her hair is one of the signs of depression kicking in. (Of cos not everyone who cut their hair is a sign of depression.)
I may be wrong but I think she's finding it hard to find love. And as a Yoruba chic I'm sure family is pressuring her with marriage as she inches close to the dreaded 3.0.
I hope she has good friends or mentors to help her snap back to reality that she has everything going well for her and she should not let anyone pressure her with marriage. (If that's the issue) She should focus on her continued success and know that love will eventually find her as long as she stays open to love. Age ain't nothing but a number. Some people will marry early, some will marry late, c'est la vie.
hupernikao: Great. In all it wasn't a bad time discussing scriptures with you. Especially when it's mind engaging.
We surely will meet someday.
On the topic, I gave my submission earlier. Hope to contribute more.
Thank you for your time.
Yea, same here. Like minds. The mind of Christ perhaps.lol
Mind engagement is interesting but more than that I long for spiritual engagement viz the manifestations of the Word and power of the Holyspirit in us, through us and around us. God knows we need it now more than ever individually and as a nation and generation.
I remember back when evangelism was my daily joy, it was a challenge meeting people with real life challenges and after preaching the gospel to them, they confessed their sins and placed their faith in Christ. After prayers you believe God for the manifestations but nothing happened.
Over time I became discouraged.
That's why I don't really believe some portions of the bible anymore, which explains why this thread was opened.
You read an account of what is written that Jesus said in one gospel but not mentioned in any other gospel. And you wonder if truly Jesus said it or it was a product of biblical canonisation. Those who put the bible together decided what they wanted in the bible.
Kobojunkie: You did not answer my questions at all. 1. I see that you use the word "Trust" in relation to both the words Faithful(adjective) and the word Faith(noun) yet you somehow conclude they have different meanings - unrelated to the figure of speech ofcourse- , how come?
2. Does God have faith or not?
If no, what you imply is God doesn't have Faith(noun) but He is Faithful(adjective)? How come? If yes, you claim it means he trust his ability to accomplish anything.
So is it a yes or a no?
3. And when we say a person is faithful -not when a person has faith - what does that mean?
1. Faithful by definition is different from Faith. Faithful means you're trust worthy. You can be trusted. Faith means you trust in someone/yourself or God's ability.
2. Strange line of thought but God certain has Faith in himself and his ability to accomplish anything he promises.
3. Like I said in (1) it means the person can be trusted.
I am interested in your own meaning though. Cos it seems you have a different opinion on this.
1. I see that you use the word "Trust" in relation to both the words Faithful(adjective) and the word Faith(noun) yet you somehow conclude they have different meanings - unrelated to the figure of speech ofcourse- , how come?
2. When we say God has Faith, what does it mean?
3. And when we say a person is Faithful, what does that mean?
I believe I answered these already. You should share your own meaning.
1. I see that you use the word "Trust" in relation to both the words Faithful(adjective) and the word Faith(noun) yet you somehow conclude they have different meanings - unrelated to the figure of speech ofcourse- , how come?
2. When we say God has Faith, what does it mean?
3. And when we say a person is Faithful, what does that mean?
Who says God has Faith? Lol We say man has faith.
If God has faith, then it means he trust his ability to accomplish anything. If a man has faith, it means he trust God's ability to accomplish anything.
hupernikao: Was the golden calf not for worship? In their days, where do they hold worship of idols? If they are to continue worshiping the golden image, where will it be worshipped? Was it not going to be in the temple. A demand for golden calf is already a demand for temple of worship.
You need to read the bible with the cultural background of their days. You are reading it in isolation. How will someone in Moses days desire a god and you said he doesnt desire a tabernacle or temple.
Deuteronomy 4:15-19, 23-25 So since you saw no form of any kind on the day the LORD spoke to you out of the fire at Horeb, be careful
No form, no tabernacle, no temple. he spoke to them directly. That was God's plan. They rejected him, hence the reason they were given temple. In facts the temple was a demonstration of the veil in their heart that separate them from God. Moses as a new testament preacher never had veil separating him from God. he spoke with God face to face.
I gave you Stephen defence, go and read it again. God's desire was never a temple, Moses desire was never a temple.
So the reason for the above was clear in the bible. They never wanted God to speak to them directly. Hence what Moses preached to them, his commandment was that God wants to indwell them and speak directly to them. They rejected that. This is the reason for the temple. That is to let you know that the temple wasnt original plan of God. It was man made idea.
Hence what you are calling old covenant was a rejection of God's covenant which Moses preached. What you see in Christ was a renewal of what Moses preached. The temple was man's choice, man's rejection not God's covenant. God's covenant was to live in man. That was Moses messages and Jesus too. They both preached the same.
Good, so does this not showed you that this is an image of a resemblance of things in heaven. But God warned against that in his covenant.
Deuteronomy 5:8 You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in the heavens above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.
He gave them to show them their rejection. God never lived in that temple, not even for a day.
Acts 7 47 But Solomon built him an house. 48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, 49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? 50 Hath not my hand made all these things?
He never had such plan. He gave them their desire, when they rejected his. That is clear in the scriptures.
Yes, but dont loose focus on why the temple was given. They asked to see what they worship, they wanted to be like the heathen. They made a god, because they needed to worship image. In ancient world, gods are worshipped in temples. Hence by requesting for an idol/god they already request for a temple of worship but God gave them none in his covenant. Man is to be God's temple. Moses preached this to them.
The physical temple was a demonstration of the hardness of their heart. It was God showing them, that i gave you up to your own desire. It was a sign of rejecting God. Same as the tablet of stones. Every other writers interpreted it as the heart of the disobedient man (stony heart). God's law was to be in their hearts but they are hardened (stony heart) hence he gave them to their desires. God's covenant (dwelling in man) is now renewed as proclaimed by Moses and other prophets, a fleshy heart, a heart that yield to God, where God spirit dwells. That was fulfilled in Jesus. That is the only covenant God had with man. No old or new. It was same covenant renewed.
This is exacly what i am clearing. Moses never taught anything different. How do you say someone used my jottings and taught something different. He copied my notes, used it has his authority, yet you said he taught what is different. The authority of the scriptures mean you agreed to all that was taught not teaching your own doctrine from it.
Is like saying a scientist copied Darwin and agreed that Darwins research was his authority, yet claim he wrong against Darwin. Authority simply means agreement, that i agree it is true, one who i support and trust and copy from to make judgement.
Jesus never taught his own doctrine, he taught Moses doctrine.
Bro, ancient world, ancient world. You must always take that in consideration in your interpretation. All ancient world fought war because that is how you will survive. That is the norm then. Moses was
1. A head of state 2. A prophet of God.
He has a responsibility to fight war as head of state of Israel. Yet he has a responsibility as God's prophet to speak God eternal facts. You must know how to separate this. Ask yourself, Would Jesus have fought war or not in time of Moses? A nation that cant engage in war in the ancient world is doom for annihilations. That was their history. Ask Again, would Moses have fought war if he comes in Jesus time. Answer that with his words below.
Deut 18: 15 The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
The spirit on Christ was same on Moses. Hence we can interpolate their actions if the character were exchanged in history.
By the way, wasnt Jesus (God) the Lord of host of Moses the army.
If that's the way you see it, It's fine. This your last point ehn? You want to start on theophany again? Lol
Anyway, like I said, we should open another thread some time for that or who knows some time we could meet in 7D.
On this topic of this thread though, how the bible came about is still up for discussion.
Kobojunkie: Ok, now that we have established that you know what the dictionary says as far as meaning of the word, can we get to you answering the question I asked?
Again, Why is God referred to in scripture as Faith-ful? What does it mean to say God is Faithful God? What does His Faithfulness refer to?
Surely we know that the word can't have a different scriptural meaning when applied to God, right?
What does it mean for one to be a Faith-ful servant of his master?
Kobojunkie: Let’s try this from another angle since you don't seem to see what I see the other way.
Why is God called Faith-ful? What does it mean to say God is Faithful God? What does His Faithfulness refer to?
Surely we know that the word can't have a different meaning when applied to God, right?
Faithful and Faith can have different meanings.
Having Faith could mean that you "trust" in God/Jesus ability to save you. Being Faithful doesn't necessary mean you have faith. It could simply mean you're trust-worthy. That you can be trusted.
Hence when we say God is faithful it simply means he is trust-worthy to do what he promises to do.
When we say a person has faith, by inference it should mean such person has trust in God's to accomplish anything.
Hopefully this attached dictionary definitions should help disambiguate the two.
NNTR: I dont do argument(s) Argument is your stock-of-trade, pity I dont have any to exchange you with, loll.
I can bet my bottom dollar, that you clearly read that what I typed was 'Everything is almost a miracle' so why need to twist my comment, only you know.
Psalm 139:14 I will give thanks and praise to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Your works, And my soul knows it very well i.e. Marvelous are Your works, And that my soul knows very well..
Him being insoluble, in itself is a miracle. Him, you, us, they, we all are a walking miracle, loll.
Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.
Argument doesn't always mean something negative. Maybe cos I studied science, argument simply means an opinion or point of reasoning.
Why not give Hebrews 11:6 above, a very thorough good look again, my dear muslim friend brother, loll.
Now, how come, you dont know that, faith is the currency of heaven and God has given every human being, including yourself, a very good measure of it to use.
Everything is almost a miracle. Take you for instance, you. You're a miracle. Now watch this, isnt it a miracle that you dont dissolve in your bath, like a lump of sugar. Hmm?
Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.
That's not a reasonable argument. If everything is a miracle then by inference nothing is a miracle He cannot dissolve in his bath because he is insoluble. Simple reason why knowledge of basic science is important in life
Christianity Etc › Re: What Is Faith by Myer(op): 7:26am On Feb 10, 2022
