₦airaland Forum

mazaje: Why the F*CK do people actually believe these crazy pastors?. . .When you tell people such lies outside the church they will not pay attention to you, but inside the church everything goes due to fear. . .Its very pathetic. . .

The difficult part is accepting any belief system. Once you do, you swallow anything it spews out to you because you believe there is some spiritual authority behind it. Since spiritual authorities are higher than you, it matters not that anything does not make sense. In fact, the question of making sense does not arise anymore because you aren't looking for sense here.

The sensible way to deal with ideas fed to you is to be trying to refute them, but with religion, the reverse is often the case - you keep trying to reinforce your belief and anything that sounds contrary is dismissed offhand. "419ers" understand this phenomenon. When they approach you, they sell you idea of making a lot of money first. Once you buy that, the rest is easy. It is after the whole show that you will look back and realise that the scheme never added up from the start. But at the time you failed to see the screaming signs because... you know why!

jayriginal: I cant. Can you quote the number of people in the bible that swallowed eba ?

^^^ Haba, Jayriginal! I don't think your analogy is apt. It was commanded in the Bible that people cut off their hands if it leads them to sin. She says that's metaphorical and if you say it isn't you should show her where anyone cut off their hands in the Bible... and you are asking her to show you where anyone ate Eba in the Bible! One example to explain what she is saying: Peter slashed off the ear of someone who came to arrest Jesus, yet Jesus simply re-attached the ear. Peter's hands which caused him to sin in this case were not cut off. This incident took place after Matt 5:29 and 18:18.

Deep Sight: I think I really just got fatigued with this thread. I'll give it a shot tomorrow to see if I can still point out again how terribly the words "nature" and "reality" are being conflated. They are not the same thing.

I think a more accurate stating of the issue is whether homosexuality exists in nature or outside of it. Iden's point appears to be that homosexuality exists in nature and all things that exist in nature are natural. When you come back please show that homosexuality exists outside nature and you've nailed it!

Edit: I'm assuming, of course, that you agree that everything that exists in nature is natural.

ifihearam: Truth be told,there is no one person that has a clean slate in Nigeria provided you have occupied any public office. frm nuhu to waziri and now lamorde. They all are criminals.

But please ooo what concerns the National security adviser on this issue??

Please explain what makes Nuhu a criminal.

Martian: How did you come about this interesting piece of information?

Just one of the Shakespeare authorship conspiracy theories that have floated around for long. When you read the post above this you will see there are others, although plaetton gives much prominence to "Bacon is Shakespeare" which he obviously takes very seriously.

Pastor AIO: I think this and the post before it could possibly be the ugliest post I've ever written on NL, or possibly that anyone has ever written. And not only because I was in the wrong about the issue. Even if I was right, it is the manner in which I went about it that makes me so disappointed in myself. This calls for some deep soul searching. It is not only here that I've manifested this kind of style, but it is just a culmination of an approach that has been building up over the last 6 or so months. I've slowly come to relish the yabis exchanges, even as a third party just reading a thread.

But it's good that it's happened cos I now realise that I have some serious self appraisal to do. I would like to extend my unreserved apologies to those mentioned by name, the 'relevant people, Enigma, Olaadegbu, and Davidylan.

I'll be back later with more thoughts. Maybe start another thread on it.

I doubt it was simply about enjoying "yabis", and it's not a six month old matter. You love to "hit back" whenever you feel a tad "slighted". I will even venture to say you tend to get touchy when disagreed with. Not rarely does this happen. You may check your old posts. Sometimes, it's just a change of tone, but it's there.

It is good you want to pay attention to this. We all need an occasional self-appraisal, though.

Double post

LilMizzGood: a friend who is a unbeliever of God and I am a believer so he said
"tell me Sunny if you so believe that there is a God, tell me where did Cain got his wife from since there was only Adam and Eve with 3 son and 1 die"

What do we have here?! God = Bible = Adam and Cain story.

Kay 17: @OP,

Can a woman marry 6 husbands??

This is not a very smart question.

@Ptolomeus
Thank you for throwing more light. The "trickstar" view seems to be predominant in literature emanating from that axis.

[quote author=PAGAN 9JA]I remember saying this statement. The Gods do not directly interfere in human affairs. However they do tend to influence different spheres of human activity. In this case, it was probably the work of lesser spirits. i do not know the exact circumstances of what happened there. All i know is what i saw from the video. Who knows? maybe the husband was a very good man? we don't really know.[/quote]Ok. But I would like to know why you said the bolded. What bearing might the wronged husband's character have on the efficacy of this "juju" or the gods' interest in the matter?

[quote author=PAGAN 9JA]The Gods did not allow us any such power. First of all, the Religious do tend to connect more with the forces than ordinary people, because they tend to concentrate all the energy in their lives to such activities. we on the other hand are more distracted with worldly activities. (I am obviously talking about the true religious leaders and not the fake ones who are not committed). Same case with those who practice these form of witchcraft( If they know what they e doing. there are a lot of fakes around).[/quote]If by concentrating our energies we can connect with forces and acquire supernatural powers, why do you say the gods don't grant us these powers?

[quote author=PAGAN 9JA]no not all Gods are tricksters. However, unlike the christian man/God, our Gods balance out the forces, i.e. they can be good or bad, it does not matter. We usually assign different Gods to different forces, depending on different traditional religions and their requirements.[/quote]Ok. This only leads to a subject I would rather not go into at this time.

[quote author=PAGAN 9JA]NO there is no point in seeking protection from the evil forces. the christians just want to eliminate evil completely and bring about so called "light" and good". this is impossible. the forces must be balanced. Ironically, they are committing a lot of evil acts in the process of[i] trying [/i] to do good. so you see no matter how hard they try, they cant do away with one side. Their evil acts in this world are compensating for what good they are trying to bring about. The forces, i repeat, must be balanced. There cant be good without evil. or else there is no comparison! how can you know what sweet tastes like, if you have never known bitter![/quote]You mean, if my ex-wife acquires these powers and is conjuring to have me lose my oyel company job in Port Harcourt and return to Koluoma village to resume where my grandfather left off fishing, I should fold my hands and not seek protection?

Maybe we can't do away with evil, but how does that justify your assertion that "there is no point" in trying to eliminate it? Since all right-thinking people find evil repulsive, doesn't it seem obvious that it is our duty to resist evil and seek to banish it wherever we find it; that is, working for the ideal world even if it is not attainable? If your point is that the gods always seek to balance good and evil, aren't the Christians doing their human duty by working only for that which is good from the human standpoint?

[quote author=PAGAN 9JA]Therefore we do not need to seek any protection. All we need to do is to do our duty. Duty Above All! [/quote]What is "our duty"?

Double post.

This article is nonsense, in my opinion. I think it's because he has no case to make that he resorted to ad hominems, half-truths and outright lies. Where, for instance, did Paul equate the husband with Jesus? Or does Mr Aribisala simply lack basic comprehension skills?

There are several things I don't like very much about Paul's teachings, but I think people blow this verse out of proportions. In human relationships, any type of relationship, there is someone vested with the responsibility of taking the lead and accepting responsibility for actions jointly taken. A captain. A figurehead. A head. In the office. In the school. In the home. Everywhere. I have witnessed kids ask their mother who would be in charge once they realised they were going to be left all by themselves.

It happens that when the leader has a small mind he abuses his power. Otherwise, he leads by serving. In maritime culture, there is an unwritten rule that the captain is last to exit a sinking ship. You need someone to take charge of the rescue effort and that someone must be prepared to stay till the end. This is the concept of "servant-leader", which Mr Aribisala himself mentions and by which he inadvertently demolishes his own thesis.

But if a head is necessary, why the man? I mean, many women are obviously smarter than many men, so why not simply let the smarter person head the family? Well, I think people should try to be sensible enough to do what works for them in their own case. But as far as setting down a principle goes, it is easy to see the practicality of this one as it is. Generally speaking, women are more emotional, either liking it or hating it. Men, on the other hand, tend to weigh pros and cons. And leadership is not about perfection. The leader isn't always the best. A sensible leader realises this and consults with everyone in his team. A sensible husband ensures his wife gets what she wants, except there is a good reason to do otherwise.

And neither does the Bible teach that a man is the head of a woman. A contextual reading of the verse shows that Paul was talking of the relationship within the home, not one between Aribisala and Okonjo-Iweala as Mr Aribisala seems to think in his confusion. So a husband is the head of his wife, but a man is not necessarily the head of a woman. I think the principle of headship within the family is fair, sensible and proper. It is sad that some men abuse their headship but that does not defeat the principle, which is by the way universal, natural and eternal. Paul was merely reiterating it. Reasonable people had no problem with this principle until the emergence of evangelical feminism (apologies to Enigma).

As for his claim that Christian men make terrible husbands, I wouldn't know, since I am hardly a "Christian man", but does he have figures or this is just another case of a writer pushing his own conspiracy theory as a fact?

I ask you to provide a verse to support your claims that Jesus (1) "went house to house", (2) "went door to door on foot", (3) "went looking for people to heal", and you fly off the handle, throwing handkerchief insults and telling me Jesus walked on the road!

ijawkid: U want scriptures??
Scriptures are on d way....

Ok. Waiting for them.

ijawkid: Meanwhile have u checked out d other points or ur pastors have given u some handkerchiefs to block ya eyes...

It's a two inch thick handkerchief.

ijawkid: Jesus cured 10 lepers,I wonder whether he was on a chariot or on a pullpit when he did that....

Luke 17:15 (NIV)
11 Now on his way to Jerusalem, Jesus traveled along the border between Samaria and Galilee. 12 As he was going into a village, ten men who had leprosy met him. They stood at a distance 13 and called out in a loud voice, “Jesus, Master, have pity on us!”

Please show where he healed them "door to door" or went "looking for them".

ijawkid: D woman with d blood flow,wasn't Jesus actually walking by with his disciples on d road?was he on a chariot or on a crusade ground

Please show where I have said Jesus did not walk on the road.

ijawkid: Jesus moved from place to place where he could meet d down trodden..

Please show where I said he did din't move "from place to place". While you are at it, find out the difference between generalisations, such as "place to place" and specifics, such as "door to door". You may also want to explain where his most famous sermon was given, whether it was a crusade or door to door. When you are through, don't forget to provide that single verse where he went... You are yet to provide it.

ijawkid: Pick up ur bible and read d gospels and come back to analyze modern day miracle workers...

I don't care about "miracle workers". I'm only interested in your specious claims, but you are in a belligerent mode, so you can't see that.

ijawkid: Soon u'll say Jesus was as rich as d modern day charlatans who call themselves follwers of Jesus...

*sigh*
Jesus was actually richer than Croesus and Oyedepo put together. Now, ask me for the verse and I will provide it.

@Ptolomeus
Thanks for your good input. I'm aware Esu is not a trickstar in Yoruba mythology - that is why I advisedly said Brazilian mythology. In the exported variants of Orisa found in Latin America and the Caribean, this description of Esu appears to be dominant.

@Pagan_9ja
Thanks for your brilliant response. I will respond tomorrow.

Godmouth: @ My Joe I know there are genuine men and women that God is using to do miracles today, however there as also a huge number of so-called ministers of God who are preaching their own type of gospel as ijawKid rightly pointed out. Your answer to the question you asked IjawKid is found in Matthew 4 vs 23-25 where Jesus travelled round Galilee preaching the gospel, healing the sick and casting out devils. A genuine man of God may not necessarily go from door-to-door to achieve this now: however He must be open to God's direction and must be will to be actively mobile: doing the work of God. He/She must be ready to do whatever it takes to ensure that the gospel is preached. That's exactly what Jesus did. Paul did the same as well, so did the rest of the Apostles.

I'm not on about any "men and women of God" (whatever that means) doing or not doing miracles today. I only asked him to substantiate a specific claim I believe he made in error. Something I doubt the Bible actually says.

As for your claim, here is Matthew 4:23-25(KJV)
23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

24 And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them.

25 And there followed him great multitudes of people from Galilee, and from Decapolis, and from Jerusalem, and from Judaea, and from beyond Jordan.

Matthew 4:23-25 (GNT):
23 Jesus went all over Galilee, teaching in the synagogues, preaching the Good News about the Kingdom, and healing people who had all kinds of disease and sickness.24 The news about him spread through the whole country of Syria, so that people brought to him all those who were sick, suffering from all kinds of diseases and disorders: people with demons, and epileptics, and paralytics—and Jesus healed them all.25 Large crowds followed him from Galilee and the Ten Towns, from Jerusalem, Judea, and the land on the other side of the Jordan

Please highlight the portions of the verse that support the claim made by ijawkid as highlighted by me in my original post on this thread. Thank you.

Pagan_9ja,
Since, according to your stated view, the gods don't intervene in human affairs, what is your explanation for this? Why would the gods allow us "juju" power and then hands off? Are these guys (gods) all Eshu, the "trickstar" of Brazilian mythology, laughing while we hurt ourselves? Or are the Christians right in saying "juju" is real and of the devil and we should seek protection from Jesus against it?

plaetton: Its all about hormones- hormonal imbalance. Humans are, to some extent, androgenous by nature. It is the predominance of either the male or female hormones that leads to sexual differentiation and or orientation.As far as we know, homosexuality is a situation where a male's body secretes more of the female hormones and less of the male hormones,thereby leading to inclination towards feminine tendencies-notably, attraction of the opposite hormones(in this case, other males).
Homosexuality is not a psychological dysfunction, it is physiological one. People are born homosexual just like any other physiological shortcoming.

We are naturally averse to the practice of homosexuality because it is the opposite of our default natural order.That is understandable . However,like the many oher contradictions of religious faith,it is very very silly to say that god(supposedly, the all knowing creator of all, who was pleased with his good works),is very angry at homosexuality(an error in his creation). Either god is very very silly or his babel of interpreters are the very silly ones.

If fornication is a sin, does god have a preference or tolerance for heterosexual fornication than he has for homosexual fornication? Are there hierachies of sin? A liar, a cheat, a thief and a murderer should be as guilty of sin as a homosexual fornicator. Not so?

This just about sums it up.

ijawkid: Reasons y I shuld doubt todays acclaimed miracle workers..
2..Jesus ::moved from house to house,city to city,door to door on foot and solved whatever problems he met,performing miracles ,even ressurecting dead persons...

Pastors today:: they stay @ there comfort zones,send there gullible members to run around with bills inviting people to a crusade of which many sick persons dnt even have d means to get to d location...(Are they bigger than Jesus I wonder)
Never has any of the daddy G.O's or pastors trekked on d road looking for sick persons to heal infact they have become so rich and wealthy to do that..

Please highlight one verse in the Bible where Jesus did the bolded. Thank you in anticipation of your cooperation.

Sagamite: That would be unislamic!

Muhammed said "marry and procreate"!

You can see how your problems would begin.

It will test your interpretation of what was the great prophet's ideology when he said that.

Examples of the problems created when people decide to abandon their brains but live their lives based on what some illiterate medieval people said but claiming to be guided by God.

He he he. I saw that coming. Educated Muslims do birth control and it appears the Muslim scholars who say it is okay are in the majority. But conservative Muslims insist it's haram and I guess such people as the Kano Hisbah would be among these. So, yeah, that would be a problem.

Sagamite: Are the fundamentals of a successful marriage incorporated in the approach?

I read there will be a courtship of... how long, I can't recall. The parties will be allowed to pick, assess, decline and reject. Fact: many "normal" marriages don't have the fundamentals of a successful marriage.

Sagamite: How long will the relief last for most of these women?

For those "lucky" enough to find their "soul mate" through this means, for a lifetime. For others, for much shorter or no relief at all.

Bruv, if I were the head of the Kano Hisbah, I would not dump this. I would call a few sociology professors and other consultants from BUK down the road or further afield if none are available there and plan things properly. Tackle the root cause of the divorces and find ways to incorporate birth control into these marriages.

begwong: Because the prophet sticked to four &instructed/warned no other mortal shd surpass that else. . .

Where did you get that from?

Sagamite: Bruv, if one is going to solve social problems then one needs to develop a visionary, all-encompassing, problem-solving framework. Not this cattle-rearing, 23 kobo, illiterate, plucked-from-a-tin-can approaches.

I agree with the bolded. That is also the problem I have with this. Under the current system that state will keep churning out divorcees, causing more misery and desperation and potential recruits for Boko Haram.

Sagamite: I can guarantee you this moronic approach would just lead to a different problem, or worse, compound the problem.

These women want to get married. There are men who would like to marry them. What the Hisbah people are doing is paying for it - their way of tackling social problems like begging and prostitution. These marriages will bring relief to many of these women. Some of the marriages will fail. Some of the women will go through all the terrible things some married women go through. That is the way these things go, even with "normal" marriages. Now, the most obvious "different problem, or worse" arising from this is that there may be more children whom nobody can cater for. We know this needn't be the case. That is why I share your view about an all-encompassing approach. Matchmaking, or assisting divorced women to find husbands is not the problem. It is the short-sighted approach adopted here that is; and that is something Nigerian policymakers seem very adept at, whether it's albinos writing UTME or Kano divorced women.

Sagamite: The North just seems to want to accelerate to backwardness.

I think the Hisbah Board is trying to solve a social problem. What is vexing here is the Shariah prescriptions on divorce which is at the root of this problem. Unfortunately, nothing, it appears, is being done about this by the thoughtful Kano government.

chikaliki: Am just seeking for opinion not abuse. I mean honest answer not abuse.

He wasn't abusing you, and I think you should have given the entirety of his post a serious thought. But it seems he didn't say what you wanted to hear, which is, " Don't go for a married man", "Polygamy is hell", "My father had three wives and we suffered", "bla bla bla".

You see, there is no objective answer to the question of whether becoming a second wife is good or bad. The only question worth asking is whether the major players - the husband and the women involved - are comfortable with it. If this man is a "good" man, for instance, and his wife is comfortable with you and you see nothing wrong with becoming wife number two, marrying him would be a wise decision. But it appears to be the case that you are with the crowd in condemning polygamy without bothering to ask yourself what it is that is condemnable about it and are only considering this at all because the man is rich and is offering to sponsor your education abroad. If that is so, stay away from the marriage and save the other parties the trouble of having a reluctant or mercenary wife.

@LagosShia
You had to write, and then quote, volumes to attempt to explain that small verse of a few lines! Anyway,

1. Are you, a serious Shi'ite, seriously quoting the Hadiths as a response to a serious enquiry?

2. What was your response to someone who quoted the Hadiths in Nairaland to show Mohammed believed Adam was 90 foot tall?

3. Are you quoting a Hadith to counter something stated in the Quran?

Thank you.

ea7: You realise I count deists as atheists right.

Your count is bad, so I will not count it.

Kay 17: But a fundamental difference I find in yours is that, you tend to diminsh your God by reducing him from being the sum total of all that exists to an isolated Being identified separately from the Rest. He is subjected to particular separate attributes which are "un"understandably anthropomorphic.

I doubt Deep Sight has done this at all. Whether God is a separate entity from his creation, is partially separate, or is the same as them is a delicate subject and it is easy to get misunderstood.

Kay 17: The word God is overloaded, misused, abused and monopolized by organized religion.

I see you have made a lot of progress in this matter. It seems Deep Sight's efforts to convert NL atheists is finally bearing fruits. As for your aversion for the word God in reference to "the Being", it's probably a matter of time before you either overcome this psychological hang-up or see it for the gratuitous iconoclasm that it is.

Deep Sight: I simply cannot stand ideas which refer to humans as Almighty God. Can't understand why we see local myths for what they are and yet embrace foreign myths so ardently that we gaze with terror on anyone who denies those myths. Such as the virgin birth. Such as remission of sins by the death on the cross. Its really unimaginable. What really gets me is the fact that rejection of these ridiculous beliefs can actually make one a pariah in this society. If one is not careful, it will even become diufficult to get married to a decent woman of respectable background.

Guy, no be only you see am o!

4llerbuntu: Buncha Ignoramuses


one even dey talk about jury!! in nigerian legal system?

is it not the case thats presented before the judge that the judge will examine before ruling?

can anyone of u argue with the barest modicum of sense that the case of the prosecution was properly collated and professionally presented such that the decision the court arrived at is perverse?

when the prosecution is not interested in doing their job and or do such a shoddy job of it, hide/subvert evidence, deliberately demonstrate incompetence, do u expect the judge to unilaterally manufacture a case against the accused?

a good example is this Erastus Akingbola case, 5 SANs supposedly did such a shoddy job that the judge threw out the case.

In high profile cases, its way easier to get the prosecutor to compromise and do a bad job, than toget a judge to overtly compromise. the best the judge can do is to covertly tell the prosecutor what to do to undermine the case!!!

u all come here to badmouth a judge without any iota of proof other than your beer parlor drunken permutations of who must be guilty and who is innocent. rubbish

You have a point, as that is the way these things go. However, I think what happened in the Ibori case was beyond prosecutorial bungling. It was more likely a grand collusion - AG, judge, and likely the prosecution. You will recall that there was no FEDERAL HIGH COURT, ASABA, until Ibori. Mr Aondoakaa hurriedly put FHC, Asaba, together for Ibori and procured a judge for the job. So the case was fixed from the start. There were alarms raised at the time, but this is Nigeria.

You do have a point. One rarely meets such girls, particularly in Nigeria. When I do, I'm willing to give anything to hang out with her. I think it's the rarity of it plus the fact I have considerable interest in history and classics. But note that this doesn't work for every man and girls who are lacking in this department but endowed in others may thus be just as cool.

AjanleKoko: Yep.
Makes little difference.
You brush your teeth to protect them, not to protect the food or your tummy
Besides, you're supposed to brush after every meal.

No, you are not.