₦airaland Forum

kopell:
You’re right on this one there are many other estates like that, couple of them around Lagos. They have put infrastructure on the estate for the last 20 years trust me probably you’ll see 30 houses it was planned for over 3000 houses, because they knew government lands are secure. 90% of people buying those state lands we’re not ready to build anything, but buy for chicken change then. They have in mind to selling for millions a few years later, that’s why most of the place are not developed. Until government starts revoking all those lands for immediate development otherwise many of those areas will never developed. I remember Fashola did that @ Lekki face2 then.

I agree development is kinda slow but 3,000 extremely large plots is a lot. You'd agree with me that's how development in a sane world should be.

A lot of those hoarding the lands rushed to site when govt wanted to revoke their title around 2015..

somehow:
It all depends on the circumstances surrounding why approval is delayed or not given.

Then the area in question.

Ok.

These happened to some folks here..... they'd be able to give better counsel.

somehow:
You will apply for approval, months later, you still wouldn't get approved. Just approval o.

I got this from someone here yesterday. I think experience shaped him.

That’s why he decided to take it slow!

somehow:
People have been moving and living there before govt moved one tractor there.

They still have flood issues.

I am telling you 1st hand information from one of the residents, not story story.

The man is even building an estates inside Abijo as we speak but moved away from that area.

Failure is inevitable sir if we continue to do thing the wrong way. The roads will still get flooded when we chose to block the drain instead of building proper slab over the drains built by government.

Obviously, you dont follow most of my builds here. We discussed most of these challenges many years ago.

I was even found culpable in one of my threads. I blocked the drain with sand.

Guess why?

We were in a rush to get materials on site that we cant wait to build proper slab over drainage provided by the government. So we (myself and the client) agreed to block the drain.

Shebi na temporary thing ni? Thats how flooding start.


We are always in a rush that we no longer care about consequences of our actions.

somehow:
So people should pulse their lives and dreams hoping on a Govt (at all levels) that only act when there are issues?

That the government is wrong or slow to act doesn't make doing wrong right.

somehow:
As for the blaming of homeowners for building collapse, I will leave that to others to take you on.

It's like blaming a patient outrightly for dying in the hands of a doctor who's supposed to be a professional.

For those who want to take on me, I'd recommend you go through this thread Building Collapse, Construction Failures - Who's To Blame? https://www.nairaland.com/3149390/building-collapse-construction-failures-whos#46319667
I released that hit album in 2016


I will take full responsibility if my house collapse because I am the one who picked all the pieces including the supposed 'professional.'

somehow:
So you are saying government built infrastructure before people started building there?

The same Lekki scheme 2 and Abijo?

Knowing the number of plots and their destination is not the definition of building infrastructure.

Some areas in these places you just mentioned still suffer flood and traffic issues. One of my wife's bosses have a house around there.

Had to move closer to escape the stress he was facing.

Like I said, there is no area in Lagos in the past 20 years that Govt developed the infrastructures before people moved there.

Not even a government known to be reactive than proactive.

I rest my case.

1996 - date should be about 25 years ago.

Lekki Scheme II was conceived 25 years ago and there has been infrastructure development there since over one and half decade. I mean solid road and drainage to individual plots.

I did several projects there (several years ago) that I've showcased here. It's not a fix-along-as-you-build type of development.

somehow:
Areas like?

Lekki Scheme II with 3,095 residential plots, 64 commercial plots, 47 mixed development plots, 26 institutional plots and 17 recreational plots; Abijo GRA and the likes.

It has everything in place

somehow:
The areas you're talking about didn't start existing 10yrs ago, they have been existing for as old as Lagos itself, so I am still trying to understand the 'rush",' patience', and "wait" comment.

Up till now, alot of places on the mainland still get flooded during rainy season, this is a known fact, maybe they were also in a rush to build.

I am at a loss here but I move.

Exactly my point above!

The approach is what we call “fix-along-as-you-build” approach.

So you don’t expect such approach to fix anything. There’ll always be flooding, building collapse and failures because we failed to do things the right way.

somehow:
I am still trying to find an area in Nigeria that was developed by government before people started building there.

There are several of them in Lagos. I’ve shared many of them here.

somehow:
In a nutshell, you're saying those who need a roof over their head in some areas should wait until government comes to fix infrastructures around before they build even if it take 30 years time?

Your analysis to me is sounding somehow.

I am still trying to find an area in Nigeria that was developed by government before people started building there.

There’s no need to preach “Wait and Patience” to anyone sir.

When the time comes, they’d pack to areas where there are no flooding issues in Mainland and Ogun state.

Those who know knows when it’s rainy season in Lekki, we move to our 2nd homes.

Unfortunately, no one can control this no matter how rich!
_______

diordaves:
You probably forgot to also ask him what he meant by jailing homeowners for building collapse.

E be like say @Next smoke Omo detergent because I'm not understanding. Abi na me smoke Omo? Why am I not understanding.

Baba you kuku know me. We’ve been here for a while

You know the drills back then.

somehow:
What do you mean by 'in a rush to build these days'?

This is just my random thought. Don’t take me too serious o.

______

Building don’t collapse because of substandard materials or greedy developers alone, your next door neighbour, government or developments happening around you can bring down your building unknowingly.

Take for instance you’re building in an estate that’s largely undeveloped and someone building close to you decided to bring a D9 dozer into the estate to do earthwork. If your house didn’t fall, it’d experience some real vibrations which can affect your building.

There are basic environmental factors to consider before, during and after we build our houses. This include but not limited to our immediate environment, the weather condition, direction of wind, the development pattern (if you have a 4 floor building amidst bungalows, you should know what to expect during torrential rainfall).

Some beautifully designed and developed estates in Lekki, Lagos are currently submerged and on the brink of collapse not because they didn’t use good materials but because of our development pattern.
Another developer may just feel like Sandfilling his estate higher than every other estates around without considering the consequence.

A lot of projects on Lekki/Epe axis are going to have serious issues with the ongoing road construction.
The new road is way higher than most of the developments happening around the area. With the rising sea level, most developments in and around Lekki are right looking like they’re in a valley.

You might want to check VGC and the popular Ikota shopping complex out during the rains.
They weren’t developed to be under water.
OPIC Isheri and some other estates on the Lagos/Ibadan express had the same thing in common.

The major question right now is to ask ourselves “What are the city planners doing?”

We are in a rush to build houses but extremely slow to fix infrastructure later. The fix-along-as-you-build approach is very wrong.

_______

About a decade ago, I remembered the recommendation we always give to people here is to secure their property with a fence, sandfill it and leave for about 2 years before they start construction.



We no longer do this. We just want to build and fix all other sh*ts along.

Dijita:
In other word, while I may not be rich enough to buy Benz, I will wait until I have the money to buy Toyota or Honda instead of buying Hyundai now. The analogue is for the wise to comprehend

Take home!

I know cheap when I see one

EgunMogaji2:
A house is the sum of all it's parts. Whats in yours?

https://www.nairaland.com/6639981/24-escape-death-two-buildings

I’d never blame any contractor, subcontractor, supervisors or builder nor materials for failure on my personal build. I’d take full responsibility for whatever happen in my build knowing that I, the homeowner is the project director.

I pick all the pieces so I should take ownership of whatever happen.

Until we start jailing homeowners whose projects suffered collapse (whether partial of full), we won’t be able to stop this madness in our country.

The speed at which greedy and inexperienced contractors use substandard materials on largely disturbed soil to build unapproved structures in our dear country is very alarming.

Over 90% of homeowners do not have approval for their buildings (it’s a known fact) neither do they bother to invite relevant authorities (especially the sleepy ones) for stage certification and material testing.

What exactly is wrong with us?
And we are condemning China that built stackable 10 storey building in 28 hours when we are yet to perfect the construction of ordinary 2 floor building using concrete o

Sigh!

9 years ago...

brabus:
RAINY SEASON OR DRY SEASON?

Houses can be built in any weather. The key to successful building in extreme weather conditions is getting the foundation installed and the house up out of the ground before the rainy season.

- Get an experienced team with experience to handle extreme conditions.
- When you mix concrete and fill structures in the rain and don't make efforts to cover it, it will definitely wash out and lose certain quality
or strength.
- Protect the soil so that rain doesn't wash it off.
- Work under a shed, cover or tarpaulin during rainy season.
- Get meteorological information for the period of construction.

I shared this 9 years ago. Still very relevant!

brabus:
Construction Woes: Who is to blame?

Everybody!!!

The Developers: whose primary duty is to engage certified professionals as consultants but failed to do so largely due to an unhealthy profit motivation.

Consultants: the so-called professionals/consultants whose duty is to advise their client on the various aspects of the project and to ensure that due process is followed during the entire project cycle but have failed to honestly advise clients on the pitfalls of shortcuts.

Government: through regulatory bodies charged with the duty of enforcing by-laws and ensuring that any development meets regulatory building standards. Weak technical capacity in local authorities; problems in the development approval process; corruption are all to blame for the problems we experience.

Contractor: who are expected to have the capacity and competence to undertake the specific tasks for the specified scope of works.

Clients: Yes, YOU! For aiding and abetting through wrong selection. You can't claim ignorance!

Recent study conducted have revealed that unqualified people carry out more than 70 percent of the development-related activities in Nigeria.

_______

Why are most homeowners in a rush to build these days?

9 Years Ago..,

brabus:
RAINY SEASON OR DRY SEASON?

Houses can be built in any weather. The key to successful building in extreme weather conditions is getting the foundation installed and the house out of the ground before the rainy season.

- Get an experienced team with experience to handle extreme conditions.
- When you mix concrete and fill structures in the rain and don't make efforts to cover it, it will definitely wash out and lose certain quality
or strength.
- Protect the soil so that rain doesn't wash it off.
- Work under a shed, cover or tarpaulin during rainy season.
- Get meteorological information for the period of construction.

I shared this 9 years ago. Still very relevant!

brabus:
Construction Woes: Who is to blame?

Everybody!!!

The Developers: whose primary duty is to engage certified professionals as consultants but failed to do so largely due to an unhealthy profit motivation.

Consultants: the so-called professionals/consultants whose duty is to advise their client on the various aspects of the project and to ensure that due process is followed during the entire project cycle but have failed to honestly advise clients on the pitfalls of shortcuts.

Government: through regulatory bodies charged with the duty of enforcing by-laws and ensuring that any development meets regulatory building standards. Weak technical capacity in local authorities; problems in the development approval process; corruption are all to blame for the problems we experience.

Contractor: who are expected to have the capacity and competence to undertake the specific tasks for the specified scope of works.

Clients: Yes, YOU! For aiding and abetting through wrong selection. You can't claim ignorance!

Recent study conducted have revealed that unqualified people carry out more than 70 percent of the development-related activities in Nigeria.

_______

Why are most homeowners in a rush to build these days?

Some clients do not have respect for construction standards. They’re always building in a rush!

Likewise, some contractors and builders are greedy.

______

I share this thought elsewhere and I felt I should drop it here. We can’t just continue with the blame game, we need to find a lasting resolve.

n3xt:
I’d never blame any contractor, subcontractor, supervisors or builder nor materials for failure on my personal build. I’d take full responsibility for whatever happen in my build knowing that I, the homeowner is the project director.

I pick all the pieces so I should take ownership of whatever happen.

Until we start jailing homeowners whose projects suffered collapse (whether partial of full), we won’t be able to stop this madness in our country.

The speed at which greedy and inexperienced contractors use substandard materials on largely disturbed soil to build unapproved structures in our dear country is very alarming.

Over 90% of homeowners do not have approval for their buildings (it’s a known fact) neither do they bother to invite relevant authorities (especially the sleepy ones COREN, CORBON, NIA etc) for stage certification and material testing.

What exactly is wrong with us?
And we are condemning China that built stackable 10 storey building in 28 hours when we are yet to perfect the construction of ordinary 2 floor building using concrete o

Sigh!

Wish2Die:
Hot Rolled Deformed Bars. But na old price oh!

I was about to ask you to supply 200 tons

kopell:
When many of you guys new fixing conduit pipe blockage is a serious problem, do any of you think out of box to find solutions to most of your designs to have easy access to some routes of the pipeline without breaking the walls ? Sorry the question is for Brabus jare.

Baba plumbing line no be waste bin na.

When we talk about some of this small challenges, I just laugh atimes because they are nothing compared to the projects I’ve worked on several years ago.

We hardly talk 40 toilets project here.
Attached below is M/E and smarthone integration plan from one of the popular mega structures in Ikeja, Lagos that we worked on in 2007. It has over 150 toilets

keemzy1:
Is this a new project altogether (XX8 Trillion)

Yes.

jabolo:
We're on the same page then. From your perspective as a service provider, it must be shocking that unless the client micro-manages the contractor (to the last nail, to the last drawer slider), most of them will use what they will get away with.

One other thing that might come as surprise here is that I used MDF as a base for my drawer but with the help of a clear non-slip waterproof drawer liners installed, the MDF base are still intact as if it was recently installed.

I bought the liners with just less than 7k back then.

I saw a damaged kitchen cabinet at a client’s place sometimes ago and I’m like “Wow! This is very terrible.”

n3xt:
Runs to kitchen

I’ll brb.

@jabolo

When it comes to a certain part of my projects, I prefer the owner make their pick.

Here’s pics of my minimalist kitchen installed 8 years ago. I just checked the drawer pull and sliders and they’re still very good.

I was filled ecstasy seeing the brushed nickel finished drawer pull still shining after many years until I saw pic 4 which was picked by my installer
It was then I remembered I picked the most of the drawer sliders myself and even kept some spares for other projects.

The original drawer sliders that I picked myself ones have well lubricated bearing.

______

Pic 1 - During install in 2013
Pic 2 - Brushed Nickel Pull
Pic 3 - Drawer Slider with Lubricated Bearing
Pic 4 - Rusty Drawer Slider

jabolo:
The problem is that price is not always commensurate with quality. It is a matter of luck that you end up with a concentious service provider and I have my eye on a few of them here.

Alas, the Nigerian environment encourages (nay, rewards) as much corner cutting as you can get away with in my experience.

Being brought up in a certain way, I don't haggle too much on pricing upfront because I understand living has to be made. I certainly don't compromise on quality. I'd like to think I'm no mugu too lol and it's not a matter of death in the grand scheme of things.

So, an esteemed Nairaland contractor supplied my kitchen drawers. In less than three years, all the hinges are gone (see below) ... we're having to replace them all. These hinges are normally hidden within the cabinets, they come with the job. Should I have sent them away for laboratory tests before commissioning?

#shrug

Runs to kitchen

I’ll brb.

Wish2Die:
Y16 = 6400
Y12 = 3700

Which type or brand of iron rod is this?

diordaves:
Surface piping will not stop blockage but fixing the blockage is a cinch as against conduit piping where you need to practically break down the whole structure to fix a blockage.

If we are talking leakage, I go gree but blockage? I see no difference in the approach to fix it.

diordaves:
I find the attached on Nairaland Front Page very funny, so thought I should report it here and share it with Builders, Engineers, and homeowners who are fond of doing conduit waste piping up and down instead of surface piping.

I come in peace.

And how would surface piping stop blockage? I don’t get it.

michlins:
Laser isn't going anywhere soon. It's yet to even penetrate into the market. A very handful of dealers have the machine here in Nigeria and they don't even know how to operate it to precision like the imported.

Another thing is that it's too expensive. Imagine 65,000/meter. How many people can afford it especially if the job is about 50m as it's with regular building now

It’s a matter of time. Let’s give time some time.

We share this same thought when those gigantic concrete fascia are still trending. How many people are still doing it today?

It’s not even up to a decade yet and it’s already becoming antiquated.

megacontrol:
Just know that it won't be a new business entry into the industry.

A few of those companies already exists at different levels in the industry, particularly in the Lagos market. The issue is that most can't scale and they're really not necessarily cheaper at the end of the day.

If you take a wholistic view of your project, formwork/metal shutter hire in any form is not cheaper. The thing is that people just let you the customer take a myopic view when doing comparison.

I think I came here in Dec/Jan looking for shutters to hire and offered a typical job to be used for comparison sake. In reality, i found out that the price-setters adjusted their prices upward to match the general increase in building materials. And those are shutters they've had in inventory.
We tried shutters for that stage of the project and it wasn't sustainable for the remainder. We've since gone back to buying new or neatly used plywood/marine boards.

They are also not always neater than your plywood. Some deformed shutters leaves you with bulge worse than planks.

The term “cheap” is relative though and I know you know that.

If I may ask how do you measure the money value of the time saved using shutters.
Even giant construction companies do hire almost everything.

How much does it cost?

Price and cost are two different things. An average Ijebu man (my in-law) always look at the price tag not the actual cost/perceived benefits.

If nothing else, I’d think of the time value.

_______

Someone recently paid me 400k for formwork rental and guess what he was looking for marine boards worth the amount paid.

He completely forgot the huge savings he’s getting from:

- reduction in the quantity of nails used on the project.
- cheaper cost of installation and the hidden cost of deshuttering
- time it took to deliver columns per building
- quality of construction
- economies of scale
- waste reduction
- transportation cost
- cost of securing the formwork

He was only looking at the 400k paid.

Anyway, I know you know what’s in it baba. That you’re unable to get a good bargain doesn’t mean formwork hiring isn’t cheaper. The big players understand this and are seriously exploring this option.

Until we have more entrants in the business, don’t expect a major price reduction because the sector is still largely untapped.

I come in peace!

Jasobry:
Exactly.. but I need samples

There are many designs out there but I’m working on this simple ones right now.

I was shown laser cut designs but I’m not interested cause I foresee them going out of fashion in not-too-distant future