₦airaland Forum

@ Negro Nations, the notion that the Kings of Benin were buried in Ife was quite literally due to the work of Percry A. Talbot, a European, in the 1920s. It is therefore interesting to read that you don't think much of the accounts of Europeans when they recorded earlier traditions.

Just because he recorded the story does not make him the authority on it.  Let us trace the transmission link. Where did the European Talbot get the story from; who was the authority or source that this literal work should be credited to?

Egharevba read Talbot's work (among other sources) and he changed his earlier work to reflect that tradition.

Egharevba's initial work must either have been founded on a false footing or he lacked confidence in his own ability to challenge Talbot's credibility.

However, since you claim they were buried in Ife, can you tell me how members of the Okaeben buried the king of Benin in Ife? Or if not them, can you tell me who was responsible for this? Also can you tell me where in Ife they were buried?

I dont know any of these beside of course saying Orun Oba Ado.

Please don't say Orun Oba Ado, because the dates for that site are much earlier (6th-10th century) than the dates suggested for the Obas of Benin, and nothing has been found from excavations there to link it with Benin. There are other places in Yorubaland called Ado, anyway.

First, dating by who?  These datings are approximates and are not error-proof.  Has the burial grund for Lagos Obas in Bini been excavated to prove that Ado was there, or Guabaro was there or if Akinsemoyin was there?  What kind of prospect is this you are theorizing?

I have preached repeatedly that the descendants of Lamarudu are AfroAsiatic but people are stubborn and too sunk into European ideology to relate to the meaning in my message.  It will take a European writing it or showing a documentary of the facts before people shift in their belief.

Ado, Oba Ado, Olorogun Ado, Ologun Ado, Ita Ado. . . . . ADO is common amongst all Oduduwa children but what does it mean?  ADO means Lord.  Back in the days when the monarch was also regarded as God"s deputy on earth, the King enjoyed attributes belonging to God.  ADO is derived from semitic ADON; which in turn derived from ADONAI.  Same applies with AKIN, AKEN, AKHEN, such as Akinsemoyin, Akhenzua, Akinsuwa, Akinade. . . . all derived from AKHENATEN.   ATEN itself is crown or ADE.

Permit me while I digress but close enough to score a point on the topic of this post.  Tpia was right when she said the art is not just for entertainment, they have purpose and function.  It is surprising no one has asked the meaning of the discs sitting on the third eye of the Ife bronze heads.   This crown can be regarded as a classic masterpiece.  We have Egyptologists.  If we had Yorubalogists many mysteries would have been awakened and their emergence would conclusively have settled the matter once and for all where Yoruba came from.   This crown on Ife head is that of a king in the cult of Akhenaten - The Egyptian pharaoh who used the cosmic sun as a centerdness for awakening consciousness and enlightenement.

And I do not think you answered the one question (your interpretation) that I requested that you answer.

You mean if Iguegha is a Yoruba name?  I dont know if it has a equivalent in Yoruba or not but in the form and tone of its spelling, no doesnt sound likeone.

and oh, if I may add. . . .  it is just as erroneous on that same scale if a King of Lagos were to come up in future and deny Bini as the root of their dynasty; Lagos Kings were also buried in Bini.

The cross-teachings of Bronze art between Ife and Bini is a different story and I am not at all too particular about that because if you look at the two styles you can see a common signature.

However, I am particular about the Ife - Bini heirarchy. In matters of black history, forgive me but I don't give too much weight to European accounts. I am disregarding Burton's comment, whatever they may be. Prior to Omo N'Oba coming out with this version of the inter-connection no other King before him ever raise any dispute. What Kings were in Ife before Oduduwa, can anyone name them? What social structure did they have in Ife prior?

Of course our Kings are also deities and hence they are polar and opposite in attributes as in male and female, malevolent and benevolent, positive and negative. . . . . It is not a contention on the gender but a misreading of the attribute of the King as a deity.

I do not know how to erase the fact that from its conception and up until early 1900s, Bini dynasties had buried its Kings in Ife and then super-impose that of a historian narration - an outgrowth of colonialism - as the binding and accurate fact of history denying Ife as the ancestral root of Bini dynasty.

I agree with tpia, exotic has no rational argument, he is just highly disorderly and restless. I should have kept him busy with his own topic if I thought about it early on. sorry y'all for wasting the time.

Hey lakal, sorry for the derail, I should have lured the eediot away from here long ago instead of going back and forth with him on your thread. Please forgive me brother.

Exotic, come on in and educate us on what we do not know about igboukwu art.

For those of us who do not know, What is Igboukwu?

Im going to open a new topic specifically for you to teach igboukwu art. Lets see what igboukwu is made of since you are so adamant on your s t u p i d r-e-tard-ed statements. Come and make a fool of igbo culture on this new topic if you dare!

Except for Egharevba's decision in his later edition of his famous book to claim that somebody named "Iguegha" was from Ife, I do not think this claim would have been continuously repeated.

Physics,

Did you actually say this?   Isnt that the case with Omo N'Oba's claim that Bini begot Ife?  His ambitious remark has been repeated and falsely constituted into a new history, one departed from the acknowledged ancestry of his forefathers from Ife.

i just hope some chauvanistic 1d10ts will not tribalize this into "yoruba this & yoruba that, blah blah blah"
it's funny that it had to take oyibo's ,documentary to tell us about our history. oyibo is making all effort to uncover knowlege while we are doing our utmost best to distance ourselves from our history & knowlege of old, saying they are demonic ways that should be destroyed & never remembered.

XYZ,

Great insight!!

Great art and history. . . . I love that hairdo on the Iyoba.

Your igboukwu ass is cluthing at straws to legitimize an irrelevant piece of art. Yes, you are definitely correct that when you use someone or something as prop they are in secondary supporting role and not the main theme or the focus. Igboukwu was not the focus but was put there to support the discredit of European claim of uniqueness in the style. It was not there to support Head of Ife. In other words, it supported an argument but not the art.

Does that sink in to your d u m m y brain matter now or would you still like to cluth for more straws?

Exotic,

With your response you have shown that you are a easy bait. It was a trap to disarm you, not to ease off on my attack.

Your response to the questions is a followup in concession to what lakal, rgp and myself have told you in numerous posts that igboukwu was used as a prop for the story - a way of saying brass art is a surplus in Africa and not an exclusive of Greko-Italian dominance.  In Africa, everyone has brass art, look, even igboukwu is not left behind!

To erase any doubt, I pointed you to the map showing the stream of Imperial civilization in Nigeria and this igboukwu you claim is blank on that map.  How could you not be on that map if you had any weight of influence in Brass art?

Your brothers said their light skin and ingenuity for producing fake and substandard mechanical parts qualify them to be in the league of Jewish family.

Now you are claiming that your igboukwu substandard art qualify you to join the league of civilized Empires but the museum say no, you are just a prop for presenting backdrop to Imperial history.  You need to go argue your case with the museum and leave Oduduwa children alone.  You are making a fool of your Igboukwu history, whatever that is.  You should face to East and tell the Cameroonians how great you are.  The West does not recognize your Igboukwu.  Sorry!!

Anyway, I suggest you look in the BBC documentary before you leave.

How many did the guy say there were?

3 million! They have lived there for 900yrs.

Yes. Thats what it is. Mortality! In a way, it symbolizes cycle of life. In Yoruba philosophy or cosmic awareness, everyone grounds himself or herself except the King. The King is immortal!!

"Igbo-Ukwu brasses, one is of an elephant head, and those are about a thousand years old, and they prove that this was an autonomous African tradition"

the significance of that statement are:

1) they are older – meaning igbo-ukwu had the knowledge before ife
2) they prove that it is an indigenous tradition.

Brass is a free metal and no particular race own it ecxlusively. So you cannot say Igboukwu had Brass Ife did not, therefore Ife got brass from igboukwu.

right or wrong? Answer that first and you have solved half the problem with your sour hatred.

The other half you can solve with this: igboukwu art is sub standard to Ife art and they are not of the same style and genre. Do you disagree?


Influence and power has nothing to do with age. There were many indigenous people on the land before Oduduwa arrived, in timeline their culture and native customs were older but yet they ended under the influence and sovereignty of Ife. Do you dispute this?



When you finish resolving these questions you speak up and let me know how igbo ukwu can claim sole ownership to brass or equate itself to the genre of productions in this artwork or infact use age as a measure of influential power.

Im waiting to hear what chief of igboukwu has to say on this.
.

Did you complete the youtube assignment? Report what you found.

Rgp and lakal have both given you the reason, I have also pointed you to the map evidence, I dont know how many more people it takes to sink it in your embittered spirit that

1. the association was to point to the fact that this knowledge of craft is not exclusive to Europe as had previously been preached. This reference was a demonstration, as to say . . . . . ."in fact, look, even a low and insignificant one among our indigenous peoples, Igboukwu, has the knowledge.". That reference was not to demonstrate parity or alliance or influence of any sort between the Imperial Ife and igboukwu. To further support that igboukwu is no non-entity, the map clearly illustrate where to look for parity at tat level of high civilization - igboukwu land was a blank.

You baboon started jumping for joy - yeee, yeee, look, they showed igboukwu art on tv, they showed my people. ode! To put everything in perspective for you, on the scale of Ife civilization and power, igboukwu is not even qualified to sit on that majestic foot stool shown in the video, much more to influence a village. How many people on your way to Ife did igboukwu influence?

You dont have shame! igbo ukwu ko, igbo goma ni!

You are worse than a retard.

There is no connection between Yoreuba and Igbo Ukwu. The video you based your claim on was firm on that when it showed the map of Nigerai and laid the path of cultural inter-link between peoples and civilization and Igbo ukwu was not anywhere on the map. Where igbo ukwu would be is a blank field! What else do you want to prove on your bullcrap story of influence?

Type igbo jews in youtube and watch the video of your btothers making a flagrant fool of themselves and your tribe. Then type Yoruba jews and see what comes up, same igbo wanna-be's trying to force the world to see them as Jews. Type Hausa jews and see what comes up. . . . same fools! What does that tell you?

Mumu!!

Tpia,

These are great pictures and angles on that crown.

On the #4 with his co-joined legs, yes you are correct thats what it is in meaning. I don't know if anyone else noticed but there is a common theme in all of them.

These are my takes from a general perspective and you already touched on some of them:

1. Imperial coins and control (Government and taxation - SOCIETY).
2. Sovereignty and consciousness (Dominion power and universality of mankind - HUMANITY)).
3. Cult and mysticism (priesthood and awakening - DIVINITY)

lakal,

I noticed that the Museum curator did not use the full figure of the Ooni to narrate the artwork, instead he used the half torso figure. That's unusual.

Also, considering the value and significance of this art as a historical record of cultural civilization, I encourage that the art be given a dissected interpretation here. I suggest someone talk to the meaning of the regalia and the instruments on this art in relation to the person of the Ooni and his throne.

Anyone want to educate us on this art? What do the items on the crown stand for, why are the priests co-joined and why the three legs on #4?

There is no Yoruba that believe we descend from Israelites or Arabs.  I have said plenty times and I continue to believe that the Yoruba tongue is not indigeneous, it is Old Hebrew.  I also believe that individual sovereigns within the Yoruba commonwealth were co-locators and co-migrators with Lamarudu from Canaan, Yemen, Axum and indeed Nubia towards Kanem and South westward into Old Oyo before they spead southward toward the coast.  Yoruba is proto-semitic and not a descent of any of the modern day semitic at all but indeed an independent sovereignty and race with its own social structure and belief system.

Were there pre-existing natives on the land before the Lamarudu footprint, yes definitely there were but the arriving peoples' culture and customs became dominant culture and philosophy of what is today the Yorubaland in Nigeria. 


This is different from the Igbo perspective which continuously believe and claim descent from Jews.  It does not matter if you said it or someone else said it, the fact that majority of your people believe and pursue that association with a Jewish ancestry makes it equally true and applicable for you as a member in that social group. 

Fool, let us know when you find your Judea.

Awww, c'mon, we prostrate for you everytime you open your legs.  We never complain!!

What's the big deal with going on your knees when we stand in front of you?     No cheating, just do it!

lakal, continue to post jare.  May God Bless you for these enlightenement.   Exotic should sit down and learn from this Majestic throne, instead his bad belle no let am rest.

lakal,

I apologize for the diversion. I do not tolerate these fools here with their history re-writes.

Exotic, did you see your fatherland in that map? Did you see Igbo ukwu on the map? Na God go punish your land. I go spit tobacco juice for ya eye next time you say something ignorant about Ife or Bini. Efulefu!

Tpia,

These discussions are enlightening for many people and we should keep it that way instead of arguing over which is appropriate way to interprete words. I prefer to say tongue than to say language when referring to our native way of speaking. There is a good reason for that and it connects with the approach you are using now.

To me, language is a scientific description of the process and mechanics of HOW a people construct and speak words, it is not a study of the substance or spirit of WHAT they mean or intend with the sound of the spoken word.

I have said Yoruba native tongue, or language if you prefer, contains a lot of formula for addressing needs in both aspects of consciousness and unconsciousness. Spoken word is SOUND. Sound is not made in the brain and therefore cannot belong with logic. It belongs in emotion. No one can deny that music is a very beautiful art with many social and therapeutical benefits. But Sound is even a higher and much more exalted essence than music with all its beautiful melodies. All words expressed by the tongue originate in the heart - the abode of emotions.

When I write ikun'le in isolation, with no context or interpretation associated, it looses its sense of meaning. This is so because it is void of sound. To give it sense I will need to make extra effort at elaborating and clarifying my intention. Sound does not require that. Let's look at it closely. Ikun'le and ikun'le!

I mean different things but can you tell which is what? I am sure you cannot. One is ikun'le - full house and the other is ikun'le - kneel down. In tonal sound and vowel the last e cis the differentiator, everything else is the same between the two terms. Ikun or kun is a common thread between the two. I said kun is a Yoruba formula for BEING or PRESENCE. Adekunle, Olakunle, Ibikunle (Housefull of princes, Housefull of wealth/prosperity, Housefull of children respectively). Would you say this kun meaning FULL or PRESENCE has a different root source than the kun in ikun'le which means BE or PRESENCE?

We should be moderate in how much we apply European style analytics to our native legacies. We can tolerate having Western styled expertise on our language but we should resist and deny the scrutiny of our native tongue and natural sound with the instruments and tools of empirical analysis. Sound itself as a subject of discussion is a totally whole branch of our being that I could talk from now till the next twelve months everyday sharing something new and yet never finish unveiling the full spectrum of it. But let me share for now that our tongue and its sounds belong to our ancestors, the legacy of their own spirit is imbibed in it and buried in our emotions.

E k'aro o; e k'abo o; e ku'le o; se dada ni o. . . . . . . . . what is the relevance of the ending O? It is yet another formula. "O" is the Yoruba signature for cosmic soundwave. It is the most common and widespread but not the only one we use, we also have 'FA".Difference race has its own signature. "Om" is the soundwave for the mystics of China and India; "Hu" is the soundwave for the mystics of Arabia. These people say Om or Hu many times in chants on a daily basis. Yorubas say "O" just as much but in an unconscious and inattentive way. When you curse someone and out O at the end you send it out to the cosmos as a soundwave but it carries a formula that is hidden from ordinary people. Similarly when you bless someone with an O ending it carries this same formula to the cosmos. Makes sense to becareful how we use some of these Yoruba words, does it not? It is heavily cryptic!

Aiye a yewa O, Ashe!

Exotic, now I see where your trouble started from. Ewu!!

You saw everything else in the video but for some reason you missed the map shown in the 2:25 to 2:30 time frame of the second video. Go and replay the video and watch what they are showing then report your igbo ukwu a-s-s back over here and confess your sins. Yeye persin!

How did Yoruba and Edo emerge from Nok? I would like to better understand your assertion

Rgp, were you blindfolded when this question came up?