₦airaland Forum

Who be Igbo ukwu?? First and foremost wetin start this nonsense?

How did Igbo ukwu hop over so many other cultures with no trace of its influence and landed at Ife to start an influential art? Dude, if your leg never bow, make God bow am now now!! Anuofia!!

Nna, if I hear If_ for ya mouth one more time the __e na from ya yansh hin go take pass out. You no well!!

Exotic,

I heard it through the grapevine you were here talking nonsense about Ife. Is that true?

You see I dont work for Nairaland, I volunteer here and today is my off day from NL. So, first for even starting a trouble that gave cause for me to be here, may God hammer ya stinky yansh. Now let me go read and see whatsup. I be back.

are you sure.

You are familiar with my cultural narrations by now. Is there any time you have found my assertions relating to Yoruba roots and customs untruthful?

i think we should look at the tonal difference between ikunle, whose literal meaning is "full ground" or occupy ground [in a way], and okun, which means sea.

You are using linear logic in your approach and trying to dissect a native custom into an activity process flow. Native customs are outgrowth of the human spirit - it exists in the heart, the emotions and the soul. It is recalled into practice from legacy imprints buried into the ancestral markers of the sub-conscious. This is deeper than a DNA and far broader than an analytical brain can be wrapped around it.

the meaning of kun is not well defined yet. [btw where did you get your definition from].

Every native custom is a stream - like water, it has a physical presence an it also has a metaphysical or mystical presence. I have reached a threshold where if I explain the mystical aspect of this custom beyond what I already shared then I am divulging knowledge that do not belong in a public forum. I will point to you however that every Muslim in the world, regardless of their race or background, if they observe the postures of salat, then they share with us in this custom of idoba'le and ikun'le. I say this because GOD, in his Mercy and Wisdom, gave to Muhammed a language, a practice and a sacredness that was already in vogue and intimate within the native cultural stream of the locales, inspite of their dismissal as unbelievers.

To shed more light on that, Arabic was the same tongue spoken by the followers of Muhammad and the non-believers; salat postures were the same rites of worship used by the unbelievers to prostrate and glorify their gods; the Kaabah was a shrine temple before the unbelievers were sacked. Muslims do the idoba'le and the ikun'le just as Yorubas do. To distinguish, Muhammed established a variant of both. Mecca and Medina were provinces of Yemen and before that, of Canaan - the two primary uproots of the many tribes that today exist within the Yoruba commonwealth. So there is a shared past between the Mecca of today and the Mecca of our ancestral consciousness. We go through many practices on a daily basis, the knowledge account of which many of us are blind, deaf and dumb on.

I will give you a truly mind boggling example. A lot of Yoruba words are cryptic - they are formulas for something else in the metaphysical dimension. In other words, they act as gateways between the seen and the unseen. So let us consider something related to the topic, say the expression "Ikun'le " - translated to English, "The kneeling of motherhood". The true meaning is "The Grace of Motherhood". What does Ikun'le to do with motherhood? Plenty!!! Every human being emanates or comes into BEING through her. The symbolical posture for BEING is the kneeling position. So we can in a way say Ikun'le is a gateway for a hidden dimension to reveal or BECOME. Likewise, the mother is a gateway for the child to be born or to BECOME. Taken together, Ikun'le takes on a divine essence - it becomes a channell for communicating between the two worlds; a code!

The picture is still there. I dont need to repost just loop back to the picture if you need to.

Other Nigerian nationalities could learn from our way of prostration. Negro_Nations, thanks for the clarification. If I hadn't asked, I might not have understood the significance.

May GOD enlighten us all.  Make sure you pass the teaching on.  

tpia, you never know, the two of you might be related - and since you are curious, on mother's side!  


I went back and read all the responses, I didnt know someone was asking for the meaning of Idoba'le and Ikun'le. The two also are of semitic origin and as I already explained they both have mystical meaning, particularly that of the female in a Ikun'le position - it is very potent and powerful.  There are certain rites practiced by mystics using that position to call on GOD.

On the names, Idoba'le is a two word term.  Idoba and Ile.  Separately it is Idoba ile.  Ile means ground.  Idoba is derived from ADAB which means - practice of courtesy, right conduct, and reverence.  Ikun'le is also a two word term.  Separated, it is Ikun ile.  Ikun is derived from KUN which means - Be or emanate or unveil.


We dont need to say more on these other than to agree that they are positions of moral character to share and express respect and love for the exalted members of one's immediate family, relatives, neighbors, elderly citizens, Chiefs, Kings and as well in formal social occassions to share in harmony and rejoice with inlaws.

Oya to complete your restitution - 10 mammary jugs pluts, 21 hajiyas, 5 alhajais and one large ice-cream cake. Round it off with some ginger pepto-bismol. Go and sin no more.

U sabi me well well With this list who need a Libyan brother?

I would like to add that the respect or homage prostration does not include a kiss of the forehead to the ground. Thats the difference in the two - the distinction between worshipping GOD and paying respect to human.

Amor4ce is writing a book. He comes here to collect information.

I taked about the grounding beforein religion section. You have seen Tibetians prostrate and you have seen Muslims prostrate, You have seen Jews prostrate and you have seen orthodox Christians prostrate. The Buddhists and Hindus prostrate when they enter temple. Adherents of Ifa (Yorubas) prostrate full length with the third eye kissing the earth. It all has to do with reconciling the spiritual to the material and it is done in a symbolic way to denote 'total submission to a HIGHER will". Muslims, Tibetian monks, Orthodox and Jews all kiss the third eye to the ground. Muslims do it many times more frequently than any other worshiping group, to the point that a marker is left on the spot covering the forehead.

I think that"s good enough on that rite of prostration. It's too much on it to be understood here, besides I dont need to say more than whats already said so far. Leave the spiritual alone and focus on the moral aspect of prostration.

Lol. Still a bad boy even in the religion section?

Ooops!! U know what, I forgot.

Negro makes the sign of the Cross - Our Father who art in Heaven, forgive me as I forgive that Karmamod with razor sharp tongue.

JeSoul dear, they killed my brother in Libya, I have been mourning.

Sorry, I repeated OPHED many times but thats wrong, I meant EPHOD!

Well, let's get it simplified. Have you ever seen an old picture or drawing of a Jewish high priest? Look for one, maybe go to library and get a book on rabbinical canon and if they have illustrations of the priest you might see it in there. You will see him holding some instruments in his hands. I want you to compare them to the instruments held by the priests in #4. Yorubas dont call them Umim and Thumim, Jews do; but whatever we call them they are same instruments.

Also, I want to clarify and make sure that people know what we are talking bout here because it looks like it's getting mixed up a little bit. The Ashanti illustration is depicting breastplate, which is also a part of the high priest clothing or outfit for ceremonial rituals. The BREASTPLATE is different from the OPHED, although the one is a complement to the other.

If you look on the hip of the priests in #4 you will see what looks like a cross belt or a sash that goes diagonally across the belly area and over the chest. This sash is on both sides of the hip and if you dont see it clearly you can make out the outline of it on one of the or the other of the priests. Then you have what look like an aso-oke or OFI (another controversy - is OFI from OPHED?) wrapped around the lower body with an amulet sack dangling in front. This is the OPHED. It has sashes sewn into it and after it is wrapped round the body the sashes are thrown over the shoulders and fastened.

This style of ritual clothing is also copied by some mystical lodges and if you see a member of say, Rosicrucian or Masonic lodge in their official outfit you will notice the cross sash with a sack sitting in the front of the body with a logo or emblem print on it.

This tradition belonged to Noah/Abrahamic age of Old Hebrew.

lol@Ileke-Idi's response. I agree, Mbatuku, get it right!!!

I have a feeling that the prostrations in the Vatican that you referred to are derived from the Israelite tradition. As seen in the Bible, prostration was not limited to worship. I want to believe that the Yoruba must have a strong reason for prostrating - could the reason have been forgotten over time?

I'm searching for the roots of the words doba'le and ikun'le. I'm sure the "le" part has to do with ile (earth/ground).
Apart from king, does OBA mean royal father and/or dear father?


With regard to worship, here's what a someone contributed to my blog:

Quote
I am Eastern Orthodox and we also prostrate ourselves before the Sacrament and facing East (location of altar) during Great Lent.

The Coptic Christians of Egypt also prostrate themsleves. It is the only proper posture of those who would humble themselves before God. When in our bodies we finally appear before Christ our God none will dare to shake His hand.

Amor4ce,

Oba was seen as a proxy for GOD on earth and so he was reverenced as such. Oba itself is a derivative of semitic Aba - meaning father. From the same Aba or Abba root, we get Baba - also meaning father. From that same root we get Kabiyesi - a honorific greeting of exaltation.

So you have OBA - the father of the community or tribe or race, who because of his exalted position is greeted as KABIYESI. Then Baba, which is the father of a progeny or a parent.

How does all these tie in with the topic?

There is a prostration/kneeling for worship and there is a different one for respect and reverence. In Yoruba culture, the prostration/kneeling for worship is a ritualistic act for grounding. ( I can share more on that if you want). This act is separate from the prostration/kneeling of greeting and paying homage - which is a moral obligation.

Papal lethargy in Vatican

How is it that no one caught and corrected me on this error. I meant liturgy. ibon, ala kokolette!

Logica, yes, thats correct.

tpia,

I am talking about name root and historical path, events of hundreds of years ago, before there was NIGERIA! I cant mix the two ages together when I talk about roots.

When we pray for our own self we are not even sure GOD will grant it and for most part HE delivers to us something different than we prayed for. So how is it that our curse on others are sure to come true and GOD granted?

The curse is not about a bad spell but rather a call to GRACE. The tongue is very powerful but there is a mystery behind its power. I'm not going to explain but I wil give a hint.

In human anatomy every part that is attached to the will is also paired and opposite except for three parts - the HEAD, the TONGUE and the REPRODUCTIVE PART. The head is a chakra end with an invisible rope linking heavenward and the reproductive part is a chakra end with an insible anchor tying to the earth. The head is the spiritual, the reproductive is the material. So what is the tongue?

because nupes are traditional enemies of the yoruba.

where did you get this? Nupes were Yoruba allies in the times that I am making reference to.

I am positive!!

How did Tapa even begin to serve in the army of a Yoruba sovereingty to begin with? It's because of the shared customs and affinity. This is like askin if Akin is a Bini or Yoruba name.

Prostration, in any race of people, is an act of worship. Kneeling, in any race of people, is also an act of worship.

I can throw more light on this if you want but for a start I need you all to watch any video of royal coronation or honorary conferrement of title in England or anywhere in Europe. You will see kneeling. Now, I also want you to watch any video of the Papal lethargy in Vatican and you will see prostrations.

I shouldnt be using Europe to establish proofs but my experience has shown that many Nairalanders will only believe in things endorsed by the white man. So if seeing whiteman/woman kneel and prostrate makes it a honorable act, then it is a honorable act for the Yorubas.

Good response!

Let us assume that it is not a general Yoruba name but popular with the Ijebus, then it even makes it more authentic as a semitic root name.  The Ijebus are one of the core Afro-Asiatics within the Yoruba commonwealth.  You will be surprised at the number of shared rituals between the Ijebus and Judaism generally.  Not because they descended from Children of Israel but because they were the sacked landowners from Canaan and the children of Israel ended up intermarrying and practicing their rituals and customs and it got funnelled into Temple worship and rituals.

Jakande is not a Yoruba name. Neither is Oshodi.  The two are Tapa name and not Kwara.  They were in the calvary unit of Old Oyo.  Its an old history but a great one. The two ended up as army generals for King Kosoko inhis battle against British invaders into Lagos in 1850.  As part of settlement and peace accord, they were instituted as high Chiefs.  This is how igunu became part of Lagos also - igunu is a Tapa tradition and ritual.

Amor4ce,

Regarding that sketch, there are two important things to consider.

1. who drew the sketch ?

If it was done by a white man illustrating his surface experience of Africa and Africans, then it should be taken in the same general regard to their written record of Africans.

If it was done by a black man illustrating the oral history and traditions of a people, then it has greater authenticity and can be taken as part of historical collection.

2. in Nigeria there were three Empires - Oyo Empire, Bini Empire and Bornu Empire. The three are inter-related and share root source. Therefore rituals, customs and traditions will not too be different.

When you look at Ashanti, it was a break-off from Sudan. So I am not surprised to find an Ashanti or a Songhay or a Massina priest wearing ephod.

I want to raise a controversy and declare that Epha, Ipha, Ifa, Eepha are all the same and derived from ephod.

Dabiri is actually "DABIR" or "DABIREE".

Its semitic origin and mean TEACHER.

Gbadamosi is another one of such semitic name origin.

To the person asking about JAKANDE, it's TAPA name.

Lakal, thank you for the picture set in thread # 1 – the Ife busts in the very beginning after the original post.

They are: 1 and 2 - head busts; 3 - torso bust; and 4 - full body cast.

Where did you get the 3 and 4? I have spent years looking for the 4. I saw it long time ago and saved it but lost it with other archived materials in a stolen laptop and could never remember the source for a replacement. God Bless you for bringing it here!

This picture #4 is very interesting.

Nothing says so much and so powerfully to give Yoruba a foothold in the Old Testament (Torah) as this art has done. To those who may not know, this is a high priest in full ritual regalia wearing the Ephod and holding the instruments of authority or divination power (oracle). It also confers the royal sovereign as an extension of that authority or Divine throne (Arsh! - which is where Ashe comes from).

Taken as a whole, the piece clearly depicts the male/female attributes of the GOD-HEAD.

Israel is doing to others what was done to it by Nazi, or rather. what it has always done throughout its history as a people.

Seems you forgot that pdp is an extension of the military era.The same people that spoilt nigeria are still the ones controlling the party,so what do you expect from such party ? Obj,ibb,ty danjuma,atiku. .is there any hope if these people still exist in pdp ?

Bluetooth,

In Nigeria, you can clean out corruption in two ways:

1. bloodhsed - in which you eliminate an identified number of people to send a message
2. electoral system - in which you vote in a pre-identified number of candidates with proven record of accountability.

For both 1 and 2, there is a challenge.  The problem of corruption is so broad and so sunken into our national spirit that the elimination list will cover the entire national political hierarchy. After you are finished with 1 there will be no one of political savviness and experience left with which to fill the candidate list in 2.

We have Fashola as a transformational leader and bad leaders such as Bankole, Akala and Daniel are being held accountable.

Thank you nLT,

We need more Governors to do that at their level of accountability. As the grassroot refines itself, an upward reconciliation will emerge and the corrupt ways will incrementally be replaced by a more committed spirit to serve and uphold.

@topic,

God commanded "WORSHIP", not "religion". Religion is a veil, it is a discrimination barrier to identify who belongs within the fold of an identified coalition, the "US" syndrome! Those within the US membership receive privileges that must be denied to others. WORSHIP serves mankind but religion serves members of US.

@topic,

They exist as paired opposites of good, paradise and so on - it's a paradox and without there will be no emanations of energy and elements. Without energy and elements there will be no life.

Beaf, that label is a good fit. It's a classic dramatization of adorning the swine's neck with a garland of pearls. A ruined outcome!

Ive said it many times - The leader we get is a reflection of the majority. To get a leader we are satisfied in we must first reform our own selves and outlook on civic discipline. Nigerian leaders are undisciplined because, first, the general populace is itself undisciplined.

Mod, please move to FOREIGN AFFIRS SECTION. This is a showcase of a foreign government's business.

Revolution to replace the present with what ??  

You cant revolt just for reformation sake; there needs to be a better solution replacing the old, not just as an ideal but also as a practice!

"Am not here to advocate anything,am just wondering how igbos sharing the same DNA as Hebrews, but i have read so many articles about igbo/ Jews stuff and asked igbo historian men in igbo-land about the connection with us and Jews and they told me that Yes their is cultural similarities but they don't know when and how,but they have seen some Jewish people from isreal in places like Nri and some other towns and villages searching for evidence to see if igbos are one of the lost tribe of isreal, and found things like circumcision eight days after the birth of a male child, separation of men and women during menstruation.

It is possible that Igbos descended from Jews. The circumcision and menstrual separation will not pass the link test as almost all tribes in West Africa were known to circumcise boys. Men and women belong in different social groups traditionally and so the separation is inherent within cultural and family lifestyle anyway. To establish credibility you should find some unique rituals thats exclusively common between Igbo and Jews outside of any other African group. Those two you gave will not work for the story.