₦airaland Forum

Steep:
Before I proceed, answer these question
1. Are you equal to God?
2. If you are God then you should be worshiped as God?
3.. Are those who worship saints like Mary and the rest wrong or right?

The Bible says anyone fathered by God is equal to God. (John 5:18). I believe it, and that settles it. I am equal to God. God and is children are equal. They are all Gods. None is lower than the other. They are all Deities.


A God is an object of worship. Gods are meant to be worshipped. If you can't be worshipped, you are not God. I accept worship as God.


Anybody who is fathered by God is God and thus qualified for worship.

Steep come over let's debate.

The Bible proves clearly that a child of God is God.

Let's see the relevant scriptures.

John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

The above scripture stated clearly that anyone fathered by God is equal to God.The Jews rightly held this notion. Neither Jesus nor the Bible disprove this notion.

We know for certain that a child of God is fathered by God.(See John 1:12-13, James 1:18.)



John 10:30 I and my Father are one. 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

In this scripture the Bible is saying any man who says God is his father is saying that he is God. This is the notion held by the Jews. Jesus, in latter verses confirmed that this notion is correct. The Bible also did not disprove this notion.

Since a child of God is born of God ( See John 1:13, James 1:18), he has a right to call God his father. Therefore, he has a right to say he is God.


So, this is an incontrovertible fact: a child of God is God because he was fathered by God.


The Jewish leaders would not believe that Jesus was God because he was a man. They wouldn't believe that God fathered him. So, they went about plotting his death and did not stop until they killed him. Similarly, some groups of persons in this generation would not believe that children of God are Gods because they are men. These people are no different from the Jewish leaders who killed Jesus. They are going about "attacking" children of God who say they are Gods. They are like thier fathers- the Jewish leaders. Were they to be alive during Jesus' days, they would have been at the fore front of killing Jesus.

Steep:
call it argument or whatever, the fact is your heresy has being exposed.

Going by you, Catholics that worship Mary and saints are right.

If your intention is to expose my so called heresy, please by all means go on.

But please do so coherently and intelligently.

Don't say I said what I did not say.

Don't say I said Theos refers exclusively to Jehovah God when I said no such thing.

Don't say that I said spirits are Gods when I said no such thing.

Stop using Theos and Elohim to prove that a child of God is not God when I never used them to prove that a child of God is God. I only used them to point out that the translators erred when they failed to capitalize gods as seen in Psalm 82:6 and John 10:34.

Stop trying to start a new arguement with me on whether or not man is a spirit. Whether man is a spirit or not, does it change the fact that a child of God is born by God? I have maintained here that any one born of God is God. How does not being a spirit contradict that? If you want to debate on whether man is a spirit or not, create a new thread and mention me on that thread so that we can thrash it out.

Stop trying to start a new arguement with me that the old man is the flesh. Whether the old man is the flesh or not, does that change the fact that for there to be a new creation there must have been an old creation? Does that change the fact that if any man is in Christ he is a new creation- a replacement for an old creation? If you want to debate on whether the old man is the flesh or not, create a new thread and mention me on it to thrash out that topic.

Please keep up the good work of exposing my heresy. Don't stop now.

[quote author=Steep post=116036857]Do you know they all have functions? And that their functions depends on how they are used.


In acts 7 vv 40, the word theous was used to describe the idol Israel commanded Aaron to make, same word that was used in John 10:34,35.

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Words have function and their meaning depends on a lot of factors which also include the intention of the writer, especially Greek word.
The use of theos or theon does not mean it should be interpreted as "God" same thing with elohim

Satan is also called the God of this world.

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

The word "god" there is "theon" so does that mean Satan is God? Certainly not.

What is going on here? Can you please tell me exactly what is going on here? Are you just out to win an argument with me and no more? If all you are doing is to just to win an argument with me, then you are wasting your time. I am here to enlighten you with the word of God and help Christians who are following this thread to realize from the word of God that they are Gods. You cannot win someone who is not in a contest with you.

Where in my previous post did I say that Theos is used exclusively for Jehovah God ?

I said the following in my last post:

The problem with English translators is that anytime the word Theo was not used in reference to Jehovah God, the render it as "a god" or "gods" to show a distinction. This gives English readers the impression that the word in that context refers to a lower God. That is not the intent. That is why Theo is always capitalized in the original text. You may consider other Gods lower to your God, but the worshippers of those Gods do not think so.

Does the above suggest that I believe that Theos is always used in reference to Jehovah God?

It appears to me that you are just running around trying to win an argument. My counsel to you is this: stop trying to win an argument. Whatever I say follow it up with your spirit and not with your brain. Study the quoted relevant scriptures. If they make scriptural sense to you, accept them. Don't close your spirit to the truth because you want to win an argument.

You are the one who is trying to obfuscate things by arguing all over the place. Originally I made mention of Theo and Elohim to explain that the translators erred when the translators translated Theo as gods in John 10:34 and Elohim as gods in Psalm 82:6. My point is that in the original text the word Theo was capitalized , so it is misleading to translate it as gods instead of Gods. I also said the word translated in Psalm 82:6 is Elohim and that it is the exact same word that was translated God in Genesis 1:1 and that so it was wrong to translate it as gods instead of Gods in Psalm 82:6. You replied by trying to correct me. You said the Greek does not make a distinction between God and gods. I said no. You said I should bring scriptural proof. Which I did. Also you tried to correct on my mention of Elohim that Elohim is not used for God alone that it is used for jugdges and one other thing that I don't remember now. I said no, and challenged you to bring scriptural proof . The implication of me saying those words should have been capitalized in their translation in Psalm 82:6 and John 10:34 is that I believe that a child of God is as much God as the Father and the Son. He is not a lower God. No where did I suggest that Theo is not used in reference to other deities. It was you who came from the blues and said the word translated gods blessings in John 10: 34 is theoi and not theous. I never really understood your intention nor the relevance of that revelation to the discussion. I thought the difference in spelling was getting you confused, so I thought to help you understand the cases of noun in Greek. The word God does not necessarily refer to Jehovah God. It simply means deity or a divine being or object of worship. The Father is a Deity, Jesus is a Deity, the holy Spirit is a Deity, the children of God are Deities. There are other Deities out there. I may not believe in them, but to their worshippers, they are. Theos refer to Deity, whether those that Christians worship or not. In fact ancient Greece have a lot of Deities that the worshippers do not consider lower Deities. What I pointed out to you is that if Greeks wanted to point out that a god was a lower deity, they can. Thous refer to deities. It is always capitalized. Greek is not a Christian language. It is a people's language. That Christians believe other people's gods are not gods or are lower gods is non of their business.

Quit making mention of thous and elohim. I was the one who mentioned them first. The purpose for mentioning them was not to prove that I child of God is God, but to state that a child of God is not a lower God. The discussion here is on whether a child of God is God or not. Please stay on the topic. You do not, as at yet, believe that a child of God is god. So, you have no business discussion with me on whether a child of a God is not a lower God when compared with Jehovah God or not. My focus here has been God and his children and not other gods and I can effortlessly prove that a child of God is God without making reference to theo and Elohim. The use of the word God and gods, as used in the difference English translations, is sufficient enough for me to make my point. You can mention Theo or Elohim if you feel it will help you prove your point. If you must, do it with originality. Do not relate it to what I said about them at the initial because I can clearly see that you have misunderstood my intentions and are obfuscating things.

From your response, I suspect that you have forgotten what case means in Grammer. Please read up on cases of nouns and pronouns for English language. It will help you understand the reference I made to them with respect to Greek.

When Jesus called the pharisees serpents and vipers does that mean they were really serpents and vipers?

Matthew 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

when Jesus called the pharisees serpents and vipers does it mean they were really serpents and vipers?
Matthew 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Please show some intelligence. How can you you compare apples to oranges. What Jesus was saying there is clear to all and sundry. it is not something open to interpretation or debate. Psalm 82:6 is not clear to all and sundry and as such open to interpretation and debate. I have showed you several scriptures from several translations to help you understand it. Study them.

now you are talking of intent but missed it all along for Psalm 82.
Let me tell you, Exodus 7 vv1 does not have "like God" or "as God" in it what it has is "God" "elohim". Using your logic of palm 82 then Moses was made God.

And Yähwè יָהוֶה 3068 said 559 z8799 unto x413 Möšè מֹשֶׁה, 4872 See, 7200 z8798 I have made 5414 z8804 thee an ´élöhîm אֱלֹהִים 430 to Par`ò פַּרעֹה: 6547 and ´Ahárön אַהֲרֹן 175 thy brother 251 shall be x1961 thy prophet.




So when God called Moses elohim then Moses must be elohim. When Jesus called the pahrisee serpents they must be serpents, right?

In Psalm 82:6, all translations that I know of render it as "are God". Not " Like God" or anything as such. So, the intent is clear. If you are a student of the Bible, you will believe them. They have better knowledge of the Hebrew language than you.

In Exodus 7:1 , even KJV, which I consider the least accurate, render it as "a god" meaning, " I have made you pharoah's god." From the other translations, the intent is clear.

Of course, I know that there is no article before Elohim in the original text. Unless you are a native speaker, you should also consult multiple translations. That's how to study and understand the Bible.

Let me tell you one or two things about Bible translations. There are two types of Bible translations: the word-for-word Bible translations and the thought-for-thought Bible translations.

In the word-for-word Bible translations, an attempt is made to translate the Bible one word after another, that is word by word. Also, in this Bible translation, the word order is preserved as much as possible. The disadvantage with this is that if the speaker has used any literary device like idioms, figure of speech, and so on, the reader of the translation can end up being misinformed.

In thought-for-thought translation, no effort is made to translate the Bible word-for-word, word by word or one word after the other. Also, no effort is made to maintain the word order. The translator reads the sentence and figures out exactly what message the speaker is trying to convey. They consider, the meaning of idioms, figure of speech or any other literary device used in the sentence, then they decide the best way to convey the message in the new language, say for instance, English. They figure out the intended message of the speaker and convey it. That is what I mean by intent. King James, NIV and amplified Bible are example of word-for-word translations. The best word-for-word translation out there is the amplified Bible. Good news, living Bible and New living translation(NLT) are examples of thought-for-thought translations. The modern trend now is migration from word-for-word translations to thought-for-thought translations because many have found them to be more accurate. Because the focus is not translation of words, they capture the meanings of idioms, figure of speech and other literary devices well. By just going through the original text on your own, you will not be able to tell whether an idiom or figure of speech or any other literary device has been used unless you are a native speaker. That is why it is good to also consult multiple translations.

God's seed is his word,


1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

We can see that the seed of God in a born again is a person, which is the word of God dwells through his Spirit.
It does not mean those born of God are now God.

Amplified
1 Peter 1:23
[23]You have been regenerated (born again), not from a mortal origin (seed, sperm), but from one that is immortal by the ever living and lasting Word of God.


The word translated seed in 1 Peter 1:23 is the word a spora which means reproductive seed which happens to be sperm for humans.

1 Peter 1:23 is using human reproduction to explain spiritual reproduction. It is saying, just as men reproduce children through their seed, even so God reproduces children through his seed. Men reproduce children through a mortal or perishable seed, but God reproduces his own offspring through immortal or inperishable seed. Man's reproductive seed is his sperm . God's reproductive seed is his word. In order words, God reproduces children through his word, his word is his sperm.



The word translated seed in 1 John 3:9 is the word sperma from which we have our English word sperm.

Amplified
1 John 3:9
[9]No one born (begotten) of God [deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] practices sin, for God's nature abides in him [His principle of life, the divine sperm, remains permanently within him]; and he cannot practice sinning because he is born (begotten) of God.

1 John 3:9 is talking about nature. It telling us that God transmit his nature to his children by heredity through his sperm. This is made obvious by the fact that it says the most important reason he cannot sin is because he is born of God.

The bible is clear that the old man that was crucified is the flesh not spirit.
I don't know where you get your theology from, it is so wrong.

Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

I am not going to waste my time responding to this: check other translations.You are trying to start another argument.

There is no where in the Bible that says man is a spirit. Man composed of soul, spirit and body.
Man having spirit doesn't make them God, also angels are spirits does that make them God? No.
Even while God is Spirit does not mean spirits are God.

I am shocked that there are Christians who do not know that man is a spirit. I am not going to waste my time responding to this. You are trying to start another argument.

Nowhere did I say spirits are Gods. You said spiritual birth is different from physical birth. I agreed with you and even showed you a scripture that support your assertion and tried to help you understand it. You started picking up another argument from it. I am not going to waste my time helping you to understand any new biblical concept again. The topic of discussion here is whether a child of God is God or not. I will advise you to stay on topic. You seem to be jumping here and there trying argue about anything I say even when it is unnecessary or unrelated.

2 Cor. 5:17 tells us that if a person is in Christ, he becomes a new specie of being that never existed before and thus has no past. It further tells us that old things pass away and that ALL things become new.
First, that there exist a new creation means there was an old creation. A new is a replacement for an old.
Second, we know from experience that when a person gets to be in Christ, no old thing passes away from his body, in fact everything remains old. We also know that no old thing passes away from his mind, everything remains old. The foregoing makes it clear to us that the man mention in 2 Cor 5:17 is the spirit. It is he who becomes a new creation. It is he who becomes a new specie that never existed before. It is in him that old things passes away. It is in him that ALL things become new.

1 John 1:12-13 tells us that anybody who receives Christ becomes born of God. The human body cannot become born of God at an old age neither can the human mind become born of God. That means it is the spirit that becomes born of God. Only the spirit experiences a new birth only the spirit becomes a child of God and that spirit has the life and nature of God.

I never said a spirit is God. I did say that anyone born of God is God. Meaning that only spirits that are born of God are Gods.

Remember, stay on topic. Stop running around trying to argue with me. Open your mind and learn. We are discussing whether a child of God is God or not.

By the way, I am surprised that after my last post you still have anything to say to me after I clearly explained things to you with relevant scriptures and from several translations. You have said absolutely nothing in this your last post. You were just splitting hairs.

[quote author=Steep post=115970408]in John 10 vv 34, Jesus said they were called called "gods" the Greek word was theous not theou.

In Greek, a noun has up to nine or more different cases with each case having slightly different spelling but all referring to the same noun. Consider an example below.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The first word that was translated God in the above verse is the Greek word Theon while the other is Theos. They are two different cases of the Theos which refers to God.

However, what Jesus was saying was that, if people who recieved those words were called gods, then he could be called God in a much greater way. Jesus was saying he is more qualified to be called God than those people. It does not mean they were really God.

Why would God call them Gods if they are not Gods. What exactly do you take God for? A joker? A liar? A deceiver? God called them exactly what they were-Gods. The succeeding verse to PS 82:6 corroborate it.


KJV
Psalms 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. 82:7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

NIV
Psalm 82:7
[7]But you will die like mere mortals;
    you will fall like every other ruler.”

Good news
Psalm 82:7
[7]But you will die like mortals;     your life will end like that of any prince.”

NLT
Psalms 82:7
[7]But you will die like mere mortals
    and fall like every other ruler.’”

Clearly, God did not believe they were mere mortals.

Iet us see, what it means for men to be called elohim in the old testament.
The first man to be called Elohim was Moses
In exodus 7 vv 1.

Exodus 7:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

The literally interpretation of "a god" is elohim which was used in Psalm 82.

However what does it mean?

Exodus 4:16 And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, even he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him instead of God.

This explains perfectly what it means for men to be called God. It means one who represent God.

One of the problem that people who are not native speakers face when they read a translation is that they often miss the intent. In the scripture you quoted God was not calling Moses Elohim. Consulting other translations will help you understand the intent.


Amplified
Exodus 7:1
[1]THE Lord said to Moses, Behold, I make you as God to Pharaoh [to declare My will and purpose to him]; and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet.

NIV
Genesis 7:1
[1]Then the Lord said to Moses, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet.


Good news
Exodus 7:1
[1]The Lord said, “I am going to make you like God to the king, and your brother Aaron will speak to him as your prophet.

NLT
Exodus 7:1
[1]Then the lord said to Moses, “Pay close attention to this. I will make you seem like God to Pharaoh, and your brother, Aaron, will be your prophet.

Clearly God was saying Moses will be like God to pharoah.

calling men gods, does not make them God.

True, but if God calls you God, then you are God. Whatever God says is, is.

yeap the logic is flawed.
Jesus was not claiming he is a god like them but rather he is a God more than them, note the difference.

John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

The Jews accusation against Jesus is that it was wrong for a man to declare himself God. Jesus pointed out to them that God himself had declared some men God in the scripture.So, how can he, who was sanctified and sent by God not have a right to declare himself God.

please bring a an example of where a distinction was made.

Acts 17:18 Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.

The word translated gods in the above verse is the word daimonion which mean a heathen deity. The first letter of that word was rendered in small letter in the original text.

The problem with English translators is that anytime the word Theo was not used in reference to Jehovah God, the render it as "a god" or "gods" to show a distinction. This gives English readers the impression that the word in that context refers to a lower God. That is not the intent. That is why Theo is always capitalized in the original text. You may consider other Gods lower to your God, but the worshippers of those Gods do not think so.

, it is also used for those representing God, such as the judges.

Give a scriptural reference that shows this.

can you point out where in the scripture they receive the exact nature of God, hope you know there is a difference between "the nature of God" and the " the full nature of God"? Or " the image of God" and "the exact image of God"?

KJV
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Amplified
1 John 3:9
[9]No one born (begotten) of God [deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] practices sin, for God's nature abides in him [His principle of life, the divine sperm, remains permanently within him]; and he cannot practice sinning because he is born (begotten) of God.

Good news
1 John 3:9
[9]None of those who are children of God continue to sin, for God's very nature is in them; and because God is their Father, they cannot continue to sin.

All human beings are spirits in human body, does that mean all human beings are born of God? To be born of God does not mean you become a spirit, It means the spirit of man to be regenerated to the image of God.
However, it does not mean to become God.

Man is wholly, completely and entirely a spirit. He has a soul and lives in a body. His soul consist of a will, a mind and an emotion. He is neither a body nor a soul, but a spirit. Just like God is a spirit, man is a spirit. So when God is referring to man, he is, more often than not, reffering specifically to the spirit- the real man.

2 Corinthians 5:17 tells us what happens when a man gives his life to Christ.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Note that the word man here refers to the spirit.

The word translated " new" in the above verse is the Greek word "kaino" which means a new specie that never existed before. So, when a man gives his life to Christ a new specie of spirit is created by God or, more correctly put, born by God.


Rom 6:6 tells us what happened to the old spirit which the Bible calls an man.

Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

The old spirit is crucified or killed or destroyed or gotten rid of. The person that says the sinner's prayer accepting Jesus as his lord and savior and the person who emerges from that prayer are two different persons.

Everyone that is fathered by God is God.


John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

The Jews realised natively that anyone who is fathered by God is God, yet the children of this generation can't realise that. One doesn't have to be a genius to realise that children are the kind of their father.

knowingChrist:
calling yourself God is the same as calling yourself son of God?

this is false.. and i'll advice you to see the bible as a whole and don't be a liar by breaking any part of it for a liar breaks the word of God and this is why satan took the bible out of context to tempt Jesus. If you say being a son of God is the same as God, why then did Adam and Eve eat the fruit? the serpent clearly told them that they'll be as gods if they eat. Let me explain to you pls, the serpent was telling the son of God that he'll be god if he eats. You see the difference now? Adam was created as the son of God. Sin made him god.

Also, i know you've not really read so i'll help you. The Israelites have always been a proud people and called themselves gods and this is why they refuse to obey God. Jeremiah 2:31 has them saying they're lords and will not obey God. This is why those unrepentant people who met Jesus have a funny interpretation of Psalms. Remember he was talking to the Jews in that place, the same people the bible says rejected him Sinners are gods, but if you're say you're gods then i know you're one sinner or don't have a clue of what you're saying.

Anyways, take some time to study pls. I know what you say is incorrect so i'll advice you to go into the book and stop reading the bible out of context pls. Psalm 82 is talking about judgment and God was talking to judges of the earth. Not this funny idea you have on your mind.

You have said absolutely nothing.

The Jews knew natively that if a man calls God his father,he is saying that he is God because if God were to have a child, his child will be God because children are the kind of their parents. If your father is human then you are human. If your father is God, then you are God. Jesus confirmed this belief in John 10.

John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Why is it difficult for people of this generation to realise that? One does not need to be a genious to realise this.

For your information, there are several words that are translated son in scripture. The word son does not always refer to someone born as a result of reproduction.

In you study the following scriptures you will realise that the word son refers to angels.

KJV
Genesis 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God [/b]came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.


Good news
Genesis 6:2,4
[2]some of the [b]heavenly beings [/b]saw that these young women were beautiful, so they took the ones they liked.
[4]In those days, and even later, there were giants on the earth who were descendants of human women and the [b]heavenly beings. They were the great heroes and famous men of long ago.

KJV
Daniel 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.


Good news
Daniel 3:25
[25]“Then why do I see four men walking about in the fire?” he asked. “They are not tied up, and they show no sign of being hurt — and the fourth one looks like an angel.”

Also, Adam did not want to be God. He wanted to be like God. They are two different things.The promise that Satan made Adam and Eve is shown below


KJV
Genesis 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

AMPLIFIED
Genesis 3:5
[5]For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing the difference between good and evil and blessing and calamity.


Adam was not the son of God as a result of reproduction. We are sons of God as a result of reproduction. Adam did not want to become God, he wanted to be like God.

knowingChrist:
This is a well written material. For this I'll say welldone.

However, your premises for this is incorrect and pardon me for saying this.

Jesus says the scriptures called them gods bc they had already made themselves gods by creating their own ways and taking judgment by their own hands and not the standards of God. This is what Jesus was telling and it's the context of psalm 82.

I don't know where you heard what you said but I'll advice you to study the topic again and ask yourself this: why didn't any of the apostles call us gods? Why did they refer to us as sons of God and not gods? Why did Adam who was the son of God wanted to be god?

You are making me sound like a broken record.

When a person calls himself a son/child of God, he is actually calling himself God That was the Crux of of the issue the Jews had with Jesus. All Jesus did was merely call God his father. The Jews took up stones to stone him because they knew that by if anyone called himself a child/son of God, he was by implication calling himself God. Jesus never contested nor corrected that conclusion, instead he corroborated it. Every time you call yourself a son of God, you are calling yourself God. I can tell for free that if this were back then in Jesus' days, all those Christian's who go about calling themselves children of God would get crucified like Jesus was crucified.

Calling yourself a Son of God is the same as calling yourself God. So, each time the Bible calls us sons of God, it was actually calling us God.

You said God called those people God's in Psalm 82:6 because they already called themselves God. That's not true. There is nothing in that chapter that suggest it. You write-ups are riddled with personal opinion and not Gods opinion. Since you can't wrap your mind around the fact of a child of God being God, you are going about twisting God's word with personal opinions to prove that that fact is not true.

Steep:
Psalm 82 vv 6 was speaking about Israelities Judges or rulers. Elohim is sometimes used to describe magistrates or Judges of israel and also a general word for deities.

The logic "if God begot us then we are Gods" is flawed because spiritual birth is not like physical birth, those born of God do not become Gods, this is a false teaching propagate by false teachers.

The Greek interpretation [b] does not distinguish between "a god and God".

When a man becomes born again, his Spirit is reborn in the image of God, however this does not make him God. The image means a resemblance of God not the exact.

One thing is the devil twist the word of God, when he said you shall be like God in the Garden of Eden he didn't specify in what way.

Christians share in the divine nature in things like his holiness, righteousness,kindness,love etc
This is the image of his son that is born in a saved person.

Jesus Christ's proved the correct interpretation of Psalm 82: 6 is with reference to deity when he quoted it in John 10:34. He called God his father and the Jews tried to stone him. He asked why they were trying to stone him. They told him it was because you, a man, are calling yourself a deity. His response was that there was nothing with me, a man, calling myself deity after all God had called humans deity in the scripture. Jesus' correct interpretation of Psalm 82:6 proves that a man can be God.

If you have ever read any of the prophesis of King David concerning Jesus in the Psalms. In many of them he seem to be talking about himself. Reference to them by Peter and Paul made it clear he was prophesying. Consider an example: Thou wilt not abandon my soul in hell, thou will not allow they holy one to see corruption. If you read that verse in context in the Psalm, you will conclude he was talking about himself, yet Peter, on the day of Pentecost gave the correct interpretation to mean he was referring to Christ. Similarly, contrary to the conclusion you came to on reading Psalm 82:6 in context, Jesus gave the correct interpretation in John 10:34 to mean calling men Gods.


The assertion that if God begat us we are Gods is not flawed. It was the very reason the Jews nearly stoned jesus. It was the very reason they killed him. It stood to common sense to the Jews that if God were to have a son/child, his child will also be God because all beings give birth to children after their kind. Jesus in his reaction to the Jews in John 10 agreed with then. In stead of telling them that their conclusion was wrong, he instead said their was nothing wrong with him claiming to be God.

It is not true that the Greek makes no distinction between Gods and gods. Greek language has but capital and small letters. The Greek language also has rules for capitalisation. They could have simply used a small letter in place of a capital letter in the word Theo.

The Hebrew word Elohim is used exclusively in scriptures to refer to God. If you say this is not so, then give me a scriptural verse we're it is not so. I will readily prove you wrong. I have a copy of the original text.

When a person is born again, he is born of God. He receives the exact same nature God has which Bible calls the Divine nature, that is, nature of deity(2 Peter 1:4). Also, he receives the exact same life God has called Eternal life. (1 John 5:11). If a person who is born of God has the exact same nature that God has, and the exact same life that God then he is definitely God. God has the Divine life, the life of Deity- Zoe. His children have have the Divine life , the life of Deity called Zoe. They are definitely Gods.

You said spiritual birth is different from physical birth. That is true. Bible gave us the basic difference between spiritual birth and physical birth.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Physical birth produces physical beings, spiritual birth produces spirit beings. God is a spirit, when he gives birth to children, his children are spirits ( who live in physical bodies).

My advice to you is to consult different translations and the original text often when you study your Bible. It will make things clear to you. I suggest you start with John 1:13 for a start . You will see reason to change your mind.

knowingChrist Yes Bible called Jesus God.

We see this in John 1:1
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

If you read down the above chapter you will know that the Word there was referring to Jesus.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.




We also see this in Philippians 2:5
Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:




A child/ son of God is God.
If God were to give birth to children, his children will be beings after his kind.


John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.


We are not children of God because we obey God. We are children of God because God fathered us. He gave birth to us. We came out of his loins.


John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but o[b]f God.[/b]


James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.


Children are beings after the kind of their parents. A son/child of God is God.

Note we are not gods but Gods. That was a translation error. In the original Hebrew text, what was translated gods in Psalm 82:6 is the Hebrew word Elohim. Which is the same word translated God in Genesis 1:1.


The word translated gods in John 10:34 is the Greek word Theo which is the same word translated God in John 1:1. In fact, in John 10:34, the word Theo was capitalized in the original Greek text.


What you need to ask yourself is this: " Did God father us?" , if yes, we are beings after his kind, we are Gods.

Dear Beosten, it is sad that you allowed the agents of Satan to deceive you. I can assure you that I had similar experience to yours
, but yours was nothing compared to what happened to me. Mine was way way more serious than yours. But, I stood my ground in faith and overcame them all. Today, if they hear my name they will fear.

For many months, babalawos, witches, wiizards and occultic people who are Nairalanders came at me. I heard their voices. They tried to break my spirit. They failed. They attacked me physically. I dealt with them. They threatened me. I called off their bluff. In the end I got a lot of them killed.

But one thing I discovered during the encounter is that babalawos, witches, wizards and occultic people can know things supernaturally. The amount of things this people knew about me was staggering. It was as if someone had handed a file documenting details of my life to them. But I refused to fall for the antics, tricks, and the deceit of those people. They attempted to kill me but I ended up killing millions of them. Yes, millions of them.

Please, please. You made a mistake. Please, please, retrace your steps and return back to your Christian faith.

I had decided not to visit nairaland again , if not, I would have seen your post earlier.

Below are links of the story about my encounter with them. Because of you, I will prayerfully complete the details of the account in the second thread. I had decided to abandoned it because of time, but now I will create time out of no time to finish it.

Believe me, the right thing to do is to call off the bluff of those people. You did not even face one-millionth of what I faced.

Witches, wizards, babalawos and occultic people are very, very many on nairaland and they monitor people's activities on nairaland . This site is a den for them. This I came to discover. You most probably contacted them on nairaland, just as I also contacted them on nairaland. The mistake you made was going to others for deliverance. In my own case I refused to go to any man of God for any deliverance. I faced them all alone and I overcome them. They even advised me twice to go to Adeboye or any other man of God for deleverance. I refused. I faced them alone. I had preached that it was possible for one child of God to bring the entire kingdom of the devil down. I chose to live what I preached

As you read this post, they are monitoring you to see what you will do. Don't fear them. If I can defeat them, then, you can defeat them.

1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

The above scripture was my favourite scripture that I used against them. And geuss what, it worked more than efficiently.


Below is the first link.


https://www.nairaland.com/6726214/true-life-encounter-nairalanders-witches


The second link is below


https://www.nairaland.com/6929263/details-encounter-nairalanders-witches-wizards


I trust that you will learn from my encounter and will garther courage to dump them and go back to your Christian faith.

Beosten:
In my formative years, we were three fiery brothers practising Christianity in Iwo town -- two of us very poor, but with strange will to survive. After secondary education and with nothing to live for, first among us was a talented beggar. As the second guy, my mother is late, and my father's whereabout was unknown. So, the first guy and I were living in one of the three houses I knew belonged to the father of the 3rd guy, but the father didn't care about the 3rd guy, though. The first guy is a genius in gathering monies through request for "urgent 2k" -- we lived on this for years.

Miraculously, I and the 3rd guy obtained degrees in science and administration respectively; the first guy obtained a degree in theology and became the chaplain of a university Chapel.

But those days as a fiery Christian, I lost 40% of my hearing. The last time I visited the first guy of a chaplain, he needed me to source urgent 5k for him. Just this morning, the 3rd guy called me that he has bone fractures and is receiving treatment at the Ogbomosho general hospital. He needs money at least for feeding, but none is forthcoming. Let me add that the first guy is in Baptist, I was in Winners Chapel while the 3rd guy is a Mountain of Fire adherent.

Then I joined the ministry in Winners Chapel. Oratory is still my best physical gift -- those in Winners Chapel Adeeke, Iwo in 2005 will remember me by the name Yinka. I had studied the scriptures from "paali to paali"; prayer sessions I handled those days looked like wartime events. While in the university, I was sent to pastor a new church in another town and did so successfully. But when I started full-time ministry, what you would usually call hosts of hell came banging at my door. They would tell me what would happen the following day and they would come to pass. They would tell me Mr A was at my door while I was still sleeping by 6:30am and that would be so.

Later, those spirits told me why I am on earth, and if I neglect my path, I would regret being born. They said I'm a Babalawo by design. I quickly went on overdrive binding "thoughts that may setup their selves against God's knowledge and every disobedience..." Then I would hear strange laughter of a group of persons suggesting the spirits were many. Then I traveled to see a primary school mate who is making waves as a general overseer of a church. All his prayers or deliverance made no difference.

Then voices started threatening me and commanded me to go to a village whose name I never heard hitherto saying that someone is waiting for me there. I googled the name of the town and I found it. I went there because previous messages didn't fail. I met the person and the priestess gave a stern warning that refusing to work for the gods would be a deadly decision. I accepted the calling right away.

But divination is not that easy to learn. I know someone who spent eight years on it. I became a pro within five months by some rare twists of events and within nine months, I became a full-blown Babalawo.

I'm tempted to say that Christians practice something different from what the Bible taught me. In 2020, my daughter was on life support at Bowen University Teaching Hospital, Ogbomosho. The bills were clearly beyond what my 50k salary could handle. I requested for help from the church hierarchy by calling the district pastor, and he said I should follow a correct route in channelling my request. I replied that I first of all called the area pastor who directed me and gave me his number to call. The district pastor started sounding offensive. That was why I came to nairaland and made a thread for help.

https://www.nairaland.com/5637056/meconium-aspiration-syndrome-baby

A nairalander sent a huge amount of money to me in the following thread to clear hospital bills.

https://www.nairaland.com/5641659/leave-patient-hospital-because-lack#86385594

I tendered a resignation letter in Winners Chapel in 2021 with two weeks notice. Before the notice elapsed and till today, I never heard anything from them about my resignation. But when the district church mistakenly paid a sum of money into my bank account after I had left (that money ought to be sent to the current pastor of the church) I told the accountant and he asked me to refund it immediately. While working there, I never had any history of misconduct. They treated me as though I never existed; that action reduced me to a new low, lower than the basest of animals...

The following advice is indispensable: life is not all about money; you're here on a certain assignment.



https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=5277426729005304&id=100002140864850

It's sad that you allowed the agents of Satan to deceive you. I can assure you that I had similar experience to yours
, but yours was nothing compared to what happened to me. Mine was way way more serious than yours. But, I stood my ground in faith and overcame them all. Today, if they hear my name they will fear.

For many months, babalawos, witches, wiizards and occultic people who are Nairalanders came at me. I heard their voices. They tried to break my spirit. They failed. They attacked me physically. I dealt with them. They threatened me. I called off their bluff. In the end I got a lot of them killed.

But one thing I discovered during the encounter is that babalawos, witches, wizards and occultic people can know things supernaturally. The amount of things this people knew about me was staggering. It was as if someone had handed a file documenting details of my life to them. But I refused to fall for the antics, tricks, and the deceit of those people. They attempted to kill me but I ended up killing millions of them. Yes, millions of them.

Please, please. You made a mistake. Please, please, retrace your steps and return back to your Christian faith.

I had decided not to visit nairaland again , if not I would have seen your post earlier.

Below are links of the story about my encounter with them. Because of you, I will prayerfully complete the details of the account in the second thread. I had decided to abandoned it because of time, but now I will create time out of no time to finish it.

Believe me, the right thing to do is to call off the bluff of those people. You did not even face one-millionth of what I faced.

Witches, wizards, babalawos and occultic people are very, very many on nairaland and they monitor people's activities on nairaland . This site is a den for them. This I came to discover. You most probably contacted them on nairaland, just as I also contacted them on nairaland. The mistake you made was going to others for deliverance. In my own case I refused to go to any man of God for any deliverance. I faced them all alone and I overcome thrm. They even advised me twice to go to Adeboye or any other man of God for deleverance. I refused. I faced them alone. I had preached that it was possible for one child of God to bring the entire kingdom of the devil down. I chose to live what I preached

As you read this post, they are monitoring you to see what you will do. Don't fear them. If I can defeat them them, you can defeat them.

1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

The above scripture was my favourite scripture that I used against them. And geuss what it worked more than efficiently.


Below is the first link.


https://www.nairaland.com/6726214/true-life-encounter-nairalanders-witches


The second link is below


https://www.nairaland.com/6929263/details-encounter-nairalanders-witches-wizards


I trust that you will learn from my encounter and will garther courage to dump them and go back to your Christian faith.

Pastoshizzy:
I want to expand my knowledge as regards a crucial part of the church and it's workers (Clergyhood) as a Christian.

I've had a lot of people talk about THE CALL OF GOD and all cases I've heard seems to vary. Off course it's obvious there is an increase in misinterpretation as regards the topic which can translate to frustration and falsehood as we have everywhere today.

I understand some people are not called in divinity (spiritual experience) but study and acquire certificates to be Pastors, Evangelists, Clergy Teachers, Apostles and Prophets. But I refer to people that claim to experience the call of God from God Himself.

I've had personal testimonies of my own that are extraordinary (supernatural) happenings in which I can attribute each one of them to the grace and mercy of God. Hence, my faith is enhanced through these happenings. And I must confess I wouldn't settle for less (JESUS is Lord!). So atheists..back off!

Which brings me to the question.

How do you know God is calling you or has called you to serve Him in Spirit and in truth?
Or do you know of someone close to you that can be a yardstick of genuine call from God. I and a whole lot of people ignorant of this divine experience may benefit from your contribution in several ways. Thank you.

Please I strongly advise you to always ignore whatever kobojunkie says. He doesn't understand the Bible although he sincerely believes he does. His assertions are always full of misinterpretations. What I like about him , however, is his confidence. He confidently speaks misinformation and misinterpretations. He has absolutely no regard for God's word. Most of the time, when I read his assertions, I laugh out my heart at the degree of error in them.

He doesn't know that a blessing is a supernatural empowerment to prosper and that a curse is a supernatural empowerment to fail.

He doesn't know that all children of God are also children of Abraham by faith.

He doesn't know that until Jesus died and shed his blood for the redemption of the world, nobody got redeemed and nobody got born again.

And many more...Like I do, just ignore his posts. Don't even waste your valuable time reading them.



Away from that and now to the op.
Your thread was not well captioned.

God calls people to be apostles, prophets, teachers, and evangelists; but God doesn't have to necessarily call a person before the person can be a pastor. A person can be appointed into the office of a pastor.

1 1 Timothy 3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

The Greek word translated bishop there is the word episkope which means overseer ( or overseership) which in the context it was used means pastor.

Simply put a person can desire to be a pastor and work towards it. It is very scriptural.

You need to separate a calling from an office. There is the office of a pastor, teacher, prophet, evangelist and an apostle; and there is the divine call to be a pastor, prophet, teacher, evangelist and apostle.

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

If a person is divinely called to be a pastor, prophet, teacher, evangelist and an apostle; it is his destiny to occupy the associated office.

As I said earlier, even if you are not called to be a pastor, you can desire the office of a pastor and work towards it which can lead to you being appointed into the office of a pastor. That then makes you a pastor.

So, there is a pastor by divine call and there is a pastor by appointment.


Your thread should have been captioned,"Share your experience on God calling you into ministry" instead.

seyezy:
.

I have sent you an invite.

abbey621:
The keyword here is ceremony! Are both parties competent? Were there witnesses? Was it documented, either paper, photos and/or video? If these requirements were met then no court in Nigeria would deny that the union is valid, fornication no longer exists once dowry is accepted, the rest na packaging.

This is exactly what I was telling Kobojunkie, but he maintained that only registered marriages are valid.

Thanks have a good day. Nice chatting with you.

abbey621:
There's no such thing as religious marriage anymore, it is all traditional. For you to get married in a church or by a Muslim clerics, certain requirements must be met such as parental consent, witnesses and in some cases dowry. No credible pastor or Alfa would officiate a union without one hence the term traditional or customary. Moving on, your opening sentence just stated the court will recognize it even if not registered but you contradict yourself by explaining further why it must be registered.

I know for a fact the court recognizes church and niqqah certificates without registering with the governemnt as long as certain requirements are met. Like I said to another person, the only difference between being married at a court/registry and being married in church or via niqqah is the level of protection one' gives over the other, e.g traditional allows polygamy while court registry simply does not.

So, if you just go with you relatives to the woman's house and pay dowry and do a marriage ceremony, then take the woman to your house. Has marriage not occurred? If you sleep with such a woman, are you committing fornication?

abbey621:
Most are registered, either church or the Muslim Niqqah, both issue certificates that serves as registration, of course court weddings provide more protection(Monogamy, etc) but in over 900 cases brought before the courts in the past 10 years, the religious marriage certificates was enough proof of validity.

Even if the are not registered, the court will still recognise it. BTW apart from a court the certificate issued during church marriage and Niqqah is not recognised in most paces. Until you register a marriage at a marriage registry, it is not yet registered. A marriage is deemed to be registered only and only of it is registered with the government. Those certificate issued during religious marriage just help to proof that a marriage has occurred. That certificate can then be used as a basis for registering the marriage with the government.

One more thing, church and mosque marriage are not traditional marriages, they are regious marriages. There are three types of marriages on Nigeria: court, religious, and traditional. Any of these three is valid, but each still need to be registered. Kobojunkie note the above.

fuck419:
Do you mean the guy is a bastard?

Sorry, I don't understand your question.

Kobojunkie:
Any marriage done according to legal and constitution provisions is registered. So, if the marriage is unregistered, it means it no enter. Simple.

I know of one such myself.

This will be my last post on this to you.

You can only register something that has taken place for national record purposes and to get a formal document to show people without having to resort to a court that that thing has occurred. If you don't have a formal proof you may miss such benefits unless the court comes to your rescue.

That something was not registered does not mean it never occurred.

For example, birth. That a birth was not registered does not mean it did not occur. You and I know that a person without a birth certificate will face a lot of disavantages until the court bail him out.

Another example of is death. That a death was not registered does not mean it never occurred, but without a death certificate, how do you claim the vast amount in your late dad's account.. Many deaths go unregistered.

Similarly, before you register a marriage,for record purposes, it must first have occurred. That you did not register it does not mean it never occurred. If you don't register it, you face some disavantages until the court comes to your rescue.

I have never met anyone who registered traditional marriage, but,I know that inspite of this many people which such marriage seek divorce in the court of law. If such marriages were not valid, the court would never entertain such cases.

The important point to note is this: you can only register something that had occurred, whether birth, marriage or death.

Kobojunkie:
Even your customary marriages are expected to be registered at the local government marriage offices, are they not?

They should be. Whether registered or not, a marriage done according to legal and constitutional provision is valid.

People hardly register customary marriages because you need to provide proof that a marriage occurred before you can register it. People just don't go through the stress.

I can't count the number of divorce cases of traditionarily married people I have read on nairaland. You can't end a marriage that never existed.

Kobojunkie:
You know this is another angle the OP could look into. If the marriage between his father and mother were never in fact registered, maybe OP could use that to his benefit. What do you think?

So a marriage that is not registered is not valid. There is something called customary law.

tsinzu:
You are wrong, what you are talking about is transexual which means people that have changed their sexual organs surgically. Transgender is different, these are men with full male organs claiming that they are women in a man's body or vice versa. The stupid democrats and liberals around the world are busy passing laws that allows people to have access to bathrooms and other private facilities of the opposite sex once they claim they identify as that sex. For instance, a man can wake up one day and decide that he wants to start identifying as a woman and the law says you must allow such a man access to female facilities without requiring him to surgically change his sexual organs.

You are close but not quite right. Transexuals are born hamaphrodite while transgenders are not.

joe4christ:
You're wrong ma'am. They don't have male torso. Atleast not the physical male torso. It has been medically tempered with and transformed into a female Vjay. But if such a person performs sexual gratification like lesbians do, the transgender could release semen into the lesbian female and get her pregnant. And I think that's exactly what happened here!

No you are wrong. Most retain the sex organ they were born with and only change their physical feautures like having big boobs, long hair and big ass by taking homones injection.

Elliotwaveforec:
Thanks for educating him. They were born with both organs, not their fault.

That's not true. Those born with both sex organs are called INTERSEX. TRANSGENDERS are born with one sex organ, but they change their body features to the opposite sex's feature. Most retain thier initial sex organ while looking physically like the opposite sex( like what we have in the op.). Very few change their sex organ.

Olodo24:
But transgender do change their sex organs to match their desired sex. I'm surprised this happened.....they have sperm cause that's where you can't cheat nature, but they don't have dicks

Most of them retain their original sex organ but change their body features.

Freeman911:
I'm just waiting for the new law now.
But wait o, I thought this trans don't have gbola again.

They do. They just look female with boons and ass.

osazsky:
Let's not confuse ourselves here they are hermaphroditism.they are given birth to like that it's a defect

You are wrong. Amaphrodites are called INTERSEX and not TRANSGENDERS. Transgenders are born with only one sex . By taking homone injections their body form can change to look like that of the opposite sex. Most of them retain the sex organ they were born with while very few change it.

osazsky:
not thier fault..its a form of deformity..they gave birth to them with both male and female organs..it can be corrected via surgery.. note brobisky is not a transgender but a crossdresser

You are wrong. Those who are born with both sex organs are called INTERSEX. Transgender are those who were born with one sex and change to the other sex. Most of them retain their sex organ but change their physical feautures.

An example of a transgender is a woman that has boons, ass and curves but also a penis.

Physically, transgenders look like the sex they have chosen, but mostly their sex organ is the opposite.


LilMissFavvy this is the correct description of transgender. They are not born with both sex organ but with one sex organ. Those born with both sex organs are called INTERSEX.

larryking78:
Please send via, lanrefalana4real@gmail.com

I already sent you an invite, but you did not sign up.

wolement:
.

You have been sent an invite.

MaxInDHouse:
Thanks for the first post!

You are welcome.

budaatum:
Forgive buda please, but the above is untrue! Adam was not given "authority to rule over the earth and to subdue it".

Adam was a gardener in Eden, which was a tiny portion of the earth that was to be ruled over and subdued by the more capable creation in Genesis 1 who was made in God's image and definitely not from dust.

According to the book, at least, and again, forgive buda.

Since you don't believe the Bible there is no point getting into a discussion with you.