₦airaland Forum

Law prince:
• John 1:18, "The only begotten God."


Who is fooling who? Has Jesus changed from the only begotten son 2 Begotten God as claimed in Jhon3:16?
What an obvious contradiction!!!

You again see your weak and confused post? You were using the Bible to deny Jesus' deity, when verses are thrown at you, you become overwhelm and change your denial of Jesus' deity to claiming contradiction . . . . you thought  Christians just wake up and claimed Jesus deity? Funny kid.

Law prince:
IS JESUS A MAMI-WATER
I think u shd wake up from slumber guy, and dont get deceived by naughty analysis. What of where Jesus prayed 2 God in d Bible? Matt. 26-39. Don't be fooooled. Haba!

You see how your delusion is showing up? You wake up and sampled a few verses in the Bible laid them as a basis of denying Jesus'deity, when the full weight of the scripture was thrown at you, you threw a week jab and started showing you stupidity.

N. B. : I am not a guy, I am a responsibly married man with children, dont think NL is for people of shallow minds who just wake up and spew nonsense posts.

The following Scriptures, given the character of Jesus Christ, are only logically explained on the basis of His deity:

For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. (John 6:38)

And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began. (John 17:5)

"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" (John 8:58)

Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me." (Matthew 28:18)

I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world. (John 16:33)

Jesus said… "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies." (John 11:25)

I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life. (John 5:24; see John 10:27, 28; 11:25)

I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. (John 15:5)

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6)

When he looks at me, he sees the one who sent me. (John 12:45; see John 14:7-11; 17:5)

All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you. (John 16:15)

While I am in the world, I am the light of the world, (John 9:5)

There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. (John 12:48)

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him. (John 3:36)

[The Father has entrusted all judgments to the Son] that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him. (John 5:23)

When a man believes in me, he does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. (John 12:44)

Can we imagine anybody saying all these? even the most exalted angel has never claim what Christ said. The magnitude of these claims are such that if they are not true, Jesus cannot be considered a sane or a good man. He would have to be considered as the founder of the greatest system of idolatry the world has ever seen. Loraine Boettner asserts in his Studies in Theology (1980, p. 144):

Certainly on the basis of His own teaching Jesus claimed Deity for Himself. No unprejudiced reader can reach any other conclusion. Such has been the impression of the great mass of those who have read the New Testament. This has led Dr. A. H. Strong to observe that "if He is not God, He is a deceiver or is self-deceived, and in either case, Christ, if not God, is not good." And Dr. E. Y. Mullins has pointed out that if we deny His Deity then "we must conclude that, with all His moral beauty and excellence, Jesus was a pitiable failure as a teacher if He did not succeed in guarding His message against corruptions which have led to His own exaltation as God, and to the existence through eighteen centuries of a system of idolatry of which He is the center."

And again, the scriptures plainly declares Christ’s deity:

• John 1:1, 14, "The word was God…. The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us."

• John 1:18, "The only begotten God."

• John 20:28, Thomas said to him [Jesus] "My Lord and my God."

• Titus 2:13, "Our Great God and Saviour Jesus Christ."

• Hebrews 1:8, But about the Son he says, "Your throne O God, will last forever and ever."

• 2 Peter 1:1, "Our God and Saviour Jesus Christ."

• 1 John 5:20, "Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life."

• Colossians 2:9, "In Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form."

• Isaiah 9:6, "For to us a child is born, and He will be called Mighty God."

• Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23, "Immanuel"—"God with us."

• Hebrews 1:1-3, "The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His being…."

• Acts 20:28, The church was purchased with the blood of God.

• Romans 9:5, "Christ, who is God over all, forever praised."

• 2 Thessalonians 1:12, "Our God and Lord Jesus Christ."

• Philippians 2:6, "being in very nature God." (The Greek could be literally translated "continuing to subsist in the form of God."

And again, what did Jesus claim for Himself:

I and the Father are One. (John 10:30)

He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father. (John 5:23)

If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also. (John 8:19)

He who beholds Me, beholds the One who sent Me. (John 12:45)

Whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner. (John 5:19)

No one knows the Father except the Son. (Matthew 11:27)

You believe in God, believe also in Me. (John 14:1)

He who has seen Me, has seen the Father. (John 14:9)

He who hates me, hates my Father. (John 15:23)

He who receives Me, receives the One who sent Me. (Matthew 10:40)

All that belongs to the Father is mine. (John 16:15)

My Father is working until now and I am working. (John 5:17)

@ OP;

It baffles me at times when i see some Christians proclaiming that Jesus is God.

I wouldn’t have posted on this thread, but seen you are a newbie, I will patronise you. Are you a Christian? Certainly if you were a Christian who reads the Bible, you will accept His Deity.

1. Mathew 4:10- Jesus said: Thou shall worship only one God.
2. Mark 10:17-18- Jesus said: only God is good, He is not.
3. Mark 12:29-33- Jesus said: our God is one.
4. John 20:17- Jesus said "My God and your God, My father and your Father"
5. 1 Timothy 6:26- God is immortal (everlasting) but Jesus died- matt. 27:50

Jesus has a dual nature, He is both God and man, otherwise He wouldn’t have been a fit mediator between the Father and man. The verses you quoted above all referred to the His human nature. I will now ask you, what are the attributes of God? You will surely answer that God is eternal, omniprescent, omniscience, omnipotent, e.t.c. If Jesus has all these attributes, then, is He not God? Look at what the Bible said in regards to Jesus’ deity:

Eternity

The everlasting Father (Isaiah 9:6).
From everlasting (Micah 5:2).
In the beginning, He always was (John 1:1, 2, 14, 15).
Jesus had glory with God before the world was created (John 17:5).

Omnipresence

Where two or three are, He is there (Matthew 18:20).
He is with us always (Matthew 28:20).
He is in every believer (John 14:20-23).
He fills all (Ephesians 1:23; 4:20).

Omniscience

He knows people’s thoughts (Mark 2:8; Luke 6:8; 11:17).
He knew the manner of His death (Matthew 16:21; John 12:33).
He knew the Father (Matthew 11:27; Only God can know Himself—1 Corinthians 2:11, 16).
He knew who would betray Him (John 6:64, 70-71).
He knew the future (John 2:19-22; John 18:4; John 13:19; Matthew 24:35).
He saw Nathaniel under the fig tree (John 1:49).
He knew the history of the Samaritan woman (John 4:29).
The disciples’ testimony (John 16:30; 17:30).
He knew all men (John 2:24, 25).

While Christ is God, we must remember that in the incarnation He had surrendered the independent use of His attributes (Philippians 2:6-8; John 5:30). As a true man, He was a servant to the Father, as an example to us (John 13:4, 5). Therefore, while on earth, there were some things the Father did not allow Him to know and in His humanity only He was not omniscient. Thus, He didn’t know the time of His return (Mark 13:32); He went to see if there was fruit on a fig tree (Mark 11:13) and He marveled at both unbelief (Mark 6:6) and belief (Matthew 8:10).

Omnipotence and Sovereignty

He is the Almighty (Revelation 1:.
He does whatever the Father does (John 5:19).
He upholds all things (Colossians 1:17; Hebrews 1:3).
All authority, including over all mankind, is given to Him (Matthew 28:18; John 17:2, 3).
He is the head over all rule and authority (Colossians 2:10).
He has power to subject all things unto Himself (Philippians 3:21).
He will reign until He has put all enemies under His feet (1 Corinthians 15:25).
He exerts control over His own life and death (John 10:18).
He is the ruler of the kings of the earth (Revelation 1:5).
He has power over nature (Luke. 8:25).
He is Lord of all (Revelations 19:16; 1 Peter 3:22, Colossians 1:18; Acts 10:36).

Immutability

He is always and forever the same (Hebrews 13:8 cf., 1:12, 8, 10).
His words will never pass away (Matthew 24:35).

Holy

He is holy (Revelation 3:7)
He is the holy offspring that will be called the Son of God (Luke 1:35).
He knew no sin (2 Corinthians 5:21).
He is without sin (Hebrews 4:15).
He is holy, innocent, undefiled, and separated from sinners (Hebrews 7:26).
He is unblemished and spotless (1 Peter 1:19).
He committed no sin (John 8:46; 1 John 3:5; 1 Peter 2:22).

Truth

He is full of grace and truth (John 1:14).
The truth is in Jesus (Ephesians 4:21).
He is the truth (John 14:6).
He is faithful and true (Revelation 19:11).

If the major attributes of deity are ascribed to Christ, the only logical conclusion is that Christ is God.


And you said Jesus told a lie . . . where in the Bible? Because the verse you quoted did not indicate Jesus told a lie.

@abuzola;
You will observe that I did not respond to any of your posts, reason been that all your posts are just meaningless and unintelligent.

@Vortex;

Punishments, as I understand, are meant to teach lessons, not to delight a sane punisher. Your theory of God punishing another in place of several others, is not only devoid of justice to the one punished (being innocent of the crime) it also implies that God took delight in the shedding of human blood. How dare you ascribe such a thing to God Himself and not see a problem but you see a problem with the concept of God being Loving in conjunction with being Just!

Your reasoning doesn’t cease to amaze me. Who told you Jesus was punished? He willingly laid down his life for mankind. There is a difference between punishment and wilful suffering.

Beast sacrifice themselves in defence of their young against an external agrressor, NOT give their young to be killed (so they can enjoy the grisly act vicariously) in atonement for an act that was perpetrated against them. That will be 'below the sense of better judgement' of the beast.

See the scenario you are creating here: an act was committed against a beast, the beast then gave up his life defending his younger one. That scenario is quite different from what happened to Jesus’ sacrifice. Look at the scenario: man sinned against God, spilled blood of an innocent person is needed to redeem man and bring him back to God (against your scenario where there is nothing like this), Jesus, been equal with God and free from sin, offered to spilled His blood to redeem mankind. In effect, Jesus (equivalent of the beast in the scenario you created), gave up His life to redeem man (His children).

Was God enjoying this scenario? NO, He could not behold it, that was why He turned away temporarily from the Son.

@the_seeker;

even a beast will not murder his only begotten son in cold blood to fulfill an act he could simply have achieved with the click of a finger. Why all the gory drama. This god must be Shylock

Of the 99 attributes of allah, none is love, so I don’t blame a muslim mind when it fails to fathom that there is no greater love than one laying down his life for the salvation of mankind, which was what Jesus did to save me and you.

@ Modupe01/Analytical/Nezan

You proponents of the Redeeming Blood theory, have you ever stopped to ask yourselves why God would NEED the blood for whatever purpose? Have you ever stopped to ponder that tiresome phrase - 'there is no remission of sin without the shedding of blood', instead of rattling it off like a programmed robot?

Are you implying that an omnipotent being who could easily have created any kind of blood of whatever composition to suit any kind of purpose, first has to come to earth, subject us to a gory sight of a violent death just so he can collect the blood of an innocent?

I would have chosen to ignore you, but I sensed your ignorance hence this reply:

Reading through the book of exodus and other books in the old testament (or the Jewish torah) can be a very shocking experience: it is replete with stories of countless animals been killed and sacrificed to God. You may ask, why the need for the sobering and disturbing spilling of blood?

The bible says that ‘the wages of sin is death’ (Romans 6:23), and that ‘all have sinned and come short of the glory of God’ (Romans 3:23). Jesus also, shortly before His death, shared a cup of wine and declared: ‘This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sin’ (Matthew 26:28).

The sacrificing of animals was given to the Israelites as a lesson about the cost that God will pay in the person of His Son to redeem humanity to Himself. God also told Moses that blood represents life. The blood of the sacrificed, innocent animals represented the cost of redemption in the blood of God’s own Son.

It is greatly disheartening to see that 'christians', who are supposed to be the direct recipient of the sublime message of love and justice brought by Jesus, from God The Father; are the ones who have managed to drag down and make a mess of Jesus' Work! They have managed to conjure an image of a god whose attribute is below that of man. Come to think of it, I can't immediately think of any beast that would do what 'christians' ascribe to God Himself!

What a shocking and blatant lie you told there. How can God’s attributes be below that of a man? You make hipped-up claims without backing them up with facts. The Christian God is love (which He demonstrated by sending His Son to die for man’s redemption), He is all-knowing, Omnipresent etc. etc., which attribute has made God less than man, liar?

@Deepsight;

Nezan/ Analytical/ Modupe -

No insult intended, but it seems to me that you guys are not being deep or exhaustive enough in your reading of Bible verses.

Because you read the Bible with a biased mind doesn’t mean you should insult the intelligence of Christians. Are you claiming to be more intelligent than Christians all over the world who believe in Trinity? Nairaland can indeed make people say unimaginable things.

Jesus himself explained the term "I and my Father are one" severally. He stated unequivocally that he and his father were one in the same way as we should be one with him. Now are you Jesus? No. But you are one with him in spirit as a christian, yes?

Thus the oneness was a oneness of accord, and not an ontological or existential oneness as an entity.
This verse elucidates and proves the point:

John 17:20-23: “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.”

Its abundantly clear that its a spiritual and not ontological or existential oneness. There. That's Bible proof.

The verse you quoted and explained out of context, actually shows Jesus, praying that believers should imitate the unity He had with the Father.  
Whenever Christ speaks about unity, you ought to remember how basely and shockingly, when separated from him, the world is scattered; and, next, let. us learn that the commencement of a blessed life is, that we be all governed, and that we all live, by the Spirit of Christ alone.
Again, you ought to understand, that, in every instance in which Christ declares, in this chapter, that he is one with the Father, he speaks of his Divine essence, and  that he is called one as regards his mediatorial office, and in so far as he is our Head. Now, Christ reasons from the end, by showing that we ought to be one, otherwise the unity which he has with the Father would be fruitless and unavailing. To comprehend aright what was intended by saying, that Christ and the Father are one, we must take care not to deprive Christ of his office as Mediator, but must rather view him as he is the Head of the Church, and unite him with his members. Thus will the chain of thought be preserved, that, in order to prevent the unity of the Son with the Father from being fruitless and unavailing, the power of that unity must be diffused through the whole body of believers. Hence, too, we infer that we are one with the Son of God; not because he conveys his substance to us, but because, by the power of his Spirit, he imparts to us his life and all the blessings which he has received from the Father.

On your belief that Jesus is not God, remember that after 3 years with his disciples we read how one of them asks Jesus and wants to be "shown the Father (God)".

 Jesus answered, "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. , Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves." (John 14:10-11).

Jesus expected the disciples and the people around him to recognise his true nature and identity from his words which are only appropriate for God to speak and from his deeds. Jesus does give enough proof and then lets you draw your own conclusions. Everybody could make the claim to be God. And
many have made claims to be (a) god throughout history. Only the true God can give true evidence for it and if you have the evidence there is no need for the explicit command to worship anymore. His real identity is established by the proof he gives, not by claims each and everybody can make. After he has given the evidence, those who are open for the truth will recognise the evidence, those who ignore the evidence won't be convinced either. And if you have recognized his true identity, worshiping him is only proper and will nearly be an "automatic" response. So no need for useless repetitive arguments!

If the jets are needed for evangelism, why not?

^^^ It shall be well with Africa.

Marry when you are emotionally and financially balanced, but more importantly, you have to depend on God who manages our emotions and finances. For who are we without Him?

Go Eaglets . . . may God help us.

lagerwhenindoubt:
Gvieve assaulted us with her Ghana-Hip-hop, Mercy should just stick to her one-liners in slutty nollywood scenes

I wonder why we like been negative and bad-mouthing others.

. . . . . and Noohoo will be making noise as if he was a true anti-corruption crusader . . . iissshhhhh!!

The guy sure has questions to answer. I wonder why he likes making so much noise.

I wonder why women spend so much on make-ups.

Re: Police Shoots Hawker Over Plaintain Chips.
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>
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Without reading the thread, you can come to just one conclusion: who are they policing?

1. (a) Genesis 6:3-Man shall not live for more than 120 years.
(b) Genesis 9:29-Noah lived for 950 years.

You fail to understand the basic issues of translation from ancient Hebrew. The Hebrew scholars and translators have a dilemma here. First, they have to produce a translation from the Hebrew text into coherent English. Since the Hebrew of the Old Testament was a dead language and understood only by a few even before Christ was born, several words can only be partially understood now (unless you know all about it). The critical word in this passage, "saneh," is only partially known. In later Hebrew, it unquestionably meant "year," but its precise meaning 500-1000 years earlier had long since been lost.
Meanwhile, the translator must give us the best he has, in coherent English. Accordingly, the translation you read which speaks like this about the "years" of people's lives, is deficient, in the sense that the original language is only partially unknown. "Year" is the only sense the translators knew for "saneh," so it was used. In conclusion, the translation of the Bible which you read is self-contradictory if it reads as above without a footnote describing the inaccuracy and unreliability of this translation. Yet the Bible itself, which is distinct from your translation, is by no means self-contradictory on this matter.

(a) 1st Timothy 5:23-Paul said, drink no longer water but use a little wine.
(b) Romans 14:21-Paul said, it is not good to drink wine

You failed to quote the whole verse of ITimothy 5:23. Here, because of the nature of Timothy’s illness, Paul is urging him to take a little wine. He was just pointing to him, the therapeutic properties of alcohol, just like some drugs today make use of it. Don’t you take drugs that have some measure of alcohol?

(a)Genesis 17:12-14 -Circumcision is an everlasting covenant.
(b)Galatians 5:2-3 -If you circumsize, Christ shall not profit you.

This is not a contradiction. The first verse you quote was from the old testament, while the second was from the new testament. Before the coming of Christ (i.e. old testament), salvation was based on works, of which circumcision was one, sacrificing of animal blood, e.t.c., but with the shedding of Jesus’ holy blood on the cross (i.e. the new testament), salvation is not based on works again, but by belief on the Lord, Jesus Christ.

(a)Luke 23:26- Simeon carried the cross of Jesus to Golgotta.
(b)John 19:17- Jesus himself carried his cross to Golgotta.

You are so much deluded that you fail to grasp basics. Jesus carried the cross, but when He was tired and could not move, Simeon was forced to help Jesus carry the cross.

(a)John 14:27- Jesus brought and left peace.
(b)Matt 10:34-37 -Jesus did not come to bring peace.

Jesus brought peace, but He was killed by the Jews, His followers were unjustly killed, so the peace He brought was turned into hatred. So what is the contradiction there?

^^^ Nice one there. Jesus' claims to deity were well documented in the Bible.

^^^ So what happen to all those who die before mohammed dusted allah from among the idols in the kaaba and made him into the god of creation?

Okay, I wish you a happy search . . . but how will you get true love on a forum that people use fake names and hide under anonymity to make posts?

@ muhsin; but I think you are familiar with the name 'paedophilia', because mohammed was a fan.

^^^^^^^ Seems you have just started reading some fake material on the conspiracy theories of atheists. My friend, stop wasting your time, Jesus life and times were documented even by non-christian writers.

@horus;

In 2 Samuel 10:18 and 1 Chronicles 19:18, like many bible quotes, the zero was lost. According to 2 Samuel 10:18 David slew 700 chariots and 40,000 horsemen. Yet 1 Chronicles 19:18 says that David slew 7,000 chariots and 40,000 footmen. Which one is correct? Neither, because there were no numbers in the original Hebrew bible.

See your explanations:

They used the first ten letters and the sifr, which is the zero (0) that was invented by the Arabs. It came from the Ashuric/Syraic (Arabic) word safara meaning “nothing to be nothing” or sifr “to be empty,” from which you see comes the word cipher.

You have eventually answered yourself but failed to realise the answer. These descrepansies arose because numbers were peculiarly difficult to transmit accurately because of the absence of zeros. In the modern Hebrew Bible all numbers are written out in full, but for a long time the text was written without vowels. The absence of vowels made it possible to confuse two words which are crucial to this problem: ’eleph and ’alluph . Without vowel points these words look identical: ’lp. ’eleph is the ordinary word for ‘thousand’, but it can also be used in a variety of other senses: e.g. ‘family’ ( Judges 6:15 , Revised Version) or ‘clan’ ( Zechariah 9:7 ; 12:5, 6 , Revised Standard Version) or perhaps a military unit. ’alluph is used for the ‘chieftains’ of Edom ( Genesis 36:15–43 ); probably for a commander of a military ‘thousand’; and almost certainly for the professional, fully-armed soldier. E. g. The discrepancy between the two sets of figures for David’s census can be accounted for by recognizing at different stages in transmission, first, the addition of noughts, and then, a misunderstanding of ’lp . If we postulate original figures: Israel: 80,000 plus 30 ’lp ; Judah: 40,000 plus 70 ’lp .

alex0026:
am single still searching(are u married).
from eu.

http://www.mutualinterestsforum.com/

Unserious minds . . . you don tire with posting websites here, don begin date babes? Na wa for you-o.

It is just boring when issues are brought up, thrashed and then resurrected again and the cycle keeps repeating. This Trinity issue has been trashed here on several occasions.

One guy here discredited the Trinity based on his myopic reasoning that 1+1+1=3. Modupe corrected him to 1X1X1=1

Deepsight is still arguing about Trinity, bringing out verses from the Bible that referred to his humanity, while avoiding those that referred to his deity.

Christ was God and Man, the attributes he needed to mediate between God and men, that was why the Bible referred to his humanity and divinity . . . check my post on the thread you open to engage Davidylan on this.

^^^^^^^ Must you open a thread? I dont get your gist . . . what are you trying to say?

Too bad if it is true.