₦airaland Forum

lexy2014:
Eyaaa...kpele. u are already spilling ur emotions. Opportunity costs represent the benefits an individual, investor or business misses out on when choosing one alternative over another. what has that got 2do with what i asked which is about production and cost? how can atiku give nigerians PMS at N80 or how can he not give nigerians PMS at N80. isnt that what d discussion is about?

if a pair of shoes cost N150, what went into d production of those shoes that makes it N150? d shoemaker would have procured certain items to PRODUCE d shoes which form his costs whether they b variable or fixed. things like sole, leather, thread, needle, gum, and then he will factor in his labour and his transportation. this is what i said u should do with ur one litre of imported PMS which is N150, ur base price. ur unit of analysis. like i said ealier d issue isnt whether a barrel of crude can produce 166litres of PMS. what i asked u to do is to break down that one litre from d 166litres and tell us what went into its production. unfortunately u are talking of mango and opportunity cost. u are feigning knowledge but displaying gross ignorance. in ur economics, werent u taught that production is about input, process and output? a litre of PMS is an output (product). if it is a product, what were d input that went into its production? and for u to no y d product sells 4 N150, then u must no d costs of its input. thats all u are supposed to analyse. cost of producing imported PMS on one hand and d cost of producing PMS locally on d other hand by identifying their input. not to come here 2 b talking of mango

Oh yes I feel emotional, I feel terrible about the pathetic state of the educational system in Nigeria. Just imagine the simple concept I've been trying to explain to you for days? You are simply being an economic illiterate, that's why you feel the crude oil NNPC will use in producing petrol locally is worth nothing, that's why you feel the alternative amount NNPC can potentially make by alternatively seeling that crude is an irrelevant eonomic consideration when fixing the price of locally produced petrol. Probably if the FG sets up a body that makes leather shoes, you will also assume the international market price of the leather (assuming it was just exported) should not be a relevant consideration because the leather was produced in Nigeria. My goodness! how can people be this dull even after explanations?

A simple question for you, if NNPC sells 1000 barrels of crude at $80/barrel, it makes $80,000 right?.... So if the same NNPC decides to not sell that crude but rather just share it to Nigerians for free, how much did NNPC not make by not selling the crude?... The simple argument which Oby Ezekwesili put forward is that if Atiku decides to sell petrol at N80, Nigeria would be making a loss; and of course that loss doesn't come from money it spent producing the fuel (cos NNPC got the crude for free of course), rather the loss comes from the extra money it would have made had it sold the crude internationally for $80. That extra money not made is the opportunity cost (Opportunity costs represent the benefits an individual, investor or business misses out on when choosing one alternative over another).

Even an illiterate market woman wouldn't find it this difficult to understand the principle of opportunity cost, but I'm sure this Oga would still come back and tell me how NNPC did not buy the crude and wonder why I mentioned opportunity cost. Even if you weren't taught basic economics in secondary school, you have the privilege of the internet to google things and gain knowledge. But you just can't, that's why you think crude produced in Nigeria has no value.

djon78:
All your analysis are very wrong.
Are you aware of basic laws of international trade?
How can NNPC pay for crude oil at $80 per barrel. Why will I pay $ for products I produce in my country
How do you even determine the exchange rate of a nation?
This is the problem we have in this part of the world. When even basic laws of international trade we can't understand and we want our economy to improve. While busy quoting Economics 101.


You said NNPC will pay $ for her crude.
Nigeria has OPEC quota of 2 million barrels per day. That quota is for export. It has nothing to do with the oil we use locally

During Jonathan period, at least I was aware that what Nigeria did was export crudes to refineries abroad and the same refined products is now imported back. And a lot of slush funds and misappropriation was done on that policy. But even with that Nigerians were paying less on petrol. But we don't even know how this present administration does her own. Everything is shrouded in secrecy. Now we pay more for fuel, and the oil bill is more now on the country's balance sheet.

Then that the NNPC will pay the $ equivalent. for a product you produce in your country in.
It doesn't make any economic sense.


Why does wise Nations encourage local production? Because when they produce locally, foreigners come to purchase from them and they come with $ to buy. The $ will be chasing there currency, thereby strengthening there currency against the $. It also strengthens local producers and protects/proofs the local consumer. And this is the secret of how China has lifted more than 500 million people from poverty. And this is the model wise Nations use.

But in your own analogy, NNPC will pay in $ for her oil she produces locally. chei person no go see anything for this Nairaland

I will say it again, Nigeria has no reason to be paying so much on fuel. But because of bad policies and no vision we do so.

Good gracious! We truly have a problem with our reading culture in Nigeria. Oga, kindly point out where you read in my entire write-up that NNPC will PAY for crude?.. If you can point that out, just send me your account number and I will credit you with N100k instantly.

How exactly did you read what I wrote above and conclude that I said NNPC will pay for crude?... Now read carefully, I said crude oil is worth $80/bbl and even if NNPC gets it free from Nigerian soil, it doesn't still change the fact that it is still worth $80 in the international market. So therefore, if for instance NNPC decides to use refine a barrel of Nigerian crude and share it to Nigerians for free as Christmas gift, even though it sourced the crude or free, the $80 it could have earned if it had chosen to rather sell that crude internationally will not be earned. That $80 not earned is indirectly a loss to NNPC, or you can call it 'the opportunity cost' of giving Nigerians free fuel. In economics, when you hear the word 'cost', it isn't always about physical money spent; money you fail to earn is also a 'cost'.

My goodness, what is wrong with our educational system in Nigeria that people cannot grasp this elementary economic concept of opportunity cost?... VEry soon you will ask me again what I mean by opportunity cost because NNPC gets the crude from Nigeria.

RALPHOW:
The only thing that reduced corruption is GEJ TSA AND BVN.
GMB/OSINBAJO has no working system,
Sincerity can not take country to anywhere but working system.
All the huge money generated by MDAs like JAMB, CUSTOMS are all effect of GEJ"s TSA
Corruption reduction is effect of BVN.
GEJ's Card Reader reduced rigging during election
However thanks to GMB for the implementation of TSA and BVN.
MY point is that only system put in place can turn around this country.

But you've just proven the VP's point 100%, BVN and TSA were conceived since 2012 under GEJ, but there was zero political will to implement them for obvious reasons till they left power in 2015. But the first thing the next govt did was to speedily implement those ideas. Having great ideas has never been a problem in Nigeria, rather it's the will to implement them

lexy2014:
I haven't argued with u. I only asked u simple questions. By d way this was d first question I asked u. So it wasn't an argument.

How did u arrive at N150 per litre of petrol 4 locally refined PMS?

Unfortunately, u were talking about opportunity cost. I didnt tell u are right or wrong neither did i tell u 150 is too small or too big. If u say a litre of PMS 4 imported product is 150 because a barrel of crude is $80, how does that same price automatically fit locally produced PMS? That's all am asking u 2 clarify by letting us no what went into d 150naira per litre of imported PMS and if those same inputs apply to locally produced PMS. Use ur 150naira base price as ur unit of analysis.

Can you swear on your life that I havent answered that question at least 3 times?... Are you blind to read my responses or are my responses invisible on your computer screen? Or are ypu just another internet troll that comes online to throw arguments around without bothering to read responses?.... How can I be answering the same question to the same person over and over again?.... Or could it even be I'm talking to a computer programme and not a human?

A barrel of crude is equivalent to 160litres. If we assume that we can convert the full 160 litres of crude to petrol, the maximum we can get from a barrel is therefore 160litres of petrol (take note, this is only an assumption cos we cant really derive up to 160litres from a barrel as there will always be other derivatives and bye products). But assuming we can get up to the full 160 litres of petrol from an $80 barrel of crude, that come out to about N150/litre.

Of course your next point is that NNPC doesnt buy the crude so therefore the crude is free or worth nothing. But that is where you are wrong because you have zero understanding of what opportunity cost means, s9 Im jot surprised you keep wondering why I talk of opportunity cost. If mangoes are sold for N10 in the market and I pluck a mango in my garden, to an illiterate, that mango is free because he believes I didnt buy it. But to an economist, that mango is worth N10. So if I fling that mango in the bush, I've simply lost the N10 I would have made if I sold it.

Likewise, even if NNPC gets the crude it refines from Nigeria free of charge, a barrel of crude is still worth $80 (not free like the economic illiterate would think). And if NNPC sells the derivatives of that local crude for any amount which is below the equivalent market price of $80, NNPC would be taking a loss (which comes in form of the opportunity cost of not selling the crude internationally).

I'm very sure he will still return with the exact same question on where N150 came from and why I talk of opportunity cost. If you still dont understand the gist, kindly go back to primary 5 please and try and listen in class.

lexy2014:
No one is saying Oby doesn't no what she is saying. D question is do u no what u are saying? It doesnt seem so. All this ur plenty grammar is unnecessary cos u are still recycling opportunity cost which has absolutely nothing 2do with d discussion. Ur brief is 2do a comparative analysis of how much it cost 2 produce a litre of imported PMS and a litre of locally produced PMS. Instead of doing that u are still talking of opportunity cost. U say d base price is N150 which I told u is d basic or smallest unit price of this discussion. That's were to start ur analysis. But u talking about mango.

I have asked u several times, take that ur base price of N150 and let us no d items&d cost of those items that went into d production of a litre of imported PMS that made it 150. If a barrel of crude is $80, does that automatically mean d cost of a litre will b N150 after its produced locally? U can't conclude without breaking down ur base price of 150 into smaller items so we can c what went into its production. Whether a barrel of crude = 166 litres of PMS or not isn't d issue. D issue is what goes into d production of a litre of imported PMS and locally produced PMS that gives it that 150naira price tag? That is what u are supposed to explain.

Okay, I should have asked this a long time ago, what exactly is your argument?... I re-read through all your responses and I noticed that all you've done is just say "you are wrong" without even defining what your disagreement is. So now you have the floor, can you define what exactly your point is? Is the N150 rough estimate too big or too small and please give a breakdown of your reasons.

lexy2014:
How can u teach when u don't no? That's were d problem is coming from. U erroneously think u are a teacher.

First of, let me give a background. Oby is saying that if Atiku becomes president, he wouldn't b able to make a litre of PMS N80 as he is claiming. Now all u doing is recycling info about how much it cost to buy a litre of imported PMS.

D smallest unit of this discussion is N150 which is d cost per litre of imported PMS. D question 4u is simple, if a litre of imported PMS cost N150, what are d items that go into d process of making a litre of imported PMS N150? After itemising those items, put a cost to those individual items then I will no u no what u are saying.

U are still talking about foreign exchange&global price of crude. D simple question I asked u earlier which with all ur teaching knowledge u have failed to answer is this, does NNPC import fuel 4d purpose of refining? Where does NNPC get its crude from 4 refining? Its cos of this d other gentleman djon78 asked u d same question I asked u which is what has foreign exchange got 2do with local refining? So clearly u don't even no where NNPC gets its crude 4 refining.

D reason y NNPC is important in this discussion is because 4 atiku to achieve his aim of low price of PMS, is by using NNPC. Dangote is a private establishment and not accountable 2d FG. Even if dangote was buying crude at $80 per barrel from exploration companies, does that automatically translate to N150 per litre? That's y I asked u to break down ur N150 of imported PMS let's no what and what makes up d 150?

@Lexy2014, I have tried my utmost best to explain basic economics of buying and selling which even a primary 4 pupil wouldn't struggle to grasp. I want to believe you're just intentionally running around in circles because you feel you want to win an argument.

The statement of Oby Ezekwesili is simple, Atiku becoming president and knocking down fuel prices to N80 would entail government taking a loss which can be viewed as subsidy. Even if NNPC refines all Nigeria's petrol locally, yes it might not have to physically pay any cash to provide Nigerians with petroleum products (as is the case today), but the revenue that should have accrued to govt coffers from the sale of that crude for $80/barrel internationally would be cut short if locally refined petrol is then priced at a non-commensurate rate.

I gave you an analogy using mangos but I doubt you bothered reading it; thats why you keep repeating your statement that NNPC wouldnt import crude for purpose of refining. If I pluck a mango from my garden, it might seem to be free or worthless to a lay mind. But if I can sell that mango in the market for N10, then it means the mango is worth N10.... #Economics101.

So it doesnt matter if I get it free from my tree, the most important thing is that I can exchange it for N10, and if for any reason I decide to exchange it with a friend for a discount rate of say N7, economically, that means I have foregone/lost N3 which can be termed the opportunity cost to me for pleasing my friend.

Same thing with crude, even if NNPC gets it free from the ground, that doesnt necessarily make the crude worthless; the true worth of that crude is determined based on prevailing global market price of crude. And for you to quantify the worth of the crude in Naira, you need the exchange rate to do your conversions. For crying out loud, how can this explanation be to difficult for anyone to grasp?....

NNPC might get the crude for free, but that doesnt mean the crude is worthless; the crude has a worth which is determined by its global market price and if Atiku decides to sell at any pump price which doesnt measure up to the equivalent market price of the crude, that means the FG/NNPC would be incurring losses.

Regarding the N150 which you keep asking of and which I keep explaining a thousand times, the market worth of a barrel of crude is $80 today. And a barrel produces about 160 litres of petrol; that is how I came about the N150 base price.

Once again, crude oil is not worthless, even if NNPC gets it free from the ground, it is still worth $80/bbl because that is what NNPC stands to earn if it sells it, and also if the NNPC/FG decides to sell the derivatives of the crude for any amount which is lower than the equivalent $80, NNPC would be taking a loss.

Dr Oby Ezekwesili has a brilliant understanding of these things and she's definitely not an idiot like some folks on this thread are trying to paint. She knows exactly what she's talking about and all I've been struggling to do here is to breakdown what she said. If you still dont understand the gist, then it's unfortunate. I'd leave it here by reminding you and your friend @djon78 that you aren't smarter or more knowledgeable that Dr Oby Ezekwesili.

lexy2014, djon78

.... Or looking at this from another angle. Assuming all our refineries are working and Nigeria refines 100% of the petrol it consumes. The government can arbitrarily decide to just peg the pump price of petrol at say N50/litre (I'm sure this is the logic on which you guys claim the pump price can be made N80 without a loss).

If the govt refines and sells fuel to Nigerians at N50 or even N80, given the prevailing global oil and petroleum product prices (and Nigeria's current exchange rate), are you guys aware that the govt would be making much more money if it chooses to export that same petrol instead of selling it to Nigerians?

Now in order to calculate how much money it would be losing by selling the petrol cheaply in Nigeria instead of exporting, you need to factor in the global price of crude and Nigeria's exchange rate.

If you guys at this stage cant still understand why the exchange rate and global oil price are important factors in determining the value and pricing template of even locally refined petroleum products, then its a pity, I give up!! Enjoy the rest of your wkend.

Same thing they did in 2015 and failed, 3 months to elections already, instead of PDP and its supporters to focus on campaigning and convincing people to vote their candidate, they deploy their entire arsenal looking for Buhari's certificate.

lexy2014:
Jesus Christ of Nazareth...C grammar. Its not about how much u are able to write, its about if u are addressing d issues. Let me make it easier 4u. What is d comparative cost of imported PMS and PMS refined in Nigeria? All u are saying have absolutely nothing 2do with that comparison. U are writing an epistle about opportunity cost. I didn't ask u about opportunity cost. u dont need all this grammar.

All u writing about are d factors that affect d price of imported products. All these factors don't affect locally refined product. If u say a litre of imported PMS goes 4 N150 cos of certain factors, are those factors still in play in d process of local production?

D questions I asked u are simple. Pick them one after d other and answer them.

1)U are talking about exchange rate and global price of oil. What has that got 2do with local production?
2)Does NNPC import d crude it refines?
3) What is d cost of refining a litre of PMS locally?
4)d price of a litre of PMS is N150 per litre, what and what goes into that 150 and in what proportion? What are those "unavoidable costs" and how much are they?
5) transportation, storage and other miscellaneous cost..what's d basis of all these costs and activities 4 local refining?

djon78:
You are still not addressing anything.
All that you typed there makes no sense.
What concerns exchange rate with local production?
Why shut up the modular refineries?
The truth is that government is not honest about solving local production. The kind of money they amass by importation is colossal!!

But they should continue
Fossil fuel is on its last lap in the world.
Then it will be too late for Nigeria.
Nigeria will pay severely for Every form of financial recklessness it had perpetrated all these years.
Time is running out for her to do the right thing
But they won't listen
When calamity comes, they should not cry!!!!

My goodness! It must really be one hell of a job being your teacher.

Okay, simple questions for you guys:
(1) if a barrel of Nigerian crude oil is worth $80 in the international market, how much is that same barrel of crude oil worth in the Nigerian market today?...

(2) If Mr Dangote wants to buy a barrel of crude for his refinery, and global crude oil price is $80/barrel, how much would he pay for it?... Would he pay less than $80 because the crude comes from Nigeria?

(3) If Dangote buys crude for $80/barrel and refines it in his refinery within Nigeria, how much is the least price Dangote can sell petrol in order to cover his cost price?... (1bbl crude = 160litres of petrol)

(4) If the Nigerian govt chooses to sell its crude to Dangote at a cost of $40/barrel in order for Dangote refinery to be able to offer cheaper petrol to Nigerians, how much would the government be foregoing (or losing) per barrel of crude by choosing to sell to Dangote at $40 instead of the global $80?

2)Does NNPC import d crude it refines?

Irrespective of where the crude is produced, it still has the same price tag of $80/bbl. It doesnt matter whether NNPC buys the crude from abroad or if it digs it up the ground in our backyard, a barrel of crude is still worth the same $80. If NNPC picks up a barrel freely from our backyard and pours it into the sea, NNPC has just wasted $80 which it could have made. Hope you get the logic?

It would really be bizarre if you guys still can't figure out the reason why the exchange rate and global price of crude is important in calculating the economics of petrol pump price.

lexy2014:
U are talking about exchange rate and global price of oil. What has that got 2do with local production? Does NNPC import d crude it refines? D N70 u say NNPC will loose, were is it from? What is d breakdown? What is d breakdown of ur N150? What is d cost of refining a litre of PMS locally? Transportation, storage and other miscellaneous cost..what's d basis 4 all these costs and activities 4 local refining?

lexy2014:
U haven't given any explanation my dear. U said absolutely nothing. U are using d indices of determining d cost of imported product to determine d cost of locally refined product. Does that make sense? If we are talking about local refining, then what has local refining got to do with foreign exchange and d global price of crude oil? Does NNPC import crude oil 4d purpose of local refining that u are talking about price of crude on d global market and foreign exchange? What has cost of transportation, storage got to do with local refining? What do u mean by miscellaneous costs? U need to break things down. So take ur time to read my last post and this and answer d questions I asked

'Opportunity Cost', are you aware of that economic concept?.... If a fruit seller has 50 mangos which he intends to sell in the market place for N10 each, those 50 mangoes would fetch him N500 in total. But if he puts 20 of those mangoes aside and sells them to his family members for N5 each, his total income at the end of the day would be N400 (because he sold 20 mangoes at half the market price). N500 - N400 = N100; the seller has eventually lost N100 because he chose to 'subsidise' the price of the mangoes he sold to his family members. That N100 is the opportunity cost (or subsidy) the fruit seller incurs for providing cheap mangoes to his family.

Hopefully you now understand the concept of opportunity cost; so permit me to painstakingly go through my previous explanations again since you claim you didn't understand it.

You ask what exchange rate and global oil price has to do with local production. The first question you should ask yourself is, what exactly is the price value of crude?... At $80/barrel, that amounts to N24400 (at an exchange rate of N305). Now if 1 barrel of crude typically produces ~160 litres of petrol, what that means is that 1 litre of petrol has a base price of ~N152 (note that this amount is the barest minimum which even EXCLUDES the cost of refining, transportation, storage and other miscellaneous cost which are all inevitable; if we are to add those extra unavoidable costs, the base price of petrol will be well more than that N152). So in summary, this paragraph has explained that $80/bbl crude = N152/litre petrol; I hope you now understand where the N152 figure came from?

This then brings us to the next point; "What has that N152 got to do with local production?" This is where the basic economic concept of 'OPPORTUNITY COST' comes in to play. Nigeria sells it's oil in the global market at global price of $80/bbl crude (which is equivalent to N152/litre petrol). Even though Nigeria is a producing country, crude oil isn't an infinite commodity which we can just churn out a limitless volume any time we want; at each point in time, Nigeria only has a limited quantity to sell. So therefore, if Nigeria now decides to reserve some of that crude which it could have sold internationally for $80/bbl (N152/litre petrol), and then refine it locally and sell petrol locally for N80/litre (as opposed to the N152/litre which it could have been sold for if it was sold internationally), instead of making ~N152/litre, the government will now make only N80/litre; i.e. a loss of N72 for every litre of petrol sold locally. That loss of N72/litre is the opportunity cost the govt incurs for selling petrol cheaply at a price which is lower than the international going rate; that's N72 will invariably be a SUBSIDY paid by govt to give Nigerians affordable petrol.

I sincerely hope you now get the logic.

lexy2014:
U are talking about exchange rate and global price of oil. What has that got 2do with local production? Does NNPC import d crude it refines? D N70 u say NNPC will loose, were is it from? What is d breakdown? What is d breakdown of ur N150? What is d cost of refining a litre of PMS locally? Transportation, storage and other miscellaneous cost..what's d basis 4 all these costs and activities 4 local refining?

So you mean you did not understand a single thing in that explanation I gave earlier?... You probably were just in a hurry to respond, I doubt you read what I wrote. Kindly go back and re-read it (this time do it slowly), you will get all the answers to your question.

lexy2014:
How did u arrive at N150 per litre of petrol 4 locally refined PMS?

EasternActivist:
Stop deceiving yourself Mister...

If we have what it takes for other countries we refine our product from to refine ours then there is no means importing it and paying for Landing cost and other expenses. Tell me what will keep the petrol from being free even, let alone sold at a high price of N80? And yes without any form of subsidy.
https://www.awesomeinventions.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Time.jpg

Global oil price is ~$80, and a barrel of crude can produce roughly 160 litres of pms. At current official exchange rate of N305/$, $80 = N24400 for 160 litres. That comes up to roughly N152.5. Note that the figure above has not considered the cost of adding value to the crude; i.e. refining, transportation, storage and other miscellaneous costs.

So with the above in mind, if Nigerian govt refines it's crude and decides to drop the pump price to N80, it would be losing over N70/litre which it would have gained if it decides to alternatively just sell the crude internationally at $80; in essence, Nigeria would be foregoing about $37 per barrel of crude it uses for local consumption. That foregone figure is already subsidy, and it's something no Nigerian govt would willingly want to go back to if it can be avoided. Oby Ezekwesili does not blab.

@EasternActivist
If you're ignorant of a subject, the honorable and mature thing to do is to ask for an explanation rather than jump around calling people liars.

EasternActivist:
I though this woman is learned.

If we have our refineries up and running won't it crash the fuel price even more to N80 or lower?

Smh for this woman.

Even if our refineries were working, the only way petrol can be sold for N80 is if the govt subsidises it; or if our economy picks up so well that $1 becomes less than N100.

At $80/barrel, petrol should sell for about N150. If the govt then decides to just peg the price at N80, that already means a foregone ~N70 per litre which the govt would have made if it had just sold the crude at $80. You really do think you're smarter than Oby?

Onyenazumu87:
This woman is sounding like a mad person. What has she said about Buhari's promise to make fuel #40 Naira and 1 dollar= 1 Naira? This woman has clearly proven that she's working for APC. APC wants to use her to split vote in the South East because of Obi. But we are all fully #Atikulated

What makes her a mad woman? speaking the truth?

Hahaha... This one is worse than Uncle London

Ceryificate or attestation of result, whatever it is, but those who are asking a recent picture of Buhari is on a recently issued document must be really dull.

Joevics:
None?

Lol, you are funny.

He didn't build 12 universities?
He didn't construct East west road from delta to Akwa -Ibom?

The road I just past through some days back.

Why do you guys live in lies?

When I see comments comments like this, I can't help but login and drop a response because it's clear a lot of people have no clue what is going on.

First of all, there's a difference between ESTABLISHING universities and BUILDING universities. If as a president, I give an executive order to convert Petroleum Training Institute (PTI) Effurun to Federal University of Petroleum Effurun, or I give an executive order to convert Alvan Ikoku College of Education to Alvan Ikoku University of Education, in both cases, I can be said to have ESTABLISHED 2 new universities; I wouldn't really think 'BUILDING' is the right word. Just the same way if Buhari converts Maritime Institute Oron to Maritime University Oron, would you really calll that 'building' new universities?... One or two of the 12 unis are brand new though.

About the East West road, did you just say GEJ buikt it from Delta to Akwa Ibom?... As at 2007, that road had been constructed from Warri up to Ughelli. That last time I passed that route was in 2014 and the only progress I saw was up from Ughelli to Evwreni both in Delta state (anyone who knows that road knows the lenght between Ughelli and Evwreni). Except youre saying massive progress was achieved on that road between 2014 June and 2015, then you either dont know the road you're talking about or youre just being mischievous.

hush15:
When he said that every single person said no, it was becaused this cause was championed by the Chairman of the governor forum who was Ameachi.

why didnt the ones that are in APC said, colleagues lets go and think this through again..... Non of them did.

If all the governors decided to say no? Has it stop the present ones from saying yes. So you people should stop twisting facts.

Two things, the issue wasnt a party issue because if it was party, PDP wanted to save on the contrary but governors decided it was better everybody collect theirs and go and save in their respective states.

The second is even if it is party issue, this present government has not shown the will power or the propensity to save if truly thats the solution. PDP was trying to adop it as a solution but APC hasnt even considered it.

All those lies that they were already dipping their hands into the SWF is unnecessary because we know that the SWF is an investment contract that is not even domiciled with CBN so government cant even touch those monies once its saved without all stakeholders knowledge.

Lol... You're more short sighted than i thought you were, and this is cos of your desperation to make this an APC thing.

Just listen to what you're saying, "that the APC governors didnt say No"?... was the NGF a group made up of APC governors alone?.... At the time in question, there were far more PDP governors, but the only thing you could see in all that was that APC governors didnt say No? Wonderful!

You mentioned "twisting facts", please which fact did I twist?... Only thing going on here is you desperately trying to twist a narrative to claim GEJ did not save (and led Nigeria to a recession) because of APC governors who forced him to squander money.

Did you just say the FG dipping it's hands into the ECA (not SWF) was a lie?.... So he doesnt even know the difference between SWF and ECA, yet he comes online to argue and call people liars?.. Na wa oh!... Bye bye!

Officialpdpnig:
See your comment earlier below

Was he being truthful when he began to lie that this present FG caused recession despite knowing what he said a year ago?

Politics does not need to make a liar out of a man. A principled person should not be able to lie regardless of anything.

Obi is just showing his dishonest nature and such a person is fraudulent

Like I said, he was playing politics. He said the truth about the problem preceeding the current government; he also said the truth about the current govt not having done enough to hold back the recession, and because he has to play polotics, you would only see him focusing on the latter (i.e. how the current govt isnt doing enough).

I'm not sure I really see what the dishonesty or inconsistency is in that. Please can you point out anywhere he has said recently that the current govt is the cause?

Officialpdpnig:
You are confirming my own thoughts.

Atiku is not credible and should not have been our candidate.

Peter Obi is not going to be President . Atiku will not allow him to take the shine from him same way Obasanjo did not allow Atiku to take the shine from him.

Peter OBi right now is just a figurehead and will never cross that threshold.

Peter Obi did not say the truth. He simply granted an interview long before he was chosen as vice to Atiku. This video is an old one.

Today he is lying that this present FG is the reason for recession despite knowing that about a year ago he granted an interview where he clearly said PDP and himself inclusive were the reason for this economic downturn because the economy was already recessed when they were in power

He's simply playing politics today because he has to.

Officialpdpnig:
Peter OBi actually had this interview long before he was chosen to be a vice under Atiku. He never knew he would become vice and this video would be used against him whenever he begins to blame this present FG for the economic downturn.

Peter Obi is a turncoat and should not have been the vice to Atiku even though I was not surprised that Atiku chose him since the same Atiku has a penchant for making wrong decisions.

Obi is a principal reason Atiku presently has some credibility today; Obi is a principal reason several haters of pdp (like myself) have a soft spot for Atiku. He's the best choice Atiku could have ever made. If not for anything, saying the truth has never been a crime, so I see no reason you should criticise the man for sticking with the truth regardless.

OkaNaUbe:
Rotimi (Lootimi) Amaechi and other Governors are the reason that Jonathan didn't save the SWF. They clamored that the monies is shared to them and GEJ later gave in (wrong of him but he was seeking reelection and didn't want to offend Governors).

nzeobi:
those he blamed are still members of the APC, amaechi, aregbeshola and many of the APC governors insisted the money be shared and when it was done the used theirs to fund buhari's election and leaving their states in huge debt.

israelmao:
The adamant Ameachi who championed the sharing of excess crude oil fund is now in APC.

Wiseandtrue:
Rotimi Amaechi was the chairman of governors forum then and now, he is in APC.

Shall we say that he is the origin of the problem then

As I recall he opposed it vehemently!

emmie14:
Obi is blaming the governors which Rotimi Amaechi and Fashola is involved

Amaechi and Fashola = 36 governors right?

Obi who was live in the meetings said every single governor said NO, and that was even mainly because the FG was already deeping its hands into the collective purse, withdrawing and withdrawing without any explanations.

But now, according to some funny folks, governors automatically means Amaechi and Fashola (and to some others, Argbesola and Oshiomole). Those 4 men must have been very powerful to control the other 32 zombie governors (who were majority PDP) who had no opinions of their own. Infact they must have had some potent juju powers cos they also hypnotised GEJ the president then to squander the FG's large (52%) share of the money.

Meanwhile, the combined share of the ECA taken by these 4 guys wasnt even up to 5% of the total fund, but today you blame them for squandering the entire money? This has to be the lamest attempt at playing the blame game .

cc: Hush15

DeOTR:
I know how the industry is been run. However, you led me to believe the government made $112 billion between 2015 and now from the sales of oil alone, or what else do you want me to believe gets to the government purse from oil proceeds if not the royalty and tax?
Both APC and PDP are only after power and taking control of the nation's resources and nothing else.
For God's sake, APC had the opportunity to make a difference by reducing government overhead by 150% when they took control the FG. But what do you get when the party has no such ideology.

Haba! Of course if the govt made $112bn raw net income, Nigeria wouldn't be struggling to meet basic needs. The only relevance of mentioning that figure was to just enable a qualitative comparison between the past and present. The discussions on this thread centres on how the government is borrowing too much; my point was that due to the high cost of running the country, if the previous government that earned almost 4 times more income was struggling and had to borrow substantially to keep things afloat, then why should anyone really be surprised that the current govt which has earned far less is also borrowing substantially?

I totally agree with you though, the cost of running Nigeria is so so high with a massive recurrent bill every year. And that's one area I am disappointed in buhari, his inability to crash the cost of govt reasonably. Even if he cant adjust the figure swallowed by the rogues at the NASS, I believe there are still a thousand and one other ways a serious president can cut the cost of governance.

DeOTR:
You're lending credence to the fact that Buhari's much touted integrity is a farce.
So APC made $112 billion so far from oil alone?
Can you now tell us the budget since Buhari came on board, and how much we've been able to save of the amount?
Having it in mind that budget implementation has been very poor.
I hate it when this government tries to remind us how bad PDP government was. We know that already and that's why people voted for a change.
Except this government is spending outside the budget, the oil revenue is enough and the borrowings are unnecessary.

Lol... Are you by any means suggesting that the $112bn figure is fake?... By the way, before we proceed, when it is said that Nigeria sold oil worth $112 billion in the last 3 years, it doesnt necessarily mean the government made $112 billion in revenue. Only a tiny fraction of that amount gets to the purse of the govt as income in form of royalties and tax. I'm very sure you (and so many others) dont know this, so your questions above arent surprising.

Nigeria's budgets have been averaging about $22bn each year since 2015 and a budget is only a projection of what the givt hopes to get and to spend in tje fiscal year. Since 2015, the revenue target has never been hit, only roughly half of that amount is realised each year, a further amount is borrowed (to cover the deficit) but even at that, the $22bn total target has still never been hit. Hope you know that?

Meanwhile regarding the blames, the only reason people still remember or remind or even talk about how bad the previous givt was is because the loudest critics of the current govt are the very people who either belonged to the former govt, or were ardent supporters and praise singers of the former govt. You cant blame apc for always engaging in back and forth blame games talking about pdp. The reason is obvious, the day pdp players stop absurdly presenting themselves as competent patriotic saints who financially managed the country well and provided security, that day, the apc govt will stop responding with blames. It's common sense, the pot cannot be calling kettle black everyday and expect the kettle not to react.

PrecisionFx:
I'm sure ur from imo state, cuz that's the only place in Igbo land that u can find people that talk like u....


"" so you actually acknowledge that he met those 10 turbines and just pumped in some extra funds to progress on them?... You also agree that not all were completed after they left power.""

GEJ didn't pump in some extra money, He continued from the foundation of those power plants because OBJ never even completed the foundation (make calls n confirm this).

OBJ started those gas turbines 1 year before he left office so he did almost nothing. The project stalled under Yaradua because he said that there was no gas turbine built in northern Nigeria so he wanted to scrap the project. It took his sickness n a long term explanation for him to have dropped that idea. Stake holders kept explaining to him that the location of those plants was based on nearness to the fuel which is diesel or natural gas.

GEJ started the project in Ernest n took it to over 70% completion n that is a real project, Not the abracadabra magical project Buhari n the fake pastor have been deceiving Nigerians with today.


If Buhari invested as little as 2 billion dollars in that project, All those plants will be online at least generating 70MW each.

Lol... these Jonathanians, una too funny. Jonathan probably did everything good in Nigeria and is responsible for every single little progress Nigeria has recorded; others were either just pumping money into the sea (and into pockets), no single assets procured with the full $16bn, or some others are just incompetently looking on today and doing nothing. If you're, left alone, one day you'd even explain how Jona was the one who mounted the Sun in space.

Meanwhile, it's on record that that govt between 2010 and 2015 spent about $8.5bn on power. Within that same period, the power assets were privatized, suggesting that some of those funds should have been recouped (how much was recovered is story for another day). But even if we assume no kobo was recovered by the govt following the privatisation, abeg how does that $8.5bn account for the fact that the country grossed up to $380 billion in the period under review, an unprecedented high figure, but still borrowed up to $28bn and crashed foreign reserves by over $12billion?... This question must really be difficult to answer for you, but the real answer is obvious for those who keep doubting the financial recklessness of that govt.

Buhari clearly isnt doing a whole lot of things right, but in terms of fiscal responsibility, you really can't compare his govt to the last one. Make we try call spade spade abeg. If the last govt which earned over 3 times more than the current govt couldnt survive without borrowing, dont you think it is irrational (especially for those praising the last govt) to now crucify the current guys for borrowing despite?

He also reactivated the Makurdi, Enugu (largest in nigeria) and Aba NNPC depots.

How much was spent to reactivate these? was it up to N3 billion in total?

He built 33% of all the federal universities in nigeria just under 5 years.

Establishing universities is different from BUILDING universities. Out of those established new 12 universities, were up to 12 new university buildings added in total across the country?... Going to a place like Alvan Ikoku College of Education, and changing the name to Alvan Ikoku University of education without adding a single new building to the site (except repainted signboard and letterheads), is that the capital project that gulped hundreds of billions of dollars?

He built the first 6 gauge speed train in nigerias history, To connect Kaduna and Abuja. Im sure u know how much this kind of projects costs. He also reactivated so many other railline networks across nigeria.

Point of quick correction, the first standard gauge railway in Nigeria was the Ajaokuta to Warri line built to 90% by OBJ. Then regarding the Abuja to Kaduna project, it cost $875million in total out of which GEJ's government paid only the counterpart funding of only ~N60bn ($325million). For that project to even be completed, the govt of Buhari had to pay of outstanding sums of up to N17bn to cover several issues including compensation of affected landlords before ever CCECC could handover the project to Nigeria for commissioning. Today, the $500million loan for that project is being coughed out by the current government as loan servicing which is rendering our budgets impotent (but of course Buhari gets all the blame). Meanwhile, the current government is replicating a similar project from Lagos to Ibadan.

Bro please tell me, how do you explain that a government goes borrowing so much in the time of plenty? What are the so called mega projects that accounts for the huge incurred debts and reduction in reserves despite the more than 3x oil revenue?

PrecisionFx:
And did i say GEJ built any gas turbines from scratch?? , These dullard supporters are something else.

These Turbines were started by OBJ back in his regime and OBJ barely built anything there. He simply withdrew 16 Billion dollars for the power projects and the Money disappeared till this day. As we speak nigerians are still asking about the whereabouts of those monies to no avail. U said OBJ spent 16 Billion dollars on NIPP plants, LMFAO. @ 1.6 Billion dollars per plant and the plant remained an uncompleted abandoned project Oga let me clear u wella, You can goan ask people u have in the power sector to gist you on this matter. Under GEJ General electric was building the 10 NIPP plants at the same time, BEcause of that project they promoted and designated Nigeria as ''super customers'..........Stop making silly blind arguements.

Geregu Generation Company, Ajaokuta, Kogi State. Completed, commissioned by GEJ in 2013

Omotosho Generation Company, Omotosho, Ondo State. Commissioned by GEJ in 2014

Olorunshogo Generation Company, Olorunshogo, Ogun State. Commissioned by GEJ in 2014

Ihovbor Generation Company, Benin, Edo State. Completed, on grid, but not commissioned

Ogorode Generation Company, Sapele, Delta State. Completed, on grid, partially commissioned in 2014 by GEJ

Gbarain Generation Company, Gbarain-Ubie, Bayelsa State. Not completed, but one out of the two units on grid.

Omoku Generation Company, Omoku, Rivers State. Ongoing

Egbema Generation Company, Ohaji-Egbema, Imo State. Ongoing

Alaoji Generation Company, Aba, Abia State. Phase 1 completed, on grid, not commissioned.

Odukpani Generation Company, Odukpani, Cross River State. Completed, on grid, not commissioned

Then one of the turbines in Ibom Power (IPP) actually belongs to NIPP

Oh, so you actually acknowledge that he met those 10 turbines and just pumped in some extra funds to progress on them?... You also agree that not all were completed after they left power. But once again, according to your Jonathanian logic, "the $16bn OBJ spent on power was 100% looted, no single one of the expensive components like the turbines were procured. But when GEJ came in and pumped another $8bn, 100% of the work was done and completed; GEJ made it all well but Buhari came in and bombed all the beautiful works of GEJ, no wonder Nigeria still struggles to generate power beyond 4000mw till date. It's exclusively Buhari and Fashola's fault that we have no power irrespective of the $24bn spent by OBJ and GEJ.

The problem of Jonathanians = selective blindness, selective amnesia and selective sense application.

''even after he left power, most of those turbines couldn't still function''

Stop blabbing nonsense, It costs 1 Billion dollars to build a 1000MW gas turbine in nigeria (Over 3 Billion dollars to replicate the same in europe n americas). Do u think Power generation is building MTN Masts?? Now this amount is just to build the plant. The running costs to generate the actual electricity still averages 1 million dollars per 1MW and more Millions to install transmission stations

I'm struggling to grasp the relevance of this thing you wrote here. You agreed with me that they only pumped more money in to complete already ongoing power projects; you also agree that even at the time of handover, the projects were largely still incomplete (and are still being worked on by the current govt). But isn't that the point I already made above?.. What then is the essence of accusing me of blabbing nonsense, and then proceeding to repeat the exact same nonsense I blabbed?..smh! Meanwhile the $1m per MW you talked of, how come that defense only applies to GEj and not other leaders?

''during the week of handover, total generation crashed to about 1300mw''

U mean when the evil people stopped generating electricity and even announced that they do not have gas to power "Hydro power plants" ...........Use ur sense abeg.

Once again, what are you blabbing here? are you saying the opposition stopped gas from getting to power plants the week/month before handover?... Who are the evil people that stopped generating the electricity?

Meanwhile power generation crashes under GEJ, you blame it on opposition; today the same power supply crashes under the current government, you blame it on Buhari and Fashola's incompetence? ... And with this kind of reasoning, you actually advise me to apply sense? Which sense biko?... iberiberism sense?

tete7000:
Osinbajo was once an advocate of restructuring when he was on the other side of the divide, that is when PDP was in power and ACN was in opposition. Most Yoruba states then were advocating for restructuring because they felt left out of the party at the centre. In the current dispensation, Buhari has always insisted restructuring is never a thing to consider, as far as he is concerned, it is not even an issue on the table and since they belong now to the merriment, Tinubu and some other Yoruba yesterday champions of restructruring has since gone quiet.
Atiku came in and wants to explore the restructuring issue to garner vote, to which Osinbajo then issued the statement claiming he has been at the forefront of the debate and should not be treated as a no voice in the matter. The issue however is:'Yes he was once an advocate for restructuring, but his government is not, so his personal opinion does not count. Two, that he has been an advocate and now he is no longer does not mean that those who believe in the cause should stop talking for what they believe is right. Three, the fact that he once advocated for restructuring but stopped believing and advocating show he is just a typical Nigerian politician who simply explore issue when they are not the not the one benefiting from the status quo, once the status quo turns in their favor they abandon what they once felt is right.
However, to someone like me the issue of restructuring is one still very relevant to the Nigerian question and restructuring encompasses more than financial autonomy of states. If people are allowed to deliberate and talk, solutions can be sought to every problem. One person should not by fiat issue that people no longer talk on what they consider dear to their survival.

It's funny how Nigerians expect politicians to be saints. Why ruler or king would ever willingly reduce the size of his kingdom or water down the powers he wields?

In Nigeria today, the only a Niger Delta leader can actually restructure Nigeria and ensure regional control of resources, and the reasons are obvious. PDP was in power for 16 years and did nothing about restructuring. 2015, PDP loses power and restructuring suddenly becomes their new song. Any Nigerian expecting restructuring and power devolution to be done by any leader who isn't from the Niger Delta must be a dreamer. Dreaming is allowed though...

PrecisionFx:
GEJ received Billions of Dollars in revenue during his tenure and we all saw what those monies built. Under GEJ nigeria was building 10 gas turbines worth billions of dollars, totalling over 10,000MW at the same time and he was able to commission 6 of them before he left office.

He was also building 3 refineries at the same time, It was called the green oil initiative. One was located in Bayelsa, One in Kogi n the other one somewhere in the niger delta, I cant remember correctly.

He also reactivated the Makurdi, Enugu (largest in nigeria) and Aba NNPC depots.

He built the first 6 gauge speed train in nigerias history, To connect Kaduna and Abuja. Im sure u know how much this kind of projects costs. He also reactivated so many other railline networks across nigeria.

He built 33% of all the federal universities in nigeria just under 5 years.

Many more projects was ongoing across nigeria at that time, I cannot remember all of them.

GEJ cummulatively spend over 50 Billion Dollars in loans and from our reserves to develop nigeria. Without the 6 NIPP plants GEj built and added to the grid, We would still be at 2000MW now and u know exactly what that means to nigeria.

Buhari is doing nothing 4 years on.

Akuko ifo!

Kindly point out the so called 10 gas turbines that GEJ built from scratch and I would show you evidence that at least 9.5 of them existed before 2010 at various levels of completion. GEJ's government claimed to have spent an additional $8.5billion (to the $16bn spent by OBJ) on power but guess what? even after he left power, most of those turbines couldn't still function, that's why Nigeria still struggled with just over 4000mw 'generation capacity' as at May 2015; to reveal how bad things were, during the week of handover, total generation crashed to about 1300mw (that can be excused as a momentary setback though which even still happens today from time to time). Just for info by the way, Nigeria had a power generation capacity of almost 4000mw as at 2010.

After spending the about $8.5 billion in the power sector, the same government of GEJ also privatized the same assets. So please, how exactly does that $8.5billion (which largely should have been received back except of course you agree that the govt dashed them to cronies for free) account for the rest of the billions which we're talking about?

PrecisionFx:
Buhari has borrowed 30 Billion Dollars in 3 years and 5 months, Thats the issue at hand. He borrowed 30 Billion Dollars and yet nothing to show for it.

Are u suggesting that he borrowed 30 Billion Dollars, Paid it into an account and then withdrew 20 Billion Dollars and paid it back to our lenders 3 days later?

Lol... Bro na wa for you oo! Which kind of tata argument is this? What matters more? the amount of money I owe or the amount of money I borrowed?.. I borrowed 30bn and have paid you back 20bn, but you still go around town shouting 30bn? Is everything alright?

Meanwhile, APC between 2015 to date has received about $112 billion total from oil sales, the nation's overall debt has increased by over $10billion and despite the low revenue (due to low oil price/ production levels), the nation's reserves has been grown from ~$28.6bn to about $45 billion.

The PDP administration on the other hand between 2010 and 2015 made $381 billion from oil sales alone during a time of oil boom. Within the same period, Nigeria's overall debt increased by $29 billion (From $35bn to $64bn) and our foreign reserves dropped by from ~$42bn in early 2010 to $28.6bn in May 2015).

There's no doubt that the money borrowed and being borrowed by the current administration is disturbingly high, but at least they have a reasonable excuse that the nation's revenue is very low due to the oil crisis, and borrowing becomes inevitable to keep the nation afloat. But the big and valid question you should really be asking is, after enjoying an unprecedented oil boom between 2010 to 2014, why exactly was the government borrowing between 2010 and 2015? and why did savings drop significantly during a time of plenty? What are the tangible projects you can point out that swallowed all that money?.. alamanjiri primary schools?

PrecisionFx:
Stop fooling ur self sir.

Buhari has borrowed 30 billion dollars.

If someone borrows $30billion and has already paid back $20billion within the same time period, how exactly does that count as a $30billion debt problem?

4Play:
The VP is being disingenuous by using the dollar to report our debt. Most of the government's borrowing has been in Naira, so as the Naira lost value, it makes the debt value in dollar appear smaller.

A debt of N155bn in 2014 equates to $1bn then and around $500m today (using the official exchange rate). So even if you double the debt by borrowing another N155bn making it N310bn, the dollar value of the debt is still circa $1bn at the official exchange rate, even lower if you use the market exchange rate.

Nigeria is sadly just full of poorly educated youths, reading through threads like this just proves it and keeps one depressed.

3 pages already gone, yet you are the only person who was smart enough to pinpoint the trick used by the VP in his speech. Everyone else just keeps screaming lies, lies, lies, throwing insults, shouting fake pastor bla bla bla etc., but none of these people had the mental capacity to point out what the so called lie in the statement was. If you ask them to point out the lie, instead of a response, you might just be leaving with a barrage of insults.

One person even posted the image of a chart and screamed "lies", but he obviously couldn't interprete the figures in his beautiful chart to know that it actually lends credence to the VP's statement. Nigeria's educational system really needs a revolution.