₦airaland Forum

@~Lady~[Quote]
Forgive me but I actually thought the covenant was made in Abraham's day and not Muhaaamad. Wouldn't that make it the past?[/quote]I thought the tone is pretty clear? God is reminding them that under the benefit of the Primary covenant with Ibrahim, they were favored. Now the covenant is still on going as the final leadership is now a new prophet, their cousin. They should come into the fold and enjoy the favor, instead of spiritually off the track. Afterall, God who took idolatry from Makka is merciful enough to still over all people, and especially the other branch of Ibrahim's bloodline to come back to the fold of mercy.

They should be the ones who should be the first on the lead that lead to the worldwide means of mercy, under the leadership of M.u.hammad.

[Quote]
Then show me the favour bestowed upon the Arabs. Because the Qu'ran speaks of those of the Children of Isrealites.[/quote]The biggest of favors is I.sl.am. Others may include the relative ease that wealth comes to them. Let me amuse you; The Jews of the world always say about the journey of Prophet Moses, that if only he has traveled a little further east or so, he ould have brought them to the lands under the arabs now. A land rich with Oil that the whole world can do without. Don't take my world for it, ask an American Jew. That should be easy for you.

The door of Is.l.am, a meabns of Mercy from God is wide open.

[Quote]
The sign of the convenant is circumcision of Isrealite males. There were Gentile males or other males in the world that were not circumcised. Actually it does. If God asks me to worship him by bowing to him, and I do bow, then that means I worship him. Bowing here is the sign and worship is the covenant. They refused to accept Jesus because they did not understand Jesus, just as you do not. Jesus called himself the messiah and they were expecting the messiah to come on a chariot and rain fire and brimstone on the heads of the Romans. They expected a "worldly" champion, instead they received a champion of God. So they refused him because he didn't meet their expectations.
The circumcision doesn't show that they should accept Jesus. The circumcision was to show their devotion to God. Not to the "prophets" (for the sake of this discussion, Jesus will be a "prophet" So them refusing Jesus doesn't mean they refuse to show their devotion. They circumcised even in the day of Moses, but weren't completely accepting of him. Aaron and his wife challenged Moses too.[/quote]All you put up is very interesting. Moses, with all the wonderful works through him, he never claimed that he was the one working the process. He did not arrive to them as a liberator on Chariot either, rather as a refugee. And finally, i understand Jesus. But not the way that you understand him. And Arabs, never at one time never stop the rite of male circumcision. All m.u.sl.im born are circumcised.Its interesting that you forgot, unless that younever read it that Ismail was circumcised along with his father, Ibrahim. And all of this was before Isiaq was ever born. I guess we know who the sign of the covenant was and who the only son could ever be applied to.

You should know as a first child. Can any of your younger siblings be called the only child?

[Quote]
Sorry that is where Christianity comes in. But you're trying to prove to me that the covenant was with the Arabs and not the Isrealites. So continue with it and stop bringing the spread of Is'lam into it.[/quote]Never have I said that the arabs are exclusive on the covenant, against the other branches of the Children of Ibrahim. Rather, it is the Jews and the Christians who excluded the Arabs and called "Innocent Ismail, eben from Childhood," wild! A demeaning word or expresasion upon a little child of a beloved prophet who never stopped loving him.

My dear, the story is more than the esoteric application that we are giving it, as a gloss over on Nairaland. How can the son of a wonderful prophet like Ibrahim be wild ass? Can you tell us if this child ever recorded to have done any evil? If you can not, then think whether the prophesy of such a horrible name like that fits him and very importantly was never fulfilled on him. That shows that there are prophesies that are wrong or miss the mark, in the Bible. Afterall, Ismail (as) is dead!


 
@debosky (m)

So now you stylishly agree that Ibrahim as you call him got the covenant with the Jews?  

What happened to the story that Issac was the son of Hagar and Ishmael the legitimate child?

How come the Mus-lims have no accounts of the life of Moses, Noah, Abraham and co except from the historical records kept and maintained by the jews, only to have one Quaraish Mohammadu to come re-mix the entire story and put a 'mus-lim' spin on it?

In the words of illustrous Ijebu Ode son, David, I will like to ask you what is it that you are talking about? You are completely off course, and what you are saying is not in line with anything any M.us.lim have said here, or ever believed.

@~Lady~:

TheVirginShallBeWithChildAndBearASonAndShallNameHimImmanuel

It only proof that his birth was foretold along with his name. Nothing else. But it is ironic that the christians abandoned this name for a lesser impressive name, Jesus!

Why? And when you peel off the layers and get to the core of the name Immanuel, even in the Original semitic language, you will find no meaning other than its just a name. "God with us," does not mean God is the person named.

@~Lady~: The trick is that Christians are not of this world? And yet they live in it? And when they are facing death you see them saying that they don't wanna die?

Give me a different trick, again, woman.

@~Lady~: Listen to the tone of the Qu.r'a.n about the Children of Israel.

Surah 2:41
O Children of Israel! remember My favours which I bestowed upon you, and fulfil your covenant with Me, I will fulfil My covenant with you, and Me alone should you fear.

Surah 2:48
2:48] O Children of Israel! remember My favours which I bestowed upon you and that I exalted you above the peoples of the time

The tone is past tense. They were bestowed a favor, a covenant under th bigger covenant which was earlier with Ibrahim. The favor and covenant with them had conditions for the fulfillment and the continuity. Read it again. And when Prophet Mu.ha.mmad came to th stage of prophethood, you will realize that he was honest to remind his "Cousins," the Jews thefavor of God on them in the time past.

Now that they are not exclusively the holder of the favor to propagate the Oneness of God to Mankind, they were yet, again required to come to the fold of the the new bringer of the good stewardship, under the New Leader, M.uh.ammad! They were still children of Ibrahim regardless of the power shift to the new leadership, who is a child of Ibrahim from a different branch!

The favor and covenant did not come excluding the original relationship with Ibrahim. Afterall, th sign of the covenant is circumcision of males. The sign does not neccesarily means that one fulfills the essense of the covenant. Even today they circumcise their males, yet even in the time of Jesus, they refused to accept him. Your point is not good enough.

Finally, when you quote the truth to justify a cnotinum of favor and covenant with the Israelite, you should read the Qu.r'a.n to see that God terminates the "ethnic" based favor, as Isl.a.m became a complete religion that is Universally commanded upon all, and th rejection of all other ways, religions, etc.

Answer my next questions.

If the covenant was with Ishmeal, why are the Prophets from Isaac's bloodline?
So God would make a promise to Frizy, but give it to Olabowale?

No m.u.slim ever said the covenant was with Ismail. God's covenant(s) is with Ibrahim. It cover his children; all of them the first and at some time the only child, even though he was from the second wife. It also covered the second child, even though he was from the older wife. It also covered other children from other wife or wives. A child never ceases to be the child of the father, even when he casually disowns him. The wife of the father or the other brothers are not in the position to dictate the bloodline of a child with his father. It just does not work that way.

Did Jesus say that he would die and rise again?

I don't know what Jesus said, since we have conflicting statements from him ad those who put words in his mouth after he was raised up. You see that no one from the early christians said that Jesus told him to erase from the Bible that he was just a man, a prophet, a messiah to the house of Israel, only. If Jesus is more than what the M.us.lims said that he is, the proof of it would have been erase from the Bible, even before Muhamm.ad got the revelations.

It is not possible that Jesus would contradict himself: Saying one thing will alive and saying the other to human being afterwards from heaven. In heaven, where no one could see him. It will be hard press for anyone to believe that he now change his story. He had three years of gospel preaching of the kingdom of heaven to tell people about his true position. What he said then was the truth; The ones that contradict what was Paul and company's after thought.

@4Him: No. A pig just flew or thrown into your apartment, through the window. Where it comes from you dont know. But quick, make pork chop, back ribs, sausages and franks, bacons and others from it. And the skin make rhines, and the snaut, and the others, do what you will. And the fatback is full of lard. But be sure it all gonna make you sick; high blood pressure and all the crazy things.

My advice is that you should feed it to the black bears. Don't eat it.

@~Lady~: I will then accept that its a Yoruba thing. I am certain that the Bini people are not Yoruba (lol).

@Sheniqua: Not quite three wives, yet. But am also entitled to four. There are openings. But I do not conduct the usual "Christian audition!" lol. You know what I mean: getting pregnant first, before marriage.

And as I enjoy your your joke, I do not forget that that I do not have any wife who dialogue on Nairaland. Unless you know something I don't know. I am waiting for your response about how you could fish out Praise Yahwey from Alleluia. I waont to know, sisi.

The banbara people of Africa have a proverb about women: "Muso kawa ko", they say. lol.

And I remain a 9ja. And from all I know there is no Bambara tribe in 9ja.

@Davidylan: My truth, 100% of it is in AlQu'r'a.n, in pure Arabic. 100%.

@Davidylan: You make too much noise, man. Yet you are not defending anything with any "truth," because what you have is lie.

Jo. Je ki nsimi.

@Sheniqua: Two things that I am concerned about, and you can call it beefing about, if that suites you:
There was an on going thread, of a different title, which I responded to. Now the title kinda cange after my entry.
There was a dialogue already for many days or entries before I entered my very first post. All those disappeared.

All of a sudden the thread chnged title to something of a catchy phrase, which is tailor made for my post. And at the same time all those "christian" initial entries disappeared! If I startd the thread, I will be okay with it. But now you coyly states that as far as you are concerned I am the starter of the thread. Am simply stating that you see what a simple change of original conditions can bring to people who do not know the original truth, as it was with the original set of circumstances?

My darling, put that to use in the new condition of how "Trinity" was formulated, disregading the Old and original sets of condition that pointed to its impossibility.

I see that you are amusing me. I am already laughing. But it does not change the Orginal condition which is the truth.

On March 30, 2008, David (4Him), responded to my piece of the day before on the thread titled, "How Israel Ethnically Creansed Palestine." David was pointing out to me what Alleluia means, including the sematic letters that form it. They are the same letters, concidentally that form Arabic word, "A .ll a h!" Please go and check it yourself. Yet you guys always say that Alleluia means Praise Yahweh! But in its three Alphabets, we can not even see Yahweh and it is impossible, therefore to see Praise Yahweh in it! Try it and it is an amazing truth. I hope you will see it.

And the tombs of the beloved of God are not "traps." Adam is not trapped. Idris is not trapped. Noah is not trapped. Ibrahim is not trapped. Do I have to spell it out for you any further?

And there ae many who are not in the grave who are trapped: Shaitan is a glearing example. And according to the Bible, Jesus is not the only one who was raise up to heaven! And finally, according to the Bible, Melchesdekes was before Jesus. Melchesdekes was described as the king of salem who no one knew his beginning and no one saw him died, while he was reported to have blessed Abraham (God, I hate using that word for Khalil of A.l.lah. But am talking to Nasarah, so am forced to use it, reluctantly.) on his return from a mission. Now from the Bible itself, we can see that Melchesdekes is greater that Jesus, since death is the yardstick for this greatness.

If you coyly now bring Jesus as Melchesdekes, which I believe you will try, then you will have to explain, how Jesus appeared as him, before he was born?

Yet when he was born as Jesus by Mary, he continued to appear as Melchesdekes and remain to be so on earth through out the life and death of Jesus and including presently?

You will now have to explain when you claim that Jesus was crucified, was Melchesdekes also crucified and died, while the Bible still holds the belief that Melchesdekes never was overcame by death?

You will still have to explain where is Melchesdekes on earth now, where is he living since Jesus is no more on earth, considering that you do not actually know Jesus condition, presently outside this world?

Come to think of it, if Jesus was Melchesdekes, then he would have appeared to hve lived on earth and heaven, simultaneously, while Jesus was not yet born by Mary. And when he was born by Mary, he would have 2 persons living as him on earth; Melchesdekes and Jesus! And when he was lifted up, then he would be living on earth and in heaven, as before he was born! You see your confusion? You remind me of Fela's old time tune title "Confusion."

Finally, if Jesus is not Melchesdekes, then you will have him with the 3 of your trinity, making it now 4! Now explain that?

Eyin omo 9ja, Orishi rishi yin ti poju. Where is Mrpataki. lol

Imhotep: I swear by God who created me and has 100% control over my affairs. The God who knew my beginning, my present and my future. Again, I swear that Mu.ha.m.m.ad is greater. M.uh.ammad prophesy that Jesus will come on earth and lives and dies, will happen. And when it happens, it will be a testimony to his prophethood. Those in the future will witness the event.

But you would have died and rotten. And you would have missed the promise of the Creator on Jesus through His final Messenger. However, by then, you would have seen your place of abode. A place that you can't exchange, becaue it is a forgone conclusion.

And for those who think that struggling until victorious is a bad thing, am sure Trial and tribulation is also bad in your eyes. David, this is directed to you directly, with a little of it to ~Lady~.

@Imhotep:

Moh@mmed is in the grave. But Jesus is not in the grave. What can you learn from this?

That death will reach every one. It had taken the soul of the best of all craetions, Mu.h.amm.ad. It will reach the soul of Jesus in the futue. And those of you tootie fruittie fruit of the loom who think that you will not die and be raptured, you are the biggest liars and all in deceit. How about them apples?


[Quote]
Te Deum laudamus, Te Dominum confitemur,
Venerendum Patris, omnis terra veneratur,
Tibi omnes angeli, tibi caeli et universae postates
Tibi cherubim et seraphim; incessabili voce proclamant:
Sanctus, sancuts, sanctus
Sanctus Dominis Deus sabaoth,
Pleni sunt caeli et terra, majiestatis gloriae Tuea.[/quote]It that Hebrew or Hebrew national hot dog? You are completely wrong to be quoting anything other that Sematic language here. You goofed.


[Quote]
I repeat:[/quote]You are completely wrong and you are on your own to face the consequences.

I just saw this ==> "Next to Moh@mmed's tomb, there is another empty tomb that M-uslims believe awaits Jesus. "

Taken from here ==> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophet_Mohammed#Death

( I did not write the wikipedia article, you know)

---------------
So, while Jesus [who is Prophet, Teacher, King, Priest, God-The-Son] presently stands in the presence of God;
Moh@mmed's body is still in a tomb.

Now, tell me, sincerely, who is greater?

It shows that you are very gullible. You will fall for anything. Jesus will definitely died and will be buried like all believing mankind, Mu.sl.im.

@Backslider: You are on yor own, with m_nwankwo.

@Imhotep:

I just saw this ==> "Next to Moh@mmed's  tomb, there is another empty tomb that M-uslims believe awaits Jesus. "

Taken from here ==> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophet_Mohammed#Death


---------------
So, while Jesus [who is Prophet, Teacher, King, Priest, God-The-Son] presently stands in the presence of God;
Moh@mmed's body is still in a tomb.

Now, tell me, sincerely, who is greater?

Lair, Imhotep. Where in Masjid Al Nawawi is the fouth, but the only empty grave? You and your fallacy. El stupido, El niggaragua! However, Alla.h says in Surah Azhab that believer should give Salaam to His Prophet, if the believer knows what benefits him. And in hadith the prophets said that when a person gives salaam to him, the Lord of all things returns his soul to him, so that he can return the salaam. And anywhere a person gives salaam to the prophet the Angel brings to him. Now what a great honor that miracles are still performed on Mu.h.ammad (as), even as he is in the grave.  Allahumma seli wa selim wa baraik, alla seyidina Muha.mm.ad, abibana, wa rasulikka.

Allahumma salli wa saleem wa baraik alla sayidina Muh.amm.ad. Slata, alabd, al hahir, al utasg, allzhi tajah min zhil kathi wa harajin, wal tajaha bilah ba bikah al Kariim,  safutiat lahu abuwabu al farj. Kulun Umma Mu.hamma.d (Amin).

I can not tell you anything about what you said. I will not touch it even with a trillion foot pole. Howeve if you die in your belief, I leave your humiliation to God. The Only One who could humiliate anyone and all. And no one can challenge Him.

@JeSoul: So should I come to Boston for the party. I can eat Imhotep's share of the cake. Am sure he would not mind it. I can eat Christian food. Except the pork, in a normal situation. If by neccesity, there is no sin in it. Wish you a great day. Am sure you are going to turn 21, again. Whatever it is, its a good age.

@Sheniqua, Stillwater, ~Lady~, Cayon: Read what is now the initial post of this thread. You should be able to see that the tone of my post is more of a response to a question. The question was in this same thread, but an earlier post. As you know, we have some very manipulative people here on Nairaland. They are very savvy about the computers. It is somebody from this group of Computer Gurus who cancelled post ahead of mine, and change the name of the thread. I think that the initial post was what was the name of God or something similar. I am not sure anymore about the exact text.

The reality is that the people who make it seemingly seem as if i started the thread are "magician." And you belive them. Why would i deny what i did? None of you is in the position to escoriate me. And that is a fact.

And ~Lady~ Yah now stands for Yahweh? Is that shorthard or what? I get it, the Jews don't want to say Yahweh, in the same breath the never say the word Yahweh, even if you force them to. The say way some people will write G-d to mean God.

Come on woman. You know thats very lame. If God does not want mankind to know His name or mention it, He would never have told anyone His name. And mentioning His name is not a sign of disrespecting Him. If that amounts to any disrespect you Christians and the Jews will never have uttered the word Yahweh aloud.

And my not being a Jew and speaker of hebrew ia a better quality on me, since I know that God's name in Yebreh/ Aramaic is Eloh; consisting of three letters, Alif, Lam and Hah. Yahweh is something different. What happens to Jeovah then? You see, from the three names, Eloh, Yahweh and Jehovah, one of them must be a proper name of the One True God. Which is it? It will be hard press to find Yahweh in Aleluah!

@Huxley:

Can you explicate all this again with respect to the thousands who have recently died in Burma and China? Did god ordain them to die in this fashion?

With all your googleing, ordain should be a word that isvery easy for you to find. No one is supposed to die in a flood will die in the desert, except there is an unusual amount of rainfall therein. That is an example of "ordain" by God. It means it has been decided.

Please go sidon, 9ja man. Your wayo is very clear to all of us. You like to play innocent when it suits your insincere heart.

Seriously, analyse the verse of the new testament to me, where Jesus said he came to fulfill the laws (Mosaic laws). And immediately states that even a jot will not be left on fulfilled by him. And finally warned that who ever discards it and encourage others to discard this (Mosaic Laws), that person and I suppose that theone who discards it are going to be known as least in the kingdom of heave.

Here are your question:
Anyone who does not obey this Jesus commandment and therefore discards the Mosaic laws that Jesus himself fulfilled, can that person be called a true follower of or obedient to Jesus?

Can anyone who disregards/discards Mosaic Laws, considering Jesus injuctions against it, can that person be a person of Paradise?

Can that person escape going to hellfire, at least for disobeying Jesus? Then discarding Moses Laws which Jesus himself obeyed and warned against any disobedience thereof?

Can least in the kingdom of heaven be anything but hellfire?

Do you know any christian alive today who is obeying Jeus in this regard, since the law of Moses is clearly talking about nothing, except that God Almighty is One, and clearly not 3 or anything human?

Struggle with your answer. I want a sincere answer! When you come to a conclusion, you will see that the Bible records that Jesus said that he will tell people to get away from him in the day of Judgement. He said that he does not know them. Even as they said to him that they had on the earth before prophetized and performed miracles in his name. Those very people are the 100% population of christians. They are the people who use his name instead of the name of his Creator since they invented Trinity wherein they make him god.

@Huxley:

How many people are killed yearly in Mecca as they go to serve their god?

I guess when you die, which is certain, regardless of the number, 1 person, it will be chalked up as a desaster? And by the way the Deity that M.us.lim serve is a God. I don't know where you find a (g) that you are trying to stamp on us. What do you think we are? People who move the goal post, ever shifting their (deity's) definition? We do not worship imagery or anything you can see or conceptualize.

This is Is.la.m and we are not idolators. You with your wayo. You are almost like KAG who is using his orientalist definition to describe M.us.lim. I almost wanted to ask him to tell me who should the one that best define and who who Mu.slims are; the m.us.lims or him a disbeliever in Higher Power?

And Huxley, there is no death except tha God ordained it. And a person or thing dies where and when and how it is ordained to die.

@Davidylan: When I am angry at you I will call you 4Him. But will always be David to me , Davidylan. And by the way, was not the language of Rome Italian and in its pure matriculated form, Latin? I believe Rome was the ruler of the land where Jesus was born, before during and at the time you claimed that he was crucified. Were the Were the Romans speaking a different language than Latin/italiano? Was Spain not a country at that time and speaking a derivative of the Latin language of Europe? Why is latin a collection of languages which includes Spanish? Why are the latin people of America mainly Spanish, even extending to the Americas. Have you heard of Latin America, David?



[Quote]
Mention just 3 of these "prophets" and please DO NOT reference the bible.
If you cannot then YOU sir are a LIAR and a HYPOCRITE.[/quote]And after this, then you are the hypocrite and and liar? The prophets are Hud, Saleh, and Shuaib (as to all of them). You asked for the three and you got them? Now what? And I have not mentioned the granddaddy of all prophethood and messengership, (the noblest of them. And he is not a Bani-Israil.

Mention JUST 3. Again do not reference the bible.

Adam, Idris and Noah (as to all of them). They are all before Ibrahim (as). And I had mentioned three others before him, above.

Mention JUST 3 non-jewish prophets.

I think we are discussing trinity/triun here. All of a sudden you get stung by threes? Come on David. Agba ni tara mi.
Ibrahim, Ismail, and Isiaq (as to all of them) None of them was a Jew. Do you even know who the first generation of Jews were, or when the term was used to denote ethnic or religion?

It is not clear from anything. The qu'ran says nothing of the sort, the bible NEVER calls ishmael a prophet, we do not have ANY prophecy from him . . . he does not have a single book written about him or what he worshipped . . . so what really is clear? Your deciet?

Surah Ambiyya. Read it.  First it is clear that he worshipped in the same way as his father Ibrahim. And I wonder what Books written by John and his fathe Zachariah are called? Yet they were Prophets(as to both father and son). Afterall, the son was good enough to baptize Jesus, your god.  Who really is the greater the one who was baptized or the one who did the baptism? You are just exposing the house of cards of Christendom and its book.

I asked a question earlier, about the laws and commandments of Moses that Jesus himself obeyed in fulfilments. The same laws and commandments that he warned that should be kept and said those who disregard it will be the least in the kingdom of heaven. I asked backslider if to be least is not equal of being condemn its usage here. Can you shed light on it for me, since Jesus will say to some Christians in the day of Judgement that he does not know them? And those people will be telling Jesus but they healed and did good miracles by his name, but he will not listento them.

Do you not see that all of the people who go against this Jesus warning about disrespecting the laws ad rules of Moses could actually be the people who will go to hellfire here, the least in the kingdom of heaven? You know that could be practically the whole of Christendom and least in the kingdom can never translate to be any part of paradise you know.

who shut this door? When did al'lah earn the authority to shut doors on the prophets of the God of the bible?
What temerity.

A.ll.ah Ta'ala. He always have the authority. He says in His Book, ' They plan, and A.l.lah plans. And Al.lah is the Best of Planners (Those who plan)."


[Quote]
The bible manuscripts were written in greek, aramaic, syriac and hebrew. Languages that were in active usage in the early 1st century biblical period.[/quote]See how terrible your understanding of your own book is? The first language that you wrote is greek? You have relegated the Semitic languages listed after it as secondary and unimportant. Tell me was Greek the laguage of which Prophet now? Jesus? You are on your own here.

Wouldn't have been interesting that the Yorubas conduct their cultural affairs in English, or Igbo or Hausa? Wouldn't it be interesting that Igbo people use Yoruba language to tell their own story and their "proverbs" which they are very eloquent in? Would the proverbs of the Igbo people carry the same weight in the hearts of the Igbo people if they use English to tell it amongst themselves? Even ~Lady~ who is a Bini will not tell Edo story in Yoruba, if she speaks it or in the English language she has mastered. Yet the Bini people have the same culture, almost totally as the larger yoruba people. She was reminding me the other day that the Binis are forebearers of the Yorubas. I dare not disagree with her.

The point is this, how is great the language that you chose first when it comes to a succession of revelations given to Sematic people? See the dishonesty here? I hope your heart can grasp the meaning.

Oh thou dull of hearing and hard of heart . . . the bible in English, Italian, Spanish are merely translations so that we who do not speak hebrew or aramaic may understand what is written therein. Original biblical manuscripts are in Hebrew, aramaic, syriac and greek. Do a google search old man.

I do not have to google for this. Simply present me with a 1000 year old copy of the Bible. I will present something older than 1000 years old of the Q.ur'a.n. Then you will see where your difficulty is.

Since when did your own "god" become someone YOU mere mortal can dictate how he shld or shld not appear?

In all the times that God dealt with the people of the earth, there was not a single time that he walked the surface of the earth. He can control the affairs of His creations without being one of the creations. Can't you operate the computer without being in the computer or becoming a computer? And yet you are saying the Unique Lord God Almighty Creator will have to become a human to understand and or forgive humans?

Why not leave our exagerations alone and face your contradictions?

It is my love for you that drive me to warn you of the dire consequences of your belief.




@~Lady~: I wish you well. Hope your yesterday was memorable.

I don't understand why u and the rest of the muuuuslim posters, most especially Frizy, are still thinking that this gospel is true. It is not.
I am writing to you because you seem to be the only sensible one in the group.

So here is what I will tell you.

The Gospel is most definitely fake.

Barnabas was not a disciple of Christ. He was not among the 12
The script was written in Italian and Spanish. Those languages were not spoken around the time he walked the earth. hE DIDN'T write it.

I don't understand why u guys are trying desperately to cling to the false truths. If you're so desperate to spread the truth, please let it actually be the truth.
Just because something supports your idea doesn't mean that it is true. It may have been fabricated.
Especially since the gospel does not go in line with the other gospels, the other gospels were written by the disciples or direct followers of them.

Seriously it wouldn't make sense for me to write a script about Islaam in Italian and the Christians call it truth because everyone knows that Islaaam does not acknowledge any other language but Arabic. So it wouldn't make sense that u all are trying to cling on to a script that COULD NOT have been written by the alleged author.

Let it go. It's not truth. Simple as that.

You don't get it, do you? For me it is a direct pointer that there are varied opinion to devinity of jesus. All of them, since they are not all agreeing with the other view point(s), can not be correct. My question to you is that could it not be that somebody exagerated here? Is memorex equalsto live? Is maybe equals actually? Is fantasy equals to reality? Is fallacy equals to truth? Can human equals to God?


@Cgift: Okare. She bi won she nsoma raisi ni yen? lol.

Nice summary

Nice summary, indeed. Those who fall for this kind of slapstick bit, will fallfor anything, but truth. Its like the magicians have hypnotised you with enchanting words of Bibbidy babbady boo.

@Huxley

You guys have completely missed the thrust of my post. I was making argument for the existence of evil. The Argument for Evil (AE) is one of the strongest and unsettling challenge for conventional theism. It basically states - if there is a benevolent god, then how come all the evil and suffering in the world. Either there is no god(s) OR the gods such as may exist are indifferent to the plight of his creation - hence the occurence of evil.

We understand the thrust of your post. And in I.s.la.m, it is well known that there exist good and evil. Evil exists among jinns, man, and animals. The Benevolent God provides us the road map.blue print to live a good and obedient life. he provides warnings against doing evil and the reward of such terrible deeds. Why do you thing thae Mu.sli.ms believe that there is paradise and there is hellfire?

And there is antidole against experiencing evil. First there are places before and after Mynamar that were afflicted by what afflicted Mynamar. And surprisingly, not all of Mynamar got hit. The world didnot perish by the desaster that occured in Mynamar. And so that you know, some part of the US just suffered some desasters as well.

As to the indifference of God, the truth is that some people were spared from death in all of the desaster in Mynamar. By thisdesaster, I am certain God has provided a means of improving those who survived it. Now they will build homes that are better suited for the destructions that they just experienced. We see from experience that humans learn and improve their suitablility on the conditions they have to deal with, from their experiences.

You can not blame God nor should you doubt His existence because humans experiencing desasters. Afterall, some are what we bring upon ourselves. I will not build homes with woods for example, but that does not mean that my home should be concrete cement blocks. There are other materials that are strong and rated for capability to withstand all the possibilities of calamities in each diffrent areas of the world. Yet the materials may be relatively inexpensive and affordable.

My point is that god has provided an antidote for all that may be burdensome to our existence. Even for every desease, there is cure. We just have to find it. The cure for denial is facing up to reality. The cure for ignorance of God which is what you suffer from (am sorry to say, ol boy), is asking yourself, could all of these have occurred if there is no God to make it happen and guide it?

@KAG; Seriously, you need to rethink your position. You will see why in a minute.

That's nice, except, in quantum fluctuations, virtual particles 1 2 are potential somethings from nothing. The quantum world is notoriously counter-intuitive.

"Potential" is not "actual." The fact that something may look like something or even look like something, is not a proof that it is. There are tremendous example that I can give you: Artificial sweeters of verious types are not sugar from Sugarcane. Although, it may even have the same nutrional values and crystalization (not really, but am exciting you to think and understand), the truth is that they have different distinct sources. You have not seen Virtual particles 1 and or 2 before. The scientist theorist just provide a seed of this potential possibility. For it to make any sense, you have to hav a completely controlled "vacuum enviroment," which is impossible. If it were possible, them for a particle to form and appear from this nothingness. You have agreed that it is not possible because of your usage of potential as a word to qualify the something from nothingness.

Which is why I said I do understand metaphors. You did it wrong.

I see that your thinking is not as deep. Maybe you have carried the water on the Evolution mumbo jumbo to long. You need a change of concept. If your non god can help you it is time you try The One true God.

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No, you said "humans and others" that includes and demands an indication of the processes in other organisms. Again, how or why would humans evolve to breathe in CO2? Do you understand how evolution works?[/quote]The reason I am asking you to talk about human evolving to 'super humans,' breathing C02 is to let you proof to us that man can still advance. Afterall, human are not perfect being, yet. Are we, because we should be able to defeat single handedly all that have potentials to defeat us. The body of human is not 100% efficient, vis a vias imput and output ratio.

Even common singular celled organism, like the ebola virus do kill humans very quickly. My question to you, again, is that which being are we going to evolve to? When?

If I simply go along with your C02 process, I could easily turn it around that you should tell us when will this organism will evolve to breathing in 02 or others or even what is even more abundant to them, and abandone the C02, for it?

We see that lions and other flesh eaters die of in the time of scarcity of their praeys. But they have plenty of trees and other grasses, why have'nt they evolved to a better adaptable animals suitable to thrive in this strange conditions? Intead their populations dwendle down dramatically. No pregnancy for new birth could be reported at this time.

And I wonder why crocodile and other water animals like that can not survive for a long time win places without their God designed appointed enviroments?

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Actually, proof is for maths and liquor. Theories, however, do require evidence. Yes, I indicated that more than one conception of planetary formation exists. No, the initial expansion didn't cause planetary formation - it came long afterwards. There are several hypotheses regarding the singularity; the most pervasive, however, is string theory. No, the singularity didn't have weight (I've told you that on more than one previous occassion. Keep up), as gravity must have appeared after inflation and expansion. I don't know what you're talking about with thermal change, as there was great amount of heat after the expansion of the Universe. Several elements came into being in the instance of the Universe's first moments because of the conditions[/quote]Listen to yourself, talking about hypothesis (outside the subject matter of math; i am following your lead because I did not include physics, etc). I want you to go back to a time before "Universe's first moments," to provide "evidence" of no need for the presence of GOD. If you notice, you said moments and conditions about Universe. It point to the theorem that many things of different forms, rates of completions and nature, etc happened at the same period of time. Yet you can not see the Power of a Mightier Entity in this? But of course you have not provided evidences to what the none matter/vacuum state was before this nothingness all of a sudden change to "Universe first moments/conditions?" As I have said, KAG, provide evidence, but please provide how you came about without any part of your "Human Parents?" It is very easy to postulate, but the Evidence of the pudding is in the eating.


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That's nice, except that's not how science works. First, most of what you've been asking about have nothing to do with evolution (as in the theory of evolution which the moniker of "evolutionist" refers).[/quote]You just don't get it. I am not ignorant of Science. But thats beside the point. But am not interested the supposed theories and hypothesis, where there are no (proof) Evidences. Theories are good without evidences with those whose mind are fickled. Well, am not.

Second, science theories are always challenged. That's an important aspect of science. The challenge happen by people who tend to know what the hell the theories are and what they entail, not some almost retarded person on the internet with a poor grasp of even basic knowledge.

Lol. I guess a disagreement with you will bring your evil side. I guess when you evolve you will evolve to that Mr. Hype personality. For me you and your theorists are just seeking attention, without any possible of validation from the rest of the world. Of course the thought of the fact that you can eliminate God out of the equation of your existence is good enough for you. Yet you have no control of what will happen to you in your distant future. Or when you will die, or even though you were present, but you did have the experience or remember during your birth.

How old are you now? You see how quickly we forget? Just imagine therefore how forgetful mankind is towards the Creator?

Third, if you really were interested, as a layman, to understand the different theories, you wouldn't keep making the same basic errors at every turn and refusing to acknowledge answers that specifically address the things you clearly need to understand.

I dont fall for everything, and that is the reason i call myself a layman. I do not need you or the evolutionist to tell me who God is or is not. My heart and soul already acknowledge His presence. I am a firm believer in Creation and that the Creator has provided in us all elements and processes for our adaptabilities to our conditions until death overtake us.

Finally, I have never said that humyn beings know everything. However, that shouldn't be an excuse to refuse to sate some of our curiousities, nor does it mean that it is evidence of gods.

And in all there is no evidence that there is no God either. In your curiousity, you should have known that there is a place called Egypt, even if you disbelief every other evidence of existence of One Powerful God. In the land of Egypt, there used to be a king Pharaoh in the time that Moses was a 40 year old man . In a nutshell, this king was defeated along with his army, by drowning in the read sea. Moses was able to lead the people who followed his authority through and out of the sea to the otherside. Moses claimed that he was God messenger for this. Notivce that I did not say a (god). This God saved Moses and the defenseless followers with him, while the King and his well equiped army perished in the same sea.

The sea was a source of victory for Moses and his followers and the same see became at an instant the source of defeat for King Pharaoh and his followers. That God who was powerful enough to easily help a weak people by the stick in the hand of Moses and make a mighty warriors of Egypt under pharaoh suffer such great defeat is ever alive and well. That God is the Creator of all things. Your mumbo jumbo will never cut it with any sane mind.

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It is then that you will begin to explain how the elements in the earth and you are perfect with one another. I wonder why you could not go to the Moon near to us to live, except that you have to replicate the earthly condition on you whenever you even venture to a height just short distance off from the surface of the earth.
humyns are not compatible with most of the elements on Earth. In fact, slight increases of the one we are compatible with will hurt or kill us. Having said that, humans did become compatible with several elements on Earth because we did evolve on Earth. See if you can figure out why humans can't live on the moon. I'll start you off: think gravity and oxygen.
You are a joke KAG. I think you are getting off on this type of meaningless postings. I ask you a direct question, you went all over the places without giving me a single answer of how you have not evolved to be able to live on the other planets without any aids/equipments from the earth?

Oh dear, that should be a lesson to me: never assume a Mohammedean Creationist has basic intelligence. I have quoted the whole sequence so that anyone with a half decent brain that decides to read this will get a feel for how laughable you're being. How haven't humyns evolved to live on other planets? Um, we evolved on Earth - take a moment and let that sink in.

I intentionally leave everything as your computer brought it on this thread. I guess you spoke without thinking. The mistake is from you personally, or your computer or both. It goes to show that humans and or the machines that they design, in this case could no be mistake proof or faultless. Look to your writings and mine as well before yesterday. You will see that I did not make mistakes, but you did.

First there is nothing called Muhammedean. I am sure it is the Europeans and the Orientalists who coined this word. We in I.s.lam are not that. And as such we reject your label. This is your mistake. Just think for a moment, if you make this blatant mistake by calling me a name that does not belong to me, how can you be certain that there are no mistakes in the Evolution concept?

You need to reflect on the fact that if it is true that all things evolved and not created, there is not reason for things to be existing in the place where they are best suited to thrive. Please look at how you spelled humans. I am not mocking you, but am pointing out to you how easily humans can make mistakes and think that they have been dilligent. Am sure your computer has a lot to do with it. Then imagine what equipments focused on a more distant places, who knows how accurate the information gathered were to arrive at possible and conclusive evidence? We only know what we know and thats all. But the truth lies somewhere and it may not be where you think it is. In this case, am sure that you are completely wrong. The Creator knows His role. The Owne of creations knows what He created.



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Logic: learn it; use it. That I'm better than thought I'd be last week is neither implies flu nor "under the weather". Geez! Humyn grandarents? Extinct.[/quote]You still continue to say humyns. Is that the new evolutionnist way of writing humans? You are truly not deep. Maybe you need to emigrate to USA, or Africa. USA being the newest world, according to the Europeans and Africa being the "Cradle of mankind." Afterall you are a believer that you came from some of "monkey." And by the way logic could be used to deceive. Truth is One and it is always direct.


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I wouldn't know.[/quote]I hope that you are a friendly person. Show it. You can not just have that in your head without practicing it.

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Science doesn't set out to falsify the existence of gods. What one can assert, however, is that with new findings, one can propose that gods aren't necessary for the state of things and beings. That is not to say, though, that one cannot be both a believer in a god and accept scientific findings.[/quote]You sound like people who believed their 'gods' or 'godheads' created. Yet when there is real test to show that either have power on anything, the impossibilities surface then. I wonder if gods and godhead fail to evident their capability, how do you think that it is possible that this vast and beautiful thing called universe came by its own process, without the Programmer of the process. That programmer is God, and stop being so childlike in using small g to talk about Him.



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Yup. Some polemics don't deserve anything other than whats amounts to a patronising pat on the head.[/quote]But then you are looked upon as a disingenuous, lacking the ability to be honest when there is no other way about it.

@4Him: There were prophets before the father of the Jews, Judah. There were prophets before Ibrahim, who is the great grandfather of Joseph, and his brothers, including the one known as Judah. It is this Judah's descendants the should be called Jews. Of course, just like everything else in the Bible the truth is ever stretched so thinly to cover what it does cover, and or the fallacy which is bent to cajole people to accept the "new Truth!"

So not all prophets are from Ibrahim's family tree. And not all prophets from Ibrhim's family tree are from secondary branche of Israelites, or the primary branch of Isaac descendants. It is clear that Ismail was a prophet before his younger brother Isaa. And after the door of the Isaac family tree prophethood was shut, All.ah raise from Ismail branche of ibrahim family tree Mu.hammad. All the doors of prophethood were shut with him.

And which of the languages the Bible manuscipts is based on, was the language that Jesus was given the Gospel (all that he taught) to deliver to his people? Until you find original Bible in that language, a Bible that must be written down at the time of revelation or ministries of those prophets, you will be unable to present, even for yourself a viable Bible.

I am confident that the God who sent Jesus as His "words" did not sed him in English, or latin, italian, or Greek and other languages to Jewish people, whose mother tongue is either Hebrew or Aramaic, both being Sematic languages. God could not have let Jesus go to his people delivering the commandment of God in a strange tongue. I was wondering that the Christians did not realise that the creation process of Jesus by his Lord, was so easy for that Lord.

Afterall, if Jesus was not a creation, he would have just came down from heaven as a fully grown man. But God created Jesus in a miraculous way that can be accepted by the hearts of men, yet the Christians exagerated it so much that they made him into a deity.

If not all the prophets were jews then which one of the many you now claim was an ishmaelite?

I.sm.ail himself and Mu.ha.mm.ad were not Jews. And neither were Joseph, Jacob, Isaac, father Ibrahim and other prophets before him, all the way to Adam, the first man. And so that you know, what you call the Jews are more tha the jews, because the Jew as a tribe of nation, is just 1 out of many tribes. The tribes numbered and still number exactly 12 today. When you attend the Passover feast or sedah or of the people you are referring to, they will have Levites, Rubenites, Benjaminites, Josephites, etc, in their congregation. Otherwise, they can not have a sedah. You need to know that because they have bamboozed the whole world with lies, whil they arrogantly practice the truth that they will admit amongst themselves.

Then there are truth they will refuse to accept. They refused Jesus, who even came for them and from them. They refused M.u.h.am.m.ad also. Well we can see why when he took leadership of spreading the Commandments of god and His Oneness to the whole world and he was not from them. Well God is not a tribal god and all the artificial setup to justify piety of one over the other except God consciousness was totally destroyed.

@KAG;

Except, I didn't just say "Wrong", I also gave short reasons afterwards. I'd say I'm more correct than both you and the other clown.

Regardless of your short or long reasons afterwards, you make absolutely no sense, except that you keep providing silly and unproven theories.


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First, as I've told you several times, your understanding of the Big Bang theory is terrible. However, if one were to argue that it was a "particle" that expanded into time and space, one could point to the quantum fluctuations which cause the rise of particles out of nothing. I've told you that before[/quote]Particles coming out of nothing? You see how clownish your thinking is? Even magicians can not produce something out of nothing. There whole gimmick is slight of hands. Thats the same situation with the proposal of the Evolutionists; much talk without substance.

Second, the heart is not harder than steel, nor deader than stone (yes, I understand how metaphors work, but you did it wrong in your attempt to equivocate). The heart came as a result of evolution.

What i said about the heart is not about everybody's hearts. I was talking about your heart and the hearts of the Evolutionists, because it is devoid of truth. A heart that will not accept the truth is hard and dead.

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Um, why or how would humans evolve to breathe CO2. Do you understand how evolution works? In any case, there are organisms that did evolve to breathe in CO2. See if you can guess what they are.[/quote]KAG, I wonder if you thinking process has any depth. I simply ask you a question, you avoided it and begin talking about some organism. I spoke about human, you and me. You are talking about some organism. You are so clogged up with your evolution mumbo jumbo that you will avoid serious dialogue about it. Your escape route is always to go fall back on an unproven theory. You sound as if a tree will ever become a human being.

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A singularity expanded. The singularity had a great deal of energy, which has, in turn, made conversions, etc. Jupiter, like other planets, came to be through one of the processes of planetary formation. It's existence is not necessarily supernatural nor does it require the help of any beings.[/quote]All unproven theories. And noticed that you said that there are more than one processes of planetary formation. And it is your singularity that expanded with great deal of energy that brought all the above to being. Then I want you to tell me how that singularity came about and what was its potential properties; mass as in weight, etc? And I have not heard of any thing that expanded, without some thermal changes. What created the initial thermal change, and what amount of it to make the singularity expand to the point that conversions took place? Are the conversions all at the same time or you don't know? KAG, the evolutionsists have been making unsubstantiated blanketed statements for a long time, and have been left unchallenged. You now have to provide a proof. You are now to to tell us the layman about your thesis. And if you can not, then know that God is the Creator of all things. And mankind does not know all things at anytime. Afterall, we do not know the future in full.


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Humans are not compatible with most of the elements on Earth. In fact, slight increases of the one we are compatible with will hurt or kill us. Having said that, humans did become compatible with several elements on Earth because we did evolve on Earth. See if you can figure out why humans can't live on the moon. I'll start you off: think gravity and oxygen.[/quote]You are a joke KAG. I think you are getting off on this type of meaningless postings. I ask you a direct question, you went all over the places without giving me a single answer of how you have not evolved to be able to live on the other planets without any aids/equipments from the earth?

Humans didn't evolve from gorillas or chimpanzees. I don't have the flu, nor am I under the weather. Dude, have you been drinking? For your sake, I hope that's your excuse.

Is.la.m prohibits me from drinks. I simply thought that you were under the weather when you responded to an inquiry, that you are now better than the week before. Anyway, I see that you are devoid of human emotion. So whatever humans evolved from, pardon me is now modern day human grand parents. So how are they? I am trying to get you to think that your theory of evolution is just a lousy theory from a demented mind, who could not logically or physically prove it, if his life depends on it. Your reputation depends on it, KAG and you are failing terribly.

By the way, where is that guy, Afern, or with a similar name? I hope he is well.


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No, I said science is commited to truth and theology to dogma. I didn't say it disagrees with it, although on many occasions it does.[/quote]Has science proves already that there is no Primary Mover, the Creator who is God? Now that is the truth that they need to commit to or prove it wrong.

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That's swell.[/quote]Need I say more, since all you could say is "that's swell?"

When a man lust after his wife, or the wife lust after her husband, it makes the love almost as if it was the first time. Is lust not a desire to have whatever one lust about. I lust as human being after my wife and things that make life for me as m.u.s.lim.

Then I am lusting to see my Creator and His mercy in the day of Judgement. I am lusting to be in the place of honor, the highest place in Paradise. The station of my beloved Prophet, the leader of all prophets and messengers. I lust big time and am not ashamed.

@4Him:

Open your eyes, the arabs are colonising North Africa today. When Lebanon became a nation it was majority christian, today the christian population has all but disappeared, what's left is for Lebanon to add "isla'mic republic" to its name.

If one group a place and bring truth to them, it is far better in the future than a group that invades and brought along fallacies and other layers of ills. How far did the French go before they were finally shamed out of Algeria. Who were the people killed enmasse again in Algeria? The citizens, both arabs and non arabs. All of them Africans. The last I check, the National team of Egypt is named Pharaoh (terrible name it is, if you ask me for a m.u.sli.m people to call themselves. Am not even shocked since Babangida calls himself Evil-genius!), and they won the last two of the African cup of nations soccer tornaments.

Your claim will not wash. And I am very familiar with evil done by individuals on others. And I know that the M.us.lims are not immune as the culprits both on mus.li.ms and non m.u.s.lims. However, in the 21st century, which we are still less than 10 years into it, it is the Christians and their surrogate mother and father Jews who are capable of true invasion and colonization of M.us.li.m and non mu.s.lim land and peoples. A person's body could be oppressed by force, you can never overcome what it in the heart and the essence of the soul. Blame the Christian nations before you have even the begin with the nations of i.s.lam, which there is truly none  right now. You can blame individuals and that will be okay with me as long as you reflect on yourself, too.

If mus'lims had the millitary might of russia or the US, Israel would have never even existed, jews would be extinct, blacks would be pushed into the sea (remember Usman Dan Fodio) and the entire world would be one large caliphate.

I know of Uthman Dan Fodio (Usman Dan Fodio), and you should look at what type of people surrounded M.u.ha.mmad to actually what is required of  m.us.li.ms. Neither Moses who had a larger followers, during the height of his mission, at the time of exodus from Egypt and Jesus who had less people than him at the height of his own mission, had anyone who could not be considered a part of their ethnicity, tribes and nations of people.

But in the case of Mu.ha.mmad, we see clearly that whites (Shuaib AlRoma), Asians (Salman AlFarsi), Blacks (Bilah Rabah) and Arabs (Abu Bakr), all of them followed him. All of them, men and women, poor and rich, free and enslaved who were later freed followed him. The first thing that occurred when this noble soul and his followers got to Madina was that alliance and treaty were formed and forment the people, without leaving anyone out of this relationship. We see that Madina became the envy of her surrounding as it progressed to a city that had no continuous wars within her various ethnic groups. The Jews did not like the presence of Mu.ha.mmad and his followers, and this was the single reason that they tried to undermine him just because he was not a Jewish prophet. You should ask yourself why did the Jews emigrated in largest quanity in the arabia to Madina?

I do not want to lecture you of the benefits which you know already, but refusing to accept. But quit the deceit, please.

Yep and those mus'lims helped them by taking over their country? brilliant strategy.

And what strategy is playing out in Iraq and or in Afghanistan, today? We now have a steady stream of Christians in these places. First as "liberators" and then it is laced with Missionaries and the missionary works. What strategy, David? Please you need to have the strength to watch the videos on google about the atrocities of Christian missionariies all over the conquered m.u.s.lim lands: google; Christian missionary Atrocities. I am sure you will find other related atrocious actions from the Jewish state, whose military and policy is geared to killing the Arab palestians in a slow and excruciating death. You will see how they have been using sledge hammer and stone to break the bones of their captives, without a crack on the skin surface. They, the jews have perfected this type of destuctions and humiliations to an art.

In 1990, a british jewish war person told me how they humiliated the mu.sl.ims they captured in wars with Israel; they feed him pork ad of course shave his beard. Lewis Elford was living in my home at that time. Just imagine how I felt when my guest was telling me this. But then, he lived with me for months before he went back to England. I am happy to be a m.u.s.li.m which was the reason he survived his statement. Just imagine if it was a mu.s.lim that was telling the story to his jewish guest. I know the Jews, far more than you will ever know them, so don't give response off the cuff.

@4Him:

Here is another glaring difference between christianity and is'lam. While you struggle (in vain) against sin, the blood of Jesus cleanses us from ALL sin. The struggle is not a blessing, it is a sorrow because as flesh you can never win.

I think that jesus won against the devil, when he was tempted 3 times in a row. I am sure that I will take my chances with struggling and relying on A.l.l.ah for His support of my effort, by rewarding me and making me victorious, in the end.

I am different from you who has flesh and do not know that there is need for struggle. You rely on Jesus who himself struggled against flesh. I guess all of us who struggle are in the same league or true followers of Jesus.

And as I struggle (in vain), God has helped me not to be involved in illicit sex. And i love women to pieces. Can you image how wonderfully my Lord has protected me so that my struggle will make me victorious in the Long Run. I do not need the blood of jesus. And by All.ah when I am totally victorious, I guess the blood is shed in vain, it it was ever shed. But I will let you gravel with that because of my respect for Isa bin Mariam. I know you are not talking about my Isa bin Mariam.

And my struggle is a victory for me, because I pass through HIV/AiDS decade and all this time, am free of all the potential sources of disasters. You said struggle is always in vain? I don't know how you came about this conclusion that begs all forms of acceptance. Struggle is good. You should try it.

@~Lady~;

HAHAHAHA NO You DID NOT!!!

IF You DID, I WOULDN'T HAVE ASKED You TO ASK UR WIFE. You DIDN'T EVEN MENTION THE PLAY YOUR FANTASY PART, THAT IS JUST BRAND NEW. HAHAHAHA

I think that you did not even hear a word I said in that conversation. Every Human struggles. Every muslims knows that it is not a sin to have an unintentional look. And that it is a noble quality to struggle against evil of the heart. That is the greatest of all levels and definitions of Jihad. If you remember, I said that the one who fights the urge and never sucumb to it is better than the one who tries not to face the possibility that these temptations can take place.

I illustrated that a former thief or a person who has the potentials to steal, but fights it never will be judged for the fact that the thought of thiefery crosses his mind, regardless the amount of times or how often. The outcome is this, he did not steal.

God always knows what's in our heads, and that's all that matters. He's the judge of all. I agree with your wife. That was MY point, not YOURS. You were going to continue entertaining the thought as long as your wife doesn't know, THAT was your point.

I never said that a person continues to entertain the though as long as the spouse never knows about it. That will be a torture. What will be the benefit of struggling against doing something you consciously constantly nurse in your head? Is this not hypocracy? I remember even telling you that Joseph prayed that he be sent to prison so that he could be away from the beautiful wife of his master, who lust after him. She was not reported to have any children, hence, with all her wealth, she may be been attractive to young Joseph. If the woman had never tried to implement her lust for Joseph, but only simply struggle against, she could never been guilty before man and God does not punish because of thought only.


My point was further reinforced, because according to the Bible, Jesus was tempted 3 times by the Devil. And Jesus struggled against it. For me, the person who struggles against evils and overcome, everytime is just like Jesus. Finally, my wife did not agree with you, in the end. At first she was emotional about it, which was expected anyhow.

The fact that I asked my wife about this matter should tell you that I was confidence that I did not encourage that a person shouldcontinue the constant thought of doing a particular evil. Thats not the way it works in I.s.l'am. Sex is something that are discussed in its proper place.

@4Him: I have so many things to tell you, but you can not handle so much information right now. And please this statement does not need your "Its fraud" shout. Okay. But seee my response to your statement in quote.

You mean the once proud copts that your arab 7th century invaders have virtually almost destroyed and rendered a minority?
Its amazing these same 21st century colonisers are waxing lyrical about Israel and the "palestinians".

21st Century started when, now? Between 2000 and 2001, I did not see any mu.sli.m society or individuals capable of colonising any none m.us.lim societies.

David, tell us if the military industrials complex is controlled by the m.us.lims. Tell us if in the movie Iron man, m.us.lims have developed a weaponry that just needed to be used once to keep the people are not intimidated by its existence? And who are the latest colonisers, David?

Finally, Copt in Egypt were being oppressed by the Vatican, who did they called for help? Umar bin Kattab and the Muslims to help them against the true oppressors.

@CGift:

Honestly, it will help you strengthen your Christian faith when you start seeing some absurdities in the book and you immediately know the second day of reading it that its not worth the time because 1) Their Qurihan authenticates the bible and asks the mooslims to consult us to verify their qurihan and if they are not sure of some things that MO, their prophet was telling them 2) it explicitly declares Jesus as the Messiah (though they deny that it is not for the whole world) 3) It also reveals that their book is not god-sent as it belittles intelligence and mocks scholarship.

When the Qu.r'a.n says that the people of the Book should be asked, meaning that the Jews and the Christians should be asked, because if they were to be honest, they will confirm what is in the Qu.r'an. You see, you have not used your inner eye to ponder on anything, considering that you live in Ikorodu, a very good Mu.sl.im town.

Al.l.ah says to Moses when the Children of Israel (before they became known as Jews; Christians check it out. The Mu.sl.lims are now taking you to school on the Bible), were complaining that they were tired of eating Mahnar and Salwa; Manna from heaven (Al Niama; blessing which you do nothing to get). He told Moses to tell them to go to any land that they choose and eat their food, if they are not happy with what God gave them. God was unhappy with their request and so he gave them a sarcastic response.


This is exactly what the Almighty did as He instructed that you should be asked, because you know the truth, but you hide it because of your pride. And pride leads to great sets of sins. It is pride and arrogance that cause Shaitan to refuse to obey the command of the Creator.

Cgist, you blindly did not see in chapter known as Fatiha where A.l.lah says of the people who are astray? It is the Christians who say that God is broken to multi godhead. This is a thing of those who are astray and will be lost.

Allah says in Chapter 5, the table Spread that in the day of judgement, who ever brings anything other than Is.l.am, it will be reject and will never be acceptable. Fortunately, Jesus did not bring Christianity to human beings. He did not bring Judaism, either. And we see that he disagreed with the Jews in their process of worship and deallings. Moses never brought Judaism either. We realise that the words Jews and or Judaism were never used during his live time.


Now how will you plead your case before your Lord, with something no prophet or messenger brought?