₦airaland Forum

@Davidylan: And when a person writes about his personal conviction about the religion of I.s.l.am, you get up and say "Quote from the Q.u.r'an!" David why don't you stop being so mischievious? And interpretation always miss the mark. I know it and when I deal with Christians in business, i always advice them to through away interpretation. You can not know the mind of the speaker. But you can read exactly what he wrote. If you are still confused, you can ask him, directly.

I guess the Bible does not afford you that kinda of luxury as we have by hadith/Sunnah. By the way can you go to court and say to the the Judge that you interprete a contract or written document to mean other than what is within the four corners of the page(s)?

@~Lady~: I have to laugh about the converting business. For a person to learn about anything, that person must be willing to listen and analyse. I wonder if you are standing with your intetion to accept the truth, even though you said that you are eager to learn, how can you learn. The Q.u.r'an is full of all valid examples of how it is impossible that Jesus could ever be God. But it is not what you are intending to hear. I just made it clear to you that the prophethood of M.uha.mmad was actually a beginning of his end, the moment he declared his messengership. We see that he became poor and then poorer. Now tell me what did he gain that could be worldly? And the mu.sl.im never at one time said that he will even judge anybody in heaven!

But the Bible said that Jesus is god and even his 12 disciples will judge the 12 tribes. Now tell me, it seems as if there are many not to be judged people in the day of Judgement. What is the essence of not judging some and then judging most? Yet, even then, all the 12 apostles died and at the same time the wages of sin is death ( Baby, please don't give the metaphoric understanding, because I dislike interpretations considering that I am going to "original sin," to draw up my inference. lol).I hope after its all said and done, we will remain friendly.

@ Davidylan: Am getting too old while waiting for that phone call, last week end. Oh, its still not week end yet. Now thats a sign of falsehood. Bawo ni, man.

But I do want you as well as Olabowale and others to know that I am not in the converting business. It is not my place. I don't have to fight God's battle, he does it very well. I won't convert Olabowale, the Holy Spirit will.

The holy spirit, as per the Q.ur'a.n is Angel Gabreil. I do not see how an Angel of God will be leading a believer in One God that he the Angel serves to worship a 3 god in 1 god! Its not possible.

@~Lady~

No I don't. I was not there and neither were you and neither was Muhaaamad. So no we do not know whether his body rigor mortised. Tell me, if I come to you and I say that my grandmother is dead, do I have to say that her body became rigor mortised in order for you to believe me. When Abraham died, did the Qu'ran say that his body was rigor mortised in order for you to know that he was dead? Or did they say the same for Ishmael, or better yet Muhaamad?
We do know that a blood can coagulate and a person be alive, so come up with something better.

First the Q.ur'an did not continue to come after the death of Prophet M.u.hammad (AS). Anything you read in it was sometime before death came to him. And since you said that prophet M.u.hammad was not there when crucifixion happened, but you forgot that neither did any of the Prophets from the children of Israel was there when the creations of things were happening. Right? But you believed them because they were prophets, right? You also believed the obliteration or abrogation of the Laws of the Old testament, by the laws of the New Testaments. One law replaces an older belief. And they are completely different from each other. If you believe in the bible because of the prophets and accept new things of NT over the old things of OT, then just imagine what happens to the Q.ur'an, a completely new things and making clear of the things that are correct, worth keeping and incorrect, must be discarded from the Torah (OT), Sabur (Psalm) and Injil (NT)! If you can believe people who were not there when God created the Angels, accepting their words that Angels are created beings, please be assured that a prophet who God said that He ended the office of prophethood with was more important that all the prophets combined, in speech and in all aspects of his life. What God revealed to Mu.h.ammad is far more superior than what some Bible inspired writers said that jesus said about some divinity. The Qur'a.n says that no man who is given the office of prophethood, given commandments and wisdom about worship of God, will turn around and tells anyone to worship him instead! The Q.u;r'an makes it very clear and Jesus could never ever would have said it.

Um go over the wiped over thing for me again, I don't see the relationsip it has with protection. I didn't know to protect, you had to wipe over.

There is a zillion and more things I can go over with you. Your heart will have to be able to take it. Right now am not sure. Cover, wipe over, protect means to prevent from. God Almighty prevents the Satan to et to jesus. So he created him, his mother also without a Satanic enemy; a Jinn. Satan for example can not stop our prayer from being rising to heavens. It is up to God to accept it. This is why you see the prayers of disbelivers in distress being acceptable. Afterall, how else can a disbeliever becomes a believer, except that God accepts his repentance?

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Do not accuse me of what I do not do.
I remember saying that there are Jews that I cannot stand, and never have I praised the Jews.[/quote]You may not praise the Jews with your lips, but your Bible and all the christian leadership praise them. When you said that the children of Ismail have the hands of others on them and or their hands on others, we must therefore examine the progenies of Isaac, under the same microscope. I did not see any difference. But of course the children of ismail were not in question as to the Biblical God's command about ismail's wilding. And we did not see Ismail raised his hand to strike anyone, and no record that anyone ever struck him. If we look at this prophesy from the Bible, we will see that either the Bible writers lied or it is the fallacy of thr Biblical god to actually fulfill His promise. The answer is clear that the writers are at fault here. This is a reoccurring theme throughout the Bible.


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What did the Prophets Prophecy? Certainly they were prophets, so they had to prophecy. Don't tell me what the Bible says that shows Muhaamad, and don't show me the prophecies of the the great book. I want to know what prophecies in the the great book Moses prophecied and Jesus prophecied and Noah prophecied and so on and so forth.[/quote]Do you accept them as prophets and you are asking me about their prophesies? The central theme of all phophetic offices is that There is no god to be worshipped except God Almighty. To never associate anything with this glorious God. To know that He created all things, seen and unseen. To know that there is a day of Judgement; paradise as a goodly reward and hellfire a means of punishment. Let me just satisfy you with some of ibrahiim prophesies: All true prophets will come from his loin. That he prophesised that he was slaughtering his son. Do you want me to go through more of them? They are mostly Makkan oriented, as they deal with Hajj, etc. I think you should be satisfied with these, yet its just to whet the appetite for a person who yawn for truth.

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How is it not surprising that Muhaaamad was sent to all of mankind, but it is surprising that Jesus was set to all of mankind?
I thought they were all just prophets, aren't they on the same level?[/quote]Yes they were all prophets. But they are all in different levels. One erraded the coming of the other? Thats part of the prophethood of Jesus. Muha.mm.ad came to seal off the office of prophethood. Definitely Noah was higher than David. Or Moses is higher than John the Baptist. Jesus was higher than Zachariah. Even your Bible stated that John claimed that he was not even able tp carry the sandals of Jesus. Remember?

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We know the true relationship because he never forgot. Seriously did you really just ask that question? Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing? Maybe I don't understand this english language anymore. Can someone veify that he asked this question? please.[/quote]Oh , Efeosa, you are funny. You make me laugh. I was making you realise what the Bible said is different from the reality of the relationship. The Bible said Ismail was sent out, abandoned to rot, it seemed. Devoid of his father's love. But we see that you are the same person quoting Ismail's lineage. You will agree that one flow is going against the other flow. If there is a directional flow, after all of this, we will see that one direction is weak. What is weak in your argument is that because an older man decided to live in the same house with his Old and long standing wife, it does not directly means that the younger wife and the first son are abandoned. If I marry a 20something woman, i will get her, her own house instead of leaving the old 50something woman who may be unsure of herself if I am not with her. You see the reality of human dynamics? lol!


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I am a woman and I know how these things work. If your husband is sleeping with another woman, even though it is his wife, you are bound to be jealous.
The Bible doesn't say that she was jealous. That was just me coming to a conclusion on my own o, no go talk sey Bible talk am, because it didn't.
I don't care if Muhaaamad allowed the name Sarah to be used. If I was not a muuuslim or a christian or a Jew, I would use the name Sarah because I like it and because it means princess.
Sarah was his wife. You're speaking as if you don't have a wife. You seriously think that because Abraham was an elect, Sarah couldn't be a wife to him. Sarah wouldn't tell him what she liked and didn't like. I thought Muhaaamad was an elect of God and his wives had a say in his life. Or did he just order them around. I though Islaaam brought freedom to women, lol.[/quote]If you know all of this above, how then was it made to believe that Sarah truly has a strong say on the outcome of how Hajah and ismail ended up in Makka? All all time god was the Controller of the situations of each prophet. It is clear to us that Ibrahim was tested by the events in his life, including how his younger wife (A big test for a very old man) and his first son, older than his immediate sibling by 13 years (A bigger test for a man who had a child at very old age, for the very first time) ended up in Makka alone! And nothing happens except that God Almighty knows it and ordains it.

What I simply point out to you is that Sarah has no final say and she was not the causaer of that event.


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Simple the same way Muhaaamad claims a lot of things. He put it in the Qu'ran.[/quote]How do I win with you, if your stand is " Whatever Olabowale says, I will have a very opposing view about it?" But in the q.ur'a.n we see that he did not take any credit for himself. Is that also a gimmick, for a man who became hungry, homeless, and very poor during prothethood? And none of those calamities ever befell him before he declared his messengership. And through the hatred, the makkans never ceased to call him the trusted one! I am wondering if you have not dug your heels very deep in the ground.


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Tell me why it is the M.u.slims who observe the remembrance and the rites of the slaughter; remember it was a symbolic thing, a proof of obedience to the commandment of God[/quote]And a proof of obedience to god should be discarded, when God said it is a remembrance? And you as a Catholic observe what now: Christmas, a date and event that can not actually be substantiated, except if one were to use the Nordic mindset of festivals in the cold? And you observe Easter, Ascension?

Because Muhaaamad said so. I thought it was that simple.
Look Muhaaamad certainly encountered Christians and Jews, they were all around him. Of course he couldn't understand their views and the words.
Why didn't he just become a Christian or Jew? It was foreign to him. The Arabian culture was very much a part of him. It was his character. He still wanted the wives and he still wanted to raid people. It was his culture. It's funny how he was the only one allowed to have that many wives. When the revelation came to him that muuuslims could marry more than one wife, they questioned him on why he had more, and lo and behold another revelation saying that "Any woman who wishes to dedicate her soul to the prophet, if the prophet wishes to marry her, this only for you and not for the believers."
or is it when he wanted to marry Zaid's wife that he received a revelation that said that God gave Zainab to him.
The Surahs covered his actions. He received the revelations conveniently. No wonder it was revealed over time.

There are people I have encountered that I thought would be wife materials or just to chalk it up to experience. But Is.l.a.m has strick guidelines and I am satisfied with it. Your observation is in the same vein of your observation of Trinity, whereby you called a man god. In essence, in both you did not look at all possibilities.

Since we are talking about the wives of the prophets (as), you should not forget that in Surah Azhab, God said to him that even after these marriages, there would not be any more marriages for you. It is as if God said that if all of the women were to die before him, there would not have been any more marriages for him. The wisdom of all of these marriages were to set up legislation of marriages between Mu.sl.lim. Mu.h.amm.ad called Khadijah his wife throughout his lifetime. Even in the presence of a younger and the only virgin that he married. Aisha (RA) knew it. And we see that it was a blessing from God to be counted as a member of his household. Certainly all his wives were members of his household and mothers to all believers!

We saw that good hadith came from them. They were the ones who were able to talk about things that were private about him and none said anything evil about him after he died. We saw that his marriages formented peace and alliances between tribes and the m.us.lims.  And Aisha said that if he were dishonest it was the verses concerning the marriage of Zainab that he would not have related. But we see that God Almighty said to him that if he hid anything and does not discharge his role properly as expected of him, his punishment will be severe and he will be cut off.

Well, just imagine the duty of Jesus as he went against the prevailing ways of the Jews! M.uh.amm.ad case was more difficult than that with the Arabs, who did not receive any revelation before. Zainab is a pretty name. You should bear it. Anyway, all mu.sli.m female names are pretty.

And I guess when I do talk to you, again, since your word and you are the same thing; being a manifestation of you, then I will expect you to be here in Manhattan. If you are not here when you are speaking to me, over the phone, then you have been taking me for a ride. You have been fooling with my mind. Even Jesoul who is in boston can't be talking to me in Boston and be here in Manhattan right then and there by her speech. Or Cayon, who is in New York City can't make a statement that she is in my section of the city while she is talking to me. Efeosa, I wanna see you do that "Trick!" And I am certain that you will fail in your process of manifestation of being in Florida and New York at the same time.

@Reindeer: What am not is a Jesus basher. So to title as such is not what is right. However, I do speak the truth about Jesus, whether or not it agrees or disagrees with the christian view points, is not my concern.

@~Lady~: I draw you to the progenies of Ismail to provr many points; One of them is that even though Ibrahim separated his younger wife and the first son, from the main house, he never at anytime stop being a family to them. How else would you have been able to know the "children and tribes" of Ismail, if he and his mother were abandoned, forever?

Further, if this above did happened, since we see the relics of continued relations between father and son, by the building of the Ka aba in Makka, it would not be impossible that when the dream of slaughter occurred, Ibrahim looked towards the already disposed off son to bear the brunt! I am not saying thats what happened from the Q.ur'anic point of view, but using your Bible to suggest that if your Abraham cared less for a child, he would probably opt to slaughter him, if he had a choice. How would he be able to pull it off with a woman who had only a child at old age and was even bold that she forced God to agree with her to the point that Abraham was commanded to send his first son and his younger wife away? He would not have done it if God did not command him to send them away. And God would not have commanded him, except Sarah was unhappy and wished to get rid of mother and child team. (Sincerely, it behoves me to understand why a woman who encouraged her husband to perform adultery will now send the child and mother out of the house. Was this before isaac was born, or while he was still a child that shame was still foreign to him or when? Please thread carefully before you answer. I have a ton of reasons for putting all of this out for your observation).

Ishmael had twelve sons. You will not dispute that Ishmael is the father of the Arabs, therefore his 12 sons are the tribes. They have also been mentioned in several literature from of old. These literature make reference to history.

Here are the sons:
Nebaioth
Kedar
Adbeel
Mibsam
Misham
Dumah
Massa
Hadad
Tema
Jetur
Naphish
Kedemah.

I asked you to really know the Bible before you comment and demand the authenticity of it. You will be amazed.

It's funny while doing research I stumbled upon a website in favour of The Great Religion, I believe it's answeringchristianity.com or something like that. In their quest to prove that Ishmael was not a wild man, which is not regarded as a bad thing, they make a mistake and made a statement that insinuates that Ishmael isn't he father of the Arabs and that Pagan Arab existed before and Ishmael was fighting their practices. Take note to the below:

Ishmael was a wild man, and a "blessed" one by GOD Almighty (Gen. 17:19-21).  He fought the pagan Arabs who practiced brutal slavery and degradation of women.  It was part of the pagan Arabs' custom to bury daughters alive at the age of 4, because a birth of a female brought shame to the family.  Many pagan Arabs used to practice it.

http://answering-christianity.com/ishmael_great_nation.htm

I keep making warnings to be careful not to contradict yourself, not just you Olabowale but muuuslims in general, it may come back to haunt you.

Would I know more about the beginning of the Binis of Edo state, if I am not a Bini man, and never live there, than a Bini blooded person? Is this possible? Could anybody know the story/history of the arabs, before Ismail's arrival to Makka than a cultural arab? It is impossible. From history, we know that Ibrahiim and sarah travelled to Egypt and some other parts of the closely alligned territories. One would wonder why he dropped off the young wife and son in Makka, except that he knew that it is not totally isolated and desolated. It was a cross road of journeys to greater Transjordan/middle east, vis a vis Syria, etc. It is a route that the "Arab" Yemeni's used to take. They used to encamp with there caavan i this place known as Makka, way long before Ibrahiim came along. Anyone who reads the history of Makka will know that the Arabic language, a sematic language was spoken by many people (Yemeni is a group), before Ismail andhis mother settled in Makka. What made Makka a place that could sustain any population is the water well known as Zam Zam.

Was Oduduwa the father of all the Yorubas? Hardly, because Oduduwas was not the only man that was in the entourage of people that settled in the area and produced the people known as Yorubas. There are many men who have their spouses in this famous group. However, was Oduduwa the main male character or the leadership? Yes. This is the case with the Makkans. We also know that idolatry was introduced to the Makkan arabs and kept in the Kaaba by an outsider Arab traveller. You will agree with me that when the place, the kaaba was built by Ibrahim and ismail, there were no idols housed in it. It is a later thing, just like many other things (Trinity).

No God is not limited to the Children of Isaac, the Bible and the Torah do not remotely state that. Even the Torah/Old Testament testifies that God delivered not just the ISrealites but others as well and that he regarded others as his children:
"Are you not as the sons of Ethiopia to Me,O sons of Israel?" declares the LORD "Have I not brought up Israel from the land of Egypt,And the Philistines from Caphtor and the Arameans from Kir?

You see just as God punished the Ethiopians and Arabs and Egypt and other nations, he also punished the Isrealites. When he showed favour to the Isrealites he also showed favour to the other nations, especially when he was punishing the Isrealites. He gave victory to other nations and gifts to those in those nations that proclaimed him to be God. If they wanted to show that they are the favourites, why then would they include their destruction? Why wouldn't they just call everyone evil and say that they are the only blessed ones?
Like I said make sure you know the Bible before you start making claims, you will be highly surprised.

They never showed Ishmael to be a mad man. They never showed Ishmael to be evil. According to the Bible and the Torah, Ishmael was not evil and a promise was made to him that he will have a great nation and truly Arabia is a great nation.
I am still trying to understand why you're trying to prove that Ishmael is not a bad man, when even the Bible doesn't lay claim to it.
Yeah he was called a wild man. So was John the Baptist, and we hold him in high regards. He was the one that showed us to baptise with water, while Christ baptised with the Spirit.
Yet he was weird and he lived in the wild and he ate lcusts and honey. Tell me why would a man who ate locusts and honey be held in high regards.
Stop reading too much into nothing.

And I have never read any where that the jews and or the christians have not used the children of Israel as the chosen people of God, against every other people. So your trying to interprete the bible (I expect you to interprete, anyway), or indoctrinate me on what the bible did not say, especially when what I read is opposite what you are suggesting, will not wash with me.

And it is still surprising that a man who was prophesised to be a wild ass of a man, turned out to be blameless according to your reading. But you simply forgot that you have used the behaviour of the present day Arabs (don't forget that you reminded me of my dislike of their behaviour), to justify the 'wild ass of a man' label on him. You are speaking with the opposite sides of the mouth and I am not sure when you are speaking the truth, any longer. Maybe you just say whatever as long as it makes things look good. You can say a person is okay, when he was prophesised to be a wild ass (the prophesy was only on him, and not his progenies), yet you now point to his sons to tell me that the prophesy was never lost (so take a look at the sons of Isaac and see if they faired better).

How are they not believers in one God. Be careful not to allow hatred to take over you and cause you to make false claims. If you're referring to the Golden calf, that would only go to show that they didn't skew the Torah and that they even put their wrong doings in there. Why would I want to show that I am bad and an evil doer or a disobedient child when writing my history that I want people to think that I am the only favoured child?

I therefore wondered why you think that the Qu.r'a.n reminded Prophet Mu.ha.mmad not to frown? If he was was dishoest, such a simple reminder like that he would never would have let anyone know it. In your New Testament of the Bible, was there not a rebuking of the Children of Israel in a general sense of their evil doing? You do know that some evil are so bad that you can not hide it; such is the Golden calf. If your Bible did not divulge it, the Q.u.r'an does. Finally, on this board, the Christians have never let off reminding us that the Children of Israel are chosen people of God. And by the way, I do not have any hatred for jews persee. So don't read any interpretation to my words. I am not the Bible. Read it exactly as you see it and don't interprete.

And there are Jews that are muuuslims too. The Great Religion is a religion, Buddhism is a religion, just as you have converts from Judaism to The Great Religion, you have converts to Buddhism. Don't forget you also have from The Great Religion to Christianity. If we are to condemn people and judge them as bad then we're all condemned, and yes that includes me and you.

InshaAllah, I am not condemned. I maybe bad, which is a fact, but condemned, thats in Hellfire. My Lord God, Al.la.h Taala is very merciful. I long for His forgiveness, as it is written in the Q.ur'a.n.

And there are muuslims who commit adultery and rape innocent children, are these people who are still covered under any cocenants which will prevent them from suffering in hellfire?
come on man you can do better than this. this is poor scholarship. this isn't the way to handle a discussion or a debate. come on do better.

You forgot that there is forgiveness of since. But the greatest sin that must be forgiven before death is idolatry/ multiple head/ multiple persons god worship. This you can not accuse any true m.u.s.lim. If a person in is.l.am does all kinds of evils ad he truly believes in One god and steadfastly observe his prayers, these two and others will gradually get him out of evil deeds and he will seek repentance. And before he dies, his repentance, InshaAllah will be accepted.

But a person who does all kind of goods, but worships multiple god head, eg trinity, idolatry, and the disbelieving of the existence of God, such a person, if he does not change and becomes a M.u.s.lim before death will end up in Hellfire. is it clear now?

Same question to the muuuslims. Like I said, do better.

Prove it. You can't say that the prophecy is wrong, when the Christians and Jews had so much tension between them about the prophecies.

The essence of the covenant is to worship One true God. In the way He lays down His worship and not the way we want it. To do good for His pleasure and to fear His Anger, while at the same time longing for his mercy. And a M.us.lim who is not a hypocrite who enters Hellfire, God willing will be removed from it after he has been puritied of his evil deeds which led him into it. Others, Jews, Christians, Idol woshippers and the none believers in God will remain there in the hellfire, forever. This is in the Qu.r'.an.

And the prophesy that the Jews and the Christians, though have the same bible do disagree with each other, is in the Q.u.r'an. And yes it is very clear that you will never agree with each other.

I don't care what the Surah says. Far as I'm concerned you haven't proven the authenticity to me. And I have gone so far as to read the book. Man come on. Come on do better.

I read the Q'ur'an from 1975 all through January, 1998, and it was in English. And I asked myself if i understood anything from these 17 years exercise. The answer was No. I then picked up Q.ur'an in Arabic. A language I had no clue about. And god opened my heard and I was able to understand it. And I was a m.us.lim all the while. Turn that around to you who comes from a non mu.sl.im family. Your heart was never in finding the truth, you would have known that Surah fatiha (the opening chapter, speaks about the complete glorification of God, the dependence of Believers in Him, and the wrath of God on the disbelieving Jews and other disbelievers and christians being described as the people who are astray) is a speech by God in a command to seek His favor. You would have seen that the few verses of the folloing chapter speak about believers, disbelievers and hypocrites. If these few verses are not enough to open your hear, then i will continue to pray for your heart to become soft anyhow.

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Yeah um the term is messiah. Even in the Qu'ran. I know I saw it. Now the definiton of messiah is?
Don't forget that the word existed before The Great Religion arose as it is today, so tell me the meaning, don't forget it's a Hebrew word, so tell me the meaning.

And according to you, Wiped over what?[/quote]Massiah, is an Arabic spelling. I am neither a Jew nor a christian, remember? Wiped over or covered over from the influence of satan. That means satan will not even tempt him and he will not do any evil. But of course, the Bible does not have any belief like that. Afterall, he was tempted three times in a row. And according to your argument with me, on the lust after a woman thing, the lust (a form of temptation) is in itself a sin. Therefore, jesus according to the bible committed three sins of temptaions. Well thats even pale compared to the original sin transferred from father Adam. Lol, and thats according to the Bible! Afterall, all man carries that sin and the nature to sin. Now how do you get yourself from this bind that you find your argument?

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Oh look the desperate cry of a muuslim, rather than show the Islaaamic faith, destroy the faith of others and when they have doubt bring them to Islaaam, wrong tactic to be used on me, try again.

What you posted had nothing to do with my statement. So try again. We already discussed this part, but let me indulge you anyway. Christ is God in the flesh. Yes you have the head huncho, the big man himself GOD, and then you have himslef that he manifested in the flesh, because he is God and is capable of anything but lying. And then you have his spirit who guides.

I do have this question though. Do muuuslims believe that Jesus was the Word of God and the Spirit of God? Because the Qu'ran calls him that.

"Sura 4:171

O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of God aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of God, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in God and His messengers. Say not "Three (Trinity)" : desist: it will be better for you: for God is One God. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is God as a Disposer of affairs"

Funny how the Qu'ran contradicts itself. How can one man be the Word of God and the Spirit of God and not be God? How can Olabowale be the Spirit of Efeosa, or Efeosa's word? (I really do want you to answer this)

Muhaamad made a very bad mistake by not understanding the meanings and the origins of words, when he spoke of the messiah and the trinity. I will address the trinity here.

TRINITY: This Latin word means "the number three, a triad", an abstract noun formed from the adjective trinus (three each, threefold, triple), as the word unitas is the abstract noun formed from unus (one).

So you see three forms in one (unity). It's a community (hope you get the joke there, haha)[/quote]From the onset I made it very clear to you that my purpose is to be a factor in opening I.s.lam to you. i do not see my effort just now as a new thing to you. Our friendship is based on helping you see the truth of I.s.l.am. Hopefully, i will find happiness in the mutual friendship between us. i will never claim that its a one directional flow here. But you have never became a m.us.lim before nor come from i.s lamic bloodline. I have a bloodline in Christianity and i know enough about it to actually know the truth, which it has none in it. The core of truth is absolute. And absolute truth is God is one and should be worshipped as such, in the way he prescribes.

You justified that God is capable of doing anything as if in that state He does not restrict for himself somethings. Then all of a sudden, you said that god is incapable of lying, which would contradict His initially capability of doing all things. Lies are things that immorals. And the actual judge of morality is God. If it was the rules that lies were the true truth all along, you and me as people who follow the rules will have to accept it as the truth. Let me make it clear to you, if homosexual was not agreed to be sexually wrong (living a lie against the norm), then heterosexual people will be the ones who are wrong. That will be according to the fact that the homosexuals considered themselves to be morally correct.

Few years ago, in the 1980s of Hollywood, it became a rage that legal marriage and having children in wedlock was a dying thing. People in hollywood were shacking up with their partners and having children via introvenous and surrogate motherhood. Those few who had normal marriages and family life became the abnormal people. But that id not make it rigjht in the long run.

There are things that god will not do; like eating (and Jesus ate a sign that he was not God, but an ordinary human being), sleep (Jesus slept and slumbered while at it on the vessel. It was in that slumber that they woke him up because his companions, people of little faith, thought their boat was going to perish). Look i can give you a trillion examplesof the things that jesus did that disqualifies him from ever being a god. All of those things God do not do. God does not pray for example, except that He accepts prayers which He commanded people to make.

And to be the word of God does not mean that you become God, rather but His spoken command, a speech. And the speech and command of God is always true, must come to pass. And the spirit of God does not mean that one takes the spirit of God. And then becomes God. Did the bible not say that God breath His spirit into Adam? Was Adam God? The spirit of god is an instrument of God which He uses to effectuate whatever he wishes to effectuate using the spirit. it is a separate thing from God, and it is nothing but an instrument. Let me make it easier for you: A King is different from his crown, his staff, his throne. Each of those things are instrumentsthat can effectuate the will of the king on the subjects. If a messenger delivers a message with the staff in his hand to the highest chief, even though the king is not present, the chief knows that the king was actually the one talking to him! Everyone of us is a spirit of God, His word. If God did not allow my becoming a person, the sexual intercourse, if it would even happen, will just to be part of a usual mutual enjoyment between a husband and a wife. Afterall, not all sexual intercourse result in pregnancy. And if He did not allow my soul to fuse with my flesh, bone and blood, there would not have been anything about me. We see that people experience still birth.

And the Surah of the Q.u'r'an which you stated clearly retuted any ambiquity that jesus could be more than human messenger! I submit to you, again, that he was even restricted in his messengership to the house of Israel.

Am laughing at your inference that refuting that Jesus was God is a misunderstanding or a mistake. How do you justify the quality of human Jesus can be imposed on The One True Creator? What did Jesus create, separate and apart from what has been around before him? Jesus did not even know the end of time. Jesus did not know the season of the fruiting of Figs just because he was hungry from his fast! Jesus did not have any power to stop the satan from tempting him. Jesus did not even have the power to stop people from arresting him, even though as he prayed against it. Jesus did not even have the power that all his prayers be accepted. Jesus did not even have the power to stop his own execution, which from all observations, he wanted no part of it. He was not a willing participant. My darling, I am only using your Bible to point out what you are not seeing. I have to stop here before somebody is tagging with a nasty identity.

And as per your statement, you will see that you separate god from the man who was word and spirit coming from God. Man can not be God. And God can not be man. I can be your word if you speak me, as in capable of giving me directive. And i can be your spirit, if I represent you at that place where i will discharge the instructions as per your directive. There is never a time that i will be you; you are a woman and am a man. There is a gender barrier between the two of us. And thats just one difference. Just imagine what you can get out of that. I do things men do. You do things women do.  Our physiologies are different. Both internally and externally. Now imagine the incompartibility of between God and Jesus? Should I say more about Trinity; a greek word to explain Hebrew life?

How do I explain Bini life using Gambari's expression? Dig it, woman? Lol.

@Huxley:

This is breathtaking! You have a penchant for missing the central theme of my posts. This post is really about epistemology, in order words, who can we be sure that god does really speak to humans, commanding us to perform acts on his behalf.

Was god in communication with the following; Moses, Jacob, Abraham, Joshua, Mo-ham-ed, Jesus, Paul etc, etc?.

It is obvious from the way you distance yourself (and your religion) from 4) that your god could not have ordered such acts. But how can we know that god did not order such acts?

Are there any acts in the qu-r-an similar in nature to 1) 2) and 3) commanded by god, about which you are ashame and equally well prepared to distance yourself from?

In the future, make yourself very clear. You see, I do not read minds and I do not interprete people's views. What is hiden is not known to me. And so that you know, there is nothing in the Qu.r'a.n that am ashamed of. I do not distant myself from anything in the Q.ur'a.n.

Finally, the Hijackers of 911 and Osama bin laden, these are your concern. Tthey are not mine. When you can tie such a behaviour directly to what is in Q.ur'a.n and or hadith, you will see me pointing out your ignorance out to you. Between you and me, I am the one who knows Islam. I have practiced it longer than you are alive. And i do not have god. I have God.

@Cgift: Ta lo koe lowe? lol.

And there is sex, bread and wine for the women, too. Afterall, a heterosexual man will not become a homosexual in paradise. Me, I want plenty of sex, man. I want plenty of wine, a product I do not have in this lifetime.

If Paradise is not a place of good reward, then when you get to hellfire, you will find out that sex and wine are not part of the equations there.

I wonder if you know that a person who does not receive salvation will not be having sex and being served wine after Judgement day. I see what you fail to see. How do you have a balanced time after the day of judgement if you are deprived of all the goodly things of this world? InshaAllah, I will eat, drink, have sex, relax, visit friend, reminescence about this world, and give thanks to my Creator Who protects me from hellfire.

Aburo, wa si bi bayii. Cross over to the side of true success.

@Huxley: I see your reason for the Trinity and Christianity. What do you have for the M.su.lims? If you have nothing, then your mind is even more deluded than you can ever imagine delution.

@Huxley: For an atheist like you, whats your business with end time? Afterall you are about to evolve to some creature that will have no need for food, therefore the famine thing should not concern you. You are even going to develop into immortal creature, aren't you? lol.

@Backslider:

@seun

ah ah

If you read his prophesy from his website you will see that some of the prophesy are not biblical and some have not come to pass.

And the same can be said about the unfulfilled prophesies of the New Testament. Afterall all those people had dies and Jesus had not returned yet. And neither had the Comforter came to teach you all things. (If the comforter was not M.u.h.ammad, that is). There are many more statements that has not came to past and the time for it has expired.

What is ironic is that these Yoruba people when they turned away from Is.la.m, they do not see the need to change their names as well. If I were Paul before I became a M.us.lim, the name would just be a goner just like the former religion. Bakare should be ashamed of himself, because Bakare is Bakr, but in a lazy Yoruba pronounciation.

@~Lady~: I am an equal opportunity offender. See, I do not spare the Yorubas either.

@Backslider: I hope the eyes of your heart are opened, soonest. You tend to be walking in the dark.

@Olabowale

Jesus(God) cried to the Father(God)

GOD MAN
He is worshiped (Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33 ). He worshiped the Father (John 17 ).
He was called God (John 20:28; Heb. 1:8 ) He was called man (Mark 15:39; John 19:5 ).
He was called Son of God (Mark 1:1) He was called Son of Man (John 9:35-37 )
He is prayed to (Acts 7:59 ). He prayed to the Father (John 17 ).
He is sinless (1 Pet. 2:22; Heb. 4:15 ). He was tempted (Matt. 4:1 ).
He knows all things (John 21:17 ). He grew in wisdom (Luke 2:52 ).
He gives eternal life (John 10:28 ). He died (Rom. 5:8 ).
All the fullness of deity dwells in Him (Col. 2:9 ). He has a body of flesh and bones (Luke 24:39 ).

Yet as Jesus was asked about the hour, he said no one knew it except God. If he were ever God, he failed to seize an opportunity to declare his divinity here. But further you chickenly avoided the Mark 12 Verse 29 in your Bible which goes completely against your claim. You can not even explain in good conscience how Jesus was crying out to a God when he was on the cross. You are so confused and one human to another, I pray that God does not take your soul in this state of ignorance that you are in.

You make me laugh. It is even acceptable if I arrive in Ijebu Ode and declare myself as the Pakulopa of Ijebu Ode, a man who died some forty plus years ago. Afterall am his son. It could be excused. But to say that Jesus is God is the height of blasphemy. Jesus never claimed it for himself and many verses of the Bible are still ladenned with proofs that there is no way Jesus is more than just a human prophet/messenger/messiah to the children of israel, alone.

@Backslider: Wouldn't your hypothesis be incorrect, since Jesus on the crossed cried out to God (not Jesus) about being forsakened? Do you care to explain who was Jesus crying out to, here if your Bible is even to be believed? Can Jesus be crying out to himself? Will that be a normal thing?

@Backslider: You are wrong, again. I am not an Ahmadiyyan. My last prophet and Messenger was M.uh.ammad (as).

@M_nwankwo: It is evident from your writing that it is nothing but a Lodge, Ogboni or Resicusshian (I hope my spelling is correct on the last), What else could it be. You claim that you never post from the Bible, didn't you? Remember that.

Not that I care. You have your appointed time, just like I have mine. Hopefully, I will live for another 80 years, and be strong with full faculty even then. But definitely, I will die after all of that. I will spend longer period in the ground and then I will be raised up, for Judgement day. Everyone will be responsible for his/her own soul. Even jesus will be responsible for his own soul. He will not even be able to discharge the responsibility that you are attaching to him, in your effort to usurp the position of his Lord the Creator, as his own.

The reality will set in then and definitely, you will see the errors of your way.

@Reindeer: You are funny. Yes, am still a kid. And Alhamdulillah my blood pressure is stable, normal.

Another sect of idolatry!

@~Lady~; As much as I like you, I need to subtly respond to your fallacies. It seems to me that you can not see how wrong you are. I have a better Book, but I will settle for your Bible to point out your mistakes. Its eaither that you can not see the faults and falures of the Bible or you just refuse to agree with truth and stubbornly gling to falsehood.

Ok so I'm going to post this for you, so that you may know what the Bible truly says, because clearly you don't understand me.

Genesis 17: 15-22

15 God further said to Abraham: "As for your wife Sarai, do not call her Sarai; her name shall be Sarah
15 I will bless her, and I will give you a son by her. Him also will I bless; he shall give rise to nations, and rulers of peoples shall issue from him."
17 Abraham prostrated himself and laughed as he said to himself, "Can a child be born to a man who is a hundred years old? Or can Sarah give birth at ninety?"
18 Then Abraham said to God, "Let but Ishmeal live on by your favor!"
19 God replied: "Nevertheless, your wife Sarah is to bear a son, and you shall name him Isaac. I will maintain my covenant with him as an everlasting pact, to be his God and the God of his descendants after him.
20 As for Ishmael, I am heeding you: I hereby bless him. I will make him fertile and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall become the father of twelve chieftains, and I will make of him a great nation.
21 But my covenant I will maintain with Isaac, whom Sarah shall bear you by this time next year.

I hope that clarifies it for you.

Please list the 12 nations that came from Ismail. It must not be less nor more than 12, otherwise the Bible will be wrong, yet again.

And is God now limited t6o the children of Isaac, alone? And before this, was God not the God of all that lived and is He not the God that are now living outside the bloodlines of Isaac? And the covenant still covers the children of Isaac who are evil doers and never believers in One God? Are you aware that the Jews are enmasse Buhddists? They practice Kabala? Are these people who are still covered under any covennants which will prevent them from not suffereing in Hellfire? Do you know the essence of the covenant? If a man/woman ends up in Hellfire, does it mean that he/she benefits from the Covenant?


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Tell that to the prophecies.[/quote]Wrong prophesy.


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After it was done centuries before. Tell this to the Christians who were not Jewish.[/quote]You guys chose the wrong path. This is the only reason that Surah Fatiha referes to Christianity as a path that leads astray, while Judaism as a path of great wrath.

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Then tell me the meaning of the term messiah.[/quote]In I.s.lam it is Massiah; wiped over.

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First no Bible verse disclaims that Jesus is God. Muuslims in their desperate quests and lack of understanding interpret it to be that way.
The title of friend of God still stays with Abraham and same with Moses. Your point is? That what you're saying supports the Bible? Seriously man you're sounding like a fish without water.[/quote]I am not in a bowl. I like your analogy. You make me laugh. Please read your Bible very carefully, before you respond to me. Explain the verse Mark 12 Verse 29. How then on the Cross the Bible claim that Jeses cried out "My God, My God, why has thou forsakened me?" It will therefore mean that you have two gods, would it be?

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Lol. Are you so sure? The witnesses and history claim it to be that he did say that. Why was he crucified again?
It's funny how the Jewish history supports the Christian history in that Jesus did claim to be the messiah and that he was crucified. Because he claimed to be the messiah, he was crucified.
Define messiah for me.[/quote]You asked me the question above and I already answered it. Again, Massiah in I.sl.am means wiped over as in protected. And neither the Jews nor the followers of Jesus could say for sure that he dies on the cross! Remember that his blood never coagulated at anytime. And he did not go through the state of regormortise. Not at anytime in the whole ordeal. And you know it and I know it.

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Well goody you understand how God works. Stop trying to make claim that the Christians claim that Isaac's sons were perfect. We don't praise Isaac or say that Ishmael is worse than Isaac. If you read the Bible you will see that Ishmael is mentioned and never was it said that the guy was bad. I can be a woman of the wild (a wild woman) and not have that be a bad thing,
Seriously stop thinking of the wild as bad. Besides later on it goes on to talk about the children of Ishmael and the prophecy about him opposing his kinsmen came true there.[/quote]I hope no one will praise me, especially the way the Jews see Ismail, and call me wild and all of a sudden I think its a good thing. Maybe if your enemy calls you wild ass of a woman, they are praising you. ut in my book it is a bad thing and you tried to justfy this on Ismail by using the history of the Arabs. But you want me to forget it when it comes to the evil of the children of Isaac. It does not work that way, darling.

And I wonder all the position of honors that the Jews enjoyed in Andalusia, Spain should be forgotten? What a selection of memories; christian style!

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Hatred is not the way to go. No one is praising the Isrealites. Dude misunderstanding is not good. I have come across jews that I can't stand and Arabs that I can't stand either. I am not the one to judge the Jews and say that they are worse than the Arabs, besides I am not the one that called the Arabs wild in a derogatory way, you did. That is your problem not mine. I have come across Arabs that I love and appreciated their friendship.
Stop thinking that the Christians are out against the Arabs. The Arabs are the ones quick to kill.

One more time. Ishmael is not viewed as someone bad in the Bible, but we know that the covenant that God has was to be carried out through the bloodline of Isaac. Even the Bible shows that. Well if it was just ordinarily through Abraham's bloodline that the covenant was to be carried and God did not specify which son, what about Abraham's other sons? Where are their prophets too? Why didn't the completion come from them. Why Ishmael? What about Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak, and Shuah. Why not them?

Again I ask, what is the covenant? We know the sign of the covenant, now tell me what is the covenant?[/quote]I have expained the covenant so many times and this will be my last; at least on Nairaland. Ibrahiim disagreed with his idol worshipping people, so he exiled himself from them. He was seeking the true One God and multihead god or gods. Finally he arrived in Jerusalem and settled. He said to his Lord, My life, my death, all my worship and all my deeds are for your pleasure, Oh God. And I am the first (in my generation) to submit my will to you 100% as a M.us.lim.

By this God tested him. God commanded him to separate himself from his son, the apple of his eyes. So he took Ismail and his mother, young Hajah to Makka. In time God tested himsome more about his slaughter of his son. He can only slaughter the only son that he had. If he had two sons, it would never have been a great test. After he passed this second test, he made a prayer in Makka at a place called the station of ibrahiim. Thats in Kaaba/Masjid Haram.

In the prayer, he prayed that all prophets after him should come through his bloodline and to make Makka a secure place. Prophets are leaders for those people that they are sent to. God accepted his prayer with a condition that whoever among his children that worship anything else but He, will not be under that blessing. The sign of the covenant was to circumcise the males. Ibrahim circumcised himself and his only son, Ibrahiim. However after the test of the slaughter the good news of Isiaq and Yakub was delivered. You will agree with me that a person who is supposed to be a father would not be demanded to die at young age, even before the opportunity to become a father.

If this is the case, then the christian/Jewish God wil be cancelling out His own good news before it materialized. And if you are abservant, you will agree with me that the mus.li.ms talked so much about the prophets from the children of israel and even called Mary the best woman ever created, how then will it come to who is supposed to be slaughtered, the m.us.lims will be dishonest in it? It is such a thing that it is so small that you can not imagine the M.us.lims being honest in something more serious and then turn around and be dishonest in this. And the Jews never at anytime observe this rite of slaughter and neither do the christians.

And it is the will of God that many prophets came from the Children of Israel, without any of them being sent to the whole of mankind. You will see that Jesus was not sent to mankind, except his own people. And it is not surprising that Mu.ha, mmad was sent to all of mankind and my friend you do not need more than 1 prophet for it. And it is appropriate that it is the last prophet that should be given that honor. When you read everything and understand it, you will agree with me, without a doubt. And have you noticed that the reoccuring theme of all the prophets is worship one God and do not associate anything with Him? I wonder where the christians fish out their multi persons god?


I know more Jews than you could ever imagine. From Rabbi, to reformed Jews. I do not hate jews. All I discussed with you here I discussed it with Jews if the situation arises. But you reminded me of the conversation t5hat I had with you concerning the Arabs; but you did not talk about hatred then. You were quick to accept as truth. Now who truly hates in a way that begs honesty? I have lived with Jews and Arabs. You have not. I dislike Arabs for their hypocracy when it comes to Is.l.am. For the most part the leadership of the Arabs. I dislike the Jews for their failure to accept guidance. You see the difference.


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Please point out where I stated that Abraham forgot his son. Clearly God would not allow that. I believe I answered this above.[/quote]If Ibrahiim never forgot his son Ismail, then how is it that you know the true relationship between the members of the family? I submit to you that the jews wrote the Bible to justify their warped idea about being "chosen people of God!" We see that Ibrahiim continued to have relationship with his son Ismail, even throughout his own lifetime. They built the Ka aba in Makka together and Ibrahiim even suggested that Ismail divorce his first wife. These two conditions are signs that Ibrahiim continued to visit Ismail and his mother in Makka. And only the mus.l.i.ms observe the remembrance of slaughter. Need I say more?

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Hey I am not Abraham. Who knows maybe he preferred an old woman, maybe he couldn't keep up with the young woman, Hey I am not a man.
Abraham did not send Hagar away by his own wish. Sarah requested it. It doesn't make it right, but she requested it. Call it jealousy of a woman.[/quote]I am a man and I know how these things work. I disagree with you about the jealousy of a woman. If Sarah had been a jeolous woman, the noble prophet (as) would never have allowed M.us.lim woman to bear Sarah. Again the Bible continues to make false accusation. Let us continue to dialogue, and in time God will open your heart to the truth. A woman can not control the elect of God. Ibrahiim was an elect of God.

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You still have to prove how credible the Qu'ran is.

Anyway, I can very much enlighten u on the practices of the Arabs before Muhaaamad and why they are so similar.[/quote]Then tell me how Ka aba is claimed to be built by Ibrahiim and his son Ismail? Afterall, when Ibrahiim left his young family in that outpost, the Kaaba was not there as a building. Tell me why it is the M.u.slims who observe the remembrance and the rites of the slaughter; remember it was a symbolic thing, a proof of obedience to the commandment of God.

I guess if the M.us.lims are patient enough, we will see the many sects of Christianity fight one another. The protestants, offshoots of Catholics, will fight. The grail message with its occult leaning will join in in the fight. Where does it end; fight here, fight there, fights every where?

Where is this Igbo lady, Nwando?

@~Lady~:

Of course not, the Bible doesn't focus on the son that the covenant was not to come through. Besides the Bible says that he and his mother was dismissed. But since the Qu'ran has the answers show me Ishmeal and his bloodline.

If he and his mother were dismissed and his father forgot all about him, how was it possible that the Jews knew about him and his children? If somebody was forgotten, as a child (You could never guess the age of Ismail when the separation occurred), how can those people who never were born knew enough about him? Except the separation is not a matter of totally forgetting about him. We see that Ibrahiim continued to visit him and his mother. It is a natural thing for the old man to keep the childless old woman with him in the house. And to transfer the younger and more energetic mother, who could weather the time of being alone more vigorously.

And we see that Ibrahiim built the Ka aba in Makka with his son Ismail helping him. And we see that the remembrance of the rite of sacrifice is observed by the Musl.i.ms yearly. The christians and Jews do not observe it,because it is clearly not something that concerns them. I wonder why they claim it is Isaac and yet never a time did they observe it. The Jews should be ashamed of their lies. And the Christians do not fair better either.

Finally the most important of all the Children of Ibrahiim, from all the two major bloodlines, is M.u,hh.ammad. This is enough for me.

@~Lady~: You continue to say that a covenant was made with Ibrahiim, through a son of his. That is a nn no. Your greatest mistake and misunderstanding of the whole realtionship between God Almighty and he, Ibrahiim. Whatever the covenant was, it just cover his progenies. First the line of saac received the manifestation of it and in ended with Jesus. Then the line of Ismail completed the who covenent with Mu.ha.mm.ad, alone. They say once is enough. Have you ever heard that? And you as a woman does not want your husband to have another woman, because you think you are enough. Right?

Now M.uh.amm.ad is that end all to Prophethood. And am circumcised because of the covenant of Ibrahiim with his Lord. I am not circumcised because I am a Yoruba, except as a sign of I.sl.am, (Iman). And Jesus being a Messiah, it was for his people alone, the nations of the children of Israel; the Jews. Jesus had no authority beyond his people. And succession of prophets were brought about because of the continuous rebellious acts/behaviours of the children of Israel. A prophet was to guide and lead. People who are on the right path, after being guided from wrong, if they continue to remain on the right path, would not need a new guidian, a prophet. From the Bible you see that the Children of Israel remained astray, after every prophet. They turned back to doing evil. This was the reason that they had prophets after prophets and jesus being the last of them.

God then raised the children of Ibrahiim, still but now through the Ismail bloodline, and Mu.ham.m.ad was the only prophet to cancel all the tribalist and regional terminology of chosen people of God. Salvation and guidance is now universal and not through the children of Israel.

All of these above you can find in Qu.r'a.n. I don't know how to assist you if you are bugged down with thinking that the term messiah means more than just the title it was. What about the title friend of God that Ibrahiim was? What about Moses wo God spoke to amny times without an Angel between them? What happens with the verses of the Bible disclaiming that Jesus God? Can you honestly disregard those verses?

Its funny how the christians are making this leap of faith putting this simple man, Jesus in a position that he never had claimed for himself. And never did your Bible claim that Ismail's children will be the wild asses of men. Your Bible said he Ismail himself, yet you can not point to a single act of wilding that he performed.

And just because your Bible praised Isaac, we are all well aware that his son Jacob was full of deceit even supported by his own wife against another son, Esau! And Jacob did not stop there. And his sons never faired better because the sold his favorite son Joseph and deceived him afterwards. And my thinking lowly about Arabs does not mean I think better of the Children of Israel, either. They are the same and we see that they are full of deceit every which way till sunday.

It is the same Jews that Nigeria was using to extracate Umar Dikko (And that fool should be ashamed of himself) to Nigeria. It is the same Jews who after they got payment for it tipped off the M I5 and M I6 of British intelligence about it. So you see they are even worse than the Arabs. Either way, your Biblical prophesies are wrong. I guess the Bible is batting 0 for 2 on the mound here. They are not even foul balls, and just one more it will be three strikes and you know you are out!

@Huxley: Your ranting has become the ranting of wholesale religious illiterate. You tend to have a beef with everything anything that speak about a Higher power, a Force, which I call a God. The only thing that satisfies you now is the absence of Deity. I wonder if I could just phase you out, obliterate you as if you are never in existence? Maybe I should try that in the same frame of mind as you are trying to write off God?

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God ordered some of his followers to fly passenger-carrying aircrafts into skyscrapers, killing all the passengers and some occupants of the building.
[/Quote]

You seem to be a person who embellishes. Your lies are even exagerated to the point of ridiculous. Where did you find the above statement, that they said "God sent them/ordered them to use aircraft to kill people?" You should be ashamed of your blatant lies. Your lying soul and heart should be ashamed. You need help Huxley. Maybe Europe is the wrong place for you with such a fibble human quality. You have taken their worst quality. You have disbelieved the existence of God. This is the time you need to be heading back to your native land; Nigeria. You need your people to reset your soul and heart on a path.

@Seun, you should know better that there is no verse or hadith supporting the use of airplane to kill anyone, from I.s.la.mi.c Books (you now call everything I.s.la.mic great. I wish your statement is from your heart. But it is very confusing), the Q.u.r'an and Hadith/sunnah.

The actions of the so called Hijackers are never I.sl.ami.c compartable. They were reported to have drank all night long, (I wonder if a good M.u.sl.im is allowed to drink), yet womanized all the while at the drinking place and have the way with it all to be so sober that they could have passed the security checks, very early that morning. They did not remain in bed, still drunk, but already took showers to clean themselves up from this one time drinking spree. Finally, were able to commandeer the airplanes and use them as missiles!

Tell me can any first time drinkers carry all of these out, without a trace of drunkenness? Can any m.u.s.lims who are truly m.u.s.lims carry out these acts; the bar scenes where much drinking is done for the very first time, dancing on the bar stool/table and having illicit sex with women picked up from the bar(s) and then being able to kill people using aircraft in the very morning after all these night sickening behaviours? No m.u.sl.im can do that. Maybe somebody with i.sl.ami.c name, but not practicing I.s.l.am in the true sense of the religion.

@Imhotep and Ujujoan: I am doing 2 for one on you guys, since you are familiar with 3 for One.

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Elijah was taken up by a chariot. Jesus ascended by His own Power.
[/Quote]
If Jesus have any power of his own, I swear by the Lord God that sent him, and then sent Mu.ham.m.ad after him, he would extracated himself from the 'nailing on the cross,' if he was the one on it. Afterall, you will not deny that crying out allowed of 'being forsakened,' is nothing short of not in agreement with the prevailing situation. That is to say that he did not want to be there. If it was up to him, he would have been out of there.

However, we read in Surah Nisaa in the Q.ur'a.n that he Jesus, was not crucified and he was killed. Again, Jesus had no power of his own, no how! Stop this spinning of web all over the places. Unfortunately it is the spider cubweb and you know it is weak.


[Quote]
The poor man [Moh@mmed] is in a tomb in the Middle East.
[/Quote]
And can you pinpoint where your rich man is, in heaven? I am certain that you dont even know which one of the 7 heaven he is! And what is condition is, lalive or dead?


[Quote]
Jesus is the Author of Life. Melchizedek is a figure of Jesus.
[/Quote]
Jesus did not author anybody's life. Definitey that of all people who do not belief in Trinity. He did not author his own life. And considering that Melchizedek is never dead according to the Bible, when Jesus was alive on earth, there were 2 Jesuses then: the real one from Mary and Melchizedek, the figure. You are in agony to expain that one to me. Come to think of it at that time, you will have father, son, ghost and melchizedek! This is a laugh, my man.

[Quote]
Moh@mmed organised Jihads in which thousands of human beings [not trees] died. Does this not make him sinful?
[/Quote]
And acording to the definition of sin, from your Bible, the killer of a tree is also a sinner, no less. And the one who was tempted, the temptation was a sign of sinfulness, also. You are urinating in the wind that is blowing in your direction. You can be assured that cloth will be unclean afterwards.




@Ujujoan
[Quote]
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1: 1)

And the Word became flesh, in John 1:14.

Jesus was 100% man during his whole stay on Earth, but he still had that nature of God. Thats what the whole idea of 'duality' came from.
[/Quote]

Ujujoan, someday we should bottle that and try to sell it. Howmany people would buy that flimsy idea, except the gullible. You try that idea for size on yourself. Here is your writing on Nairaland. Even though your writing gives us your thought, it does not actually becomes you. I can not say that your writing, which is your words in print, is actually you standing in front of me. I read you, but you are not the computer and you are not here in front of me.


To then equate the word as in command of God to be God is ludicrise. God is more powerful that the weakling that you are making Him. My God is very powerful and no sight can behold Him. He controls all things. He created and still creating. My God is Bigger and Stronger and its not your three gods. (I am now trying to make you see the fault in 3 in 1)

@~Lady~:
[Quote]
Did I ever tell you that I don't want to die? Am I not a Christian woman?

Did i not explain to you what "of this world" means? Man stop catching amnesia.
[/Quote]

Your explanation did not justify your meaning "of this world." No one is "of this world," since we all have to die. Don't forget Judgement day.

And am too young to catch amnesia. You should know that by now. By your saying it does not mean it is so. Te same that your of this world expression does not really make Christianity special. Afterall, Jesus said that he will deny some of the Christians when they come to him, in the day of Judgement.

@Davidylan: I wish I can laught like you. Yet I have my 32 in my mouth. The condition is serious. And by the way, I called you yesterday. It rained here, hard. Am sure it would be a deluge where you are.

@Cayon: From your Bible, a mere lust for a moment without ever carrying it out is a sin, right? A passing though of doing evil, but one struggle against ever doing it is sin, too, right?

Now killing a person (unjustly), robbing a people of their possession (Bank robbers, or others), worshipping of idols and multihead god(s) like in Trinity, are also sins. I am sure that you will disagree with my statement about Trinity, yet it is setting up partnership with God and or worshipping many God.

Will this lust or thinking about something bad without ever doing it, if only it was just for a moment of thought, are these equal to killing innocent souls? Will a person not be unforgiven for having a thought that one struggled against? Will a person go to Hellfire for that? Will a person who killed an innocent soul and never seek forgiveness and dies in that condition will not be punished?

My dear Cayon, open the eye of your soul.

@Davidylan: I wonder if the grandchildren of Jacob are equal in stature as their Uncles to their grandfather! You seem too technical, but all the while missing the point. Look into your Bible. You will have to tell us how the 12 tribes/nations are headed by the combinations of sons and 2 grandsons (You said Benjamites are now divided into 2 tribes). If this is so, it is no wonder we see all these confusions in the Bible. My father can never be called my name. And my two sons can never be equated to the status of my siblings in the house of my father: Pakulopa of Ijebu land. lol. David, weee murun kurun.

[Quote]Dont be daft, you don't need to possess a false $5 note to know that someone else might possess a fake.

Do you have a copy of the protocols of the elders of Zion? Did you know its a Russian forgery?

Is this the defence you can put up? Such a shame.

Isnt it worrisome to you that much of your energy is expended posting "books" that talk exclusively of Israelis? Any book about the ishmaelites discovered yet?
[/Quote]
If you have these much forgery in Christianity, where is the truth then? Can a single Bible version stand the test of scrutiny? Can a single Bible be the original? Can it be traced to the time of Jesus? Isn't it interesting that the protestants are not ashamed about their assult of the catholic Bible, a Book that they shameless copy? Yet they assult it? Is it not clear that if you doubt your source of information, then you should doubt your own information?

And the book that talks about Ismailites, is the Q.ur'a.n. But of course you forgot that the Bible continued to follow the history of the Ismailtes. How could they have known about the lineage of Ismailites? You christians with your off the wall ideas and arguments. E fi ete sile, e ma pa lapalapa. (thats my Yoruba for you. Ask SysUser).

@Cayon: There are unforgiveable sins. One of them is having partnership with God. Don't die unless you bleed yourself off that type of Multiple god worship. There is not Trinity in True God. God is but a Single God.

@Dammy4u: Good quote man. Except that you forgot that before Abraham, God Almighty was in existence. And He was already God and Lord over all creations. He was and still is and will always be the Lord God of all. That will include animate and inanimated objects. It includes Jinn and man. The one that worships Him. The one that does not worship Him. Te one that does not even acknowledges His existence.

Your mentioning that your God is God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob sells Him sort about His Lordship. Even the Angels are very firm in their worship of Him. Now where do you place Jesus in all of this? Did you also forget that you call him lord god, also?

I will now tell you the God Lord that Allahu Ta'ala is: He is the One that Jesus said sent him. He is the One that Jesus said his Lord God. Now that God Lord is (Allah) and definitely not a God that is spliced and diced as in your Triun of Trinity.

From all the above quotations from both Great Book and Hadith,which the Great Ones regard as holy books, it is evidently clear that ALLAH instructed the Great Ones to force,fight and kill The Jews and christians to make the them believe in him(the god of The Great Religion).
The worship of creature(stars,moon e.t.c) is also another clear indication that ALLAH is not the same as the GOD OF THE BIBLE because the God of the Bible clearly instructed both the Jews and christians not to worship any created things,not even the holy angels.

Let every Great One,who desires to know the truth visit the following sites:
http://www.bible.ca/the great religion/library/the great religion-quotes-moshay.htm
http://www.bible.ca/the great religion/the great religion-kills.htm

I also recommend the above sites to all sincere seekers of truth.
GOOD DAY.

But you forgot that When those who used to be God turn bad, they are to be punished. Was God not the God that Created the Pharaoh and Egyptians who perished in the sea, under the leadership of Moses in exodus? Did God who is the God of the Jews and Christians not killed the Children of Israel 'Jews,' wen they worshipped the golden calf? Why did He killed them? Were they not Children of Israel, as they died? Did they suddenly fell out of the fold of the Children of Israel?

Your thinking is not quite correct. No one is ordered killed while they are obedience to the laws of God. The Egyptians drowned in the sea after all the several plagues, because they continued to be very bad and disobedient people. The Children of Israel were also killed when they were bad and disobedient to God's law by their idol worshipping.

Now the Golden calf and the Cross are the same idolatry symbols before God. The Children of Israel used the calf as their intercessor/intermediary/saviour before God. It is apparent that they knew that God Almighty Who got them out of Egypt remained alive, except that their current shephard, Moses was not available and because he took a longer time to come down, they feared in the maintime he had "died!"

Now compare the situation of the Christians with the Children of Israel. The christians formulated a religion on their own. Thats even after the fact. But yet they still did, because they could have refused the label, just a the (Muslims) refuse to accept the label of muhammadeanism.

What the Christians did and get stuck in the rut, is that they feared that Jesus died and then rose up. As a result of this misunderstanding, which they can not proof (It was not that they did a litmus test of death on him; afterall, his blood never coagulated or was he ever in the state of regormortise), they dietified him. They came up with all kind of ideas, to the point that 3 persons (100% god each; This is a very serious mistake and it begs all reasonability of proofs) is now 1 god! This is a big shame and a complete endictment to all who believe in it. The people who do not believe it, should at least try to talk about its falsehood, whenever they have the chance with the people who believe it.

Finally, we will find in the old testament that God commanded killings of unbelievers. Also in the New testament, a minor infractions as a first time offense in not honoring a parent is death deserving. Now if this is true can you tell me if total disobedience of God's commandment does not warrant the death of the one who disobeys, using the New Testament?

Now it is in the New Testament that the word "Infidels," is written. Not in the (Qur'an)! I wonder what status is an infidel holds among the Christians, if one uses the verse in the New Testament. I am not interested in interpretation. Am interested in the exact wording and direct meaning of the sentence as it is written. (Interpretation produces wrong meaning; a business associate was interpreting what I wrote and exactly what I said: he got it wrong, completely).

In the Qur'an, no one was to be killed for simply because of disbelief. They are to be killed because of other reason, primarily along with disbelieving. The reasons ranged from disbarring (Muslims) from worshipping in peace. It also includes not honoring their part of the mutual alliances and allegiances which were on going with the (Muslims). They were ordered to be killed because they deceitfully entered (Islam) in the first place and as they came out, it was there way to encourage others not to eevn accept (Islam) because these individuals were held as persons of honor and knowledge among their people.


The (Qur'an) says that when you fight the disbelievers, you should fight them, the moment you fight them. And if they stop or seek protections from the (muslims) they should be treated kindly and be protected and even escorted into a safe distance, if they do not want to remain with the (Muslims). In Makka, after the (muslims) opened it, God declared that after a particular year, the disbelievers should not be allowed in the vicinity of the Holy Mosque. Remember, it was not the first year that Makka was opened, and they were not ordered killed, enmasse. It is different from what the condition that usually prevailed in the Bible.

You can not compare (Islam) to either Judaism or Christianity. Yes My God is One and I call Him (Allah) in Arabic. Thats His proper name. Thats what He calls Himself. He also says that He could be called AlRahman and that all the beautiful names are His. Am a Yoruba man, and in Yoruba language I can call Him Olorun, Oluwa, Olodumare, Alaye lorun, Oluda, etc. Think man.

And i live among the English speakers, so when i talk to them, I call my (Allah) the Creator, God, Lord, etc. And when I say these names, anyone with God mental faculty knows that I am not talking about a multiple personality, but One Singly Lord God.

@imhotep:

The message of that portion of Acts is simple and straightforward.
Arabs heard the disciples speaking in their tongue, and believed Jesus.
Consult ALL the [so-called] editions of the gospel you have seen ---- this message remains the same.

Day of penticost, you said? If it happened then, with the "Presence" of the holy spirit in the mist,when they spoke in strange tongue, was it not a one time thing? How is the one time thing occurrence in 2000 years ago, be affecting you, people who claim that you are still receiving the holy spirit today, and are able to speak in tongues?

There is a party that is lying in Christendom, and its not Jesus.  And all these while, we have not heard of a present day Christians who is not an Arab speak that tongue, again? Or when the Yoruba Christian speak in tongue, they speak Igbo or other identifiable tongue?

Very confident that the Arabs appeared in a nick of time to catch the "Penticostal speech" and the "holy ghost." How much was spoken about under the influence of the holy spirit, in Arabic tongue? They summarised all that Jesus did in 3 years in a single day event? People let be serious here. If you think hard, you will know that a power point presentation in just one day, is not enough for the Arabs who were there to grasp everything that Jesus did in 3 years. Faith does not happen that way. The history of the desciples of Jesus should have educated you. Afterall, thre was a doubting "Thomas," among them! Very interesting to observe that this Arabs witness did not make a wholesale christians out of Makkans, and therefore no one can accuse the prophet that he was trying to bring them out of Chritianity and or desuade them from accepting the teaching of Cjhristianity. Onless the Christians were masquerading all over Makka as the Idol worshippers of all the 13 years in Makka and another 8 to 10 years of Madina. You guys need to hang it up.

And I have copies of the gospels written over 2000 years ago.

I will post mine here, if you want. It will be in pure Arabic! It will be a whole Q.ur'a.n. You must be able to post yours in Aramaic or Hebrew. I know that you can not produce the whole Bible. Now tell me, which 'According to" testament will you post? Will it have the post gospel parts of the New Testaments, eg Acts etc?.

Makkans and Madinans are Arabs. You are trying to meander in a serpentine trajectory in order to dodge the issue.

What issue? There are Yorubas in Ghana and elsewhere. Are they the Yorubas in Oshogbo or Omuaran? You are funny.


[Quote]
Isl@m  spread by violence under the supreme command of Moh@mmed .
Violence precipitates looting of treasures, slave trade, keeping of harems, bribery, government-by-settlement [IBB style], blackmail, extortion etc etc[/quote]I want harem. except the maximum will be four in Number. They will be known as my wives in another setting. I love to keep the flame of romance fully blown. Unfortunately, your type will have one wife and a ton of girlfriends out there. Such a dishonest guy you are!

Enu o puro ko nshe je!
   

@4 Him:  

If only you could also think. for 4000 years what laws did al'lah send to the ishmaelites? Why were they NEVER warned? Why didnt they have A SINGLE prophet to prevent them from deviation for the laws of "god"?

When you talk of "laws of god" what laws are you talking about? I hope you're not dishonestly trying to appropriate the jewish laws of Moses.

All the laws I need Alhamdulillah, are in Q.u.r'an and Hadith. Did Africa have a single Prophet to prevent them from deviation?

Dont be a dishonest soul, the jews/Israelis covers the entire 12 sons of Jacob. Now the reason Judah is magnified above all is that his line produced the Kings of Israel and Jesus Christ Himself.
Note that Jesus Christ in the new testament continously refers to them as the "children of Israel".

If you've been a honest student of jewish history you shld know that the priests (who were still existing in the time of Jesus Christ) were primarily from the tribe of Levi (so they didnt disappear).

Apostle Paul - Tribe of Benjamin
John the Baptist - Tribe of Levi

Just to mention a few and to show you that the jews are not merely the sons of Judah alone.

The rest of your fairy tale is similar, dodging the questions by playing to the gallery.

Just to help you know the true differences of Children of Israel, a people consisting of 12 Tribes/nations and Jews, in its original meaning as an ethic people, is one of the 12 Tribes/nations, I will use Yorubas to set up a clear scenario for you.

YOrubas are like the Children of israel.

Under the Yorubas, you have the Egbas, the Oyos, The Ondos, The Ijbeus, The Ekitis, etc. And Under the Children of Israel, you have the Jews, the Levites, The Rubenites, The benjemites< the Josephites, etc.

And the Egbas stand in the same quality as the Levites.
The Ijebus among the Yorubas are in the same light as the Jews among the Children of Israel.


@KAG: THe same way your evolution madness is seen as forgery to me. Yet you still do the song and dance to it, and you can not live it down.

@Davidylan:

No you fraud! M'ohammad could not have "prophesied" what was already in the bible centuries before he was born.
When Christ shall appear it will be because HE said so . . .

The prophecy of Christ's return . . . (the TRUE PROPHECY is right here): Acts 1:10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said, You men of Galilee, why stand you gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as you have seen him go into heaven.

Unforunately, you did not notice that Jesus did not specify where he will descend from heaven. My beloved, (as), specified that place in Syria. He described it to a T. I pray that I am not here when he and the antichrist are on earth.


@Imhotep:
{quote]
Listen to yourself, sultan olabowale. You are not being sincere -- you are being dogmatic.
How can somebody whose remains are trapped in a tomb in the Middle East be greater than Jesus who ascended bodily into Heaven?

[/quote]If simple ascension is what makes greatness, Jesus will not be greater that Elijah was he not taken up by a whirlwind)? Then M.uh,amma.d did that in his Isra wa Miraj night journey! Your argument is weak.

And if remaining alive is what make a person great, then Jesus could never be greater than Melchesdekes.


[quote]Just like Moh@mmed, yes, we ALL will eventually be trapped in our respective tombs. For we are sinners.

I wonder if you will call a person, according to you cursed a tree to die, because the try was not fruiting out of season, sinless? This is all from your Bible. You have no argument. You are just talking.



@ystola:

@Olabowale
men my bro, you need HELP, sorry butthat just what i think. Jesus is no more a man, he died ones as a man, but when he arose again he was not man, He was GOD, it was after he resurrected that he entered a house that ws locked even with out knocking, it was after it that he ascended into heaven, breaking the law of gravity. if the great prophet is anything Close to Jesus, he should rise again, even if not as immortal but even as man in the least.Jesus, well i can tell you that you will wait till eternity and not see the fulfilment of Jesus in that grave. okay so HAPPY WAITING okay. lol
@ JeSoul
Api Byday, and please parcel our cake over the network we go recieve am by FAITH, lol Havce a nice Behind cool yummy bubbly crunchy gooly goody munchy skyly, what ever you get tyhe message right DAY

Thanks for wishing sisi Beantown well. But you forgot that, according to the Bible, Jesus was sore all over his body. Is that the characteristics of God? I will let you think about that for a moment.

@JeSoul:

Alhaji,
of course I am turning 21 again . I am indeed waiting for the day you shall come to Boston - really! I will take you out to dinner and tell you all about the love of Christ and hope you'll come to believe and trust in Him . . .because it seems you're not getting the msg via this forum, ehn oga sir I am waiting.

Ha. lol. I will trust his Creator, his Sender, the One he prayed to. The One he formulate the Lord's prayer to. The One he cried to on the cross.

@Davidylan:

too much noise about the children of Israel, Moses, Jesus Christ e.t.c. WHAT BECAME OF THE "CHILD OF PROMISE" ISHMAEL? WHERE ARE HIS OWN PROPHETS?

Does it make any sense that a perfect job needed to be done more than once? Mu.ha.mmad was the only one needed, so he came at the perfect time, perfectly to lead the most imperfet branch and never been tested cildren of father Ibrahim, to bring all the other children (Isiaq branch) and all mankind to a perfect way of life, that is harmonious to natural order.

Are succesive prophets not for the purpose of correcting the deviation of people from the correct laws laid down by God through the former/previous prophets? If the children of Israel did not deviate from the Mosaic laws, in a general sense, would there be a need to finally bring about Jesus? Afterall, Jesus was saying that he needed to fulfill the Mosaic laws and warned against anybody who does not.

My people, think.
 

@imhotep:

Arabs were present at the feast of Pentecost, and they heard the disciples of Jesus speaking in 'their' tongue.

And the one day event of 570 years before the birth of the noblest of prophets, is transformed to 23 years of work? A  work that does not resemble the original? But refuting your claim about Jesus, starting from 40 years after the birth of Muhamma.d? You and your tall tales. And by the way, while your Original goes through revision, editions, versions, why is the M.u.slim's copy never have changed from the time of Mu.ha.mm.ad? Have you seen any original in Hebrew, or Aramaic?  I have a copy, the Qu.r'an that was written over 1000 years ago!

Acts 2:5-11 =>

5    Now there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven.
6    And when this sound was heard, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speaking in his own language.
7    And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying, Behold, are not all these that speak Galilaeans?
8    And how hear we, every man in our own language wherein we were born?
9    Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, in Judaea and Cappadocia, in Pontus and Asia,
10  in Phrygia and Pamphylia, in Egypt and the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and sojourners from Rome, both Jews and proselytes,
11  Cretans and Arabians, we hear them speaking in our tongues the mighty works of God.

Notice they did not say Makkans and Madinans. Arab is large, duh. Check your geography books again.  Imagine if they say an afrcan is present at an event. Will it be necessarily be a Malian? And the fact that he his Malian does not mean that he is Shoyinke. If he were Shoyinke, it will not mean that the Shoyinke in Senegal will know what happened at this event, in Algeria.

These Arabs were ancestors of Moh@mmed. They heard the 12 disciples and believed in Jesus. Moh@mmed came to  manipulate them for his own religio-political motives --- 540 years after Pentecost!

And the benefit that he reaped was what: as President of the Arab Penisular? As the wealthiest people among them? As the King of the Arabs? Liar, liar pants on fire!


@cgift (m):  

IMHOTEP,

that was a good one.   . It never really occurred to me you know? Lets see how Olabowale counters that. Preempting him, he could say that the Arabs in that passage are not true arabs or that the writers of the bible smuggled that in to deride the arabs?

Lets watch.

Aburo. We mu mi! Oloun, Alawura rim sinnn. SOun nikon rim fori bale fun! (Did I get the Ijebu language?). All that you said, if assumed to be true, will still not wash away the fact that it took  610 years after Jesus, before the Isl.am of M.uhamm.ad. The Arabs did not accuse him what you are saying here. The Arabs never at one time said that he copied the Jews and or the Chritians. They never even mentioned that he copied the Bible. They never even said that he copied any oral tradition that was with them, before he started his mission.

And when the Christians/Jews tried to accuse him, A.llah revealed that the accusers and all should notice that th Qu.r'an is in a different tongue, Arabic. It indicates that information gotten in other people's language, no one can be very eloquent when they say it in their own language. You are just giving weak excuses for complete failure.
 

@4 Him (m):

Good one Imhotep, i never imagined it that way.

Yes, good one for failure! Imagine it.


@Davidyln:
[uote]
Rather, that question puts to question your noise making about Ishmael being the child or promise, why would al'lah give him the promise and ignore him outright for 4000 years in favour of the younger son?

[/quote]Second guessing God, but then you set up intercessor and partners with Him. Is it not true that they say those who laugh last laugh best? Is it not true that you safe the best for last? Have you ever heard the phrase last dance? Is a house perfect until the perfecly placed last block? Thats the trump card. You don't use it or reveal it unless its the last thing.

M.uh.ammad, by All.ah is the last of them and he is the leader of them! He led them all in a prayer. And no one will be allowed Intercession before him. Now deal with it.

Abraham was not a prophet . . . u people don't seem to have any criteria at all for naming prophets . . . seems the only rule is just about ANY biblical character that you could manipulate to learn some credence to the falsehood of i'slam.

Was the Bible written before Ibraim? Or Ibrahim is an exclusive property of th Jews and or the Christians and the Muslims and Arabs do not have anything to do with him? What are the criteria of prophethood if you know it? And how many prophets were there? And what is your reason that Ibrahim was not a prophet? The person who God called His friend? The person who is the first to believe in his time?

[Quote]
We know for a start that Moses, Elisha, Elijah, Samuel, Jeremiah, Isaiah, John the Baptist, Paul, Peter, James, John, Micah . . . were all jewish.
Here is the problem though, you keep dishonestly reverting to your "name any prophet who was a jew" drivel. Can you name ANY prophet who was of the tribe of Ishmael? surely al'lah must have sent just one.

You amaze me too, David. Jews? What happened to the Levites? The Benjamites? The Josephites? The Reubenites, etc? I doubt if you even know anything about the Children of Israel. The tribe of jews are from Judah, one of the 12 sons of Jacob. Was it not that after Solomon's reign, the Children of Israel teritory not divided into two Israel and Judea? Was Jesus not called Son of David as it was used to say that he came out of the house of David? Which David? Was it not King David? What direct relationship did they have? Were they father and son? Was there not a good number of generations between them? Was David the one who got Mary pregnant now? lol.

And M.uha.mma.d, was enough as the prophet that should come from the Ismailites! Ha!

[Quote]:
Is this man alright? Moses NEVER practiced Jewish customs? Who wrote the books of Deuteronomy, Leveticus?[/quote]Ask yourself or the Jews? Remember that your Biblical writers were "inspired" men? Are you familiar with talmud and mishna of the Jews? Are you familiar with their Kabala? Learn about them first, before we revisit the Jewish Issues, again.

[Quote]
Again back to the default lies that have NO PROOF.[/quote]Tell us, do they set up partnership as you have set up Jesus in Christianity? Or do they ask Jesus to intercede, too? Are you okay, David?

[Quote]:
Where is the proof of all this "we sent we sent". Why were NO prophets sent to the tribe of Ishmael?[/quote]David you are now sounding like a broken record. You never read the Qu.r'.an, yet you complain this much?
 

[~Lady~
Wait o, how come my questions about what Christ said in the Qu'ran and about Mary being the Sister of Aaron have not been answered.

Why the dodging?


Lol@ how I asked one question and it spurned into a big picture.

[/quote]Rea the Q.ur'a.n to know what Jesus said. Read Surah 5 (th table spread). Read Mariam (Mary). Re Saffa ( Those set in Arrays; verse 6 or so). These are just a few and am sure you can lead yorself from there onward. There is no dodging.

And are not all mankind, sons and daughters, children of Adam and his wife ve? Are we not therefore brothers and sisters? Are not all the Children of Israel brothers and sisters? Did Israel (Jacob) not before Moses and Aaron? And was Mary the mother of Jesus your god  not before the present day Jews (children of Israel), who still cling to their bloodlines, the only reason they say they are of the same family, a nation? Sisi, a Jewish man just called me and what I am saying to you now, he does not disagree with any part, concening the"Jews"/Israelites. Are the generations of Aaron and Mary not closer to each other than the generations of Judah, Ruben, Joseph, Benjamin, Levi, etc and the present day Jews?

If the present day Jews are brothers and sisters, and they say that they are children of Israel, then the children of Israel are brothers and sisters to one another, regardless of the generational gaps. Is that a strange thing that Mary was honored when he was called a sister of a very notable child of Israel? Was Aaron not good enough for you? Was he not instep with Moses, the liberator of the Children of Israel, by God's permission, with a common stick and nothing more? Just to amuse you; Are the Binis not brothers and ssters to the larger Yorubas? Don't you have the same system of chieftancy as the Yorubas? You they make me laugh, sisi 9ja.

[quote]Brethren these are the questions we should be asking, instead of resorting to bashing them. Ask them about the truth and not conspiracy theories or about what we heard and read. If they hold the truth they will be able to defend it without beating around the bush. Clearly they can't.

And they will be answered. What action will you take whe you relise that the truth is being prsented to you? Are you going to still deny it? You hv responsibility to your on soul: Pardise is real andso is Hellfire.

I pray that we all accept guidance befor we die and die on true guidance. Amin.

@Davidylan: What are you talking about Wiilies?

Isnt that an irony? With the exception of corrupt little fiefdorms like Dubai virtually EVERY OTHER ARAB/MU'SLIM nation is wallowing in the throes of poverty and an endless cycle of violence. Lebanon once was the pride of the arab world when it was majority christian, today it is the cesspool of hezbollah.

I wonder if every corrupt, backwater society is I.s.lamic? I wonder what happens to the African, Latin America and other poor countries of the world which are Christians? Are they having the Isla.mic fever or symptoms? David, come off it.

Israel is a tiny strip of 7.2m citizens, it is more powerful and has produced more nobel laureates since 1948 than ALL arab states put together.

And your point? You forgot Nigeria and a host of countries when you are mking this weak argument? (David; Are you Okay?).

Yeah, the biggest favour is is'lam. No wonder we now have to do without our shampoos on aircraft.

Shave your head sometimes. I do. And people are still waiting for the wreckage of what hit the Pentagon, in Washington, D. C.


@~Lady~ (f)

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The tone is clear and it only proves that the Isrealites are the ones the covenant was with not the Arabs. So your interpretation of it, baffles me. Ok tell me the covenant that God had with the Arabs, since the "other" covenant has been with the Isrealites and now the Isrealites are to be allowed into the fold.
If they were spiritually offtrack, what were the Arabs, on track? I thought Muhaamad was dissatisfied with the way his people were and that's why he secluded himself.[/quote]Are you reading the same material am reading? Okay lets see a good example here. If I told my corporate manager to tell a former employee to remember how much he used to enjoy working my organization. And the reason that I want him to know is that it is a public knowledge that his current job is not paying enough. And we at the same time opening new offices in his neighborhood.

What is happening is that he is not working for us, yet but because of his experience with us, we know that he will be better with us, away from his dead end job. The

The case of the Children of Israel is the same. They do not have any special and separate and exclusive "convenant," separate from what God has with Ibrahim. Iwant you to know that the first physical sign of the Covenant is circumcision. I am just using your Bible to kill your argument. And Ismail was the son who was circumcised, log before Isiaq.

And from the Qu/r'an, we see that Ibrahim ask God to make all prophets that will come after him be from his loin. These prophets and his children to be people who are people of paradise, successful, prayerful. God accept his prayer and said that whoever from his bloodlines who worship anything apart from Him, that person will not be counted amount the successful.

We see that no prophet came after Ibrahim, that was not from his family. And many came from from Isiaq, and ended up with Jesus. Then the only one that come after Jesus, was the only one that came from Ibrahim's line of Ismail Children i Mu.ha.mmad.

Muha.mmad said that the prayer that Ibrahim made, A.l.lah sealed that prayer with him. He also said that he was like the building block in a building that is built so beautifully, but lacks that essential final block!

M.u.h.ammad has been known as the son of the two slaughtered. y darling we will talk about this, sometimes in th future.

You still haven't answered my question. Why are the Is'lamic Prophets Isrealites?

Prophets are from God. And God's ordained religion is I.s.lam. Ethnicity was not at play, so the prophets are Is.la.mic prophets not Israelites prophets. No one will go to Paradise or hellfire because of tribe. But people will go to paradise or hellfire because of religion.

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Or maybe if they traveled to the land where Nigeria is now, they would be rich in oil too. The Great Religious Nigerians are in the North, the Christian Nigeirans are in the south, south east. The oil is in the South, South-east. Not a favour of The Great Religion. So try again.[/quote]By A.l.lah, they did not. And Ijebu Ode, Ibadan, Abekuta, and many others, icludin Lagos, ikorodu and Even Aghor, are all in the south, south. They are all M.u.sli.m towns and cities. I only give you a snippet of even what the future may holds. You are Bini woman. And surprise Isl'am is in Bini, etc. Isl.am is in the east now. I can see you becoming M.u.s.lim woman, easily. You can't fight it, if God has counted you for you.

Finally, today, oil is now being discoverd in the West and many other places. Gold is in Kwara an so is iron ore. What about coal and others. I only use oil because it is something tht many could relate to. But what is interesting is that you can not even point to one thing that is natural resources/riches that is in the land that Israelites controlled for 4000 years, if I mockingly quote David. (David and I are friends, so people should not read any meaning to it, more that what is obvious. To use the christian cliche: No interpretation).


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Where did I say that Moses was the one working the process?
Or that he arrived on a Chariot. The Jews were and are expecting someone who will be a king on this earth. Christ told them no. That the Kingdom is of heaven. They expected liberation from the Romans on this earth, not in heaven. That is my point. They were looking for the here and the now and not at eternity.
Moses spoke of the coming of the messiah, clearly Moses couldn't have been the messiah, Moses exalted the messiah. Why would Moses exault someone who is his equal?
Why does the Qu'ran call Christ the Messiah and ot acknowledge him as the Messiah, does it know what Messiah mean?[/quote]Don't for get that you said that the Children of Israel rejected Jesus as their Messiah, because they thought or they were expecting a Messiah on a chariot. I only use Moses to say that with all the miracles that he performed, he never came to them as a warrior. But Jesus came just in the same way that all the prophets before him came to their nations. Come to think of it Moses was rejected before he was accepted. Jesus was accepted by few, except that the majority rejected him. And he came in the same meek way and needing support and followers like every prophet before him.

You are stomping me with this messiah thing too much. Now why would M.uha.mmad called jesus massiah to the Children if he was more than just that? Why would he acknowledge his massiahship, if his intention was to deny it in the first place? Definitely, you and me can not know God more than His ordained prophets and messengers. If Jesus did not exhibit the signs of messengership, he would not have gotten a single follower and Is.l.am would never have acknowledged his messengership. In the same breath M.uha.nnad exhibited prophrtic signs. It is this reason that Christians and Jews who knew the signs converted and became his followers while he was alive. Your argument is not very strong here. You can't clam that there is no more floor above, just because you stop and got off the elevator before it reached the last floor. Jesus was not the seal/last of the prophets and messengers of god to carry the orders of god to mankind. Muh.ammad was.

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And so what if they were circumcised, does it mean that the covenant was with Ishmeal? ALL WERE TO BE CIRCUMCISED. My brother is circumcised, did the covenant begin with him?
Were Arabs circumcised before Islaaam came to be in the time of Muhaaamad? Was Muhaaamad circumcised?[/quote]Apart from the question about your brother and your being hard nosed about ismail and isiaq, two sibling who are only from the one who had the primary covenant/relationship with God, the answer to each is yes. And neither Ismail or Isiaq is involved in any covenent with God, except what was Ibrahim, under which they were covered and benefitted.

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No one says Ishmael isn't the Child of Abraham.[/quote]So why is it difficult to know that the first child is the one ever qualified to be called the only child, up to until his fisrt younger sibling is born.

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Where did we say that he is wild?
He can be wild and still be loved by his father.[/quote]You need to read the Bible. And it was your Biblical Angel who said that Ismail will be wild. Not his descendants, but him. And we see that the Biblical Angel missed tge mark, again.

I thought Ishmeal grew into a man. Now he's a poor child.

I guess no one born of a woman started out as a full grown man, but always as a child. Funny that you did not connect that i was aluding to the fact that the rejection as a wild person was made about him, when he was just a very small child. How best should I express it.

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How can Cain kill his own brother Abel. Isn't he the son of Adam?
My dear just because my mother is a saint, doesn't mean that I am.[/quote]I hear you. Cain did not kill Abel when they wer both children. A little child can not be labelled as bad, unless he exhibits the traces. Otherwise the label is completely unjustifiable. So tell me what this child who is label wild from infancy, tell me one wild thing he did? Afterall, it seems that the Bible followed his life, since there is a record of his bloodlines. What did he do that can qualify him as a wild person? If the label does not fit thereof, you must acquit.

Just because Ishmeal was Abraham's son, doesn't mean that he could have done no wrong.

Tell me a single wrong that he did. Even Jacob, one can point to a wrong that he did. Use your Bble and I will use your Bible.

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What are you ranting on about? There's no recording of me being bad, does that mean that I am not? Was Abraham always good. When he was a kid did he not do evil?

I hope you know that Ishmael means God listens in Hebrew. What's so bad about that name?

Who said Ishmael is bad?[/quote]Can you list any of them? lol.


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Who said Ishmael's alive?[/quote]Am simply telling you that the statement about him being a wild person, never came true while he was alive. For sure, now that he is dead, it will never come to pass that he behaved as a wild person, even for a momet. You know what i mean.

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Ok now I'm worried about you. You're ranting now o.
[quote][/quote]Don't worry about me, since you did not show me you cared anyhow. Lol. But am okay, regardless of the allergy from the pollens. I doubt if you understand the significance of unfulfilled prophesies. One in a holy book is one too many.