₦airaland Forum

@A_K_O: Thanks, man. Just because the poster who is a christian started out with Biblical quote, the only thing that he knows, anyhow, will not mean that it is a christian only thread.

But would a person not die, even if he thinks that he a good spiritual heart (eg the spiritually aware christians), if what think is holy, is actually unholy? Let me make it clear to you. here in the USA, a country that I know more than my blood country, Nigeria, the decision maker block based on one man and one vote, are white people. I see them flip on a dime when they want to have their ways; What is horrific, they make it seemly good. Maybe knowingly or unknowingly. But they get their ways anyway.

This is the case with Christianity: To think that there three distinct entities in One God, provides a foundamentally flawed base, whereby everything build upon it is completely wrong, even if it looks correct. It is correct on a wrong premise/assumptions. Such a conclusion can never be truly correct.

@May Kelly: If you believe in One God (Who you call father/Jehovah/Yahweh), then the son can not be God then. If the Father never called the son God, then your believing in Trinity, flies in the face of One God! Then i your Bible, did we not see a character named Melchezdek, having the same quality of God, yet Melchezdek was here on earth long time before Jesus?

Please know that I am a Mus.li.m. I put these out to you so that you can make a better decision, in the long run.

@Olaadegbu: Thanks, man. I enjoyed my weekend. Always very restful. Weekends, always give me the chance to reflect. How fast am approaching my grave. Considering that I have always seen myself as a young man, still. The reality of many weekends and the ever increasing grayness of my hair present a reality check. I guess this is why we are having this dialogue.

OLAADEGBU « #70 on: Today at 01:08:52 AM »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: olabowale on May 31, 2008, 01:35 AM
@Olaadegbu:
So in Christianiology, tell us what happened when Adam became a person? Could you tell us if you know what he was because he became human? If he was moulded from soil/water (as in clay), what position was he? When the Soul/Spirit was blew into him, what did he do? Did he eat? When he sneezed sometimes during his lifetime, what did he do? And how long was he alive before his mate, our mother Hawa (Eve) was created from a bent part removed from him? Why was Hawa created? I could ask you a thousand questions about Adam. And i am sure from your Bible, you will be unable to answer most of them. Even the place where he was created you will not know. You will not even know how Satan became his enemy before he became the enemy of both husband and wife by seducing them to go near the tree, against the commandment of God. You will not even know that Adam and Hawa (Eve) were sent down to the earth after this, since you believe that there is a garden of Eden somewhere in Iraq. Please where is the tree and where is the garden in war riddn Iraq?

@olabowale, I hope you enjoyed your weekend as I did. I have a few reflections on Adam for your perusal. Enjoy.

And you did not respond to my many questions about Adam. Thats typical or should I say it is unusual? I give you the benefit of the doubt on this one. please respond to the questions, or just say that you don't know. I need answers!

Romans 5:12-21

Quote
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

We can see here that the antithesis of Adam was Jesus Christ the Last Adam who came to undo what Adam had done on mankind. The consequences of Christ's obedience extend as far as Adam's disobedience. Gentiles are descendants of Adam and partake of his sin and it's consequences, so they are free to partake of the redemption of Christ. This again puts the Gentiles on an equal basis with Jews in Adam, Abraham and Jesus Christ. Sin is of universal effect. From Adam all men derive their beings (Acts 17:26).

The whole race of mankind was in the loins of Adam when he sinned. He was its spiritual, moral and physical fountainhead, and its sole representative. He did not act as a single person but as a whole race. When he fell he sinned for all. When God contracted with him, it was a contract for the whole race. His progeny became a part to the covenant and blessings if he obeyed, and of the curses if he sinned. Death did not come by personal sin as it did in the case of Adam but it did pass upon all men because of Adam's sin. (Gen.2:17)

Using Romans and acts, two Books of the bible that postdated Jesus ascension, to develop a hypotheis and derive an inference, seems to be very unreliable to me. Reason is that Jesus was on earth with an intensed ministrial work, whereby he preached his "Gospel" all about the places, did not at one single occasion hinted on what the Roman and act of the apostles writer(s) wrote. In consideration of the Genesis 2 verse 17 as addition test which you had argued by, you must now have to thoroughly reflect that is it not the Bible that we can find that the sins of the father is not to condemn the son? Further is it not true that a child can not be saved by the righteousness of the father, without the child being righteous? Will God be Just if He condemns the child that is righteous because he is a seed of an unrighteous father? Will God be Just if He rewards an unrighteous child with paradise because he is a seed of a righteous father? When you condemn all mankind because of Adam's single infractions, even though your bible clearly blames his wife Eve for this sin, one is forced to ask you, would Adam be condemned or if he has been forgiven already, since he had supplicated to his Lord, whereby he asked for forgiveness? If he has been forgiven, then transferred forgiveness must also apply since you said that transferred sinfulness applied. Since forgiveness came after the sin, then anyone who is condemned among the children of Adam is condemned not because of Adam's sin. But the sin wrought by that progeny.

Let me outline 12 contrasts between the first Adam and the Last Adam (Jesus Christ)

1. Adam was head of the old creation (Gen.1:26); Christ is head of new creation (2 Cor.5:17-18; Eph.2:10)
2. Adam sinned (Gen 2:17;3:6) Christ did not (1 Peter 2:22)
3. Adam by one sin made many sinners (Rom.5:15) Christ by the act of obedience made many righteous (Rom.5:19; 2 Cor.5:21; Heb.10:10-14; 1Pet.2:24)
4. Adam was made a living soul: Christ, a quickening Spirit (1 Cor.15:45)
5. Adam was of the earth: Christ was the Lord from heaven (1 Cor.15:47)
6. Adam brought death (Rom.5:12,17; 1 Cor.15:21); Christ brings life (Rom.5:17-18; John 10:10; 1 Cor.15:21-22)
7. Adam passed a sinful nature to his offspring(Rom.5:12,19; Eph.2:3; Psalm 51:5); Christ imparts a sinless nature(Rom.5:19; 2 Cor.5:17-18; 2Pet.1:4)
8. Adam brought condemnation(Rom.5:16-18); Christ justifies (Rom.5:18; 3:24; 4:25)
9. Adam lost the grace or favour of God (Rom.5:15; Gen.2:17; 3:6-24); Christ restores grace to men Rom.5:15-17; 3:24; John 1:17)
10.Adam offended God (Rom.5:15,17-18; Gen.3:6,17-24); Christ pleased God (Rom.5:18; Matthew 3:17; 17:5; 2 Pet.1:17)
11.Death reigned through Adam (Rom.5:12,14,17); Life reigns through Christ (Rom.5:17-18,21; John 3:16; 10:10)
12.Adam caused sin to abound (Rom.5:12,14,17); Christ causes grace to abound (Rom.5:20).

From your first verse above, we see that both Adam and Jesus were termed as part of creations: Adam an old one, while Jesus the new one. Both are heads of the creations. We in isl.am have been saying to you christians that Jesus was a created being. Thank God that you agreed, finally.

And from verse 2, above; you said Jesus never sinned. But i ask you, what about the three times he was tempted, the cursing of the fig tree and the crying out on the cross as if an unbeliever? None of these is sinful? In the third list, how can you list jesus to be obedient, when we see that he was finding every which way not to be killed, the very thing that you christian that he came to do? From 5, you called Jesus Lord from above. Please could you tell me if Father ever called Jesus Lord or God? If your answer is no, then you have not been accurate in your charactization of Jesus. Have you ever heard of 2 captains can never command the same ship, at the same time? We can never have more than one Lord for a single race of mankind. It is either Father God is God or Jesus is god. it is not possible that both are God, since Jesus alway called father God and Father never called Jesus God.

And for Six, would anyone be spared of death? And in seven, will anyone be without any sin, considering all the definitions of sin by Christendom? Even a passing though is sin. This is why i said that the temptation of Jesus by the devil must be sins. In eight, if Adam was condemned, are you saying that he will be person of hellfire and never to be in Paradise? In nine, again, did Adam ever receive forgiveness whereby he was restored to the position of grace. And in ten, the offense of Adam was not overlooked as he was forgiven? If Jesus pleased God, why did he cry one on the cross? I could as well critique 11 and 12, but it seems as if you are saying the same thing in mant different ways. I just don't see the point, because i have provided enough for you to think about, anyway.

10 facts about sin

1. Sin came into the world by one man,
2. It was not in the world at creation,
3. Sin came from outside the world,
4. Sin caused death to enter the human race,
5. Sin is universal in effects (Rom.5:12),
6. Sin entered here 2,500 years before Moses,
7. Sin is not imputed without a law,
8. Sin did not come by Moses' law,
9. Penalty came before Moses' law and,
10.Both sin and death came by Adam's transgression of Genesis 2:17

Sin was in creation before Adam was created. The Jinn creation already sinned and were destoyed, saved a few. Shaitan as Iblis was saved from that being. If the world was created for mankind as a place of test, and, paradise and hell were already created as reward for the deeds, then how do you expect mankind to be judged, except death has to occur?

Do you truly know how long Adam was created before Moses came to being? Do you even know how long Noah was dead before Moses came to being? Your assumptions are completely baseless. They are not valid.

In all you did not provide any single answer to any of my many questions about our forebearer, Prophet Adam (as).

@~Lady~: I thought what beats under my breast bone is a heart. I did not see this thread as Christian only thread. When you discuss heart, I think everyone, alive should have a say, because everyone has a heart. But if you now say that when body parts, eg, tongue, eyes, etc are discussed, and they will be exclusively for christians, I think you would have turned this to the Ibadan people cynical concept that they have against Ijebu people.

The Ibadans will say are Ijebus humans or Ijebus? Of course they want you choose one, whereas you actually can be one without the other. (It like love and marriage). lol.

@Olaadegbu:

Matthew 3:16-17;17:5


Quote
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

I know that you have addressed this to babs787, so I will let him answer it. I am very confident that he will do a good job, InshaAllah.

But it is very interesting that from the verses quoted, I just can not help noticing that the only one who saw the heavens open (Considering the distance and the capacity of human sight) is Jesus. Therefore, it is not surprising that the only one who saw the "spirit of Christian God" descending like a dove, and lighting upon him, was Jesus.

From the above, I wonder how the people present did not see these. Afterall, it is John, a Prophet himself who baptized Jesus. If we are to be consistent, we will have to say that it is jesus alone who heard the voice about " my beloved son, in whom am well pleased."

How then can we believe this, since even the peopel who were present did not see and did not hear any of these? You know this event throws sand at the usual argument that there were eyewitnesses to all that took place in the life of Biblical Jesus.

I remember somebody saying that since nobody saw the Angel that came to M.uhammad, then no one should believe it. No that it matters to me, but do you see where your Baptizm event with Jesus actually fall flat, since the sentence stated very clearly that only Jesus saw and heard "Things" from heavens?

As there been any in history, who is wealthy: Financially, interlectually, etc, who has truly been a religious person? If the answer is yes, then your hypothesis is just that; hypothesis! There is no truth in what you put forward then. And if you do not know of any one who you could consider wealthy by any barometer you can use to classify wealth, then let me know. I will give you names when you specify which asset that you will like to use; financial or interlectual, or what exacctly.

@Cayon: New York(er), listen to him. He just throw down something heavy. Thats knowledge. Not only knowledge, he has great belief.

@Babs787: May God Almighty count all of these for you. Add them in the scale of Judgement for you, when every good deed is greatly valuable. Amin.

@Laila: Salaama. How is your Iman? I hope it has increased, some?

@Pastor AIO: For a heart not to be intensed in wanting to deceive and incorrigible, it has to be immensed in belief. That is exactly what i have stated in my prior entry.

It means that the more belief enters the heart, the greater is the God consciousness and easier is for the heart to stay guided.

@Pastor AIO:

K.oran says that God commanded the angels to bow. Not God commanded the Angels and the Jinn. Iblis should have been exempt from the command then.

Did I not tell you that God used this means to exposed Iblis's hypocracy, to the Angels? You are still pretending not to understand?

[Quote]
God can make any command that pleases him, but can God contradict himself. Either he wants to be worshipped alone or He wants man included in his worship.[/quote]Where is the contradiction. Worship of God is the act that one is in obedience to the command of god. Obedience to God is really the bigger umbella. Iblis failed by not being obedient. hence his worship amounts to Zero because it would not be full heartedly. Please step out of the smoke of Christianity to actually see things as they are. Obedience is the mother of worship.



[Quote]
In other words there are conventions of expressions and jargon that are particular to The Great Religion that an outsider would not understand. Such as reciting one letter merits one to say he has quoted the qoran. This means that the Great Book should not be taken as a literal text but should only be interpreted within the great religious conventions. Ultimately the qoran is interpreted by the Ijma. Ijma is a form of great religious democracy, is it not. It means the general consensus. But isn't consensus subject to change like every other thing that humans do. That doesn't sit prettily in myheart to think that the proper way to interpret the great religion depends on what the majority of people think. Sounds more like politics than spirituality.[/quote]Remember that a verse, could be as small as 3 letters. Example of this is the first verse of Surah baqarah. Or just a simgle word. Example is the first verse of Surah Rahman.

Ijma that you are talking about is an agreement to have an application to the moment in question, where things are not as clear. Example is smoking. We see that smoking is damaging to the health of the person, etc. Tet there is no mention of cigarette in the Q.ur'a.n and or Ahadith. But mu.sli.ms do not make decisions without order.

All has to have its root to the Is.la.c sources. For example Ijma has its attachment and acceptance in Is.la.m based on the ahadith where the prophet (as) said that my nation, when they come together to agree on anything that they need to agree upon, they will not err on the side of error. In other words, a decision like that will always be correct as long as the majority of those who have knowledge agree on it.

Islam is political, etc along with the spirituality aspect of the religion. M.usli.ms are guided by Is.lam, or mus.lims are supposed to be guide from cradle to grave by I.sl.am. his religion is the only one that qualifies to be called "Way." And christianity does not based on your knowing that every aspect of mankind should come under his religion. Thats what Is.l.am is. It should be my guide 100%, 24/7.

God says in the Q.ur'an thus: And I did not create Jinn and man, except that they serve Me,,

The nature of God, no man can encompass it. No one who had ever walked on the surface of this earth. No even His Angels, who are spiritual beings.

The prophet said of the heart: There is a piece of Muscle under the cage of the breast. If it is sound (spiritually healthy), the whole body is sound (as in true belief). However when it is deseased (as in disbelief or wrong belief), the whole body is sick (as in giving in to evil and disbelief).

He also said that when a person accumulates sins, the heart gets dark as a result of the sins being dark spots on the heart. When one makes repentance and it is accepted by God, the darkness of the heart begins to disappear.

The hear is very important in the spiritual consciousness of man.

@Cayon: If Al.lah wills, you will learn. I pray that whatever you learn will be a guidance for you. I pray that when guidance comes, your heart and soul will accept it. i pray that you will not reject guidance. Amin.

@Pastor AIO: You need an I.slami.c education. By A.l.lah, I will try and the other brothers and sisters will also try.

1) Iblis. "And behold, We said to the angels: "Bow down to Adam!" They bowed. Not so, however, Iblis, who refused."
The Great Book then later says, of Iblis, "He was one of the jinn, and he broke the commandment of his lord".

If you read Surah Baqarah about when the Lord God informed the Angels that an "viceroy," was going to be created, for the earth, you would have gotten the understanding that the Angels were concerned about what a possible bloodshed this Viceroy would pour on the earth. Read that area of the Book, when God said to them the Angels did not know what he knew. You will ask why were the Angels so concerned in the first place? The reasons are many, but an obvious one was that an earlier being had created havoc on earth. That earlier being was the Jinn race. Iblis, before he became Shaitan was from that being!

Iblis was saved from the destructions that was visited on Jinns becaue of their evil deads, as indicated above. Read the Q.ur'a.n! Iblis was then in heavens in the company of the Angels. Being in the company of the angels does not make a Jinn become an Angel. When the commandment to prostrate came, it was a test to reveal the evil heart of the Jinn Iblis to the Angels, because the Angels did not know it up to the time that the commandment came. Read the Q.ur'an again, and know that God called Iblis a disbeliever right away. A news to the Angels.

Is Iblis an angel or a Jinn.

In Surah Kahf, verse 50, called gave the nature of the being Iblis, as a Jinn. Is this not obvious by the clear description?

2) Iblis was punished for not bowing down to Adam. Yet his reason for not bowing to Adam is because God had told him to bow for no one but God. He was following his initial instruction. He was punished for an excess of zeal for God.

Since God is the Lawgiver and no one else, He made a command that pleases Him. The Angel nation whaich is more superior being in cleation (made from Light) obeyed with full obedience, where as Iblis (made from smokeless fire) refused, based on pride and envy towards Adam (Made from earth; dirt, soil admixture with water).

Let me show you that God knew Iblis heart all along, which He exposed by not just the creation of Adam, but in addition and finally by the command that He gave to bowdown to Adam. For example, Islam.ically, God strenthen the Mu.sli.ms by weaning them from alcohol, gradually. He started with not coming to prayer if one is influenced by any degree of drunkingness. That gives those who drink the window of when not to drink, eg, when it is close to prayer time. Finally, in time it was commanded not to drink, altogether. When God gives instruct, it has a reason. If Adam was not created Iblis would have been considered a believer by the Angels, who do not know the future. When Adam was created, the true envious nature of Iblis came out and when the command for prostration was issued, he refused. Soon, afterward he was naed Shaitan (meaning a one who has been removed from all aspect of God's Mercy and compassion).

3) O thou, folded in garments! Stand to prayer by night, but not all night - half, or a little less, or a little more: and in slow, measured, rhythmic tones, say forth the Great Book. For soon We shall send down to thee a weighty message.
This is in the Great Book. Should this be a part of the Great Book for it plainly suggests that the weighty message was yet to come.

Has not the very first revelation of 5 verses revealed, before the verses in Surah Muzzamil that you quote? The initial 5 verses of Surah Alaq, when it ws the only revealed verses, they were "Q.ur'an." So your argument is very weak, because when a mu.slim even recites a letter, eg. Alif, from the Q.ur.an, he can tell you that he has recited the Q.u.r'an. And he will be telling the truth. But a knowledgeable person will know that he did not recite a full verse.

4)What is man made of? Dust and sometimes the great book states. Or from a clot of blood as it other times says. Oh . . and who's blood?
ps. did you know that if Jamaican want to yab someone they call them a Bludclat?

Are you from Adam? Is not Adam from dust? Are you not the nature of Adam then?

Evidently, you are grown man, I think. You must have had relationship with your wife if you are a father of at least a child. I hope it is not sand that comes out of you in conjugal relationship with your wife? I also hope that it is not dust that is in Mrs. Ovary, as ovum which your "sperm; unless am mistaking, please crrect me," combine with in the fertilization to produce your baby.

We also know that it has been proven that a bloodclotting stage between when the sperm fertilized the egg and birth of the offspring. The jamaicans are correct about bloodclot, except that they use it in more of the monthly discharges that comes out of the woman, whose egg was not fertilized in that cycle!

And by the way, no woman discharges dust, which was what God made Adam from. But wait, the Eve who was made from Adam was not made from Dust, because the dust of Adam had become flesh when the Ruuh (spirit/soul) was breathed into him!

Didn't I see a christian putting of an argument about Adam is so named because the soil/earth in hebrew is known as Adama? Eyon mi, O ni lati soo otoo o! At least you are willing to learn. That I commend you on.

@Pastor AIO: Note: I do not know everything, and often, I do not see everything.

But wait, you seems to be christian, based on your argument about "Comforter" being a spirit. But I am already challenging you to provide me many questions about this Comforter, since there was a qualifier "Another," before the pronoun.

So you see God used you to expose that truly there is discrepancy in the "Bible." If you remember, I quizzed you to tell me about any in the Q.ur'a.n. Am still waiting. Please don't let me wait too long, because grayness is now running amock on my hairs.

@Cayon: You live in the city. Whichever Borough, it does not matter. You should be able to find a Mosque where you can find out if Mu.sl.im are permissable to drink or not. You will find that it is not permissable to drink any alcoholic drink, strong or weak.

And I wonder how the christians drink so much like Bumble bees, unless you find some permissability in the Bible for it. Further, to begin selling me about the concortions that the Israelites produced as nonalcoholic is ridiculous. Go to Eastern Parkway, Borough Park, where you will find Jews. Go to their sedahs. You come back and tell me if they do not get drunk. The christians also do it, as well. Your excuse should be restructured/repackaged.

Pastor AIO:

you ask a good question. On the subject of guidance and communication with God it is quite explicit: And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever-- {17} the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. {18} I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

Pastor, I ask you invoking the Power of Almighty Creator, to tell who was the last "Comforter," before the "Comforter," that Jesus Son of mary was talking about "its" coming, after he Jesus would have asked the "Father?" Please don't mince words. Come to the point, directly, without any concern for even your own "ego."

But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

What is it that the former "Comforter," taught, which will be relevant to what the future "Comforter," that Jesus promised will teach? Further, just to gear you to consciousness, was the former "Comforter" before Jesus was on earth through his mother, or during the time that Jesus was alive? When did the former "Comforter" tenure on earth (It seems as if Comforters to children of Israel or to human are always functioning with humans on the surface of the earth) ended, and how long did it last? How long the former "Comforter" relationship ended before the beginning of the relationship of the promised "Comforter" came? What was the nature of the former "Comforter", if the future and and the "Comforter" promised by Jesus is "Spirit?" Are the two "Comforters" one and the same , except that they came at different times? Why would "Comforters" be sent to human; especially the former "Comforter," since we know from Jesus what was the reason "Father" not Jesus would send the future "Comforter?" Did the former "Comforter" succeed in "its" duty? If so who was the former son of man that the "former Comforter" came after, in the same footstep as the "future Comforter" player after Jesus?

The promise was of the Holy spirit to guide us in all things. There was no bible at the time. For many people the bible has usurped the holy spirit and they rather play semantic gymnastics with bits of biblical text then listen to the Spirit.

Please listen to the 3 entities (Former Spirit, the first Comforter, before the Comforter spirit that Jesus promised to ask the father to send after he left, The usual Christian Holy spirit, (You may add Jesus, etc to help you)), and give me direct answers to my many questions about "Comforter" promised by Jesus. Please note that another means there was at least a single former of the same. What was the nature of the former? It is obvious to me that the former and the promised Comforters were not one and the same. Therefore, how many Comforters were available before the last one promised, which Jesus spoke about?

@Syrup:

Please do not make such silly games. TRANSLATIONS do not render the Bible itself as false. That would be saying even worse in your own case for the Qur''an.

Its surprising that you could mistake English translation of the Q.ur'a.n as the Qu.r'an. It is not possible because as you know, Yusuf Is.lam (formerly Rocker Cat Stevens), does not read the Qu.r'an in English, when he makes his Is.lam.ic prayers. The Q.ur'a.n is only in the language that one can read it in, during prayers. Only in Arabic! Get it.

And if I were in England, when the above quote of varied English translation of the Q.ur'an was alluded to, i would have educated the British public about what Q.ur'a.n is and what is not Q.ur'an.

Let me tell you, Ethiopia which has experienced as earlier than Madina, they do not read Q.ur'an in Hamhari language. How then, England/ or the whole of English can even think they know anything about what makes Qu.r'a.n, in language.

@Cayon: Do you read english? Is it not clear that in alcohol there are many sins/great sins (eg, an afrodesiac for sexual pervertion and ludeness, including (the expression of talking like a drunk?). Is this not very clear.

But in the Bible, some say that drinking a little is for the malady of the stomach. The catholic uses for sacrement or whatever. Didn't Jesus present some at the last supper? Didn't Jesus manufacture some at a wedding and let the booze flow, even much more for those who are already drunk even before this?

Please don't cheapen the Q.ur'a.n by equating it with the Bible! Puleeeeease, New Yorker.

@Olaadegbu:

All religions are superficially similar but when you scratch the surface you will find that they are fundamentally different. The Truth is truth wherever it is found. The Truth book is the revelation of God to man and this is not religion but about a Man. Let us hear the testimony of God the Father about this Man from one of the eyewitnessess in Matthew 3:16-17; 17:5. The claim of this Man in John 14:6 and the confirmation of this Man by the Holy Ghost in John 14:15-18,26.

These all point to the revelation of the Truth of God about this Man. Religions are either making up their own truths or searching for it. Buddha said "I die seeking truth", M'hammed was not sure of his destination, but Jesus Christ said that "I am the Way, the Truth and the life" this is a bold statement of fact that we should take seriously. It is clearity and unambiguity that appeals to your own truth. It is not religion but the Truth that will make us free from all the lies of the devil. He said that "I am come that they may have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." The Truth states that Jesus lived a pure and perfect life and so pleased God and that we should hear Him.

Ogbeni, you should have been able to simply google ahadith about Paradise, instead of being so predictable. Is there anyone from mankind that will enter Paradise before Mu.h.amm.ad? Never a soul before him!

From Bukhari ahadith

Volume 1, Book 3, Number 131:
Narrated Anas:

I was informed that the Prophet had said to Mu'adh, "Whosoever will meet Allah without associating anything in worship with Him will go to Paradise." Mu'adh asked the Prophet, "Should I not inform the people of this good news?" The Prophet replied, "No, I am afraid, lest they should depend upon it (absolutely)."

Volume 1, Book 11, Number 631:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "Allah will prepare for him who goes to the mosque (every) morning and in the afternoon (for the congregational prayer) an honorable place in Paradise with good hospitality for (what he has done) every morning and afternoon goings.

SAHIH BUKHARI, BOOK 10: Times of the Prayers

Volume 1, Book 10, Number 548:
Narrated Abu Bakr bin Abi Musa:

My father said, "Allah's Apostle said, 'Whoever prays the two cool prayers ('Asr and Fajr) will go to Paradise.' "

SAHIH BUKHARI, BOOK 27: Minor Pilgrammage (Umra)

Volume 3, Book 27, Number 1:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "(The performance of) 'Umra is an expiation for the sins committed (between it and the previous one). And the reward of Hajj Mabrur (the one accepted by Allah) is nothing except Paradise." If all of these

If all of these and many more, too numerous to list are means for the musl.i.ms (followers of M.uha.mma.d) to enter Paradise, just imagine the position of the Prophet, who is their chairman! You think Jesus will enter Paradise before Mu.hamm.ad? Never! Mu.hammad was the prophet God loves so much that He attaches Muha.mm.ad's name to His; Mu.hamm.adr Rasulullah.


[Quote]
Let us consider our case study once again. In our scenario, we have the culprit who has been found guilty of the crime of armed robbery; we have the judge who is a good and just judge; we also have the set penalty for the crime which is either to pay the fine of $1million or go to life imprisonment.

You have rightly said that the judge should sentence the culprit despite the fact that the culprit has pleaded guilty and has apologized for his misdemeanor. The culprit does not have the means of paying this fine and therefore has no choice other than to go to jail. But if the lawyer representing the culprit brought to the attention of the culprit that the good judge has written out a cheque of $1million to pay for his fine, the culprit has a choice whether to receive it or to turn down the offer. If he accepts the offer he walks free but if because of his pride and prestige he decides to doubt the goodwill of the judge and chooses to go to jail instead the judge will respect his wishes.

This scenario can be used to describe our reality. God is the righteous judge who's eyes cannot behold iniquity(sin) His standard of righteousness is 100%; We, humanity are the culprits that have broken His commandments, we have all sinned and fallen short of His glory; There is no amount of good works that can reach the standard of God's righteousness; The penalty for our sin is death and hell and if God is to remain righteous He must sentence us according to His law that He set in place; God in His Divine Wisdom planned a way out for us, and that is for the death penalty to be paid for. The only penalty that would be accepted is life for life. He said in Leviticus 17:11 "For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the alter to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh atonement for the soul." and "without the shedding of blood is no remission" of sin. The sin problem has been solved 2,000 years ago when Jesus Christ who was the Lamb of God shed His blood to take away the sin of the world. Jn.1:29 He stepped into the courtroom and paid the fine with His Own blood so that we could walk free.

The Word of God says that "death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof" Prov.18:21. Your decision will determine where you will spend your eternity, heaven or hell. God has created us as free moral agents and therefore would respect the decision you make, as it is not in His Character to force Himself on us. God will always respect what we consider to be our reality. Hell is self perpetuating, those who have rejected God's offer of salvation are given the opportunity to continue to live without God's presence. He always respect our wishes. He has given us that authority which He will not take away from us.[/quote]Your problem is that you did not factor in that the Judge did not make any laws. Rather he interpretes the laws and he is not above the laws. But God is different. He is the Maker of the laws, hence he is not guided by it. As I have said to you and all the Christians, God does not have a need a ransome. Hence the position that you are desperately putting Jesus in, is hopelessly flaws. Where is the true mercy, except as the M.usl.ims have indicated it?

[Quote]
Religions, whatever they may be will only at best make you know about God but will not make you to know or love God. "The thief cometh not but to steal, kill and destroy but I am come that ye might have life and that ye might have life more abundantly" that is the difference. Jesus has not only come to pay for our sins but to reconnect us back to our maker and that His life may flow through to us as was intended in the beginning, and remember that "the just shall live by his faith" Habakkuk 2:4;Rom.1:17

Romans 10:9-13

Quote
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

So what you believe and confess will determine your conversation, conduct, character and eternal destiny.[/quote]I think you are talking about Christianity. It is the christians who fluctuate between the Creator of Jesus, Jesus and a ghost as gods. Mu.s.lims know God. He is One Lord God Almighty. I know God. By A.ll.ah, I dreamt about Him! Thats how I knew my mother would not die as a Christian. I am a daayy of Is.lam (Propagator). Hang around me enough, or any of the brothers on Nairaland, InshaAllah, you will discover Isla.m.

Google the Q.ur'a.n for all your concerns. See mercy of A.lla.h about what He made M.uha.mm.ad in the lives of mankind. Read verse 128 of chapter 9 (Tauba) of the full concern for mankind, by Mu.ha.mm.ad.

@Sheniqua: Your original post is a question? No. It is a statement. I have in my entries after it, explain the rational for a man not to tell his wife that she is Pilsbury dough girl, or aunt gemima or michellin tire. What is it that is slumsy for you to understand?

If Oga said that you were the heifer or that your junk was still trying to make the corner, while the rest of you was already down the block, would there ever going to be a fitness center work out for him, with you doing the hand standing? puuleeeeeeease! Ask questions with question marks, woman!

@Pastor AIO: Please, tell me where what I wrote is not capableof standing, in defense of I.slam? Remember that all my argument is inferred from Is.l.am.

@ Sheniqua:

So this Hadith is saying that you can lie to
1. achieve success in war
2. to bring about peace
3. to help a husband and wife reconcile.
You can also
4. lie to save one's life:

If Chindler did not lie in the second world war, how many more Children of israel would have been made into soap? How many wives would be happy when the husband is brutally honest and tell her that she is like a swollen heafer instead of a philly? If america did not bravado her might in the Cuban blockade of 1962, against Russia, what would have been the number of live lost in a war that was eminent, if Russia did not take the bait? Would you, this woman who loves a lot of gymnastics gives your life up to be sniffed away so easily? Would you not lie through your teeth, to be alive, so that you can compensate yourself with a long session of good workout?

I beg woman. Face the truth and stop this Yoruba Yoruba.

@~Lady~:

And I would have to inform you that never did we claim that they didn't write it down, but that the content of what they wrote down was inspired by the Spirit of God, therefore having God as its author. They did not write down something to their own willing, but conveyed that which the Lord wanted penned down.

Therefore by osmosis, you are now blaming God for the opposing verses of One Lord God verses 3 independent persons god of the Christian? Now which one of the two is true, since they are going opposite of each other? Baby, I need just one verse and i do not want any explanation. I am not asking you to do that now. Save that energy until I ask for it.

Upon reading the Qu'ran, I conclude that the way it is written is not different from the Bible, that is why I say that the Book was not written by God or spoken by him. The Bible however is in the words of the writers. They make a distinction between the actual words of Jesus in the physical by quoting them. Now the the great book does the same with All'ah, therefore if you are to claim that the Bible is not the Word of God, it would not be wrong for me to also claim that the Qu'ran is not the Word of God.

Claim what you will. But to say that the style of the Qu.r'anic writing, is the same as the Bible shows that you have not paid attention to the essence of the Qu.r'an content. There is not mundate details in the Q.your'a.n like the irrelevent narative that is so common and the the once upon a time storylines that the Bible is known for. We do not have the speech of the companions and the next generation in the Q.your'an, whereas the Bible houses the speech and the journeys of the disciples and even later generations, like Paul. We do not have the prediction of Mu.hammad in the Q.u.r'an, while even the predictionof even Paul is in the Bible. We do not have M.uha.mmad writing about his own death, while Moses wrote about his own death! You must have taken me for a gullible hearted person if you though that i will quitely agree with your un substntiated assumptions above.

Like I said, muuuslims have generic answers to everything. You have generic assumptions and when clarified on the issue, you still stick to your assumption because that is the only "truth" that you hold. Your truth is doubt.

My Own truth is that my Lord God is One. Jesus and me hold the same truth. But I do not want you to worship me like you worship Jesus. That will be unacceptable. Come to think of it, I have beard just like him, too.


[Quote]
Take note below. I have presented you the style of writing in the Bible and that of the Qu'ran. They are the same.
Now I know you can speak and read and understand English, so please point out to me, the words of Nicodemu, Jesus, and the writer.
Then also point out to me the words of All'ah and Muhaamad.
You can highlight the words of Jesus in Red, Nicodemus in blue, Muhaaamad in Purple, All'ah in green, the writer in brown. Thanks.[/quote]I am unlettered in the act of Computer wizardry. But I know the truth, though. I know that God is not One of the Three. Thats a start. I also know that God is beyond behaving like man, or being tortured, being punished, being killed/hanged, etc.

The Bible

1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council.
2 He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."
3 In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."

You see that instead of the biblical Jesus answering the man directly, he was going to a different subject altogether? Is this the way of a prophet of God? I conclude that it is very fishy that a prophet could have gone all over the places, yet not providing an answer. Somebody delutional must have tried to introduce being born again as a concept, but he must force it into the mouth of jesus in order that it has acceptance. Don't forget that the jew was smart enough to know that he was not more than a prophet of god, even as he perfrmed all the miracles.

4 "How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"

5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
7 You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.'
8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

I wonder if this flesh gives birth to flesh, ever applies to Jesus? I want to see you tackle this poigent issue. If jesus was God or son of God (May Almighty God forgive me for een saying that a human could be He and that He may have an offspring), he would have been spirit, unseen wouldn't he?

9 "How can this be?" Nicodemus asked.

10 "You are Israel's teacher," said Jesus, "and do you not understand these things?
11 I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony.
12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?
13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.
14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,
15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.

Wasn't Elijah lifeted into heavens? There went your god's statement. The Bible itself defeats itself. Which part is lying and which part is telling the truth?

16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Play on words. See how "begotten," is missing from this major verse! Now defend it.

17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.
19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."

Where is the "begotten,' of the verse? How can I trust anything from the book that is like a fair weathered friend; always changing eager to please everyone. We call that gellyfish syndrome, because of lack of firmness of conviction.

The Qu'ran

014.024
Seest thou not how God sets forth a parable? - A goodly word like a goodly tree, whose root is firmly fixed, and its branches (reach) to the heavens,- of its Lord. So God sets forth parables for men, in order that they may receive admonition.
014.025
It brings forth its fruit at all times, by the leave of its Lord. So God sets forth parables for men, in order that they may receive admonition.
014.026
And the parable of an evil Word is that of an evil tree: It is torn up by the root from the surface of the earth: it has no stability.
014.027
God will establish in strength those who believe, with the word that stands firm, in this world and in the Hereafter; but God will leave, to stray, those who do wrong: God doeth what He willeth.

You see the firmness and directness in th speech? And M.uha.mm.ad has no speech in the Qu.r'a.n. I keep telling you, but you refuse to listen.

[Quote]
The Comforter did not all of a sudden become a ghost or spirit. It has always been that way, and yes it was acknowledged by the Prophets. I told you to know the Bible before you assume it's sayings.[/quote]You don't know the name of the holy spirit. Hence, you don't know who the comforter is, even as you call him the spirit. Whats the proper name of the holy spirit, if you will begin to fess up? The holy spirit is no one but Angel gabreil! the comforter, like the other comforter of his time, Jesus was Muha.mm.ad (AS). I beg woman, let me hear words.

[Quote]
I will continue where I left off (John 4)

10 Jesus answered and said to her, "If you knew the of God and who is saying to you, 'Give me a drink," you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.
11 The woman said to him, "Sir, you do not even have a bucket and the cistern is deep; where then can you get this living water?
12 Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us this cistern and drank from it himself with his children and his flocks?"
13 Jesus answered and said to her, "Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again;
14 But whoever drinks the water I shall give will never thirst; the water I shall give will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life."
15 The woman said to him, "Sir give me this water, so that I may not thirst or have to keep coming here to draw water."
16 Jesus said to her, "Go call your husband and come back."
17 The woman answered and said to him, "I do not have a husband." Jesus answered her, "You are right in saying, 'I do not have a husband.'
18 For you have had five husbands and the one you have now is not your husband. What you have said is true."
19 The woman said to him, "Sir, I can see that you are a prophet.
20 Our ancestors worshipped on this mountain; but you people say that the place to worship is in Jerusalem."
21 Jesus said to her, "Believe me, woman, the hour is coming when you will worship the ather neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.
22 You people worship what you do not understand; we worship what we understand, because salvation is from the Jews.
23 But the hour is coming, and is now here, when true worshippers will worship the Father in Spirit and in truth; and indeed the Father seeks such people to worship him.
24 God is Spirit and those who worship him must worship in Spirit and truth."
25 The woman said to him, "I know that the messiah is coming, the one called the Anointed; when he comes, he will tell us everything."
26 Jesus said to her, "I am he, the one who is speaking with you."[/quote]This is preaching or dialogue? Where is though shall not steal, etc, as he used to tell the Israelites? And which verse is correct when he actually likened another samaritan or a non Israelite/gentile to dog? Where is the honor calling somebody a dog? You have a reoccuring pattern in the Bible; One goes North and the other goes South!

I warned you that you should know what is in the Bible before you make conclusions.
Pay attention definitely to verse 22. He lets us know that worshipping was not take place on just that mountain or in Jerusalem. He already hinted at the whole world hearing the Gospel.
So like I said know the Bible before you speak of what it contains.

I bet if you paid attention to the fact that Jesus declared that he himself worshipped as all others who worshipped, you will not put that verse up for me. I bet that those who do not know what they worship are the Christians. Seeng that they even worship the one who also worshipped.


[Quote]
"Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted. And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age." (Matthew 28:16-20)[/quote]When you worship the entity that he himself also worships, you are just being a human worshipper here. Look at what your leadership in christendom did. And now that authority has ben given to him (lies), does it then now make him not a worshipper anymore, since he had worshipped before then? Who gave him all the authority? Is the giver not always greater than the receiver? If one receives, does it make that person equal to the giver? Could the mere authority given to Jesus (not that i believe it, but am just trying to let you see the faults in your assumptions), now make him equal to the one who gave him the authority? Is there anything that the giver kept for himself? Who is the Owner of the Throne Supreme now: Jesus or God Almighty? How do you have three godheads here all of a sudden, when he Jesus, had said earlier that his Lord God is but One God, who is also the Lord God of his audience? Which verse is correct now?

Did you catch the reason why the disciples were to go and make disciples of all nations? Before his death and resurrection it was a different story:

Did you catch how unbelievable the last story is, since every prophet before him and he before his alleged death had spoken about a single God? Didn't I tell you that your Bible is ever changing and never stable? See my point?

"These twelve Jesus sent out, instructing them, “Go nowhere among the Gentiles and enter no town of the Samaritans, but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And proclaim as you go, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matthew 10:5-7)

By the way were the samarians/samaritans themselves gentiles or not lost sheep of the house of Israel? But do you see discriminations at work in the verse, against the poor gentiles, at least?

What has changed? Very simply, Jesus has been “crowned with glory and honour because of the suffering of death.” (Hebrews 2:9) Or, in the words of Matthew, “all authority in heaven and earth” has been given to him. Now he has authority over every nation: the nations are to become his disciples.

Another change! When do you stop changing that I wonder what will be next? How can he be given glory and honor for a death that he refused to accept willingly, even though he was cultivated for it? Is this not a direct indication of being unfair? Thank you, now, we have the words of Matthew. And before long, somebody will say its all words of Christian God. Is Matthew now part of it

So no twist to reality. You won't understand because when you hear, you hear in parables. When I hear it makes perfect sense.

My darling, you are so gullible. Take a good look at it for the benefit of your soul. Don't fall for everything.

"And he said to them, “To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables, so that ‘they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand, lest they should turn and be forgiven.’” "(Mark 4:11-12)

So tell me, when is the hour, that jesus himself did not know anything about? If you can not know the precise time, please know that you have been bullwinkled. Then no secret of the kingdom of God is given to you. But I want you on my side which is the reality. I pity Jerry Fahwell, who hoped to be raptured and unfortunately died behind his desk at the office. he waited till the end, but there was no rapture!

[Quote]
How about the other things that were happening eh?[/quote]Big deal. The Lord God can do what He wants. You should first accept guidance and then we can talk about other things.

[Quote]
How naive can you be? That when there is doubt it is not real? So when you have a thought, your thoughts are not real? Abi they're fake thoughts? Let me know when the real ones come to you. So ti gbo? (i hope that's how it's spelt, lol, I'm really working on the yoruba)[/quote]lol. Oh boy, but in your case it is girl. To think or have a thought does not translate to doubt. Doubt is to entertain the possibility that it could not be true. In this case with the Bible, I am saying that the evil one has made what is false to look as the truth. And what is true, he creates the doubt that it is false. And the nonMU.sl.ims grab that wickedness of the evil one as truth! What would you take three gods to be One God, if you are not in doubt?

[Quote]
Point to the Bible verse that said Jesus did not live like a human being. Point to the verse that says that he didn't eat or sleep or wound. He was fully human, so that he could live among us, so that he could be seen with our own physical eyes by us. So that while seeing him, we can observe him and his actions and listen to his teachings. So that we can walk in his footsteps and become more closer to God, away from the sinful world and be counted into God's kingdom.
So you see, we view him as fully human, yet fully divine, because he alone was sinless. Only God can be sinless. So I have spoken this to you, I don't want you to become blind to it and bring it up as an assumption again as if I didn't explain it to you here. So i don't expect you to say something like "how can you not understand that Jesus was human and he ate?"[/quote]All the more that worshipping him, is actually a fact that you worship false god! Coupled with the verse that you listed above, where Jesus himself declared that he is one of the worshippers, like a true worshipper. Don't get angry with me o. I still want you to open your eyes and see things in all its shades of colors.

[Quote]
Yes actually I am an authority in the works of God. You see when he bestowed upon me his Spirit at my baptism, he gave me the power to trample over the devil. He gave me authority over evil. When I speak his name, the demons tremble. Perfect example, A demon possessed a man and one of the Jews tried to rebule it in Jesus name. The demon said "Jesus I know, Paul I recognise, who are you?"
The point is, when you are one of God's chosen you have authority.[/quote]So by the authority you have now, please give me the exact timing of the hour? If you can not please know that you have spoken , (I am even ashamed to tell you what I think of the fact that you will be absolutely wrong in whatever answer you provide, except i do not know). Well I don't want to even comment on the fantastic story about the Jew's effort of rebuking a demon which talks. Is this where Catholic exorsizm began?

Nonetheless, I do know that God is not an author of confusion, he will not lie. He is a God of consistency. He will not for years allow the Children of Isreal to corrupt his words and continue to send them his prophets and then all of a sudden change his mind.

What do you think Prophets are? Part of their functions is to guide, admonishes the people who are astray. Is that not obvious when Jesus said that he was sent but to the "Lost" sheep of the house of Israel? Now tell me what would would you call the fact that two verses are completely opposing each other on a single subject? Is that not confusion?

[Quote]
Yes, I do and so do many Christians.[/quote]That simply shows that God does what He wills. Afterall, Jesus was a fatherless child by a young Virgin. You see the will of God; how humongous it is? God is capable of doing all things, as He wills.

[Quote]
Unfortunately for you, my God is not a respecter of people. He will choose whom he wishes to do his work. In his eyes we are equal. We are created from the same stock. He didn't create Olabowale with the better stock and the created ~Lady~ with the poorer stock. No we are created equally.
You seem to forget that Muhaaamad raided people. He stole from them their belongings. He married his son's wife.[/quote]Zaid bin Thabit (RA) was not his son, but an adopted son. God cancelled adoptions, as it is practiced, whereby the true bloodline of the adopted is wiped off. This is the essence of marriage. Aisha (RA) defended M.uh.amm.ad in this marriage, even after the prophet was gone. I wonder if you are talking about the spoil of wars? I wonder what a victor does after a war? You leave the propers of the dead, the defeated unclaimed and unused? Even the slaves of Egypt, the Israelites borrowed the golds, animals from their masters. They took everything for themselves. Thats not even in war. Then tell me when did the Children of Israel, your so called "God chosen people," leave the properties of their victims without acquiring them? Now I did not mean that i am from a better stock. No, madam you will not hear me saying that. I am a Yoruba boy and you are Bini woman. Bini people are the fathers of the Yorubas, according to you. How can I be from a better stock, except that I am from the left over after you have been made.

See how slick I am, disarming a woman, ready to unleash her anger? Lol. Ko yo oo!

[Quote]
It is. It tells me that it is whomever wrote it.[/quote]You are not ready for truth. When you are i will be waiting, God willing.

[Quote]
Yes I did and this is a poor contrast. Forrest never spoke of himself in the third person. He never said " Well Forrest ran and ran and ran," he said "I ran and ran and ran"[/quote]You miss the whole issue of ideas, then. What Forrest did was to tell a story, so that the audience can live through it. That what God did, in the story telling part of the Q.your'an. You are the one who complained that "say," did not begin the verse that I provided. It does not matter when it was in narative, but it is always so when it is in command. In the command, God tells M.uh.amm.ad by commandment to tell the addressed people, what He commands.

[Quote]
I asked for answers to my questions, but since you decided to post your questions, I shall answer you.

Yes Jesus did call himself more than a prophet, and Son of Man. Please note that when he even called himself the Son of Man, he exalted himself.[/quote]Exaltation, for a human being to say that he is the son of man? That is just telling the truth when a person says that he is a son of man; in the case a pseudofather King David or was he talking about his mother as man?

Luke 22: 66-71
66 WHen day came the council of elders of the people met, both chief priests and scribes, and they brought him before their Sanhedrin
67 They said, "If you are the Messiah, tell us," but he replied to them, "If I tell you, you will not believe,
68 and if I question you, you will not respond.
69 But from this time on the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the power of God."
70 They all asked, "Are you then the Son of God?" He replied to them, "You say that I am."
71 Then they said "what further need have we for testimony? We have heard it from his own mouth."

Darling look at his response when they asked him about being a messiah (If I tell you, you will not believe) versus, the response ehen they asked him being son of God (You say that I am). One will see that the Biblical jesus was telling them that they will not accept his answer, because of their denial of him being the messiah to them. And Jesus answered their son of God question by saying that this is their saying, which is not the same as his. There in what produced of the bible, one sees that Jesus says he is the messiah, but they are the ones calling him son of God!

Again, we see that the Q.u.r'an is correct in every respect. In addition correct that the jews called Ezra son of God, since they call everyone and their grandpappy sons of God, anyhow.

These verses show him calling himself the Son of God and he lets us know that there is no difference between the Son of Man and the Son of God. It is the same person, Jesus. They will also answer your question as to whether or not Jesus was sent to Isreal or the world.
Pay close attention.

Nothing of sort. They called him son of God, in a questioning way and his response was that they are the ones saying it.

John 3:12 - 18

12 If I tell you about earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you about heavenly things?
13 No one has gone up to heaven except the one who has come down from heaven, the Son of Man.
14 And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, so must the Son of Man be lifted up
15 so that everyone who believe in him may have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life.
17 For God did not send his Son into the worl to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved though him.
18 Whoever believes in him will not be condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

I dealt with this above already. No begotten here. It is ordinary son, like all the sons alive at that time, since the jews were sons of God!

John 5: 25-27

25 Amen, Amen, I say to you, the hour is coming and is now here when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
26 For just as the Father has life in himself, so also he gave to his Son the possession of life in himself
27 And he gave him power to exercise judgment, because he is the Son of Man.

John 10: 36
Can you say that the one whom the Father has consecrated and sent into the world blasphemes because I said, 'I am the Son of God'"

There's more if you would like. Just so you know, all these are the words of Jesus, the Messiah, the Christ.
Go learn what Messiah and Christ mean. Like I said Muhaaamad was confused. He did not understand the scriptures when he heard them.

Nice one, except that you did not remember that Jesus was asked at the critical and crucial point to declare his son of godship, but he did not? All you have presented is girations between two polarities. And they oppose each other, with the greatest of opposition.

[Quote]
You should always be careful what you asked for.

Acts 8:26-40
I don't have enough time to write it out to you, so I will have to do so later. I have to leave work now.[/quote]When you present it, you will read my response. I ask for many things and i have to deal with them as they manifest into reality.

Have a great weekend.

You too.

@Davidylan: When you ask generic questions, generic answers you will get. You questions are devoid of thoughts, so a repeat of the truth (as answers), should be "served up" to quell your agitation. Where is the lie when your Bible is jumping all over the places, between One singular God on the one hand and a multiheaded persons god on the other hand? The liar has to be you, going all the way back to the first people who uttered that God is one of the three. Lo joko, jo!

@~Lady~: Your yoruba still need a lot of work. But a trying. Older person, we say Se e ti gbo, instead of So ti ti gbo. Really you did not put the e (a plural intonation) denoting a tone of respect. You will get there. I just need to provide that pointer before I address your effort in putting forward a defense for the inuendos in the Bible.

@Olaadegbu: You have presented absolutely rubbish! Sorry to say. But it is the truth from my soul and my heart. You have forgotten that the Bible even stated by your definitions above that Jesus of the Bible had sinned and imperfect: He curse an innocent tree which obeyed the laws of its Creator, in terms of its season to produce edible fruits. The Bible Jesus was practically going against the will of Biblical God, when the Biblical Jesus began to find ways of not going on the cross, so that his soul can be cursed for your benefit (remember that his soul does not even benefit from this tragedy). This all took place with the climatic cry "my God, my God, why has thou forsakened me?" If tour Biblical jesus was perfect, there would never have any possibility for Satan to have the means of tempting him. But in this case he was tempted 3 times, for food, for worldly possession and to show relationship with God. In all, if this is your role model I do not want any part of you and your Biblical role model.

But wait, the Qur'a.n declares that saving a soul is like saving all mankind: We see that all humanity began with the production (as if saved) of a single soul, Adam.

We see that a person who brough peace and reconciliation between parties has averted rancor and rifts between the parties.

We see that a spouse that speaks goodly with the patner will have a very inviting and welcoming bed to sleep in.

We see that a person who speak eloquently about a way to avert a war has displayed heroizm. If a person has all these qualities above, then believes in God, absolutely and do good work in righteousness, hoping for reward with the God Almighty Creator, alone, please know that God will shower His Mercies and His Forgiveness on this soul. The soul will not enter Hellfire but Paradise, InshaAllah.

Allah says in the Qu.r'a.n that we His creations should not be hopeless about His mercies and Forgiveness. He further states that He forgives who He wills. He promises Paradise, where there is bliss and no weariness. Now thats my Lord God Allahu Ta'ala. He promises Hell to those who say God is One of the three. That will be you, Mr. Christian. In hell it is stated that people will not be dead, but not alive either in term of ever increasing punishment they receive.

Finally, your three for one godheads sound like Onishongo of Oyo, the Oloshun of oshogbo, the Aborisha of Ijebu ode (since I am an ijebu ode boy, i do not want people to say that Olabowale is partial). I do not want to be like you, mister. I wonder which of the godheads will stop the other which is bent on punishing you, since they ae all separate and apart, full god each? I hope you learn that you are on a path leading to pardition via this exchange.

You still have time to make a 180 degree turn. That is best for you.

@Davidylan:

However you slice it, there is no way that Jesus himself, in the above quoted verse said God is One, then all of a sudden after he had been raised up and "residing in heaven," all of a sudden turned around and said that God is 3 personalities in one christian god!

Aburo, re nle! Liar. Pitfully deceiving us will not work. I will begin to post verses that speak about one God versus Verses that speak about multiple gods. Then I will ask you a yes or no about each side by side: and I will not take a silly expalnation for an answer.

Jeje mi ni mi nlo ti nwando nto nija o. E wo mo yio. E ba mi so fon mo yio. Now lets bring Lagos yoruba out to the open. Gangan.

Nwando thinks she can just throw down the guntlet and scooter off like that? She thinks this is "Gran Ol Party", where they slit, slide and cover each others evils? lol.

Sisi 9ja, where are you? Drag yourself out, whereever you her between Dallas/Fort Worth, Houston (Nigerian Texas usual destination) Or are you protecting the fort of Alamo?

@Sheniqua, etc: Baby, look and tell me how the below Old Testement, New Testament verses agree with the Qur'anic verse, but then all of a sudden Trinity came to the picture?

“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord.” (Deuteronomy 6:4)

It was repeated word-for-word approximately 1500 years later by Jesus when he said “, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord.” (Mark 12:29)

Muhammad came along approximately 600 years later, bringing the same message again:

“And your God is One God: there is no God but He, ” (Quran 2:163)

And where is the truth of of the New testament, except that its all lies? The Biblical lies? Baby, am waiting? You gotta proof your bonafides!

@Olaadegbu:

Alhaji, when I remembered your cock and bull story about how Adam sneezed and exclaimed Alhamdulillah I laughed. You must be the "muludun" of New York if not of Nairaland

So in Christianiology, tell us what happened when Adam became a person? Could you tell us if you know what he was because he became human? If he was moulded from soil/water (as in clay), what position was he? When the Soul/Spirit was blew into him, what did he do? Did he eat? When he sneezed sometimes during his lifetime, what did he do? And how long was he alive before his mate, our mother Hawa (Eve) was created from a bent part removed from him? Why was Hawa created? I could ask you a thousand questions about Adam. And i am sure from your Bible, you will be unable to answer most of them. Even the place where he was created you will not know. You will not even know how Satan became his enemy before he became the enemy of both husband and wife by seducing them to go near the tree, against the commandment of God. You will not even know that Adam and Hawa (Eve) were sent down to the earth after this, since you believe that there is a garden of Eden somewhere in Iraq. Please where is the tree and where is the garden in war riddn Iraq?

@Syrup and Sheniqua: The Bible verses 1 Corinthian 9, verses 19-23 seems like deceit to me in a snaky kinda way. A venominous ladden snake acting as an ordinary rope. Is this the way to win people, if you are sincere? This is more camelionic that the real one in the jungle!

The same you, ladies will have a fury worse that "Christian lake of fire," when the husband actually tell her she is kinda chunky! And by the way which one is true, lake of fire or hellfire? When you find the answer you will know that what Paul said is not less than PURE LIES, like the pure water that Nigeria almost single handedly invented!

Worst, is that the Christian invented a set of lies against God and the messengers of God, Jesus whom you exagerated to the point you deitified him, M.uhamm.ad whom you do not even acknowledge,even when the evidence of him being the comforter is so overwhelming, and others before Jesus whom you considered to just be mere patriachs!

@Pastor AIO: Thanks for pointing out the deceits in the Bible. Please keep them coming. Between me and Sheniqua, today na today!


Although I am free in regard to all, I have made myself a slave to all so as to win over as many as possible.
20
To the Jews I became like a Jew to win over Jews; to those under the law I became like one under the law--though I myself am not under the law--to win over those under the law.
21
To those outside the law I became like one outside the law--though I am not outside God's law but within the law of Christ--to win over those outside the law.
22
To the weak I became weak, to win over the weak. I have become all things to all, to save at least some.
23
All this I do for the sake of the gospel, so that I too may have a share in it.
24

Big time Gimmick. More like switcharoo. Bait and switch. That type.

@Olaadegbu:

@olabowale,

Good day, I hope you woke up well today? And I hope you did'nt forget to say Alhamdulillah when you sneezed this morning

I said it. Alhamdulillah to be alive. The allergy is affecting me this year for the first time. Too much pollens and ragweeds, etc.

Quote from: olabowale on Today at 01:47:53 AM
@Olaadegbu: I clicked on the Nairaland link that you gave above, to my surprise, it was MC Usman that was analysing Oneness of God. I am very convinced from his presentation, that he completely disagreed with your obvious mistake of saying 3 distinct and complete entities make up One God!


Ai tete mole ole m'oloko

Below is the link I was referring to in response to babs787's question on this thread https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-68474.128.html:

In the future, type the correct link that you mean to provide. What provided before as a rebuttal to Babs787 was different. Please compare, because your Yoruba proverb is actually talking about you.

Posted by: OLAADEGBU
Insert Quote
Quote from: babs787 on May 26, 2008, 09:06 PM
@Olaadegbu

Brother, you know the truth and I pray it would set you free because our God is not an author of confusion, giving prophets different messages and if you do not prove all things, how would you know the truth and hold onto it. I have given you enought facts but I know it is God that delivers. We are here to just preach but the rest lies with God. We may take a horse to a stream but cannot force him to drink. I asked questions which seemed difficult for you and if you think that you can't not answer those questions because they are undeniable truth, wh not embrace the truth before its too late.

It will be great if you realise and believe that The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will not allow His Words to be corrupted, added to, subtracted from or substituted. In His providence He has preserved His Words from pollution. If you really want the Truth to set you free click on the thread where your questions will be answered:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-68474.0.html#bot

And by the way, I answered you day of Judgement question, already. I am expecting you to come up with a thousand and one gimmicks. Everyone of them, InshaAllah, there will be truly host to goodnesss real life answer(s).

@Olaadegbu:

@olabowale,

Good morning this morning, I hope the weather is fine where you are.


Quote from: olabowale on May 27, 2008, 08:36 PM
@Olaadegbu: Thanks. Am fine. I hope you are of good cheers, too?
Exactly what the penalty called for; a $1M USD or life impresonment. The guilty will have to make his own choice between the two.


That was a good judgment, making you a just judge. Now another scenario is if or when you die and face God at the judgment throne and you are found guilty of breaking God's commandment on earth, and God who is a righteous judge, has to decide, will He be right and just to sentence you to hell even if you plead guilty and that you are sorry?

It will be right for God to sentence me to Hell in His enactment of His Justice because He is a Just Judge, the Altimate Ruler. And I will say Alhamdulillah if I were heading into Hell for two reasons: My Lord spoke to me and He was just with me.