₦airaland Forum

@4Him:

Olabowale, you had an entire page rebuttal and NOT IN A SINGLE LINE did you address the central question - what happened to the ishmaelites between the period of his alleged sacrifice and the advent of moh'ammad?

You are suffering from cronic delution. And I see that this is because of your hatred for anything other than Israelites and Jesus. Well there were and there are peoples other than Isralites on earth. And there were prophets who were more beloved to God before Jesus and there was a prophet who was most beloved after him. Deal with it.

It is almost sickening responding to you, but my hope in your future turning around keeps me going forward. You are a classic example of the Qu.r.'anic verse of blind, deaf and dumb in Baqarah. Do you know everyday to day events in the lives of the Children of Israel from the time they arrived in Egypt during the time of Joseph authority to just before the prophethood of M.u.h.ammad was announced in Arabia? If you dont know, except the religious note worthy events, then you already have the answer that alluded you about the Arabs of Makka. It is very obvious that it was a trading route, and a centere of Paganism because of the many idols in the Kaaba. It is obvious if you had thought about it that the place used to be visited annually in their Pilgrimage.


In the Q.ur.'an the chapter titled the elephant's event ossurred in the year of the birth of the prophet. It is obvious that from fewer people who arrived after Ismail and his mother were left there had swelled to a noticeable crossroad city among the arabs. It is because of the pilgrimage that prompted the people of the elephant to mount an assult against it.

My question to you is this, whats purpose does it serve you to know their preis.slamic period, but then you refused the is.lam that sprang from them to benefit the rest of the world? Aren't you being dishonest here? You are confronted with the truth, you are rejecting it. But you want to know what was happening to them in the time of their ignorance! All they were doing was doing evil and Is.l.am came to eradicate all of the evils. It came to eradicate idolatry, adultory, killing of their daughters who they often buried alive, generational wars and rancours between tribes and families, lack of worship to God, except that they set up mediator/intercessor/savior (does this ring a bell?), etc. All of the ills, Is.l.am came to eradicate them.

@4Him:

If indeed we assume that the fraud of ishmael being the beneficiary of Abraham's blessings is true . . . why did ALL all'ah's so-called prophets now come from the lineage of Isaac for 4000 straight years?
Where is the history of ishmael and his people IN THE QU'RAN?

Were there humans prior to 4000 years ago, counting from after the people who survived the flood of Noah settled down? Were there no societies known, like the whole of Persia, Iraq, Chiness, India, and others, including Egypt, etc? Did God abandoned them just because they were not the Jewish blood? And by the way Jewish blood could never in ethnic and religion expection of it, could not include Ibrahim, and his children and his grand children. We see that Jacob was named Israel and not jew. Up to the time of the end of Joseph, we never heard one time the word Jewish or Judaism.


We must never forget that God called Ibrahim His friend. He did not call Issac that. Nor was Jacob called that either. And Q.u.r'an is not a storyteller without a central message. We read in it the interaction of Ibrahim and his son in building the Kaaba. That son was not seyidina Issac, by Ismaila (as jamiah). We read about the slaughter and and covenants /request of Ibrahim and the ransome and acceptance from Ibrahim by God respectively. The essence of it is that God had provided what he provided in all of those milliniums to Makkans while the Children of israel had their time in the sun. That was their glory days. God did this because of His promise in the relationship with ibrahim which was guaranteed for life.


Then after Jesus, there was that 5 centuries plus period before it is Mu.ha.mmad for Arabs who were with any prophets (the branch of Ibrahim that you considered ignored) and mankind in general, the people who did not receive any prophet or direct relations of Ibrahim. Yet the Jews as you want to call them were now part of mankind that are now covered. Everyone on equal footing and not a group of tribes, etc having advantage to God over the rest of us. He had his companions from all groups of people and not just like all the other prophets before him. It is this position of being the last prophet who corrected all the prior human errors and additions into God previous revelation that bite you and people who think like you so badly that you fail to see the present and current reality.


Do you think God will only have mercy on the children of isaac and condemn the rest of us? No, no no, my Lord is not a tribal Lord. he is a merciful god and His mercy covers all. He decides as He pleases Him. He does not have to say the will of some other entity will be done. And finally, it is Mercy through the final prophet/Messenger covers all. We see that the jews always have what i call only through them for salvation and mercy before Muha.mm.ad. But in the honor given to Mu.ha.mmad, mercy and salvation is equally available to all.

@~Lady~:

LOL, i'M SURE SHE ALREADY DID AND FOUND IT IN CHRISTIANITY.

From what she gets from you she only sees dodging of the question. Answer the questions man.

You spoke presumptiously. There is no Christian in my life, except M.u.s.l.i.ms. In my future, I meant there is at least an opening for a christian, who in time will become a m.us.li.m. I spoke in african expression and David got it.

It is different because that is what the Qu'ran tells you, prove the Qu'ran.

Why was the covenant made with the Arabs but carried out by Jewish Prophets?

It is different because from whatever remains of the truth that was given to Jesus, we see in the Bible that Jesus prayed to a Lord God Who is different and Superior to him. The One Who accepts or rejects prayers. The One Who's Will must be done, instead of the will of Jesus. I have only used the prayer at the garden of Geshimene to argue my point here. I will argue further if it is not clear to you. Thats after you have studied that portion of the Bible!

Show us where they disagreed

You will not tell me that none of the desciples had issues with Paul, would you? I will get one to whet your appetite, later.

So how did the Qu'ran be 100% word of God? Because Muhaamad said so? Did God write it down? Who's to say that Muhaaamad didnt add his own bits and pieces, infact who's to say that he didn't just come up with it himself.

It is 100% word of God because no man had any of his own words in it. You will know that if a person were to produce a master piece, he will not give the credit to some other entity. So with that in mind, how can this man who was unlettered produce a masterpiece likw the Q/u.r'an and he gave the full credit to God, an Unseen entity? The only reason he could have done such a thing is because he was not the writer all along. The Witer is God and he deserves His glory. And what bits and pieces are you talking about. tell me something that you can point out that is a lie from it? Read the whole Bible, there is no mention of Pharaoh of Moses body. But the Q.u/r'an confirms that his body was preserved, and why it was preserved!

Now let me explain to you how it works in the Bible.

Inspired men were moved by the Spirit of God to write the books that make up the Bible. It is God's word because having beeen written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, the books have God as the author.

Theories that are riddled with assuptions. If God were to tell anyone about His nature, the prophets before Jesus had that right. The message would not deviate from after Jesus message. There would never have been any inconsistencies.

Maybe that was too hard for Muhaaamad to comprehend. That God could actually use men as instruments to do his work.

Was Mu, hamm.ad not a man? Was he not after all of them? Was he not therefore in the position to correct the previous mistakes of those "inspired writer?'












[Quote] ;Why? Because human logic cannot explain it?

I thought God was capable of anything. If you say no, you're limiting his abilities.[/quote]God said that He will not burden human more than the capability of the human. The way God manifest Himself is not contrary to human capability to understand and human logic to appreciate. God is capable ofdoing all thing. But there are somethings he will not do. he will not be Unjust, hence the original sin, will not wah. If it did, all the children who died without committing any sins of their own will go to hellfire/lake of fire, according to that concept.

And as per the majesty of God, He will not humiliate Himself at the hands of creations to save creations. And as per what is written in the Bible, there is no guarantee that those who accepted the process of trinity will not have a single one of them going to Hellfire/lake of fire. And my proof is in the Bible itself, Jesus said that not all who called him god will be saved. And those who will not be saved will even say that they performed great healing by his name, but even their statement will not make him protect them from hell fire/lake of fire. Finally, in the Bible, it is stated that God is not the author of confusion. Now tell me, which is correct between God is One and then He is three? Which is just and merciful in judging a person by the truth in belief and worship and work versus condemning a child who died because of the sin that is Original, committed by the first couple?

Yes it's in the Bible, go and read it.

I will have to sift through the admixtures of paul, peter, etc and after all of that Jesus word, in paraphrasing will be just a handful. Is that what you want?

then you don't believe in My God. My God is Almighty, and capable of everything including walking the earth that he created, whispering to us through the wind, reaching out to us through everyday people, sacrificing himself so that we may be free (as a real parent would, but then again you don't believe you are a child of God).
Sir you limit your god because your god cannot have children, if so then he had intercourse with a woman. Your god cannot form himself as a man, so what can your god do.

My God A.lla.h the Almighty can do everything. Yet He says in His book that somethings do not befit His Majesty. You know, like death, etc. he is the Creator, hence has the power to forgive without anyone challenging His decision. He does not have the human insticts which he created for us. So there is no need for a child for any purpose. Did He not ransome the son of Ibrahim from the intent of Ibrahim to slaughter that son in order to demostrate the obedience in the commandment that he knew he had to fulfil? Yet there was no shephard who lost am animal. That is the Power of the Almighty. I will the rest alone until future discussion.

Those who worshipped idols believed that their god were merciful, beneficient, powerful, but they knew that it couldn't be a man, it couldn't have children because it couldn't copulate with a woman and so on. See the parallel do we?

But no m.u.s.lim worships Idol. Idol is the very thing I/s.lam destroys, be it that of the physical or imagined in the earth. If anyone qualifies for idolators, it would not be from I.s.lam. When Makka fell to the power of i/s.lam, the only thing destroyed were the 360 idols. There was none of them left standing.

I will leave the matter of idolatry alone when it comes to christianity, since my intention is not to offend anybody.

Why would you need the gospel of barnabas when you have the Qu'ran? I thought the Qu'ran had everything, so why can't you learn everything from the qu'ran? This is one of your contradictions. You tell me that the qu'ran had all the answers so but now your'e saying if you can't get it from the qu'ran. My dear it would be no if, if it was 100% true.

I never needed Barnabas, etc for anything. And my belief ing that Jesus is a worthy prophet and his apostles were his helpers in spreading his prophetic mission, all are from Qu.r.'an and Sunnah. I am satisfied.

God does not lie, and he makes no mistakes. So when in writing his book why was there a mistake and Muhaaamad put down that A''llah has three daughters and they are to be worshipped and then took it out and said it was of the devil. How can the devil even be allowed in the presence of God, how can the devil even gain influence to the word of God? I mean seriosuly?

Thats new to me. And i read the Q'ur, 'an daily. You should dirrect where God said He had three children or any  child regardless of the gender. I am giving you a major leeway here. I will not even talk about the temptations of Christ in the Bible. Or the not knowing about the season of the fig.

If God cannot have a son, how come he had daughters? Did he have daughters?

I am sure you are very familiar with rhetoric questioning. Please provide the verses where God says in the Q.u.r'an that He had ay child, daughter or daughters or son or whatever. Anywhere.

How come he was a messiah to the Jewish people, but the covenant was made with the Arabs?

It is clear that Ibrahim, who was from Ur city in Iraq, could never have been Jewish. Its impossible for the Nigerians who are in Russia, regardless of their citizenship there to be refered to as Ethnic Russians. It is therefore impossible that Ibrahim would be known by an ethnic name that is culled from Juhah, the brother of Joseph.

But what is interesting is that the covenant that was between god and ibrahim covered all his children. A sign of this is circumcision of the males. All arabs are circumcised. Not only Jews have this. I am circumcised and i am not even a jew, neither by blood nor by religion! But in time, after Jesus God in His Infinite Mercy raised Muha.mm.ad from the Arabs, a direct lineage of Ismail, the first and if for a short time, an only son of Ibrahim. nor where is the confusion? At least Ibrahim, the friend of God knew his children in essence more than you or me.

ok so why are you praising God for his writing?

Even in bad situation you can see a silver lining. What I praise God for in His writing is what I praise God for in His Majesty. Afterall, God is One Lord. It is the truth that i see in the heap that stands to be examined. God is not man or woman and He is not weak and no one can overtake Him. No eyes had ever seen Him.

No one is the all knower of things, however if I ask you how old Mary was when she gave birth to Jesus, you would tell me 13-16, yet the Qu'ran said she's the sister of Aaron, how is that possoble? was she 13-16 for centuries?

Are mankind not all brothers and sisters? Are we not all children of Adam and Eve? Are Yorubas and Binis not even children of the same father, Oduduwa? Even some Onisha people have told me that their story is from the story of the yorubas. How interesting is that? What are the odds? You have Oba in Benin. Your iyashere, ojumu are all present in owo, ondo state. Ondo state is part of Yoruba you know!

Yeah it may be true that it would be hard not to take the accolade unless the main purpose is to mislead people, which can be done and possibly has been done. But you are mistaken about the Gospels of Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John. They were the writers but didn't give the title to the books. The title was given to the books by the Bishops. This was to give direction to which book was written by whom. This was done with guidance from the Holy Spirit.

I wonder if you want to deceive a person, why not deceive that person all the way. Why just stop at the middle, especially to give praise to thae person and his mother. I see that Jesus' mother was really spoken about in the bible. But the Q.u.r'an called her the best from womanhood. I wonder if i will call a Russian the best woman over my Nigerian women. Except i am forced by a powerful force that I can not refuse. Give me the last names of the gospel writers, since it is according to, it suggests that somebody else wrote them.

The Books of the Bible have as their principal author the Holy Spirit, although He Himself did not write them. The Holy Spirit inspired the human authoers of the Bible to write down in their own words, and in the manner and style of the day (so that people may understand them), what he wanted them to write, and He guided them to the extent that they wrote faithfully what they had ben taught. This working together of God and man in the writing of the Bible is called inspiration. This inspiration covers not only matters of faith and morals, but extends as well to the facts of history as related, and to the whole Bible.

There lies the truth about the for sure future change of word from the bible, since it has to be written in the style of the day. Future is a day that will come, but not yet here!

Remember the Bible is not just made up of the New Testament but the Old Testament also.

And i remember it well. I am sure Moses would have told us that his God lord who defamed Pharaoh and his power was more than 1. But he didn't. Hwe only spoke about One Singularly God who holds all Power!

Well what I want to know is why an Arabic prophet? Why didn't he just send another prophet from amongst the Jews as he had always done in the past. When they disobeyed him and the previous prophet passed, he restored another one to do his work and caution the Jews and set things straight. Why didn't he follow his pattern? or is he confused?

The last I checked, M.u. h.ammad was a direct descendant of Ismail who was the first son of Ibrahim. And it was Ibrahim who All.ah the Almighty God had a direct alliance with, whom He called His friend. Not not Issac, nor, Jacob, nor Joseph , nor his brother Judah who is the father of the true tribal Jews, a branch from the total group known as Children of Israel. I don't even hear about the josephites, who was the prophet that his father Jacob and all his brothers, including Judah bow down to, as fulfilment of his dream. The last I checked, God is not beholding to any man or group or tribe or nation of mankind. It is they, all who need and depend on Him. How long should god correct a perso or people before he punishes them? Did He not punish Sodom and gomorrah before Issac was even born? Did he not wipe out mankind to just a handful in the time of Noah? When God Almighty decided to end the His relationship with the jews, he did not need any permission from anyone. Not even any Angel.

Did he say "well I know I made the covenant with the Arabs but I kind of want the fruition of that covenant to come through the Jews, but they're not listening to me, so I'm going to send them a prophet again, and again, and again, but I'm just going to give it a try and send one from the Arabs this time"
Well the Jews aren't obedient to Muhaaamad, so where's the next prophet? Did God abandon the Jews all of a sudden?

There is no trial in the vocabulary of God. he commands. He decides. he knows all things, including the outcome of it and the "hour!" God Almighty has confirmed that there is no Prophet and or Messenger after M.u.ha.mmad. God confirmed in the Qur.'an that He has perfected the deen of I.s.lam as a completion of favors of religious process of worship on mankind, through Mu.ha.mmad.  He further states that whoever comes in the day of judgement with any other deen, different from i.s.l.am, it will be rejected and will not be accepted. That person will be a loser.

I can seclude myself from society because I am angry at the way it is going. I can show up and say that I received a revelation from God and this is what he said: I the Lord am one and I alone should be worshipped, all the messengers and prophets are humans and nothing more, so if you were to be instructed to worship any one of them, you shouldn't. There is paradise and hellfire as rewards for obedience and disobedience to God's commandments respectively. What is the difference between me and Muhaamad?

If this is your argument, it is a weak one. The different between you and M.u.ha.mmad are many: First you are woman, and there is no woman prophet from Isla.mi.c perspective. Those who vouched for the great quality of M.u.ha.mmad were everyone in his town. I doubt if you are known by every one in that same vein in your neighborhood. And there is no proven miracles through you. And by the way, it is the very book that he said was revealed to him in a period of 23 years is standing on change for over 1400 years and counting. In that book, it is stated that God will protect the book till the end of time, while the "inspired Bible" never stopped making a shift eevr so slightly, till the end of time. My darling, I have too many things to say, but its best to just wait till for future opportunity to say some of it.
What is the difference between Muhaaamad and Joseph Smith? Didn't both of them receive revelations from an angel of God? Weren't both of them annoyed with their societies? Do you see the parallel there?

Until you can prove the authenticity of the Qu'ran, don't quote it for me, or use it to prove a point.

lol. And you promise me to open a thread for this purpose. Am waiting. And by the way, how do you figure that you can even use the bible written by the inspired men in their own words to proof anything to me? I will not allow you the luxury. (Am grinning).

Here is the same thing from a Christian perspective. God is ever merciful that he sacrificed himself for our salvation. WHomever does not believe in him will not receive mercy. Whomever sins against him shall be forgiven as long as the person seeks forgiveness. But there are those who will hear and not believe, the Spirit is not with them. They have hardened their heart away from God.
Why are you born of man and woman and not just created from clay as Adam was and your wife created from a part of you? If you have nothing to inherit from Adam? If you do not inherit original sin? Why didn't God just start afresh, afterall it's a new man being created?

I guess that Adolf Hitler believed and am sure before he died, he should have asked for forgiveness. He was under the spirit, like every believing Christian. And what  I inherited from Adam was the process of seeking forgiveness, the knowledge that the devil is an open enemy to me, and many others. But I do not inherit from him an original sin which will not be forgiven. And if God does not forgive, then the person is doomed!

I read it without the attachment to the Bible. Remember I questioned you about the "We" I could have easily said: there the trinity is mentioned in the Qu'ran, but I didn't.
I approach the Qu'ran with history.

If you know anyone who can tell you how Oba of Benin addresses himself , you will hear that it is what we call "Majestic pronoun; the we and us!"  Even if parent talk to a child, the parent may use plural for him or herself. My dear I will touch up on that later. But it is not that a person is more than 1 when a King uses plural for himself. Listen to the Queen of England.

I addressed this issue above.
I think that was my point. That they didn't believe. I called an orange an orange.

Is there another earth that Musl.li.m's Qur'a, n needs to talk about, except the same earth that we all share, all mankind, regardless of religion? Is there any othe Phatraoh of Moses, or Moses and the children of Israel? This is why you see that Qur'a.n is better suited to correct all that is wrong with fallacous Books. And in the long run the truth as it has always been with the prophets before the pens of the men began to corrupt them, is now preserved, finally in a Book standing uniquely alone.

1. It is not blind faith. It is proven faith, in my life too. Don't forget I have experienced it for myself. I am not just blindly following what someone said.
2. Who said the creator of the earth is not the creator of heaven? Oh yeah you are speaking as if you understand what earth means here. I believe I already explained this to you, when I told you that Christians are not of this world. Now you know what earth is.

I will only respond to the christians are not from this earth statement. But for now you are here, on the earth alive. Is anything that you do on this earth relevant to your destination in heaven for either paradise or Fire of hell? Will there be anything that you do in heaven that will qualify you all of a sudden for either Paradise or Hell fire? Are christians created differently from non Christians? What are we talking about here?

@Davidylan: You know me enough by now that few things bother me. And the Bible is probably the last of them. Just to let you know, there is still a christian woman in my future. Hopefully, she will see the goodness of I.s.l.a.m in me and before she dies make the right decision.

@Davidylan: I hope you will use the same brush to paint everytime.

The problem is you don't have any words of barnabas to read from. What you have is a 14th century forgery.

Apply that to your Bible since you did not have 100% words of Jesus, a Prophet. What you have which can not be trusted are words primarily coming from paul and company. (It sounds like coutts and company of England).

and threatening to kill us is the right way to make us accept this fraud called a prophet?
WHY MUST WE ACCEPT HIM?[/quote Your definition of fraud is any one who provides proof of your accepted fallacy. And no one is forcing you to accept anything. Your own refusal will witness against you at the appointed time.

I give up arguing with these blind bats.

And bats as designed by God is provided with sonar to navigate, even in the dark. So there is no argument.

@Davidylan:

Pardon me, but sir you lack wisdom.
Maybe i should make it bold enough for you to read - THERE IS A VERY CLEAR DIFFERENCE IN THE BIBLE BETWEEN DISCIPLES AND APOSTLES.
Paul (ditto for Barnabas) was never one of the 12 disciples BUT he was an apostles - one sent to preach the gospel or as a delegate. Which is very different from disciple - a follower.

All the gospel writers were apostles but not all were Christ's physical disciples.

But Paul preached a different message from what your lord, master Jesus preached about God and himself. Thats the point. It is obvious that desciple of Jesus will be apostles and there is no doubt that each had more one on one know how more than Paul. If any of them were to disagree, as they did with what Paul preached, then the preaching had been "incorrect!" You will have to agree that if all that Jesus said was written down accurately, there would not be any reason for the four gospels. Unfortunately Paul and company put their bits in the Bible, since according to what you said, they were apostles who were send to preach. If what they preached were put in the Bible, as they are in the Bible, you will not sincerely with straight face say thats "100% words of God?"

And we see very clearly that what Jesus might have said, if not exact words, but in ideas could never be different from what all other prophets before him. There is no way that the God that created Adam and then his mate, Eve is 3 personality godhead. (Am always fighting within me to be mild in my words about this). David you have a problem and its a DOUZIE.

the gospel Christ preached is right there in the bible.

Do you sincerely know them? Do you, word for word, in his own words, alone?

I think we have belaboured this issue because you're trying to force the idea that we believe in the same God. No we don't.
My God i know, who is yours?
You can choose whatever description you want for how your god acts, i choose to follow the bible to understand mine.
End of argument.

I know that my God is not a man, was not killed, Invisible, Most powerful, Most beneficient, Most Merciful and not multipersonality entity!

you goofed. i have no disagreement with Barnabas, i only have a disagreement with those who dishonestly wish to use his name to launder their fraud of a religion using a forged manuscript.

I am sure that Barnabas know more about Jesus than you ever could. I will take his opinion over yours any day, if I did not already know everything needed to know from AlQ.u.r'an.

Do you even understand what Messiah means?
The gospel of Barnabas CATEGORICALLY indicates that Jesus denied being the Messiah, does that not contradict you and the qu'ran here?

I know what messiah means. And Jesus is a messiah to his people alone. And not the world over. And what you fail to see is that there is no m.u.s.lim who says that he takes any statement over the Q.u.r'an.

You talk about truth YET you cling tenaciously to the false. What a sad commentary on is'lam.

What is wrong with you is exactly what is wrong with the Jews: You never take the step essential to accept the prophet of your time.






@~Lady~: [Quote] Barnabas was never a "direct" disciple of Christ.

If you guys are going to dismiss Paul then you must also dismiss Barnabas.

Funny thing is the answers that you guys give in one question contradicts the answer that you give in another. Your memory needs to get better. Stop picking and choosing that which makes your argument look good. Because you become caught in a web of lies.[/quote]I dis miss both of them, since we do not particularly take the position that Barnabas is 100% correct. I read the Bible before, as I have told you. I am very satisfied with the Q.u.r'a.n. My duty is to be sincere about the ministries of each prophets/messengers about their God. None of them had the write or mandate to say anything other than the fact that he was a bearer of the commandment that God is One and he only should be worshipped and depended upon.

Olabowale be careful that you don't contradict yourself as you have done many times on this board and in conversation with me. I take notice of them and will bring them to your notice soon.
Don't let your answers contradict each other.

I am a human being. Am not the knower of all things, God. When I contradict myself, let me know. Take advantage of my humanness. But remember God Almighty, always.

And I am still waiting for proof that the Qu'ran is the Word of God, other than Muhaaamad said so and it is said in the Qu'ran. SHow me the proof, because all you say from the Qu'ran in baseless. [/quoyte] What proof do you need? If a man wrote the Q.ur.'an, it would be hard pressed not to take the accalade of what that master piece provides. Look at the Bible, every book had the name of the supposed writer. Even the scribes had his own name in there. Remember the "Gospels according to, mark, matthew, John, Luke?" Even Paul and company and all the apostleshad the names of the apostles in there. Please use this alone and other reasons that you should know that Q.u.r'a.n is the true words of God to make up your mind. We all have a long way to go. We are still alive and thats a reason for uptimism.





[Quote]And I am still waiting for proof that the Qu'ran is the Word of God, other than Muhaaamad said so and it is said in the Qu'ran. SHow me the proof, because all you say from the Qu'ran in baseless.

Whats baseles about there is Only One God, worship Him? Whats baseless about all prophets/messengers were humans and nothing more, since they delivered God commandments to humans? Whats baseless about there is paradise and hellfire as rewards for obedience and disobedience to Gods commandments respectively?






@Davidylan:

Mus'lims seem to be detached from reality. Does the qu'ranic sun still set in a muddy spring?

Where is the detachment; Is there any other Creator than God? And at sunset doesn't the clearest and bluest of water look muddy in the sense that it become dark? Have you ever been to the bank or shore of a large body of water during sunset and see the truth that is a misery to you? Go to any of the many lakes; Lake Erie or the Niagara falls which is next door to you. Or travel to any beach in the Northeast. You will see. Seeing is believing. My concern is this you belief what is unbelieveable, but what you can see with your own eyes and you can wrap your thinking around it, you will not believe? Aa re, Dafidi?

To disbelieve in it is to extricate yourself from the powerful grip of the devil.

And in the Qu.r.'a.n, we are commanded to see safety inGod against the Shaitan, Satan, Devil, when we begin to read the Q.u.r'a.n. Is there a better proof that we are getting away from the grip of the devil? (Today na today, taking a quote from Nwando)!

oh please, when are you people going to regale us with all'ah's promises, love, mercy, grace? Everything is all about his threats!!

A man who is warned and take no notice has himself to blame. That is when the consequences of not heeding the warnings. The reward of obedience is mercy, forgiveness of minor sins, if one avoids the major sins. One of the major sins is the 3 in 1 concept, because God categorically declares that He is not Jesus, nor holyghost or father god. Open your eyes and read the Q.u.r.'an. It abounds in Mercy. The first shown is the God forgave Adam and his wife. We do not have the original sin, a greater show of Mercy by God in I.s.lam.






@~Lady~:

You're speaking to someone who read it. Thread softly dear.

Ask Olabowale what my answer to him was when I read the first words.

Reading sometime maybe accompanied with lack of understanding or misunderstanding, based on many factors. The biggest is refusal to divest oneself from already held ideas. When you read Suratul Fatiha, you did not see a clear sign that it was not God that is talking and that it is M.u.h.a.mmad was the speaker.What you did not see based on your religiousity is that it was not clear to you that it is God that is the Speaker, because that chapter does not start with "God said," based on your Biblical expectation. Q.u.r.'an is not the Bible.

Funny we keep telling you guys the same thing.
Seems like Muhaaamad copied and pasted.

I am laughing because I am thinking which part of the bible is that? And then, what was copied and pasted are better in substance and journalistically than the original? This is interesting. Yet he did not take credit for it. Very interesting? I hope those egostical powerful people follow his lead.

Spoken like a true Roman and Jew.

But the jews never even believe up to this present day that jesus is even a prophet. The Romans killed him. Neither position would a mu.s.l.im take. If a m.u.s.l.im takes either position, he is out of I.s.lam. So your argument is baseless. You are passing apple up as orange here.

When will you understand that salvation is not of this earth. God's Kingdom is not of this earth.

Is it that your cumulative earthly work and blind faith in christianity that provides salvation? I used the blind faith because there is no rational for blind belief. But the Creator of this earth is the creator of the heavens. All of these places are his kingdom. He is the Owner. Or is there another owner? But the lord's prayer has a statement about 'thy kingdom comes' and 'on earth as in heaven!' Aren't you now presenting direct clear and present confusion from th Bible about what is written and what the Christians do? Well we will have a good conversation about this and others.[/quote]

@Davidylan: If all that the m/us.lim have in common with the Atheist is the denial of your human god, Jesus, then am very happy. Soon the atheist may take the step to become m.u.s.lim, considering he does not recognize the prophethood of M.u.h.ammad and Q.u.r'a.n, etc. In truth the christians have so much more in common with Atheist, when it concerns i.s.l.am. Afterall, they deny everything about the religion, the same way that the christians do.

The mere fact that you understand the bible does not mean that you are correct, specifically because your information source is wrong about god, all along.

Is it not true that a 5 year od child will be able to tell that Paul was not one of the apostles? Yet you call him apostle. Which number was he in the 12? And were the gospel wrters, mark, luke , John, matthew apostles of jesus? You are batting 0 for 5 already, yet what happened to the gospels of the primary apostles of jesus and his own gospel, which he preached about the places?

David and just because you disagree with something, based on your knowledge does not mean that the thing may not be right. Afterall you have limited knowledge and you can go beyond what you know. But you are being told here and now that God is One Entity, without any Divisibility to Him. He can handle all affairs in that state of Oneness. Your divisibility resulting to multiple heads personality entity is ridiculous. But of course you can't see it so. you have to justify a wild orchard idea of God, being all over the place in multitude to get noticed. Very wrong idea.

And your only premise of disagreement with Barnabas is the that he dislodged the humangod understanding that you have for Jesus, since you already accepted it from Paul. Remember there is no verse that points to jesus, by Jesus that he is anything other than a loving servant/slave prophet messenger of his Lord God. he even referred to himself as son of Man, (That itself is a clear proof), prophet and messenger and messiah to the house of Israel

For sure the truth is pure and simple. There is no multiple ways to express the truth. It is direct and straigh and one pure way. This is opposite of false, which can be explained with satisfaction in uncountable way. Each time the story changes.

@Backslider: ?

@Davidylan: And so were Mark, Luke, Matthew, etc of the four canonized Gospels. No wonder they were single named writers and always according to, without clarity. But the big daddy of them is Paul, who was not an " apostle," of Jesus, yet you struggle hard to make him one!

When do you stop bending the rule and don't make a rectangular juice box leave a ring stain on the piano. Be honest David.

@~Lady~

According to who? Muhaaamad?

According to God, when He said that they claimed that Jesus son of Mary is One of three. Just this alone is enough. Anyone who disagrees with God is dishonest.

@~Lady~:

Actually it is, check the Bible. No it's not a show and dear it has been proven many times. If you're looking for flashy cars and houses and all the money in the Bank then my dear you don't know about Christianity. If you're looking for something physical, then you don't know God.

I am not looking for either. But I am looking for that greater work that the later generations of mankind who called themselves "Christians," did, whereas Jesus did not do. Please tell me couples of them. If you can, considering the miracles that God performed through Jesus, then it is either that somebody has embellished as to the phrase "Greater work shall he do." Please name the greater works that they have done.

Um sorry dear, but he did. A church isn't a building, sorry, but it isn't. It wasn't a new religion.

Whats a church then? But when you go to church, say Sundays, you don't enter a Building? And Christianity was preJesus, you are saying?

I'm really trying to understand where you got that from. Who said Christ told anyone to abandon God and focuss on him. Dear he is God. Seek and you shall find.

Again, you claim that he is god. But the God Who creates never is subject to death. Only that is enough to dispute your statement. How can a God be praying to himself, stating the will of that prayed to God will be done rather than the will of the god that is praying? It is clear that the one praying is not the One he is praying to!

A prayer is a petition, when you asked your mother for something did she always hand you everything or did she use her wisdom to prevent you from harm?
Or better yet does your god hand you everything you ask for?
If he doesn't does that mean that he doesn't hear?
God is all knowing and in his infinite wisdom he knows we usually ask for more than we can chew. So he doesn't give it to us because he knows it will harm us or that we ask him to do something against his will. For example, I can pray that God kill my teacher that threatened me in class, but he won't because it's wrong for me to ask for the death of a person, he won't help me do wrong.

Now ofcourse there are Christians who don't pray correctly or don't know how to properly ask God for something. A young unmarried girl, instead of asking God to do his will in her life and grant her the husband that he created and molded particularly for her, she cries to God and askS God to help her keep her man, because he is oh so fine and he's good at heart, even though he's not good in action, and she feels she loves him, even though she knows not what love is. She should ask God for the strength to deal with her lonliness until her perfectly created man arrives for her, she should ask God to help her not fall into the sin of the flesh in her lonliness. She should ask God to bless her when he feels she is ready not when she feels she's ready, meanwhile she's still in school and struggling to make ends meet, but wants to plan for a wedding.

As I admire your level headedness, I take the position that Jesus prayer at the Garden of geshemane was not accepte by God. This is according to the Bible. Therefore the One Jesus petitioned is greater than Jesus. So in reality Jesus has a God who is his Lord. And that Lord God is different from him. That Lord God is greater than him. That lord God is the true Lord God.


So if Jesus can never force God to accept his prayer, as the example indicated, then no one among the Christian can force God to accept any prayer.

Then why are you guys using the Law of Moses, why don't you wipe them out and create your own? You can't justify Is'lam from a Jewish prophet. Infact when a new Prophet came he should have started anew, disregarding what the Lord had laid down. That means Is'lam should start anew and disregard all that was done with Christianity and Judaism.

Just because these Prophets/messengers were Jewish by blood has nothing to do with their religiousity and piety to God. Afterall, they were God's elects. The fact that we revere them shows that God is their Lord and Sender of these prophets. However not all of their laws are carried forward into I/sl/am. We don't pray like the Jews for example. We do not wail to and or at any wall. I can give you many things that the jews do that Musli/ms don't. That include dietary laws. Am sure we will discuss manyof these things and you see a new dynamics in Is/la,m.

My dear don't start giving me the story of how the Torah and the Bible are corrupt and the Qu'ran is the only truth. You still have to prove the Qu'ran to me. I want a different response than Muhaaamad said so or God said so, because it is not authenticated that God was the one speaking. The Qu'ran show inconsistencies with the rest of the Word of God. The only way it can hold any weight is if Muhaamad says that all that has been there since the beginning of time was a lie. Now that is very suspicious.

You have answeredyourown questions. You have argued for me. I concur with you, because if Mu/ha/mmad had come and said that everything that every prophets before him did were lies, it would be very suspecious. For one, he would be denying their prophethood, wouldn't he? CConsidering that even the legend of moses was known all the way to Egypt. You would have said that the M/uh/ammad had written off Pharaoh and all the phenomena that took place in Egypt. But what m/uha/mmad did was that he spoke about the preservation of the body of the Pharaoh that was drowned in the sea by God through the hand of Moses, during exodus. This should tell you something about the Q/ur'a/n. And who should I present except God and His messenger about the authenticity of Qu/r'an and Mu/hammad? Should i present Jesus, Moses , Ibrahim, Noah, Adam, Angel Gabreil? Tell me and I will be honest with you, if i can do it or not.


Finally, how do we know that Moses spoke to god at the burning bush and at other places? Afterall, it was Moses alone who went to these places. How do we know that Moses received the 2 tablets containing the commandments from god, and that he did not write them himself and claimed that they were from God? Afterall, he went on mount sinai, alone. The fact is that we believed based on some sets of ideals that we know about Moses before. The same applied to Jesus and same applied to Mu/ha/mmad. Afterall, Jesus displayed some good quality and character that set him apart, even as a youth. So did Mu/hammad. You need to read the life history of this noble soul. You and me will not be having this conversation in an adversarial way.

Like I said if I ask questions they will be deleted.

I do not know what to say here. I have no authority to effectuate anything at all. But am willing to dialogue, in any which way you wish. Finally I read the Jesus material to directed me to. Good assignment, but they did not have any Mu/s/lim opinion in there. And there was no Jewish opinion either. I just do not see how that convinces anyone.



Quote
Dishonesty is very common among this people

According to who? Muhaaamad?

You see why i left Olaadegbu alone, without paying him any mind?

Olowo tee: I think you and me can really have a matured conversation, together. You remind me of the S U people in the days: Think that they know it all, but in actuality they miss the mark, from the coreperspective.

I quite understand part of your Great Religious doctrine & stances, but the most important area where you guys got it all wrong is on the Sonship of Jesus Christ. You fail to recognise Him as the Son of God!!(And without which, you cannot have access to GOD nor be redeemed from sins!He is the Author and the Finisher of our Faith.)

All of your assumption of sonship is based on a virgin girl having a child without a husband. While this method of creation simple difficult for you to swallow, compare it to the creation of Adam. A creation of a creature that there was no prior example before it. But that creature, Adam was created fully grown. Capable of eating, and all that grown ups do.


He did not need any mother, yet his heart longed for a companion. God had designed his heart to want a mate. So God created from a piece of his body a mate, having the same nature, but a different genter. Exactly what makes his heart happy. And it is from these two countless people are made. I do not want to bore you with the fact that the two could be considered as brother and sister, and they could be considered as father and daughter as well, using today's understanding of relationship.


But what is very interesting is their children marrying from among their siblings. Bringing about children who are cousins. While the cousins marry from among their own pool of cousins. Today if father copulate with daughter, it is an abomination. And yet in some cousins still marry one another. But it is not impossible that if people were the ones remaining on earth, and they happened to be male and female and could still produce children, but a blood related, should they allow mankind to perish?


Considering them to be in their mid twenties for example? After the immediate shock, they should settle down to reality of the new condition; they are now the Adam and eve to populate the earth. God who is capable to bring about these many ways of creation of man, you are saying that in the creation of Jesus, He has to sleep with Mary, otherwise, you should know that what you have said about fathering Jesus is a complete fallacy. If God did not have sex with Mary, but just commanded the bringing about of the birth of Jesus in a fatherless process, then Jesus can not be son of God.


I will not even go to the point of telling you that God's prophets starting from Adam and all the way to John the baptist and his father Zachariah, none ever spoke about any real son of God to come. I have many people who call me father and some people that i call my children. The reality is that i am not their father nor any of them my child. Even Barack Obama calls Rev. Wright his spiritual father. But we know who is father was; a long gone Kenyan!

Moreso, you do give the Bible a literal interpretation, hence your shallow understanding of it. One thing you must comprehend is that God is a Spirit, and He expects us to worship Him in Truth and In Spirit.

Thank God Almighty who has allowed you to mention that he should be worshipped not i spirit alone. But Jesus, while on this earth never at one time claimed that he was the exclusive son of God; begotten or otherwise. I submit to you that it was those who wrote the Bible who are making unfounded claims about jesus and God.


It does not make sense, considering there were many prophets from Adam and before Jesus who did wonderful work, yet never claimed sonship. Moses instructed that a people touched a dead man with some part of a slaughtered cow. The man woke up after it, to tell them who killed him. With ordinary stick inMoses hand, a kingdom and her king reduced to a mere shadow of her former self. Moses spoke to God without any intermediary and often. I can go on and on. Ibrahim is called by God His personal friend. And through Noah mankind was destroyed and mankind was recostituted at the same time.


Through Adam, woman was formed so that the process of procreation is brought about to reality. And through Adam, the true nature of the devil was revealed. And it was Adam that God commanded the Angels to prostrate to, in obedience to Him, so that the Jinn nature could begin to unravel. None of these noble prophet told us that there will be a songod coming because God needed to provide a gruesome closing process for full blanket forgiveness. Yet He had created hellfire!

Jesus Christ is the Truth, through whom we get closer to God, He is our Mediator and our Redemption!

Bingo! We in Is/lam does not need a Mediator and any Redemption through anybody. Instead we have our direct relationship with God Almighty, who is capable at all times to forgive and reward.While you need Jesus I do not need anyone. I gusee my position as a slave is even stronger in good experience with my Master than you woho claims to be a child. You are like the child who is ever ignored, while I am the slave who is always cared for.

Finally, the truth about jesus started when he began his ministry. Thats when the truth about Moses ended. If any person who heard about Jesus during his ministry (all of them except the few that accepted and followed Jesus) refused to follow him, instead stuck with Moses without Jesus, then he had rejected Moses along with Jesus. In reality he did not follow either of them.


But Jesus truth as you understood it, ended up with the beginning of the prophethood/ministry/messengership of Mu/ha/mmad. For those who rejected him, in reality rejected Jesus as well. Jesus was just the truth, as a prophet for those short centuaries; less than six in all.

White the Spirit refers to the Holy SPirit.

Whats the spirit name? Let me help you out here. If I am in Lagos now, and I came to your neighborhood, I must ask for Olowo tee. Not just woman. So whats the spirit name? Obviously, it is not holy ghost. That will be disingenous. It is not Jesus or Emmanuel, becuase you have indicated that that is son and spirit is not seen. And they saw son. It is father because thats the Supreme (lol at you). You call the Supreme Yahweh like the Jews. You call the Supreme Jehovah and say alleluiyah like (who call Him that, the Jews also?


Am setting you up for a big fall in your gimmick). What the spirit name? Am sure if I yell holy spirit, he will not answer me. If I were in the time of jesus and i yell Jesus (Esau), he will turn to my direction to see who called him. But God should have been able to know who called him, not just trying to know who called him. Another proof that jesus can never be any part of One God, but instead His messenger. Whats holy ghost proper name? You don't know it.

Glory belong to you, Oh Supreme God. There is none like You. You created Angel Gabreil, who You called by many names. (Ya Mu/slim I went to suratul Kahf on her about how many were in the cave. The answer was in the Q/ur'a/n but not clear for those who are not paying attention as they read it).

Actually, When you look at it literally, it's not possible for someone to be the Father and Son at the same time,

We in /Islam/ do not see anything impossible for Him to do. But God said in the Qu/r'an that it does not befit the majesty of god to have a son. HHe said everythin comes to Him as a slave, servant, creation. Then in Chapter 112 of the Q/ur'a/n, He says that he is not begotten, nor begets any. He is unlike anything. Everything depends on Him and he does not depend on anything.

We see that you have acclamated God with animalistc/human values. Buty there are somethings that i have that god will never have: Children, parents wife. There are still that I do which do not fit the Quality of God; eating, weary, not knowing th future. Finally there are somethings which will happen to me that will never happen to God: death, getting old, crying, begging, etc. (I beg you know!).

but in the Spiritual realm and power, God chose to have it so, and who are we to question His Authority? His understanding is beyond mere human comprehension. Oftentimes in the Scriptures, God refered to Jesus as His only Begotten Son, Even at the Mount of Transfiguration, Jesus was exalted above all (Moses, Elijah etc).

Your talking about spiritual realm and power is in the same vain like the way the hindus talk about it. You have three gods, they have many more. both of you know that there is a single Supreme God. But you choose to have associates for Him. To call a mere prophet to his people, who were very good in medicine and magic (Kabala) at his time God is pure blasphemy. To call Angel Gabreil also God (as in holy spirit; remember i asked for his proper name? And I have also said you will never be able to provide me with one), is another example of subtle disbelief in the purest form.


Finally, show me in your man made "word of God," where God Almighty says to any prophet that He will come on earth or that he is 1 of 3 or that He divides Himself up at will. Please show me. You as i have said take the cake, trying hard to give me the impression of meekness. And at the sametime talking about begotten son! Where is begottn son and how is he begotten? To beget, mans sire. You sire by coupulation. That did not happen. Commandment of God, yes. So everyone is. I am a word of God. I would never ave happened if God did not give His word and command!


Mount of transformation, you said? He was exalted above you said? To be exalted, somebody must exalt that one who is exalted, in the exaltation. Lol. Who exalted Jesus there? Give us the story and your own twist. Oh, you can use the twist of your pastor, or the biblical scholars or combination of both, etc. It will not change the truth. Truth stands out from and against errors. Yet truth will definitely overcome and victorious.

@Pastor AIO: There is nothing called Christianity or christian, in substantive meaning. Its all a show. All talk and no backing. Its talking a good game. We know that when they say that Jesus raised the bar on them, telling them that they will even do bigger and greater things, we see that the reality is incongruent with that statement.

It is because Jesus could never have told them that they will be better than him. Just in the same way he did not tell them to satrt a new religion, which is a good reason he did not build a "Church." All that they put on Jesus are foreign and fallacies. There is no way that Jesus can instruct anyone to abandone God and concentrate on him. While he Jesus concentrated on God 100%! If they say Jesus prayed and the prayer was not answered, and he was killed, then you can imagine that they set themselves up as liars as they pray to Jesus or through Jesus and claiming all their prayers will be accepted , always 100%!

Finally, you see how they are dancing around the core of the topic; instead of responding to your post, they are shifting the goalpost, trying to give personal definition of what Christianity is. One of them is suggesting the haracteristics of Ruth. But Ruth is a Jew. She was not in Christian era. She was not in New Testament. Like Ester, Ruth is from the Jewish writing. Its like Psalm. Is Solomon from Christian era? No. You can never justify Christianity from anything prior to Jesus.

Dishonesty is very common among this people. In I/sla/m, we know no Mu/s/lim can be as good as Mu/ha/mmad. So you do not see any mu/s/lim trying to pray or make the things of worship more than him. Things are in measure. Davidylan thats for you to think about.

Olowo Tee: The eni abawi adage applies to you, directly. I already put my complete trust in One God: The Creator and Lord of all creations: heavens and all, the Angels, Jinns and mankind, paradise and hellfire, Adam and his wife; Eve, and their Children, etc.

Aburo, you know where am going with this, sisi? While you begin to acknowledge the lordship of God from Abraham, and his progenies, I have to give you what its known as throw back. God's Lordship did not begin from Abraham, the ancient iraqi man. He was neither a Jew nor Christian (ethnically or in religion). But a true believr in One God, the Mighty God Lord Himself, capable of doing all things. But will not do things that do not befit His Majesty; like eating, sleeping, wary, dieing, begging, being born or fathering by ancensor or decensor respectively.

I worship the God Lord that every prophet worship. I worship the One that Mu/ha/mmad, Jesus, Moses, Ibrahim, etc worshipped. He never dies nor can He be overtaken by any thing. Everything is a subject to Him. The devil can not tempt Him. He is beyond all things. He gives order to all things. So he knows when a Fig tree should bear fruit!

Olowo tee, I enjoy this dialogue. You fall into the pattern that allows me to express myself.

@Olowo tee: You provide a cleaver rebuttal. Except that it is conningly wrong. I responded to the failure of Olaadedegbu, directly. But I remember that you carry the water more than all of them, in a way that is subtle. Regardless of how you package a product, the quality of the product is not the packaging.

Finally, since has a Lord, whom he prayed to, and according to the bible refused to accept that prayer, I will pray to that Lord directly. And I will have my hope in Him, alone. I will not doubt Him in the time of my trials. I will not cry silently or aloud about any forsaken or even pray that I do not die. My condition of living will end with death. I pray that I am rewarded for my steadfastness. lol. Olowo tee, you are very funny. The haha type.

@Davidylan:

why shld you expect a blatant fraud to be in the bible?

Yor case is like that of John kerry in the '04 presidential season. First he supported the invasion of iraq, and then dis support it. A flipflpper kinda of a guy. No wonder he lost to Duubya.

If anything from Barnabas, who you claimed that everything he wrote was fraudulent had his material entered as part of your so called "words of God", the Bible, then by inference, it is safe to say "WHAT" about the Bible! The operative word here is "Fraud" David.

Then they took out what barnabas said out of the Bible, after sometime. Wow. Is his name still in the NT, per chance? The name of a fraud, that is. Not that he is being lambasted in there. But as a prominent member of the innercircle of your god, Jesus, the songod, the son of man, the prophet who did not have honor at anytime in his own home, the massiah, etc! Per chance you may reflect and know the whole truth, not the spindoctor truth.

I guess while you at it, think about trinity, etc and the power of God and what He will not do because it just does not befit His Majesty. Where is this igbo woman named Osisi?






[Quote]: Bull. Greek was a recognized language in biblical times as well as aramaic and hebrew. Not only does the bible indicate that, archeological evidence and history proves that greek was a language spoken and written down earlier than the 1st century.[/quote]Greek was not the mother tongue of Jesus the master himself. Greek was not what he spoke. Greek was not what he conducted his ministry in. He did not preach his "Gospel" about the places in Greek. His lovely mother was not El Greco. The prophets who were his contemporary did not conduct jewish services in the Temple in Greek. I can continue abou Greek for days, since Jesus did not walk the streets of Greek nation, but rather a hebrew or aramaic tongued villages, towns and cities. But am sure you must now realise your tunnel vision by now.

Well, of course you never saw an aramaic or hebrew Biblical manuscript that dates so far back to the time of Jesus. There lies the core of your mistakes.

Luke was a greek.

And Jesus said that he was not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel! And he further instructed his companions not to enter but only to the homes of the israelites. Further, he even refused to minster to the woman who was not from the tribal nations of israel. He called her in a likeness to dog. Hello, David. If Luke is greek, and a companion of jesus, then we have opposing dynamics in the Bible: Jesus not inviting but the children of Israel to his ministry which is directly opposing the greek Luke being primary in the core group. Unless that Luke was never part of the 12 apostles, or some greek guy took up the name and began to impassionate a Children of Israel.

Houston (David), we have a problem.

Now were Spanish and Italian 1st century languages?

I guess that when Rome was the ruler of the children of israel, which was before and expending past the "Crucifixion" of Jesus, they did have language. There language is Latin and probably a purer Italian. The Italians, a state that Rome was and still a capital of was and still known as speaker of Italian language. The Italian and Spaniard, etc are known as speakers of languages collectively known as latin. Now tell us, is your argument in agreement with known facts? I studied latin as a foreign language in high school. And it sounded like spanish, italian, portuguese, etc to me.

Those are important questions to ask rather than beating about the bush.

I have asked you to answer the important questions, as indicated above. please don't beat about the bush of W!

bull! Where did moha'mmad raise any dead?

Slow your roll, bro. It seems to me that you have agreed that Jesus was not unique among the Biblical prophets in raising the dead. So you turn your attention to Prophet Mu/ha/mmad. Mu/ha/mmad miracles from God Almigty were by far more than all the prophets, from Adam all the way to Jesus, combined. In Surah Nisaa (Chapter 4) verse 11, we read from its explanation that Jabir (ra), a companion in Madina was dying and already going and out of coma, the stage before complete and final removal of soul from the body.


However he had concerns about how his wealth should be distributed. Then the revelation to guide him about it came to the prophet. The prophet went hurriedly to jabir's place. When he got there, jabir was already in a coma. The prophet asked for water for ablustion. he made his ablution, and sprinkle some from hs blessed hand on him. jabir came back to life to receive the instruction of how to distribute his properties. He lived for some time afterwards.

The prophet even spoke to a tree stump which longed for his attention. In both of these cases people were witnesses. But even animals spoke to him, compalining about the illtreatments from their owners. A wolf spoke to a Jewish shephard about him, announcing his arrival in Madina. A fox confirmed his prophethood to another jewish trapper/hunter. A tree witnessed his prophethood to yet another Jew. And so was a stone. Whats your point, David? The immitable Alqu/r'an is enough without any other to confirm his highest level of Messengership. God Almighty Himself is enough as Guarantor.





[Quote];what a shame. The book of barnabas rather points to your own dishonesty.
First you said the bible was lost now u've suddenly found an authentic copy?[/quote]Read my statement, again. What you said here is not what i said. You can not infer it, unless you are reader of mind. What I argued about is that Barnabas material is not 100% correct, but it does not mean that it has nothing correct in it. I specifically stated that the idea that God is One, and that Jesus is no part of God is correct. If only this, am satisfied.

I bought many copies of the gospel of Barnabas many years ago and stop reading it when I read how he describes the day of resurrection. His sequence of the persons who resurrected first, and so on does disagree with Q/ur'an and hadith. I don't think with my elbow, you know.

there is no argument alhaji, when the judgement comes go and argue your case at the throne of fiery judgement.

But we are not arguing. I know that your judgement includes but probably not limited to rapture, whereby you go flying about the sky. I wonder what happened to Farwel, the great proponent of this concept? Oh, he is dead, just like what is expected of all human beings. And the adage you only truly die once, will apply to Jesus (as) later. But for me, i will be looking forward to my reward of the best of what good rewards consist of. I mean women, etc. I don't mean the kind of nossycheek who precipitiously assumed the unassumable. Since I do not drink, and the drink that will be available in the Paradise will not give a hangover, i will reserve mine fun till then. I want the best of everything. I do not have to be worshipping unend like what you will be doing in your heaven, if your heaven even exist. What level is that heaven, am sure you don't know, since we have 7 heavens even no

@Davidylan:

funny, its easy to spot fraudulent people.

The "letter of barnabas" and the "gospel of barnabas" are TWO CLEARLY DIFFERENT THINGS. Bros, ordinary google shld solve your hypocrisy.

Was either ever part of the NT, according to the referenced Britannica? Why was it there if Barnabas was never a good information source? And why was it removed later? Was the case similar to the NV printed carca 1952, without some part of the core christian statement/beliefs about Jesus, and was reinstated in NV printed in 1971?

Not only is the above false . . . you have woefully failed to explain to us whether Barnabas was speaking Spanish or Italian in the 1st century when he is alleged to have written this "gospel".

David, you should be ashamed of yourself, because you know better than that. You explained Jesus your god position by using documents in Greek. But you know fully well that Jesus' mother tongue was not Greek, but Aramaic or in a lesser sense Hebrew. For his nations consists of two bocks of nations; Judea having two nation tribes and Israel having 10 nation tribes.

So please how you begin to use Greek on us, as you are bullwinkled us with it and make the boundary of nations of israel all of a sudden be the nations of the world. You have a lot of explanation to do. Or maybe you and your buddies did a switcharoo forgetting that Jesus did not speak Greek.





@Uche2nna ;

Lol @ the mix-up between the gospel of barnabas and the letter of barnabas. I was like " r u kidding me"

The joke is on you, buddy. If barnabas was such a terrible man, what would his letters or anything be doing in your Bible in less than 700 years ago, and then by some hoodini flimflam, it is not there today?





@Davidylan;

Ok we've heard your rabble. But help me to solve this riddle . . . if Christ didnt die according to you, what happened to Him?
Did He achieve what was IMPOSSIBLE for Mohh'ahmad . . . i.e. ascending to heaven without seeing death?

While jesus only ascended over 2000 years ago, and has not come back now. But only in the future to die on this earth, Mu/ha/mmad ascended and descended in a part of a single night. What you need to know that every prophet/messenger had a mission. When the circle of responsibility, vis a vis the mission is completed, what occurs is termination as in death. And in the case of jesus, he will come back to renounce whatever fallacious title you have bestowed on him. Then he will complete is other duties and his circle. Death will result, without any doubt. And by the way was Jesus unique according to the Bible in being ascended to heaven, without death? Was Jesus unique in raising up dead, according to the Bible?

More rabble. Even the qu'ran says no such nonsense. Please quote it for us . . . instead of relying on the gospel of barnabas . . . remember you people told us that the true injil was lost . . . where did you find this portion?

This barnabas gospel and others you have rejected have simple pointed to the shurdy handwork of the "Bible Writers" in their easily dictectable dishonesty and corruption. Other clear indication of less than 100% stellar document are those letter from companions, and late comers like paul and company. Here you see that there is an opinion and not inspiration is at work. Example is the issue of covering of head/hair of women. Read your bible. According to all these after Jesus entries, it is obvious that Jesus did not finish anything, contrary to what you continue to say. So who is the liars; the writer of the bible of the whole christian body, throughout the generations.

Where is the beef, David? Aa re ki de she? lol.

If there is no need for the pastor to have the picture, as if he/she is showing to God while prayer is being said, you will know that God does not need to be here on earth to provide forgiveness. Afterall, He is capable to forgive us one by and or one and all, in any of the ways only He can. And no one else can.

And per chance, do the Jews by and large even pay attention to Paul? So before the mu/slims, the jews have the same exact opinion about Paul. They even disregard Jesus. Thats their fault. I mean the disregarding jesus as their one nations' collective massiah!

So mu/slims are not alone about Paul, duuh.

@Davidylan: And by your own definition, falsehood is anything that exposes the fallacy of mangod, ghostgod and fathergod. Whats ironic is that you roll 'em into 1 God. David, you could do better than that. You know better.

@~lady~: If I have to follow your logic through, then I would have to conclude that God also made religion fit the culture of the individuals. The same argument that the traditionalist are making. Every culture will have a religion that is domain to itself.

But you and i will discuss this point along with others, am sure. Is/lam has its own set of traditions. It is not exclusively arabic either. God commands in Surah Azhab that every believing woman should dress in a particular way when she is outside her home, a space where whe is more likely to encounter strangers. She is even warned to step gently so that she does not shake anything that will shake otherwise, hence calling attention to herself.

In Isl/am mus/lim women can relax her hair, and make it fanciful, for the mutual alluring and attraction of her husband and her own excitement. I/sla/m is not boring. Oh no. It is full of excitement, between a husband and wife.

@Imhotep: Masajid are places of congregation and other things to strengthening bonds between M/su/lims. We just don't pray in them alone. We teach and learn. We solve communual problems and other aspect of live and living in there. And yet people can pray at home, also.

What is the purpose of churches when Jesus had nothing resembling any in his time on earth? Is Church the same as jewish temple where jesus prayed, etc? I have not seen Jews perform service in any church or Christian in a Jewish temple, either. And it may surprise you, mu/sl/im can pray in even church or jewish temple, if it comes to it.

@Olaadegbu:

I was tempted to reply to your endless questions but it dawned on me that it will make no sense trying to describe what the colour red looks like to a man born blind. 2 Cor.4:3,4;

But could easily mention that it is in the family of what is known as primary colors. But different from Orange, yellow, etc. But your failure to even try speaks volume. Maybe because there is no real answer. But if this is how you see God and Jesus, then there is a big problem in your understanding. Except you just don't know it. Afterall, Babs787 is right.

@Olowo Tee: You are still pushing the unpushable concept? Jawo kuro ni apon tio yo. Damila kanoo. lol.