₦airaland Forum

davidnazee:
Jealous idiot go and find out how old Benin City is before u start spitting rubbish.

macof:
.
Wtf! This guy is a mad bastard sha. Yoruba largely Neanderthal? How does someone like this survive without any sense

Btw. Neanderthal are closer to Apes than Homo Sapiens are...so you insulting MitrikDenholm as an Ape will only backfire to you who claims to be "largely Neanderthal"

Jeez! Awon eniyan sa

0monnak0da:
I still disagree

0monnak0da:
I disagree

0monnak0da:
I am not sure what I am suppossed to do with this

well done for the effort but it does not change my view and be assured I have no interest in changing yours

0monnak0da:
So as far as this thread is concerned you have no evidence to offer me? Fine Keep your opinion and let me keep mine.OK?
The issue of Abomey is totally irrelevant and off point.

You have a view ,I have a different view. You cannot provide evidence.We have a stalement Oro pesi je.

Ire O

0monnak0da:
So as far as this thread is concerned you have no evidence to offer me? Fine Keep your opinion and let me keep mine.OK?
The issue of Abomey is totally irrelevant and off point.

You have a view ,I have a different view. You cannot provide evidence.We have a stalement Oro pesi je.

Ire O

0monnak0da:
So as far as this thread is concerned you have no evidence to offer me? Fine Keep your opinion and let me keep mine.OK?
The issue of Abomey is totally irrelevant and off point.

You have a view ,I have a different view. You cannot provide evidence.We have a stalement Oro pesi je.

Ire O

Yyeske:
Lol, no problem as I don clip your wings today, Igbo means people in the language.

Igboeze in Enugu state means the people are the kings or the people and their king. Close to Ohaneze in meaning.

Igboukwu in Anambra means great people. We have Oraukwu and Obodoukwu, same meaning.

Igbouzo(Igbuzo or current spelling Ibusa)in Delta means the people first.

Obigbo(Oyibgo)in Rivers means the people's hearth(the Igbo hearth is sort of different from the oyibo type).

Names like Igbo, Igbokwe, Igboanugo etc all have something to do with people.


Now give me the meaning of Yoruba in Yoruba language

0monnak0da:
Do you have evidence. I am willing to change my opinion if I see evidence? We live and learn all the time

0monnak0da:
The more common description in Benin used to be Nago or Anago or Ana probably it has changed with the influence of Nigeria.

These terms were used to describe now Yoruba peoples by the Spanish and Portuguese in their earlier records centuries ago

It is important to emphasize the difference between language and identity

Austrians ,Swiss,Italy Lichtenstein and Luxembourg is home to Deutsch speakers but they do not identify as German just as not all speakers of Arabic are not Arabs

Generally the Yoruba language was known as Anago

prolog2:
So your evidence is a fairytale ?
I suppose you are an adult, therefor you should be able to differentiate fairytale from reality.
oduduwa or oduua (or what ever name the yoruba want to call it today) is just as real as father christmass.
In europe children discover by themselves that father christmass is not real. It seems yoruba adults still believe in father christmass.
Let me help you with logics because it seems you lack that completely: claims are not evidence !
You can't prove an unsubstantiated claim with an other unsubstantiated claim.
If we are talking about history, then you need to bring out texts which were written in the period of time being studied.
You don't just make up an other story and call it proof ! Have you ever been to school ?

Y0ruba:
It is not a case of Yoruba VS Igbo or Igbo VS Yoruba, what is at hand is a problem of Yoruba & Hausa VS Igbo.

The early political and military History of Nigeria shows the Igbo have a superiority complex running concurrently with an almost genetic clannish behaviour.

Throughout the early History of Nigeria till now, the Igbos have been known to have never worked within the bounds of ‘partnership’ or respect ‘equality in differences’.

The Igbo wants to hijack your partnership with them and put himself or herself in charge and also discard the equality in differences and wanting things to go his/her way only.

Several important factors in Nigerian history indicate these characteristics of the Igbo:

- The early nationalist movements in Nigeria. Specifically how they brought tribalism into NYM which stalled the advancement of NYM during the period.

- The constitutional conferences before independence which Igbos on several fronts made about themselves rather than let each bloc put in what they preferred for their own region and peoples.

- The development of political parties in Nigeria. NCNC was founded by a Yoruba man. The Igbo man Azikiwe took over, hijacked the party & turned it into an Igbo party. Prior to this, the Igbo formed Igbo union with chapters all over Nigeria which they collapsed into NCNC when Zik took over. This marked start of tribal politics in Nigeria. Yoruba moved out & Awolowo in reaction formed Egbe Omo Oduduwa & eventually, AG.

- The forming of governments at Federal level. Igbo colluded with the North but tried to hijack the government from the North employing several methods. For example with their kin in government they began to flood out en masse to the North especially where they began appointing themselves into the civil service. They disrespected the North and threatened the isolation policy of the Northeen government. This influenced Ahmadu Bello’s recorded speech in an interview. In the West, they did the same thing by appointing themselves above well qualified Westerners, into positions which prompted Sir Ladoke Akintola’s speech that woke all Yoruba sons and daughters at the time to take back their region.

- The Igbo in the constitutional conferences had always wanted Unitary system of government. Their region was backwards and they needed to be able to flood other regions ‘legitimately’ & get a soft landing with jobs and career advancements. They realized they could not do this with the regional government of the day and opted for the 1966 coup where none of their own kin in government was scratched let alone killed but murdered every other person from other regions. This was the point where Igbo ruined their relationship & completely damaged the trust other regions had for them.

- After the coup, the Igbo in the North made music spiting the North, which was publicly played; made posters and printed shirts to taunt the North which were publicly displayed. Of course, they crrated chants mocking how Tafa Balewa was murdered.

- The Igbo had the chance to redeem their image by allowing a more senior army officer of Borno stock to take over but the Igbos in the democratic government of 1966 handed over to Aguiyi Ironsi, an Igbo man. Then came Ironsi who was expected to hand out justice to the coupist, of course, the Igbo clannishness kicked in and he refused. This soured the North and East relationship forever. This also started protection of indicted kinfolks in Nigerian public space today.

- The Igbo who were proponents of Unitary system since pre-independence suddenly had a problem with it. Igbo who previously didn’t have a problem with subverting military ranking system for Ironsi to head the government suddenly had a problem with the same method which produced Gowon. Suddenly the Igbo wanted regionalism & for military ranking to be stuck to in 1967 simply because they were not the one in power and the Unitary was not to their favour.

- In the MKO debacle of 1993. Of course records abound as to how Igbo supported the MKO’s loss of his substantive position as the president elect. Of course, they even had million man march in support of Abacha when he took over. In fact, when Yoruba were locked in a struggle with Abacha/North, the Igbo took sides with Abacha. This made the relationship and trust the Yoruba had with Igbo became sour coupled with the Igbo ills towards Yoruba in the 1960s

- Fastfoward to when Yaradua passed. Goodluck Jonathan could not take up his mandate as the President. He was not only blocked by the North who played hide & seek with Yaradua’s status, the North even played cards towards a re-interpretation of the constitution to keep Jonathan away from assuming the office he deserved. Jonathan’s small Ijaw group went mute, the Igbo as usual all stayed away. Yoruba championed protests that got the attention of the international community & pressured the North into giving into letting Jonathan take up the office due to him - the Igbo did not say a word. The North fell back from Yoruba’s pressure and Jonathan got in. In 2011, the Yoruba gave Jonathan much more votes than Igbos did but of course their clannishness & disrespect for equality kicked in so much that they hijacked the PDP, hijacked Goodluck’s government and made it a Igbo government so much that the one would conclude it was an ‘Igbo Presidency’.

There are more pointers but I’ll leave it at this.

The above goes to show the Igbo are a risky group to work with. It is not just the West that does not want to work with them, the North also avoids them like a plague. In fact, the Igbo kin in the South South stay away from them politically. Inviting these people into a partnership is like opening the door to a swarm of locust, they will eat at everything in their way without respect for the other side.

These facts & characteristic traits of the Igbo from pre-independence abound till this moment.

- They still flood every region trying to dominate by demanding to be voted into offices or for appointments while strictly preventing such in the region.

- They wanted Lagos in the 50s, they wanted Lagos in the Biafra war & still want to have Lagos in 21st century.

- They are still clannish. Look at Goodluck Jonathan’s government.

- They are still sneaky. During Jonathan’s presidency, they loved Nigeria. In fact, a video of Nnamdi Kanu, the leader of the seccessionist group surfaced on the internet where he was super pro-Nigeria. All of a sudden, they no longer want Nigeria because they’re not in power.

And it goes on & on but I’ll leave it alone.

They can not be worked with, QED.

prolog2:
I don't give rat's ass of whom you are quoting. Someone being Edo doesn't imply the person is saying the truth, nor does it imply that I automatically subscribe to what he says. I asked for proof ! simple, prove what you claim !
If you can't do that then kindly shut the hell up rather than trying some emotional blackmail.

prolog2:
Prove this
I am seek and tired of you yoruba. You make a lot of claims and never prove any single claim.
Also show me proof that any yoruba was bearing the title Oba in precolonial days.
We all know the Edo King was already bearing the title the first time the europeans met him.
And also prove that Edo art comes from yoruba (even the claim sounds totally illogical):
-Show me the art which was decorating the ooni f ife's palace when the british arrived.
-Also show me the art which was decorating the alafin of oyo's palace when the british arrived.
And also show me pictures of their palaces when the british arrived.
You yoruba are all talk and no substance.
You are born liars and ironically you call "liar" those who don't fall for your lies.

Y0ruba:
X

Yoruba is only related to the Bini’s Oba lineage and that lineage has been heavily diluted by inter-marriage within Edo peoples.

Yoruba is in no way related to Edo people, only the king is our relative and one of Kings who was supposedly our relatives came out with a book and several statements to lacerate the thin relations we share with him/his lineage, he has not only created a dichotomy but further increased its decibel.

Yoruba had better believe what the Oba put out has festered and eaten into the minds of his relatives and will be the trend in the royal lineage for generations to come. Let us accept Oba Bini & Yoruba are done.

The Oba has embraced an Edo ancestry & identity. What we can do is to respect it and leave him be. Let them continue in theor theory while Yoruba continue on with ours.

We should speak on them less. The more we mention them, the more they feel a sense of importance. In fact, the throne of Bini should be scratched off the list of Yoruba original thrones. Owa Ilesa & Alaafin will need to stop seeing Benin as the throne of their brother. Once we forget them, they will know they are not wanted or craved in anyway.

Yoruba will continue to trudge on as a bloc in the Nigerian, African & Global political & economic system as a nation with reach in Togo, Dahomey & Americas as one body & in the event of Nigeria’s dissolution, Yoruba will progress still.

It will be interesting to see how Bini/Edo will forge on in securing its interests & furthering its political & economic whatever in Nigeria with such a small population. They have self relegated to ‘minority’ where they drag relevance with Ijaw & minority groups in the South & their future in the post dissolved Nigeria will be a thing worth seeing too .

We need to leave them alone, their artworks will forever haunt them and it would be nice to see how they intend on revising history around the art pieces to have another origin asides Ife or how they intend to flip their arts to have been the source of Ife art.

Brother Olu317, abeg e wa wo thread yi.

Y0ruba:
Oh, interesting.

Agbedegbede in his Oriki was regarded as ‘Omo Luusi, Omo Debooye’.

Debooye was a female, the only child of Giesi who wore the Ade-Are & performed the duties of the Ooni in the stead of her father who was old and frail.

Debooye has her compound at Ife, she had kids with Agbedegbe being one of them. I am tempted to think Luusi was the father of Agbedegbede.

How else could he have been regarded as Omo Luusi & Omo Debooye.

It is a postulation with a high possibility of being true but I will raise if when I get home next week & get back to you on it on whatever I find.

Y0ruba:
Also, I may have just stumbled on a theory explaining the connection between Luusi, Giesi and Agbedegbede.

From the first picture attached it says, ‘Omo Luusi, Omo Debooye’.

* Debooye was Giesi’s only child, a female. Debooye gave birth to Agbedegbede and I am guessing Luusi was Debooye’s husband and Agbedegbede’s father.

And this is why Agbedegbede compound and attached conpounds have ‘Omo Luusi, Omo Debooye’ included in their Oriki.

See the second picture attached.

I will be deleting them soon, so I hope you are able to see them quickly before I take them off.

Y0ruba:
Also, I may have just stumbled on a theory explaining the connection between Luusi, Giesi and Agbedegbede.

From the first picture attached it says, ‘Omo Luusi, Omo Debooye’.

* Debooye was Giesi’s only child, a female. Debooye gave birth to Agbedegbede and I am guessing Luusi was Debooye’s husband and Agbedegbede’s father.

And this is why Agbedegbede compound and attached conpounds have ‘Omo Luusi, Omo Debooye’ included in their Oriki.

See the second picture attached.

I will be deleting them soon, so I hope you are able to see them quickly before I take them off.

Y0ruba:
1. Ogun never had any exploit in Ife, despite being known in every other place as a brash blood thirsty warrior. Rather, his exploits were after he had left Ife. In Ife he was a blacksmith, a private one at that with his tools & spot upon which he worked still at Ife, up & running by other black smiths. There are discrepancies with the Oonis’ list available to the public but it is intentional & I won’t drag that into our discussion.

2. A mistake on my part. I should add that Oyo was founded by one of Oranmiyan’s maternal brothers called Oloyo. Oranmiyan only went there to stabilize things, the same thing he did in Bini earlier.

3. Obalufon is related to Olufon. Olufon was Obatala’s first son. Obalufon was part of Obatala/Obamakin’s group, he was not related to Oduduwa or Oranmiyan. Lajemisin tried to entrench himself and his line into Ife thone by killing & banishing many people/houses that had rights to the throne. He tried but after he passed, things became business as usual until the recent century.

Cheers, baba.

P.S:

- the line tagged red is to show connection to Obalufon.

- the lines tagged green are parts of Obatala’s Oriki.

Y0ruba:
1. No sir, Ogun did not reign. He had not even begun the rituals to become an Ooni. He was only the ‘elect’ because most princes had and he was the only warrior like one left of Oduduwa’s offsprings in Ife. He was bombarded on all sides and never did the ritual nor entered Oduduwa’s palace at Idio. He was busted at his house and driven off.

2. Actually, Oranmiyan was away at Oko (Osile Egba) Oyo and later Bini for a long time. I would like to think his father sanctioned his travels to Oko & Oyo but his travels to Bini was sanctioned by Obalufon Ogbogbodinrin who was on the throne while Oranmiyan was away and his son Obalufon ll took over by the time Oranmiyan returned. It was a long time span, baba. Oranmiyan took over and did not reign for long, he died shortly after.

3. After Oranmiyan passed. Power went back to Obalufon ll and ever since, power rotated between Oduduwa’s line and Obamakin/Obatala’s line. Overtime, during Aderemi’s time, Ooniship became limited to four houses of Oranmiyan’s line. Things were not always that way, even after Lajemisin. There were a lot of things I typed in this paragraph but had to delete them. They are in-house stuff that I have to treat as such and can not put in public.

Y0ruba:
1. No sir, Ogun did not reign. He had not even begun the rituals to become an Ooni. He was only the ‘elect’ because most princes had and he was the only warrior like one left of Oduduwa’s offsprings in Ife. He was bombarded on all sides and never did the ritual nor entered Oduduwa’s palace at Idio. He was busted at his house and driven off.

2. Actually, Oranmiyan was away at Oko (Osile Egba) Oyo and later Bini for a long time. I would like to think his father sanctioned his travels to Oko & Oyo but his travels to Bini was sanctioned by Obalufon Ogbogbodinrin who was on the throne while Oranmiyan was away and his son Obalufon ll took over by the time Oranmiyan returned. It was a long time span, baba. Oranmiyan took over and did not reign for long, he died shortly after.

3. After Oranmiyan passed. Power went back to Obalufon ll and ever since, power rotated between Oduduwa’s line and Obamakin/Obatala’s line. Overtime, during Aderemi’s time, Ooniship became limited to four houses of Oranmiyan’s line. Things were not always that way, even after Lajemisin. There were a lot of things I typed in this paragraph but had to delete them. They are in-house stuff that I have to treat as such and can not put in public.

Y0ruba:
1. Actually, sir, during Derin’s time, Orayigba Ojaja l was the Ooni & the war was on. As at the time of Derin’s Ooni elect period the British had already waded in the war and battles were put on stopped with Fabunmi & his Ekiti team on ground; Ibadan & their team on ground. The period of Derin in-absentia (his death) was when peace was fully brokered, treaties were signed & war camps were vacated.

2. Yes sir, same here. The oriki go hard o, person go need travel to your town to get such information properly I believe.

3. No shakes, baba.

4. My contextual usage was not that Ajamaiye had any economic gain or any intended gain to have fought in the war. My usage was in the perspective of Ibadan warriors like Akintola who fought on the Modakeke’s side or Fabunmi who fought on Ife’s side or Orayigba Ojaja who fought on Latosa’s army at Egba wars. He fought as a brave man to preserve and protect what he believed in, he was only a ‘mercenary’ because he had to leave his domain to come to Ife and left again after the war was done.

Blessings, baba.

Y0ruba:
Did she propound the theory in ‘Art and Risk in Ancient Yoruba: Ife History, Power, and Identity, c. 1300‘? If yes, I have read and used the book for my research and didn’t find such in it. Can you refer me to the page or cite what book/article she said this in so I can read?

Ogun was an Ooni elect but was an unwanted candidate who was usurped by Osangangan Obamakin. Ogun was usurped; his house was seized and turned into the present day Ooni’s palace (because Obamakin & his people could not move into Oduduwa’s palace); and was banished from Ife. He was on his way out of Ife through Iwara road when Obawara sympathised with him and invited him in; Ogun’s marriage to or love affair with the man’s daughter gave birth to the Osogun compound in Ife. He left and there and continued on, going from place to place. This is why Osogun is the only one in Yoruba land who stands when greeting an Ooni; Osoguns do not go to the palace but when they do, it is for a short while as they hurry out or they are hastened to leave - it was their father’s house that has been seized, Ife sees the presence of the Osogun there as a likely threat and a possible mutuny. This is also why the Ooni wear the ade-are to Oke-Mogun to ‘greet’ Ogun at the first place he ran to when he was usurped.

The Bini people may have met any of the three: Obamakin, Obalufon l or Obalufon II. They definiely did not meet Ogun, like Derin, he was chosen but did not ‘become’ an Ooni.

As for all Ooni’s oriki having Ogun & Oke rile, that is a wrong guess again. We have a lot of records on Ife at the house including one compiling the Oriki of all the compounds in Ife. Of course that of the Royal Houses are grouped separately from others that were grouped too and ‘Ogun’ and ‘Omo Oke rile’ does not cut across board.

Y0ruba:
1. So Ajamaiye participated in the Ife-Modakeke war. Baba, I stated this prior but you refuted it.

2. You’re stretching your luck here, sir. I am of Giesi bloodline and a little information on him can be gleaned from the internet like some of your statement up there about his ancestry and ascendance to the throne which are correct. Outside of that, you should not try to guess how Ife’s social system works from the outside. In Ife, ruling houses may acknowledge they are of the same source but their Orikis are entirely different. Ife has very many family compounds but ancient Oriki is employed to group them. If Lusi has no Oriki connecting him to Lafogido then he is not of Lafogido stock, I am sorry. If you went to Ife today and visited the agbo ile Lafogido recounting your connection to them, they will ask you to recite your Oriki and I promise you, they will direct you to any of the houses of Giesi, Debooye, Ologbenla, Laroka. These four houses share similar Oriki and the same source, just one line of their Oriki connects them with Ogboru house in Ilare. Oriki in Ife is used to tell history and find ancestry, it is just not for recitations alone. It is part of the marking tool for their social system.

3. Maybe in your place that is the case. In Ife, all descendants of Royal house have no Orisa they are tied to - their only Orisa is primarily Orisa Lajemisin at Ilode and Oranmiyan at Eredunmi. Ogun is the business of ile Osogun house at Iwara. Ooni’s participation in Ogun festival is another story entirely and does not serve as an indicator for ruling houses worshipping Ogun.

4. I do not know all these things you have said about Derin. He may have done them or people may have concocted them to give him an air of mysticism. Either ways, he was just an exception and not th rule of Oonis being powerful prior to ascending the throne.

5. You can as well ask any Ifa priest within your reach if Eji Ogbe is requisite in selecting an Ooni. Even at Ooni’s odun Ifa, 16 Babalawo Olodu must divinate at the palace and the odu that must ‘ro wa’ has to be Eji Ogbe. This is where your reference to Ori comes in - if Ori has chosen it, it will be revealed to us by Ifa. You may as well ask the Babalawo to recite the Odu for you to hear where it is stated there in.

6. You just re-affirmed what I said in my initial post that Ajamaiye was a 19th century personage who was a warrior that served as a ‘mercenary’ in the Ekiti Parapo wars. Ekiti Parapo war was Oyo elements on the one hand and Ijesa/Ekiti/Ife elements on the other hand. The war was fought on different fronts with Ife being one of those fronts - Fabunmi was sent to Ife to fight along side Ife army while certain Ibadan soldiers were sent to fight along side Modakeke. I understand your key grouse with my position is that I said Luusi’s connection to Ife was Ajamaiye fighting alongside Orayigba Ojaja 1 in the Modakeke war but your confirmation of Ajamaiye dying in 1910 confirms the possibility of this latter theory - because Ojaja 1 reignd around this time and Fabunmi from Ekiti was in Ife around this time and Ajamaiye a renowned warrior from Ekiti also participated in this war.

I agree that myself, blog pages and journal articles can not know your ancestral background history more than you do. Keep in mind this analogy is applicable to me as well, in that you can not know my background history more than I do as well.

Blessings, have a restful weekend sir.

Y0ruba:
1. So Ajamaiye participated in the Ife-Modakeke war. Baba, I stated this prior but you refuted it.

2. You’re stretching your luck here, sir. I am of Giesi bloodline and a little information on him can be gleaned from the internet like some of your statement up there about his ancestry and ascendance to the throne which are correct. Outside of that, you should not try to guess how Ife’s social system works from the outside. In Ife, ruling houses may acknowledge they are of the same source but their Orikis are entirely different. Ife has very many family compounds but ancient Oriki is employed to group them. If Lusi has no Oriki connecting him to Lafogido then he is not of Lafogido stock, I am sorry. If you went to Ife today and visited the agbo ile Lafogido recounting your connection to them, they will ask you to recite your Oriki and I promise you, they will direct you to any of the houses of Giesi, Debooye, Ologbenla, Laroka. These four houses share similar Oriki and the same source, just one line of their Oriki connects them with Ogboru house in Ilare. Oriki in Ife is used to tell history and find ancestry, it is just not for recitations alone. It is part of the marking tool for their social system.

3. Maybe in your place that is the case. In Ife, all descendants of Royal house have no Orisa they are tied to - their only Orisa is primarily Orisa Lajemisin at Ilode and Oranmiyan at Eredunmi. Ogun is the business of ile Osogun house at Iwara. Ooni’s participation in Ogun festival is another story entirely and does not serve as an indicator for ruling houses worshipping Ogun.

4. I do not know all these things you have said about Derin. He may have done them or people may have concocted them to give him an air of mysticism. Either ways, he was just an exception and not th rule of Oonis being powerful prior to ascending the throne.

5. You can as well ask any Ifa priest within your reach if Eji Ogbe is requisite in selecting an Ooni. Even at Ooni’s odun Ifa, 16 Babalawo Olodu must divinate at the palace and the odu that must ‘ro wa’ has to be Eji Ogbe. This is where your reference to Ori comes in - if Ori has chosen it, it will be revealed to us by Ifa. You may as well ask the Babalawo to recite the Odu for you to hear where it is stated there in.

6. You just re-affirmed what I said in my initial post that Ajamaiye was a 19th century personage who was a warrior that served as a ‘mercenary’ in the Ekiti Parapo wars. Ekiti Parapo war was Oyo elements on the one hand and Ijesa/Ekiti/Ife elements on the other hand. The war was fought on different fronts with Ife being one of those fronts - Fabunmi was sent to Ife to fight along side Ife army while certain Ibadan soldiers were sent to fight along side Modakeke. I understand your key grouse with my position is that I said Luusi’s connection to Ife was Ajamaiye fighting alongside Orayigba Ojaja 1 in the Modakeke war but your confirmation of Ajamaiye dying in 1910 confirms the possibility of this latter theory - because Ojaja 1 reignd around this time and Fabunmi from Ekiti was in Ife around this time and Ajamaiye a renowned warrior from Ekiti also participated in this war.

I agree that myself, blog pages and journal articles can not know your ancestral background history more than you do. Keep in mind this analogy is applicable to me as well, in that you can not know my background history more than I do as well.

Blessings, have a restful weekend sir.

Y0ruba:
It would be nice to learn about what Blair lied about and why you consider it to be a lie.

Y0ruba:
Your date is for the Egba settlement in Abeokuta.

Egba had long existed before then and the sub-group is far older than the dating you gave it.

You should probably take sometime to explore Egba history.

Y0ruba:
1. What war broke out for Ife’s throne’s survival that Ajamaiye fought for?

2. If Luusi was Lafogido’s son, how come he is not mentioned in Lafogido’s oriki but that of Giesi, Ogboru’s grandson?

3. Oranmiyan’s descendants in Ife worship Oranmiyan & Lajemisin, while those in Oyo worship Oranmiyan. In Ife, only Osogun, Babalawos & Agbedes worship Ogun.

4. I don’t know if Derin was extra ordinary. If he was, he was an exception and not the rule. He was an Ooni-elect anyway and did not ascend the throne nor did he wear the ade-are before he passed on. Ife selected him because Modakeke was breathing down our neck, nothing else.

5. Wealth is relative but it is not secondary. It is one of the factors considered for a person to vie at all. As for the ori lo moun to yan, this is where Odu Ifa comes in during itefa. If a person fits the requirements of royal birth and wealth, but the odu itefa during initiation is not Eji Ogbe, they will not be considered.

Finally, the sources I provided in my previous post to you - the blog page and the published journal article says put Ajamaiye at 19th century but you have flung him far into the pre-historic era. I won’t debate it, it is your home town and your history, I will respect what you have said and wait till I stumble on further sources from your part of the world to further approve your stand or approve the 19th century timeline for Ajamaiye in the texts.

Ire o!