₦airaland Forum

DevdanSanguine:
Lol! I meant there is no similarity between this and the Persian sculpture you tried to use to support your claim.

Saying sculptural knowledge was alien to Africans is quietly Frank disturbing and completely false. Nok, Akan, waga, mambilla, Mande are some of the many African cultures with sculptures. The akans have a particularly crafty one.

First you were speaking in specifics, now you're speaking in general terms. No. I will not accept this.

You made some claims exclusive to yorubas but you're yet to show men one reliable source to back up any of those claims. Obviously I have tried Google but no reliable or sane person is giving the preposterous theories you keep giving me. I mean seriously, you can't cite one reliable source?

Learn to be honest. Simple as ABC . If you claim there is no similarity in both sculpture work ,then it is obvious you remained a bias person. Secondly, I have never seen in all my posts that i perpetually declared that other tribes didn't had sculpture works but stated that Yoruba sculpture work was incomparable with any within sub sahara Africa because the production were of alloy/copper and were far better and compared with Ancient Rome,Greek etc.These were assertion of archeologists and historians from the period Professor Leo Frobenius discovered the heads dug out in ILE IFE .Thirdly, I expect you that claim Yoruba didn't have connection with outside West Africa need provide us all reading this with evidence because I have never seen or read about tribe that use Ba/Uba/Abba as Father apart from Yoruba nor have i seen any tribe that said their own God created the first word known as Ela (Ela ro wa). In fact the El in Yoruba El-edumare . All the mentioned are semitic words . Fourthly, if you need direction to getting information then bring down your ego and be humble enough without having bias mind like some people do on here who have no known research carried out but condemned others that have spent their time, resources and risk involved. If you truly want information,learn how get it .

DevdanSanguine:
Yes its obviously Yoruba but the one on the right which you tried to compare clearly isn't and shares no similarity whatsoever with it. Nok may not resemble that of the people of mentioned but it certainly resembles that of Yorubas and I mentioned it because i feel you're more sensible when comparing those two than the non African ones you claim.

Again the only citation I could find for such study by this man says the exact opposite of what you claim. If you have the other which supports your claim please let me know so I can find it.

Okay. So because it's most studied makes it more unique or more non African than other cultures? Are you even serious?

Yes. I would love to read such books even though I am not Yoruba but I'd love to be proven wrong in the sense that I can't believe someone hates who he is so much that he would believe such unfounded jargons to deny it. So please make such recommendations so I can read about these great exploits, especially those that support your claims.

All I am asking for is a reliable citation.

These didnt share similarities? I am sure you didn't see it very clearly earlier but the two in comparison ,the choice is yours if you insist on your assertion. Again, this sculptural work , was alien to West Africa, until Yoruba did such. How did yoruba people mastered this Sculptural work and science ? In West Africa? My answer is NO because of old had clothing patterned like Northern Africa etc. Secondly, You seem to forget that the world of humanity descended from same stock and quest to find out the past led to account narrated by some people during the ancient times. Either I am a proud Yoruba man is another thing entirely because what is being inferred here are basically people's historical account and nothing to do with being Yoruba or not as regard what you asked earlier . Have you any knowledge the name Yoruba were called in the past? I guess you want to have knowledge about it too. Do not get too emotional about West Africa because there has been no time that West Africa had a human fossil that is older than East Africa. And what does that imply? It means the East Africa is older than West Africa . And migration was the reason. If indeed you want sources about Yoruba history which is centered on Odua , then you can Google Yoruba history .This is because, I had given you the names and clue about ancient world powers at different times. You can start from it .

DevdanSanguine:
LMAO you do know there are middleasterners and even Greeks and europeans with curly hair yes? You do know sculpture isn't exclusive to one culture yes? Heck the funny thing is that there is no similarity whatsoever between these sculptures.

The yoruba culture is unlike....

The Igbos will claim the same. So will other southern ethnicities.

Let's even assume that these sculptures show African features (they don't). What's your proof that these are yorubas and not Ethiopians or any other ethnic group closer to that region and with a more likely placement there?

Mind you, in the period where Islam came and the period you claim lamurudu or whoever escaped with his people from there I repeat there were no such established black clans in Mecca. The only blacks there were mostly slaves and the very few who had been freed. So how on earth will get even escape let alone have a large cult following, a black man in the days of jahiliyya. I'm a Muslim who is also well knowledgeable about the history of this age and has read various Islamic scripts that confirm what I'm saying. I can say without a doubt that everything you're saying is absolute rubbish.

And like I keep saying, if indeed there was such a migration or some admixtures there will at least be 0.1 traces on non African blood in your DNA. But that's not the case, not only do you not have that you don't have any other admixture other than subsaharan African. Your language is West African. Why are you reaching so hard.

Those sculptures are more similar to nok sculptures BTW so I reckon you had better seek connections with those.

it is obvious, you didnt read. First of all, This sculpture below was Yoruba .If you doubt, go verify . Nok culture didn't look as prototype Roman,Greek,Middle Eastern people. I mentioned Neanderthal research done in the past that was claimed to be advanced man in which Yoruba were grouped as having such admixture. And yes, Yoruba are presently domicile in West Africa but Yoruba ancestors and culture is the most studied. Go and read books about Yorubas if you want to have more knowledge about their great exploit in the past.

DevdanSanguine:
But the only black people in Mecca during this age were slaves and the only idol worshippers With such will were Arabs. I don't get it...

Research via excavation proved this assertion wrong. Below is three comparable sculptures of a Yoruba person whom is from your extreme left and the other ones were Asia people . The excavation of the Persian head was done around Babylonian ,which is in present day Iraq . While, the last head was shown in Egypt's museum. And I am sure, these two heads were not Caucasians nor Arabs but a mixed Negro Race(Half cast). The sculpture of yoruba is incomparable with any tribes in Subsahara Africa ,which drew the attention of the researcher of western world historians. Mind you, no one can be carved out into sculpture if such is not a wealthy / Noble person. And Islam was born after five(5) hundreds years of Christianity existence. So,Cush/Nubians/Egyptians at one time had different slaves of all people in Egypt days as superpower of the world.

DevdanSanguine:
I'm sorry but how does this relate to the issue at hand? Like I said earlier can you direct me to any such sources where I can get clear information on this link you speak of.

I notice you haven't t replied my earlier post, if you are offended by my bluntness then I apologise it is not my intention. But if truly you're this invested in your very thin theory you'd disregard an intellectual argument about facts then I feel you intentionally want to live in delusion and desperate to sever connections with Africa or claim non African roots which is truly sad and one of the most blatant examples of self hate a person can witness.

Well, I missed your specific direction. And bring clarity to it because every information i have tried to relate with or relay here still centered on Odua—Yoruba history.

jupiterx:
Thanks
You haven't replied the rest of the msg
By the way have sent an email to your email address

Yeah and I replied you and I hope you got it. Now, PDF all the topics/Sources I sent to you when you google.

geosegun:
This is how information nay knowledge should be shared and corrections made if any, and not like @macof using repulsive words/sentences.

Excellent discussions going on here...

Well, if you can identify so many animals,then you will understand human beings reactionary attitudes. I used this as a metaphor because, each individual you come across has an absolute character of a particular animal like nature in his or her make up..So, when I come across people in real life or social media,I tend to understand them from such angle. Irrespective of individual ,claiming Spiritualism and Yoruba traditional society group, it still didnt change the fact that aĺl Yorubas and human beings have equal opportunity to express himself or herself. Using vulgar words isnt the best way to approach issue. Even if such apologists of the traditon of our ancestors do attach sentiments to Yoruba tradition and beliefs. The one being who all answers to is Eledumare in Yoruba land . And Yoruba God dont die but lives forever. So, I don't see any reason one should fight for Yoruba deified beings who worshipped Eledumare . I expect omoluabi's character from all of us irrespective of our differences . Although IFA's knowledge existed before Jesus came to the earth in Phyiscal person Yet IFA acknowledged Jesus christ because, the first thing that came out of ELedumare was Oro/word(Ela oro wa), which was the first word spoken by Eledumare. You will find this shocking resemblance with the Bible until you read it in one of Odu IFA . And the Path of IFA guided Yoruba people without flaws until evil people who had knowlwdge of IFA manipulated it for their selfish reasons. Having opined this,choice is given to all individual by God of the bible which is the same as God of Yorubas. There were people that became a Contact to Eledumare in the ancient time in yoruba land that became defied and used as a link to Eledumare(God almighty ). The point here is that The Arabs calls God (Allah), The Hebrew of Old called God(Eli) and Yoruba called God Elu-Olu (Eledumare) . The ancient Yorubas worshipped God and the modern Yorubas are still in tune with God despite Yorubas shortcoming .

jupiterx:
Read/still reading Samuel Johnson's account....
Which doesn't agree with you....
Well am still learning,
I don't know much about the different 'Oguns', where can I get the account of Otun Ekiti, Ado Ekiti and Efon Alaye.
By the way you didn't reply the last msg

Sorry about it because it slipped my mind.



xylovoice@gmail.com

DevdanSanguine:
I don't think you understand how DNA works man. If your forefathers were indeed what you claim there'd at least be traces of their DNA no matter how little. I googled what you said and this is what I found, mind you khoisans are viewed as probably the most African Africans and I guess so are you. Something you should be proud of not trying to disprove with one hilarious theory or another.

I didn't tell you to google but get a copy of what research did via admixture of what the first set of advanced ancestors who migrated back to Africa. If you don't know, I guess you should not affirm authoritatively as you claimed. Then get books about Egyptians,Nubians,Ethiopians ,Sumerian , Assyrians, Persians,Babylonians, Arabians Conquests as it relates to the Hebrews. Perhaps, you will have world view of migration, civilization and God —gods of each group before splinters emerged from them all.

DevdanSanguine:
I don't understand. You speak an indigenous african Niger Congo language.

Live exclusively in West Africa.

Phenotypically more like stereotypical Africans than probably any other west African ethnic group.

Your DNA shows you're 100 percent indigenous Saharan African with no non sub Saharan African admixture.

Yet somehow you believe this bull jive that you're not indigenous Africans?

Well,I will take the pain to reply to you because, it seems you are new. Little do you know,that your location with highest population is where DNA will stuck to. Take for instance, if Yorubas are presently located in Asia ,where would the blood and DNA be related to if not Asian People? However, I want to you access Neanderthal traces in Yoruba DNA ( Nature, DOI: 10.1038/nature12886 ) by Reich .

jupiterx:
Bro the Ekitis are aboriginals right?
By the the way I'd like to have your email address

Nope,they are not.However, some of them had a fusion with Aboriginal link. Dont mind certain information of Samuel Ajayi Crowther because he blundered. I will categorically tell you that Ekiti are Odua linked Group. They worship Umole ,which was the word associated with deities linked with Odua group. The major reason the Odua group and Oba tala dominated this environment was because of large concentration of given birth to male Children that married the other non Migrant groups or earlier settlers before the arrival of these Yoruba groups. You need to read the account of Otun Ekiti, Ado Ekiti etc to know who the Ekitis represent. Ogun Oni Irè is in Ekiti. I am sure ,you have knowledge of the different Oguns and people who associated with the Ogun, that the Yoruba worship as well as Ijála being chanted by his devotees. The. Ekitis were an offshoot of Odua descendants.

geosegun:
Shigidi according to published paper: Shigidi, or Shugudu, is deified nightmare. The name appears to mean "something short and bulky," and the god, or demon, is represented by a broad and short head, made of clay, or, more commonly, by a thick, blunted cone of clay, which is ornamented with cowries, and is no doubt emblematic of the head Shigidi is an evil god, and enables man to gratify his hate in secret and without risk to himself.

If you have a different meaning or opinion please let me know.

Now, for the fact that I buttress some point base on certain assertion does not mean I believe in it. I was only explaining what I ve heard but may or may not be correct.

Here you have it. The ball is in your court macof

There is a saying , Ai t'èhin(èyin)ka la fi ówó bo (èetè)."Be bold to stand on what you heard,studied and believe in . Your grandmother may not be far from the truth because there are Yorubas that migrated to this present day Nigeria. In some part of Ondo,during the ancient times, each migrants from ILE IFE named his new envrion ILE IFE as a suffix to the name the founded colony of ILE IFE emigrants. What does this imply? It meant ,ILE IFE as a generic name had been in the mindsets of the first settlers who were migrants to Nigeria. If you doubt ,check the history of I Oba axis , danre etc. Secondly, there are over over 500 words shared between Hebrew/Aramaic/ Arabia/Egypt/Sumeria etc . even till date . Take for instance “ Father which Ba, Uba,Abba, (Baba is very recent because it was borrowed from Hausa/ Malian people and very modern considering the ancient way of calling Father in Yoruba language). And even the Northern Yoruba of OYO YORUB who were the ones that begun such usage still maintain "Ba" as father. Specifically, Ilorin , has exposed the identity of some Yorubas because Solagbade was one of the founder of Okesuna and settlers in this place.The core families in Agbaji namely; Ile Saura, Ile Aburo, Ile Baba Sa`are, Ile Agoro and Ile Imam Agbaji were originally Sudanese Arabs from a town called Ar-Baji on the Blue Nile. So also were the ancestral parents of the people of Ile Ara-Agbaji at Masingba, Oke Imole. Ile Hejebu, Ile Singini, Ile Oloko, Ile Oniko, Ile Ada-Ara and Ile Majo are extensions of the core families in Agbaji.Members of Ile Ibrahim Bature at Oke-Apomu are Arabs by origin. They migrated to Ilorin from Agades from Niger Republic. The Ojibara family in the same area is of Fulani descent. They initially sojourned in Borno before they migrated to Ilorin finally.

The people of Ile Ture of Ode Alausa, like members of the core families at Agbaji are Sudanese migrants in Ilorin.The Solagberu family at Agbaji, the Onagun family of Ita-Egba, the members of Ile Oloyin (formerly called Ile Igbon) at Ita Elepa, the Giwa family of Popo Giwa and the Mekabara family of Ita Ogunbo are Kanuri migrants. Solagberu migrated from Bama in Bornu and was founder of ancient Okesuna. The point here is that Yoruba are admixture of different people and few are aboriginal and assimilated due to inter marriages. Although the migrants populated and dominated the environment due to their exposure. Yoruba certain names and sculpture are non West African. This simply implies the point your grandmother said had some elements of truth because before Samuel Ajayi crowther mentioned it,the people had such notion that they were migrants . Lastly, foreign people/ Historians/Archeologists have studied and still studying Yoruba history likewise Yoruba and non Yoruba of Nigeria. And no known conclusion that specify that Yoruba were aboriginal.

jupiterx:
The one they have is 2.18mb
A 37page extract
Not the full book

Yeah,I know. As usual, you won't find the total extraction because the publishers want you and to buy the hard copy.

jupiterx:
Bros kosowo o

Smiles . Trust me,to download isn't going to cost you much of your mb.

jupiterx:
Bros olu
Please do you have PDFs or books of D.O Fagunwa?

No,I don't but you can download the Forest of a Thousand Demons - City Lights Books
PDF www.citylights.com

Ai,gbo ifa la un wokè Ifa kan ko si pápá

Deadlytruth:
If you were honest and not simply on a mission to impose Yorubaness on the actually non-Yoruba people of Akoko-Edo, you would not have failed to observe the inconsistency of some of your fellow Yorubas here that first started with the claim that most Akoko-Edo towns were founded by Yorubas, and when that was proven wrong they quickly shifted the goal post to the claim that they were only talking of Yoruba influence in Akoko-Edo. How on earth did you fail to see this inconsistency but saw a non-existent emotional attachment in my responses?
And for you to describe the presentation of undisputable facts as emotional attachment while implicitly endorsing Your Yoruba brothers' inconsistencies and obvious fallacies here as non-emotional attachments is an evidence that words are fast losing their meanings in Nigeria just because certain people wish to impose their own identities on others. Such should be a shame in civilized climes which unfortunately Nigeria is far from.


It is indeed shocking that you saw only my denial of the phantom Yoruba influence but you were completely blind to the asinine claim by your brothers that there are Yoruba founded towns in Akoko-Edo.
That alone shows that you yourself are actually guilty of the emotional attachment you accuse me of.
I keep wondering why Yorubas like you believe you can know me more than I know myself as as Akoko-Edo person.
After having all your lies and fabrications punctured and swept away with hard facts and simple logic from Akoko-Edo people themselves, rather than accept that you and your folks had been ignorant in the past, the next thing for you is to patronized this childish emotional outburst above.
Must every tribe be forced to assume they are Yorubas?
Your likes sit far away in Yorubaland and impose Yorubaness on others whose communities you have never and will never likely visit.
This assumption of Yorubaness for Akoko-Edo is similar to how most Southerners assume that the Middle Belters are Hausa-Fulanis until the day they travel to the Northern parts of the country to live among and interact with the Middle Beltern tribes on a first hand basis.
Please be informed that the demographic fraud called WAZOBIA which has obviously created in you the perception that only Hausa, Yoruba and Igbo exist in and own Nigeria is no longer tenable.

On the claim of Late Fred Agbaje which you now tenaciously hold onto as your only remaining lifeline in this expansionism enterprise: I thought my explanation that Akoko-Edos living in Yorubaland are fond of seeking political relevance among Yorubas by faking Yorubaness should do? If you had imbibed the broad-mindedness you seem to preach here you definitely wouldn't have stuck to the opinion of just an individual Fred Agbaje while neglecting the opinion of majority of Ibillo people themselves.
Whenever Oba Akiolu, a supposed Yoruba monarch in possession of a high level of credibility conferred on him by his throne, claims that Binis founded Lagos and that he himself is a Bini descendant; how come your likes always vilify him and denounce it as an individual's opinion despite you being supposedly "broad-minded"?
You did not accept Oba Akiolu's more authoritative individual position but you want us to accept Fred Agbaje's less authoritative individual opinion, right? Mountainous hypocrisy!

Mind you that unlike Late Fred Agbaje, Oba Akiolu does not live in Edo State hence can't be making those Bini descent claims in search for political relevance among Edos. In fact judging from his threat to drown Lagos resident Igbos in the Lagoon if they voted for Jimi Agbaje of PDP, it becomes an obvious testimonial that he has no use for political correctness, and that whatever he voices out is his sincere and genuine opinion.

Again, you blundered . The only insistence on this thread is that part of community within Akoko -Edo were founded by Yoruba migrants . And this opinion has been backed up by names of Yoruba's ancestry .Why dont you accept the truth?Even if you accuse , some Yorubas on here because of emotional attachment, are they not justified? After all, some Edo were emotional too. And this showed all humans are all with their flaws. But on this contentious issue,Yorubas have given out Yoruba identifiable names within Akoko Edo. Anyway, you are entitled to your opinion so I am.

Deadlytruth:
Being a Prof in academics does not automatically confer one with accurate and deep knowledge of one's roots.
The case I mentioned of Igarra people initially believing they were from Igala had Igarra professors who fell for that narrative.

I have been following your opinion and your emotional attachment to Akoko Edos. It is so unfortunate that people opined on social media without considering the larger implication of what they stand for . It is shocking to see your denials as regard the elders in Some places claiming Yoruba ancestry as appalling because you claim, they are uneducated and ignorant of their real connection. Funny enough, Bini proper worship Ogun/Ogum as god of iron , who was also known as god of iron in Yoruba land as well . I have never seen anything as opined in this manner as you have tried to do. I had mention in the past that the late Enigmatic Akoko Edo lawyer known as Fred Agbaje claimed, their ancestors were yoruba ancestors.Professor, Ajomo claim it again ,you try to suppress the truth . You must be a hilarious person within your environment. I want to let you know that the information contrary to yours on this forum didnt deny the fact that other Edoid groups migrated to different places to fuse with others,even in Ibillo etc. The point here is,what is the reason denying the truth,if you are named deadlytruth?. Being broadminded is,what you need imbibe. Anyway, it just testified to the egocentric nature of man as a whole. Yoruba indeed influenced Akoko Edo and Bini kingdom as a whole.

GodSon34:
No offence but you are yet another educated Nigerian that has been brainwashed and deceived by oyinbo. Nigerians are a lost cause. Oyinbo has truly deceived you. For instance Sungbos Eredo is much older the 1000yrs they claim. It was ancient Jerusalem, called Jebus-salem. The Ijebu are not Yoruba, they are Jebus and built Jebusalem. Which the white man destroyed and covered up the history(his story). They then created a false Jerusalem in Middle East which didn’t even exist then. Synagogue of Satan. Please I’d like to school you on truth but human beings don’t like truth, they love lies. Nah Oyinbo go destroy una with their fake history and lies. Good luck bro!

And all these your write up is the correct information,right? Yet Ethiopian was the First set of Christian of African descents. And the Bible supported and confirmed by Ethiopians too that Orthodox Christianity started with them. How come Jerusalem become a lie? Anyway, you are only being Afrocentric or may i narrow it down to being Yorubacentric. What a surprise to seeing opinion without evidence. You use a negative words on people whom you have not met nor have knowledge of their age. Such action belong to the weak. I am a SOLID YORUBA MAN and who doesnt use words wrongly . Learn to be an OMOLUABI . The one who is not educated between you and I can be proven right and wrong on different African's tribe history . Go and Read more or venture into full history studies at the university level. I have gone beyond this stage of yours as regard Yoruba history and probable place of migration

Lastly, I won't engage you on this again.

GodSon34:
Check out my post on the ‘Origin of Humanity’.

I saw it but not a proof about Yoruba existence has ever been postulated by etymologists or historians within Africa as the first set of human beings . Even Ibo language is older than Yoruba's. Yeah,I mean the people referred to presently as Yoruba didn't exist 50 thousands of years back . Show me a Yoruba professor or any professor who can stuck out his neck or her's for Yoruba's claim archaeologically . This is the reason that your theory as claiming Garden of Eden is off track.

Derin Ologbenla ,was a prince,spiritually sound mind, great warrior, who turned out as a Saviour to the Ondo Ègis kingdom ,the first Baalè of Oke Igbo and Ooni ILE IFE.

GodSon34:
The Ile Ife he’s referring to is Ile Ife Owodaiye (Ife Oodaye) the one that is a so-called myth. The Ife in Osun state is a fraud. Ife Oodaye Is in Lagos/Ogun state.

Eledumare will always have mercy. Where exactly in Lagos—Ogun state is ILE IFE Oodèaiyè is situated? I want to learn.

Larooye:
LOL, I thought you came up with this yourself but it is starting to look like someone gave you this narratives because these conjectures are way below your intelligence. I hate to be the beater of bad news but whomever told you these thing sold you a dummy


I should not speak on Ooniship in public.

It is interesting that you think you know the facts about my hometown better than I. A place where I was born and raised from 3 families in the centre of the socio-political and socio-cultural history and system in Ife.

Enjoy yourself online with the lies that many before you had spread about Ooni. You are the one that need to seek such true knowledge.Do you know how many lies that had been told ? What you think you know is not known to you and what you know is known to you and is extremely small.And until you take the right path to seek true knowledge from the right source. Whatever is sold to you today differ from the true means of how Ooni emerged in the past. You claimed you were born in Ile ife and from three compound . That is a great thing to known .Well, I am a descendant of Lafogido ancestors lineage . The descendant of Luusi/ Olusi and the great grandson of Ajamaiye/ Ajalaiye. Go and ask your elders who these men were. How do you relate with that ?

Larooye:
If it is the same Ile-Ife that I am from, then as a son of 3 major compounds in Ife I can authoritatively tell you the emboldened is wrong.

An Ooni only become vastly spiritual AFTER becoming an Ooni and you derive this spirituality from Ogboni Obatala, Are, Ogboni Iledi Ooni and each temple of the 201 deities in Ile-Ife.

OMG! Was Lafogido spiritually sound after he became Ooni? If your assertion is correct ,how did Oranmiyan became Ooni? How did Lajamisan cornered the kingship only to his descendants? Do you know the story of Ooni Ogbooru?Did Derin Olongbenla became spiritually strong after he became Ooni? Naturally, not Ooni descendant can become Ooni,do you not know why?. Tell your informant that you saw someone that informed you that each ooni to be must have a spiritual gift. And one's he become the Ooni,he transform to a replica deity of his ancestor known as Odua/Adimunia/Adimula . And the method of chosen was divne . Am sure you know the last part as it conern divine.



Lastly ,I wont go further than this.

Larooye:
If it is the same Ile-Ife that I am from, then as a son of 3 major compounds in Ife I can authoritatively tell you the emboldened is wrong.

An Ooni only become vastly spiritual AFTER becoming an Ooni and you derive this spirituality from Ogboni Obatala, Are, Ogboni Iledi Ooni and each temple of the 201 deities in Ile-Ife.

OMG! Was Lafogido spiritually sound after he became Ooni? If your assertion is correct ,how did Oranmiyan became Ooni? How did Lajamisan cornered the kingship only to his descendants? Do you know the story of Ooni Ogbooru?Did Derin Olongbenla became spiritually strong after he became Ooni? Naturally, not Ooni descendant can become Ooni,do you not know why?. Tell your informant that you saw someone that informed you that each ooni to be must have a spiritual gift. And one's he become the Ooni,he transform to a replica deity of his ancestor known as Odua/Adimunia/Adimula . And the method of chosen was divne . Am sure you know the last part as it concern divine.



Lastly ,I wont go further than this.

GodSon34:
All that one na (His)story. Check out my posts for some education.

What post do you want me to check without evidence? Not interested in your view if you cant comprehend what archeology has done to the world of humans. It did so many discoveries when it even unearthed artifacts that had been lost in the past which were due to some factors ranging from wars, chaos ,secrecy and beyond you and I's imagination. Without the help of archeology so many African kingdoms won't be able to tell their story because it is mostly oral and appreciated if not as a result of white explorers of European descent that had dug out amazing sculpture in Yoruba land ,including ILE IFE and elsewhere in Africa. Today, Yoruba's culture is taken serious and white researchers have taken more bold steps to dug out more evidence in ILE IFE , Ijebu and still ,continous research is being done. So what's your point? Even corpus of some odu IFA testifies to science knowledge existence in Yoruba land. Cant you place herbs usage etc?


Cheers.

OrisaEsu:
Olu317

In Ife piror to this, the Ooni’s balls were in the hands of the Ogboni. Read Leo Frobenius’ journal during his visit to Ife for insight. Read up on Oyo, Ibadan & Ijebu pre-colonial history too, to have an idea of how much Ogboni controlled the king & the state.

Kings may have some type of power since 1914 till today but they are floor menbers of Ogboni. The Kings treat Oluwo, Lisa, Apena, Iya Abiye & co as royalties. Kings do not head any Ogboni.

I am sharing this from the position of an ‘insider’.

You are sharing this from the position of an insider? Ok dear, I can see your position. If Ogboni hold sway over the King , then there is no reason to engage you but I will do it slightly . One of the greatest mistake on NL is the assumption and wrong information being dispense . Quickly ,let me emphasis here that Oyo was the only place in the ancient time that Ogboni could really frustrate the king . In ILE IFE, to be an oooni in the ancient time,you must be vast spiritually. I am sure ,you know what Ayajo, Ogèdè and Ofo .Again, Osanyi's knowledge comes to my mind,which is attached to knowing herbs while seeing vision is also a great gift that Ooni did had. Likewise some ancient Obas. The places you mentioned had slight differences as it regard powers bestowed upon Ogboni within her domain. Being an Ogboni had and still has no connection to one's spiritual prowess. It is what you come with ,that gives you an edge over other members. I DIDNT MENTION OSUGBO . I AM SURE YOU KNOW OTHER GROUPS TOO.

GodSon34:
Yes it was!!!

’Don't wash your dirty linen in public', is an idiom i will use to curtail this part of human history as it regard fact despite my connection to ILE IFE in Nigeria. However, there is no known land in West Africa that had a human Bone deposit that is as old as the one found recently unearthed by an international team of scientists . They mark the earliest fossilized remains of Homo sapiens ever found. Until now, that honor belonged to two Ethiopian fossils that are 160,000 and 195,000 years old respectively. But the Jebel Irhoud bones, and the stone tools that were uncovered with them, are far older—around 315,000 years old, with a possible range of 280,000 to 350,000. So what is the point of such engagement on this issue? The most rumoured radio carbon was said to be between 300-400BC, with no trace of proper human settlements but husbandry . In fact,Iwo Eleru bone's discovery was just 9000 years old and the bone's is not connected to Yoruba ancestors. so, It is not worth it.

Garden of Eden was not in Nigeria

MetaPhysical:
9ja,

I believe there are many distinct disciplines in the study of Yoruba and I saw somewhere a mention in the past by someone that we need Yorubologists, specialists in the study areas.

When I think of a comprehensive structure for Yoruba study here is what I visualize.

1. The Language of Yoruba
sounds, tones, vocals, words..

2. The History of Yoruba
timelines, event markers, footprints, wars, plagues, adversities, gains, thrones, coups..

3. The Spirituality of Yoruba
cults, manuscripts, crypts, worship, altars, divination, priests, temples..

4. The Alchemy of Yoruba
herbals, minerals, salts, compounds, elements, numerals, formulas, alkalis..

5. The Arts of Yoruba
wood sculpting, ivory, stone, soapstone, bronze, terra cotta, copper, drums, music, dye, weaving..

6. The Theaters of Yoruba
egungun, gelede, efe, eyo, agemo, edi, itapa, isese..

7. The Philosophy of Yoruba
Ifa, omoluabi, ori, iwa, iteriba, isojude, idobale, ikunle..

8. The Cavalry of Yoruba
Aare, Balogun, Basorun, Eso..

9. The Government of Yoruba
Crown, Legislature, Judiciary, Enforcement..

10. The Yoruba People
Ife, Oyo, Sabe, Popo, Orangun, Ketu, Bini..

11. The Heros and Legends of Yoruba
Obatala, Oduduwa, Moremi, Sango, Ogun, Yemoja, Olokun..


What we know so far is that authors on Yoruba subject try to squeeze bits and pieces of the component areas into their books. It is work in progress and hopefully we will have our Yorubologists in not too far time from now.

You are a rare breed and appreciated. I went through many desirous questions and suggestions of yours that testified to your search in unraveling the mystery ,myths and independent study of Yoruba heroes and heroines turned to personified deities. The Truth about these things are been repealed gradually and we shall get there by the grace of Eledumare.

Theydontcare:
I would not dispute you claim will address it based on logic. Benin was a great empire no doubt. That does not mean it come before other great empires. The fact that Ife might not have commanded any influence does not mean it did not come before Benin.

I am not sure either you are afraid to infer the truth or you want to psyche up the present Edo—Bini people to feel weighty beyond historical account . This is because, in all the contact the Portuguese had with Bini , they thought she controlled everywhere until truth came forth through questioning of the Oba Bini,who pointed to IFE ( Uhe in Bini)as the place his father came from and known with a title called Ooni( corrupted as Oghene by Binis) some later years. This is the reason some of them uses map to assume Bini was an Empire . Bini was a kingdom,that was the way it stood and will stand . An empire will influence the language of the conquered and their descendants will still exist there. There are people in Bénin, Togo, Ghana that claim descendants from ILE IFE. Attah of Igbira testified to the truth that some of their ancestors were of Yoruba origin, So why not call a spade a spade.? Let those proudly Bini that claimed they conquered territories who live outside the shore of Bini that claim no connection with Yoruba ,need be proud of themselves. Isn't it a shame that part of the area some Bini footsoldiers had lived and tried to dethrone the hierarchy in Eastern Yoruba were so many and one was Ondo town which was during the reign of Oba Arisekolasi. In fact, during the uprising, some of the indigenes collided with the Bini soldiers to kill Arisekolasi. And One of Oranmiyan descendant who was known as Prince Derin Ologbenla routed them out and gave Arisekolasi a befitting burial. And install another Yoruba king. Mind you, he didn't take over the kingdom as king. If you go to Ekiti state, you can verify the name and history of USI EKITI. This name and the town existed because of one warrior, a descendant of Oranmiyan known as Prince OLUSI/LUSI. He fought against Edos at Emure, Ado Ekiti etc to help his relatives whenever he was called upon. Mind you, he didn't overthrew the king and assume the position of the king. I mentioned two out of many. ILE IFE was a sacred and spiritual and physical home and was not expected to be an Empire. The instructions was always go out and bring fortune and greatness back to ILE IFE. Don't compare ILE IFE and Bini because the towns founded by Ooni descendants are everywhere ,how many towns did Bini dynasty founded? . They don't belong to the same class.


Cheers

N. B: Bini map by Professor OSARHIEME BENSON OSADOLOR

dejai99:
It is an open truth that yoruba land is the home of twins - we sure have them in abundance. Nonetheless, this is dedicated to all twins.

Oriki Ibeji:
Ẹ̀jìrẹ́ ará ìṣokún.
Ẹdúnjobí
Ọmọ ẹdun tíí ṣeré orí igi
Ọ́-bẹ́-kẹ́ṣé-bẹ́-kàṣà,
Ó fẹsẹ̀ méjèèjì bẹ sílé alákìísa;
Ó salákìísà donígba aṣọ.
Gbajúmọ̀ ọmọ tíí gbàkúnlẹ̀ ìyá,
Tíí gbàdọ̀bálẹ̀ lọ́wọ́ baba tó bí í lọ́mọ.
Wínrinwínrin lójú orogún
Ejìwọ̀rọ̀ lojú ìyá ẹ̀.
Tani o bi ibeji ko n'owo?

Every Twins hail from Isokun.
A relative of monkeys you are
Hoping and jumping from a tree branch to the other
Jumping helter-skelter,you landed in a wretched man's place
Turning around his misfortunes
A rare set of children that commands undue honour and respect from their parents
To your stepmother, you are an unwelcome sight
But to your mother, you are both emperors of two empires!
Wouldn't you love to be parents to twins ?

Ejirè ti Eledumare fi ta omo araye loorè ati oré.

Ẹ̀jìrẹ́ okin
Ẹ̀jìrẹ́ ti mo bi, ti mo jo
Ẹ̀jìrẹ́ ti mo bi, ti mo yó
Ẹ̀jìrẹ́ ara isokun
Omó édun nsere lori igi
Ẹ̀jìrẹ́ wo ile olowo ko ló
O wo ile olola ko ló bé
Ile alakisá lo ló
Ẹ̀jìrẹ́ só alakisá di alasó
O só otosi di olowo
Bi Taiwo ti nló ni iwaju
Bééni, Kéhinde ntó lehin
Taiwo ni omode, Kehinde ni ebgon
Taiwo ni a ran ni sé
Pe ki o ló tó aiye wò
Bi aiye dara, bi ko dara
O tó aiye wò. Aiye dun bi oyin
Taiwo, Kehinde, ni mo ki
Eji woró ni oju iya ré
O de ile oba térin-térin
Jé ki nri jé, ki nri mu =ASÉ

I celebrate twins. If you have them celebrate them because they are special. God bless them.

God bless us all.

OrisaEsu:
This is an interesting thought, baba.

The first emboldened is very true, oriki idile was one of our father & mother’s way of keeping our connections to our various sources intact.

- The second emboldened, baba, I can’t say for sure if Ogboni Ideta was rebellious but I do know every Ooni has to initiate into it before anything else. Every Ooni also brings calabash of food every year barefeet walking 7 times to and from his palace. This started from Oduduwa & it was one of the ways Oduduwa won the battle but lost most of the victory. It is why every Ooni is called ‘Alase ekeji orisa’, Obatala is the only deity known as Orisa in the whole pantheon - apologies that I digressed. The Ogboni then was to break Oduduwa’s wings, it had him tied down and subject to Obatala who co-ruled with him but from behind the scene. Might I add that Obatala owned the Are crown too and joininh the Ogboni was one of the conditions upon which every Ooni could be given the crown.


- Baba what you alluded to as the formation of ROF is not correct o except you’ve confused ROF for Ogboni Ibile. ROF was formed in the Nigeria colonial era in the Anglican church.

Hmmmm, at your second, emboldened, you really want to draw me Out of my shell.....Well, I am sure you are an ILE IFE indigene and you have knowledge about certain tradition as it seems. Like I said, Ogboni came during the period after Odua and not during his lifetime. This was the account according to Lafogido descendants that went forth and back to conquer and return back to ILE IFE. There are so many things some Awos tried to change due so many things my dear which was the actual reason many flee from Awos because of ritual that each individual has to embark once an Awo's assistance is needed. And some of these Awos became dubious by asking the poor seeker to give what he or she cannot afford. I know this part well as it regard Igba keji orisa because Igba ke ji Orisa wasn't about Ogboni but ancestors or gods as it seems because Ogboni were all under every king once each individual emerge as a king. If I may ask you, who is/was the real ORISA? Why does IFA has an edge over all Obas and not under any Oba , no matter how powerful or spiritually sound such Oba ? . So many things posted online that I smile when I read them. Odua was not curtailed in anyway because he was spiritually sound. Knowing Juju (oooogun) and might had everything to do to curtail him but he wasn't . This is the reason that odua descendants can only be initiated into Ogboni once such become King or Ooni. Ogboni remained under the king and the king assumed the headship whenever a king is made in any community. This is what I know. Oranmiyan was very powerful when he returned back to ILE IFE.... Well, On reform Ogboni, I have opened a chapter here and am sure people will come with their opinion. However, I am opportune to know this because Eledumare gave me such privilege.