₦airaland Forum

Footstradamus:
What exactly do you have against en suite bedrooms? Getting a bit tedious coming on here to see you arguing against the same daily. I thought that chapter was closed when it was pointed out to you it all comes down to choice.

Next thing you know you will be advocating communal baths in each street to minimize cost, doing away with the one bath per house entirely

I think you are missing the point lol.

Mayor78:
Surely a two bedroom with one family bathroom, and one visitors toilet comes highly recommended, provides needed privacy, completely ideal, and provides for better use of space and resources. That wasn't the contention, it is having two bedrooms ensuite without provision for the visitors is what is at issue.

If you agree that a visitors toilet is an essential provision in a two bedroom apartment and not an overkill design, I yield with respect.

I didn't disagree nor contested visitors toilets, I am very conversant with the pattern. I only said 3 toilets and 2 bathroom in a 2 bedroom apartment is an overkill demand/design.....I said I believe with 2 toilets(visitors and family toilets) and 1 bathroom the same apartment can function properly with the necessary comfort and privacy irrespective of outrageous renters/market demand or trying build something unique.
It's a matter of owners choices which I didn't contest either. I am being pragmatic, that is just me.

mufutau55:
Is this Dutch (German)... I like the words..

Hajji M.

It's Dutch spoken in The Netherlands and Flanders in Belgium. The German language is called Deutsch.

adanny01:
Yes we do for one obvious reason, a Nigerian[b] will get more visitors and squatters than most places in the world because of out culture and poverty[/b].

I have 4 sisters-in-law with my wife being the eldest. I honestly can't remember all her aunts by name or location. My house accommodates at least one of them each month.

99% of all visitors to my house are females and friends or relatives of my wife, how comfortable do you think I will be when all these friends and family of my wife are in my house without a second or guest toilet?

Honestly, getting more visitors or squatters is not an excuse to demand nor a reason to make all room ensuite mandatory to attract potential renters.
Like I mentioned earlier a 2or3 bedroom apartment don't require more than 1 bathroom and 2 toilets to function and guarantee comfort/privacy for all permanent or temporary occupants.

n3xt:
#thisislagos #neighbourhoodsecurity

#staypositive

What are involved in buying estate land in Abuja and what are the requirements for the building and contribution for resident?

n3xt:
#thisislagos

Picture Credit: Skyscrapercity

Without security no tourist would be encouraged to visit there.

One4me:
Let us even pretend that River Niger/Benue does not exist, there must be a very cogent reason to ignore the Calabar-Lagos Line, with all the benefits and jobs it can create along that axis, to now sink $2billion in a Kano to Niger Republic border Rail line.

What will that rail carry and where will the goods be from?
Maybe our Govt wants to transport Crude Oil by road from the ND or refined Petroleum products from the Apapa Wharf by Road, to Kano and then put it on Rail to Niger Republic border, so the Nigeriens can come pick it up.

Even the Lagos-Ibadan Rail line is yet to be completed in the last five years that other Rail projects in the North (started about the same time or after it), have all been completed. It is same story: No Money to finish the project.
Abuja-Kaduna road has been completed and forgoten since, but the Lagos-Ibadan is still dragging and will drag till 2023.
East-West Road is dragging and will drag unfinished till 2023.

The problem is usually some 'Southerners' who are too scared to even think for themselves or ask necessary questions from our Brothers in the North, always trying to 'over-please' and 'bend-down-make-l Bleep-you-from-behind' to them.

Some Nigerians are very intelligent and could find real solutions to real problems but I must also say majority of Nigerians are too slow in thinking, dumb and exaggarative in policies benefit, everything is rocket science for them.
Internal economic is the bedrock of Nigeria's economy and just no effort to expand them, little Belgium build a man made Canal and it has become a major economic source for industries, transportation and different job creation. What have we done with River Niger and Benue? Nothing!

Badgers14:
It is all about choice...

Some people might call it overkill.. maybe it is an overkill to them, some people might even think it that's not enough bathrooms

There are houses where I live that have 4 bedrooms and 7 bathrooms

I once lived in a studio apartment by choice not that I couldn't find proper apartment.. I liked the layout and it was easier for me for the type of work I did at the time and my lifestyle at the time.


So all this overkill or not overkill is just individual choices. This is one of the reason I advice potential homeowners to be very involved in the design stage of your house.. because the client knows what will work for them, their family , lifestyle and potential use of the build and to direct the architect to design appropriately.

If you are building a tenant house, do a market survey around the area you intend to build. Who are your intended clients? That is what kind of tenants do you intend to live there ?
Do people prefer 3 bathrooms in a 2 bed apartment? Or they don't care much ... remember there are still some older builds in a high demand areas that have 3 bedrooms and 1 bath and people still hit their heads on the wall to rent them...

I happen to live where things are regulated and classified with common sense, so I have seen both side and all choice are not free sometimes beyond the maximum.

While you are free to spend your money as you want an extravagant plan beyond the classified requirement will be thoroughly scrutinized and 99% chance it would be rejected. I have learnt a lot in Nigeria and other part of the world to guide my judgement.

Like @true2home once wrote here: If a tenant is too big for what I have to rent, they are way too big to be a renter, I always advise them to go build their own house.
That philosophy is GENIUS!

mufutau55:
Please read my other post jare. The rail is not going inside Niger Republic but stopping where Nigeria ends.

Hajji M.

I still don't understand the immediate economic benefits of that rail line? River Niger and river Benue that could create millions of maritime related jobs and industries has not been accessed they deemed it fit to establish a Rail link to Niger Republic, another misplaced priority!

uncleteeh:
Sir, this design isn't for Nigerians. The words there look like German. We value privacy a lot in this part of the world. Such doesn't work here and is not even advisable to be designed in this century. All rooms should be ensuite[b][/b].

It's Dutch not German! Lol
You mean to be telling me Nigerians value privacy more than other part of the world? Please, let not overrate ourselves, we are very good at rigid solutions and wastage.
From your sum up it will be a complete waste of time to make you see things from a philosophical and flexible creative idea behind functionalities and usefulness.

#Peace

n3xt:
To answer the ‘why?’ question, we must first understand what motivates them to undertake the creative endeavors.

I think we’ve walk this route before (not sure it’s on nairaland) and I was made to understand that architectural plan/concept/designs are intellectual property here. So I just went mute on the topic.

The motivation here is “money”

Many people are in the profession without understanding exactly why. Some people chose the profession to make money or please their parents and other people.

Some people found that they’re fairly unique and creatively artisitic. They love to build things and solve environmental problems.[/b]They became an architect because they’re fully aware of what an architect was/and should be. [b]They’re driven by passion to make a difference.

I may be wrong though but the popular believe here is “If a client have access to the floor plans without any commitment, he might not be willing to pay.”

Secondly, the sector is largely unregulated. If you check around, you’ll see a lot of CAD trainers charging less than N5,000 (less than $12) to teach AutoCad and other CAD softwares - raising the number of cowboy designers in the industry.
These cowboy designers can charge anything to produce any nonsense which poses a big challenge for the real professional in the industry. They can replicate any design for less making the real creatives less attractive.

I had a client who did a drawing that costs over N4m. I won’t encourage the architect of such project to list his work on any platform in Nigeria because he can always get jobs on referral.

Lastly, there are “copy and build” clients who’d rather copy designs on the internet without attributing the original designer/architect or paying for the design. This constitutes largely to the reason why most architects hoard their designs in Nigeria.

_____
By now, Nairaland ought to have made some upgrades to the forum to better manage all these issues.
Baba, I know you can relate that forums can actually be of help to architects and other professionals. We’ve seen it on other platforms.
I know a forum where guests can’t view attachments until they’re verified. There are also forums with membership levels.

The only thing we have here on Nairaland is our date of birth (abi it’s date/time registered) which really doesn’t help.

That's what you get when a system is not regulated and subjected to continuous control of qualities.

While individual creative can make a difference, Nigeria's educational system is too dormant to produce creative prosperity.

Phylife:
The plan looks great and could please interpret it.

Slaapkamer 1 - bedroom 1
Slaapkamer 2 - bedroom 2
Woonkamer - living room
Badkamer - bathroom with WC
WC - visitors toilet
Kast - closet
Hal - lobby
Open keuken - open kitchen

Mayor78:
I am struggling to see where having 2 bedroom apartment both ensuite with a visitors toilet is an overkill design. I would question the judgement of an architect that made that observation.

So you live in a two bedroom apartment with your wife occupying one room, and your two young kids occupying the other room, then you have a family friend over for Sunday brunch, are you saying the family friend should use either of the ensuite toilets for convenience? No! It is not appropriate in this day and age. I don't need to bump into your wife or children or keep saying sorry each time I invaded their privacy on my way to ease myself in your house. There is a reason behind having a designated visitors toilet in an apartment or house. Any business there is private, and we all deserve some dignity and enjoy some level of comfort too within a shelter.

Therefore, any modern house design should avoid potential breach of privacy and comfort as part of its functionality. A communal 2 ensuite bedroom apartment without a visitors toilet fell below functional threshold irrespective. A good architect knew that.

That architect has an experience of more than 37 years and runs a generational architecture bureau with a legacy of 148 years, go figure it out.

I know you may struggle to see the overkill in it.....there are smarter ideas to guarantee family privacy, you don't need to ensuite both rooms to achieve that.
I still maintain a 2 bedroom apartment does not need anything more than 2 toilets (family and visitors) and 1 bathroom.

Edited.

true2home:
I for one do not worry about what everyone is doing . If a tenant is too big for what i have to rent, they are way too big to be a renter; i always advise them to go build their own house . Most ROI on renter in " Big Area Codes" like Lekki are in the Mid Single digit like 4% -6%. You buy land for 10M conservatively, Build with 45M. Then rent for 2M...

I have a studio apartment that i used as experiment. The first unit cost me #1.8M; POP, Sweethome toilet, Marble slabs etc. The subsequent ones were without POP and the #45k Sweethome toilet. Guess what? the after units with less expensive fixtures commanded 40K per annum more than the first unit.

It good to build luxury homes, but let it be because you want it so, not because you think the market demands it. In a country like Nigeria with City with massive home shortage, 17M units shortage per year; what Nigerians need is a Clean, Safe and Affordable accomodation, not luxury Like i said above, any tenant that wants luxury, he or she should go build his or her own. Lobaton!!!

That say it all,.....SOME Nigerians dreams/demand are too wild to be regarded as common sense......The advance world standard we are tripping to emulate uses average quality materials for finishing in their buildings but with quality handwork, clean, safe, and above all affordable to majority of the society classes they have. Anyone is free to spend his money as he wishes but the basic necessities in a house or apartment is just more than enough.

BrabusNG:
Especially those ones that paste notice in the community they’re visiting.

www.pulse.ng/gist/visit-of-the-big-boys-armed-robbers-write-letter-to-residents-of-ogun-community/4hbbwyx.amp

Safe room to the rescue.....a secret safe room with basement will do the the trick.....they will visit but won't find you at home.

BrabusNG:
There are good Nigerians doing great stuffs.

I spent my weekend working on openable burglar proofs and bi-folding nets. It was a great explore as we try to bring the outdoor inside without security compromise.

Innovation begins with trial, error and readjusting. Nothing is impossible if the mind is put to purpose.

vickzie:
even if it's a 1 bedroom flat, I would pick the one that has 2 baths to one with single bath.

Choice!

vickzie:
I have observed that most visitors especially guys would rather hold their pee and wait till they get outside than pee in a shared bathroom. but with a visitors toilet, everyone is comfortable. I for one won't step into a bathroom in a lady's apartment if it's not a separate v.wc. unless na my babe sha. I've seen so many pros of v.wc but I'm yet to see one con of it. although I have seen some poorly placed v.wc, where the toilet is facing you directly when you are in the sitting room.

Visitors WC is necessary in my opinion, my point was a 2 bedroom apartment with 3 toilets and 2 bathroom is an overkill design or request, I know the client/owner is entitled to spend his money as he feel, I am only critical of the necessity.

Horlardorjah:
so an en-suite bedroom is an overkill or what exactly is your point here. what makes a good office space, ain't an en-suite room even better than one without a toilet?
seems u don't understand what your EXPERIENCED ARCHITECT meant: he simply means your design should take care of the future so it stays updated n for easy conversion to desired space in years to come. if he advised you not to have an en-suite room, it may be that you were complaining of your purse or budget so he decided to give u what he deemed is within your budget or finance. so u don't go around saying it's an Overkill to have such in other people's design or property

Seem you came in halfway into the discussion, I have no problem with ensuite masters bedroom (toilet/bathroom) because it something you will put to use for a very long time, my critical and concious point is that a 2 bedroom apartment ensuite with toilets and bath and with visitors toilet is an overkill design and waste of useful interior space.
My experience architect pointed out making all room ensuite is not necessary and resources wastage because I may not need them when the children moved out and conversion will cost extra resources and extreme makeover in case, that I don't need more than 2 toilets and one bathroom in any house to guarantee comfort.
It's not about affordability but necessity, functionality and usefulness.

BrabusNG:
I propose Nairaland Properties’ Housing Fair

An annual summit that provides an important platform for Nairaland real estate leaders/investors/actors to discuss most pertinent opportunities and issues in the Nigeria’s real estate market yearly.

It's very necessary, Nigeria's property development and businesses are growing fast, in building fairs you get to see simple, cheaper and creative architectural methods and interior decoration for homes. I don't know if trade fair still exist, property fair is just too big to merge with trade fair.
Rotating from region to region annually.

adanny01:
I still can't see the over kill.

I have seen tenants moving out of a 2 bedroom flat just because the could not manage with 1WC and bathroom.

In many of the houses with visitors toilet, this toilet ends up being the most used toilet especially because of its proximity to family living area.

I have seen tenants pay more just to have more toilets. Tenants pay more to have POP rather than PVC.

Is it that a person living in a 2 bedroom flat is not entitled to a comfortable home or what exactly?

So, I can't see your point please state it clearly.

I know you may not see the overkill.... it's only a critical, concious and focus person will see that.
Every apartment are designed to specifically target a group of people/family, so a 2 bedroom apartment with 1toilet and bathroom for a family of 7 person won't work well without patience unless he well to do to upgrade to a bigger one, but they may not need anything more than 1 bathroom and 2 toilets (family & visitors toilets), you don't use the bathroom(shower) much than toilet daily.

Having sweet wild dreams is any persons right though, but being complacent is entirely different from being comfortable. While your hard earned money can make you believe being inherently deserving of privilege or special treatment the question is is that REALLY necessary?

BrabusNG:
The most expensive part of any build are the kitchen, toilets and bath.

I did en-suite back in the days. I use my sense these days.

There are 2 toilets we’ve not really used in my house for almost a decade.

The configuration is 5 bed (4 ensuite) and 5 WC.
Maybe the extra features will be used some day but I’m not really sure when that gonna be. It was built when the kids were babies. In few years, they’d be in high school. In decade, they’ll be starting their own life.

Just think aloud, who does en-suite houses really benefit apart from a very large family.

You may not use them often, the cost of setting them up could have gone to something more useful.
Agreed, children (teenagers and little adults) deserve some privacy too but they are also notorious for being careless and thoughtless in usage and respect for properties, there is need as parent to monitor and point thing out in those regards, only through community bathroom/toilet(visitors toilet could serve as spare) that's possible, else that culture may be a habit.
Making all rooms ensuite is all about client wild dreams than convenience/privacy, for me 1 bathroom (with separate bathtub and shower) and 2 toilets is more than enough.
I think it's time Nigeria start organising building fairs. There are enough creative ideas for big family out there than wasting interior spaces.

Abolarin91:
Client choice is very important, before any changes architect/builder need to inform his client.

I gave a clear instruction, my build must go according to my plan on paper, a family who was overseeing the work thought I would like it without prior consultation. Well, they learnt a hard lesson and got burnt for taking me for granted, I don't bulllshhiit with someone making decisions of something I spent my hard earned money on.
If I need any changes I ALWAYS consult my architect the possibility and if need be he go to the site to inspect the situation.

bebe2:
am not happy with the 3WC in my plan, i think its an overkill. how can you be renting a 2 bedroom flat
for 300k and be looking for masters ensuite and separate toilet for visitor?

My thoughts too.....some call it convenience and trendy choice but I call it irrelevant and wastage of interior space.
My former builder sold that idea to the person overseeing my project and went ahead to alter my plan by making the rooms with ensuite toilets and bath without prior information or consent.....I was furious......first, I forced him to revert it at his cost and threw him out of my site. I am not a fan of that trend.

saydfact:
what exactly is wrong with that design? and why are you making it your wahala by trying to discredit it..

cc: mssiah - you have a nice design,.... kudos to the designer...

A client may a have a request but it's the duty of the architect to let the client know the usefulness, cost, maintenance, functionality and flexibility. An experienced architect once told me never design a bedroom or garage that you cannot convert to an office or a house you can not sell in the future.
3WC and 2 bathrooms in 2 bedroom is an overkill.

rotecch77:
I’m back with my popular user name, “rotecch77” anti spambot just released me.

You pay some bribe for your release? That thing worst pass SARS ooo.

kenpower:
A design brief is achieved base on client submission and expectation[/b] notting absolutely is wrong wit the design pls,,,,,If fact is a perfect tourch

Probably it could be the client choice to have 3 WC in a 2 bedroom apartment with 2 ensuite or maybe not, I still believe there should be a balance between architectural details and practicality, usefulness and functionality.
An apartment should be a community living not a private room or dormitory. I have been to a handful of Building Fair I am yet to see architecture/floor plan overkill like SOME architect do, it gives me the idea they don't utilised their expertise to advise the client.

EgunMogaji2:
Not a Pro but give good consideration to POP because of its purported anti burn properties. Good PVC has also been rumored to be not far off in price to well negotiated POP installation.

I will never use PVC. In fact I prefer to use "asbestos" instead of PVC where POP doesn't make sense.

Good luck on your project.

Asbestos is health hazard.

mrsteel:
I love this plan
Very portable!

Yeah! Portable and overdrawn!

mssiah:
Good morning all

Please I need an estimate. How much will it cost to do decking for the attached plan.

Wow! You mean this 2 bedroom apartment will have 3 water closet and 2 bathrooms, and the entrance thru the rooms? Come on, this is not convenience but overplan and overdraw in my opinion.....well, no be my wahalla sha!