₦airaland Forum

^^^guy, calm down... You really think believing a dead white guy is your god is not foolish? Then think again......

joel lala: Ok..am the olodo here, so please explain this brain process so that i wont be an olodo anymore.

some psychiatrists ascribe it to a mismatching in the brain that causes the brain to mistake the present for the past, the exact cause of this hasnt been pin pointed... research is ongoing on that....

just when i thought this was getting interesting...

striktlymi: That was meant to be sarcastic. The question still remain: What do you mean by "nothing"?

vacuum, empty. Note that if you claim there was never something like empty, you are automatically accepting something pre-existed your god!

striktlymi: You still do not get it. Existence is part of what God is. Man on the other hand cannot exist without existence. I am not sure if you understand this but man cannot cause anything to just exist because it's not part of his nature.

if only you will expatiate on this, then i will understand, your highness...

striktlymi: The best man can do is use what has been given or created already. For example, when we say man is capable of creating ideas, what we are saying in effect is that man can use the brain that has been given already to bring about what we call ideas.

The only one who can truly create or better still: cause stuff into existence, is the one who has existence as part of its nature. It is God's nature to exist.

is this suppose to be a rational argument for how a complex god can exist? oh pls, this only appeals to emotions, nothing logical here....

striktlymi: Now you are getting somethings, though not everything. Let's review some concepts that arose from your comment above:

1) Energy is eternal, i.e it has no beginning and will have no end.

2) Energy cannot be destroyed. In other words, nothing can destroy or create energy. Simply put: Energy is Omnipotent.

3) Energy is everywhere i.e it is Omniscience.

4) Etc.

The point where we may disagree is that I believe this Energy is Consciousness aka God while you believe it is not.

not until you tell me how energy can arrange itself into a conscious personal god, capable of creating a universe.

striktlymi: Nah!

All depends on what you call life. Is a car alive?

in a sense, yes. but in the conventional no. if life is building up and breaking down at the chemical level, and if this is what cars also do to function, then, we can say they dont think because they are not as complex as us.

but then, to move on, nope, they aint alive.

and whats your point here?

striktlymi: God created Lucifer. He did not create evil.

ok, so there are something god didnt create right? what about the lying spirit in the mouth of the prophets, sent to a king in the old testament, who created that?

striktlymi: Nah!

It shows love.

i killed my self, to pay myself a debt, what a great love..... rubbish!!!

striktlymi: Funny how you believe something that lacks consciousness created consciousness and you still hold the view that this unconscious thing is rational? Can rationality come from irrationality?

calm down with the excitement.... i never said that which you claim.... i said a god who killed himself to pay himself a debt of others is too irrational to create the universe...read, understand, then reply..

striktlymi: Can Energy be created? Show me one item that lacks energy and I will show you one thing that was not created or made.

no.

does your god have energy or is he energy?

joel lala: Deja vu is a natural phenomenon that is actually all about the past and if it is coincidence, that means that approximately two-thirds of the world's population that have had déjà vu experiences all experienced a coincidential action right?

Olodo, its your claim of predicting the future that I call conincidence... Deja vu is a brain process

OLAADEGBU: We all know what happens to those who dare the law of gravity, most don't live to tell the story. At least you can't say that you don't believe in death, do you?

oh pls, are you now saying gravity to is conscious, conscious enough to punish disbelief?

InesQor: @ooman

Nope. What you need to do in a logical argument is that when you make a claim like 'there is no such thing as X" and/or "X is too complex to exist", you NEED to follow up with logical reasons why X cannot exist and why it is too complex to exist.

The burden of proof is on you in this case because you are the one making the claim. If you just drop those statements then you have committed logical fallacies.

oh, i think i did that already, i remember saying god is too complex to just pop into existence from nothing and make everything from nothing multiple times here.....

here it is again

ooman:
that was supposed to be sarcastic, there can be no such thing as a god. its too complex to just exist.

joel lala: Yes..i think i have gone through this link before, but it doesnt tell me why man has been evolving but apes, monkeys, baboons etc whom man is suppose to evolve from have suddenly stopped evolving till date..Why do we still see apes in the non- evolving state or did evolution decide to skip them?

ah, you need some education... nothing stops evolving, everything continue to evolve, some more than the others, based on the level of climatic change.

and we didnt evolve from monkeys and baboons, we are all modern apes, we are family genetically.

we are the apes, and we continue to evolve, there is nothing like 'non-evolving'. Change is constant in nature......

joel lala: Bros deja vu is not illusion..I have also experienced it long ago and at a point in time i was able to predict what might happen next and it happened exactly..so how do you explain that..

inference, deduction and coincidence. Besides, deja vu is not predicting the future, its feeling like the past is the present..... are you confused here?

joel lala: Ok..so when a human dies he is gone forever..How come some humans experience what we call de ja vu in their present day life?

yep, gone forever. Deja vu is illusory, even i experience it... and am an atheist...

InesQor: What you did there is not admissible in a logical argument:
"There can be no such thing as X" is the fallacy of appeal to ignorance.
"X is too complex to exist" is the fallacy of argument from personal incredulity.

Those are two standard logical fallacies, shey you'll google them?

ok.

what you need to do in a logical argument is to tell us how such thing as X can exist, rather than just make claims without basis

joel lala: Evolution from what? Kindly expanciate..also where did the first being(man) of evolution come from(definately it cant come out of thin air)

nothing like the first man, evolution is a continuous process and man is its present stage in the hominid lineage. read more here

http://humanorigins.si.edu/resources/intro-human-evolution

it answers every question you may have...

truthislight: Ability to comprehend beyond your 'finite mind' bounded by time, that comprehension leads to humility due to reality that will erase your infinite regress and then you can see the big picture.

and what is the bigger picture?

InesQor: Based on classifications in the OP and my daily experiences I think I'm still in the second level of sleep. I have about no care for objects and trivial issues of life, and I thrive on art, science and ideas. But sometimes this gets the better of me in my walk of Love, as I can tend to be harsh towards those who just can't seem to see life beyond objects.

being a seeker means having an open mind, not having it already filled up with ancient ideas. free your mind and you will find your way soon....into atheism....

joel lala: Ok since there is no soul and spirit, explain how human beings originated and what happens to them when they die.

you are a product of evolution, and man continue to evolve...

InesQor: - Fallacy of appeal to ignorance
- Fallacy of argument from personal incredulity.

if only you care to enlighten me..

joel lala: @Ooman, permit me to ask you a question.

When human beings die, what happens to them(soul, spirit etc)?

There is nothing like a soul or spirit. When a human dies, it does like other animals. It is dead and done with, it lives no more, no afterlife.

truthislight: Hehehe. Funny chap !

You need to think deeper.
Straighten your ways/morals.
Build a conscience.

Then we shall see.

what shall we see?

so dream is now evidence? smh

InesQor: Agnostics are at the same point of realization though.

yep, they are doubting atheists!

InesQor: Nice one

@jayriginal & Uyi Iredia
Sometimes I say I toyed with atheism briefly but sometimes I wonder if that's really true because in retrospect it seems what really happened was that my level of doubt got intensely strong. I am recently convinced that the farthest extents I've ever been are Christian (new creation) fundie to simply Theist to Agnostic. I'm currently somewhere between the first 2 but much closer to Theist, almost overlapping it I'd say.

This is one question I ponder on, that makes me accept such classifications as Dawkin's scale: When exactly do you say someone "becomes" Atheist? What if his/her doubt only became so strong, stronger than was ever experienced?

when you realize gods does not have to exist for nature to be here...

truthislight: You have not shown why those accomplished scientist are said to be "deluded" by you ?

thats simple, they believe in a god...

jayriginal: Err, Uyi, you sound less like someone seeking than someone confused (no offence intended).

Point of order, if someone sticks to his guns it doesnt mean the person is close minded. A person is close minded if he sticks to his position even when he has been shown the weakness of that position. Particularly so, if he rejects a contrary position outright without due consideration.

I see no reason why you should jump from islam to paganism to flower worship etc. If you are looking for God, look within.

Your confusion (as I call it) has led to a really wild fluctuation and its hard to take you very seriously. One minute you are insulting people over evolution, the next you are accepting it. One minute you are a christian, then you are a deist then an atheist. Its dizzying. I hope next you are not going to do another "I have renounced atheism thread".

By your arguments before now and your declaring yourself atheist, I should be correct when I say that you currently believe there is no God. Im sure this is not true though (even if you say it is). Anyway moving on . . .

Seeking doesnt necessarily mean trying everything on the menu. Doing that can cause a lot of sh1t.

Again, none of this is meant to insult and I hope you dont take it that way.

@bold: because god is really no where, but only your imaginations can create such, so you look within...

macof: If u get to learn wat other religions say about God, u might find answers to ur questions

care to expatiate about this god of yours?

Uyi Iredia: I don't accept it. BTW, feel free to check past posts I made whilst deist.

just tell me in one statement, how do you explain the existence of such an ultimate mover, and who/what moves him/it/her?

Uyi Iredia: Yes. But as a posture whilst remaining deist.

as a deist, how do you suppose your presupposed universe starter got started himself? Or do you accept the theist position that he can just exist and from what?

coolkris: the war between good and evil continues..but our God will surely win

your god is the evil here, and evil cannot win.

Pastor Olu T: I laugh at ur ignorance though never mocking u for I know what lays ahead so I pray for ur soul. U call ur life being openly threatened delusion?

The world is being run by some ppl, even Nigeria, so my friend reality would soon done on U.s.

Accept Jesus as ur Lord n savior before its too late!

accept jesus or go to hell right? that's it, your jesus is the menace here. he is the person that must be terminated.

InesQor: @ooman

So you believe the great God exists?

I talk to various people in different ways. When I talk to atheists I try to draw comparisons from a domain or context that they are familiar with, and accept. No use arguing using examples outside a domain or context that they fundamentally accept. That's a Babel (pun intended).

Well I said that cos Logicboy03 called NativeBoy a psychopath for saying someone else was to shoulder someone's crimes. I was pointing out that it's not as far-fetched an idea as he makes it sound.

that was supposed to be sarcastic, there can be no such thing as a god. its too complex to just exist.

truthislight: Some times i have a lot to say, but find my self not saying it, reason being because of that statement above > "the christian God".

What really is "the christian God" ?
What is it ? Trinity ?

'Trinity'.

Aka 'God came to die'.

How does one defend such really baffles me. Smh.

No wander!

*We know the culprit/reasons for the attacks*

what's so hard to understand in that, the xtian god is yahweh. period

coolkris: was ur father or grand father forced into Christianity. .why are u so bothered..are u now feeling like a messiah sent by God to free people from the message of jesus...the message of jesus has no wrong in it..whearas, it calls us to a life of holiness, whearas islamists are bombing steady. .and atheist s are killing serially cos they feel they wont be judged. .wat is ur fight for?

how am i supposed to understand this?

Emusan: Ooman Ooman where are thou?

Your testimony of such is on the way.......just remember me in your prayer when it fully comes.

Why callest thou onto me?

I am always here, and i look forward to the day god will be totally rid off the human community!